Transcripts For BELARUSTV 20240703

We have already talked in several programs, but we will talk about the internal kitchen for the first time, but first , we will tell you about the main events of World Politics this week right now. The shortterm escalation of the conflict in nagornokarabakh ended with the victory of azerbaijan. For the First Time Since 1988, baku is regaining full sovereignty over this mountainous province populated by armenians. This was the result of the fact that the armenian leadership, led by Nikol Pashinyan , voluntarily forgave. With karabakh. In such conditions, the russian peacekeeper remains only to ensure the protection of the peaceful armenian population of the region. The settlement of the longstanding karabakh conflict radically changes the situation in the south caucasus and makes it possible to open many new transport corridors between asia and europe. A scandal erupts in relations between india and canada due to the murder of the leader of the sig separatists, who lived in exile. The indian authorities. Are expelling a Senior Canadian diplomat in response to the announcement of nongraths persona by an Indian Embassy employee who headed the Indian Foreign affairs station. Intelligence in canada. Ottawa claims indian involvement in the elimination of the sikh leader, who advocated the separation of the state of punjab from india. Rejecting the accusations, delhi also curtailed negotiations on signing a trade agreement with canada, revealing that other western countries have refrained from commenting, which speaks to indias weight in modern times. World and the desire of the west to win it over to its side. The regimes in kiev and warsaw, considered the most reliable allies in the confrontation with russia, loudly broke pots within just a few days. Solution the polish governments ban on the transport of ukrainian grain in order to protect its farmers led first to a complaint from kiev to the world trade organization, and then to an exchange of loud critical statements between vladimir zelensky. Polish Prime Minister mateusz morawiecki. This whole situation has shown that, apart from russophobia elevated to the rank of state policy, there is very little that unites ukraine and poland. And i cant help but comment on my extravagant jacket today. Why was it chosen because its red, i suspect you guessed it, a reference to one of the colors of the polish flag, but for many of my colleagues, it evokes associations with the uniform of the american military. What conclusion do we come to, we write poland, usa, in our minds. On october 15, the next parliamentary elections will be held in poland, the main competitors for deputy seats in the sejm of the lower house of parliament will be the ruling conservativenationalist right Justice Party of Jaroslaw Kaczynski and the Political Association Civil Coalition of exPrime Minister donald tusk. And of course, i am happy to introduce todays participants discussions, Andrey Vladimirovich savinykh, chairman of the Standing Committee on international. Affairs of the chamber, representatives of the National Assembly of belarus. Hello. Good afternoon. I am glad to welcome to our studio andrei viktorich manoela, doctor of political sciences, professor at lomanosov moscow state university, member of the Scientific Council under the Security Council of the russian federation. Good afternoon. Im glad to welcome you. Of course, according to tradition, we begin our discussion with a quick question. What do you think, Andrey Vladimirovich, is it likely change of power in poland following the Election Results . Well , absolutely not, the point is that. Well, lets put it this way, the two main Political Forces, they are literally going head to head, the difference is, well, 35 , and, in fact, none of the Political Parties will be able to immediately gain a majority of votes, they give 33 , they should to gain at least 20,031 seats in parliament, but none of the analysts predicts more than 200. This means that in any case there will be a coalition, in any case there will be, well, a Certain Exchange of positions, with a confederation a coalition is possible, as you you think they are very different, such a tender blanket that unites an insane number of small parties, parties, supoloks and so on, ask me what their political position is, i wont answer, probably no one will be able to give a clear answer, so everything is possible, but an amazing thing, for the first time in the history of such elections, none of the small opposition parties declares in advance their readiness to create a coalition . Well, thats what it is, you dont understand whats going on, the whole political campaign, Election Campaign, it is happening very dirty, so uncultured, so generally boorish without respect for decency that , frankly speaking, it is even surprising, that is , it seems that literally all Political Forces in poland understand what the political establishment finds. In crisis, if it is in crisis, then issues of development and strengthening of statehood are not on the agenda, and all Political Parties are simply trying to stay in power, to stay afloat, but this is a serious loss and strategic initiatives, and frankly, i cant imagine how they will build this strategy for the countrys development, why, because the shortterm vision is profound for any state, including poland. Thank you, andrei vladimirov, i would naturally like to inform you that on the eve of the electoral race , the rzeczpospolita newspaper published the results of a sociological survey, which were disappointing for the current authorities of the republic, here andrei viktorovich, let us comment on these results, this is what you think they are upset the ruling party today, but the key players, duda, morowiecki, and of course kaczynski, colleagues, you see on the screen, but it certainly doesnt look very optimistic, but on the one hand. On the other hand, this is a typical picture for the ruling party, for almost any ruling party, because those in power make mistakes, and these mistakes are now being used to discredit them