Transcripts For BBCNEWS Politics 20240627

officials about the pressures on hospitals. the timing has been criticised by both the health secretary and nhs bosses, who say in the middle of an election campaign no party is in a position to negotiate. my opening question to all of you is connect if keir starmer has ruled out meeting a 35% pay restoration demand byjunior doctors, with a change of government resolve anything? i doctors, with a change of government resolve anything?— resolve anything? i don't know. i have no idea _ resolve anything? i don't know. i have no idea what _ resolve anything? i don't know. i have no idea what level- resolve anything? i don't know. i have no idea what level keir- resolve anything? i don't know. i- have no idea what level keir starmer would settle this dispute. we have already been clear and raised salaries forjunior doctors by 9% this year. there have been negotiations for another 3% on top of that. they are fair figures. we have settled the nurses dispute and consultants. 35%, is it fairfor the taxpayer? i keep hearing from labour, we should settle as by now. at what cost to the taxpayer? would a chance in at what cost to the taxpayer? would a change in government _ at what cost to the taxpayer? would a change in government make - at what cost to the taxpayer? would a change in government make any . a change in government make any difference if keir starmer and labour has willed out restoration over time, what difference would it make? i over time, what difference would it make? ., , ., ., make? i hope we get to find out. if we aet make? i hope we get to find out. if we get more _ make? i hope we get to find out. if we get more of _ make? i hope we get to find out. if we get more of the _ make? i hope we get to find out. if we get more of the same _ make? i hope we get to find out. if we get more of the same it - make? i hope we get to find out. if we get more of the same it will. we get more of the same it will carry— we get more of the same it will carry on— we get more of the same it will carry on exactly as it has been. the biggest _ carry on exactly as it has been. the biggest period of industrial strikes since _ biggest period of industrial strikes since the — biggest period of industrial strikes since the 1970s has been under this government. the whole series of industrial— government. the whole series of industrial action started out with grant _ industrial action started out with grant shapps refusing to meet with the unions — grant shapps refusing to meet with the unions for six months because he thought— the unions for six months because he thought it _ the unions for six months because he thought it would be difficult for laboun — thought it would be difficult for laboun a — thought it would be difficult for labour. a lot of what we are suffering _ labour. a lot of what we are suffering now has been saved by this government. they are picking up the pieces _ government. they are picking up the pieces wes— government. they are picking up the pieces. wes streeting has said he will pick— pieces. wes streeting has said he will pick up the phone straightaway if he becomes health secretary, he will start— if he becomes health secretary, he will start that process. he is willing — will start that process. he is willing to _ will start that process. he is willing to talk about some of the broader— willing to talk about some of the broader areas impacting this. it all needs— broader areas impacting this. it all needs to _ broader areas impacting this. it all needs to be on the table. you do not need _ needs to be on the table. you do not need to— needs to be on the table. you do not need to be _ needs to be on the table. you do not need to be soft, it can be a tough set of— need to be soft, it can be a tough set of negotiations. it is about statecraft, diligence and graft. and mone . all statecraft, diligence and graft. and money- all of _ statecraft, diligence and graft. and money. all of these _ statecraft, diligence and graft. and money. all of these things - statecraft, diligence and graft. and money. all of these things are - statecraft, diligence and graft. and money. all of these things are on | money. all of these things are on the table. money. all of these things are on the table- if _ money. all of these things are on the table. if you _ money. all of these things are on the table. if you get _ money. all of these things are on the table. if you get the - the table. if you get the statecraft, the diligence and graphic— statecraft, the diligence and graphic you can come out with a good deal for— graphic you can come out with a good deal for taxpayers, their workers and patients. i deal for taxpayers, their workers and patients-— deal for taxpayers, their workers and patients. i am not sure “unior doctors — and patients. i am not sure “unior doctors are interested h and patients. i am not sure “unior doctors are interested in h doctors are interested in statecraft, they are interested in more money. what wes streeting needs to say is where that money is coming from. where is the money coming from? from one place, from the taxpayer. from? from one place, from the taxa er. ,., . , taxpayer. this article in the times strikin: taxpayer. this article in the times striking doctors _ taxpayer. this article in the times striking doctors confident - taxpayer. this article in the times striking doctors confident that - striking doctors confident that labour is listening to pay demands. do you think a change of government might end the strikes? that do you think a change of government might end the strikes?— might end the strikes? that is interesting. — might end the strikes? that is interesting, it _ might end the strikes? that is interesting, it is _ might end the strikes? that is interesting, it is not _ might end the strikes? that is interesting, it is not the - interesting, it is not the impression i got from striking doctors i visited on picket lines this morning. they were nervous about it. labour does pose quite a risk to doctors fleeing the nhs and going to australia. if they are going to australia. if they are going to australia. if they are going to use private health care to smash through these waiting lists, it will cost a lot of money and take a lot of doctors out of service. it will put a real strain on the day to day for doctors and they are really concerned about it. wes streeting says he will meet with them and be ready to negotiate. he has also said he will not meet the pay demand of 35%. i do not think they do not meet that, they will resolve it.— that, they will resolve it. every negotiation _ that, they will resolve it. every negotiation is _ that, they will resolve it. every negotiation is give _ that, they will resolve it. every negotiation is give and - that, they will resolve it. every negotiation is give and take. if| that, they will resolve it. every - negotiation is give and take. if you look at _ negotiation is give and take. if you look at how— negotiation is give and take. if you look at how some of the other disputes— look at how some of the other disputes have been settled, even the nurses— disputes have been settled, even the nurses gave way as well because that is how— nurses gave way as well because that is how negotiations go. in terms of getting _ is how negotiations go. in terms of getting around the table and using the private sector, we are talking about _ the private sector, we are talking about using existing capacity in the private _ about using existing capacity in the private sector to lessen the burden on nhs _ private sector to lessen the burden on nhs doctors. the reason so many are fleeing _ on nhs doctors. the reason so many are fleeing is— on nhs doctors. the reason so many are fleeing is the nhs is broken, the experience of working and it is overstretched, they are understaffed and under _ overstretched, they are understaffed and under supported. the}r overstretched, they are understaffed and under supported.— and under supported. they know the rivate and under supported. they know the private sector _ and under supported. they know the private sector is _ and under supported. they know the private sector is already _ and under supported. they know the private sector is already being - private sector is already being used. they are angry because they are saying you are not listening to us. there is no capacity to tap into. ~ ., ., ,, . ., into. we want to fix the nhs. we are not saying. — into. we want to fix the nhs. we are not saying. we _ into. we want to fix the nhs. we are not saying, we want _ into. we want to fix the nhs. we are not saying, we want to _ into. we want to fix the nhs. we are not saying, we want to use _ into. we want to fix the nhs. we are not saying, we want to use all- into. we want to fix the nhs. we are not saying, we want to use all the i not saying, we want to use all the capacity— not saying, we want to use all the capacity the country has right now to make _ capacity the country has right now to make sure the nhs this fit to face the — to make sure the nhs this fit to face the future again. we to make sure the nhs this fit to face the future again.— to make sure the nhs this fit to face the future again. we are a week awa from face the future again. we are a week away from polling — face the future again. we are a week away from polling day _ face the future again. we are a week away from polling day and _ face the future again. we are a week away from polling day and we - face the future again. we are a week away from polling day and we can . face the future again. we are a week| away from polling day and we can see rishi sunak campaigning in derbyshire after the head—to—head debate last night. we'll be speaking to a correspondent who is following him today. what do you think of the headline, striking doctors confident labour is listening to pay demands despite the fact keir starmer and wes streeting have both ruled out a 35% pay restoration? i do wes streeting have both ruled out a 35% pay restoration?— 35% pay restoration? i do not think even 3596 pay restoration? i do not think even junior— 3596 pay restoration? i do not think even junior doctors _ 3596 pay restoration? i do not think even junior doctors expect - 3596 pay restoration? i do not think even junior doctors expect 3596. . 