And to, you know, describe the theatre and the Home Front and all the elements of war, but i was very worried whether i would come across as some kind of creepy tourist who was just kind of feasting on the unusual sight and ticking it off on a weird bucket list. That wasnt my intention, i was invited there, but im aware that its a sensitive area, isnt it . Oh, but you can see. I mean, vitaly, im sure, agrees with me that the reaction of ukrainians that you were there, they were very honoured, they were so pleased, because they know you, and also because you have become a well known advocate of what is a growing issue for ukraine, and that is how for ukraine, and that is how to deal with Mental Health. To deal with Mental Health. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And thats why i went there. And thats why i went there. The elements, the way we cover olena zelenska, the first lady, olena zelenska, the first lady, she has, for a few years now, had these special conferences she has, for a few years now, in which she invites other first ladies and, as they call them, first Ladies And Gentlemen. Ladies and gentlemen. So the first Ladies And Gentlemen gather, and discuss things, and use what i suppose you might call the soft power of a President Ial or prime ministerial spouse. Their connections and their ability to get things done and be heard. And she invited me to co moderate, if thats the right word, a conference specifically on Mental Health. And i leapt at the chance. You know, thats it about the ukraine war, it hearkens back to the Trench Warfare of the first World War and then the most modern of warfare in drone warfare. But it is also one of you never know what triggers the bout of grief, you know . I sometimes you can go about your life, then all of a sudden, something brings back memories and you start crying. The help i would probably appreciate and need eventually, its to treat my depression, because i sometimes get. Depressed over the fact that i dont live My Life to the full. But its not a priority right now. Ill tell you who they are, stephen. One of these voices belongs to valeriia, whos a choir singer, who lives in london now. Maksym is a Soldier Fighting on the front line. And the third one is viktoriia, whos also now moved to the uk, but she lost her husband and her daughter in the early days of the war. They were killed right in front of her as they were leaving chernihiv. Can i ask you why you are taking an interest in ukraine in the first place . Well, i myself have a condition known as bipolar disorder, which was finally diagnosed in mym i suppose i was in my 305, but id had a very troubled childhood, building up into expulsions, and then prison, and a very tormented and stressful time that i kind of overcame. But was always aware that i had this issue. Explain to us, because maybe some of our listeners. Bipolar disorder, yes. Used to be called manic depression. And the bipolar is literally two poles, north and south, if you like. The north being a swing to elevated moods, known sometimes as mania or hypomania, in which you are unbelievably active and often embarrassingly so exhibitionist, some people are, you know, shopaholics and some people just never stop talking, Phoning Friends at three in the morning, all kinds of difficult behaviour. And then there can be a swing, it can happen suddenly, it can happen over a period of days, down to the south pole, as it were, of depression, of blackness. And theyre absolute opposites. And one of the things you have to remember is the Mind Body Parallel is quite useful. Its not absolute, but it is useful. And in the case of the body, you can have a chronic condition which you are born with, as i think my bipolar is, like Diabetes Type one, orasthma, oranything of that. Or an allergy to, you know. Coeliac disease, you know, an allergy to gluten, say. Theres just something youre theres just something youre born with, and it can be born with, and it can be triggered by getting triggered by getting the wrong thing. It gives you your asthma the wrong thing. It gives you your asthma attack, and you might trigger attack, and you might trigger your Mental Health illness. Your Mental Health illness. But then there is traumatic but then there is traumatic physical illness, which can be physical illness, which can be caused by a gunshot wound, caused by a gunshot wound, or a car crash, or falling. Or a car crash, or falling. Its serious, its serious, and its a trauma. And its the same and its a trauma. And its the same with Mental Health. With Mental Health. There are all kinds of people there are all kinds of people who are not born with a mental who are not born with a mental Health Condition, but under Health Condition, but under traumatic circumstances, either traumatic circumstances, either in childhood or indeed war, in childhood or indeed war, where these happen to people where these happen to people whove never otherwise had whove never otherwise had to consider that their mind to consider that their mind might lose its focus, might lose its focus, its equanimity, its its equanimity, its contentment, its peace, contentment, its peace, its reliability. Its reliability. Beings are great human and its extraordinary to me and its extraordinary to me that in ukraine this that in ukraine this is being talked about. Is being talked about. When i went there when i went there for this conference, for this conference, there was an openness there was an openness not complete, there were not complete, there were plenty of soldiers. Plenty of soldiers. I spoke to some boys i spoke to some boys who had lost limbs, and the joking or whatever, who had lost limbs, and when i asked them if they ever felt low about it, theyjust went, nah, like that. And then when the camera was off, they went up to me