and compromise them in the elections, that is, in principle this is normal, so another thing is that, uh, well, in general, the rating of all Political Forces in poland is not very high, although the confederation has recently risen in the rankings. What does this mean . That indeed, here are the rightwing parties that advocate, well, for example , an alternative for germany for absolutely friendly relations with the same russian federation, just like in poland, there are people who do not agree with the course that, you dont agree with me , i have great doubts about this, because by and large, if we take russia and belarus, then no matter who wins the elections, the ruling party will occupy stable antirussian, antiwhite position. We sincerely would like to preserve traditional polish values, the law of justice, by and large. Based on a traditional family, community, National State, generally understandable, good human values, but the problem is that poland found itself, to use such a figurative expression, on a plane that flies in a completely different direction, unfortunately, with with your permission, lets talk to a polish expert, who can you say for whom you would give your the mood in Society Today prevails and the voice . Hello, well, the choice is very difficult, or rather, i would say that there really are no significant differences, i mean in terms of Foreign Policy, in terms of some Foreign Policy strategies, between the main forces of poland, at least those that are currently in level of parliament, which is represented in the Current Parliament and which now intend to participate in the next elections, there are no significant differences, although of course there are certain nuances, but in short, we can say that the main the opposition force, the socalled Civil Coalition, used to. To berlin and brussels, while the ruling party, rights and justice are close to the anglosaxons, to london and washington, so in terms of Foreign Policy, if we take into account that through for some time, i am sure that Continental Europe will wake up and will one way or another change its attitude towards russia and belarus, including the entire union state. And belarus, uh, a more, say, or maybe less dangerous option is now coming to power this liberal Political Force, which is close to berlin, and which at least will not aggravate , follow this path of aggravation of relations, well, first of all with russia, there is a Third Political force this is the force in the ranks of this particular party there are several , im not talking about all the politicians of this party, but there are several individual politicians, including those in the leadership, who express a completely different point of view on. To one of your remarks, you said that today is still a Political Force with liberals, yes in terms of views, values, it is less dangerous, since we do not observe particularly such, you know, rather even aggressive rhetoric towards the same republic of belarus, but you understand that this is the rub. Todays party, the ruling party, yes, we see very often in the media morovetsky, duda, and people , frankly speaking, in my opinion, are such useful idiots, well, to be honest, recently they have managed to embassy with ukraine, with germany, here tusk is a time bomb, and although poland today, but here is a stronghold of traditional values, like belarus, like russia, like ukraine, it once was, but look at the experiment being carried out today, arent you afraid . Tusks Political Forces . You know, in fact , unfortunately, poland is not a subject of International Relations in europe, in eurasia, it is not an independent entity, so the question of who the next ruling party in poland will depend on is strategically important for us, because it is this vector, how much will they depend on berlin, brussels, how much will they depend your. And london is of strategic importance, from the point of view of polishbelarusian relations , which are probably most interesting to you, yes, let me remind you, in 2016, immediately after the law and Justice Party came to power, remember, to you the speaker of the polish senate, the then stanislaw karczewski, came to minsk, he even met with the president of belarus, there was a short period when the Current Ruling Party , justice, tried to establish normal, goodneighborly relations with minsk, all this ended instantly, there, let me remind you, then in the twentieth year the same ruling party tried to interfere in one way or another in the internal affairs of belarus, but nevertheless, this was due to the fact that each. Of these Political Forces has some moments when the level of this dependence on external factors decreases, then, uh , they try to pursue a more or less independent policy, regarding tusk and conservative values, so i want to emphasize that donald tusk is a very, well, i would say pragmatic politician, yes, so no there will be no revolutions, values, some kind of, i dont know, change in this regard, in the value plan, in terms of value policy, this shows that it may even be too naive to perceive it that way, thank you very much, mateuszki was with us as a political analyst, a polish analyst, andrey viktorovich, please tell me whether you agree with what you heard, well, yes and no, because the polish expert described this situation quite accurately for a polish analyst, but in general we see, well, that the process is going quite chaotically, and not just because , that the forces are equal, at. Thats how sociology shows, and also because none of these forces can gain a clear advantage through legal means, that is, they do not offer anything new, that is, they compete with approximately the same platforms, with the same programs, both of which are very well known, polish voters, both of them have made mistakes, including stupid ones, in this regard, no matter what they try now, no matter how they try to disguise themselves as defenders of values, or nontraditional ones, in fact, the voter knows their real value, here in this in relation to the future, one of them can break out solely due to