Transcripts For BBCNEWS BBC 20240702

in whatever capacity to stand for her seat, surrounded by many of her supporters. she has been seen by many as a trailblazer, the first black female mp. we are joined by our political correspondent. this news has dominated the headlines in many ways over recent days but it is now confirmed diane abbott is free to go forward as a labour candidate. sir keir starmer in the last few minutes saying in his view diane abbott is free to go forward as a labour candidate, he says the final decision will be made by the nec which he sets on. the labour leader clearly expressing his view. he has a majority on that committee, that diane abbott should be free to stand as a labour candidate if she wants to. we have not heard from diane abbott yet although she spoke at that rally saying she wanted to carry on as a labour mp. i think we can expect that to be the case. a row which has dominated headlines for days. we heard from keir starmer earlier today where he said, he stuck to his line no decision had been taken, and it was a matter for that committee. a few hours later he has decided to say his view is diane abbott is free to go forward as a labour candidate, that news breaking in the last few minutes. senior labour sources confirming diane abbott will be the candidate and the nec will not block her. she had had a lot of support in her own seat, but also angela rayner, the deputy leader, voicing her support. the deputy leader, voicing her su ort. �* . the deputy leader, voicing her su--ort. �* ., the deputy leader, voicing her su--ort. �* . support. angela rayner saying esterda support. angela rayner saying yesterday in — support. angela rayner saying yesterday in her _ support. angela rayner saying yesterday in her view - support. angela rayner saying yesterday in her view there - support. angela rayner saying | yesterday in her view there was support. angela rayner saying - yesterday in her view there was no reason diane abbott could not stand as a labour candidate. interestingly, this morning, sir keir starmer, that was put to him director —— directly but he did not take an opportunity to say that this morning, but he has said so if you hours later. there has been a desire within labour to move on from this debate, this row. there has been growing discontent from some on the left of the party notjust growing discontent from some on the left of the party not just at this situation with diane abbott but what they perceive as a cull of left—wing candidates. there is a wider discontent among people on the left of the party about their treatment and diane abbott was the figurehead. that trailblazing mp, the first black female mp, and mp for decades. we saw a number of figures praising her record. her political allies, and those not from the same wing of the labour party, praising her record, her long—standing career. remembering the abuse she suffered over that time. the breaking news that sir keir starmer saying in his view diane abbott is free now to go forward and stand as a labour mp. the first black woman to be elected to parliament, a former close ally ofjeremy corbyn. angela rayner came out yesterday, does that look as though that was top of the labour party preparing the ground? otherwise it will be —— it would be ill disciplined. do we know whether that was to a degree planned ahead of today's announcement? we do not know whether it was planned. this morning, keir starmer had an opportunity to agree with angela rayner, his deputy, about those comments come in her view there was no reason diane abbott could not stand. he had that opportunity. it seems more likely since those comments, he was in the west of scotland this morning announcing labour's policy on great british energy. he had an opportunity to agree this morning but chose not to, he stuck to his formula no decision had yet been taken. if you hours later coming out to say in his view diane abbott is now free to stand as a labour mp. it seems like there has been a debate on going at the top of the labour party as to what they should do. we had from one labour minister this morning in many ways preparing the ground for another outcome saying labour wants to look to the future. that diane abbott had been a trailblazer in the past. not making a decision or giving his view. interesting that shift in language throughout their day culminating in this news that sir keir starmer is a saying in his view diane abbott is free to stand as a labour candidate. this is a story that has dominated labour events, making policy announcements, dominating the election campaign in the last few days. keir starmer obviously keen to put an end to that, giving his view that diane abbott is free to stand. he does it say the final decision will be made by the nec. but the nec will be made by the nec. but the nec will not block that. diane abbott we can expect will stand as a labour mp in the general election. the conservatives had criticised sir keir starmer saying he couldn't make a decision about diane abbott, then how could he deal with vladimir putin, a line we saw various ministers coming outwith. does it signal the leadership team around keir starmer still have something to learn about handling potentially difficult decisions? there will be questions political opponents will ask the labour leadership about why if sir keir starmer had this view he was not able to say that yesterday or even this morning. political opponents may well ask those questions. there was a gradual realisation at every event and every policy announcement that they made, media interviews, we heard this morning and this afternoon, any time a labour politician was asked about it over the next few days, the nec meeting wasn't happening until tuesday. there