Transcripts For BBCNEWS Newsnight 20241004

Tells us Social Media users made their lives worse. Will the Laws Change . Hello. Welcome to newsnight, home of late Night Talk and takes. A secretive Air Base in the Indian Oceans triggered a row pitting colonial history against the new cold war. Our guests include Samuel Kasumu once Race Policy Advisor to Borisjohnson And Coco khan podcast queen, whose advice for Boris Johnson Cant be broadcast. First to newsnight� s political king, nick watt. We need to begin with that name because we need to begin with that name because he is making the headlines as the because he is making the headlines as the news hits the Airwaves Customer as the news hits the Airwaves Customer yes, as the news hits the Airwaves Customeryes, borisjohnson, the front customeryes, borisjohnson, The Front Page customeryes, borisjohnson, The Front Page of customeryes, borisjohnson, The Front Page of the daily telegraph, he says front page of the daily telegraph, he says that the uk needs a referendum. He says that the uk needs a referendum. ,. ,. ,. , referendum. Hang on, not the use of that word again . Referendum. Hang on, not the use of that word again . Yes, referendum. Hang on, not the use of that word again . Yes, a referendum. Hang on, not the use of that word again . Yes, a referendum| that word again . Yes, a referendum on whether that word again . Yes, a referendum on whether we that word again . Yes, a referendum on whether we should that word again . Yes, a referendum on whether we should pull that word again . Yes, a referendum on whether we should pull out that word again . Yes, a referendum on whether we should pull out of. That word again . Yes, a referendum| on whether we should pull out of the European Convention on Human Rights. You are pre empting me, meaning that borisjohnson wants you are pre empting me, meaning that Boris Johnson wants another you are pre empting me, meaning that borisjohnson wants another one of these, their years in the 2016 vote leave. In these, their years in the 2016 vote leave. ,. , leave. In this Telegraph Interview he is throwing leave. In this Telegraph Interview he is throwing himself leave. In this Telegraph Interview he is throwing himself into leave. In this Telegraph Interview he is throwing himself into the i he is throwing himself into the heart of the current tory leadership race. ~. , y. , heart of the current tory leadership race. ~. ,. ,. , race. Would you really say that Boris Johnson race. Would you really say that Boris Johnson from race. Would you really say that Boris Johnson from his race. Would you really say that Boris Johnson from his rustic. Borisjohnson from his rustic retreat doesnt want a political role . He isnt backing a candidate but saying he wants a referendum on whether to pull out is getting pretty close to the robertjenrick view. He wants us to pull out of the echr. ~ u, view. He wants us to pull out of the echr. , view. He wants us to pull out of the echr. ~ ,. , echr. We can see the four candidates. Echr. We can see the four candidates. He echr. We can see the four candidates. He hasnt echr. We can see the four candidates. He hasnt endorsed but basically said number two, im closest to him, so its a massive intervention. Well discuss it. Lets go back to how the day began, this huge piece of history, with talk of the Chagos Islands. Thats ri. Ht, talk of the Chagos Islands. Thats right. There talk of the Chagos Islands. Thats right, there are talk of the Chagos Islands. Thats right, there are the talk of the Chagos Islands. Thats right, there are the four talk of the Chagos Islands. Thats l right, there are the four candidates for the leadership and after their speeches to the conservative party conference, each one of them highly critical of this decision by the uk to cede control of its last African Colony. We saw Tim Tugendhat Tom Tugendhat. We should never have agreed, we shouldht we should never have agreed, we shouldnt have begun negotiations in November Shouldnt have begun negotiations in november of 2022. It means that although the airbase which is jointly although the airbase which is jointly uk us operated is maintained on a 99 jointly uk us operated is maintained on a 99 year lease, the other outlying islands are going back to mauritian sovereignty. There are many other countries that would be interested in a permanent base in the indian interested in a permanent base in the Indian Ocean. China being one of them. As the Indian Ocean. China being one of them. � , the Indian Ocean. China being one of them. ,. , them. As we can see, Tom Tugendhat, worried that this them. As we can see, Tom Tugendhat, worried that this will give worried that this will give an opening to china. He also perhaps a political aim, very keen for us to know who was the Foreign Secretary when these talks opened in 2022. That would be James Cleverly, his rival for the leadership. That would be James Cleverly, His Rivalfor the leadership. The rival for the leadership. The James Cleverly rivalfor the leadership. The James Cleverly Campaign Say rival for the leadership. The James Cleverly Campaign Say that there is no point pretending that this is anything other than the labour Partys Deal. Anything other than the labour Partys Deal anything other than the labour Partys Deal. There is war raging around the Partys Deal. There is war raging Around The World but Partys Deal. There is war raging l Around The World but that explains why this is the new political fault line. Tell us a bit about the Chagos Islands. ~ ,. , �. ,. , line. Tell us a bit about the Chagos Islands. ,. , line. Tell us a bit about the Chagos Islands. ~ ,. , �. ,~. ,. , islands. Why dont we take a look at the ma . Islands. Why dont we take a look at the map . We can islands. Why dont we take a look at the map . We can see the the map . We can see the Chagos Islands in the Indian Ocean and write down now, mauritius is going to take sovereignty. Interestingly borisjohnson in his daily Telegraph Interview says, look at the distance. There is nojustification. He says it