To change the country. Speaking to sunday with laura kuenssberg, and in his first major interview in number 10, Sir Keir Starmer said it was vital to do difficult things now such as the cuts to pensioners� Winter Fuel payments, and not run away from hard choices, which he accused previous governments of doing. Have a listen. It was a really important moment because it was a moment of great change for the country, change for me and my family, but the chance to do what i came into politics to do. I came into politics relatively late in life. I came in with a clear intention to change the country for the better. Its really hard to do that from opposition. So, when we were able to win the election with a good mandate for change, and come in here to the Cabinet Room and sit down for the first time as a team, it was a really important moment, a moment of change and the beginning of the next stage of the journey for the country, which is very, very important. Did you have to pinch yourself at all . Well, you do. You know, as you walk in the door, as i walked for the first time, as you know, i walked up downing street. Lots of people there, friends, supporters, People Id known a long time. Then stood with vic at the door. The door opens and you walk in. And that is the moment that i think i really took it in that, you know, weve got the chance to change the country, we own all the problems, of course, but actually, the hard work was able to start then. What you couldnt know on the morning that you walked through is that, for days through the summer, there was a series of riots in 20 towns and cities across oui country. On friday, a man called thomas birley, who was part of a group that attacked a Hotel Housing Asylum seekers, who was described as having a white supremacist mindset, was given the longest sentence so far over 1,000 people have been arrested over this. You said the riots showed there was a societal Black Hole. What did you mean by that . What i meant by that was that the riots, i think, were symbolic of a broken society. Now, im not going to justify for one minute the violence in those riots. They are not capable of justification. They were not protest. They were far right in the main. But underneath that, i think there was a societal Black Hole, a breaking of our society, which we need to mend. The immediate problem was to regain control of the situation, to make sure we had enough police across the country to police on the front line, to make sure we had prosecutors and courts able to process the cases and get people sentenced very quickly. I was really clear that we needed to ensure that if somebody was throwing a rock, a plank, or trying to set fire to a hotel on a saturday or a sunday night, within a week, they ought to be starting a prison sentence. And by and large, difficult though that was, we managed to achieve that, which i think played a big part in bringing order to what was a very dangerous situation. That attempt to set fire to a hotel in rotherham with People Inside was particularly chilling. But do you think the rioters were racists . I think the far right. I think there was racism there. I think it featured differently across the country. I went over to belfast, for example, to talk to the Police Service of Northern Ireland who had Petrol Bombs thrown at them. And theres No Doubt there was racism there. So, there was racism, far right, but it was totally illegitimate. It is not acceptable in any society. And, yes, i accept that across the country people have strong views about things like immigration. I accept that, but im not prepared to tolerate that sort of disorder under any circumstances. Nor will i change Government Policy one bit as a result of that sort of violence. Do you think were a racist country . I dont think were a racist country. I think were a country of decent people, tolerant people. The Real Britain was the people who came out the day after. In southport, it was incredible. People came out with their trowels, with their brooms. They cleaned up, they rebuilt. Theyre the real face of britain. And thats the britain that i think is essential to reuniting and bringing this country back together. But do you think that leaders in this country. Perhaps also if you look at what weve seen in germany, also look at whats happened in france, do you think that leaders have been complacent about the rise of the far right . I am worried about the rise of the far right. I mean, we can see whats happening in germany with the recent elections, see whats happening in france and other countries. And im worried about the far right because its the sort of Snake Oil of the easy answer. Im convinced that the answer to it is delivery in government. So, the best argument against the far right, the best argument against the easy answer is to deliver, to bring about the change that we promised wed bring about. And that change was to improve living standards, so people are better off, to make sure that weve got properly functioning public services, particularly the nhs, and to deal with issues like immigration and crime and sewage. We have to deliver on that. And thats why im utterly focused on ensuring we can bring about that change in the period that weve got in government. Talking, though, about people feeling great discontent with the state of this country, many of our viewers will have been appalled notjust by seeing the publication of the report into the Grenfell Fire this week, but also very distressed that, years later, there are still people living in unsafe buildings, many of whom might be watching this morning. Can you tell people who cannot right now sleep easy in their beds when they will have their homes made safe . First, i accept its my duty, duty of this Government And Everybody in a position of responsibility, to make sure they are safe