Has been done to make the game safe for children. I will spend the rest of my life missing my son. Whistle blows its a bunny hop, not a steeplechase, Go OnGo On, lower, Go On. Thats it, brilliant. For steve sugar, a Rugby Field is where he feels most comfortable. You just love this game, dont you . Yeah, i do love it. I love the game. Ifeel at home here. According to World Rugby, the sports governing body, there are more than Eight Million players worldwide and more than half of them are younger than 13. In 2023, the mens rugby World Cup was broadcast to more than 800 Million across the globe. A lucrative business fuelled by tv money, Sponsorship And Ticket sales. Its not quite the same for the amateur game, which devizes Coach Steve played from 1989 onwards. Tell me about your career, steve, and where you played. Bristol is probably the highest level i played at really, and some england trials as well. Ive just been unfortunate to have a few injuries that have worried me, you know, for three years or 0. What did you first notice . Family names. I would forget, you know, id be like, oh, you know, and id be. And the more Id Think of it, the more frustrated id get. Falling about three, four times a week sometimes, you know, because you just lost your balance. Couldnt explain it. Go to the doctors about it, explain to them you know, cant find anything wrong with you. Does that scare you . Indeed, yeah, it does. You know, i dont know what to do. Steve had a Car Accident years ago and hit his head, but thinks his symptoms are down to repeated hits playing rugby. You know, the scrummaging was a hit. The contacts in the rucks and the mauls were the same. Very hard. But you dont realise, probably until the latter parts of where we are now that they were significant, you know, to possible brain trauma. Youre suffering now. The fact that you think it is linked to your Rugby Playing years ago, how is it youre still involved in the sport . How is it youre still coaching . I want them to know that whats happening to me, you know, we can try and prevent that or reduce the possibility of that by making sure that theyre going to be safe on the rugby pitch, whether theyre training or whether theyre playing. Now steves hoping to get answers for himself. What happens next . Um, ive got a functional mri scan, which is a little bit more, uh, a deepersort of investigation into Brain Injuries. Do you think youll be a bit nervous . Iam nervous, yeah. Yeah. Seriously. Yeah, iam nervous. The early Onset Dementia Type thing that im, you know, that im majorly worried about, if i could rubbish all that and say that its not me, you know, i can put my family at ease. Are you ok for us to catch up . Stay in touch . By all means, yeah, absolutely. I think its important. Steves not the only former Rugby Player concerned about his health. Not a bad place, is it . It is beautiful. Not a bad place to call home. Jason hobson and Neil Clark are former professional Rugby Team mates and old friends. I dont know what the odds are of two people being as close and playing next to each other positions, and then you to do your knee, ill do my knee, you do your shoulder, ill do my shoulder, you do your neck, ill do my neck, or the other way around. Its always like One Upmanship and who can get hurt the worst you know, godfathers to each other� s kids. Married, married, you know, and then divorced, divorced divorced, divorced yeah. It worked out when i was down you were there, and when you were down, i was there. They started their Rugby Careers together in 1999 and played for exeter and bristol, amongst other clubs. And jason went on to play for his country. But both also received some nasty hits. Did you suffer concussions during your Playing Career . Yeah, i got knocked out and im looking up and i dont know where i am for 20 minutes. You just tend to just get up and get on with it. I can remember blacking out a few times. I couldnt put a figure on the amount of collisions ive had where id have sustained damage, but itd be in the hundreds of thousands easily for the amount we trained, played over 14 years. Many professional athletes struggle emotionally when they retire, but after injuries forced them to stop playing in 2014, Jason And Neil noticed unexpected behavioural changes which they put down to repeated head impacts. I went off the rails, caused a divorce. I wasnt in a good way. Personality massively changed. Alcohol, um, substance abuse. Everything to take you away from whats happening in your head. Forgetfulness, anger and. Suicidal thoughts. How bad did it get . When i was ready, i was ready not to be here, i thought, genuinely thought that my children would be better off and my wife without me in their life. I get emotional thinking about it now, but ijust want everything to stop the pain, the pressure, not knowing whats happening to you, the changes. Yeah, it was really tough. Jason and neil have been diagnosed with probable cte, chronic traumatic encephalopathy, a condition linked to repeated blows to the head which leads to Dementia And Cant be formally diagnosed until after death. Symptoms include mood swings, depression and suicidal thoughts. But you werent aware of the risks . I had no idea. No one was telling you . No. And i had this. Ive had this thrown at me so many times. Well, you know what you were signing up for. I broke my neck. Im suffering with Nerve Damage for the rest of my life. I take that, but i didnt sign up to get diagnosed with, you know, early Onset Dementia at 38 years old. No. You had brain scans done. What did they show exactly . I think it was between seven and nine spots on the brain and the Frontal Cortex that had been damaged. But, basically, in laymans terms, it affects