Transcripts For BBCNEWS The Context 20240907

In america to charge the parents of a school shooter. And Donald Trump will not be sentenced this month over his conviction for fraud in the hush money trial. Sentencing has been postponed until after the election. Welcome to the programme. Today a Court In Sheffield sentenced a man who took part in the Summer Riots to nine years in prison. It is the heaviest sentence handed down so far. 27 year old Thomas Birley a painter and decorator, attacked Police Officers in rotherham in august and was seen stoking a fire that had been set outside a hotel, that was Housing Asylum seekers. The court was told there were more than 200 Asylum Seekers and staff trapped in that building who thought they were going to burn to death. The judge told birley you were a leading participant in an ignorant, racist attempt at mob rule. The Prime Minister promised that people would pay for what they did. But it is putting added pressure on prisons that are already full to bursting. Todays� figures show the Prison Population is at 88,500 inmates. Thats a rise of almost 1,200 and half of those cases are linked to the Summer Riots. There are just over A Thousand spaces before the prisons will be at full capacity. It is putting enormous pressure on our Prison Officers. As our senior Uk Correspondent Sima Kotecha has been discovering at Pentonville Prison in london. Hmp pentonville. Laughter. This week, we went inside Hmp Pentonville in london. Threes, fours, get your meds . One of englands most crowded and dangerous jails. So theyve just jumped on the netting. Prison officers are running up the stairs to try and get them down. What the staff are saying is that it can turn really quickly. A quiet moment can become chaotic within a matter of seconds. As one Prison Officer said, its like the flick of a switch. Banging on door. We saw the pressures facing staff and governors as they tackle drugs, Self Harm and violence. The system is run at a 99. 9 j constantly, and when you run at that kind of High Levelj of output for a sustained period of time like We Havel done, you know, people get tired, systems get frayed, you know, and that does cause problems. Next week, the government will release thousands of inmates early to make more space. The hope is that that will alleviate some of the pressure. Following the bbc� s rare access to pentonville, the Prime Minister said he was alarmed by the state of the penal system. No Prime Minister should be in the position of having to concern him or herself with are there enough prison places. So were doing what is necessary. Well turn it around. Well make sure the prisons we need are built, but ive been truly shocked by what ive found in relation to the state of our prisons. Some of those working in jails say theyve been at a Crisis Point for a while now. The bbc have done my members absolute justice. Pentonville is a replica of lots ofjails up and down the country. Im not saying everyjail, but lots ofjails of that ilk. But there are concerns early releases will mean more danger on the streets, with some preferring to keep offenders behind bars for as long as possible. Sima kotecha, bbc news. On tuesday some 2,000 prisoners will be freed early, 40 through their sentences, rather than 50 under previous guidelines. The government says its not a good policy, but the only solution in the circumstances. Lets speak to nick hardwick, he is the former Chief Inspector of prisons and is former chair of the Parole Board for england and wales. Thank for england and wales. You for being with us this thank you for being with us this evening. What most concerns you about this policy of releasing early . Of releasing early . Well, i dont think of releasing early . Well, i dont think the of releasing early . Well, i l dont think the government of releasing early . Well, i dont think the government have any choice in the short term, but to do what they are doing, it isnt a question of whether it isnt a question of whether it will be enough, so theres no choice, i think. But its like, you know, you squeeze the balloon in one place, the bulge just moves down, it goes somewhere else. So the risk i think of this are that some of those who are released early will permit committed other offences. We know that about a third of all prisoners who are released reoffend within one year. And about half of those who serve the sentence of a year or less reoffend within one year. Some of those who are released early now will reoffend, but you know, its no comfort to the victims to say this but they probably would have re offended anyhow a few months later if they had been released on the original schedule. Released on the original schedule. You talk about squeezing schedule. You talk about squeezing a schedule. You talk about squeezing a balloon schedule. You talk about squeezing a balloon and | schedule. You talk about. Squeezing a balloon and the bulge from his income of the bulge from his income of the bulge clearly is moving towards all the probation service, is it . As the former chair of the Parole Board you will know all about how much pressure they are under already. The delusion of work. Exactly. Are under already. The delusion of work. Exactly. I are under already. The delusion of work. Exactly. I think are under already. The delusion of work. Exactly. I think there l of work. Exactly. I think there are two really obvious problems. One of them is where are these people who are being released going to live . Thats the first issue. Secondly, about whether