and said, of course, you know, i cry. My mother cries, and i cry when i see her cry. And i said, its ok to talk about that. Dont feel you have to be. That its somehow more of a soldier not to. You know, great human and it is a sign, and i kept getting signs i dont want to sound as if im a propagandist for ukraine but it was so clear to me from all the conversations. Firstly, that i was able to make a film with a couple of friends, a producer, and a cameraman, and no one from the government or the military was with us at any point. We were completely free to go wherever we wanted. Obviously we didnt ask to go into War Rooms or anything, but it became so apparent that what was being fought for was much more than territory. Or if it was a territory, it was a territory of the mind and the spirit, of a freedom and the spirit, of a freedom and an openness and a desire and an openness and a desire to be able to talk openly. To be able to talk openly. And talking about mental and talking about Mental Health is a very, very health is a very, very healthy, ironically, healthy, ironically, sign of that openness. Sign of that openness. And you heard that from this and you heard that from this neurosurgeon you met, andrii. Neurosurgeon you met, andrii. Lets just listen to it again. Lets just listen to it again. Mental health is Mental Health is a complete novelty. A complete novelty. Right. Right. For ukrainian society. For ukrainian society. Even 10, 15 years ago, we never even 10, 15 years ago, we never even dared to discuss about. I even dared to discuss about. I yeah. Yeah. To discuss mental issues. To discuss mental issues. Because it seemed like because it seemed like it seemed weakness . It seemed weakness . It seemed like a taboo, like weakness. It seemed like a taboo, like weakness. Yes. Yes. Youre not masculine enough, youre not masculine enough, youre not tough enough. Youre not tough enough. Its so true that theres its so true that theres an ingrained culture of, an ingrained culture of, you know, tight lipped you know, tight lipped stoicism, if you like, in stoicism, if you like, in ukraine, like boys dont cry. Ukraine, like boys dont cry. Its changing slowly. Its changing slowly. And to give you an idea and to give you an idea of the scale of the crisis, of the scale of the crisis, ive got some figures here. Ive got some figures here. Its a massive problem its a massive problem for ukraine, especially after for ukraine, especially after the start of the full scale the start of the full scale invasion. Invasion. The who, the World Health the who, the World Health organization, says that organization, says that 9. 6 million ukrainians may 9. 6 million ukrainians may have a mental Health Condition. Have a mental Health Condition. Of them, 3. 9 million of them, 3. 9 million may have conditions which are moderate or severe. May have conditions which are moderate or severe. And various researchers have found that between a third and a half of ukrainians are going through Mental Health problems such as severe distress, anxiety and depression. And clearly, theres a huge need to help them, to treat them. Yes. And an urgent crisis, too, really happens when it isnt. Because there is such a thing as. Its known in the trade as transgenerational trauma. In the conversation, said to you, well, you know, its affecting me, too . Yes. It starts with what i suppose you might almost call the theological seven deadly sins, as it were, The Dark Side of our emotions. Fear is very strong. And anger. They are so angry at russia and what russia is doing. Its this real, visceral fear. I tried to talk its there in the documentary about whether or not it was somehow wrong to cast aside Pushkin And Chekhov and say, were not going to have russian authors. And i said, but these are geniuses who contributed to the world in such a magnificent way. And they said, no, another day. Notjust they, the president. Notjust they, the president. The president said it. The president said it. You said this to the president. You said this to the president. He said, yeah, another day. He said, yeah, another day. Zelensky. Zelensky. Not now. Not now. Is it generally the case that, is it generally the case that, say, the great russian say, the great russian authors dostoevsky, authors dostoevsky, chekhov, you know, pushkin, and so on chekhov, you know, pushkin, and so on that theyre not being sold that theyre not being sold in book shops, that generally in book shops, that generally russian culture is. Russian culture is. People dont want. People dont want. They dont want it, do they . They dont want it, do they . They dont want. They dont want. There are a lot of books there are a lot of books there in english, in ukrainian. There in english, in ukrainian. Mostly people. Mostly people. That is the life. That is the life. People. People. For today, people | for today, people | hate everything. Hate everything. Yeah. Yeah. Had with several ukrainians. Which is. Which is. Connecting with russia. Connecting with russia. Anger is such a powerful anger is such a powerful emotion, especially if it cant be exorcised, if it cant be, you know, got out of the body through either some physical effort or through a defeating some, you know, some giant in your mind that needs to be felled. And that giant is, of course, emotion, especially if it cant The One who must not be named. It is a Voldemort Quality to the leader of russia. Im not going to say his name either. They dont want to say his name. To say the name of any of them. There is this fury, and underneath, a fear, of course. And something that i felt while watching that documentary, in the interviews that youve believing in and thinking of. You mentioned earlier how, for example, young people may deal with stress, anxiety by self harm, but there was a very moving interview that you did with a widow, and she explained to you how her daughter was coping with her fathers death. So, you have a daughter. How old is she . Shes 11. So, old enough to be distraught. She was. She is, actually, even now, shes very close with him. I so, do you. I know its still so recent, i know its still so recent, but do you try to talk but do you try to talk about him and keep him about him and keep him alive in conversation . Alive in conversation . And its not. And its not. With death. She keeps texting him in whatsapp. 