3596 pay restoration? i do not thinkl even junior doctors expect 3596. you even junior doctors expect 35%. you know that is not what you will get. at the astonishing if you got what you asked for immediately. you have to accept that labour is listening and wes streeting has said he will get around the table. they do not expect to get 35% in reality. labour has to settle less because what is the alternative? five more years of junior doctors strikes? the nhs salary bill overall is about 46% of the total nhs budget. the current date that the current government nhs plans as we expect over the next 15 years to have another i plans as we expect over the next 15 years to have anotheri million people working on nhs, such as the demand on the health service from an ageing population among other things. we have to be honest about the costs of the salary. that means 35% won't happen. labour does have to bring this to the resolution soon. . , , , , . soon. the last big set piece event if ou soon. the last big set piece event if you liked _ soon. the last big set piece event if you liked of _ soon. the last big set piece event if you liked of the _ soon. the last big set piece event if you liked of the election - if you liked of the election campaign between rishi sunak and keir starmer took place last night. hosted by the bbc and my colleague, michelle hussein. you can see them here, just ahead of the debate actually starting. the two main party leaders clashed over immigration, small boats and taxation. before we get to the substance of the policy debate, let's have a look at some of the front pages and their verdict. the daily telegraph. rishi sunak�*s need to voters, do not surrender britain to voters, do not surrender britain to labour. that was very much his message throughout the debate. in the guardian, prime minister and starmer clash over betting scandal in tetchy final tv debate. what starmer clash over betting scandal in tetchy final tv debate. what was our main in tetchy final tv debate. what was your main takeaway? _ in tetchy final tv debate. what was your main takeaway? it _ in tetchy final tv debate. what was your main takeaway? it was - in tetchy final tv debate. what was i your main takeaway? it was probably the strongest we have seen rishi sunak. i thought keir starmer did not seem to be expecting it. last week i felt keir starmer walked in as if he was the man and rishi sunak looked terrified and there was a bit of a flip. this gambling scandal, it is going to be probably one of the most important issues —— going to the ballot box. it is a sequence of events, partygate were drinking on the job events, partygate were drinking on thejob in parliament, gambling and sex scandals. this is what voters are thinking about and talking about. ., ., .,~ ., ., about. your main takeaway from last niuht? about. your main takeaway from last niht? i about. your main takeaway from last night? ithink— about. your main takeaway from last night? i think he _ about. your main takeaway from last night? i think he was _ about. your main takeaway from last night? i think he was right, - about. your main takeaway from last night? i think he was right, rishi - night? i think he was right, rishi sunak seemed _ night? i think he was right, rishi sunak seemed more _ night? i think he was right, rishi sunak seemed more confident. i night? i think he was right, rishi| sunak seemed more confident. a night? i think he was right, rishi - sunak seemed more confident. a lot of activists _ sunak seemed more confident. a lot of activists and campaigners up and down _ of activists and campaigners up and down the _ of activists and campaigners up and down the country will be thinking, where _ down the country will be thinking, where there's this guy six weeks ago? _ where there's this guy six weeks ago? we — where there's this guy six weeks ago? we could have done with him the whole _ ago? we could have done with him the whole time _ ago? we could have done with him the whole time putting forward a more confident— whole time putting forward a more confident and more aggressive defence — confident and more aggressive defence of his policies. if anyone chose _ defence of his policies. if anyone chose to — defence of his policies. if anyone chose to watch the football instead that was _ chose to watch the football instead that was probably the right decision. the public thinks it is dragging — decision. the public thinks it is dragging on and what really do you learn _ dragging on and what really do you learn about the series of head—to—head debates you do not learn _ head—to—head debates you do not learn from — head—to—head debates you do not learn from the first one? new issues come _ learn from the first one? new issues come up _ learn from the first one? new issues come up like — learn from the first one? new issues come up like the betting scandal. they— come up like the betting scandal. they are — come up like the betting scandal. they are generally thinking, which is dragging on and what really do you learn— is dragging on and what really do you learn about the series of head—to—head debates you do not learn _ head—to—head debates you do not learn from — head—to—head debates you do not learn from the first one? new issues come _ learn from the first one? new issues come up _ learn from the first one? new issues come up like — learn from the first one? new issues come up like the betting scandal. they— come up like the betting scandal. they are — come up like the betting scandal. they are generally thinking, rishi sunak— they are generally thinking, rishi sunak was— they are generally thinking, rishi sunak was more terms of messaging, nothing _ sunak was more terms of messaging, nothing really changed. a sunak was more terms of messaging, nothing really changed. its lot sunak was more terms of messaging, nothing really changed.— nothing really changed. a lot of eo - le nothing really changed. a lot of people are _ nothing really changed. a lot of people are still _ nothing really changed. a lot of people are still to _ nothing really changed. a lot of people are still to make - nothing really changed. a lot of people are still to make the - nothing really changed. a lot of l people are still to make the issue of some asylum seekers, as you know, to rwanda to deter people from crossing the channel in those beds. the first flights will leave later on in july, the first flights will leave later on injuly, rishi sunak says. keir starmer has pledged to scrap the scheme and will instead use counterterrorism powers to stop gangs smuggling people across the channel. let's get a flavour of that debate. the prime minister says he'll send them all to rwanda. the rwanda scheme takes a few hundred. it would take literally 300 years to get all the people here unlawfully to rwanda. so they're going to stay here. if elected, what would you do? what would you do with them? at the moment, they're not being processed. so they're sitting in hotels, which you are all paying for. they're not processed. and, as a result of not being processed, that means not a single one, even those that shouldn't be here can be returned anywhere. do you know where these people come from? he's not answering the question. you can see that. iran, syria, afghanistan. so when keir starmer says he's going to return people, is he going to sit down... are you going to sit down with the iranian ayatollahs? are you going to try and do a deal with the taliban? it's completely nonsensical. what you are saying, right? applause. you are taking... you are taking people forfools, right? i think that these people should not stay on our country, they will be on planes to rwanda. that's what i will do with. the problem is no flights to will and i had taken off. all the talk, no one has actually gone to rwanda. legislation has been resisted for months. 130 times. the tempo map legislation is notjust about rwanda. as part of that legislation, when people come across the channel, keir starmer does not understand it and fails to acknowledge it. they go into detention are not hotels. that is a key point and a deterrent in itself. it keir starmer takes over, he was scrap this legislation. all of these people will end up on our streets. he of these people will end up on our streets. .., of these people will end up on our streets. .. ., , streets. he came into this parliament _ streets. he came into this parliament with _ streets. he came into this parliament with a - streets. he came into this| parliament with a majority streets. he came into this i parliament with a majority of streets. he came into this - parliament with a majority of 18 you are blaming labourfor parliament with a majority of 18 you are blaming labour for delaying the bill going _ are blaming labour for delaying the bill going through parliament. the reason _ bill going through parliament. the reason is — bill going through parliament. the reason is because how many of your mps voted _ reason is because how many of your mps voted against your legislation? a handful _ mps voted against your legislation? a handful. 16 mps voted against your legislation? a handful. ' ~ ., ., ., , mps voted against your legislation? ahandful. ., ., ., , ' a handful. 16 voted against. 12 voted against _ a handful. 16 voted against. 12 voted against and _ a handful. 16 voted against. 12 voted against and 16 _ a handful. 16 voted against. 12 | voted against and 16 abstained. a handful. 16 voted against. 12 - voted against and 16 abstained. the problem _ voted against and 16 abstained. the problem was not labour holding it up. problem was not labour holding it up you _ problem was not labour holding it up. you have a massive majority and you have _ up. you have a massive majority and you have people on your own side trving _ you have people on your own side trying to— you have people on your own side trying to delay this legislation. we said it _ trying to delay this legislation. we said it was — trying to delay this legislation. we said it was unworkable, it was unpractical and would not work. it hasn't _ unpractical and would not work. it hasn't we — unpractical and would not work. it hasn't. we predicted this bill would not lead _ hasn't. we predicted this bill would not lead to— hasn't. we predicted this bill would not lead to flights taking off or a deterrent. flight had not taken off, there _ deterrent. flight had not taken off, there is— deterrent. flight had not taken off, there is no— deterrent. flight had not taken off, there is no deterrent because we have _ there is no deterrent because we have just — there is no deterrent because we have just had the highest seven months — have just had the highest seven months. , ., , ., months. peter is right and it is not a deterrent- _ months. peter is right and it is not a deterrent. legislation _ months. peter is right and it is not a deterrent. legislation is - months. peter is right and it is not a deterrent. legislation is not - a deterrent. legislation is not workinu. a deterrent. legislation is not working. let's _ a deterrent. legislation is not working. let's stop _ a deterrent. legislation is not working. let's stop the - a deterrent. legislation is not working. let's stop the boats| a deterrent. legislation is not - working. let's stop the boats coming over in— working. let's stop the boats coming over in the _ working. let's stop the boats coming over in the first place. why can the bbc go _ over in the first place. why can the bbc go and — over in the first place. why can the bbc go and find the people smugglers, talk to them but our police _ smugglers, talk to them but our police force cannot? we do not have a border— police force cannot? we do not have a border security command that can io a border security command that can go over— a border security command that can go over there and use terror legislation. the bbc is tracking down _ legislation. the bbc is tracking down these people but this british government is not. they do not have the power— government is not. they do not have the power is — government is not. they do not have the power is all the resources because — the power is all the resources because they are all focused on things— because they are all focused on things fail, fail, fail.