in their home. We will accelerate the programme im frustrated that its going as slowly as it is to deal with the cladding. A lot of that is to find sort of true responsibility and to hold people to account for getting on with the job. The money is there. The intention is there. We need to move more quickly on it. So, by when will people who are watching this, who are living in blocks that are unsafe, will they be able to sleep easy in their beds without the fear of a Cladding Fire . Were speeding up the process. I want to get this done as quickly as possible. Each block will be on a different timetable. Im not able to give you an end date, but i can tell you i meant what i said when i responded to the report. I said, this has to be a turning point. It does, and we need to speed that up and get on with it. Forgive me, Prime Minister. During the election campaign, you made great play of how ready you were, how much preparation you had done, how much you were going to walk in this building and get things done. And then today you cant give us a date, a deadline, which is what people want to know. When will they be able to sleep easy in their beds . It is years since the Grenfell Fire. It is years that you had in opposition. Everybody knew this was coming. You cannot be surprised by what this report has come outwith. And this is about people who are, as of this moment, not safe in their own homes. Well, let me acknowledge that this has taken far too long. Seven years. This is not unique. Weve had no end of injustices that have taken very many years to come to any sort of outcome. And this is not the final outcome. But you are in charge now. Why cant you give people a date . I accept that, and what comes with being in charge is responsibility. The responsibility to make sure this happens as soon as possible. The first thing that therefore needs to happen, and the deputy Prime Minister is doing this, is going through the books, going through the buildings, identifying where work has been done, where work hasnt been done, whos responsible, and putting in a place to make sure that we can accelerate that as quickly as possible. That work is ongoing. You cant do that in opposition because you simply dont have access to the material. But were on it, were working at pace, and we will bring the same mindset to this as i brought to the disorder, which is get people around the table, make the ask of them. Well, with the disorder, you said you wanted everybody in court within a week. You know, you are the Prime Minister now. Some people would want you to hear. To hear you say, you know what . In a year, everybody will be safe. In two years, everybody will be safe. Whats your ambition on this . Because for years, people, victims of grenfell, their families and people who are in unsafe blocks have heard politicians, for years, promise that they were going to speed it up, promise that they were going to accelerate it. Its exactly the kind of frustration that you yourself say youve heard and you understand. And yet here you are today unable to give them a firm promise. Well, im not going to give a false promise. I think there have been too many of those in the last 14 years where people have given numbers and dates which theyve plucked from the sky, which are not meaningful. Im not going to do that. I know that the work is going on to identify what blocks Need Work on, how we accelerate it. The money has been allocated. A lot of this now is identifying and pushing those who are really responsible to do this to do the work that they are required to do. If we need more powers to do that, well pass those powers. Would you like to see people in jail because of what happened at grenfell . The last thing i want to do is to prejudice any possible cases. Of course, i want the police to complete their investigations and well give them all the support that they need, and appropriate cases should go through to court. But the worst thing i could do, or anybody could do, for the families, of the bereaved, the survivors, the community, the worst thing we could do is to say or do anything which would prejudice the outcome of any proceedings, including criminal proceedings. Its been a very eventful few months already. One of the decisions also that has attracted huge amount of attention and has very much upset some of our viewers is your decision to remove Winter Fuel allowance from the majority of pensioners. As you know, our viewers like to give us questions for politicians. And ray, who voted for you, wrote in to say, i thought i might regret my vote within a year. I certainly didnt think i would regret it by the first decision made by the new government to attack the pensioners, those in this country Who Cannot Go On to strike to show our disgust. What do you say to ray, who voted for you and feels terribly let down by this decision . What i say to ray, and to many people who will have concerns who are watching this and listening to this, is that we were voted in to office to bring about change, to make sure we improve living standards, make people feel better off, to improve public services. Nobody thought they were voting for you to take away their Winter Fuel allowance. To deal with crime, deal with immigration and issues like that. I am absolutely clear in my own mind that we cant bring about that change if we dont fix the fundamentals and stabilise our economy. Im absolutely clear, in the same way, laura, as i was four, five years ago when you were interviewing me, and i said, in order for labour to win an election, we have to change the Labour Party. Equally clear in my mind, in order to deliver the change, which we will deliver, we have to fix the foundations now, and thats tough decisions. The first thing we did, the first thing the chancellor did when she walked through the door next door, was