Really sunny on the channel coast, East Anglia and into lincolnshire. Most of the North Sea Coast as well. The wind will change direction, by saturday they will come in from the south west. Through sunday, the milder air will have established itself across the uk, so temperatures once start to nudge up to about 20 or so. Some of us will pay for it, in the South Westerly is we often get Weather Fronts so there will be a few showers on sunday, not everywhere, and certainly some sunny spells. 18 in belfast once again, 17 in aberdeen. To the east of the pennines, not far off 20 celsius. High pressure expected to build across the uk on monday, which means Light Winds, prolonged spells of sunshine, which are expected to last for the days ahead. Monday, tuesday, wednesday across the bulk of the uk, bright and fairly warm. Goodbye. Welcome to hardtalk. Im stephen sackur. When israel fires missiles on gaza, it describes them as precision strikes aimed at hamas targets. What results is often catastrophic loss of life. It is beyond dispute that many of those killed are civilians. The toll on humanitarian relief workers is rising, too. In Central Gaza on wednesday, six un Relief Agency Staff were killed in an israeli strike on a school turned into an Emergency Shelter for thousands of people. Unrwas own Death Count is over 220. My guest is Commissioner General of unwra, philippe lazzarini. Is his agencys mission now impossible . Philippe lazzarini, welcome to hardtalk. Thank you, stephen. You run the unwra relief agency. You have 13,000 staff inside gaza. You currently are not able to visit gaza. What is it like when you hear that, as yesterday, wednesday, six members of your staff have been killed in an israeli Bomb Attack . This is always absolutely devastating. Yesterday i was boarding the plane coming from cairo to london, when i heard the news. And this happened in a school which was also sheltering at that time 12,000 people. And they are in this school because they still believe that the united Nations Flag can protect them. Yesterday, six staff working in the shelter, providing assistance, organising, in fact, the lives of these families, have been killed. Now 220 staff since the beginning of the war. The worst, stephen, is to know that maybe tomorrow we will even have more staff being killed. And the question is, when will this end . Not only staff is being targeted, but we have also the united nations premises. Two thirds of our installations have now been damaged, and more than 500 people have been killed in this installation. You just used the phrase, staff are being targeted, Unwra Staff. The israelis would absolutely and categorically reject that. They say that in this particular case, the strike on the school, they had clear, irrefutable information that hamas was using it as a Command And Control centre, and they took all the measures they could to mitigate the loss of life for those that were not hamas, but were civilians inside the school. Im not aware of all the measures which have been taken. This shelter, which is a school in nuseirat, a few days ago was used for our Polio Vaccination Campaign. It is sheltering 12,000 people. We have united Nations Staff living there. We had absolutely no information before the strike. You had no information, but are you categorically rejecting the israeli statement that hamas was using it as a Command And Control centre . I have absolutely no information. This is an allegation coming from the israelis. I have absolutely no means to verify this information. They go further, the israelis they say that hamas is consistently abusing civilian infrastructure in violation of International Law and they say that time upon time, that involves facilities that belong to unwra. This is not, in their view, an isolated case. I have constantly expressed concern about the use of our facilities. We keep hearing that we have an armed group, palestinian hamas, using ourfacilities. We also hear about the use of our facilities by the israeli army. And i also believe. Sorry, lets go through this piece by piece. You say, we constantly hear. How do you hear that your facilities are being used by palestinian armed militants, by gunmen . I mean, who tells you and what do you do about it . Always through the media, always after an event. Thats when we are receiving the information. We have never, ever received an information ahead of a Military Strike on one of these installations. But doesnt that mean that your staff are not telling you about Hamas Presence inside their facilities . That seems to be a fundamental problem. I do not believe that our staff, if they would know that there is a military operation centre, would dare to stay or to expose themselves in such an installation. How close do you believe you are becoming to concluding that its impossible for unwra to function . I mean, if you are saying to me that, yeah, we get reports that hamas has been using our facilities for their own purposes, but theres not much we can do about it, and you know that the israelis, if they find hamas operatives in your facilities, will then strike those facilities, it seems to me you must be coming close to a point where you cant operate. Stephen, i did not say we are getting reports that they are operating in our installation. What i said is, each time there has been a strike in one of our installations, we hear the justification that there might have been an hamas or a military Cell Operating from there. We have absolutely no means at this stage to investigate, and this is the reason why i keep constantly, because of this blatant disregard of the un installation, that we need to have an independent investigation. But just to my point about, in the current circumstances, whether you have to consider whether it is safe both for your own staff and for the people who are using your facilities for you to continue operations are you having