was a realisation perhaps unless they wanted to carry on being asked about it until tuesday, the labour leader needed to make clear his view before then otherwise this row was going to roll on for the next few days. keir starmer trying to bring that debate to an end giving his view. diane abbott is someone who has been known to the public for many years. she appeared on the bbc as a political guest. more importantly she was seen as an iconic figure given her status as the first black labour female mp. given her status as the first black labourfemale mp. she given her status as the first black labour female mp. she was given her status as the first black labourfemale mp. she was in given her status as the first black labour female mp. she was in the headlines relatively recently because the police investigated a top tory donor about comments he had made about diane abbott. it is known she has suffered a lot of racial abuse throughout her career. that is right, that is undisputed whether you are a political opponent or ally. across the political spectrum, undisputed she has faced a lot of abuse, the first black female mp, and many party figures have been at describing her as a trailblazer, praising her record. as you say, an acknowledgement of all she has done. there was an acknowledgement even fallon recently she has been critical of the labour leadership, posting on social media on sir keir starmer�*s agenda and approach. not an uncomplicated decision. she has not been afraid even recently to express her opposition, her concern at keir starmer. remember a close ally ofjeremy corbyn and one other key messages we have heard from labour in this campaign is keir starmer arguing labour has changed from that era whenjeremy corbyn was running the labour party. there was some debate i think by their diane abbott, perhaps because of her close alliance but also remember the reason why she was suspended was because of that letter she wrote to a newspaper a year ago where she said jewish people and travellers do not experience the same level of racism that black people face, comments which she quickly apologised for but had the whip removed. the whip was restored this week. and now i suppose this debate culminating in keir starmer saying he thinks she is now free to stand as a labour mp. the labour leader trying to draw a line under this and avoid further headlines for the next few days. we will bring you a clip of keir starmer at tpm where he has said diane abbott is free to go forward as a labour candidate. that is it from me. first, let us get the weather. hello there. we are moving into a spell of much—needed drier weather. some sunshine around into the weekend. and high pressure is getting a bit closer to our shores settling things down. butjust around the edges of the high we have had a stronger northerly wind affecting some eastern parts of england. that has brought with it a lot of cloud, even a bit of rain as well. and pegged back the temperatures especially lincolnshire, east anglia and the south east of england. but further west and north where we are seeing some sunshine and cloud, temperatures are higher at 19 or 20 degrees. there is some more cloud coming into northern scotland which still could produce one or two spots of rain. the rain in the south east and east anglia it will move away quickly this evening. we will still keep some cloud for eastern areas. with clearer skies out towards the west. things will be a little chilly where we have the clearer skies, down to six or seven degrees first thing in the morning. heading into the weekend, a lot of dry weather around on saturday. there is more cloud coming into north east england which will push down into the midlands. it could just give one or two light showers. otherwise more sunshine, and a drier, warmer day in the south east and east anglia and lincolnshire. and more sunshine to come to scotland and northern ireland. temperatures reaching 20 degrees in the central belt of scotland. and a warmer 19 degrees in london and the south east of england. the area of high pressure is centred more towards the atlantic and that is allowing around the top of it more cloud to come in and a change of fortunes perhaps for sunday. we are seeing cloudier skies in northern ireland and scotland, maybe a little rain in the north west, that cloud comes into the far north of england. sunny spells in the south. with lighter winds in the south east, here it is going to be warmest of all, temperatures reaching a very pleasant 22 or 23 degrees. still quite warm for north east england and eastern scotland. in the north west where we have more cloud, temperatures are going to be a little bit lower. that cloud will push its way southwards overnight into monday. together with the front which is very weak. so again, little or no rain on it but we are seeing more cloud pushing southwards. sunnier skies following towards the north where temperatures will reach 17 or 18 degrees. even with more cloud in southern areas, temperatures could reach 20 degrees. the area of high pressure, though, that is getting squeezed away out into the atlantic, which is allowing north—westerly winds. stronger winds on tuesday. polar maritime air. even a touch of wintriness over the scottish mountains. whereas it is still 21 degrees in southern england. live from london, this is bbc news. in the last few minutes, the labour leader keir starmer has said diane abbott is free to go forward as the labour candidate in the general election. and donald trump is convicted of falsifying business records in a historic trial that he and his legal team say he will appeal and we will be live for you there in new york. bowel cancer patients will still have access to a bespoke vaccine as part of a