is Lefty Lawyers from Matrix Chambers and doughty street, where Keir Starmer started. And we can zoom in on the archipelago and see there are 58 islands in all in the Archipelago And Right at the bottom, the biggest of them all, diego garcia, an absolutely massive, technically uk Military Base, used by the us and under this deal there will be a renewable 99 year lease. The big bluesie, we are oceans away from the uk, many people wouldnt have been able to pinpoint this on the map. That tells us why, there has been a massive colonial history here. �. Has been a massive colonial history here. ,. ,. ,. , here. And rich in history and that Matters Today here. And rich in history and that Matters Today. Why here. And rich in history and that Matters Today. Why dont here. And rich in history and that Matters Today. Why dont we here. And rich in history and that| Matters Today. Why dont we look here. And rich in history and that. Matters today. Why dont we look at a bit off the history . Going back to 1814 we can see that the uk took control of the Chagos Archipelago from the french. Bouncing forward to 1965, the uk created the british indian Ocean Territory and then three years later you have mauritian independence. The significance of those dates means that an independent mauritius never ran the islands but they say that they relinquish the claim as part of an independent steel. Between 1968 and 1973 the uk removed more than 1000 chagossioans to make way for that Military Base in diego garcia. In the 80s, mauritius formally advanced its sovereignty claim and in 2019 there was the international court of Justice Advice that the uk should end control and then there were negotiations. Stephen doughty, the Foreign Office minister, was talking about this today and was asked about that Tom Tugendhat point about what happens if a hostile State Sets up there. Well, there are very, very clear guarantees in this agreement, to ensure that the national security interests of the united kingdom, of our allies and others are protected. We absolutely would not have signed any agreement that would put any of those at risk. And obviously, full details of the agreement will be published in due course. The highest number of Chagossioans Outside Mauritius live in crawley in sussex. There are estimated to be more than 3500 people given a british passport in recognition of the forced movement of islanders to make way for the airbase that nick was telling us about. The Labour Mp for crawley is peter lamb. Thejoint statement the joint statement says that the treaty addresses the wrongs of the past and demonstrates the commitment of both parties to support the welfare of chagossioans. What would you call the treaty . For welfare of chagossioans. What would you call the treaty . You call the treaty . For 60 years the chagossioans you call the treaty . For 60 years the chagossioans have you call the treaty . For 60 years the chagossioans have been you call the treaty . For 60 years i the chagossioans have been moved around by different states. It would have been time for the chagossioans to actually have a say in what the future is and yet here we are, yet again negotiating between other states are not talking to the community whose lives have been damaged by the policies over many years. Damaged by the policies over many ears. , damaged by the policies over many ears,. ,. , damaged by the policies over many ears. , ~. ,. , years. That sounds like a definition of imperialism. Years. That sounds like a definition of imperialism. You years. That sounds like a definition of imperialism. You arent years. That sounds like a definition of imperialism. You arent calling l of imperialism. You arent calling it that . ~ it that . Well, some could call it that, certainly. It that . Well, some could call it that, certainly. If it that . Well, some could call it that, certainly. If you it that . Well, some could call it that, certainly. If you are it that . Well, some could call it that, certainly. If you are going | it that . Well, some could call it l that, certainly. If you are going to act in that way. We that, certainly. If you are going to act in that Way Act in that way. We want your oinion, act in that way. We want your opinion, would act in that way. We want your opinion, would you act in that way. We want your opinion, would you call act in that way. We want your opinion, would you call it opinion, would you call It Imperialism . I opinion, would you call It Imperialism . Opinion, would you call It Imperialism . Opinion, would you call It Imerialism . ~ ,. , imperialism . I think it is the last vestiues imperialism . I think it is the last vestiges of imperialism . I think it is the last vestiges of the imperialism . I think it is the last vestiges of the colonial imperialism . I think it is the last vestiges of the colonial policy. Imperialism . I think it is the last vestiges of the colonial policy by| vestiges of the colonial policy by the Foreign Office. Ive contacted them on various occasions in relation to the chagossioans and found them consistently unwilling to take seriously the concerns of that community or to want to address their needs. And here we are yet again ignoring the wishes of that community as to what should happen to their homeland in the future. Share to their homeland in the future. Are ou to their homeland in the future. Are you making the same criticism of the Foreign Office ran by the Labour Party . We would think you might have a hotline to the labour run foreign Office And David lammy. Were you consulted with all of these chagossioans in your constituency . There was an attempt to have a Phone Call an hour before the announcement was made. ,. ,. , ~ was made. Is that enough time, 16 mitts, was made. Is that enough time, 16 mitts. Given was made. Is that enough time, 16 mitts, given that was made. Is that enough time, 16 mitts, given that you was made. Is that enough time, 16 mitts, given that you have was made. Is that enough time, 16 mitts, given that you have spent. Was made. Is that enough time, 16 | mitts, given that you have spent 16 years on this . 