Thank you very much. Let's start with that concept of a multi—front war. Israel is, of course, at war in gaza. It's at war in lebanon now, and it is in a de—facto war with iran, which is unfolding day by day. In your view, are any of those fronts avoidable, or is all of this unavoidable? well, you can add the houthis in yemen, you can add some militias in iraq and in syria. So, it's actually. . . And we have some problems in the west bank as well. So, it's a really a big mess now. Yeah. But in your view, as a security veteran with long years of service in special forces, and then, of course, as director of the mossad intelligence agency, is netanyahu in a place where he inevitably had to be, or is some of this avoidable? well, you know, it's a bit hard to say. If we rememberjust a year ago when the hamas started their attack, their murderous attack, immediately hezbollah joined the party. As you remember, and a week later, the houthis started their block on the bab—el—mandeb strait, and some militias started to launch rockets from iraq to israel. So, it was not that we started any activity — and we were forced to react. And that was the beginning. Unfortunately, we are already a year after it started. And. . . | hope and i believe and truly believe that, we should end it. . . . . As sooner the better. We'll get to your view of how to end it very soon. But i'm just interested in some of the tactics being used by the israelis at the moment. And to tap into your insights as head of mossad, until some eight years ago. After the obvious intelligence failings around october 7th, 2023, in recent weeks, the israelis are hailing a series of successes — that is targeted assassinations, the extraordinary operation in lebanon which involved exploding pagers and walkie—talkies. In your view, does what we have seen in recent weeks suggest that israeli intelligence has recovered from the very serious blow of october 7th? i believe so. If we try to judge the october the 7th case, i think it's more like 9/11 in the states. 0k? it should have been avoided. And a lot of mistakes had been done. I guess that in a very thorough investigation in the future, we'll understand exactly why. I got my guesses, but it's not enough. And at the moment that we understood that that's the situation — we had to move and to move fast, and it was done. Unfortunately, the hezbollah and lebanon particularly didn't understand the rules of the game. They thought that by joining and attacking our north, let's say northern part of our country, they are assisting the hamas. We tried, and the us envoy visited beirut, i think many, many times, more than a dozen times in the last year to try to convince them to stop the war, but they were not convinced. But i guess my question to you is whether you truly, truly believe that the netanyahu philosophy, that overwhelming asymmetric force can ultimately be applied to destroy hamas in gaza and destroy the capacity of hezbollah in lebanon. . . Whether that can work. It should work but it's not enough. , we need a post—war strategy but unfortunately, i don't see it. We need a post—war strategy, but unfortunately, i don't see it. I don't see it in gaza, i don't see it in lebanon. And that's a pretty bad sign that they will show us that this war may continue for a pretty long time, and that it's not for the benefit of israel and not for the region as well. On one specific point, and that is targeted killings, assassinations. In your time as head of mossad, it is believed that you ordered the killing of several key nuclear scientists inside iran. You presumably believe that that policy of targeted assassination was effective, that it worked. You know there are many people outside israel, and indeed some people in israel, who believe that, in fact, wiping out even senior leaders like hassan nasrallah of hezbollah or ismail haniyeh of hamas, while it might give israelis a feel—good factor, it really makes very little strategic difference. Look, i am not going to discuss my term in the mossad, but. . . Killing and assassination, it doesn't solve problems. But it's different when you are at war. When you are at war and the leadership, whether it's sinwar in gaza or nasrallah or all his commanders, in lebanon, they are targets. It's a military target. When you are able, when you are able during a. . . . . In the battlefield, in a war to kill the commander of a division or a battalion. . . . . You win something. But my question is, what difference does it make? i'm mindful, for example, that the masterminds within hamas of the october 7th attack became leaders of hamas after a previous generation of hamas leaders were wiped out. And this raises the deeper question of whether violence, force, really works in terms of eradicating a movement like hamas or hezbollah. It's a different question if you are within a war, ok, or you are in a ceasefire or in a. . . When the bullets are not, uh, coming in and out from israel, when the bullets are not coming in and out from israel, it's a different story. It's a different question. In a war, nasrallah is a target. He's a legit target. Let's say ten months ago, he was not a legit target, and he was not assassinated. Two years ago, he was not a legit target. He was not assassinated, ok? even though he was a leader of terrorist group. 