to consider that . We have. We are on a daily basis asking the question about, how far can we go with the operation . What can we continue to do . But lets see what happened over the last two weeks. We have succeeded with partners to roll out a massive Polio Vaccination Campaign in the south, in the middle region and also in the north, which means that despite the dangerosity of the environment where we operate, we still can provide critical assistance to the population. And one of the reasons is because our staff is also part of the population we are providing support. Now, as we are talking to each other, i am getting information, because this is real time, people will be watching it in a recording, but in real time, im getting information that the idf, the israeli military, are now saying they have evidence that nine people killed in the school were hamas operatives. They seem to believe that some of your staff were amongst those hamas operatives. You have already said to me its impossible for us to know whether hamas is operating, but you would certainly surely know if some of your staff were hamas operatives. Again, this is an information that we have not received. You might recall in the past, there have been allegations about 19 staff of the unrwa who allegedly might have participated to the horrendous attack of October 7th. There has been an investigation and the investigation did not end up conclusive. We have also received later on a letter from the israeli authorities about 100 staff, allegedly members of the hamas, and i have immediately told them, i take this allegation seriously, can you help us to look into it . So far, we havent received any response. I mean, its a profound problem for you right now, isnt it, that israel clearly doesnt see unwra as a good faith actor, as a neutral player in gaza . I think the profound problem goes beyond that, stephen. There is a deliberate attempt to eliminate and to dismantle The Agency, and the real reason behind this has nothing to do with neutrality issues. There are political considerations behind it. Ultimately, there is a desire to strip the palestinians from the Refugee Stature and beyond that also to undermine the future aspirations of the palestinians for self determination. And thats the reason why unwra has become such a target. Sorry. I really again want to be clear what youre saying. You are saying that there is an intent, as far as you see it, on the part of israel, to what, destroy unwra . Yes. And we heard it from the beginning of the war, that one of the objectives of the war ultimately will also to be to dismantle unwra. We have seen also politically, but also legislatively, the effort taking place in israel about trying to label The Agency as a Terrorist Organisation and also to expel The Agency from any territory under the control of israel. So there is a deliberate objective to dismantle the organisation. But, of course, you know, the israelis would say time and again, this isnt about unwra, its about hamas being allowed to use unwra facilities, or indeed further, its about hamas having infiltrated unwra and actually recruited Unwra Staff to their cause. And they would point, for example, to the evidence that they have over the last few months collated suggesting that Unwra Staff were involved in the atrocious October 7th attack. And you know as well as i do, after your investigations, that you came up ultimately with nine individuals within your staff who were fired because you believed that there was convincing evidence they had been part of hamas� s operation. Well, stephen, there have been two processes. One has been an investigation about the Neutrality Policy of the organisation. And well get to that, thats the investigation undertaken by the french former foreign minister Catherine Colonna. Exactly. And well get to her conclusions in a minute. But there was also an internal investigation to assess the validity of israels claim that first it was 12, but then 19 individuals had been involved in October 7 and were part of the Unwra Staff. As i put it to you again, there is compelling evidence that some individuals were involved. I mean, theres one particular case which has been explored by the Washington Post and others, where an individual who is an Unwra Staff member was captured on video in be� eri, one of the settlements that was attacked on October 7th, standing over the dead body of an israeli citizen. That body was then put into a car and driven off. Now, all of that is an allegation, but it is a convincing allegation based on facial recognition and other investigation detail. Youve had to come to terms with that. Are you prepared to accept that that happened . So, stephen, from day one, when i received the allegation, because of the severity of this allegation and because the idea that staff might have participated is so horrible on the October 7th massacre, i have taken a series of measures. The first one was to dismiss the staff, but the second one is the investigation that you are referring to. The outcome of this investigation is not as conclusive as we would have liked to have. They said, indeed, we have no evidence for ten people, but for the nine we might have, if we are in a position to authenticate the information. So there have been a lot of Conditionality And None came to a formal conclusion. Having said that, despite that, we have maintained the dismissal of the staff, and among the ten, no one has been yet reinstated at the exception of one staff member, because we are still looking at other allegations about possible participation in armed groups. You panicked, didnt you, when these allegations first came out because you fired, i think, was it 12 people, with no Due Process at all . As soon as the israelis made the initial allegation, you fired these Staff Members and you said you did it because you were so worried about the reputation of