trial. —— soon have. two huge stories will bejuggling over the next few —— soon have. two huge stories will be juggling over the next few hours, will be live in new york where we are expecting to hear from donald trump but first let us turn to that breaking news in the election campaign because in the last beat minutes, the labour leader, sir keir starmer has said diane abbott is free to go forward as his party's candidate as the mp for hackney north and stoke newington and he had previously said it was up to the executive committee of the party to decide whether she could run and the timeline for that was set to be tuesday but we have seen days of pressure on the labour party and the leader about the future of diane abbott, because of course the party whip was restored to her bed then of course all those leaks and a really confusing situation with diane abbott coming out herself and seeing she had been told she was barred from standing and then again and again, every reporter that are spoken to senior members of the labour party has been asking the question, is labour barring diane abbott? who has of course been an mp for 37 years, a trailblazer as all those mps acknowledge and then of course accusations that not only was she being blocked but she made the point that the left of the party in her view was being blocked from the party. let's go straight to westminster where harry farley is across this story and it is breaking and has happened in the last few minutes. tell us more. fascinating development. _ minutes. tell us more. fascinating development, matthew, _ minutes. tell us more. fascinating development, matthew, keir- minutes. tell us more. fascinating i development, matthew, keir starmer in the last few minutes making clear his view at the diane abbott is clear to stand as a labour mp and he did say the final decision was up to labour's national executive committee but we should be clear that keir starmer has a majority on that keir starmer has a majority on that committee and a labour source making clear that the nec will not lock that so we should expect diane abbott to stand in this election in hackney and she said earlier this week in that rally we saw on the screen is there that she wants to stand as a candidate in the election and it was interesting because we heard from labour's deputy, angela rayner, saying that in her view, there was no reason she could see for diane abbott is not to be able to stand and sir keir starmer this morning asked whether he agreed with this deputy that he saw no reason why she couldn't stand and interesting lives this morning he didn't take the opportunity to say that and he maintained his line that no decision had been made and it was up no decision had been made and it was up to the committee but in the last few minutes he has come in front of the tv cameras again to say that in his view, he thinks diane abbott is clear to stand and i think there was an acknowledgement and realisation in labour that that meeting of that committee, the nec, would not happen until tuesday and at every policy announcement and any time a labour minister or spokesperson spoke to you or any of the other shows across the bbc and the rest of the media, they would be asked about diane abbott and this story would roll on until there was a clear decision and view. �* ., ., ., , view. and we got that in the last few minutes- — view. and we got that in the last few minutes. let's _ view. and we got that in the last few minutes. let's hear- view. and we got that in the last few minutes. let's hear from - view. and we got that in the last few minutes. let's hear from sir| few minutes. let's hearfrom sir keir starmer. few minutes. let's hear from sir keir starmer.— keir starmer. diane abbott was elected in 1987, _ keir starmer. diane abbott was elected in 1987, the _ keir starmer. diane abbott was elected in 1987, the first - keir starmer. diane abbott was elected in 1987, the first blackl elected in 1987, the first black woman— elected in 1987, the first black woman mp and she has been a trailblazer and she has carved a path _ trailblazer and she has carved a path for— trailblazer and she has carved a path for other people to come into politics— path for other people to come into politics and public life and the web has obviously been restored to her now and _ has obviously been restored to her now and she is free to go forward as a labour_ now and she is free to go forward as a labour candidate.— now and she is free to go forward as a labour candidate. have you spoken to diane and — a labour candidate. have you spoken to diane and do _ a labour candidate. have you spoken to diane and do you _ a labour candidate. have you spoken to diane and do you understand - a labour candidate. have you spoken to diane and do you understand that| to diane and do you understand that she wants to put herself forward to stand? ,, , ., ., ., ., stand? she is free to go forward as a labour candidate _ stand? she is free to go forward as a labour candidate and _ stand? she is free to go forward as a labour candidate and the - stand? she is free to go forward as a labour candidate and the web - stand? she is free to go forward as a labour candidate and the web is l a labour candidate and the web is back with — a labour candidate and the web is back with her and has been restored and of— back with her and has been restored and of course she was a trailblazer for many— and of course she was a trailblazer for many years and has cleared the path for— for many years and has cleared the path for others to come into politics _ path for others to come into politics -- _ path for others to come into politics. —— the whip is back. formerly— politics. —— the whip is back. formerly a _ politics. —— the whip is back. formerly a matter for the nec but i have not_ formerly a matter for the nec but i have not expressed a view up until now, _ have not expressed a view up until now. she — have not expressed a view up until now. she is — have not expressed a view up until now, she is clear to go forward as a labour_ now, she is clear to go forward as a labour candidate.