16 minutes. I dont think it is because the decision had been made without any consultation with the community themselves or with their elected representatives within this community. They have been very clear over that period. Ive never heard a single chagossioan in crawley suggest that mauritius should have the islands. While all means the Uk Shouldnt be involved but the Choice Shouldnt be involved but the choice should be down to the islanders themselves. Theyve been moved around for 60 years and told where to go and what will happen to their homeland. They want to go home on their own terms. It isnt our country, it isnt mauritiuss country, it isnt mauritiuss country, it is the Chagossioanss Country, it is the Chagossioanss Country and right now were handing them over to a different power. To be clear, the Foreign Secretary has ignored the wishes of your constituents . Ignored the wishes of your constituents . ~. , �. , constituents . Well, he cant ignore them if he hasnt constituents . Well, he cant ignore them if he hasnt listened constituents . Well, he cant ignore them if he hasnt listened to constituents . Well, he cant ignore them if he hasnt listened to them. So he hasnt listened to them . Theres been no attempt, as far as were aware, and met the representatives recently to discuss theissues representatives recently to discuss the issues we have been trying to get the Foreign Office to take seriously, to engage people whose home this is. You seriously, to engage people whose home this is seriously, to engage people whose home this is. , ~. ,. , home this is. You know the Dangerous Olitics of home this is. You know the dangerous politics of this home this is. You know the dangerous politics of this for home this is. You know the dangerous politics of this for you home this is. You know the dangerous politics of this for you as home this is. You know the dangerous politics of this for you as a home this is. You know the dangerous politics of this for you as a Labour Politics of this for you as a Labour Mp. Suella braverman, herself of mauritian descent, says that David Lammy is chinas idiot. Im mauritian descent, says that David Lammy is chinas idiot. Lammy is chinas idiot. Im not desperately lammy is chinas idiot. Im not desperately interested lammy is chinas idiot. Im not desperately interested In Lammy is chinas idiot. Im not desperately interested in the L Lammy is chinas idiot. Im not desperately interested in the wider arguments around this perspective. Im here as a representative of the largest community of chagossioans outside of maupay outside of mauritius to ensure that their voices heard on the issue. This a ears voices heard on the issue. This appears to voices heard on the issue. This appears to be voices heard on the issue. This appears to be a voices heard on the issue. This appears to be a fatal voices heard on the issue. This appears to be a fatal company. Is there something that these people can see that would put this right . This seems to be fait accomplis. Mauritius will take control of the istand~ mauritius will take control of the istand~ Ht Mauritius will take control of the island. �. , ~. , island. At the moment, in mauritius, and across the island. At the moment, in mauritius, and across the world, island. At the moment, in mauritius, and across the world, under and across the world, under mauritian law, if you try to claim that the islands dont belong to mauritius, you are liable to a ten yearjail mauritius, you are liable to a ten year jail sentence. Mauritius, you are liable to a ten Yearjail Sentence. These are people who have put the case for their continued independence and independent identity over many years. How many of them can go home if they are facing a ten Yearjail Sentence . We need surety around the independent administration of the islands within the state of mauritius by the people who live there and we need a guarantee that there and we need a guarantee that the provisions made under the nationalities and Borders Bill are not going to be overturned as a result of this decision. And we need reassurance that the Foreign Office in the future with remaining community of chagossioans in the uk and overseas who continue, that we. Acting in this way, where things are done to them and start listening to the community to whom we are an enormous debt and see what they actually want. Enormous debt and see what they actually want so to our panel. Samuel kasumu, who advised Borisjohnson On Civil Society and communities. In the shorthand, anti racism measures. And coco khan, Co Host Of Pod save the uk and guardian writer. Does it look to you like this another done to story . Listening to peter, he another done to story . Listening to peter. He was another done to story . Listening to peter, he was very another done to story . Listening to peter, he was very compelling another done to story . Listening to peter, he was very compelling and | peter, he was very compelling and powerful. It clearly isnt done, there are clearly opportunities for there are clearly opportunities for the voices of chagossioans to be heard, the Treaty Hasnt been signed. Isnt it great we are having this conversation . This conversation . Sounds like a done deal. This conversation . Sounds like a done deal, we this conversation . Sounds like a done deal, we should this conversation . Sounds like a done deal, we should be this conversation . Sounds like a i done deal, we should be concerned about done deal, we should be concerned about how done deal, we should be concerned about how this has been done. Firstly, about how this has been done. Firstly, the Chagos Islands is very strategically important. There are considerations that clearly havent been considerations that clearly havent been weti considerations that clearly havent been well thought through and we should been well thought through and we should be very concerned about the lack should be very concerned about the tack of should be very concerned about the lack of Self Determination for the