probation have got the resources to properly supervise them once they are out. Very basically, no about one of the things that may have happened to prisoners inside they will of had drug treatment, they will affect help with their drug problem, if they are released and that isnt continued seamlessly out in the community, there is a real risk they will relapse and the good work they have done and being off drugs in prison will have been lost. So i think there are some real risks there, but in the short term i dont see that the government have any realistic alternative. In the longer run though, i do think theyve got a choice, and the choice is this are they going to spend literally billions building new prisons to cope with an ever growing Prison Population, or are they going to try and control the growth of the population and put money instead into trying to make sure that when people are in prison they are run properly and with experienced staff who can try and address the behaviour that people have held and that people get support when they leave to stay straight basically. Im not saying thats an easy choice for the government, politically its very difficult i think, thatis its very difficult i think, that is a choice. Its very difficult i think, that is a choice. Two issues i went to pick that is a choice. Two issues i went to pick up that is a choice. Two issues i went to pick up on that is a choice. Two issues i went to pick up on on that is a choice. Two issues i went to pick up on on what l went to pick up on on what you just sent. First is the space being created by this policy of releasing next week will be filled, as weve just highlighted, by those sentenced for the rioting this summer. But because these prisoners who are being freed early have not been properly rehabilitated, as you say, many of them are going to reoffend, so the Breathing Space that you are creating with this policy is getting narrower and narrower. Yeah. I think the narrower and narrower. Yeah. I think the government narrower and narrower. Yeah. I think the government have narrower and narrower. Yeah. I l think the government have been unlucky with riots, i think it does mean the Breathing Space will be less than otherwise would have been. They have got a Big New Prison with about 1500 places opening up next year, so there may be able to get through that 0k. Year, so there may be able to get through that ok. So it will be very tight, but they have at least in the short term themselves a bit of Breathing Space. And now they have to use that wisely to fix the Long Term problems. {lin that wisely to fix the longterm problems. On the other issue, longterm problems. On the other issue, because longterm problems. On the other issue, because of longterm problems. On the other issue, because of the l other issue, because of the situation were in, is that the assaults, serious assaults on Prison Guards has risen 24 year on year. These are the people we expect to grow into a vacation vocation, to rehabilitate prisoners, they are terrified of doing their job because they face extraordinary violence. How worried are you that the whole system is going to collapse under the stress that the Prison Guards, the Prison Officers are facing . Im Prison Guards, the Prison Officers are facing . Im very worried about officers are facing . Im very worried about that. Officers are facing . Im very worried about that. I officers are facing . Im very worried about that. I think. Worried about that. I think that the work Prison Officers do is very much underappreciated, and what you need is notjust numbers of Prison Officers you need numbers of Prison Officers with the Experience And Authority to manage, almost all men, the men they are holding. They shouldnt have to go to work bearing that they are going to bearing that they are going to be assaulted. Fearing they will be assaulted. Ive been in lots of prisons as Chief Inspector but inside the ones ive been in recently where ive been in recently where ive been in recently where ive been escorted by staff, ive been escorted by staff, ive never less felt i need to be very careful about my own physical security, simply because i didnt think that prison was under control. And i think the reality for Prison Officers is they are facing that every day they go to work. And so its not surprising there is a very high turnover in Prisons Staff and because theres a high turnover you dont get the experience you need, dont get things sorted out. So i think thats a major problem. And i think if we talk about prison capacity, its not just a question of the physical space available is whether weve got sufficient experienced staff to manage the population thats being held. Yeah, some sobering things to consider. Nick hardwick, thank you so much for coming on the programme. In kenya there are 70 children who are still unaccounted for after a fire at a primary school, which killed 17 boys. The Boarding School is in the Central Highlands of the country around 150km north of the capital nairobi. The pictures tell the story, the fire burnt out of control. The firefighters said it started in a Boys Dormitory that had housed more than 150 students. Some families are still waiting to hear whether their children are among the dead, not all the bodies have been identified. 0ur Africa Correspondent Barbara Plett Usher has more, from the scene. It has, of course, been a terrifying event for all the children involved, and the International Committee Of The Red Cross tells us they plan to set up a Trauma Centre at this hospital to offer psychological counselling to those who have been very shaken by the fire, which broke out around 11 00 at night in a Boys Dormitory. 