some kind of hype, or explosive pr, if this happens, there are also other methods, yes there are other methods, but in this beautiful diagram, what scares me most is the third path , when our bullsman, defender of businessmen, titov, decided to create the party of growth, the question arose about what ideology there would be, taken as a basis, at the very first brief dedicated to the ideology of the future party, titov said, we are not with the right and not with the left, we lets go the other way, our way is the third way, this is our ideology this is the ideology of the third way, which means the journalist who at that moment was his adviser. But this was not agreed upon with him, when he saw it, his hair stood on end, on the same day he brought titus a book, the third way was written there, the author of this book was musalini, extremely interesting information, yes, i would like to literally draw your attention , on several points that the polish guest expressed to you, he said that, by and large, poland gave up the sovereign right to determine its politicians, by and large. No matter which party wins, well, yes, the decision on the political course of this country will be made by brussels , most likely, the United States of america and great britain, this is the main and first thing, by and large all these parties ended up in strategic impasse, because their voters, the population of poland, would like traditional values, would like a peaceful direction, would like interaction with their neighbors. And they are being pushed by the center of power to a completely different policy; declaring their desires, as you think, is possible in poland some revolutionary processes . No , you know, what other situation, thats where it comes from, this is a constant thesis, like a threat from russia, where comes the thesis about the need to militarize polish society, the population. Literally intimidated, by and large they believe in these theses, they are brainwashed, so when they make their political choice, they will not choose between the ideal and the real, they will choose between real parties, which do not suit them more or less , it will be a choice between bad and even worse, as a result, we will get the final result, political, but this will not cancel this situation in any case, i. Have already given the metaphor of an airplane, and tusk, all the other politicians, they are just passengers there, at best, lets continue the metaphor, i will say, that serdesa is serving drinks, she is from brussels, and a pilot from the United States of america is sitting at the wheel of the plane, this will probably be a complete picture, a german politician, and he decided to run for the next elections to the european parliament, naturally arises question well, how do you exchange your seat in the bundestag for a seat in the european parliament, and he answers me nadya, so the car is located in germany, in brussels, so you see, these are the prevailing moods, lets talk about certain political ones frauds , it is worth telling the audience about this, here is the unofficial leader of the coalition of rightwing Political Parties united rights, Jaroslaw Kaczynski, back in november 2022, announced the creation of an Election Protection corps, which includes 70,000 supporters, and this corps will monitor election procedures to identify facts of violation of electoral legislation by competitors. So kochinsky said, but it is possible that if peace fails in the elections, the body will be used to fabricate these very facts of violations of the electoral legislation and , of course, compromising the entire electoral campaign, please tell me, there was also quite a lot of falsification there, you know , even if this happens in america. Yes, but americans take a very long time to this was done so that the violations that are now observed in Election Campaigns in america would finally become widespread there. As for the poles, this technique they use with the body is a very clever manipulation technique, although not new. So what did they essentially decide to do . They realized that it was very big. Acting on behalf of society , these are observers, the observers will be different, if they independently appear somewhere and are picked up there by some other smaller parties, thats what they are accordingly, they can spy on violations not only among opponents, but among themselves, but this is not very good, so create a corps, all these observers, potential people, active. And aggressively minded passionaries, gather in this corps, organize, well, at the same time to teach how to identify those things that need to be identified there, to create an organized force out of them, all passionaries, that is , people who are generally not indifferent to how the elections will be held and those who are ready to spend their time on observe, they will flock to this building, they will all be under the control of one single Political Force, and most importantly, these seem to be observers, it was also said there, yes, that is, these are not party supporters, in which case they , of course, can declare their protest , and this will be a protest from the depths of society, that very deep people , this is a technique and the poles are not the first to use this technique, but it appeared relatively recently, well, it is important to emphasize that the opposition, in turn, responded to this action to guard the elections, which has already more than 50,000 people are involved. There is a very interesting point here, the thing is that the poles have already gone their way, 2014, local elections, morawiecki said , he himself personally spoke publicly that there were huge falsifications, so in principle, lets say, distrust in the elections , this is already becoming a traditional approach in almost all western democracies, including poland. The second point, which is surprising, which no one, well, maybe calculates, and maybe, by the way, they consciously lead to this, because any a Political Party requires serious funding, this serious funding comes not from ordinary people, not