people lack of selfdetermination for the eo le. � lack of selfdetermination for the eole. � ,. , lack of selfdetermination for the neale, � people. Are you saying the opportunity people. Are you saying the opportunity for people. Are you saying the opportunity for those people. Are you saying the I Opportunity for those people people. Are you saying the opportunity for those people to have the right to return at this moment in time . , in time . The right to Selfdetermination L in time . The right to i selfdetermination and in time . The right to selfdetermination and who in time . The right to selfdetermination and who governs Self Determination and who governs those Self Determination and who governs those islands, and it doesnt seem like they those islands, and it doesnt seem like they will have a choice. The thin is, like they will have a choice. The thing is, there like they will have a choice. The thing is, there is like they will have a choice. The thing is, there is a like they will have a choice. Iie thing is, there is a new like they will have a choice. Tie thing is, there is a new world like they will have a choice. Ti9 thing is, there is a new World Order under way, thing is, there is a new World Order underway, isnt thing is, there is a new World Order under way, isnt there, and there must be a Trade Off between 3000, 4000 chagossioans and China Pass growing axis of influence with russia. The you think we need influence in places like this and is 99 years a good thing . Its influence in places like this and is 99 years a good thing . 99 years a good thing . Its not particularly 99 years a good thing . Its not particularly good 99 years a good thing . Its not particularly good because 99 years a good thing . Its not i particularly good because looking 99 years a good thing . Its not particularly good because looking at chinas particularly good because looking at Chinas Expansion through the Belt And Road Chinas Expansion through the Belt And Road initiative, they are constantly increasing their influence in the region in a way that influence in the region in a way that She Influence in the region in a way that she worry all of a sudden so more that she worry all of a sudden so more than that she worry all of a sudden so more than 99 Years Customer what happens more than 99 Years Customer what happens in more than 99 Years Customer what happens in 99 years . You more than 99 Years Customer what happens in 99 years . Happens in 99 years . You want to write all over happens in 99 years . You want to write all over it. Happens in 99 years . You want to write all over it. It happens in 99 years . You want to write all over it. It should happens in 99 years . You want to write all over it. It should be write all over it. It should be about to write all over it. It should be| about to selfdetermination. Write all over it. It should be i about to selfdetermination. It about to Self Determination. [i cant about to Self Determination. Cant be about to Self Determination. It cant be that if you are Tom Tugendhat who ask who argues we have traded it away, a base in the Indian Ocean and we have done a started by James Cleverly customer yes, after Liz Truss had a mee the have traded it away, a base in the Indian Ocean and we have done a deal, and china could have the deal, and china could have the Island Next door. I Island Next door. I deal, and china could have the Island Next door. Deal, and china could have the Island Next door. Deal, and china could have the Island Next door. I dont want to live in a world deal, and china could have the Island Next door. I dont want to live in a World Island next door. I dont want to Island Next door. I dont want to live in a world where Island Next door. I dont want to live in a world where Island Next door. I dont want to live in a world where might Island Next door. I dont want to live in a world where might is i live in a world where might is right. Diplomacy is important. There live in a world where might i Island Next door. I dont want to live in a world where might is i live in a world where might is right. Diplomacy is important. There are advantages for the uk, we have are advantages for the uk, we have lost favour on the World Stage and lost favour on the World Stage and need the support of african need the support of african countries, especially in conflicts. Countries, especially in conflicts. It was hurting our reputation, we it was hurting our reputation, we had lost European Allies because of had lost European Allies because of brexit. They will be advantages. Brexit. They will be advantages. Tragedy comes in many formats. figs Tragedy comes in many formats. figs Tragedy comes in many formats. As was mentioned, the islands have a tragedy comes in many formats. As was mentioned, the islands have a lon was mentioned, the islands have a long and was mentioned, the islands have a lon was mentioned, the islands have a long and was mentioned, the islands have a long and complicated history and the long and complicated history and the reality long and complicated history and the reality is long and complicated history and the reality is that part of that History Reality long and complicated history and the reality is long and complicated history and the reality is that part of that history is that is that reality is that part of that history is that the reality is that part of that History Reality is that part of that history is that the reality is that part of that history is that the mauritians sold the is that the mauritians sold the island is that the mauritians sold the island for island is that the mauritians sold the island for is that the mauritians sold the island for 4 Million to the uk. And is that the mauritians sold the island for 4 Million to the uk. And now it looks island for 4 Million to the uk. fific now it looks like island for 4 Million to the uk. Elic now it looks like the uk have sold now it looks island for 4 Million to the uk. Elic now it looks like the uk have sold them out again. I them out again. I now it looks like the uk have sold