— things fail, fail, fail. what is our things fail, fail, fail. what is your response _ things fail, fail, fail. what is your response to _ things fail, fail, fail. what is your response to peter- things fail, fail, fail. what is. your response to peter saying things fail, fail, fail. what is . your response to peter saying it things fail, fail, fail. what is - your response to peter saying it is not acting as a deterrent? we talked about rwanda embassy in terms of deporting people coming here to have applications processed there. a record number of people across the channel in 2026. —— have crossed the channel. it is not working as a deterrent. channel. it is not working as a deterrent-— channel. it is not working as a deterrent. ~ ., ., , ., deterrent. we quoted last night from --eole over deterrent. we quoted last night from people over in _ deterrent. we quoted last night from people over in calais, _ deterrent. we quoted last night from people over in calais, who _ deterrent. we quoted last night from people over in calais, who are - people over in calais, who are saying this is a deterrent. the numbers do — saying this is a deterrent. the numbers do not _ saying this is a deterrent. the numbers do not back it up. saying this is a deterrent. the | numbers do not back it up. we saying this is a deterrent. the - numbers do not back it up. we have also read reports _ numbers do not back it up. we have also read reports about _ numbers do not back it up. we have also read reports about people - numbers do not back it up. we have| also read reports about people going to ireland rather than the uk. it is a deterrent already. there is not big as they think this lot will get into power and opened the doors wide open. that is the problem. if they go into power, they will get rwanda working and it will not have the effect. , ' . ., .., working and it will not have the effect. m. ., working and it will not have the effect. m. effect. difficult to come back on that. effect. difficult to come back on that- people — effect. difficult to come back on that. people are _ effect. difficult to come back on that. people are not _ effect. difficult to come back on that. people are not sitting - effect. difficult to come back on that. people are not sitting in l that. people are not sitting in calais — that. people are not sitting in calais in — that. people are not sitting in calais in tents and talking about a potential— calais in tents and talking about a potential keir starmer government. 0h, potential keir starmer government. oh. yes, _ potential keir starmer government. oh, yes, they are. i went down to wethersfield, a detention centre, a couple of weeks a-o detention centre, a couple of weeks ago and _ detention centre, a couple of weeks ago and the people there, there are hundreds— ago and the people there, there are hundreds of people not processed yet and they— hundreds of people not processed yet and they are free to walk across the villages— and they are free to walk across the villages there so you make the argument that keir starmer get into government, and men are walking across— government, and men are walking across the — government, and men are walking across the country, there are already— across the country, there are already people suffering, waiting for their claims to be processed but also free _ for their claims to be processed but also free to — for their claims to be processed but also free to walk around so you cannot — also free to walk around so you cannot make the argument, you are the purveyor of law and order and when _ the purveyor of law and order and when it— the purveyor of law and order and when it comes to keir starmer there will be _ when it comes to keir starmer there will be hundreds of thousands of migrants — will be hundreds of thousands of migrants walking around the country. detention— migrants walking around the country. detention is a deterrent, of course, going to rwanda is a deterrent, the change in legislation has only been affected because of the delays forced upon us by the opposition, fact. ., ., ., forced upon us by the opposition, fact. ., ~ ., ., , ., ., fact. you know that is not true and --eole at fact. you know that is not true and people at the _ fact. you know that is not true and people at the moment _ fact. you know that is not true and people at the moment are - fact. you know that is not true and | people at the moment are suffering catastrophic mental health issues in detention— catastrophic mental health issues in detention centres waiting to be processed and you are leaving them there _ processed and you are leaving them there. ., ., ., , ,, there. you have to process those --eole there. you have to process those people more _ there. you have to process those people more quickly _ there. you have to process those people more quickly but - there. you have to process those people more quickly but they - there. you have to process those i people more quickly but they need there. you have to process those - people more quickly but they need to deter them in the first place. 36,000 asylum seekers and hotels i’ili'it 36,000 asylum seekers and hotels right now — 36,000 asylum seekers and hotels riaht now. �* ., .., ,., 36,000 asylum seekers and hotels riahtnow. �* ., right now. before i come, you say there is 36,000 _ right now. before i come, you say there is 36,000 people _ right now. before i come, you say there is 36,000 people waiting i right now. before i come, you sayi there is 36,000 people waiting to right now. before i come, you say i there is 36,000 people waiting to be processed but what is the answer from the labour party to the question for rishi sunak and it was put to keir starmer in another debate about the terms, people who come here from iran, syria and afghanistan. how would it work? the first thing is, the whole premise of the debate — first thing is, the whole premise of the debate so _ first thing is, the whole premise of the debate so far— first thing is, the whole premise of the debate so far has— first thing is, the whole premise of the debate so far has been- first thing is, the whole premise of the debate so far has been for- first thing is, the whole premise of the debate so far has been for thei the debate so far has been for the labour— the debate so far has been for the labour party— the debate so far has been for the labour party do _ the debate so far has been for the labour party do to _ the debate so far has been for the labour party do to tackle - the debate so far has been for the labour party do to tackle the - labour party do to tackle the problem _ labour party do to tackle the problem caused _ labour party do to tackle the problem caused by— labour party do to tackle the problem caused by the - labour party do to tackle the i problem caused by the previous government— problem caused by the previous government and _ problem caused by the previous government and there - problem caused by the previous government and there is - problem caused by the previous government and there is an - government and there is an assumption— government and there is an assumption that _ government and there is an assumption that the - government and there is an assumption that the labour government and there is an - assumption that the labour party will be _ assumption that the labour party will be in — assumption that the labour party will be in a — assumption that the labour party will be in a place _ assumption that the labour party will be in a place to— assumption that the labour party will be in a place to do— assumption that the labour party will be in a place to do it - assumption that the labour party will be in a place to do it and - will be in a place to do it and there — will be in a place to do it and there will— will be in a place to do it and there will be _ will be in a place to do it and there will be no _ will be in a place to do it and there will be no change - will be in a place to do it and i there will be no change unless people — there will be no change unless people get— there will be no change unless people get out _ there will be no change unless people get out there - there will be no change unless people get out there and - there will be no change unless people get out there and vote| people get out there and vote for us. people get out there and vote for us the _ people get out there and vote for us the answer— people get out there and vote for us. the answer to _ people get out there and vote for us. the answer to the _ people get out there and vote for us. the answer to the question. people get out there and vote for us. the answer to the question is how will— us. the answer to the question is how will you _ us. the answer to the question is how will you fix _ us. the answer to the question is how will you fix the _ us. the answer to the question is how will you fix the problem - us. the answer to the question is| how will you fix the problem rishi sunak— how will you fix the problem rishi sunak created _ how will you fix the problem rishi sunak created is... _ how will you fix the problem rishi sunak created is... [m _ how will you fix the problem rishi sunak created is. . ._ how will you fix the problem rishi sunak created is... i'm not sure he created it — sunak created is... i'm not sure he created it but _ sunak created is... i'm not sure he created it but can _ sunak created is... i'm not sure he created it but can you _ sunak created is... i'm not sure he created it but can you answer - sunak created is... i'm not sure he created it but can you answer the i created it but can you answer the question where were the migrants go back to if you do not have a return agreement with the ayatollahs as rishi sunak said, the taleban in afghanistan and the syrian government?— afghanistan and the syrian government? afghanistan and the syrian rovernment? , government? the first thing we will do to stop the _ government? the first thing we will do to stop the small— government? the first thing we will do to stop the small boats - government? the first thing we will do to stop the small boats and - government? the first thing we will do to stop the small boats and we i do to stop the small boats and we will take _ do to stop the small boats and we will take action _ do to stop the small boats and we will take action against _ do to stop the small boats and we will take action against them. - do to stop the small boats and we i will take action against them. then we will— will take action against them. then we will start — will take action against them. then we will start the _ will take action against them. then we will start the process _ will take action against them. then we will start the process of - will take action against them. then we will start the process of what i we will start the process of what this government _ we will start the process of what this government has _ we will start the process of what this government has not - we will start the process of what this government has not done i we will start the process of what this government has not done isi this government has not done is start— this government has not done is start processing _ this government has not done is start processing them. - this government has not done is start processing them. we - this government has not done is start processing them. we do i this government has not done is. start processing them. we do not know— start processing them. we do not know because _ start processing them. we do not know because there _ start processing them. we do not know because there are - start processing them. we do not know because there are 36,000 i start processing them. we do not - know because there are 36,000 people in hotels, _ know because there are 36,000 people in hotels, £8 _ know because there are 36,000 people in hotels, £8 million _ know because there are 36,000 people in hotels, £8 million a _ know because there are 36,000 people in hotels, £8 million a day, _ know because there are 36,000 people in hotels, £8 million a day, not - in hotels, £8 million a day, not processed _ in hotels, £8 million a day, not processed and _ in hotels, £8 million a day, not processed and we _ in hotels, £8 million a day, not processed and we need - in hotels, £8 million a day, not