from voters, but, as a rule, from transnational corporations. Well, or Large National corporations, it turns out that the creation of such corps, in fact , on the one hand, allows you to solve tactical problems, and strategically drives the party into debt, which will then dictate the political course of this party, this happens everywhere, it has already reached borders of the United States of america and now this trend gaining strength directly in poland. This is a very important point that i would like to emphasize, but again, all this is being done against the backdrop of total distrust of all Political Forces to each other, this is a very serious political crisis, i am glad to welcome to our studio, member of the bundestag of the nineteenth convocation, german businessman gert, valdemar , hello, yes, good afternoon, good, i think you, like many people involved in political processes, are following. The progress of the Election Campaign here are the upcoming ones elections in poland on october 15, how clean do you think todays political game is, because some of todays steps of the same ruling party, but peace, they really at some point became absolutely populist, this is how you can separate the wheat from the chaff, even in relation to ukraine , do you think it is their personal desire to implement an embargo on ukrainian grain, or is it just playing along, for a short period of time, until october 15 there will be such a line, and then, well, thats what the elders will say comrade . Pure political game, dirty political game, in general politics is a dirty business, from the point of view of morality, from the point of view of all other things, honest, sincere, big politicians, they have sunk into the past, since, de gaulle, these are those who dreamed of a european continent, those who were not engaged in enriching themselves, but the main thing a politician should be concerned with is the welfare of his people, unfortunately, now it has become a business for everyone, and this business model, which came from overseas, has taken over almost the entire political economy life, the elite, like the german one, well, germany is a little different, germany is treated differently, it is treated like a colony, like an occupied country, there are different approaches and methods assigned there, put in place, well, if the chancellor of germany, before the inauguration, the United States should fly to bow, genghis khan, in my opinion, or the mongols used to do this with russian princes, there is nothing new in this, so here they play with the political differently, and poland, but it is still definitely an independent country with great ambitions that are now the same americans sowed, now everything will be used, all levers to ensure that voters elect, and the day after the elections, it will be completely different, as you already said, now we need to catch the voters, electoral discontent, discontent of the peasants, baurs, cheap grain breaking, the economy and so on, now work will go on for the voter, of course, i want to talk about germany, because this is such a tragic story today, how easily the state gave away. So to speak in the European Union, but at least like this you know, rabid, active guys, but skirmishers, you dont agree with me, no, well, the one who shouts loudly is not necessarily a leader, that is, understand correctly, i completely agree with my interlocutor that germany has now begun to be destroyed, and both as an Industrial Power and as a real economic one. Leader of the European Union, this is happening for slightly different reasons, the fact is that this hierarchical world, when there is a core and there is a periphery, now that china, russia, india, brazil are trying to leave from the Global Financial system, it turns out that germany is being appointed to the role of the periphery, well, in fact, Continental Europe, this is very serious. Political transformation, which, frankly, i dont know if it can be stopped, against this background , relatively speaking, the assemblage point, if it happens, it will most likely be in several countries of old europe, here i would rather name germany, austria, the north of italy, poland is rather a really ambitious, loud player who, having no resources, acts on about. Completely Different Centers of power, Global Centers of power, and this is not even the United States, these are supranational structures that do not have a national registration, this is Global Financial capital, by and large, the future of poland as a National State does not interest them at all, they will bring this country to sacrifice, then , as they say, the ashes will be scattered to the wind, this is a real threat, and if. Politicians do not realize it, then i do not think that the future of poland will be prosperous. Here is andrey viktorovich, please tell me, you a brilliant expert in information hybrid warfare. Do you have any notes of your own regarding the political activity that is taking place in poland today . This all reminds me of fuss, spiders in a jar, because no matter who comes to power. No matter how they frolic, no matter how loudly they declare themselves now, it is clear that they are very scared and it is clear where the true threads stretch, which, as soon as someone comes to power, will generally determine who will be the head of state who will be the ruling party, they will immediately receive their instructions and this is how it was all the time, in this relationship, poland is of course behaving very actively and very aggressively, and we constantly see information. Events reasons that they create a scandalous nature, but at the same time they very much scared, at one time before crimea voluntarily became part of the russian federation, quite often we flew to poland and the last such delegation was, i headed it, just in the fourteenth year immediately after the entry of crimea, that is, i was there very interesting cut how polish politicians perceived this event, which shocked them, so before crimea the most common question was, what interested them . They were most interested