Me if i fixed my tie. Every once in a while, a judge, keep it this way. Who was quite senior, would call me and say, we are going for lunch. All right. David i dont consider myself a it was the biggest liquor journalist. Distributor in the d. C. Area. [laughter] jus. Ginsberg before we went to nobody else would consider myself a journalist. His warehouse, we would stop at i began to take on the life of being an interviewer even though the Supreme Court and pick up i have the day job of running a private equity firm. How do you define leadership . What is it that makes somebody Justice Brennan and justice marshall. Tick . I knew Justice Scalia from our when you went to cornell, your court of appeals days. Grades were good. I knew Justice Clarence thomas, you applied to law school at harvard. You got into Harvard Law School. Who was also on the d. C. Was the class half women and half men . Circuit. [laughter] sandra was as close as i came to Justice Ginsburg in those having a big sister. Ancient days, i went to law school between 1956 and 1959. I did have a big sister, but she in my entering class at harvard died in my infancy, so i never knew her. Law school, there were over 500 of us. Justice oconnor was the most welcoming. Nine of us were women. She gave me some very good advice. Ronnies class, he not only when i was a new was a year ahead of me. Justice, but during my first cancer battle. There were five women. Today, Harvard Law School, it is because Justice Oconnor had about 50 women. [applause] Breast Cancer and she was on the david in your Harvard Law School class, you did extremely well and got onto the harvard bench nine days after her cancer surgeries. Law review and you were near the david wow. Jus. Ginsberg she said, ruth, you have your chemotherapy on top of your class, maybe first friday, that way you will get or tied for first in your class. When your husband needed to move to new york, you wanted to transfer to Columbia Law School and the dean of the Harvard Law School did not think that was over it during the weekend, so such a great idea if you wanted you can be back. [laughter] to be a harvard graduate. David now, the best way to win is that correct . Justice ginsburg yes. A case if you are arguing one before the Supreme Court is to he said i had to spend my third year at harvard. The reason i didnt was marty write a great brief, to write a was diagnosed with a testicular be a great oral advocate. Tumor in his third year of law does the oral argument make a school. Difference or the brief or what is the best way to win a case in the Supreme Court . For somebody who might want to argue a case. [laughter] those were early days for cancer jus. Ginsburg to have a case cure. There was no such thing as that is strong on the merits. Chemotherapy, there was only massive radiation. An oral argument at the court is not a debate. We did not know whether he would i would say of the two survive. Components, the brief is by far the most important. I did not want to be a single it is what we start with and mom. What we end up with when we go back to chambers. Monthsy daughter, was 14 oral argument is fleeting. David if somebody wants to be a Supreme Court clerk, do you when wei started law send in a letter applying or how does that work . [laughter] school. We wanted to Stay Together as a jus. Ginsberg we get hundreds family. And hundreds of applications. Marty had a good job with a firm in new york. I asked the dean, i thought it would be an easy answer if i could complete my education at columbia and have a harvard degree. Absolutely not. You must spend your third year here. I had the perfect rebuttal. There was a cornell classmate of mine who had had her first year of law school at penn. She transferred into our second year class. I said to the dean, she will have her second and third year and will earn a harvard degree, but i think it is universally understood that the first year of law school is by far the most important. She has years two and three. I have years one and two. It should make no difference. But i was told a rule is a rule. David you went to Columbia Law School and your degree is from columbia. You did extremely well in the review there as well. From the harvard law review and the columbia law review, you were flooded with job offers from major law firms . [laughter] Justice Ginsburg there wasnt a david the court meets from single firm in the entire city of new york that would take a october until june, more or less. What do the justices do in july chance on me. And august . I have said i had three strikes against me. Do they sit around reading i was jewish. The wall street firms were just beginning to welcome jews. Briefs or do they do other things . Then, i was a woman. Jus. Ginsberg one thing that follows us throughout the world but the absolute killer i was throughout the year is the death a mother. My daughter was four years old when i graduated from law penalty business, which the school. Court treats like a firing squad. Employers who might take a very often, when an execution chance on a woman were not going date is set, there is an 11thhour application for a prepared to take a chance on a stay. Mother. David one of your law no one justice is responsible professors got you a judgeship for the final vote. A clerkship with judge paul we all are pulled wherever we are in the world. Mainieri. In addition, most of us take was that easy to do because you are a mother . Some time off to teach. Justice ginsburg he had no david so, today, when you are qualms about a woman. He had had a woman as a law thinking about the court, what clerk before. Is it that gives you the greatest hope for the future of the court and the way it works . He was concerned. The Southern District of new jus. Ginsberg i think that all york was a busy court. Sometimes, he would need a law clerk aide even on a sunday. Of us revere the institution in which we work and we want to i found out about this years later. I did not know at the time. Leave it in as good shape as we found it. David if somebody wants to be a Supreme Court clerk, each judge,fessor said to the justice gets four clerks, do you give her a chance and if she just send in a letter applying doesnt work out, there is a or how does that work . [laughter] jus. Ginsberg we get hundreds class who isthe and hundreds of applications. Going to a downtown firm. He will jump in and take over. My best source for law clerks that was the carrot. It was also a stick. Are other judges, other federal judges. This tick was if you dont give her a chance, i will never law professors tend to write recommend another columbia glowing letters of recommendation. Student to you. That is how it was for women of my vintage. Everyone is the best and the getting the first job was brightest student that ever powerfully hard. David after your clerkship, you graduated from this law school. Got a position as a law [laughter] professor at rutgers. Jus. Ginsberg but, my jus. Ginsberg yes. Colleagues in other federal courts will tell me the straight i was working for the columbia story. Very often, i will get a call project on international from another federal judge procedure. Saying, i have a clerk