processed and we need to - in hotels, £8 million a day, not processed and we need to start in hotels, £8 million a day, not - processed and we need to start the process— processed and we need to start the process of— processed and we need to start the process of getting _ processed and we need to start the process of getting them _ processed and we need to start the process of getting them processedl processed and we need to start the . process of getting them processed so we don't _ process of getting them processed so we don't know— process of getting them processed so we don't know what _ process of getting them processed so we don't know what they _ process of getting them processed so we don't know what they are - process of getting them processed so we don't know what they are from, i we don't know what they are from, who has— we don't know what they are from, who has the — we don't know what they are from, who has the right _ we don't know what they are from, who has the right to _ we don't know what they are from, who has the right to be _ we don't know what they are from, who has the right to be here, - we don't know what they are from, who has the right to be here, whol who has the right to be here, who needs— who has the right to be here, who needs to — who has the right to be here, who needs to porting _ who has the right to be here, who needs to porting and _ who has the right to be here, who needs to porting and until- who has the right to be here, who needs to porting and until we - who has the right to be here, whol needs to porting and until we know this how— needs to porting and until we know this how can— needs to porting and until we know this how can we _ needs to porting and until we know this how can we start _ needs to porting and until we know this how can we start answering. needs to porting and until we knowl this how can we start answering the question— this how can we start answering the question specifically— this how can we start answering the question specifically you _ this how can we start answering the question specifically you are - question specifically you are asking? _ question specifically you are asking? we _ question specifically you are asking? we don't _ question specifically you are asking? we don't know- question specifically you are asking? we don't know how| question specifically you are - asking? we don't know how many people _ asking? we don't know how many people need — asking? we don't know how many people need to _ asking? we don't know how many people need to be _ asking? we don't know how many people need to be returned - asking? we don't know how many people need to be returned but. asking? we don't know how manyl people need to be returned but we will get _ people need to be returned but we will get svstems _ people need to be returned but we will get systems in _ people need to be returned but we will get systems in place _ people need to be returned but we will get systems in place and - people need to be returned but wei will get systems in place and plans for returns — will get systems in place and plans for returns and _ will get systems in place and plans for returns and will _ will get systems in place and plans for returns and will start _ will get systems in place and plans for returns and will start working . for returns and will start working with eu — for returns and will start working with eu colleagues... _ for returns and will start working with eu colleagues... fis- for returns and will start working with eu colleagues... is l- for returns and will start working with eu colleagues. . ._ for returns and will start working with eu colleagues... as i say, we do not know _ with eu colleagues... as i say, we do not know how _ with eu colleagues... as i say, we do not know how the _ with eu colleagues... as i say, we do not know how the returns - with eu colleagues... as i say, we do not know how the returns will i do not know how the returns will work but the overarching question, paraphrased from last night that has been a theme, why cannot the government protect the borders? i'm not asking you fly but it's interesting, do you listen to the politicians here and think that will never be answered? i politicians here and think that will never be answered?— politicians here and think that will never be answered? i think there are lots of measures _ never be answered? i think there are lots of measures that _ never be answered? i think there are lots of measures that can _ never be answered? i think there are lots of measures that can be - lots of measures that can be introduced to try and stop the channel crossings. the idea that either the keir starmer or rishi sunak plan is working is clearly untrue, record numbers, tracking above 22 which is the record year for arrivals already. i think one of the reasons rishi sunak wandered the election now is not have a summer of code weather when people were arriving in record numbers every day and i think people are concerned about immigration, they differentiate between legal and illegal because rishi sunak and the conservative party played into the boats for many months and years. illegal migration is dwarfing... legal migration is dwarfing illegal migration. the impact on education, infrastructure, housing. the question — infrastructure, housing. the question if— infrastructure, housing. the question if it _ infrastructure, housing. the question if it was _ infrastructure, housing. the question if it was bought at the solutions? look at the solutions from _ solutions? look at the solutions from the — solutions? look at the solutions from the labour party, smash the gangs _ from the labour party, smash the gangs but — from the labour party, smash the gangs but it is nonsensical. you play _ gangs but it is nonsensical. you play it _ gangs but it is nonsensical. you play it is— gangs but it is nonsensical. you play it is nonsensical. you plate whack _ play it is nonsensical. you plate whack a — play it is nonsensical. you plate whack a mole for decades, we've done it for decades, we closed down 82 gangs _ it for decades, we closed down 82 gangs are — it for decades, we closed down 82 gangs are ready but your strategy is simply— gangs are ready but your strategy is simply saying we will arrest you. often _ simply saying we will arrest you. often in — simply saying we will arrest you. often in places like iran, it's not practical. — often in places like iran, it's not practical, peter, i'm sorry. everybody is willing to listen to it but you _ everybody is willing to listen to it but you need a deterrent and this is it. �* , ., ~ but you need a deterrent and this is it. let's talk about taxation. rishi sunak and keir _ it. let's talk about taxation. rishi sunak and keir starmer _ it. let's talk about taxation. rishi sunak and keir starmer clashed l it. let's talk about taxation. rishi i sunak and keir starmer clashed over this issue but specifically whether or not labour would bring in what rishi sunak called a retirement tax. the position on pensioners and tax we set _ the position on pensioners and tax we set out — the position on pensioners and tax we set out is exactly the same, the position— we set out is exactly the same, the position of— we set out is exactly the same, the position of the government at the last budget, it is their position. the prime _ last budget, it is their position. the prime minister says i will change — the prime minister says i will change that. when asked where the money— change that. when asked where the money is _ change that. when asked where the money is coming from the chancellor says the _ money is coming from the chancellor says the money is being spent that is not _ says the money is being spent that is not there, making the same mistake — is not there, making the same mistake again but can i address the iss mistake again but can i address the iss point _ mistake again but can i address the iss oint. ., . ., , , ., 155 point. you are a pensioner, you know there — 155 point. you are a pensioner, you know there is _ 155 point. you are a pensioner, you know there is a _ 155 point. you are a pensioner, you know there is a retirement - 155 point. you are a pensioner, you know there is a retirement tax - know there is a retirement tax coming — know there is a retirement tax coming from _ know there is a retirement tax coming from you. _ know there is a retirement tax coming from you, if— know there is a retirement tax coming from you, if he - know there is a retirement tax coming from you, if he is- know there is a retirement tax coming from you, if he is youri know there is a retirement tax - coming from you, if he is your prime minister~ _ coming from you, if he is your prime minister~ he — coming from you, if he is your prime minister. .., coming from you, if he is your prime minister. , ., , ., :: minister. he can promise ten or 20 tax cuts but _ minister. he can promise ten or 20 tax cuts but he _ minister. he can promise ten or 20 tax cuts but he cannot _ minister. he can promise ten or 20 tax cuts but he cannot tell - minister. he can promise ten or 20 tax cuts but he cannot tell us... . minister. he can promise ten or 20i tax cuts but he cannot tell us... he will not match the triple lock and if i will not match the triple lock and if i am _ will not match the triple lock and if i am your— will not match the triple lock and if i am your prime _ will not match the triple lock and if i am your prime minister- will not match the triple lock and if i am your prime minister this i if i am your prime minister this will not — if i am your prime minister this will not happen _ if i am your prime minister this will not happen. do _ if i am your prime minister this will not happen. do not - if i am your prime minister this i will not happen. do not surrender your finances _ will not happen. do not surrender your finances to _ will not happen. do not surrender your finances to their— will not happen. do not surrender your finances to their tax - will not happen. do not surrender your finances to their tax rises. . your finances to their tax rises. the triple — your finances to their tax rises. the triple lock _ your finances to their tax rises. the triple lock plus _ your finances to their tax rises. the triple lock plus policy- your finances to their tax rises. | the triple lock plus policy which raises the personal allowance for pensioners by 2027, it would only say someone living on the state pension around £29 a year. today, of course, pension around £29 a year. today, of course. the — pension around £29 a year. today, of course, the higher— pension around £29 a year. today, of course, the higher the... _ pension around £29 a year. today, of course, the higher the. .. if— pension around £29 a year. today, of course, the higher the. .. if you - pension around £29 a year. today, of course, the higher the. .. if you win i course, the higher the. .. if you win the election — course, the higher the. .. if you win the election you _ course, the higher the. .. if you win the election you will _ course, the higher the. .. if you win the election you will keep - course, the higher the. .. if you win the election you will keep raising . the election you will keep raising tax thresholds beyond 28? i the election you will keep raising tax thresholds beyond 28? i cannot sa we tax thresholds beyond 28? i cannot say we were _ tax thresholds beyond 28? i cannot say we were definitely _ tax thresholds beyond 28? i cannot say we were definitely do _ tax thresholds beyond 28? i cannot say we were definitely do that - tax thresholds beyond 28? i cannot say we were definitely