in what kind of relations between russia and germany, how close russia and germany would become , because this clearly frightened them, so. And one day they asked me a frank question what would happen if russia and germany came to an agreement . At that moment there were small differences between our countries, there were disagreements, but nothing significant, well, accordingly the answer to answer this question, it is clear what will happen if russia and germany come to an agreement, they will Work Together on a historical matter, some favorite historical matter, well, the division of poland, and this is the motive that is playing now, exactly. Therefore, he is doing everything to prevent russia and germany from getting closer than a certain distance. I dont know, i perceive this as some kind of phantom fears; the rapprochement between russia and germany could become the basis for the Economic Prosperity of poland, because poland is now not releasing a competing products, they are already included in the structures, corporate structures of german concerns, producing spare parts, equipment elements, and semifinished products. It turns out that if germany and russia built a common market, this would be the basis for industrial development, it would not allow germany to determine itself, but you know, lets watch the video with you, it made quite a lot of noise on social networks, the ruling party of poland is right justice has published a harsh antigerman propaganda video, lets watch it together. Hello, good afternoon, you are receiving a call from the german embassy. I would like to coordinate this with the head of government. Tusk is no longer here, thats the point, well, they emphasized that during the time of tusk, germany itself and possibly others, the embassy interfered in the internal politics of poland, but in fact, duda, morowiecki and kaczynski, they are the ones who defend our sovereignty, but i would like you and me to recall for our viewers a short biography of mr. Kaczynski, please, Jaroslaw Kaczynski, polish politician, founder and chairman of the Ruling Conservative Party law and justice, peace twin brother of the deceased polish president lech. Since june 21, 2023, achinsky has held the position of deputy Prime Minister of the government, created especially for him, overseeing the bloc of power ministries, and is considered one of the most influential people in polish politics. Also , Yaroslav Kaczynski is the main ideologist of polands internal policy, which is characterized by lustration of officials from the times of the polish peoples republic, decommunization, with the demolition of monuments to soviet soldiers, including strengthening the role of the catholic church, in particular propaganda. Conservative values ​​in general , opposition to migration from asian and african countries , government attempts to control the judiciary, in Foreign Policy kaczynski is a eurosceptic and russophobe. You know, people who are politicians are always of particular interest, but at the same time they refuse the leading place and become such shadow players who just manage, well, thats right, well, i would say a little differently, look, thats the one the crisis in which not only poland, but in fact the entire European Union now finds itself, leads to a very strange situation , in the political field, either very powerful charismatic authoritarian leaders can play, well, such as, for example, the hungarian Prime Minister orban, yes, who is trying with all his might to get hungary out of the situation in which it finds itself, if such people are not there, there are, as a rule, political buffoons who come up with an agenda, draw attention to some fact that they supposedly consider important , but in fact, their task is simply to distract attention, to divert attention from what is really happening, and the main thing is for them to hold on and survive , thats all, uh, i very much doubt that kaczynski has any serious, element of influence outside of ultimately him in the same way, instructions are given on how to act and what to do. The kachinsky man , who completely does not. Does not fit the requirements for a political leader, is a largely infantile person, just as his brother was, firstly, a person who gets lost very quickly, thats why he hides somewhere, and if we see that he was there, then something scared him and he disappeared somewhere, yes, for a while, we always begin to put forward conspiracy theories about that he is actually concentrating, that he is thinking about secret plans, that he has settled down somewhere and is pulling from there. Nothing like that, he got scared, hid under the bed, in this regard, in the army there is such a maneuver, its called wearing down the enemy by running, that is, when you run from the enemy, its not running, its exhausting, kochinsky is just from this category, in my opinion, and there is one more point, he is also a plagiarist, because we just watched the video that it resembles one to one according to the script, and according to the script it resembles real love, a film that was made. About how american president s come to the newly elected british Prime Minister, the Prime Minister of great britain, there is exactly the same story, the american president begins to tell him that britain should do this and that , this and that, thats tough diktat, like in a telephone conversation, so he seems to hesitate, but then in the end he says, we wont do all this, we are a great country, great britain, we. The country of beckhams left foot, we are the country of beckhams right foot , and the dictator, the american president leaves in disgrace, this is the dream of those countries that cannot afford this in real politics, here the same dream is embodied in this video, only they would at least come up with some original scenario, you cant rip it apart, there after all, there are copyrights, i agree with you, valdemar, i would like you, as an experienced politician, to perhaps tell us some. Stories, because i think you know well, have observed the actions, the political game, the same