The Agency and believed that your ability to deliver critical humanitarian assistance was at stake if i didnt take the decision to fire. Now that youre telling me its all very unclear and the evidence is not in any way conclusive, do you regret your own reaction . I dont regret, and if i would have to take a decision, i would definitely take a similar decision today. It was in the best interest of The Agency, and, thanks to all the measures we have taken, we have also been able to restore the confidence of our partners and the donors. You also talked to me about the Catherine Colonna investigation, which was about the wider question of neutrality within unwra, the degree to which unwra could be regarded as an objective, impartial actor on the ground in the gaza strip. She concluded that unwra quote, must do more to improve its neutrality, its staff vetting, and its tra nsparency. She also concluded there was a problem with some of the educational textbooks that unwra allows to be used in gazas classrooms, which she says contain objectionable content. She says, although they are relatively marginal, these issues constitute a Grave Violation of unrwas neutrality. Thats not good, is it . Well, to start with, stephen, the first conclusion of Catherine Colonna report was to say that unwra, as an agency, has system much more robust than the average of any other Un Agency or international Organisation Operating in the region. But, because of the specificity of The Agency, its footprint and the complex environment we are operating in, which is also divided and very emotional, much more can be done. And she has proposed a certain number of recommendations that both the Secretary General and myself have immediately embraced. Many of these recommendations The Agency can implement alone, but other recommendations will require the support of member states, donors, but also of host country. Some countries restored funding after the Colonna Report came out, the united states didnt having suspended it after israels initial accusations concerning October 7th. That means that youre short of, what is it, roughly 450 Million a year that the united states gives to unwra. Given all of the vast need in gaza, how close to running out of money are you . Well, we still have a shortfall between now and the end of the year. Im still confident that we will be able to bridge the gap, and i hope that the united states will resume its funding next year. For the time being, it is suspended at least until march 2025. Now, the united states has been our main donors, but it is true also that we had new countries who have contributed to The Agency, and, in addition of that, we had an exceptional generosity of private donors. Since October 7th, we raised 150 Million usdjust from private donations. In terms of the situation on the ground, we know that, what, 90 of gazans have been displaced from their homes. We know that hunger is rampant across the gaza strip. Are you able to get the supplies in that you need to get in right now . And if not, whos blocking them . For the time being, we do not have the supply we would like to have. The humanitarian situation in gaza has worsened month after month since the beginning of this war. As you said, people are facing diseases, are facing hunger, are facing death, and now they are concentrated in a portion which represent only 10 of the gaza strip. The supply in average today, we have about 50 trucks coming in. If we are not in a position in the near future to substantially again increase, we will again be confronted to a situation where we will draw the alarm about possible looming hunger. You in the past have used some extremely compelling language about the situation, youve called gaza hell. Youve described it as a war on children, given the scale of Child Death in gaza. Youve suggested that what you see before you objectively looks like violation of International Law, given the scale of the killing and the injury of civilians. Do you want to see accountability for the crimes committed, if you believe they are crimes in gaza, and do you think that accountability is going to come, because youve talked an awful lot about accountability . I really hope there will be accountability. I do believe that the International Humanitarian Law and the Geneva Convention have been blatantly disregarded. It has almost become banal, normalised to disregard International Humanitarian Law. And if we let this continue, my fear is that it will become irrelevant. There is one thing, stephen, ijust come back from cairo, in the region they have the feeling that there is a double standard in the application of International Humanitarian Law it should be applied everywhere in the world, except in the context of israel palestine. So, yes, i do believe we need accountability. I do believe that we will need for most of the crimes we have observed, an independent Investigation Commission and those responsible will have to be made accountable. In your opinion, is it a violation of International Law for israel to bomb your unwra facilities, even if they have compelling evidence of the existence, the presence of hamas gunmen inside . If you have thousands of civilian and families sheltering in un compound, and if israel has evidence that they are hamas operatives being present and being a target, they should take the necessary precaution to prevent a large Death Toll among the civilians. So, yes, most of the time people are just informed at the last minute and then we hear all the precautions have been taken, which is absolutely not the case. What about the West Bank . Because unrwas operations go far beyond gaza, they go to the neighbouring countries, but you have a major operation inside the West Bank. In recent days, weve seen israeli Military Operations expand in their Scope And Intensity across the West Bank. To what extent do you fear that the devastation and