to audit the books. What she found was a £22 BillionBlack Hole this year. Now, she had a choice. Pretend it isnt there, walk past it, or deal with it. Now i just want to. We said we were going to deal with it. I just want to stop you there. So we have to take tough decisions. I just want to stop you there. On that 22 Billion, i want everybody watching this to know and understand that nearly half of that 22 Billion £9 billion comes from decisions that your government has made to give many public sector workers pay rises above inflation, including Junior Doctors getting 22 of an increase over two years. So, again, when it comes to Winter Fuel allowance, that was a choice. It was a political decision, for the reasons that you say, you want to sort out the economy, but how can you justify it to viewers who feel like it is an attack on some people whove worked hard all their lives . Theyre not wealthy, they dont have money to spare. And this year, if its cold, theyre going to be looking at the thermostat and wondering if they can pay their bills. Let me take that head on because its a really important point. The last government set up the Pay Review mechanism, as every government does every year, and they set the framework for that. And they knew that the Pay Review recommendations would come back. What they didnt do was allocate any money at all to the outcome. Now, that is not a good way to approach pay settlements. Of course, there was a number allocated. Theyjust didnt put it on the books. Can i deal with the second point . Because i think it is important, on winterfuel allowance, this is really tough and i do get that its tough. Its not easy, and no Prime Minister wants to take a decision like this. But the Winter Fuel payments are now to be targeted. They were untargeted before, and i think everybody thought that wasnt a particularly good system, so it needed to be targeted. 0bviously those most in need will continue to get the payment. All of those on Pension Credit will get the payment, and we want to get as many people onto Pension Credit as we can. We want to align Housing Benefit with Pension Credit, something that wasnt done by the last government, which will improve the situation. And of course, this is really important, by ensuring were fixing the foundations, by ensuring weve got economic stability, something thats been missing for the last few years, we can absolutely commit, and we do, to the triple lock. And what that means, laura, which is really important, is that the increase in the State Pension will outstrip any loss for pensioners of the Winter Fuel payment. So that is really, really important. Pensioners like everybody else have been living with inflation. But weve still got other things to talk about. But i just want to briefly ask. But laura, i mean, what you say there is really important because talking to many pensioners in the last two or three years, the things that have hit them most and hardest are inflation, because it got out of control in the last government, energy bills, because the steps that were needed to be taken years ago werent taken, and the cost of living. Im determined that no pensioner will ever be put through that before. Thats why were fixing the foundations now, tough though that may be. And for some of your mps the decision is too tough. Some of them are deeply worried about it. If a Labour Mp votes against you this week when Winter Fuel is debated in the house of commons, will you suspend them or kick them out of the party . Well, that will be a matter for the Chief Whip and well assess that. You must have a view. Were going into a vote. Im glad were having a vote, because i think its very important for parliament to speak on this. But every Labour Mp was elected in on the same mandate as i was, which would deliver the change that we need for the country over the time weve got in office. I am absolutely convinced that we will only deliver that change, im absolutely determined we will, if we do the difficult things now. I know theyre unpopular, i know theyre difficult, of course theyre tough choices. But its a bit like, i dont know, building a house. If you know your foundations are rotten, if you know youve got damp or cracks, you can paint over it and pretend that youve got a beautiful new house, and within six months it all falls apart. Or you can say, were going to strip it down, were going to fix the foundations. And what then will happen . This is where the hope is there. What then happens is youve got a much better house at The End of the exercise, a country built to last. And thats what im determined were going to bring about in the time that weve got in office. I know theres a note there. You said, you know, its unpopular. Are you willing to be unpopular . Were going to have to be unpopular. Tough decisions are tough decisions. Popular decisions arent tough, theyre easy. When we talk about tough decisions, im talking about tough decisions, the things the last government ran away from, that governments traditionally run away from. Im convinced that because theyve run away from difficult decisions, we havent got the change we need for the country. And because im so determined to bring about that change, ill do the tough things and ill do them early to make sure that we can bring about the change that we need. So im not going to apologise for this, but i do recognise how difficult it is for some people. I do recognise for pensioners its really hard, for some pensioners here, but of course they do rely on the nhs, they do rely on public transport, so these things arent completely divorced. And with the triple lock, what i can guarantee for the State Pension is that the increase under this government will outstrip any reduction in the Winter Fuel payment. You mentioned the nhs there. Now, your government asked lord darzi, a