do that but i say we were definitely do that but thatis say we were definitely do that but that is the commitment thus far and it's important we raise tax to pay back the debt from the pandemic and i hear this a lot, people do not want to see the pension tax. if i hear this a lot, people do not want to see the pension tax. if they don't want to _ want to see the pension tax. if they don't want to see _ want to see the pension tax. if they don't want to see a _ want to see the pension tax. if they don't want to see a taxed _ want to see the pension tax. if they don't want to see a taxed why - want to see the pension tax. if they don't want to see a taxed why don'ti don't want to see a taxed why don't you unfreeze the tax thresholds? you are introducing a policy to offset another policy so introducing a triple lock plus to offset the policy of raising tax thresholds which has led to more pensioners and others being dragged into paying tax. , , , , others being dragged into paying tax. , , ., others being dragged into paying tax. ,, ., ,, tax. yes, because she cannot spend £500 billion — tax. yes, because she cannot spend £500 billion of — tax. yes, because she cannot spend £500 billion of taxpayer _ tax. yes, because she cannot spend £500 billion of taxpayer money - £500 billion of taxpayer money helping people through the crisis of the pandemic, 600,000 businesses would have gone bust, millions of jobs lost had we not done that. you cannot spend that sort of money without getting it back. what we are trying to do is get it back in a progressive way and this is the most progressive way and this is the most progressive way and this is the most progressive way to do it. the average earner in this country pays record lows of tax as a percentage of marginal rates, record in the last 50 years because we try to make sure... , �* , ., last 50 years because we try to make sure... , �*, ., .,, sure... the thing is it's got to be set against _ sure... the thing is it's got to be set against the _ sure... the thing is it's got to be set against the bigger _ sure... the thing is it's got to be set against the bigger and - sure... the thing is it's got to be | set against the bigger and overall tax burden. i'm sure viewers will hear what we said but actually there is an honest response, peter, if the labour party become government on the basis of a trap, pensioners will pay more tax?— pay more tax? more tax that this government _ pay more tax? more tax that this government has _ pay more tax? more tax that this government has introduced. - pay more tax? more tax that this government has introduced. but| pay more tax? more tax that this . government has introduced. but you will continue — government has introduced. but you will continue the _ government has introduced. but you will continue the tax _ government has introduced. but you will continue the tax threshold? - will continue the tax threshold? there is no greater example of why the country is desperate for change, than a prime minister standing up and hysterically screaming and another business minister coming into the studios and campaigning against a policy they introduced in the last year. as if this was a labour party policy but what we have done is, you are campaigning against your own policy. say you would scrap it and challenging us to say whether we will scrap it. what we have gone through this campaign is been really upfront about the challenges, the death of the challenges the country faces fa labour party government comes in. pensioners will pay more tax? we are doing everything possible to stabilise the economy and reform it. we have to be serious. l and reform it. we have to be serious. , ., , serious. i 'ust said to kevin this is a serious. ijust said to kevin this is a policy _ serious. ijust said to kevin this is a policy to — serious. ijust said to kevin this is a policy to offset _ serious. ijust said to kevin this is a policy to offset another. . serious. ijust said to kevin this i is a policy to offset another. more pensioners dragged into paying income tax, whether they are on state pension or state pension and their incomes but the honest response from labour is to say right or wrong we are not going to have a triple lock plus so pensioners will pay more tax? maybe a lot more? under the policy? brute pay more tax? maybe a lot more? under the policy?— under the policy? we are not accepting _ under the policy? we are not accepting this _ under the policy? we are not accepting this uncosted - under the policy? we are not accepting this uncosted and i under the policy? we are not - accepting this uncosted and unfunded promise by the tory party but what we are doing is focusing on the economy overall, but who will benefit most? those lower income people and those living later in life his utility bills every household will fall by £350 over the course of a parliament. that's one example of how the labour party is getting a grip on the economy and making sure those who need it most will benefit. issues to do with the pensions going forward will be the responsibility of the chancellor and once we get growth into the economy after years of stagnant growth or negative growth, we will be able to invest more. negative growth, we will be able to invest more-— invest more. there has been a conspiracy _ invest more. there has been a conspiracy of _ invest more. there has been a conspiracy of silence _ invest more. there has been a conspiracy of silence over - invest more. there has been a conspiracy of silence over big i conspiracy of silence over big tax—and—spend promises but how important is the discussion when it comes to pensioners? hat important is the discussion when it comes to pensioners?— comes to pensioners? not 'ust pensioners, tax and i comes to pensioners? not 'ust pensioners, tax and spendh comes to pensioners? notjust pensioners, tax and spend is l pensioners, tax and spend is incredibly— pensioners, tax and spend is incredibly important. specifically on tri - le incredibly important. specifically on triple lock— incredibly important. specifically on triple lock plus. _ incredibly important. specifically on triple lock plus. it _ incredibly important. specifically on triple lock plus. it makes - incredibly important. specifically i on triple lock plus. it makes sense from the conservative _ on triple lock plus. it makes sense from the conservative party - on triple lock plus. it makes sense from the conservative party to - from the conservative party to promise — from the conservative party to promise something for pensioners because _ promise something for pensioners because the average age of a conservative voter is approaching pension— conservative voter is approaching pension age if not heading it in worst— pension age if not heading it in worst case _ pension age if not heading it in worst case scenario predictions. what _ worst case scenario predictions. what we — worst case scenario predictions. what we are not talking about is the fact what _ what we are not talking about is the fact what is — what we are not talking about is the fact what is termed geriatric spending, i don't like that, spending, i don't like that, spending on older people, spending on pensions, social care, age—related health care is roughly 10% of— age—related health care is roughly 10% of our— age—related health care is roughly 10% of our gdp so to maintain that over the _ 10% of our gdp so to maintain that over the next 50 years we need to grow _ over the next 50 years we need to grow the _ over the next 50 years we need to grow the economy by 2.9% every year and over— grow the economy by 2.9% every year and over the _ grow the economy by 2.9% every year and over the last number of years the economy has grown by 2.9% twice so we _ the economy has grown by 2.9% twice so we need _ the economy has grown by 2.9% twice so we need a — the economy has grown by 2.9% twice so we need a bigger conversation how we afford _ so we need a bigger conversation how we afford all state spending not 'ust we afford all state spending not just as — we afford all state spending not just as one measure. is we afford all state spending not just as one measure. is it we afford all state spending not just as one measure.— we afford all state spending not just as one measure. is it a trap for labour? _ just as one measure. is it a trap for labour? where _ just as one measure. is it a trap for labour? where to _ just as one measure. is it a trap for labour? where to begin. - just as one measure. is it a trap| for labour? where to begin. i'm tired of talking _ for labour? where to begin. i'm tired of talking about _ for labour? where to begin. i'ml tired of talking about pensioners. it's tired of talking about pensioners. it's obvious — tired of talking about pensioners. it's obvious no _ tired of talking about pensioners. it's obvious no one _ tired of talking about pensioners. it's obvious no one should - tired of talking about pensioners. it's obvious no one should tax - tired of talking about pensioners. | it's obvious no one should tax the state _ it's obvious no one should tax the state pension, _ it's obvious no one should tax the state pension, blindingly- it's obvious no one should tax the state pension, blindingly obviousl state pension, blindingly obvious and i_ state pension, blindingly obvious and i think— state pension, blindingly obvious and i think the _ state pension, blindingly obvious and i think the conversation- state pension, blindingly obviousl and i think the conversation we're having _ and i think the conversation we're having our— and i think the conversation we're having our own _ and i think the conversation we're having our own capital— and i think the conversation we're having our own capital gains - and i think the conversation we're having our own capital gains is . having our own capital gains is ridiculous, _ having our own capital gains is ridiculous, you've _ having our own capital gains is ridiculous, you've got- having our own capital gains is ridiculous, you've got to - having our own capital gains isi ridiculous, you've got to recoup having our own capital gains is - ridiculous, you've got to recoup the monev _ ridiculous, you've got to recoup the monev rishi — ridiculous, you've got to recoup the money. rishi sunak— ridiculous, you've got to recoup the money. rishi sunak could - ridiculous, you've got to recoup the money. rishi sunak could actually i ridiculous, you've got to recoup the i money. rishi sunak could actually be taxed _ money. rishi sunak could actually be taxed a _ money. rishi sunak could actually be taxed a lot— money. rishi sunak could actually be taxed a lot if— money. rishi sunak could actually be taxed a lot if you _ money. rishi sunak could actually be taxed a lot if you increase _ money. rishi sunak could actually be taxed a lot if you increase capital- taxed a lot if you increase capital gains _ taxed a lot if you increase capital gains tax — taxed a lot if you increase capital gains tax and _ taxed a lot if you increase capital gains tax and that _ taxed a lot if you increase capital gains tax and that would - taxed a lot if you increase capital gains tax and that would be - taxed a lot if you increase capital gains tax and that would be a - taxed a lot if you increase capital. gains tax and that would be a pretty -ood gains tax and that would be a pretty good way _ gains tax and that would be a pretty good way to — gains tax and that would be a pretty good way to recoup _ gains tax and that would be a pretty good way to recoup money- gains tax and that would be a pretty good way to recoup money rather. gains