— labour candidate. after days of this, labour candidate. after days of this. harry. _ labour candidate. after days of this, harry, there _ labour candidate. after days of this, harry, there it _ labour candidate. after days of this, harry, there it is, - labour candidate. after days of this, harry, there it is, a - labour candidate. after days of this, harry, there it is, a clearl this, harry, there it is, a clear decision and we are waiting for a response from diane abbott butjust your assessment of the damage this has perhaps done over the last few days. it has perhaps done over the last few da s. . . has perhaps done over the last few da s. , , ., ,., has perhaps done over the last few das. , , ., ._ days. it is interesting from so many levels, matthew, _ days. it is interesting from so many levels, matthew, obviously - days. it is interesting from so many levels, matthew, obviously diane . levels, matthew, obviously diane abbott a close ally of the former leader of the labour party, jeremy corbyn, and at the last general election she was running to be the home secretary, and much of what we have heard from sir keir starmer and the labour party throughout this campaign so far is their argument that labour has changed, they have changed the labour party, and there seems to be a direction of travel almost and you could see a narrative developing that that is why they didn't want diane abbott to stand because they have moved on and are looking to the future and the labour party has changed but so interesting that diane abbott came out in front of that rally we heard from in hackney saying she wanted to stand, she wanted to run as a labour candidate in stoke newington in east london and she felt she was being blocked from doing so and so keir starmer denied that and said no decision had been made but as i was saying, i think there was a realisation in the labour party that the campaign was being overtaken by questions around diane abbott, as you say, many party figures, political allies and opponents, hailing her as a trailblazer, obviously the first black woman to be an mp in parliament, has been an mp for decades, and recognised for her record across the political divide, for that reason, i think there was a realisation from labour that actually their campaign and any policy announcements they wanted to make was being overtaken by questions around whether sir keir starmer and the labour party would allow diane abbott to stand, and as you say, i think a desire from the labour leadership to put an end to that and so keir starmer choosing to come out in front of the cameras in the last few minutes to give his view that diane abbott is free to run as a labour candidate and we have heard from labour sources adding that the executive committee will not block that so we can expect diane abbott to be the labour candidate in stoke newington. thank ou for candidate in stoke newington. thank you for giving — candidate in stoke newington. thank you for giving us _ candidate in stoke newington. thank you for giving us that _ candidate in stoke newington. thank you for giving us that snapshot reaction to that breaking news and we will have more reaction on that particular aspect of that breaking news story on the programme later but we will turn to that huge, unprecedented news that out of york overnight, donald trump becoming the first ever serving or former us president to be convicted of a crime and this is the scene outside trump tower in new york where we are expecting to hear from the former president at a run for pm this afternoon and he was found guilty of all of the 1111 afternoon and he was found guilty of all of the 114 charges of falsifying business records and attempting to influence an election last night and he is still able to run even with a criminal conviction and he is expected to be sentenced injuly and he is saying that he will be appealing that decision. here's our north america correspondent, john sudworth. in a nearby park, his opponents celebrated. trump is guilty! while inside the court, the former president was walking into history... ..as the first ever to be convicted of a crime. this was a disgrace, this was a rigged trial by a conflicted judge who is corrupt. it's a rigged trial, a disgrace. but it was a jury who convicted him on the evidence. 311 counts of falsifying business records to disguise hush money payments to the porn star stormy daniels. for the purpose, prosecutors said, of keeping her claim that they had had sex from the american public, just ahead of the 2016 election. the verdict brought only gloom to mr trump's supporters who were left repeating those claims of political persecution. and they are afraid of a much more popular opponent, which they know will defeat them. but this was a decision made by 12 ordinary new yorkers, your fellow citizens. there is nothing political about that, is there? i'm not going to say that thejury was tainted, but who knows. who knows? so despite the sense of despondency among the trump supporters, it is all pretty good—natured here, although as you can see there is a pretty large police presence just in case. the bigger question though is what the reaction will be longer term with america now in uncharted territory. you can't even see the back! there's so many people here. what effect will it have on his election chances? will it put those crucial undecided voters off or