very eminent surgeon, to look quickly into what was really going on in the nhs. The reports coming out this thursday, but can you share any of what he has found already . Yes, ican. I asked him, hes an eminent surgeon, huge experience, i asked him to do a raw and honest assessment of the nhs, a diagnosis if you like. Hes been really clear that the nhs is broken but not beaten. And the reason he identifies, just to rattle through them without spending much time on them, is because of the money that was taken out of the nhs, particularly in the early years of the coalition, 2010 onwards. The lansley reforms, which were hopelessly misconceived, took a lot of money and had to be then reversed. And then, of course, covid on top of all that which has put us in this awful position for the nhs. His diagnosis, my conclusion is, the only way out of this now is reform. I think only a Labour Government can reform the nhs, and therefore we will use his diagnosis as the platform for the reform that we now need to carry out in relation to the nhs. I promised wed get the nhs on its feet again, but i also promised id make It Fit for the future. And this is the diagnosis, if you like, the platform that allows us to properly understand the state of the nhs and why its in that place, but also when it comes to technology, when it comes to empowering gps and preventative measures, to look at how were now going to reform the nhs so that we can not just look proudly. The Labour Party always looks back proudly and says we created the Nhs 75 Plus years ago, weve had a Fantastic Nhs in many respects. What i want to ensure is that in 75 years, people look back again and say weve still got a Fantastic Nhs because of the work the 2024 Labour Government did. But again, isnt part of this actually quite a clear political strategy . It is going to be another moment when the new government is saying, look, look how terrible things are. Look at our inheritance. Arent you managing peoples expectations . And if its all this doom and gloom, how can you expect people to feel inspired or hopeful about what you might be able to achieve . Well, two things there. Firstly, yes, weve got lord darzis analysis. I dont think anybody watching this is going to be surprised by his conclusion. I dont think theyre going to say, well, when i went to a e, it was perfect, i was in and out in record time. Everybody watching this who has used the nhs or relatives have know that its broken. They know that its broken. That is unforgivable, the state of our nhs. Now, i dont think anybody could say thats sort ofjust us claiming or performative inheritance. If theres one thing this country knows, its the last government broke the nhs. 0urjob now, through lord darzi, is properly understand how that came about and bring about the reforms, starting with the first steps, the 40,000 extra appointments. But weve got to do the hard yards of reform as well. And as i say, i think its only a Labour Government that can do the reform that our nhs needs, and well start on that journey. 0k. Two more things that i want to briefly ask you about. Youre expected to go to the White House next week. Now, its no secret that your decision to suspend some Arms Sales to israel has not gone down very well across the atlantic. It has not made the Uk Government very popular with its closest ally, the united states. Youre wrong about that. So you say the us agrees with it . Weve been talking to the us. Weve been talking to the us beforehand and afterwards. And theyre very clear that theyve got a different legal system and they understand the decision that weve taken. So thats very clear. The reason im actually going and having the visit is not about that at all. Its because the situation in ukraine is becoming ever more pressing, as is the situation in the middle east. Ive obviously had a number of discussions with President Biden, both in person and on the phone, and with other allies, france, germany, italy, nato allies, about the tactical decisions we have to make in relation to ukraine and the middle east. And weve coordinated a lot of our messaging, coordinated our action, as youd expect. But what i also want to have the opportunity is for a more strategic discussion about the next few months in relation to ukraine and in relation to the middle east. So its that more strategic discussion that will be the central focus of the visit next week. You had to defend President Biden when his health was deteriorating. Are you relieved and excited about Kamala Harris as the new nominee . The democrats are your sister party. Well, theyre our sister party. And of course, its, you know, really good to see the election developing as it is in the us. Ill be very clear, as the Prime Minister of the united kingdom, i will deal with whoever the american people elect in as their president. But i think its very important to remember, particularly for ukraine and for the middle east, the next few weeks and months are critically important, and therefore its important for me to speak to President Biden about our shared response, the response of our allies to the pressing immediate issues, but also to the more strategic long term issues. And thats why im going on both of those fronts to have that discussion, ukraine and the middle east. Sounds very much like youre hinting at a significant increase in the level of support for ukraine, or perhaps giving them the explicit permission they want to use some weapons provided by their allies into russia. Well, we have increased the support were giving ukraine since weve been in office. Thats not a criticism of the last government. I supported the last government when i was in opposition, and im not now going to suggest that they didnt put the support in we needed for ukraine. I supported them then, i support what they did. We need to