tax and that would be a pretty . good way to recoup money rather than --oin good way to recoup money rather than going after— good way to recoup money rather than going after people _ good way to recoup money rather than going after people and _ good way to recoup money rather than going after people and i'm _ good way to recoup money rather than going after people and i'm tired - good way to recoup money rather than going after people and i'm tired of- going after people and i'm tired of talking _ going after people and i'm tired of talking about _ going after people and i'm tired of talking about those _ going after people and i'm tired of talking about those under - going after people and i'm tired of talking about those under 35- going after people and i'm tired of talking about those under 35 who i talking about those under 35 who have to _ talking about those under 35 who have to pay — talking about those under 35 who have to pay student _ talking about those under 35 who have to pay student loan - talking about those under 35 who - have to pay student loan repayments which _ have to pay student loan repayments which comes — have to pay student loan repayments which comes as — have to pay student loan repayments which comes as a _ have to pay student loan repayments which comes as a tax _ have to pay student loan repayments which comes as a tax and _ have to pay student loan repayments which comes as a tax and it's - have to pay student loan repayments which comes as a tax and it's a - have to pay student loan repayments which comes as a tax and it's a lot i which comes as a tax and it's a lot of monev — which comes as a tax and it's a lot of monev young _ which comes as a tax and it's a lot of money. young people - which comes as a tax and it's a lot of money. young people earning i of money. young people earning 50.000 — of money. young people earning 50.000 and _ of money. young people earning £30,000 and paying _ of money. young people earning £30,000 and paying a _ of money. young people earning £30,000 and paying a high- of money. young people earning £30,000 and paying a high rate| of money. young people earning i £30,000 and paying a high rate of tax, £30,000 and paying a high rate of tax. the _ £30,000 and paying a high rate of tax, the equivalent— £30,000 and paying a high rate of tax, the equivalent of— £30,000 and paying a high rate of tax, the equivalent of what - £30,000 and paying a high rate of tax, the equivalent of what peoplei tax, the equivalent of what people on £80,000 — tax, the equivalent of what people on £80,000 earned _ tax, the equivalent of what people on £80,000 earned and _ tax, the equivalent of what people on £80,000 earned and it's- tax, the equivalent of what people on £80,000 earned and it's great| tax, the equivalent of what people i on £80,000 earned and it's great to talk about— on £80,000 earned and it's great to talk about pensioners _ on £80,000 earned and it's great to talk about pensioners and _ on £80,000 earned and it's great to talk about pensioners and i - on £80,000 earned and it's great to talk about pensioners and i know- talk about pensioners and i know they are — talk about pensioners and i know they are your— talk about pensioners and i know they are your main _ talk about pensioners and i know they are your main cohort - talk about pensioners and i know they are your main cohort but. talk about pensioners and i knowi they are your main cohort but for goodness' — they are your main cohort but for goodness' sake _ they are your main cohort but for goodness' sake you _ they are your main cohort but for goodness' sake you have - they are your main cohort but for goodness' sake you have a - they are your main cohort but for goodness' sake you have a lot. they are your main cohort but for goodness' sake you have a lot of| goodness' sake you have a lot of under— goodness' sake you have a lot of under 35— goodness' sake you have a lot of under 35 people _ goodness' sake you have a lot of under 35 people and _ goodness' sake you have a lot of under 35 people and it— goodness' sake you have a lot of under 35 people and it would - goodness' sake you have a lot of under 35 people and it would be| under 35 people and it would be great _ under 35 people and it would be great to— under 35 people and it would be great to speak _ under 35 people and it would be great to speak to _ under 35 people and it would be great to speak to them. - under 35 people and it would be great to speak to them. let’s i under 35 people and it would be great to speak to them. let's catch u . great to speak to them. let's catch u- with great to speak to them. let's catch up with damian _ great to speak to them. let's catch up with damian grammaticas - great to speak to them. let's catch up with damian grammaticas his i great to speak to them. let's catch i up with damian grammaticas his with the labour party today. what's going on? , ., , ., ., the labour party today. what's going on? , ., ., ., ,, on? interesting what you are talking about. on? interesting what you are talking about- young _ on? interesting what you are talking about. young people, _ on? interesting what you are talking about. young people, pensioners, l on? interesting what you are talking i about. young people, pensioners, tax and the economy. we are back on the bus, sir keir starmer hasjust and the economy. we are back on the bus, sir keir starmer has just got on so we are in the west midlands, he's been at a college talking to students here. labour are focusing on that today but the questions he got were interesting because that's what ties in with what you were talking about stop questions about student loans, university finance, universities desperately need, students saddled with debt, students read about harrison, worried about benefits, personal independence payments, one student asked sir keir starmer about that and he gave the sort of usual answers, said they had to make tough decisions so therefore he's had two on tuition fees, he's had to prioritise the nhs. much as he would like to address that. on the question is a college funding, he sort of pivoted back to talking about if you can help colleges with energy bills and costs come down, you can help students but that's not really a direct answer and that's part of the problem, that parties have addressing this. one student we talk to about the payment, we asked her at the end and she said she still worry because she feels concerned about her future trying to get into work but worried about sanctions that she might face in the future. , , , , ., ., sanctions that she might face in the future. , , , ., future. just briefly, the mood today in the labour _ future. just briefly, the mood today in the labour party _ future. just briefly, the mood today in the labour party come? - future. just briefly, the mood today in the labour party come? yes, - in the labour party come? yes, interesting- _ in the labour party come? yes, interesting. in _ in the labour party come? yes, interesting. in the _ in the labour party come? yes, interesting. in the press - in the labour party come? ye: interesting. in the press huddle after the event, keir starmer comes over and everyone gets a chance to put some questions to him and he was asked directly about the debate last night, how he thought it went and his answer was pretty good was his assessment. you would expect him to say that but the message he wanted to be taken away from that was he felt he was putting a positive case and that rishi sunak was putting a much more negative campaign. he was saying that's the position he wants to be in going into the last week of the campaign and putting a case for change. and so he feels relatively comfortable with that. of course he did say if was put to him, he faced a pretty tough questions and he said i welcome that because that's part of the cut and thrust of things. that's at least the sort of spin they want to put on it and interestingly, that is kind of the core message that they will home in on today, the final run in, the question and the message about this is about changes what the labour party will say, about getting out and making a difference by voting and making a difference by voting and wanting to say that they want to push and be hitting a positive message and not a defensive one. damian grammaticas, thank you so much. let's catch up with helen who is with rishi sunak and the conservative party campaign. somewhere in derbyshire, good afternoon! what has been the mood there? ., ., , ., , there? the mood this morning is re there? the mood this morning is pretty buoyant — there? the mood this morning is pretty buoyant amongst - there? the mood this morning is - pretty buoyant amongst conservatives as they came out, we are at a manufacturer in derbyshire and you might hear some banging in a second but rishi sunak has been doing a question and answer session with staff and there is a couple of things that were interesting. firstly, i think this is one of the more challenging question and answers that i've seen in this scenario. the very first question was how often 16 years of government, being asked for another conservative term when the lady who askedit conservative term when the lady who asked it said everything was worse thanit asked it said everything was worse than it had been in 2010 and asked him about the bank usage. the person who asked that came up with a follow—up of will you stop treating people in corridors and the last question was from a lady part of a group that the conservatives targeted hard in this election but margaret was a working pensioner and she asked rishi sunak why she had to pay tax on her earnings. he talked about the conservative policy on state pension, making sure people would not have to pay tax on state pension but he didn't really have an answerfor pension but he didn't really have an answer for that part of a question about how to be taxed on her earnings despite having paid on for so long so interesting to see that. he was clearly doubling down on the approach from the tv debate last night which seemed to serve him well, attacking labour and keir starmer, talking about him backing up starmer, talking about him backing up taxes. seem to work well last night but may not have worked so well in this kind of forum. speaking to some of the people afterwards, he has come here to talk to us, i do not want to know what labour is not going to do, i want to know what he is going to do for us. looks like the conservatives will be hammering home that strategy to polling day. maybe it has not played so well as it seemed to last night. interesting in terms of — it seemed to last night. interesting in terms of the _ it seemed to last night. interesting in terms of the approach _ it seemed to last night. interesting in terms of the approach by - it seemed to last night. interesting in terms of the approach by rishi i in terms of the approach by rishi sunak and the conservatives, depending on the audience of people they are talking to and the forum. you have an update on the ongoing gambling investigation, what is it? we had an update from the metropolitan police this morning to say they have reviewed the names of people who placed bets on the dates of the election the election timing, against the list of their officers. they have identified seven officers, including one officer who was arrested on suspicion of misconduct in public office. they also say that the gambling commission, they are going to look at some places. they are saying the gambling commission will keep taking the lead in the vast majority of cases that are being looked at, anything that falls squarely within the gambling act will be run by the gambling commission. the metropolitan police has said there will be a small number of cases where broader criminal investigation is required beyond the gambling act and they may take in other offences as well. thank you very much. how then, can i start with you? your colleague has reportedly put £8,000 on losing his seat at the election. you can see here, the bbc news story. you have put yourself a bet on the election outcome nationally some time ago. you said betting on yourself would be wrong. does that mean philip davies is wrong for his alleged that? ., ,., , davies is wrong for his alleged that? ., , davies is wrong for his alleged that? ., y ., ., that? you say reportedly. i do not know about _ that? you say reportedly. i do not know about the _ that? you say reportedly. i do not know about the details _ that? you say reportedly. i do not know about the details behind - that? you say reportedly. i do not i know about the details behind philip and he should have a chance to answer any allegations. the chancellor has made clear, people breaking the rules will be kicked out of the conservative party. philip will be subject to that like anybody else. if philip will be sub'ect to that like anybody else.