0h. Oh, my goodness. And she actually. What she said to me about five days ago that she misses him i and she really doesnt want him to come in her dreams, but she wants him to reply| on her messages and. Or, like, to call her back. What were you thinking when the daughter said that . I mean, all of us find it sometimes. Its so. Its so hard to deal and we watched and we saw these, yeah, exactly, an average evening and a reasonably sunny day in a park, and that is what you fight for. Its very. Its very beautiful, but also its harrowing. What do you think, vitaly . Humour, hope, what do you think. . Its indispensable. I mean, you cant live with it. Yes. You cant live with it. If its pretty bleak, and its been going on for two and a half years now, and a half years now, how do you get out how do you get out of bed, exactly . Of bed, exactly . How do you keep on going . How do you keep on going . And sometimes the only way of and sometimes the only way of dealing with it is make a joke. Dealing with it is make a joke. Even if you lose a leg. Even if you lose a leg. The image thats stuck the image thats stuck in my mind after watching in my mind after watching your documentary is that your documentary is that ukrainian soldier. Ukrainian soldier. From odesa. From odesa. He said, im from he said, im from odesa and this is. Odesa and this is. Who lost a leg, and then. Who lost a leg, and then he taped a little bluetooth he taped a little bluetooth speaker to his prosthetic leg. Speaker to his prosthetic leg. And i said, why did and i said, why did you do that . You do that . And he said, because i could. And he said, because i could. Because i could. Because i could. Stephen laughs stephen laughs as if i was an idiot. As if i was an idiot. And i loved that you shared and i loved that you shared it in the comedy club, it in the comedy club, and they all laughed, too. And they all laughed, too. Yes, they loved it, yes, they loved it, didnt they . Yeah. Didnt they . Yeah. What really struck me what really struck me about that interview about that interview is about how relaxed it seemed, is about how relaxed it seemed, that the president seemed very that the president seemed very relaxed, and whether that relaxed, and whether that reflected because the war has reflected because the war has gone on a long time and hes gone on a long time and hes gotten used to dealing with it. Gotten used to dealing with it. And i dont know whether if off and i dont know whether if off camera, and you may not camera, and you may not be able to share it, be able to share it, whether you discuss with him whether you discuss with him because he knew you were there because he knew you were there for the Mental Health conference did he share with you . Because the family has openly discussed how stressful it is. You know, zelenska has said when i visited her in kyiv that, at that time. Well, president zelensky, he said he sometimes doesnt see his family for months and months and months. Yes. And even to have for the Mental Health dinner with them. Theyve made it no secret that they would rather not be in thisjob. Commander in chief, although, of course, hes a politician, as well. On that point. Yes. Ive got a question on that point. Obviously, you and president Zelensky Share a bit of a background in comedy. Yes. Does that help or hinder him in his role as a commander in chief, as commander in chief, as president . Yeah. President . Yeah. How does he deal with it . How does he deal with it . I think it helps. I think it helps. I think the nature of comedy i think the nature of comedy is always you distrust is always you distrust and mock the abstract, and mock the abstract, the grand, the grandiose, and the grand, the grandiose, and you seek to find the reality. You seek to find the reality. So, when someone says, people are feeling this. Oh, he thanked me for coming oh, he thanked me for coming for that purpose, and said how important it was, and what an incredibly important issue it was to him and to madam zelenska. And, i mean, my guess is that when messaging the troops, he would pass it in front of a few advisers, one of whom would say its a hostage to fortune to say, you know, we know that you are for that purpose, and said suffering mentally with this. Its. You know, you do it in other ways, maybe in personal visits and so on, and you let it be known through the structure of your army and through your medical cause and so on. That there is help there. And you see it wherever you go, as i suppose my Grandparents Generation did after the first World War, just endless people with missing legs and limbs and so on. And the mental equivalent, the urgent case of what used to be called shellshock and is now ptsd and various other names are given to that, and the ripples spread outwards, as i say, transgenerationally and across the nation. But the urgency, i suppose, is with those who have served on the front and are injured in the mind as well as in the body. What would you say to people who are grieving, anxious, depressed . What would your message to them be . What do you think they should do to survive . Well. If i could say something that allowed them to step out of that feeling, i would be the greatest Mental Health doctor who ever lived. The