156 boys were in there sleeping and as the flames engulfed the area, some of them crawled underneath the beds trying to escape the fire. The firefighters came to put it out, but they were delayed because of muddy roads, and in the meantime, neighbours rushed to the school and eventually they all did manage to put the fire out and rescue many of the boys. But sadly, as we know, many of them died and a number were severely burned. Police said that bodies were burnt beyond recognition of those who passed away, and now families, some of them are still looking to see where their children are. They would have to identify remains, they would have to trace the children to whatever hospitals they were taken. So that is something very much occupying them right now. It has to be said that fires at kenyan Boarding Schools are actually rather common, sometimes set by the students themselves, maybe because theyre protesting against the workload or because theyre protesting against living conditions. We dont know that that was what the cause of this fire was. Were still waiting to hear what the reason for the fire was. So there is an investigation ongoing. And the president has said that those who are responsible must be held to account. But in the meantime, the Family Members do have a very Heart Wrenching Task to do in terms of identifying remains of those who were killed. Barbara played a short reporting from kenya. Around the world and across the uk. This is bbc news. Welcome back. Former President Donald Trump will not be sentenced in his New York criminal case until after the 2024 election. His legal team were told Byjudgejuan Merchan that further to their requests he was postponing sentencing until November 26 that would be three weeks after the election. He said he had taken the decision to avoid any appearance that the court was trying to influence voters. Donald trump was in a manhattan court today, appealing against another verdict that went against him last year. A civiljury sided with the Author Ejean Carroll who had alleged that he had attacked her in the Dressing Room of a Department Store back in the 1990s. The court awarded damages of 2 Million for sexual abuse and 3 Million for defamation. The former president had repeatedly smeared Carrolls Reputation after she came forward to make that allegation. And he was at it again today. The judge. We had two trials. We asked for a consolidation, he said no. The reason he said no is hed rather have double the publicity, because thats bad for me, very bad because im running for president. And this is not the kind of publicity you like. And whether its true or not, its horrible. And in this case, its so false. Its a made up, fabricated story by somebody, i think initiallyjust looking to promote a book. And when they called me, i denied the story. I got sued essentially for defamation because im denying a story where im right. I should be suing her for defamation. We can speak to our North America Correspondent john sudworth, whos in New York. Look, the Appeals Panel Wont rule until after the election so we dont know how they will view the gene carroll case. Some of the arguments there that he made that hed never met her that hed been wrongfully accused, are the same arguments he was sued for before, so is he risking more liability . He before, so is he risking more liabili . ,. , liability . He is. If you listen to ejean liability . He is. If you listen to E Jean Carrolls Liability . He is. If you listen to E Jean carrolls lawyers. | to ejean carrolls lawyers. They are considering launching another case for defamation, he surely knows that. You know, i was in that, it was called a Press Conference by his team but it wasnt in the sense that there was no opportunity for any of the journalists there to ask questions, but even by Donald Trumps standards, this was a pretty unconventional event. There was a time in us politics when relitigating in public and every sexual Assault Allegation made against you, Evenif Allegation made against you, even if its to deny those allegations would not have been seen as a winning strategy. But this is the Donald Trump world of politics and political reality that we live in today. What was a victory for him, of course, was his success in his criminal case. As you say, the judge their ruling, accepting the trump teams request to have that sentencing delayed until after the election. He said he did it despite, all along through this process, being at pains to make sure that politics and justice do not mix, but, he said, their argument that there was a possibility here that in at least the appearance, the public may conclude that in some way the two are linked. He said, however, unwarranted, that impression might be, he has decided to remove any possibility of people thinking that there is electoral interference going on from his court. He wants to delay the trial. Of course for many people the problem with that is they think it ought to be part of the election. It will mean that americans will go to the polls in november on the 5th of november, without knowing what sentence hes going to get from a financial penalty or a custodial one. A financial penalty or a custodial one. Yeah, it is dizzying custodial one. Yeah, it is dizzying following custodial one. Yeah, it is dizzying following all custodial one. Yeah, it is i dizzying following all these cases, thats for sure. John, good to talk to you. In the united states, a 14 year old boy and his father have appeared in court after a high School Shooting in georgia. Colt gray shot dead two classmates and two teachers injuring nine others. He is charged with first Degree Murder and will be tried as an adult. His father also appeared charged with involuntary manslaughter and second Degree Murder hes accused of giving his son a firearm despite knowing that he was a threat to himself and others. Heres our North America Correspondent, gary 0donoghue. I want to inform you of the charges. 