them out again. Now it looks like the uk have sold them out again. Now it looks like the uk have sold them out again. I wouldnt say the uk. The labour now it looks like the uk have sold them out again. I wouldnt say the uk. The labour them out again. I wouldnt say the uk. The labour government, i them out again. I wouldnt say the uk. The labour government, yes, | them out again. I wouldnt say the i uk. The labour government, yes, and them out again. I wouldnt say the uk. The labour government, i them out again. I wouldnt say the uk. The labour government, yes, | them out again. I wouldnt say the i uk. The labour government, yes, and people uk. The labour government, yes, and people in uk. The labour government, yes, and people in mauritius are doing what people uk. The labour government, yes, and people in uk. The labour government, yes, and people in mauritius are doing what could people in mauritius are doing what could be people in mauritius are doing what could be things that are being could people in mauritius are doing what could be people in mauritius are doing what could be things that are being influenced. . Could be things that are being influenced. . Could be things that are being influenced. . ~ � ,. , influenced. . Werent these talks influenced. . Could be things that are being influenced. . Could be things that are being started by james influenced. . Werent these talks started by James Cleverly influenced. . Werent these talks| started by James Cleverly customer yes, after Liz Truss had a meeting influenced. . ~ � ,. , could be things that are being influenced. . 4000 criminals. Last year more than 4000 people criminals. Last year more than 4000 people who criminals. Last year more than 4000 people who had a custodial sentence of more people who had a custodial sentence of more than 12 months were sent back to of more than 12 months were sent back to where they had come from. Is this back to where they had come from. This miss back to where they had come from. Is this Miss Baking or entering the Toilet Chip Race . Mr; this interview is the man saying anything to remain relevant. You are doinu anything to remain relevant. You are doing Nicks Anything to remain relevant. You are doing Nicks Job Anything to remain relevant. You are doing Nicks Job for anything to remain relevant. You are doing Nicks Job for him. Anything to remain relevant. You are doing Nicks Job for him. Not doing nicksjob for him. Not better maybe quicker. What else is in this readout . As coco says, Borisjohnson What else is in this readout . As coco says, Boris Johnson does say he doesnt coco says, Boris Johnson does say he doesnt believe coco says, Boris Johnson does say he doesnt believe that coco says, Boris Johnson does say he doesnt believe that vladimir coco says, Boris Johnson does say he doesnt believe that Vladimir Putin i doesnt believe that Vladimir Putin would doesnt believe that Vladimir Putin would have doesnt believe that Vladimir Putin would have invaded doesnt believe that Vladimir Putin would have invaded ukraine doesnt believe that Vladimir Putin would have invaded ukraine were i would have invaded ukraine were donald would have invaded ukraine were donald trunrp would have invaded ukraine were Donald Trump President. Would have invaded ukraine were Donald Trump President. [5 would have invaded ukraine were Donald Trump President. Would have invaded ukraine were Donald Trump President. Is that a miss speech . Donald trump President. Is that a miss speech . He Donald Trump President. Is that a miss speech . He cant Donald Trump President. Is that a miss speech . He cant miss i Donald Trump President. Is that a | miss speech . He cant miss speak Donald Trump President. Is that a i miss speech . He cant miss speak on everything. He miss speech . He cant miss speak on eve hina. , , everything. He talks about how described at everything. He talks about how described at the everything. He talks about how described at the sheer described at the sheer unpredictability described at the sheer unpredictability of described at the sheer. Unpredictability of donald described at the sheer unpredictability of Donald Trump Nreans Unpredictability of Donald Trump means that unpredictability of Donald Trump means that Putin Unpredictability of Donald Trump means that putin would unpredictability of Donald Trump means that putin would not i unpredictability of Donald Trump| means that putin would not have tried means that putin would not have tried It Means that putin would not have tried it i means that putin would not have tried it. ~ , , means that putin would not have tried it. , ,. , tried it. I think both Trump And Putin and tried it. I think both Trump And Putin and perhaps tried it. I think both Trump And Putin and perhaps boris tried it. I think both Trump And L putin and perhaps Boris Johnson tried it. I think both trump and i putin and perhaps Boris Johnson to an Extent Putin and perhaps Boris Johnson to an extent are folks are full of testosterone and perhaps that could have helped to prevent the situation but its have helped to prevent the situation but its happened now, im not sure how productive or useful such a statement is. How productive or useful such a statement is. ~. , , statement is. What is interesting is Lookinu Statement is. What is interesting is looking forward statement is. What is interesting is looking forward to statement is. What is interesting is looking forward to because statement is. What is interesting is. Looking forward to because everyone assumes looking forward to because everyone assumes that looking forward to because everyone assumes that if looking forward to because everyone assumes that if donald looking forward to because everyone assumes that if Donald Trump looking forward to because everyone i assumes that if Donald Trump becomes President assumes that if Donald Trump becomes President it assumes that if Donald Trump becomes President it will assumes that if Donald Trump becomes President it will be assumes that if Donald Trump becomes President it will be bad assumes