important thing i often say is. While it is true that a mental Health Condition and a Mental Health crisis can be immensely serious, it can lead to, you know, physical ill health, it can lead to reaching out for drugs and alcohol to try and, you know, quell the storm in their head, it can lead to outbursts of violence, it can. Your family can lose faith in you, it can be terribly serious. But also it is worth remembering that some of the finest and best people in the world, some of the greatest artists, and creators, and inventors, and indeed soldiers, leaders Winston Churchill being one example suffered from severe Mental Health crises in their lives. You can have this and be a great Human Being with a fulfilled life, a life of love and hope. And think of it, if you can, as being like the weather, which is to say, its real. When its pouring with rain, its no good saying, oh, it isnt really raining. It is raining. But also you didnt cause that rain. The rain isnt your fault. And you can be damn certain, even if you live in manchester, that the rain will go away, that it may be sunny. Not tomorrow, not the day after. You wont make it sunny. Theres nothing you can do to make the rain go away, except recognise that its real and that it isnt your fault. Its not something thats a weakness in you. Its an external thing. Its a thing thats happening to you. And it will go away, and then itll come back. Youve got to be realistic about it. But if you can have that sort of attitude to it, then you start, as you do with terrible weather, to find ways of coping with it. Oh, its going to come back. Whats my mental umbrella for when it comes back, as it were . Those are. I mean, theyre not answers. As i say, the tears still roll, the body still trembles with unhappiness, and the people one loves are upset with one, too, but it is a sort of way of beginning to cope, i think. Thanks for coming. Its a real pleasure, and all power to you. Its a wonderful podcast, and ive listened before and i will carry on listening. And you are, as david frost, the great broadcaster, used to say he was the son of a preacher you are doing the lords work. Thank you. Dya kuyu. Thank you. Dziekuje. Oh, thats polish. And that was Stephen Fry in conversation with me, lyse doucet, and Vitaly Shevchenko on the bbc podcast ukrainecast. If youd like to listen to other episodes, you can find them on bbc sounds. Ukrainecast from bbc news. Hello. Its a new month and that means meterologically speaking a new season. We have gone into autumn. Whilst it may have looked a little light at first thing this morning in herefordshire missed that we have Summer Storms in the forecast. We have seen this plume of cloud moving north out of france across the English Channel bringing us some very warm and humid air and some thundery downpours. Those storms will continue to move north across Southern England into the midlands and parts of Northern England again downpours and frequent Lightning And Hail and gusty wind and may be the risk of localised flooding and heavy showers and thunderstorms in eastern areas. Further north northmore Drive Temperature is 15 to 21 degrees but very warm in the south east, the temperatures here reaching 29 celsius. Through tonight those storms will continue for the time and drift northward and you may see further downpours develop to some parts of wales and south West England and the midlands and the Odd Rumble of thunder could roll out. Another warm and humid night across southern areas with temperatures around 17 or 18 degrees and even across Scotland A little more mild compared to the last couple of nights. Into monday, low pressure across the uk and the fact you can see a couple of Weather Fronts bringing some very unsettled weather so there will be showers and longer spells of rain and storms again moving north and eastward so a lot of rainfall through the course of the day which could lead to localised flooding particularly through Northern England in central eastern scotland. Some sunny spells in the South Eeast with a few showers here and temperatured still up in the Mid 20s across the South Rast but in the north highs on monday 17 degrees to 19 degrees. For the rest of the week we have High Pressure in the atlantic and High Pressure into scandinavia. In between the stop at low pressure across europe which will give us unsettled weather particularly towards southern areas of the uk. Further north High Pressure tends to hold on a little bit though it will be largely fine across scotland through the week and for the south a bit more than with rain at times and temperatures 17 degrees to 22 degrees. Live from london. This is bbc news. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu promises tosettle the score� after the bodies of six israeli hostages captured by hamas are found in tunnels beneath the city Of Rafah. Gazas Mass Polio Vaccination campaign Parents Queue to have their children protected against the crippling disease. The rise of the far right in germany. People in the Countys East are voting with an anti immigration party on track for a landmark win. And European Airports reintroduce carry on liquid rules. So when will travellers see the end of the restriction . Hello. The israeli military has confirmed that six bodies found in a tunnel in the city Of Rafah in gaza were those of hostages taken by hamas in the October The 7th attack. Theyve been named as alexander lobanov, eden yerushalmi, almog sarusi, carmel gat, hersh goldberg polin, who was an american citizen, and ori danino. Israel will not rest until it catches those responsible. My wife and i share and a heavy growth of the families. We all mourn with them. I want to express deep appreciation to ourforces, to the brave soldiers of the ibf, and the fighters who risk their lives to bring back our sons and