1a years old and facing four Murder Charges for allegedly shooting two classmates and two teachers. Colt gray did not enter a plea, but at first heard this from thejudge. You could be punishable by death, by Imprisonment For Life Without Parole Or By imprisonment for life. But minutes later, the judge, in an extraordinary slip up, had to recall him. Ijust need to correct one thing on the record. The penalty for the crimes for which you are charged does not include death. The defendants father, in a rare move, is also facing charges. Colin gray, who also did not enter a plea, has been indicted on 1a charges, including second Degree Murder and cruelty. Prosecutors say he knowingly allowed his son to possess a gun. Its believed the defendant used a Semiautomatic Rifle to carry out the shooting on wednesday, but a new Security System installed a week earlier allowed teachers to call the police immediately, who took the suspect into custody within minutes. The victims included two students and two teachers. Richard aspinwall was a Football Coach at the school. Cristina irimie, an algebra teacher. The two students were christian Angulo And Mason schermerhorn, both 1a. As usual in america, political reaction split down party lines. We cannot continue to accept the carnage of gun violence. If you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realise that our schools are soft targets. Holding parents partly responsible for School Shootings has come increasingly to the fore after a couple was jailed in michigan earlier this year when their son killed four people at his high school. But the charges faced in this case by the father are even more serious, and he could face up to 180 years injail. Gary 0donoghue, bbc news. It is rare for the parents of children involved in a School Shooting to be prosecuted. But a precedent was set earlier this year when the parents of another school shooter, ethan crumbley, were sentenced to at least ten years in prison for not securing a handgun and not recognising the Mental Health Problems of their child. The prosecutor in that michigan case was Karen Mcdonald and she is with us. Hello, thank you very much for coming on the programme. From the detail thats been reported over this case in georgia, do you see similarities between that case and when you prosecuted . I that case and when you prosecuted . That case and when you prosecuted . That case and when You Rosecuted . ~. ,. , ~ prosecuted . I know that like man of prosecuted . I know that like many of the prosecuted . I know that like many of the oxford prosecuted . I know that like many of the oxford victims i prosecuted . I know that like i many of the oxford victims that i am in touch with, it. It was terrific to see and felt very similar to what occurred in our state, very similar to what occurred in ourstate, and, you very similar to what occurred in our state, and, you know, immediately thoughts go to what these parents and students are experiencing, which isjust great Sadness And Grief and trauma. Even those students who werent injured at all, the effects of that trauma really never goes away. Effects of that trauma really never goes away. They were convicted never goes away. They were convicted of never goes away. They were convicted of involuntary convicted of Involu Nta Ry manslaughter, convicted of involuntary manslaughter, in this case, colin gray, the father, has been charged with two counts of second degree felony murder. Each charge would carry up to 30 years in prison. What is the difference in this case compared to the one you prosecuted . Compared to the one you prosecuted . Compared to the one You Rosecuted . , ~. , prosecuted . You know, i ust dont prosecuted . You know, i ust dont have i prosecuted . You know, i ust dont have enough i prosecuted . You know, ijust dont have enough details prosecuted . You know, ijust dont have enough details or| dont have enough details or faxed to make that determination. I am also not licensed in the state of georgia, and licence in the state of michigan and the statutes are not identical, nor is the burden of proof. So at this moment, i know that dad purchased the Ar 15 which as you know is extremely powerful deadly weapon. It holds about rounds and allows the shooter to shoot rapidly and it causes a lot of damage to the human body. I know that was purchased, its been reported, and i know there was a prior Law Enforcement Contact but thats all we really know. Do Ou Thats all we really know. Do you think thats all we really know. Do you think you set a precedent . Because as gary said, it is rare for this to happen. The judge in your case said these convictions were not about poor parenting, they concerned repeated acts or lack of acts that could have halted, in his words, an oncoming runaway train. So ijust wonder whether this is going to become the norm, is there is a clear negligence as it appears to be in this georgia case, it is parents who are