that if Donald Trump becomes President it will be bad for assumes that if Donald Trump becomes President it will be bad for President'>Ukraine I President it will be bad for ukraine because President it will be bad for ukraine because he President it will be bad for ukraine because he will President it will be bad for ukraine because he will want President it will be bad for ukraine because he will want to President it will be bad for ukraine because he will want to cut President it will be bad for ukraine because he will want to cut a President'>I President it will be bad for ukraine because he will want to cut a deall because he will want to cut a deal with worship because he will want to cut a deal with worship under because he will want to cut a deal with worship under boris because he will want to cut a deal with worship under Boris Johnsonl because he will want to cut a deal. With worship under Boris Johnson is asked with worship under Boris Johnson is asked about with worship under Boris Johnson is asked about that with worship under Boris Johnson is asked about that and with worship under Boris Johnson is asked about that and he with worship under Boris Johnson is asked about that and he says with worship under Boris Johnson is asked about that and he says he i asked about that and he says he doesnt asked about that and he says he doesnt believe asked about that and he says he doesnt believe that asked about that and he says he doesnt believe that the asked about that and he says he doesnt believe that the Father L asked about that and he says he i doesnt believe that the father make america doesnt believe that the father make America Great doesnt believe that the father Make America Great Again doesnt believe that the father Make America Great Again and doesnt believe that the father Make America Great Again and would i doesnt believe that the father Make America Great Again and would like i America Great again and would like to Make America Great Again and would like to make the America Great again and would like to make the soviet America Great again and would like to make the soviet Union America great again and would like to make the soviet union great America Great again and would like i to make the soviet union great game. Back to to make the soviet union great game. Back to your to make the soviet union great game. Back to your point to make the soviet union great game. Back to your point which to make the soviet union great game. Back to your point which i to make the soviet union great game. Back to your point which i rudely back to your point which i rudely interrupted, is this deliberate . Earlier nick called on The Sun king, he cant stay away, is resigned as an mp and here is trying to influence the tory Leadership Campaign. Influence the tory Leadership Campaign influence the tory leadership camaiun. ,. , , � , influence the tory leadership camaiun. , � ,. , campaign. You really think its that or has he just campaign. You really think its that or has he just got campaign. You really think its that or has he just got a campaign. You really think its that or has he just got a book campaign. You really think its that or has he just got a book to campaign. You really think its that or has he just got a book to sell . I or has he just got a book to sell . We must agree on that hes got a book we must agree on that hes got a book to we must agree on that hes got a book to sell. What i thought was the most interesting part worrying part of that most interesting part worrying part of that interview was when he mentioned that netanyahu put a listening mentioned that netanyahu put a Listening Device in his toilet in the Foreign Office the Foreign Office before the La Er to the Foreign Office before the lawyer to get the Foreign Office before the lawyer to get going, the Foreign Office before the lawyer to get going, soon i lawyer to get going, soon after meeting lawyer to get going, soon after meeting with lawyer to get going, soon after meeting with Benjamin Lawyer to get going, soon after meeting with benjamin netanyahu, sweet meeting with benjamin netanyahu, sweet found meeting with benjamin netanyahu, sweet found Advice Meeting with benjamin netanyahu, sweet found advice in meeting with benjamin netanyahu, sweet found advice in this meeting with benjamin netanyahu, i sweet found advice in this bathroom. That should sweet found advice in this bathroom. That should concern sweet found advice in this bathroom. That should concern all sweet found advice in this bathroom. That should concern all of sweet found advice in this bathroom. That should concern all of us sweet found advice in this bathroom. That should concern all of us more i that should concern all of us more than that should concern all of us more than any that should concern all of us more than any of that should concern all of us more than any of the nonsense he said the interview than any of the nonsense he said the interview. �. , interview. Dont forget, Matt Hancock was interview. Dont forget, Matt Hancock was filmed interview. Dont forget, Matt Hancock was filmed having i interview. Dont forget, matt| hancock was filmed having an Adulterous Kiss as well in the heart. � ,. , Adulterous Kiss as well in the heart. � ,. Adulterous kiss as well in the heart. �. Heart. Are you blaming netanyahu for that . Im heart. Are you blaming netanyahu for that . Im not heart. Are you blaming netanyahu for that . Im not but heart. Are you blaming netanyahu for that . Im not but we heart. Are you blaming netanyahu for that . Im not but we know for that . Im not but we know theres been for that . Im not but we know theres been problems for that . Im not but we know theres been problems of for that . Im not but we know theres been problems of security but youre saying this is his Book Mum say its politics but your convincing our view its about flogging a book . To convincing our view its about flogging a book . Convincing our view its about flogging a book . Convincing our view its about Floa Ii a book . ,. ,. , flogging a book . To the more