draw others to him? and what about the impact of his attacks on america's institutions? already intensifying in the wake of the verdict. the man who brought the case insisted the result was a sign the justice system is working. while this defendant may be unlike any other in american history, we arrived at this trial and ultimately today at this verdict in the same manner as every other case that comes through the court room doors. by following the facts and the law and doing so without fear or favour. millions will agree with him, and millions were linked. and millions won't. sentencing will be in earlyjuly. mr trump is unlikely, legal experts say, to go to jail. but either way, one half of a divided country now has a convicted criminal as its candidate. john sudworth, bbc news, new york. i will talk to john i will talk tojohn in a moment live to new york but first let's speak to bryant's delta in new york. welcome to the programme. you were watching last night, what did you think as you saw those counts come in and guilty verdicts on all of them? irate guilty verdicts on all of them? we knew this guilty verdicts on all of them? 7 knew this was in the works for a year and these charges date back over a decade and yet this was still a monumental surprise to so many americans and i think that is why we should ignore anyone who confidently tells you they know what the results will be and those who say it will help trump when the election and also ignore the democrats who are dancing on truck mac's grave already and saying it will end him although there are lots more of those confident democrats then there are confidence republicans but the impact of this is unknowable and for the first time in this election, we are in an uncertain period and this was a pretty boring rematch of the 2020 election, but i don't think this conviction was baked into the polls and the boaters' mines and i think too many americans were baked out of this, so the idea of this guilty verdict and this conviction creates this massive unknowable factor for the election. —— voters' minds. factor for the election. -- voters' minds. ., ,., factor for the election. -- voters' minds. ., ., , . , factor for the election. -- voters' minds. ., ., . minds. there are so many aspects of the election — minds. there are so many aspects of the election to _ minds. there are so many aspects of the election to talk _ minds. there are so many aspects of the election to talk about _ minds. there are so many aspects of the election to talk about in - minds. there are so many aspects of the election to talk about in that - the election to talk about in that answer so let's touch on some of what you have talked about, because we have seen trump bend the norms and make its own rules so was yesterday just the judicial system underlining that nobody is above the law? . . underlining that nobody is above the law? ., , ., ., , ., law? that is what the constitution sa s, law? that is what the constitution says. liberty _ law? that is what the constitution says. liberty and _ law? that is what the constitution says, liberty and justice _ law? that is what the constitution says, liberty and justice for - law? that is what the constitution says, liberty and justice for all, i says, liberty and justice for all, yet trump has been able to escape this kind of criminal moment and his companies have often been accused of improper behaviour but have never been held accountable to the degree that trump was held accountable so in a way this was a moment that was decades in the making for donald trump and that was in a way part of his political brand that he was never able to be stopped and a big part of why he won in 2016 but ever since then he has been losing and in 2020, the people he endorsed in 2022 didn't win and he has either a string of losses and in some ways this is the ultimate loss for him because it is so personal and could impact him in many ways depending on the sentencing. you impact him in many ways depending on the sentencing-— the sentencing. you look at the variety of _ the sentencing. you look at the variety of legal _ the sentencing. you look at the variety of legaljeopardy - the sentencing. you look at the variety of legaljeopardy he - the sentencing. you look at the l variety of legaljeopardy he faces and each time he has entered court he has effectively lost but what you think will happen now when it comes to sentencing and the options there? roll into that the impeachment and the disgrace of january six, it is roll into that the impeachment and the disgrace ofjanuary six, it is a losing streak but in a way it is a losing streak but in a way it is a losing streak but in a way it is a losing streak that makes his cult following old him closer and i think when it comes to sentencing, the big question is will trump encourage his fans to swarm the courthouse and have a repeat of january the 6th when he encourages fans to swamp the capital and my instincts tell me he is smarter than that but i think there is a real question mark mac. but i think many are worried about the prospect of political violence. some polling has been done in recent months across the board in america but specifically with trump boaters and we saw that with nikki haley, there was a section of people who voted for her in the primaries, who were quite clear that if he was convicted they would not vote for him. and that audience will now be key for president biden, can he reach out and appeal to them directly? this is a reach out and appeal to them directly? this is _ reach out and appeal to them directly? this is a confusing story because there _ directly? this is a confusing story because there is _ directly? this is a confusing story because there is a _ directly? this