Charlie leslie odom junior is here. What brought you to hamilton . I was invited into hamilton. Sometimes you find the best jobs in this business, you did not audition for, you have no idea how you got there. I asked tommy last week. I have this superstition if i get a straight offer, i do not want to ask how it came about. I am afraid they might realize, why did we asked this guy . I got invited two years ago to do a reading of the show. I had seen it at faster. About half anm do hour of the show. I had seen them do it at vassar. I had seen maybe 45 minutes and was blown away. When i was invited to do the reading, i prepared like id never had before. I came in and new all my music. And knew all my music. I knew what they were working on. It had powerful potential. I knew how it affected me. Lynn is only one year older than i am, this is our music. I recognize the rhythms and the syncopation, and the pulse of the piece. Charlie people wondered when hiphop would come to broadway, because rock had come to broadway. So influential with that as well, the heights being a watershed moment for hiphop music and latin american actors. I listened to the heights, i have chills thinking about it. I told them that there is something from the first moments of that album [singing] the need to communicate is something that has always moved me greatly. I saw a show when i was a teenager called, death poetry jam. Pen. E is blood in the they put something on the paper and there is an urgency and a fire in their belly to get it. It came full circle when i was listening to a rehearsal, listening back and learning my part. I said, we sound like that. I can hear that need and what we are doing. Charlie i hear all of the desire, energy, preparation, to do justice to the text that you are given. How much of it was important to know aaron burr . You not only play a character. You play the narrator. You were there at every moment. Role, butas a larger burr is also the continuity. Leslie one of my favorite gifts sometimes fanse give us books of articles they , find on ebay. Steve and Rhonda Hawthorne have given me more than anybody. They come by with these articles they have ordered these books , that they have ordered. Those have helped me a lot because i would not call myself a historian by any means. Lynn has read enough about all of the events that he has been able to come up with his own opinion on the events. I think that is what makes the historian. You read one book and you have one opinion. I have read enough on burr now to come up with my own theories. Charlie there are other opinions of ehrenberg, of aaron burr, some good, some bad. Leslie at the end of the day, i i have to play with what lynn wrote. Charlie you have to play into what you have experienced. Leslie and what i believe as far as what my job is as a performer. That is another one of those things that this has intersected. It has come at the point that i am ready there is a certain amount of vulnerability that the show requires that i was not ready to embrace at any other moment in my life. There is a certain amount of honesty that if i am doing my job right, i bring to the stage every night. That is that comes up time. Charlie earlier we talked to the writer, composer, and star of hamilton, and also with the director, thomas cale. Here is a look at that conversation. You sit in a room for six years making something, and you have the dream version of how the show will be received. We are experiencing that. I started writing this in 2008 while i was still in my show, in the heights. I was on my vacation when i picked up rons book at borders charlie i will take this one. Lin i knew he died in a dual, so i knew it would have a banging ending. The dickensian nature of hamiltons life charlie explain that. Lin hamilton was born out of wedlock possibly. His father split by the time he was 10 years old. His mother died in bed with him a few short years later. His brother was an apprentice to a blacksmith, so he was by himself. He was sent to live with a cousin after his mothers death, and then the cousin killed himself. Then he got put in charge of a trading charter. He was a clerk for a Trading Company that traded rum and slaves. He wrote his way off of the island. Hade was a hurricane that ravaged st. Croix, and he wrote a home about it, describing the carnage saying he saw fights , that would strike astonishment into angels. People took up a fund to get him an education in new york. Charlie here we have a character, a great american. We know there is drama. He may have not fired his gun in the dual. Here we have that story. You have translated it into so much more. Tell me about the ideas you want to pour into this to make it a new look at the founding fathers, the american experience, and a different way of presenting it that would appeal to young people, because you have young actors. You speak to what we were conscious of. How do we eliminate distance between our story and now. We knew that this is a country that was founded and created by immigrants. Somebody in all of our lines stepped off of a boat. They put their foot down on this soil and went to work. As we started thinking about taking the inspiration from rons book, we thought here are a lot of events but we have to , tell a story. We had all of the events laid out, we made a book and compared timelines. You have those things to build around. It came apparent so early on as we were designing how the show could function, that this idea of doubling characters for instance, took off. The