your. Your ability to reason, your anger. At 41, yeah, im living with dementia every day. Theres only one way its going to go. Its not going to get better. Jason, Neil And Steve dont blame the individual clubs they played for, but are part of a group taking action against Rugby Authorities. Our position is that the Governing Bodies have been negligent in their duty of care towards our Rugby Playing community, to protect them from all the varying neurological impairments that they are now suffering from. I richard boardman� s firm is suing World Rugby, the Welsh Rugby Union, and the rfu the rugby Football Union on behalf of hundreds of players with a range of symptoms. We believe approximately 40 have probable cte. I but, importantly, this isnt just about dementia and chronic traumatic encephalopathy. This is about motor. Neurone disease, this is about parkinsons disease. We believe its a catastrophe. And the true scale of the damage will play out like a Car Crash in slow motion as players continue to deteriorate. In a statement, World Rugby and the Welsh Rugby Union told us, the ongoing legal action prevents us from reaching out to players involved in this programme. We want them to know we care, we listen and they remain valued members of the rugby family. They said they will never stand still when it comes to Player Welfare at all levels of the game. All three of the rugby Governing Bodies contest the legal claims, which havent yet gone to trial. One of the key parts of the case is how the rules around concussion changed. When the sport turned professional in 1995. And the elite men were training every day of the week, they were getting bigger, j stronger, heavier, faster. And the result of that is it became a pure collision sport. And at the same time, some of our allegations pertain to some of the Concussion Protocols we say were diluted. So what were rugby unions rules on dealing with concussion, and how did they change . In 1998, the Rfu Handbook of Safe Rugby said, potentially serious complications can develop many hours after an apparently minor Head Injury. A player who suffered a definite concussion shall not participate in any Match Or Training session for a period of at least three weeks, and may then only do so after being declared fit by a proper neurological examination. But then, in the early 2000s, these proposals come along, which were to significantly change rugby Unions Approach to concussion. This was the moment professional rugby demonstrated to the world that Player Welfare was absolutely not its number one priority. Sam peters is a rugby correspondent, Campaigner And Author of a book about Head Injuries in rugby. He was disappointed by proposals in the new handbook suggesting reducing the Concussion Recovery Period from three Weeks Period from three weeks to a minimum of six days. To a minimum of six days. It meant that players it meant that players could play one week and then could play one week and then have a brain injury, have a brain injury, but be passed fit to play but be passed fit to play the following week. The following week. This was despite evidence that this was despite evidence that some Brain Injuries could take some Brain Injuries could take much longer than six much longer than six days to heal. Days to heal. How do theyjustify getting how do theyjustify getting players back suddenly players back suddenly within just six days . Within just six days . So part of this document so part of this document is essentially introducing is essentially introducing the idea of a baseline test, the idea of a baseline test, which the players would which the players would undergo during preseason undergo during preseason essentially an assessment essentially an assessment of their cognitive ability of their cognitive ability before theyve been before theyve been exposed to brain trauma. Exposed to brain trauma. And that was a Reference Point for the medical staff to go back to when a player had been suspected of having a concussion. These Baseline Tests were trialled from 2002 by the rfu in the english premiership. But there was a problem. Lots of players were coming out and telling me it was incredibly easy to cheat. Players like neil said they wanted to play who set the rules and protective standards for the game globally. In 2011, World Rugby implemented the minimum six Day Return to play and allowed Team Doctors to sign this off. They said it would enhance the protection of players at all levels of the game at all levels of the game by requiring them to complete by requiring them to complete six stages of recovery six stages of recovery before they could return. Before they could return. They later reported they later reported that the average amount of time that the average amount of time concussed players sat out concussed players sat out after the changes after the changes was around 16 days. Was around 16 days. But there was one man but there was one man who was fighting these who was fighting these changes from the inside. Changes from the inside. Probably my first probably my first with dementia. Year in practice. Year in practice. Dr Barry Dr Barry as Dr Barry, yes. As Dr Barry, yes. Dr Barry 0driscoll was a gp Dr Barry 0driscoll was a gp and an adviser on the and an adviser on the international rugby board, international rugby board, now known as World Rugby. Now known as World Rugby. Also a former ireland also a former ireland international, barry has international, barry has recently been diagnosed recently been diagnosed with dementia. Do you fear or worry that that was caused by your Rugby Playing . I do. I do very much. Barrys given us exclusive access to his emails with the Rugby Authorities. He was critical of the changes