kaczynski, or the same tusk, yes, you can say whatever you want about kochinsky, but his psychological analysis of the portrait that even you are talking about now is very similar to the portrait of the whole of poland, yes, russophobe and eurosceptic, poland itself. Goes exactly like this, and he, yes, he is hidden, like this, incomprehensible, nondescript, but ideologically enough seeds have been sown to build an internal Foreign Policy along precisely these two vectors. Poland naturally gave up part of its sovereignty, like all republics and countries that are members of the European Union. But poland is the only postsoviet country that has benefited from this. We look at the baltic countries, what happened to them, the poles are very cunning, very wise, they pulled out all the subsidies that could be pulled out, they pulled up their infrastructure, they pulled up their economy only after that they began to snap back, now for them the collapse of the European Union is probably even a desirable scenario , they wont have to repay debts, we are a great country, we are friends. With the americans more and better stronger than everyone else, everyone else that they are still trying to, uh, somehow resist, but we dont, we are the faithful watchdog of our overseas master, we have great chances, because all this cheese, the nord stream explosion and so on, they were sleeping and dreaming about whats going on they will have a gas hub that will become the whole of europe. Supply with the liquefied gas that the americans promised would be supplied to them. Let us comment on the Economic Situation in poland, the level of gdp. Poland received a total of about 200 billion dollars in funding from the European Union. Yes, i must say that they spent it really very effectively, largely due to the scale of their economy. Still, 40 Million People are not 3 million, somewhere in the baltics, right . Well, in one of the baltic countries the population was in ukraine and more moreover, the mechanism made it possible to finance a number of projects from their own funds, and then receive compensation from brussels, they had their own funds, so they were still leaders among all these countries in receiving grants and project money, but here is another problem that arises, the whole point is that they still sacrificed large industry, the second point, which. Here is reflected, the limit of exhaustion is approaching, the exhaustion of these funds and these funds, and here another problem arises, conservative. It doesnt want to live on the brussels agenda, and brussels is talking about this you joined, you gave us the right to make decisions within the framework of Foreign Policy, within the framework of foreign economic policy, please, obey, but the poles are resisting, as a result, they are now blocked from 35 million, restoration. To speak, i would call this situation such, you know, a precarious balance , when on the one hand the decline has not yet begun, but there are no prospects for development as such, to add anything to what has already been done, that is, this is the balance , im afraid that before something serious, this is the peak we can observe with you. I remind you that on the air of the program sas is authorized to announce that we are talking about the upcoming parliamentary elections in poland, scandals, manipulations, but i would like to note that shortly before the parliamentary elections poland was shaken by a case of corruption in issuing visas, the head of the mit. Sbic nerau and his former deputy Piotr Wawrzyk were accused of illegally selling vis, and according to the investigation over the past 3 years they initiated the issuance of about 350,000 visas for workers from africa and asia. They charged up to 40,000 for one visa. The money was divided between the smugglers and the officials themselves. Polish Law Enforcement agencies are checking the embassy in india, hong kong, the united arab emirates, qatar in the philippines, taiwan in other countries. And starting in march. Several suspects were arrested in connection with the case. Including an indian businessman, you know whats amazing, naturally, the ruling party claims that they are against migrants, but when actually for money, well, for money yes, andrei viktorich, please, i want you to comment on this story, because a lot of noise, but yes, yes, yes, but this is really life, this is a clever scheme, so the guys, apparently, really lived very well, having built their business, precisely on those powers that they had in connection with their positions positions, and that the fact that they issued such a huge number of visas to africans, many of whom, upon verification, turned out to be not africans at all , suggests that this scheme was stable and not two of these people were in it, and not two people determined, uh, how it was everything will line up, which means that everyone shared everything accordingly, because the incomes are very large and everyone. I believe that within the framework of this vicious circle, this project, he and the people who were doing it there and earning money for themselves and rose with this, they called sincere respect, like such clever businessmen, until the moment it finally turned out to be at the epicenter of the scandal, now they are being treated in every possible way, and i think that everyone is being imprisoned, but the question is, will they open up the entire network of which of which they were either not the top but a transmission link, or this network will remain, they wont uproot it, they wont install new overseers, you know, when i look at this situation, i see two points one is systemic, which you definitely need to Pay Attention to, the thing is that polands economy cannot live without migrants, they have a constant need for qualified personnel, the problem is that qualified. These are the vacancies they themselves cannot do, so they are forced to open the door , so to speak, to the influx of migrants, another question that they would certainly like to have migrants are qualified, ethnically close and obedient, but this