is a confusing story because there is a brand - directly? this is a confusing story because there is a brand of- directly? this is a confusing story l because there is a brand of outlaws and some people want to be with the outlaw but there is also a sense of embarrassment on the global stage for the us as a result of this verdict and it is ultimately an emotional decision voters are making and some drink you hold trump tighter than ever and some ultimately letting him go. just a da fora ultimately letting him go. just a day for a moment _ ultimately letting him go. just a day for a moment or _ ultimately letting him go. just a day for a moment or two - ultimately letting him go. just a. day for a moment or two because ultimately letting him go. just a i day for a moment or two because i want to go inside trump tower to speak tojohn southworth who is up there with the cameras that are already set out because we are waiting to hear in a while from the man himself but certainly those were extraordinary scenes inside of the court as each of those guilty verdicts came, he was static, no flinching. —— sudworth. at a real impact as he watched each of those jurors make those calls.— jurors make those calls. that's riaht, jurors make those calls. that's right, matthew, _ jurors make those calls. that's right, matthew, and _ jurors make those calls. that's right, matthew, and since i jurors make those calls. that's right, matthew, and since thatj right, matthew, and since that verdict, of course we've had some indications of the way trump is going to respond, those social media posts, many allies more than hinting that they are going to double down on this narrative of grievance, this idea that this was a trial orchestrated by the white house, a claim they have made repeatedly... apologies, we have clearly lost the line to john apologies, we have clearly lost the line tojohn there. we will come back tojohn when it is a bit more stabilised. sorry to cut you off, john. brian, just tell me more in terms of the human eye was just touching on there, because so much of trump's image of ego, and this cuts to the very core of that, doesn't it?— cuts to the very core of that, doesn't it? , ., ., doesn't it? yes, another winner, someone — doesn't it? yes, another winner, someone who — doesn't it? yes, another winner, someone who is _ doesn't it? yes, another winner, someone who is always - doesn't it? yes, another winner, someone who is always winning l doesn't it? yes, another winner, i someone who is always winning and i think whatjohn was saying there about the reactions of the trump baseis about the reactions of the trump base is very critical and this is more than maybe some folks want to admit, this idea that thejustice system has been weaponised and that prosecutors are attacking republicans on although i don't think that is factually based at all, it is the pretext and predicates for republican lawmakers and republican district tenants in red states to go after democrats and thatis red states to go after democrats and that is why we are in uncharted territories here and will we see this kind of warfare going back and forth? —— district attorneys. the facts don't back that up put the emotions do and that is mostly what we will hear a trump's press conference, his feelings of grievance and persecution, and as much as that is repulsive to put democrats it is really appealing to republicans in the us and going back to nikki haley boaters, maybe some of them don't want to believe it, but some republicans going back to their corners on election day. late their corners on election day. we know that _ their corners on election day. we know that he is able to stand and be the next president even as a convicted felon but it is interesting because in the many things that are being weighed up, the timing on this comes very close to when he is formally adopted as the candidate and one assumes that still goes ahead, but as it stands, because he is registered in florida, he won't be able to vote, will he, himself, unless he changes residency to new york state? himself, unless he changes residency to new york state ?_ to new york state? these laws about half convicted — to new york state? these laws about half convicted felons _ to new york state? these laws about half convicted felons are _ to new york state? these laws about half convicted felons are treated i to new york state? these laws about half convicted felons are treated by l half convicted felons are treated by the electoral process and system are complicated and if he is sentenced but has not completed his sentence, he would not be able to vote in florida but it is somehow able to complete his sentence he would be able to vote and it is a complicated system which depends on each state but as you say, he has voted in florida in the past and i think this is one of these x factors which i don't think many americans are appreciating or paying attention to until the verdict actually came and we were covering this and journalists were following every detail of the trial and i was on a plane when this project came down yesterday and i think most people didn't actually care but as it sinks in and the coming weeks i think it will have more of an impact and i think the presidential debate will also have an impact, and sentencing is only six weeks away and the gop convention is only a few days after sentencing so there are so many unknown variables between now and then. i unknown variables between now and then. ., ., , , , then. i have to stop there because we have a — then. i have to stop there because we have a general— then. i have to stop there because we have a general election - then. i have to stop there because i we have a general election campaign here which