character who played lafayette they have this relationship to france. One antagonistic and one supportive. How can we make the audience feel like who they are and what they understand is actually not so different from what the people struggled with. Charlie hiphop seems like a genius stroke now, but that is what you knew. I checked a versions of the book and i felt like someone had done a hiphop version. This was someone who wrote his way out of circumstances. That is the hiphop narrative from the south bronx in the 1970s until today. I googled hamiltonhiphop musical, it was not there. That was the first thing that jumped out at me. This is a fundamental hiphop story. Charlie the lyrics go, i am just like my country, young, scrappy, and hungry, i am not throwing away my shot. Wrapping ose is rapping. I hope we were rolling on that. Were always rolling on everything. You performed that at the white house. I performed the opening number. Charlie before we see that, is that what the president responded to when he said geithner should see this . I told the audience this was the first time performing this in public. They asked me to perform something from in the heights. They allowed me to close out the show with that. His response was, somebody has to get geithner in here. Charlie did he think of him as hamilton . Lin he had a quote at that time because the economic crisis had just blown up. He said geithner had the hardest job as treasury secretary since Alexander Hamilton. I think that was his quote on has ahead of him. This was early in obamas administration. They were just figuring out how to do this. How to get us out of the whole. How to get us out of the hole. He also performed it from burrs point of you. They got a laugh. Charlie where was that idea come from . Aaron burrs perspective . I look at musical history, we have a great tradition of Andrew Lloyd Webber of the antagonist in the story. That was immediately where i went. That set up the difficult task of figuring out who it aaron burr is. Who is, as we say in the show is , known as the villain. Charlie but you think more of him. I do. Gore wrote a historical fiction novel. Is aaron burr is a lot craftier than mine, but one of the things i learned about burr is he is an early feminist. He was very close with his wife and daughter. His daughter received an education better than any man. He was on the society with Alexander Hamilton for the abolition of slaves. There are redeeming characteristics to this guy. I had to find my way in because every biography is defensive or vilifies him. Charlie they were different in the following way, would you know better than everybody. On one hand aaron burr was cautious, careful, laidback. Alexander hamilton wanted to charge forward. At every moment. Yes. Hamilton left behind 27 volumes of written work. Aaron burr left behind less than two. The tragedy of the show is, at the moment when burr is reckless and lets go, and hamilton is cautious and throws away his shot, one kills the other. That is how they are remembered forever. Lets make a story about two people who were very dear and complex friends, and one of them kills his friend. They were soldiers, lawyers, statesmen together. You thought about . Ing aaron burr because he gets all of the best songs. Now you watch the show and cannot imagine me playing him. He gets these wonderful moments, one of my favorite being where he talks about not being in power and seeing hamilton trade away the capital. He says how am i not in this , room . Charlie take a look at this, this is you in the white house in 2009. Son, grow up to be a hero and a scholar. The 10 founding father without a father got a lot farther by working a lot harder, by being a lot smarter, by being a selfstarter by 14 they placed him in charge of the trade and charter he was carted away he is expected to be a part of the brother then a hurricane came and devastation reigned the future dripped down the drain he wrote this for free he wrote this first refrain, a testament to his brain word got around and they said this kid is insane lets send him to the mainland, get your education the world will know your name what is your name . Alexander hamilton his name is Alexander Hamilton there are a million things he has not done, just you wait when he was 10, his father split alex and his mother were bedridden alex got better but his mother he moved in with his cousin, the cousin committed suicide alex started reading and retreating what is there left to do . He would have been destitute without a sense of restitution he started working, clerking for his late mothers landlord he got his hands on every book he could he now stands on the bow of the ship headed for a new land in new york you can be a new man the ship is in the harbor, can you spot him . Another immigrant coming up the bottom me . Fulfool that shot him charlie unbelievable. It is almost like if they did not have hiphop that had to be created for this. Thank you. That means a lot. The score is both a love letter to hiphop and musical theater. Youre right. It is this heightened language. We are learned early on, energy went out. We had this ball that we throw in the air so high at the top we have to keep it at that level. There are times when we take musical breaks and slow it down and and speed it up again, this heightened language seem to be the only way to convey the worldview. Charlie did you once say that hamilton reminded you of tupac . Yeah. In that he embodies so many contradictions. He is both thoughtful and boisterous, brilliant