now take this on. Weve put more support in in terms of capability. In relation to specific capabilities, then youll understand im not going to get into a discussion about that on live television. But of course i want to make sure that we give ukraine the support that it needs for as long as it needs it. As you said at the beginning, this is also now your home as well as the seat of government. And our viewers wont forgive me if i dont ask you a couple of questions about that, if i mayjust quickly. One of the things youve done to make it more comfortable is take down the portrait of Margaret Thatcher that was put there by Gordon Brown, a labour Prime Minister. Is that not a bit petty . Was she really making you feel uncomfortable staring down at you in the study . Well, the first thing is Gordon Brown didnt actually hang it in the study. It was hanging somewhere, it was commissioned and was hanging somewhere else. I think it was David Cameron that brought it into the study. I use the study for quietly reading most afternoons, where ive got to have a difficult paper that i need to. And ijust. This is not actually about Margaret Thatcher at all. I dont like images and pictures of people staring down. Ive had it all my life. When i was a lawyer, i used to have sort of Pictures Ofjudges. I dont like it. I like landscapes, so this is my study, its my private place where i go to work. I didnt want a picture of anyone. Its a picture of landscapes. As a lawyer people tried to persuade me that i needed Pictures Ofjudges staring at me the whole time. I didnt like it. I dont like it any more if theyre politicians. There isnt any politician staring at me in my study where i just get on with the work i need to get on with. Its unusual for a politician not to like people looking at them, whether theyre in real life or in portrait form. People have different views. In our house now, in our flat, you wont. You know, some people have their mantelpieces full of pictures of themselves with world leaders. None of that in ours. Not even in the toilet where people traditionally also put it. All ive got is pictures of the kids, the cats now, etc. I might tolerate Thierry Henry on the wall, but thats about as far as i go. And youve gone there with the cats. So weve gone there with the siberian kitten, which has nowjoined the family, called prince. Hello there. So far september has been quite warm and humid with some thundery downpours and some pleasant spells of sunshine. This upcoming week will be a shock to the system, the first real taste of autumn, turning much cooler for all of us, with sunshine and showers, Windy At Times and nights a lot colder. But temperatures will begin recover again as we head into the following weekend. This weekend has been dominated by this thundery low with high humidity, some Heavy Rain and storms. This will slowly ease as it pushes eastwards during the overnight Period Tonight and leaves a legacy of cloud and spots of rain for england and wales. But scotland, Northern Ireland, already signs of Something Cooler and fresher moving in, with clearer skies, so single digits here. But double figures for england and wales. As we head into monday day, we see the Back Edge of that low pressure pull away in towards the near continent. It will bring further cloud, a few spots of rain during Monday Morning but then Skies Brighten up into the afternoon as it slides off into the near continent. Scotland and Northern Ireland sees the next Weather Front moving in, so thicker cloud, some spots of rain later in the day, but further south it should be dry with some sunshine. But already feeling cooler and fresher, 13 to 17 degrees from north to south. Monday night into first thing tuesday, low pressure starts to set into the north of the country, bringing wet and windy weather and some colder air begins to dig in behind it. Further south, still double figures to start tuesday so anotherfairly mild night to come. But it will change from tuesday onwards, behind the cold front, Arctic Air Sinking Southwards as we go through the day and it will be a strong north, North Westerly wind. Unsettled picture for tuesday, this band of rain associated with the cold front, some squally rain as it spreads southwards. Behind it, Skies Brighten up but itll be one of sunshine and blustery showers, these heavy across the North West and very windy for all of us, particularly across the North East of scotland. Factor in these sorts of Wind Speeds with these temperatures, low teens in the north, to around the mid to high teens in the south. It will feel noticeably chilly. It stays chilly throughout the week, temperatures below par for this time of year. Most of the showers in the north. Driest in the South And East but as we head into the following weekend, we start to see temperatures recover back closer to the seasonal norm. Live from london, this is bbc news. An investigation� s under way at one of the worlds most famous childrens hospitals as concerns are raised about a former surgeon. Jordan launches an investigation into the killing of three israelis at a Border Crossing to the occupied west bank. Fleeing venezuela the man many in the west believe won the Countrys President ial election arrives at an airbase near madrid. Sir Keir Starmer tells the bbc his new government is � going to have to be unpopular� if it wants to change the country. The internationally renowed specialist childrens hospital, great 0rmond Street in london, says its carrying out a review of more than 700 patients cases, after concerns were raised about one of its former surgeons, yasarjabber, a consultant orthopaedic surgeon. 0ur CorrespondentNicky Schiller has the story. Great 0rmond Street, which, as you said, is world famous for treating children, says it is looking at 721 patients, all children who had come into contact