0k? there are good reasons why to eliminate him, because he is a leader of a terrorist group. And there are. . . Let's say and there are other factors that can, show you that it's not. . . . . The right move at that moment. Right. Well, let's talk more. . . Let's talk more about what are right moves and wrong moves, because the killing of nasrallah and indeed the assault that israel has launched on hezbollah targets across south lebanon and other parts of lebanon has led to what is an escalating confrontation, direct confrontation with iran, which of course funds and arms hezbollah. Now you in the past, as head of mossad, opposed mr netanyahu as prime minister when he wanted to launch military strikes against iran's nuclear facilities. That, again, is being discussed inside israel. What is your feeling and your advice to the israeli government today? just. . . But i must correct you. Was bin laden a legit target, in your view, in the uk? mr pardo, i'm not here to answer questions, cos people are much more interested in your answers than mine. I really want to move on from the assassination policy now to this broad question. Israel faces choices about what it does next with regard to iran. As i say, in the past, you opposed netanyahu's plans, going back some decade and more, to strike iran's nuclear facilities. What about today? i believe that if iran will have nuclear capabilities, it's a disaster to israel. It's a disaster to the middle east. I believe that the uk, the united states and israel and many other countries should stop iran. . . . . Of even looking for nuclear weapons. If we won't have any other choice but to do it by ourselves, we'll have to do it. By ourselves, we'll have to do it, if they make their move. As long as they're not making their move, we should watch it, try to convince them not to, but if it will fail, someone could stop them. I prefer that it could be the united kingdom and the united states and not us. If we had to assist you and the states, we're willing to do so. If you will not make the move, unfortunately, at a certain stage, we'll have to do it. Mr pardo, here's something you said a while ago that i find very interesting. You said, when i was mossad director, i would ask netanyahu almost once a month, �*what is israel's vision? what do we want? �*what kind of country do we want our grandchildren to live in?�* there was never an answer. Do you believe that, today, netanyahu has a vision, has a long—term strategy for how israel is going to have a secure, sustainable future in the middle east? unfortunately, i don't see it. I haven't heard it. And i think that that's our — israel's — major problem. Do you think the key to that sustainable future, peaceful future, is actually not in relations with iran, but is actually close to home, in relations with the palestinian people who live side—by—side withjewish israelis in this small patch of land between the mediterranean and thejordan river? yes, i do believe so. I think that when we are. . . Just think — between the mediterranean and the jordan valley are living around 15 million people, halfjews, and half non—jews. So, we have to think, which kind of state do we wish to have for our children and grandchildren in the future? and if we will not be able to solve the problem properly. . . . . I believe, unfortunately, that. . . . . The future is not something that. . . . . I would like to see. So, let's start. . . If we consider the israeli—palestinian relationship, let's start with the here and now. You have long opposed netanyahu on this question of a ceasefire, and on prioritising the release of those remaining 100 or so israeli hostages being held in gaza. Would you absolutely prioritise their fate? that is, order a ceasefire now on the basis that that is the only way to get them out? i believe that the biggest mistake of our government was that, on october the 8th, before starting, let's say, to think about retaliation, about moving our ground forces into gaza, we had to solve the problem of all those people that were kidnapped by the hamas, starting with babies — young babies, less than six months old, up to 85 — or even more — older people. Women, children, whatever. I think that that should have been the first priority of the state of israel, then later on to deal with the terrorist group hamas. But. . . Our government decided differently. And we started a war, a full—scale war. Again, i want to. . . If i may, mr pardo, i want to tap into your experience because, again, as head of intelligence, you were directly involved in the negotiations and the decision—making over getting gilad shalit out of captivity in gaza. And in return for his freedom, of course, israel released hundreds — i believe, over1,000 — prisoners from israeli jails back into palestinian territory. Would you consider such a huge release again, as part of a ceasefire deal to get the israeli hostages out of gaza? and would you release, for example, particularly particularly important prisoners being held by israel, like marwan barghouti, convicted of murder by an israeli court, but a man widely seen by palestinians as perhaps the most credible future leader of the palestinian movement. Look, unfortunately, when you are dealing with terrorists or with, let's say, villains that are kidnapping your kids, you are not. . . . . You are unable to negotiate, ok? it's not a real negotiation. They are putting the terms. And if you want your kids back home, you have to pay the price. And that's a very, very simple question. And my answer is simple as well. Yes, we should release — the less as possible, of course — but we should release all those that are, let's say, selected by the hamas in order to get our people back, all of them, up to the last one. Let's think about the bigger picture of where israel is going. You are deeply unhappy with its direction — you've made that plain in this interview. You've long called for netanyahu's resignation. You've accused the current israeli government of adopting apartheid policies in the occupied west bank. You say that, if things continue as they are, the greatest threat to israel's future comes from within israel, not from any external threat at all. The problem seems to me to be that you're out of step with most of israeli public opinion at the moment. Most israelis are not prepared to contemplate the kind of compromise settlement with the palestinians, based on land for peace, which you advocate. Do you recognise that today's israel is not with you? well, i'm not. . . I never said that we are in a situation of apartheid. I said that i worry that if we will continue in our policy, it may happen, and if it will happen, it's going to be very sad and very risky for our country. I hope it will never happen. Yes, er. . . Unfortunately. . . . . I