going to be held response will . The udge was absolutely held response will . The udge was absolutely right h held response will . The judge was absolutely right when held response will . The judgej was absolutely right when she sentence the parents in my case, it wasnt about being a bad parent, you are allowed to be a bad parent. Nor is it about Holding Parents responsible for the actions of the children. I am generally not supportive of that. Its where the egregious set of facts in this case, and it was all of those facts taken as a whole, and so i dont really, i will describe what happened in our county and the decision i made and the convictions that will remain as a precedent set. Candidly, My Sincerest Hope is that we wouldnt need to set such a precedent and we would never have the same set of facts arise that would give rise to a charge of involuntary manslaughter of a parent. I suppose what im getting at, and gary touched on in his report, when you talk about how to tackle this endemic problem in america, it does split down party lines. If there cant be a solution in terms of tightening up gun laws, may be making parents are aware that they are liable is actually the way to get children mental Health Treatment and to ensure that weapons are locked away as they should be. They should be. Well, i might ush they should be. Well, i might push back they should be. Well, i might push back on they should be. Well, i might push back on the they should be. Well, i might push back on the idea they should be. Well, i might push back on the idea that. They should be. Well, i might push back on the idea that it | push back on the idea that It Split down party lines. I am an elected official, there is no doubt, but the wave of support which was really surprising and you know, i really expected a lot of Negative Backlash which i ultimately decided i couldnt care about, is from all sorts of people become moderates, democrats, republicans, so much support for that prosecution from responsible gun owners. So i actually think most of us regardless of what letter we have after her name want our kids to be safe and the message here it needs to be its so easy and simple to secure a firearm, it takes less than ten seconds. , a. ,. , seconds. Karen mcdonald, we are u. Seconds. Karen mcdonald, we are up against seconds. Karen mcdonald, we are up against the seconds. Karen mcdonald, we are up against the right, seconds. Karen mcdonald, we are up against the right, its up against the right, its lovely to talk to you, thank you for coming on the programme. Hello there we had some enormous contrasts in Weather Fortunes across the uk on friday. Many of you saw some warm afternoon. Spells of sunshine felt quite humid and temperatures surged as high as 28 celsius in cambridge. That was one of the highest temperatures. It was pretty hot elsewhere in East Anglia and also the northwest of the uk, west through in dumfries and galloway. Ten degrees above average and 27 degrees here set a new Temperature Record for september at this particular site, with records going back a0 years in the south, different story. Cloud and rain once again worked its way in, and have been totting up all of those rainfall totals both through thursday and friday. In farnborough, in hampshire, weve recorded 56mm of rain thats only three millimetres away from the entire average rainfall for september we would normally expect, so its been nearly a Months Worth of rainfall thats come our way. Now, looking at the Weather Picture overnight tonight, it turns murky again with low cloud becoming extensive. Some Mist And Fog patches with that spots of drizzle. But finally the Weather Fronts in the south will give up the ghost. The rain will ease off in intensity. Just a few patches of damp and drizzly weather left over on into the weekend, the same area of low pressure that brought the soaking to the south is still going to be bringing the threat of heavy, thundery showers or some longer spells of rain to england and wales. Now its going to be a murky start to the day for many. Watch out for these showers as they work into parts of eastern england. They could be quite heavy through the morning. Elsewhere, a few thundery showers could pop up into the afternoon. Hit or miss in nature, but one or two of those could be quite intense. Scotland and Northern Ireland, The Cloud will tend to thin and break with sunshine coming through, and it should stay dry here. Well have some of the highest temperatures in the uk again across northwestern areas. For sunday its a case of showers or some longer spells of rain, probably some thunderstorms mixed in. We might see some localised Surface Water Flooding from some of the heaviest downpours across england and wales, and again Hit Or Miss in nature in terms of how much rain that we get from this system. Scotland and Northern Ireland having the drier weather but probably turning a bit cloudier. The Jet Stream next week is going to change. Its going to pull in a slab of colder air from the north west, and with that will come some rather unsettled and showery weather conditions. Temperatures dropping across the board and some chilly nights developing from midweek on. Hello, im christian fraser. Youre watching the context on bbc news. A historic win for san marino. After 206 defeats, what was special about this game . Sport and for a full round up, from the bbc sport centre, heres 0llie foster. Jake draperies on court at flushing meadows, taking on sinner in the Us Open semifinal, it is going with serve, set