and selfdestructive. He would get into fights that in retrospect, why are you fighting with that guy . That is what i think when i think about tupacs life. That is what is so brilliant. I think hamilton carries that many contradictions with him. Charlie Eugene Oneill is one of the greatest playwrights of the 20th century. He is the only american founder to have won the nobel prize for literature. He has been called the father of american theater, paving the way for arthur miller. The iceman cometh is one of his most powerful plays. Joining me now, two tony winning actors, nathan lanes and brian dennehy, i am pleased to have them at the table. Welcome. Nathan thank you. Charlie there is a story i read, you saw this production was take place, and you said this is right for me. You notified the director . Nathan yes, it started with ken branagh and a bar. He said you have to do these great parts. Charlie ive never thought of that. Nathan he said if you do, you will learn a great deal and it will be lifechanging, it does not matter what anyone says. I read an interview 10 years later with brian and bob falls, and they were discussing potentially revisiting the iceman. They had done it in 1990 together. Is there an oneill character that brian has not played . Nathan i think he did. When i heard them discussing brian taking on the role of larry, i wrote an email to bob falls, even though i did not know him that well, saying i would love to play hickey. Here is my reasoning, and fortunately he responded , positively. We got together and discussed how we could do it. Charlie how do you see him . Nathan when i read the play as a kid, i got a collection of Eugene Oneill plays, i read the iceman cometh, i was drawn to the character of hickey. Because of the description that only a writes that sounded a little like me. He describes him as short and rolypoly with a button nose and a twinkle in his eye. He always writes these long descriptions of characters, rather too specific for everyone to live up to. What he created i thought and , what i was bringing up to bob in my email was it is defined by Jason Robards. He was the gold standard. In 1956, when they did the revival offbroadway, they defined to that character is. Than saymuch darker the original production in 1946. Mischievoust this malevolence and otherworldly quality to it. I was saying to bob, wouldnt it be interesting, taking what oneill has said about him, the notion is he loves these guys. Just as he ultimately says he killed his wife and said it was heact of mercy out of love, has come to help them, change their lives, and bring them peace. Unfortunately he feels the only way to do that is for them to kill their illusions, their pipedreams as they are so often called. I thought, it has to come out of that. It has to come out of love. Not that he is trying to destroy them, but he is trying to help them. In a way that is more disturbing. And the fact that it is a joyous thing when he arrives. It is so offputting that this person they love is driving them to do this thing. For him he is in a kind of , semidelusional state. He feels this last act that does i dont think bring him absolution, but it is a way to prove to them and himself that what he did was right. Ultimately his pipe dream is , that he did this out of love. Charlie he is doing it for them. Is this a different hickey . Brian oh, yeah. Every great role its interesting, when i started working all i knew was Jason Robards along with everyone else. When we started rehearsal along time ago, almost 30 years ago, i said i will just steal Jason Robards character. It was not so easy to do. Finally i realized after a few , weeks of coming up with bad Jason Robardss interpretations, i said i cannot do this. I came up with the happiest guy in the world. This sunny salesman of death. Big smiles all of the time, big hearty laugh, slowly it becomes obvious that this guy is selling something that is not quite as advertised. Charlie is he selling it out of love . Brian sure. He there is an interesting discussion that goes on constantly with people like ourselves who deal with this play and these characters just , how crazy is he . Is he crazy enough to know exactly what he is doing, in terms of embracing his craziness . Or is he not crazy . He sort of compartmentalizes all of these things. He knows he has to turn themselves in. He knows hes going to have to call the police. He knows that what he did was wrong, technically. Shooting your wife in the back of the head, that is technically wrong. He knows he must be punished, ultimately that is what he really wants. He wants to be punished. That is what he always wanted from his wife, but she wouldnt. She kept forgiving him. It is this unhealthy codependent relationship, but he does love her. That is one theme, a man cannot. Ive without his illusions another theme, how does love and hate coexist . Brian the only way he can stop her from forgiving him is to make sure she is dead. Otherwise she would forgive him. Poll the trigger. I forgive you. Nathan it is an unraveling. In the fourth act when he famously recounts in order to prove to the group that he was right he recounts his life story. Leading up to the night of the murder, as he is going along, he was not planning on telling the story, but then he has to. He is driven to do it. To prove to them. These revelations start happening. It is like a therapy session. Someone says, tell me your life story. And you start, you start to talk about things you did not expect to talk about. It takes you