am in the minority now, but i am not so sure that i'm really the minority. I don't think that we've even started to deal with the real problems. I hope that, in the next election, it will be put on the table as a problem. And i believe that the majority, the vast majority of those who are living in my beloved country will see that, in order to become a part in the middle east, we should solve the israeli—palestinian conflict and not postpone it as we did for the last 57 years. But you see, the nationalist — many would call them extremist — elements in the current netanyahu government believe that they do have a vision, a solution to the israel—palestine problem. They believe that the solution is essentially to win by force, to control all of the land between the sea and the riverjordan, and to give palestinians a choice — either they can stay and accept that they will not be full citizens of the state of israel, or they can continue to fight, in which case they will be destroyed, to quote members of the far right, or they can leave. They can actually leave the territory altogether. Is, actually, that a vision which israel is moving towards? i certainly hope not. I think that those extremists are the minority within the minority in israel. Unfortunately, they are part of the government. These people are in government. You know, mr smotrich, mr ben—gvir have extremely extremely important positions and their support props up mr netanyahu. Positions and their support look, um. . . Positions and their support unfortunately, yes, they're part of the government. I think that even the majority within the likud party of netanyahu do not believe in that. . . . . Horrible thoughts of mr smotrich and mr ben—gvir. I believe that other parts in the coalition do not share the same view as smotrich and ben—gvir. So, now it's a very. . . For certain reasons, netanyahu chose them as being part of his coalition because of many internal problems, let's say. He's indicted and many other problems. So, here he is not. . . I don't believe that he is adopting their view. Maybe you're just refusing to accept reality. Some time ago, you said, there is a struggle over the soul of israel. The nation is in danger of breaking in two. Seems to me, if it breaks in two, you might be on the losing side. Do you believe so? i will never lose — never. We will never lose. I think that though we are as being a liberal, we are, as being a liberal, as we live in a democracy, i believe that the majority, the vast majority — more than 80% of israelis — believe in democracy and believe in liberalism. So, i don't see it as a real threat, but it's a potential threat that we have to deal with. Tamir pardo, we've run out of time. I thank you very much indeed forjoining me on hardtalk. Thank you. Thank you very much. Hello. Tuesday brought no shortage of heavy downpours to many parts of the uk. But over the next couple of days, things will be turning just a little bit drier — at the same time, though, as northerly winds develop, it will also turn colder. Low pressure is still in charge of the scene right now. This low still bringing some outbreaks of rain for parts of the uk. This deep low, ex—hurricane kirk, thankfully staying well away to the south of us, bringing some very wet and very windy weather to northern parts of spain. Back home, some outbreaks of rain — mostly quite patchy, quite showery in nature, but the odd heavy burst across northern england, up into eastern scotland. Rather cloudy and damp for parts of wales, the north midlands. Northern ireland seeing a lot of clouds, some spots of rain and drizzle as well. Further south, south wales, southern england, a mix of sunny spells and showers, 16—17 celsius. But northern scotland turning brighter, but colder later in the day as these brisk northerly winds kick in. Could even see some wintry showers over high ground in northern scotland, because temperatures really will be dropping away through wednesday night into the first part of thursday, with a frost across parts of scotland. A little bit milder further south first thing on thursday, but through the day, this cold air will be moving its way southwards. So, a very different feel to the weather, but actually, things don't look too bad. Things don't look too bad. Certainly a drier day in prospect, some good spells of sunshine. Just a few showers around western and eastern coasts, where it will be quite windy for a time. Still the potential for some wintriness mixing in with the showers over the very highest ground in northern scotland. But these are the afternoon highs — 8—13 celsius at best. Could well see a frost in parts of england and wales to start friday morning. Here, though, we should see some good spells of sunshine — northern ireland not looking too bad, but we will see cloud and patchy rain getting into the northwest of scotland. Still feeling a little bit on the chilly side — 8—9 celsius in the far north of scotland, 12—13 for south wales and the south of england. Now into the weekend, high pressure never too far away from southern parts — so here, staying largely dry. Fairly weak frontal systems up to the north, bringing some rain at times. And if anything, those temperatures just creeping upwards a little bit — by sunday, highs of 11—15 celsius. Florida in a century. Benjamin netanyahu claims israel has killed the possible replacement for the head of hezbollah in lebanon, but israeli forces say they cannot confirm that. And the man known as the godfather of ai wins this year's nobel prize in physics. Hello. I'm caitriona perry. You're very welcome. Floridians are evacuating en masse, ahead of hurricane milton's landfall on wednesday. The hurricane has been upgraded to a category five storm, with the national hurricane center reporting that it has doubled in size since tuesday. Local authorities and weather experts say milton will bring a destructive storm surge in which some areas will not be survivable. Hundreds of flights have been cancelled, ahead of its landfall, which is expected to bring strong winds