i will have to turn to but thank you for being on the programme. that is brian stelter, journalist and correspondent for vanity fair talking to me live from new york. we will be back to new york a little while later as we are expecting to hear from york a little while later as we are expecting to hearfrom donald york a little while later as we are expecting to hear from donald trump at the trump tower later in the afternoon but let's turn to the general election and all the party leaders out and aboutjust a week into this campaign forjuly�*s vote and so keir starmer has taken the election campaign to scotland and has been speaking alongside anat sarwar and he told them that scotland has been waiting too long for a general election and repeated his call to voters to help stop the chaos in westminster and scotland and when asked about diane abbott, repeated no decision to block her from standing for labour has been taken. —— anas sarwar. in the last half an hour, that changed with so keir starmer making that clear statement. keir starmer making that clear statement-— keir starmer making that clear statement. , ., . ., ., statement. plenty of clear water between labour _ statement. plenty of clear water between labour and _ statement. plenty of clear water between labour and the - statement. plenty of clear water i between labour and the conservatives when it comes to the issue of energy and this will already be where the policy differences come to light and labour are keen to make this a central plank of their election campaign and they are pledging to make a publicly owned energy company, headquartered in scotland, great british energy and they say thatis great british energy and they say that is something they will get going with it immediately because they say they need to reduce britain's alliance on oil and gas imports —— reliance on. to get ahead of the transition away from fossil fuels and that is what keir starmer wanted to talk about today here in scotland where a key battleground for the labour party to but some critics including the green party think that labour is not going far enough what becomes to its environmental credentials and remember that decision to invest £28 billion a year and environmental policies which has been scaled back but they are accusing them of putting thousands ofjobs at risk in the oil and gas sectors and have a listen to what keir starmer said today when he was challenged on that point. the today when he was challenged on that oint. ., , . ., today when he was challenged on that oint. ., , .. ., ., point. the worst thing we can do now is knew what — point. the worst thing we can do now is knew what rishi _ point. the worst thing we can do now is knew what rishi sunak _ point. the worst thing we can do now is knew what rishi sunak is _ point. the worst thing we can do now is knew what rishi sunak is doing i is knew what rishi sunak is doing and put _ is knew what rishi sunak is doing and put our— is knew what rishi sunak is doing and put our head in the sand and pretend — and put our head in the sand and pretend it — and put our head in the sand and pretend it is not happening, and i will tell— pretend it is not happening, and i will tell you why, that is what happened when cole was coming to an end and _ happened when cole was coming to an end and we _ happened when cole was coming to an end and we are still paying the price _ end and we are still paying the price in— end and we are still paying the price in communities across the whole _ price in communities across the whole of— price in communities across the whole of scotland and the whole of united _ whole of scotland and the whole of united kingdom and we are not prepared — united kingdom and we are not prepared to let that happen again. john swinney, the leader of the snp, has been campaigning and spoke to the party faithful and called on the next government in westminster to commit to an early budget immediately following the election and listed what you said are labour's economic similarities to the tories. our scotland correspondent has the latest from glasgow. correspondent has the latest from glasuow. ,, ., ., , , glasgow. the snp leader has been campaigning _ glasgow. the snp leader has been campaigning and — glasgow. the snp leader has been campaigning and came _ glasgow. the snp leader has been campaigning and came to - glasgow. the snp leader has been campaigning and came to the i glasgow. the snp leader has been campaigning and came to the east| glasgow. the snp leader has been i campaigning and came to the east end of glasgow— campaigning and came to the east end of glasgow to set out his economic argumehts— of glasgow to set out his economic arguments and said he could to do business _ arguments and said he could to do business with whoever ends up becoming the uk's prime minister and said that _ becoming the uk's prime minister and said that would mean ending public spending _ said that would mean ending public spending cuts which he said had been inflicted _ spending cuts which he said had been inflicted lry— spending cuts which he said had been inflicted by the conservatives and he said _ inflicted by the conservatives and he said he — inflicted by the conservatives and he said he believed would continue if labour— he said he believed would continue if labour got into downing street. | if labour got into downing street. i am if labour got into downing street. am really, if labour got into downing street. i am really, really worried that a labour— am really, really worried that a labour government, _ am really, really worried that a labour government, in- am really, really worried that a labour government, in order. am really, really worried that a | labour government, in order to