someplace else. And you think, maybe i was wrong about this or that. As he slowly starts to unravel as he is revealing more and more about his own self loathing and the shame about what he did , to her. I think in a way, he finally convinced himself that was the answer. It is like a story you would read in the new york post, and you would say, you believe this happened . And yet it did. Because we are human. Charlie has doing this done all of the things that ken branagh said it would do . Nathan without a doubt. It was prophetic. Charlie that was 10 years ago. Nathan yes, it took a while to get me to chicago. I instigated the whole thing. Fortunately, it was a huge success in chicago, which led to this venuet at the beautiful harvey theater. , this Extraordinary Company of actors that charles discussed. It is a Remarkable Group of people. I think that is what is also making it so special. Yes it has lived up to those , expectations, and more. It has changed me as an actor. Who wouldnt . I know there are certain look, anyone in show business, there are certain preconceptions about them. We think we know them because of two or three things they did that were successful. Thats the person i know. I felt at my age, i needed i had more to offer, and wanted to challenge myself. I certainly wanted to do it with bob and brian. I knew that was the way to do it. Charlie here is what bob says about you. It is remarkable that brian sort of moved through these oneill roles. He knew he was the right age for slade. Brian he is referring to the british system. The brits turn start out you playing a young man part, then move up and play the same thing over and over again. I guess that is true. I feel comfortable with larry. Especially since he sits on his throughout the whole play. It is an interesting, complicated part. In many ways it is as complicated if not more so than , hickey. Although hickey has all the hard lifting to do, larry has some stuff to work out, especially with the kid. It is a similar situation, a parallel track, except in larrys case he finds out that the real generous thing to do is to make sure that this kid kills himself, which he will assist him in doing. Were talking about oneill here. Whats really interesting about the darkness of it it was , written about the same time as he was writing the family play. That was apparently an ordeal for him very difficult in , california, in that house. He wrote a friend in new york saying he had to stop working on the family play. He said he had to do something different, so i am writing something now that makes me laugh every day. Nathan i think he did love these guys. This was at an early point in his life in his early 20s and he attempted suicide. That and the golden swan which had a back room call the hellhole. These guys saved his life. The character, jimmy tomorrow, the scottish reporter who saved his life when he attempted suicide. I think that was always in the back of his head to write this play about this group of men. Most of the characters in the play are based on real people he knew and lived with, except for hickey. Did you know he was reading a lot of nietzsche . He was carrying around the birth of tragedy. Charlie while he was writing this . Yeah obviously influenced by , other plays, but nietzsche was a huge influence. Of this did you do all insight into oneill after you got the part . I was interested in the play. When i knew i was going to do it, the year before i started doing research about the play. Charlie they say that to do oneill is tough, like climbing mount everest. Do you think that is true . Of course it is. Charlie do you know why you get nice and some nice you dont . Do you mean why you get into the zone . Sometimes you see where the zone is and you get there more technically. That i do not know. It is not science. It is human chemicals that are pouring in. As much as you prepare, sometimes you are in a very specific moment, a quiet moment, and someone in the audience goes [cough] and that can throw you. But thats what live theater is about. It is about keeping a large group of people from coughing. As someone once said famously. It is about concentration and focus. And hopefully charlie did you prepare more for this than anything . Nathan without question. Charlie it was a leak . Yeah, it was a huge leap for anyone, even the most serious of actors. This is a degree of difficulty that is up there with brian the other thing along those lines, he is not the most adept writer of phrases. You will back up on himself on a phrase that does not necessarily come out as easily as it should. Mary mccarthy was famous for being a critic for the new the she was the 1940s. Curse of a lot of playwrights. She always said the same thing about oneill and others. They were not good writers, but they were great writers. Meaning that they were not particularly facile with the language or facile with the verbs or nouns in a way for example lets say updike was. Charlie they were great and understanding the human condition . Brian they insisted on going to the deepest, darkest parts. Arthur miller, who i was privileged to work with. We talked about the differences between a lot of these playwrights. He always said that oneill was the deepest diver. He was interested in the soul. Charlie thank you. Charlie bill neigh is here, the british tabloids have dubbed him the thinking mans person. Let me ask about relations. The first is Michael Gambon. What is your relationship with him . Bill he used to come up to me and Say Something so profane, i