this year who i think would be just right for you. David how did you get connected to the aclu and your those are my best trailblazing efforts in gender discrimination and gender law . Recommendations. Jus. Ginsberg it came about david we have a few questions from people attending today. First from my students at if you could change one thing about the constitution, what would it be and why . Rutgers who wanted a course on [laughter] women and the law. David i guess you probably, if i went to the library and inside you were a founding father, founding mother [laughter] of a month, i read every federal david what might you have put decision ever written about in the constitution that did not quite get in there . Jus. Ginsberg i would add an genderbased distinctions in the equal rights amendment. [applause] law. At the same time, new complaints were coming into the new jersey jus. Ginsberg i explain it this affiliate of the aclu, way. Complaints of the kind the aclu had not seen before. When i take out my pocket constitution to show my granddaughters, i can show them one group of complainers were Public School teachers, who were the First Amendment that guarantees freedom of speech and of the press. But i cant point to anything put on Maternity Leave when the pregnancy began to show because that says women and men are the School Districts worried, we persons of equal citizenship dont want the little children stature. To think their teacher swallowed a watermelon. Every constitution in the world [laughter] written since the year 1950 has these women were the equivalent of that the leave was unpaid and statement men and women are persons equal in stature before there was no guaranteed right to the law. Return. They began to complain, so it was the two things coming i would like my greatgrandchild together. The students wanting to learn to have a constitution that includes that statement, that this is a fundamental premise of our society, just the way about womens status under the freedom of thought and law and these new complaints coming to the aclu. Expression. David what gives you the most hope for the future . For me, it was a tremendous stroke of good fortune. Jus. Ginsberg my granddaughters. [applause] because up until the start of the 1970s, it simply wasnt jus. Ginsberg im very proud of possible to move courts in the my eldest granddaughter, who is a lawyer. Cares a great deal about our direction of recognizing women country. As people of equal citizenship stature. David when president clinton and about its highest values. Became president , you were obviously somebody being she and other young people like considered and president clinton said, well, women dont want her. Jus. Ginsberg i had written a her, i think, will help us get back on track. [applause] david ok. Comment on roe v. Wade and it what do you think is the biggest threat to our democracy . [laughter] was not 100 applauding that decision. Jus. Ginsberg a public that doesnt care about preserving the rights we have. You know that great speech on liberty . He says if the fire dies in the hearts of people, there is no constitution and no judge that can restore it. My faith is in the spirit of liberty. David when you go to a restaurant these days, can you actually have dinner without a selfie request or people coming up for autographs . Is it possible for you to do that anymore . Jus. Ginsberg it is amazing. Im 86 and a half years old and Everyone Wants to take a picture with me. [laughter] [applause] david Justice Ginsburg, i want to thank you very much for a very interesting conversation. [applause] david thank you for your service to our country over 39 years. [applause] david you won a number of cases for the aclu on gender discrimination and became quite well known. You are asked to go on to the u. S. Court of appeals district of columbia by president carter. Were you surprised to get that appointment . You want to be a judge or were you wanting to be a professor . Jus. Ginsberg president carter deserves enormous credit for what the federal bench looks like today. When he became president , he noticed that the federal judges all looked like him, they were all white and all male. Carter appreciated that that is not how the great United States look. So, he was determined to put women and members of minority groups on the federal courts in numbers, not as one at a time curiosity. I think he appointed over 25 women to District Court judgeships and 11 women to courts of appeals, and i was i think the last of them. David you served 13 years on the court of appeals, district of columbia. After 13 years, did you think you had a chance to be on the Supreme Court or did you think this was something that might never happen . Jus. Ginsberg no one thinks, my aim in life is to be a Supreme Court justice, it just is not realistic. There are only nine of us. Luck has a lot to do with who are the particular nine at a particular time. So, growing up, i never had an idea of being any kind of judge. As i said, women were barely there on the bench. When carter became president , there was only one woman on a federal court of appeals. Shirley hostetler on the ninth circuit. He made her the first ever secretary of education. Then, there were none again. Carter changed that and no president ever went back. Reagan did not want to be outdone by carter. He was determined to put the scarlet i am scarlet fu. First woman on the u. S. Supreme this is etf iq, where we focus court. On the access, risk and rewards he made a nationwide search and came up with a spectacular offered by Exchange Traded funds. In Justice Sandra day oconnor. David when president clinton became president , you were somebody being considered and then president clinton talked to scarlet caution ahead. Somebody pushing for your investors may be signaling a lack of faith in the stock market. Appointment, Daniel Patrick they are pouring money into low volatility funds. Moynihan, and president clinton it isshows us and said, women dont want her. How could that have been the case when you were the leading lawyer in gender discrimination . Why would women have not wanted possible to bust a trend towards lowcost passive trends with the bond etf. Betting on brexit or not. You or some women not want you there is an etf or that and we show on the Supreme Court . Jus. Ginsberg just some women. Most women were overwhelmingly supportive of my nomination. But, i had written a comment on roe v. Wade and it was not 100 applauding that decision. What i said was the court has an easy target because the texas law was the most extreme in the nation. Abortion could be had only if necessary to save the womans life. It does not matter that her health would be ruined, that she was the victim of rape or incest. I thought roe v. Wade was an easy case and the Supreme Court could have held that most extreme law unconstitutional and put down its pen. Instead, the court wrote an opinion that made every abortion restriction in the country illegal in one fell swoop. And, that was not the way that the court ordinarily operated. It waits until the next case and the next case. Anyway, some women felt i should have been 100 in favor of roe v. Wade. M