serious oint about flogging a book . To the more serious point about saying flogging a book . To the more serious point about saying we flogging a book . To the more serious point about saying we should flogging a book . To the more serious point about saying we should leave i point about saying we should leave the echr, i personally think Human Rights are great, i dont believe they are the reason we are having more numbers come through in these irregular roots, the problems that have been put under the slogan stop the boats. I know thats the only plate im sorry to say the conservative party have at the moment is to try to make everything a problem with immigration and everything about Lefty Lawyers getting involved and ruin it. I tariff getting involved and ruin it. I will Cive Ou getting involved and ruin it. I will give you time getting involved and ruin it. I will give you time at getting involved and ruin it. I will give you time at the getting involved and ruin it. I will give you time at The End getting involved and ruin it. I will give you time at The End to come back but in the interest of trying to move on, i promise to give you time to have a discussion at The End. Thank you. The Family Solicitor in the missing Mum Case which gripped the news has called for a Clean Up of Social Media. Nicola bulley vanished early last year whilst out walking her dog by a river in lancashire. Her partner said the national obsession which followed became a monster as Amateur Sleuths trolled the family and police. Nicolas body was found weeks later near the spot she went missing and an inquest ruled shed died due to accidental drowning. The Family Solicitor neil hudgell� s been speaking exclusively to victoria. She began by asking him how the family coped surrounding nicolas disappearance. I think its difficult for them because they are just an ordinaryfamily. Still difficult, still coming to terms with it. But how to come to terms with a normal mum that goes out in the morning, drop the kids off at school, takes the dog for a walk around the local field, gets on a teams call at work, does ordinary things, and doesnt come home . Nicolas disappearance drew random people, particularly on tiktok, and those random people started coming up with their own inaccurate, misleading theories about what had happened to Nicola Bulley. In the documentary, paul, Nicolas Husband, describes Social Media as a huge monster, doesnt he . I think its fair to reflect on the fact that Social Media has a place. I think here, it has just gone beyond its rightful place and has actually gone on and caused significant harm. Very often in circumstances i think where people may have been good intentioned but have not actually reflected on and understood what that harm might be. You use the phrase significant harm, it caused the family significant harm. What did that look like for them . How did it manifest itself . How were they impacted . There was obviously the Intrusion Of Sleuths at the scene, outside the school, directly messaging members of the family. You know, the Documentary Talks about paul getting some horrific messages. I think the wider picture is this, really, and again, it is conveyed very well within the documentary, is that the family were clinging to hope, hope that nicola may have been abducted, hope that there is potentially some other explanation other than she fell in the river. Because the family would buy into the idea that some of these wilder theories actually may have a crumb of truth about them. To sort of cling onto the hope that nicola may walk back through the door. I think for them, its very much still one day at a time. Missing a much loved partner, daughter, mum. Again, i think the documentary captures the Human Impact of it fabulously. Ernie, nicolas dad, talks about the portrait at the top of the stairs. The portrait of nicola, yeah. He says that the eyes follow him everywhere. What do you remember about those days . Those online sleuths on tiktok . J days . Those online sleuths on tiktok . , �. , ~ tiktok . I dont really use tiktok but what i tiktok . I dont really use tiktok but what i do tiktok . I dont really use tiktok but what i do remember tiktok . I dont really use tiktok but what i do remember it tiktok . I dont really use tiktok but what i do remember it was L Tiktok . I dont really use tiktok but what i do remember it was being very concerned about how people were usin very concerned about how people were using this very concerned about how people were using this very tragic case to somehow using this very tragic case to somehow get more likes and followers and really. Somehow get more likes and followers and really, really strange things, going and really, really strange things, going to and really, really strange things, going to visit certain parts of the place going to visit certain parts of the place where she was being looked for and looking really silly videos. We should and looking really silly videos. We should all and looking really silly videos. We should all be quite ashamed, to be honest. Should all be quite ashamed, to be honest, that in this day and age, people honest, that in this day and age, people feel like its more important to do people feel like its more important to do things like that than to be responsible with their actions. It responsible with their actions. [it is responsible with their actions. It is monetised as well, clicks are cash, so is regulation likely or Will Itjust be more concern without rules . , Will Itjust be more concern without rules . U,. ,. Will itjust be more concern without rules . ,. Will itjust be more concern without rules . , rules . Ofcom does have some powers but its all responsive rules . Ofcom does have some powers but its all responsive so rules . Ofcom does have some powers but its all responsive so after rules . Ofcom does have some powers but its all responsive so after the but its all responsive so after the fact. I would love to see something thats a bit more hands on and what would it look like to have Social Media platforms be