could not repeat it. It was encouraging. He would Say Something good, he would have seen me in a play and that would get me through the next 18 months. He is someone who i responded to. He was a modern actor, a contemporary actor. Charlie what does that mean . Bill it means he was not confined by the conventions of performing. He was radical in a way. Apart from the fact that he is touched by genius. I know that is the cliche of all cliches but i feel it to be , true. He thrilled me. When i first saw skylight, he created this role, i sword fenced all of the way home. It was exactly like that. I was thrilled. I was proud i did the same job as those people. Charlie the next person is david hare, what is it about the two of you . Bill my relationship started when i was 30. I did a Television Film with him. When i read the first thing he wrote, it rang in me in a way that i think with great writing or great art it often does. It was almost as if it were familiar to me. If you had given me time i would have gotten around to saying things like that. It chimed in terms of its attitude to the world with things i was already thinking. The elegance, the beauty and the with he writes the best jokes in town was something that was very familiar. It was the first time i had read a contemporary script that blew me away. David counted recently, 10 things we have done together now. I treasure that. Charlie stage, theater, film and television. Yeah. Charlie some actors tell me that they rarely accept a part if it scares them. Yeah. , when i was younger, i used to turn them down. I would invent some fancy reason then i got real. , i started to take jobs which had invented as apparently out of my range. Charlie what is an example of that . Bill skylight. I turned it down three times with my agent. It. W Michael Gambon play it was one of the greatest things i had seen. Traditionally i would turn it down with my agent and then would david would call me personally and i say, ok i am coming. Where do you want me . Charlie i thought youre going to Say Something like if david hare called, i would not take the call. That happens with skylight. I just thought you have to be , kidding. Charlie why would you do it again when you are to have done it . This is a question to which i do not absolutely know the answer but i will speculate. ,one is that i wanted to do a play, and there are not many i want to do. It is a great role. I wanted to do it originally in new york, i figured that justified it. It turned out i could not do that. I did it in london, which was wonderful. I loved the play with all of my heart. I think it is brilliant. It had not been produced majorly for a long time. David had kind of protected it. I love it. Charlie what do you love about it . Bill i love the fact that it is funny in a way that i find heartbreaking. I love the way that the broader issues are perfectly and invisibly integrated into the story of two people trying to come to terms with one another on a personal level. I love the fact that it is built like a bomb. It is like a clock. It is beautifully put together so that it unlocks something in the audience so they go away, hopefully, full of hope about personal relations and universal things. It is one of the rare occasions where those two things are beautifully integrated in some way. Charlie did you see it differently when it was done by michael . Bill yes, it would be different. It was a long time ago, so i cannot really remember. I cannot remember my first performance. I have a fond memory of the people involved and a lot of the offstage stuff. Im not reprising anything. I would imagine opera is like that. It is a brandnew production and stephen is a brilliant man, sensational director, has really delivered something beautiful. Everyone will take you that it is one of the most beautiful sets i have seen in my life. It is a beautiful package. Charlie how could you say no . Quite. Natasha klein, who lit it. It is bathed in intelligent light. Bathed in intelligent light. Bill Carey Mulligan was an assassin. Charlie roll tape. Take a look at this. You pridingr yourself and what you called your management skills, but you still treat people the man is a driver. Thats what he does. You know that drivers do not drive. The greater part of their lives are spent waiting. Frank is perfectly happy. He is a bloody well paid. He is sitting in a limousine and listening to kiss 100. And read the mens interest magazines. It has come down. Dont give me all that. Frank is better off in a warm mercedes. This is it. This is the problem. This ridiculous selfrighteousness. You always had it, i knew. I knew it wasnt going to get better, it is going to get worse. Nothing to do with my teaching. It has nothing to do with what i do. It is a way of respecting people. Frank is not people. Frank is a man who is doing a job. You have these stupid gestures, nothing to do with what people might want. People want to be respected, not looked down on as if they were disabled, as if they needed help. This was the whole trouble with business and you. You always looked down at the way we did things. Finally, that is why you left. Well i must say. , i never knew that was the reason. Im sorry. I never knew that was why i had to leave. I did not mean it badly. Badly . You did. I thought i left because your wife discovered i was sleeping with you for over six years. Yes, that as well. That played a part. Charlie Carey Mulligan is here, she is currently in skylight. Her costar said she is dead on, impeccable. Her performance led to a first tony nomination. David hare, this is his creation said about you, if i was starting and National Theater with an acting company like so Laurence Olivier had, i would start with her. That would be an adventure . Carey i would do it with david, if he asked. Charlie what is it about david . Kerry he is a wonderful writer and person. We have had the privilege of spending time with him. He was around during reversals and previews. Is brilliant. He is the writer on this project because we are working. He is so gifted at both. Charlie what i love about him is the curiosity he has for the themes. I think thats why they work together. Theyre both curious. Even in trivial conversations. Charlie he got stephen to do this . Kerry yes. It had not been done since bill did it. 15 years ago. Bill did it in london. 