the loss of life that we have seen over the last 11 months in gaza could be coming to the West Bank . Im very concerned about this. The war of gaza is now spreading to the West Bank. If there wouldnt be a war in gaza, all our attention would be on the West Bank. There is a kind of a silent War Boiling in the West Bank. And we have seen recently the operations which have taken Place Injenin and tulkarem, security operations, which in reality has inflicted large Scale Destruction and damages on the infrastructure, but also on the population living in the camps. So you have a similar pattern. And we have also seen the use recently of drones for strikes in in the West Bank, which is also a new trend. You are a sticking Plaster Agency really, arent you . I mean, there is Nothing Unwra can do except try to maintain some sort of baseline humanitarian support for palestinians in the Refugee Camps in gaza, in the West Bank, but the situation around you is getting worse and worse. To what extent do you fear that in the end your Sticking Plaster is going to become irrelevant, that it is going to become, particularly in gaza, unliveable for the civilian population in that territory . I wouldnt say that we are becoming irrelevant, but we might be in a situation where operating is becoming more and more difficult, which is already the case, by the way, in gaza and in the West Bank. We cannot deploy all the activity traditionally an agency like ours are providing to the population. Now my Fear Today is education. We have today 600,000 girls and boys living in the rubble in gaza, deeply traumatised, who havent been at school for one year. According to a study from cambridge university, they have already lost two years and the more we will wait, the more we are sowing the seeds for more revenge, resentment and extremism. And hence, if you get rid of an organisation like ours today, who will step in and provide education at scale to such a number of youths . Have you ever felt bleaker than you feel today . I feel definitely bleak and grim. It keeps me, whats going on keeps me awake every day, every night. I always wonder if it is worse. But i do believe that, in my function, i have to continue to convey The Voice of the palestinian in gaza, The Voice of the palestinian refugees, because if i wouldnt do it, who else would do it . So, yes, ifeel bleak, ifeel grim, but thats not important. Philippe lazzarini, we have to end there, thank you forjoining me on hardtalk. Thank you, stephen. Hello. A cold friday morning. It is going to feel fresh once you step out of that front door. In fact, A Touch Of Frost possible almost anywhere in the uk. Certainly a Ground Frost and even an Air Frost in some areas. Now, from the motion of the cloud, you get a sense of where the air has come from. In fact, all the way from the arctic and its spread across many parts of western and even central europe. But High Pressure is now building across the uk. That means Light Winds and lots of Sunshine Right from the word go. And of course, Clear Skies through the early hours. Just one or two showers, maybe clipping eastern and western coasts. Now these are the City Centre temperatures, so right in the middle. Look at that. Three degrees in birmingham you go out of town. Itll be three degrees lower than that. So hence an Air Frost in some areas and possibly as low as 1 Or 2 across Northern England and scotland, away from City Centres. So lots of Sunshine Right from the word go. Clouds will bubble up a little bit through the morning into the afternoon. Those scattered fair Weather Cumulus clouds. Highs of around 15 degrees typically. Now later in the day, it does look as though it will turn hazy in Northern Ireland and also scotland. And that takes us into saturday a Weather Front brushing the North West of the uk, so the possibility of some rain later on. But the further East And South you are, the brighter it will be and actually really sunny along the channel coast. East anglia and also into lincolnshire. Most of the North Sea Coast as well. The winds will change direction by the time we get to saturday. Theyll start to come in from the southwest. In fact, through sunday that milder air will have established itself across the uk, so temperatures once again start to nudge up to about 20 or so. But some of us will have to pay for it. In southwesterlies we often get Weather Fronts, so there will be a few showers around on sunday. Not everywhere, but certainly some sunny spells in the forecast too. So here are the temperatures 18 in belfast once again, 17 in aberdeen, and you can see to the east of the pennines, not far off 20 celsius. High pressure is expected to build across the uk on monday. That means Light Winds, prolonged spells of sunshine which are expected to last for the days ahead. And in fact, look at that monday, tuesday, wednesday across the bulk of the uk, bright and fairly warm. Bye. Welcome to newsday, reporting live from singapore, im katie silver. The headlines. President putin says the west will be in direct conflict with russia if it allows ukraine to strike russian territory with western made long range missiles. Donald trump is not taking part in a second president ial debate against his democratic rival kamala harris. Its another small step, as a Billionaire Businessman becomes the first non professional astronaut to walk in space. From here, earth sure looks like a perfect world. A Football Competition has captured the attention of an entire nation. And Taylor Swift sweeps up at the Video Music awards, becoming the most decorated solo artist in the ceremony� s history. Hello and thanks for joining us on bbc news. President putin says the us and European Countries will be directly participating in Moscows Conflict with ukraine if they lift restrictions on kyiv using long range missiles to strike russian territory. He said this would change the nature of the conflict,