regulated, sorry, audited regularly so we can check whether their algorithms are continually pushing misinformation or ultimately a malicious and harmful Content Conduct but lets get ahead of this because this phenomena, the True Crime Situation where everyone there that main character, its not going away. The big challenge for us, the more resource big challenge for us, the more Resource We Pudding towards trying to i Resource We Pudding towards trying to T Guess Resource We Pudding towards trying to i guess manage bad behaviour ontine, to i guess manage bad behaviour online, the to i guess manage bad behaviour online, the less we can invest, or it feel online, the less we can invest, or it feel the online, the less we can invest, or it feel the less we can invest in may it feel the less we can invest in may be dealing with traditional forms of may be dealing with traditional forms of crime. The may be dealing with traditional forms of crime. May be dealing with traditional forms of crime. The thing is, the laws were forms of crime. The thing is, the laws were changed forms of crime. The thing is, the laws were changed to forms of crime. The thing is, the laws were changed to Jail Forms of crime. The thing is, the laws were changed to jail People J laws were changed to jail people stoked the right and the existing to be for the press or police. Its a combination of all these in the documentary, Nicolas Husband says that wasnt the wording hed agreed. He said hed agreed the use of the phrase private medical history. Is that what happened . Is that what happened . The family are very keen the family are very keen that this isnt an exercise that this isnt an exercise in bashing the police. In bashing the police. I think that they would be very i think that they would be very complementary and i think it comes complementary and i think it comes out in the documentary, out in the documentary, to some extent, about to some extent, about the investigative skills the investigative skills of the police on the ground. Of the police on the ground. I think they obviously reflect i think they obviously reflect on the fact that the police got it on the fact that the police got it right, their hypothesis was right. Right, their hypothesis was right. They would be very glowing about the relationship with the Family Liaison officers. With the Family Liaison officers. So, in an age where its very easy to be critical of the police, there are some really positive there are some really positive things to say about things to say about them in this case. Them in this case. And i think they also need and i think they also need to reflect on the unique to reflect on the unique circumstances of this matter. Circumstances of this matter. To a point where theres and clearly they would have been and clearly they would have been trying to react to a Feeding Frenzy that was growing and growing, so when there was speculation about police visits in early january to the house, mentioning Mental Health issues, mention later of alcohol, trying to react to a Feeding Frenzy they went out of their way to try and dispel, those rumours. But as they say in the documentary, with hindsight, it probably didnt unfold as it should have done. By using this vague phrase, specific vulnerabilities, actually it led to more speculation . Exactly. So it sort of set the hare racing. And then theyve doubled down on it by coming out two hours later and start to try and explain that you know, that these personal, intimate, private medical details about Nicola Bulley and the family didnt give their permission for the police to release that information. I suspect there was a bit of panic within the police. Its not for me to justify that. Its very much for them to say what was in their thinking at the time. Certainly i think most people were horrified by the actual intimate details that were disclosed. So, in terms of the Familys Point of view, that statement with those personal details about Nicola Bulley was a mistake . It was a mistake, i think its fair to say that it was a part of the drive to correct the narrative, for people to understand the real nicola. That clarification from lancashire police, did that also and if you want to carry on watching newsnight, please turn over to Bbc Two or watch on iplayer. Do stay with us here on Bbc News for all the latest headlines in the us and Around The World from the team here in washington. Im Sumi Somaskanda in washington and this is bbc world news america. New strikes are reported in beirut, as israel extends its evacuation warnings. A senior leader of hamas, classified as a Terrorist Organisation by the uk and us, speaks to international editorjeremy bowen. President biden tours more destruction from hurricane helene, as the Death Toll rises. And later on in the programme, the uk gives up control of the Chagos Islands its last African Colony but the us and uk retain control of their Military Base. Welcome to world news america. We start with Breaking News of israeli Air Strikes in the lebanese capital, beirut, reportedly close to the airport. We have these pictures to show you you can see massive explosions lighting up the sky. These images coming in the last 30 minutes. The idf has just commented on the strikes, saying they were targeting a senior hezbollah official. The Reuters News Agency reported seeing a Plane Land minutes earlier at the Beirut Airport nearby. The Reuters News were also following another developing story in the region, in the occupied West Bank. An israeli Air Strike on a Refugee Camp on thursday is reported to have killed at least iii people. The idf confirmed in a statement that it had carried out a strike in the Tulkarm Region and has just updated to say the strike killed a Hamas Commander they believe was resonsible for planning a number of attacks. Video shows a chaotic scene with people gathered outside a hospital and bodies being carried into the facility, after what palestinian officials said was a strike on a Refugee Camp. Violence has surged in the West Bank since the start of the war in gaza