to the safety rules. Going back through some of your earlier emails, idid. And i told them that in committee and in writing, and i wasnt getting anywhere. It was always a feeling in me that we were doing wrong. In 2012, a new rule was trialled on players at the junior World Cup. As before, clearly concussed players were supposed to be removed from the game, but those with suspected cases of concussion were given a standardised five Minute Assessment to see if they, too, would have to be taken off. World rugby said this would add an extra layer of protection, but for barry, it was the final straw. Then they brought in this Head Injury assessment where you would get a player with a Head Injury having a five Minute Assessment and i thought, i cannot have my name associated with this. And that was when i resigned. The effects may take ten, 15, half an hour. It doesnt bear thinking about, really, that symptoms and signs were coming on later, and you were basing everything on a five Minute Assessment. I think George North has taken a boot to the head there. In 2015, the assessment was increased to ten minutes. During the six nations that during the six nations that year, welsh player George North year, welsh player George North sustained a Head Injury. Sustained a Head Injury. He had an assessment he had an assessment and was controversially and was controversially returned to play. Returned to play. He later received a second blow he later received a second blow to the head and stayed on. To the head and stayed on. There he is, george. There he is, george. In 2019, the Head Injury in 2019, the Head Injury assessment became 12 minutes. Assessment became 12 minutes. Recently, Premiership Rugby recently, Premiership Rugby started using independent started using independent doctors instead of Team Doctors instead of Team Doctors, and World Rugby doctors, and World Rugby extended the minimum recovery extended the minimum Recovery Period after a Concussion Period after a concussion from six days to 12. From six days to 12. That handbook, which seemed that handbook, which seemed to have an influence to have an influence on all those initial changes, on all those initial changes, was written in the early was written in the early 2000s by dr Paul Mccrory, 2000s by dr Paul Mccrory, with modifications for with modifications for England Rugby by dr simon kemp. England rugby by dr simon kemp. But who are they . Well, simon kemps a Sports Doctor who was the England Team Doctor at 2003 World Cup and 2007 World Cup, now the head of medical services at the rfu and i would say is one of the most, if not the most influential voice on concussion in Sport And Return to play protocols. And Paul Mccrory . Paul mccrory was and is an australian Sports Doctor. He was one of the driving forces behind the concussion in Sport Group. The rfu and other major Governing Bodies in rugby and other sports essentially relied on the concussion in Sport Group, and it was constantly telling people that there were no proven causal links between repetitive Head Injuries and long term neurodegenerative problems. The concussion in Sport Group says it provides guidance on the latest research. Its made up of voluntary members. Most of them also work with the Governing Bodies of Contact Sports worldwide. Its chairman, Paul Mccrory, was forced to resign in 2022 after being discredited for copying other peoples work. Whats been evidenced now is that a lot of his Work Wasnt Fit for purpose, and i wasnt surprised when mccrory was exposed as a plagiarist a couple of years ago. The challenge now for sport is to really understand his denial of previously accepted medical science, and how thats still influencing sport to this day. Are the rfu or World Rugby tarnished by their association with mccrory . Yes, i believe they are, and the concussion in Sport Group, upon which they relied on for so long whilst at the same time ignoring credible evidence that was around and available from other research groups. We tried to contact Dr Mccrory but got no response. World rugby told us their protocols dont rely on the work of any one group or individual, Dr Mccrory included. They said the work of the concussion in Sport Group is considered alongside all the other studies. They added, the Concussion Protocols in Place Today are informed by the latest Science And World leading independent expert opinion. But there are still concerns. Weve spoken to a wide selection of academics and experts across the world. Many are leaders in theirfield. We have a total of over 1,500 in the Brain Bank. Professor Ann Mckee is a world renowned neuropathologist and runs the worlds largest Brain Bank. And, of course, mostly football, but increasingly rugby, ice hockey, other sports. And families send these to you and then you keep them here, you analyse them and then. . We analyse them and we keep them in perpetuity. The Brain Bank was set up around the time former American Football players were taking legal action against the sport for brain damage. In 2013, the governing body, the nfl, agreed to settle out of court, and has since paid out 1. 