15 years later, we did it in london. Charlie was it instant yes . Carey yes. It is. I wanted to do a play. I did an offbroadway play in new york a couple of years ago called through the Looking Glass darkly, which was great. It was very dark and difficult. I was looking for the next play. I always wanted to work with stephen daltrey. I had never read skylight. I started reading it and i read 10 pages and hope the rest was good. Better, andgetting by the end of it i was in heaven. Charlie it was a character you love. Carey yes, it is truly great writing. That is the kind of writing you can do for 12 weeks in london, 12 weeks on broadway because you never tire of it. Charlie was it different . Carey yes, it is a british play. Charlie tell the story, what is the back story . Carey they met when my character was 18. She started working for him and his family in his restaurant chain. After a couple years, she went away the university and they started a relationship which lasted for six years, which his wife did not know about that. After six years, his wife discovered and left. So you are meeting them three years after that happened. Charlie she left . And then she died. And then he ends up at your doorstep . Carey yes, on a cold night. Charlie in a drafty apartment. Carey yes, she is leading that monastic lifestyle. Charlie has she found what she can engage . Carey yes, i think she found what she wants to do with her life. It is her reaction to the life that she had with them, privileged, in the chelsea world in london, and then she actually found what she wanted to do in life. And then he shows up and questions every single part of it laboriously for charlie what hours. Are the possibilities for her when he shows up . Carey initially there is a possibility of them being together. Charlie he spent the night. Carey there is the possibility of a reunion, but i think he has always held her at arms length. As the play develops, you see ultimately what it is that will keep them apart. Charlie why did she not want to reignite the relationship . Carey because ultimately i think he broke her trust. He broke it in such a significant way that she had her heart completely broken and would never be able to trust him again. Charlie she found out the fact that when he came, the fact that he had broken her trust last time, he still had that in him. That he was still capable of that. That there was no significant change in him. You see so much of their history and nostalgia from what they used to have, they still have it, but that also means he has not really changed. To a degree she has not either. There is a mix between lovely memories and being in the exact same place they used to be. Charlie there is a scene with you and bill cooking. Here it is. [laughter] what . No really, what are you thinking . Are you putting the chili and in first . I fry the chili so it infuses the oil. [laughter] aha. I see, i do not do that, i have been doing it the way i have been taught. [laughter] carey that noise brings the house down every night. Charlie this is when they are in the apartment. As it happens i get it at a cheap rent. I should hope. [laughter] you have lost all sense of reality. This place is not special. It is not especially horrible. This is how everyone lives. Please, let us be serious. It was not until i left your restaurant, it was not until i ed that chelsea you liked it. I do like it, yes i do not deny that, that it was not until i left your limousine, i left that warm bubble of money that i remembered most people live in a way that is different. You have no right to look down on that. You are right. Thank you. Of course. However, in one thing you are different. What is that . I have to say, you are different from everyone else in this part of town. You are the only person who has fought hard to get in. Everyone else has thought hard to get out. Charlie thank you. It was a pleasure. Rishaad here we are in beijing. Were watching this. China is trying to fix the yuan debateek stepping up the saying there is no basis for further depreciation. Chinois saying it has reasons to believe criminal activity will come to light and stock response. Alibaba wants to forget the tumbling share price and focus on the customer. Saying it wont the first time that the market falls. ,t forget to include that trending business. Jakarta running under way. Gains and losses in shanghai. Were looking at a pulse at what is going on with your money. David it is a little bit better but lets go back to china. The headline over the last half hour when it came to the currency and the money market was the reaction to the cut yesterday so raymond b, reminbi, where our way . The weakest level in several years. 640. Ix came in at about