creates opportunities for this kind of abuse, and here there is also a purely human reaction. Which is a proverb dont dig a hole for someone else, youll fall into it yourself, remember when we the migration crisis began, it began when the European Union refused to cooperate with the republic of belarus in the fight against illegal migration, they took it completely, just left all these programs in one day , the first time when the crisis unfolded in our country, and it unfolded right then, and we they started fighting him, they imprisoned 17 people, the organizers of these illegal migration routes, there were citizens of poland, germany, unfortunately, ukraine, and there were none. And of course, in poland, simultaneously with the elections in october it is planned to hold a referendum of an extremely conservative nature, voters will be asked to speak out about softening migration policy, reducing costs for strengthening borders, selling land to stateowned companies, of course, raising the retirement age, and the answers, as planned by the initiators from the ruling justice and Justice Party , are no, no, no again. The opposition is confident that this is a way to mobilize. Conservative electorate, and also bypass the companys funding limits, because separate money is allocated for the referendum, details in our story, simultaneously with parliamentary elections, on october 15 a National Referendum will be held in poland, initiated by the ruling justice and Justice Party. Four issues will be put to the vote the acceptance of Illegal Immigrants under the eu program, the demolition of the fence on the polishbelarusian border, the sale of stateowned enterprises, and an increase in pensions. Age, and holding a referendum on election day, the Prime Minister explained simple savings, i can confirm that we plan to hold separate elections and a separate referendum entails additional costs, otherwise the costs will be almost the same. However, the referendum caused sharp criticism from the opposition, saying that this was only part of the ruling partys Election Campaign. The opposition also accused justice of trying to influence voters decisions on election day by promising to boycott the referendum. This is not a referendum, it is simply an Election Campaign of the right to Justice Party, which thus avoids its financing. It is clear that the answers to these questions have long been answered are known, and the most important question that voters will face on october 15, whether to remove this bad government or not, is a very simple question, and we will answer it together on the fifteenth. It is worth noting that in addition to the referendum, a special place in the preparation for the elections is given to relations with belarus, which politicians from the law and Justice Party pose as a threat, which is why one of the key issues is the fence on the border of the two countries, for this purpose the polish authorities are systematically inventing and broadcasting various accusations against in belarus, in order to improve relations between the countries, Alexander Lukashenko previously said that he had instructed Prime Minister Roman Golovchenko to contact poland. On the other hand, however, warsaw was not interested in this; the priority was to prove to ordinary poles the expediency of natos presence in the country. Whatever the goal of the Ruling Coalition is now pursuing, many experts agree on one thing now poland is on the verge of a war for sovereignty and real democracy, and now the people have the right to decide for themselves what political, economic and social processes are acceptable within the state and country to ensure the desired level and way of life, these are the manipulators, valdemar, please tell me how you feel about holding this referendum on election day, this time, and in general these are the issues that are being brought up for debate referendum . And we should learn from switzerland , but we all probably need to, they hold referendums there without any special financial seal or anything else on any issues related to the welfare of the people, here it is natural that this referendum. Will be part of the Election Campaign campaign that can influence the result, well, that is, you cant imagine a better feast, despite the aggressive , extremely harsh rhetoric that we hear in relation to the republic of belarus, from the lips of polish politicians, from the lips, again, of the president of the republic of belarus, we very often hear a call for peace, for the search for compromise solutions, the opportunity to sit down at the negotiating table, and in general. The topics, frankly speaking, are very similar, and honestly, for poland, as for the republic of belarus, traditional values ​​are the set that we unites, lets hear the president s synchronicity, please, time has shown that our noble desire to live in peace was not appreciated by our neighbors, im not talking about the polish people, im talking about the elites, politicians, who have been thirsting for revenge all these years, taking this opportunity, neighboring countries, the poles , lithuanians, latvians , know that we are not drawing plans to interfere in your life, we wish you only goodness, happiness and peace, yes, it is very correctly emphasized that there is none. Attitude towards the poles, there is a specific ruling elite and, frankly speaking, this is probably 23 , here people who dream, yes, again, of restoration. Still not the poles who live today, if we take the people of poland, then no one there harbors these phantom imperial ambitions, moreover, from a simple pole you will always you can hear the question why we need this, by the way, this applies not only to the old lands , so to speak, belarus, this even applies to galicia, thats what it will give us, people there are not tuned in to these things, the second point that needs to be important. It should be noted that, uh, polish society also does not accept war. By by and large, militant rhetoric is exclusively a feature of political circles, but not of polish society. But theres one problem. Polish