3 billion. Tell me about your work, what you were finding and what impact that had on the nfl settlement. We were getting hundreds of brains, hundreds of nfl players, and what we were seeing in nearly every case was some degree of cte. It was absolutely shocking and absolutely unacceptable. And this is Head Trauma caused by concussions or subconcussive blows repeated . Its just the hits to the head. It doesnt have to cause a concussion. Its the hits that are non concussive, non symptomatic, that over time create this disease. In 2012 you went to the concussion in Sport Group conference, didnt you . Yes, idid. At that point, we only had one paper out, but i was invited to go to this conference with, you know, very serious representatives from all sorts of leagues Paul Mccrory from australia, World Rugby was there. I presented what i thought was overwhelming evidence of this neurodegenerative disease. They were very quiet. I certainly got the impression that the reason i had been invited was so that they could give the appearance of having listened, and then decided it was rubbish. Ive looked at thousands of brains, but they consider themselves the expert. That same year, the concussion that same year, the concussion in Sport Group said, in Sport Group said, the way the research had been the way the research had been carried out on the brains carried out on the brains of deceased players meant it of deceased players meant it couldnt be used to prove that couldnt be used to prove that Contact Sports had Contact Sports had caused cte. We asked them about this. Caused cte. They said. They said. Adding they appreciate. Adding they appreciate any efforts to better any efforts to better understand the complexity understand the complexity of sport concussion. Of sport concussion. World rugby said in recent head impacts. World rugby said in recent years, their independent years, their independent Concussion Working Group has met with Representatives Concussion working group has met with representatives from boston university. From boston university. And, as a result, they now and, as a result, they now acknowledge recent research acknowledge recent research suggesting the potential suggesting the potential for long Term Brain for long Term Brain health consequences. Health consequences. They said theyre constantly they said theyre constantly innovating and evolving to make innovating and evolving to make rugby safer, with projects rugby safer, with projects such as Smart Mouthguard Technology to monitor such as smart mouthguard so what about the Grassroots Game . Someone with an intimate knowledge of the Devastation Head injuries can have is karen robinson, mother to 14 year old benjamin. Hes vibrant, hes animated, hes. Hes lovely. Hes also very mischievous. Hes my only boy. In 2011, Karens Son was playing school rugby. Im watching him play. Im watching just, you know, contact after contact. There was a lot of stoppages for him. Karen saw benjamin take repeated hits. And there was another stoppage. And. I just started running. I got to my son and hes lying on his back. I told him i was there. I told him that i loved him. When i get to hospital, its Benjamins Stepdad that asks. You know, out of cases that you have dealt with before like this, what is the Survival Rate . None. Benjamin never recovered. His death was caused by second impact syndrome, where someone suffers another Head Injury before recovering from a first. His family have led a campaign if in doubt, sit Them 0ut but say more education is needed. Should the Rugby Authorities and the professional game at the highest level be taking more of a lead on this, do you think . It has to come from the top. Benjamin is not the first. Hes certainly not the last. If it comes from me, im just some mum who lost her son in a rugby match. Today, steve sugar, the coach i met in devizes, gets his scan results. His daughtersjoined his daughtersjoined us for support. Us for support. The white matter in the brain the white matter in the brain is kind of the superhighway. I is kind of the superhighway. I the Grey Matter is where the Grey Matter is where the thinking happens the thinking happens and the white matter and the white matter are the connections i are the connections i between them. Between them. Dr Andre GouwsDr Andre Gouws is a neuroscientist. Is a neuroscientist. First of all, this is the white first of all, this is the white matter of the brain, matter of the brain, and we would expect in this and we would expect in this scan that that would scan that that would look pretty uniformly look pretty uniformly grey and dark grey. I grey and dark grey. I and im not a clinician, i and im not a clinician, i but there are quite a few but there are quite a few White Dots in there. White dots in there. Weve compared your Brain Weve compared your brain to 132 other people to 132 other people same age, same sex as you, same age, same sex as you, and what we see is that and what we see is that the chemistry in those white the chemistry in those white matter tracts is abnormal. Matter tracts is abnormal. In many of them. In many of them. We cant say specifically whether its damage and we cant say whether its related to rugby, but the tracts that weve seen it in are consistent with those| we see in other Rugby Players. It sort of helps me accept that obviously all the changes that thats my biggest worry, and thats why i coach. You know, if were going to protect rugby, which, you know, im passionate about. This is not me against rugby. Its about making things better. Good. Great work. Live from london, this is bbc news. Sir Keir Starmer meets with his irish counterpart in dublin, aiming to forge a new relationship post brexit. Today is really significant because weve made clear our ambition to reset the relationship. This is a very good day for ireland and the united kingdom. Boeings Starliner Capsule returns to earth, but without its crew. Theyll have to remain on the international Space Station until february. Protests take place across france over the appointment of Michel Barnier as the countrys new prime minister. Britain and americas top spies warn the international World Order is under threat, in a way not seen since the cold war. And i am live at Bbc Radio 2 in the park, where will where i will speak to Gj Radio speroni and craig david. Hello