— philip will be sub'ect to that like anybody else. if he had put a bet adainst anybody else. if he had put a bet against himself, _ anybody else. if he had put a bet against himself, you _ anybody else. if he had put a bet against himself, you still - anybody else. if he had put a bet against himself, you still think. against himself, you still think what you said on the interview on the radio it would be wrong. it what you said on the interview on the radio it would be wrong. it does sound to me. _ the radio it would be wrong. it does sound to me, if— the radio it would be wrong. it does sound to me, if somebody - the radio it would be wrong. it does sound to me, if somebody does - sound to me, if somebody does something like this, i do think there are concerns around that. labour has taken action against a candidate. too quickly in terms of finding out whether or not any rules have been broken. this finding out whether or not any rules have been broken.— have been broken. this is the kind of decisive — have been broken. this is the kind of decisive nature _ have been broken. this is the kind of decisive nature of _ have been broken. this is the kind of decisive nature of keir - have been broken. this is the kind of decisive nature of keir starmer. if somebody is under investigation during _ if somebody is under investigation during an — if somebody is under investigation during an election, also a public servant. — during an election, also a public servant, and it is possible, they should — servant, and it is possible, they should not— servant, and it is possible, they should not be representing our party particularly at this moment in time. kevin _ particularly at this moment in time. kevin said _ particularly at this moment in time. kevin said it — particularly at this moment in time. kevin said it was patently clear. one third — kevin said it was patently clear. one third of the election campaign is spent _ one third of the election campaign is spent trying to answer what on earth _ is spent trying to answer what on earth the — is spent trying to answer what on earth the prime minister was trying to do _ earth the prime minister was trying to do how— earth the prime minister was trying to do. how it takes him so long to make _ to do. how it takes him so long to make a _ to do. how it takes him so long to make a decision and how he displays weakness _ make a decision and how he displays weakness so profoundly in the middle of a general election campaign is beyond _ of a general election campaign is beyond me?— of a general election campaign is be ond me? ~ , �* ,, ., beyond me? why didn't keir starmer sus-end beyond me? why didn't keir starmer suspend angela _ beyond me? why didn't keir starmer suspend angela rayner— beyond me? why didn't keir starmer suspend angela rayner when - beyond me? why didn't keir starmer suspend angela rayner when she - beyond me? why didn't keir starmer| suspend angela rayner when she was being investigated by the police? these people demonstrably have something to answer. you these people demonstrably have something to answer.— these people demonstrably have something to answer. you said they should be suspended. _ something to answer. you said they should be suspended. presumably i should be suspended. presumably there was evidence or the police would not have investigated. it there was evidence or the police would not have investigated. it was a conservative _ would not have investigated. it was a conservative candidate _ would not have investigated. it was a conservative candidate who - would not have investigated. it was a conservative candidate who called for the second part of that investigation, as you call it. thea;r investigation, as you call it. they investigate _ investigation, as you call it. they investigate based _ investigation, as you call it. they investigate based on _ investigation, as you call it. tue: investigate based on evidence. investigation, as you call it. theyl investigate based on evidence. he could not tell me what it was he thought was worth investigating when i asked him at the time. you said you do not like the moral panic around that. is that how the labour party response looks? lots of people clearly place bets met legitimately on things like elections. th on things like elections. in isolation it would not be a problem. the problem — isolation it would not be a problem. the problem is _ isolation it would not be a problem. the problem is the _ isolation it would not be a problem. the problem is the culture - isolation it would not be a problem. the problem is the culture of- the problem is the culture of sleaze. — the problem is the culture of sleaze. the _ the problem is the culture of sleaze, the culture _ the problem is the culture of sleaze, the culture of- the problem is the culture of sleaze, the culture of not. the problem is the culture of. sleaze, the culture of not being seen _ sleaze, the culture of not being seen to — sleaze, the culture of not being seen to take _ sleaze, the culture of not being seen to take the _ sleaze, the culture of not being seen to take the job _ sleaze, the culture of not being seen to take the job very - sleaze, the culture of not being - seen to take the job very seriously. what _ seen to take the job very seriously. what is _ seen to take the job very seriously. what is unfortunate _ seen to take the job very seriously. what is unfortunate as _ seen to take the job very seriously. what is unfortunate as their- seen to take the job very seriously. what is unfortunate as their last. seen to take the job very seriously. what is unfortunate as their last 14| what is unfortunate as their last 14 years. _ what is unfortunate as their last 14 years. probably— what is unfortunate as their last 14 years, probably the _ what is unfortunate as their last 14 years, probably the last _ what is unfortunate as their last 14 years, probably the last three - what is unfortunate as their last 14| years, probably the last three years of conservatives, _ years, probably the last three years of conservatives, have _ years, probably the last three years of conservatives, have led - years, probably the last three years of conservatives, have led to - years, probably the last three years of conservatives, have led to their. of conservatives, have led to their being. _ of conservatives, have led to their being. we — of conservatives, have led to their being. we are _ of conservatives, have led to their being. we are going _ of conservatives, have led to their being, we are going to _ of conservatives, have led to their being, we are going to have - of conservatives, have led to their being, we are going to have to - of conservatives, have led to their. being, we are going to have to have a written _ being, we are going to have to have a written constitution _ being, we are going to have to have a written constitution because - being, we are going to have to have a written constitution because no i a written constitution because no one can — a written constitution because no one can be — a written constitution because no one can be seen _ a written constitution because no one can be seen to— a written constitution because no one can be seen to behave - one can be seen to behave themselves _ one can be seen to behave themselves. if— one can be seen to behave themselves. if you - one can be seen to behave themselves. if you are - one can be seen to behave themselves. if you are not| one can be seen to behave - themselves. if you are not drinking in downing — themselves. if you are not drinking in downing street _ themselves. if you are not drinking in downing street during _ themselves. if you are not drinking in downing street during covid. - themselves. if you are not drinkingl in downing street during covid. the vast in downing street during covid. vast majority of people go in downing street during covid. tip; vast majority of people go into politics for the right reasons. this is not everybody, it is a small minority. tt is not everybody, it is a small minority-— is not everybody, it is a small minori . ., ., ., minority. it is a lot of you. you cannot underestimate - minority. it is a lot of you. you cannot underestimate how - minority. it is a lot of you. you - cannot underestimate how damaging partygate _ cannot underestimate how damaging partygate was — cannot underestimate how damaging partygate was not— cannot underestimate how damaging partygate was. not just _ cannot underestimate how damaging partygate was. not just for _ cannot underestimate how damaging partygate was. not just for the - partygate was. not just for the conservatives _ partygate was. not just for the conservatives but _ partygate was. not just for the conservatives but the - partygate was. not just for the - conservatives but the government and politics _ conservatives but the government and politics at _ conservatives but the government and politics at large — conservatives but the government and politics at large. you _ conservatives but the government and politics at large. you timed _ conservatives but the government and politics at large. you timed that - politics at large. you timed that with the — politics at large. you timed that with the number— politics at large. you timed that with the number of— politics at large. you timed that with the number of sexual - politics at large. you timed that - with the number of sexual harassment allegations _ with the number of sexual harassment allegations and — with the number of sexual harassment allegations and the _ with the number of sexual harassment allegations and the gambling - allegations and the gambling scandal _ allegations and the gambling scandal i_ allegations and the gambling scandal. i can— allegations and the gambling scandal. i can go— allegations and the gambling scandal. i can go on- allegations and the gambling scandal. i can go on and - allegations and the gambling scandal. i can go on and on. i allegations and the gamblingl scandal. i can go on and on. at allegations and the gambling scandal. i can go on and on. a small number of — scandal. i can go on and on. a small number of people. _ scandal. i can go on and on. a small number of people. politics - scandal. i can go on and on. a small number of people. politics has - scandal. i can go on and on. a small number of people. politics has its i number of people. politics has its faults. the vast majority people go into politics for the right reasons and do a good job. if we make out every politician is self—serving, it is completely wrong. every politician is self-serving, it is completely wrong.