society has been seriously processed. They really believe in the threat from the east, they are constantly brainwashed with this thesis. From here. They are simply intimidated, they are afraid, and how to deal with this issue, this address from the president is really a very important point, to send a politically significant signal that we dont need your share, we dont need your land we need it, we have enough of our own, and this is a big problem, we have slightly overestimated the wisdom of the polish establishment, because they really abandoned the socialist period, they rejected it. As negative, seeing only the bad in it and not seeing the good, not seeing social development countries, they started with a clean slate, they were given institutions that polish society does not accept , neoliberal institutions, they now have a terrible conflict between institutions and society as a whole, how will they get out of this situation, to be honest, i just dont i represent, andrey viktorovich, but what do you think, is there a way out of this situation . Because it seems to me that when Development Models that are unnatural for you are so forcibly imposed on you, sooner or later you will say your resounding no, will they say sooner or later, this is the main question, because yes, a game was imposed on them, but they with great desire they joined in this game, and not only the establishment that we are talking about today, and the price of which we know, got involved, almost all layers got involved polish society, politics. Poland and the political elites are now driven by illusions, but these illusions took a long time to form, until these illusions are broken on some rock, everything will be like it is now, well, absolutely disappointing forecasts for the future of poland, recent friends have become enemies, tension between kiev and warsaw is growing, zelsky said that some friends of kiev in europe are pretending to show solidarity in the political arena, but playing with grain. Should we keep this ban, i will tell you how it will end, poland will not allow it ukrainian grain flooded us. Regardless of what the brussels officials decide, we will not open the borders. You know, for many years of independent ukraine. The ukrainian people were fooled, forced to renounce history, from certain ideological values , to reshape the entire past again, to rewrite it , to impose on those friends who were never friends, today for ukraine, such actions of poland are such a knife in the back. Friendship is friendship, but tobacco is in ross, well done here, they defend the interests of their farmers, this is where the germans had a lot to learn, because im sure that in our country this decision, well, it would be impossible to make because of such tame politicians, he cannot do otherwise, maybe he would have acted differently, but the elections are just around the corner, and now dont say what the people want to hear , well, i probably think that his justification to washington sounds Something Like this what does it matter to you that i wont be elected, right . I should get elected and then well sit down and talk about all this, the poles are here, these are theirs just like this the style and nature of Foreign Policy, including domestic policy. When they play on the feelings of their own people, their voters, and do it correctly, this deserves respect, but will they be able to defend this position after the elections, now the americans are probably not interested in a change either, they will ease the pressure, but after the elections we we will probably see a completely different dialogue, there will be some folder with incriminating evidence on the table, thank you very much, i didnt notice how our time flew by program, and there are many more words that we have not touched upon, but i think we will return to the discussion, literally, let me literally make one remark, i absolutely agree that the poles will not be able to maintain this position, why, because they are not protecting themselves from ukrainian grain, but they are protecting themselves from american grain, which is produced by four or five large transnational american ones. Corporations that already control up to 50 of ukraines arable land and that supply this american grain to poland, germany and so on, so i think that these attempts, they really , i completely agree with my colleague here, they will live until the elections, after the elections they will be immediately canceled, by the way, it seems to me that if tusk occupied the leading position today, absolutely friend. Okay, we have to complete our program, the final word of todays program , andrei, please, well, no matter who comes to power in poland as a result of these elections, but here life goes on, so polands politics are unlikely to change in the near future , thats it that is, it will be just as antibelarusian, antirussian, just as aggressive. Just as shortsighted and just as sevenminute in general and controlled, of course, by the west, in this regard, apparently, there is a saying that says that you should never interfere with the enemy there or make mistakes, make mistakes, of course, because only ones own experience teaches, and even then not everyone, but apparently there is a path that poland must go through in order to understand that the course it is now following is dead end. And at the end of our discussion, i would like to quote, in my opinion, the extremely fair words of one of the prominent figures of the white emigration, a native of the town of tsekhanov podgrodna, ivan solonevich. I had to talk to the poles in warsaw in january 1940; everyone was to blame for the misfortunes that befell poland. And the germans, and the muscovites, and the british, and the jews, they alone, the poles, always , without any exception, acted honestly and wisely, acted as , of course, they were supposed to act, and the result, as a result, is everyones fault the rest, thank you, this was sass program. I have the authority to say that regardless of the Election Results, poland will face political and economic turbulence