— every politician is self-serving, it is completely wrong. there were also im aortant. is completely wrong. there were also important- the _ is completely wrong. there were also important. the ministerial— is completely wrong. there were also important. the ministerial code - is completely wrong. there were also important. the ministerial code is - is completely wrong. there were also important. the ministerial code is a i important. the ministerial code is a good _ important. the ministerial code is a good code — important. the ministerial code is a good code. the prime minister didn't put any— good code. the prime minister didn't put any sanctions on their rattle for it _ put any sanctions on their rattle for it. when you have the home secretary— for it. when you have the home secretary of the day breaking the ministerial code with no sanctions whatsoever, not even a public reprimand but that is when the rules that exist _ reprimand but that is when the rules that exist get swept aside and things— that exist get swept aside and things crashed to the floor? this is of the _ things crashed to the floor? this is of the challenges we have. let�*s of the challenges we have. let's talk about _ of the challenges we have. let's talk about the _ of the challenges we have. let's talk about the french _ of the challenges we have. let�*s talk about the french elections in the final minutes of the programme. president macron of france astounded the country by calling a snap election in reaction to his defeat about the european parliament. the first round is on sunday, the second on july the 7th. let's first round is on sunday, the second onjuly the 7th. let's join safely. everyone talked about it being a gamble. is it paying off? hot everyone talked about it being a gamble. is it paying off?- everyone talked about it being a gamble. is it paying off? not if you look at the — gamble. is it paying off? not if you look at the polls _ gamble. is it paying off? not if you look at the polls at _ gamble. is it paying off? not if you look at the polls at the _ gamble. is it paying off? not if you look at the polls at the moment. i look at the polls at the moment. macron's party is in bed. it has not changed during this campaign. —— is in third. it looks extremely bad for emmanuel macron at this point. it is a two round election and it is important to bear that in mind. you can have tactical arrangements between candidates after the first round whereby one or other standard and to keep the far right out. some of his outgoing deputy are probably going to lose their seats in the first round and a lot of others will be under pressure to stand down in orderfor be under pressure to stand down in order for those be under pressure to stand down in orderfor those tactical arrangements to be made after voting next week. the arrangements to be made after voting next week. ,., , arrangements to be made after voting next week. , ., next week. the polls are pointing for a very poor — next week. the polls are pointing for a very poor performance - next week. the polls are pointing for a very poor performance by i for a very poor performance by macron's party in a very strong performance, perhaps even an outright majority for marine le pen's party, the national rally. here are the main candidates to be prime minister?— prime minister? marine le pen's ya , prime minister? marine le pen's -a , a prime minister? marine le pen's party, a 28-year-old, _ prime minister? marine le pen's party, a 28-year-old, who - prime minister? marine le pen's party, a 28-year-old, who has. prime minister? marine le pen's i party, a 28-year-old, who has been party, a 28—year—old, who has been holding the presidency of the party for the last couple of years. he is a protege of hers. he worked his way up a protege of hers. he worked his way up through politics. he has never held a job outside politics. he dropped out of university to be a local councillor. he is her candidate, absolutely. the centrist candidate, absolutely. the centrist candidate, the outgoing prime minister is still serving. he is also young, 35 years old. he is a mini me of macron, a young, parisien type of moderate. then on the right... surrey, on the left, this left—wing alliance, an extraordinary collection of parties, the french equivalent of the communist left, the more blairite left, they cannot agree on a candidate. they have been putting in different candidates for the party in the debates we have been having. we had one on tuesday and another this evening. idrofhat been having. we had one on tuesday and another this evening.— and another this evening. what with the implications _ and another this evening. what with the implications be _ and another this evening. what with the implications be of— and another this evening. what with the implications be of a _ and another this evening. what with the implications be of a new - the implications be of a new government in france for the uk, given the ongoing debate over channel crossings and the fact there will be a review of the trade and cooperation agreement between the uk and the eu in a year's time? the main change _ and the eu in a year's time? the main change will _ and the eu in a year's time? tte: main change will be and the eu in a year's time? tt2 main change will be if there is a far right, hard right government. there is very little mention of theirs, you should know that. makes no mention of the uk at all. one can safely say the far—right party will do everything it can to make sure it stops migrants coming into france and gets rid of migrants as soon as they get here. i would imagine that would be extremely complicated for the british cabinet because they will not want camps on the northern french coast and they will not want to make that any easier for the uk. as for negotiations, the party of marine le pen is a eurosceptic party that doesn't quite use that term any more. it would also be a really difficult partner, i think for the uk in any form of negotiations at eu level, even though they are supposed to take place at brussels. the french count for a lot in that. there will be a complicated and relationship between a far right prime minister. it would be difficult for the uk.- difficult for the uk. does it matter, difficult for the uk. does it matter. the _ difficult for the uk. does it matter, the outcome - difficult for the uk. does it matter, the outcome of. difficult for the uk. does it i matter, the outcome of these elections? t matter, the outcome of these elections?— matter, the outcome of these elections? ithink it does. it is not 'ust elections? ithink it does. it is not just france _ elections? ithink it does. it is not just france it _ elections? ithink it does. it is not just france it is _ elections? ithink it does. it is notjust france it is happening elections? i think it does. it is. notjust france it is happening in. it is notjust france it is happening in. it is right— notjust france it is happening in. it is right across europe. people are concerned about the same thing from a _ are concerned about the same thing from a migration. it is so important to deal— from a migration. it is so important to deal with — from a migration. it is so important to deal with migration. that is why our election — to deal with migration. that is why our election is so critical. i believe _ our election is so critical. i believe we will and i believe labour will make _ believe we will and i believe labour will make things a lot worse. does it matter? — will make things a lot worse. does it matter? it does. we should recognise _ it matter? it does. we should recognise what is happening in france — recognise what is happening in france and make sure we do not end ”p france and make sure we do not end up in— france and make sure we do not end up ihthe_ france and make sure we do not end up in the same situation here. how much does — up in the same situation here. how much does it _ up in the same situation here. how much does it matter? _ up in the same situation here. how much does it matter? every - up in the same situation here. howl much does it matter? every election matters. much does it matter? every election matters- the — much does it matter? every election matters. the french _ much does it matter? every election matters. the french election - much does it matter? every election matters. the french election will. matters. the french election will matter. they are our biggest trading partner in terms of tackling big security issues, a very big partner. if there is a labour government that we will respect the views of the french people and their choice of government and find ways to work and cooperate. the same is true for other global partners. our interests are paramount here. tackling global issues, we know china is competition for the way we conduct ourselves as a group of nations. we need to find ways to strengthen these relationships with national security and trade and cultural links as well, not letting them fracture. horde well, not letting them fracture. how im aortant well, not letting them fracture. how important you _ well, not letting them fracture. how important you at _ well, not letting them fracture. how important you at elections france? critical. the actions of nato as well _ critical. the actions of nato as well. , , .., , critical. the actions of nato as well. , , . ., , , critical. the actions of nato as well. , , , , ., well. hugely because these are the fault lines reform are exploiting. that is all we have — lines reform are exploiting. that is all we have time _ lines reform are exploiting. that is all we have time for. _ lines reform are exploiting. that is all we have time for. i _ lines reform are exploiting. that is all we have time for. i will - lines reform are exploiting. that is all we have time for. i will be - lines reform are exploiting. that is all we have time for. i will be back| all we have time for. i will be back with more today at one. party leaders make their last efforts to win votes as the final week of the general election campaign begins. we'll assess the claims and promises made during the final head—to—head debate between rishi sunak and sir keir starmer also on the programme: what do we want? pay restoration. junior doctors in england strike for the eleventh time in their long—running pay dispute, with concerns the warm weather could increase nhs pressures during the walkout. are you telling the truth, gareth jenkins? a former fujitsu software engineer tells the post office inquiry he came under pressure to say the horizon it system was perfect. private parking firms agree a new code of conduct after criticism of their practices. and festivalgoers prepare for the heat — and the music — at glastonbury. and coming up on bbc news. england's preparations for their last—16 match with slovakia at the euros are under way as the knockout stages approach. good afternoon and welcome to the bbc news at one. there is just a week to go before the general election and all political parties are hitting the campaign trail in a final push to win over voters. rishi sunak is visiting a factory in derbyshire. sir keir starmer is on the labour battle bus in the north west of england and the west midlands. last night, they clashed on issues including tax,

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