establish — labour government, in order to establish its _ labour government, in order to establish its financial— labour government, in order to establish its financial credibility are whatever _ establish its financial credibility are whatever they _ establish its financial credibility are whatever they are - establish its financial credibility are whatever they are doing i establish its financial credibility| are whatever they are doing will simply— are whatever they are doing will simply sigh _ are whatever they are doing will simply sign up _ are whatever they are doing will simply sign up to— are whatever they are doing will simply sign up to prolonged i simply sign up to prolonged austerity— simply sign up to prolonged austerity and _ simply sign up to prolonged austerity and as _ simply sign up to prolonged austerity and as the - simply sign up to prolonged austerity and as the first i simply sign up to prolonged i austerity and as the first minister of scotland. — austerity and as the first minister of scotland, responsible - austerity and as the first minister of scotland, responsible for- of scotland, responsible for enhancing _ of scotland, responsible for enhancing our— of scotland, responsible for enhancing our health - of scotland, responsible for enhancing our health and i of scotland, responsible for- enhancing our health and education services _ enhancing our health and education services in — enhancing our health and education services in scotland, _ enhancing our health and education services in scotland, which - enhancing our health and education services in scotland, which are i enhancing our health and education services in scotland, which are myl services in scotland, which are my absolute _ services in scotland, which are my absolute priority, _ services in scotland, which are my absolute priority, i— services in scotland, which are my absolute priority, i can't _ services in scotland, which are my absolute priority, i can't do - services in scotland, which are my absolute priority, i can't do that. absolute priority, i can't do that effectively — absolute priority, i can't do that effectively if _ absolute priority, i can't do that effectively if my— absolute priority, i can't do that effectively if my budget - absolute priority, i can't do that effectively if my budget is i absolute priority, i can't do thatj effectively if my budget is being constantly— effectively if my budget is being constantly undermined - effectively if my budget is being constantly undermined and i effectively if my budget is being i constantly undermined and eroded by spending _ constantly undermined and eroded by spending cuts — constantly undermined and eroded by spending cuts from _ constantly undermined and eroded by spending cuts from london. - constantly undermined and eroded by spending cuts from london. well, i spending cuts from london. well, john swinney's — spending cuts from london. well, john swinney's message - spending cuts from london. well, john swinney's message to i spending cuts from londonm john swinney's message to voters spending cuts from london.“ john swinney's message to voters is that labour and the conservatives are pretty much cuts from the same cloth when it comes to fiscal policy and said voters in this general election face a stark choice and would argue that the snp is best placed to deliver poor voters here in scotland. the placed to deliver poor voters here in scotland-— placed to deliver poor voters here in scotland. ., , ., , ., in scotland. the conservatives have unveiled plans _ in scotland. the conservatives have unveiled plans to _ in scotland. the conservatives have unveiled plans to punish _ in scotland. the conservatives have unveiled plans to punish fly-tippersj unveiled plans to punish fly—tippers by adding points to their driving licences and wants to evict disruptive tenants from social housing and our correspondentjess parker has been travelling with rishi sunak. i parker has been travelling with rishi sunak.— rishi sunak. i am on a farm in north-west — rishi sunak. i am on a farm in north-west england _ rishi sunak. i am on a farm in north-west england in - rishi sunak. i am on a farm in l north-west england in cheshire rishi sunak. i am on a farm in i north-west england in cheshire and rishi sunak. i am on a farm in - north-west england in cheshire and i north—west england in cheshire and i want to introduce you to some of the local residents. these are some seven—week old lambs and they are getting ready to meet the prime minister and we understand that rishi sunak may even be bottle feeding them during his visit but the conservatives have been announcing a crackdown on anti—social behaviour in social housing against repeat offenders, people could be evicted, and then on fly—tipping, lower—level offenders could have points added to their drivers licence and here is mel stride. ., , _, ., drivers licence and here is mel stride. ., , drivers licence and here is mel stride. ., stride. people could have points on their driving — stride. people could have points on their driving licences _ stride. people could have points on their driving licences if _ stride. people could have points on their driving licences if they - stride. people could have points on their driving licences if they are - their driving licences if they are found _ their driving licences if they are found guilty of these kinds of offences and i think that is very important — offences and i think that is very important because almost all of these _ important because almost all of these sorts of offences use a vehicle — these sorts of offences use a vehicle in_ these sorts of offences use a vehicle in some form or another and getting _ vehicle in some form or another and getting enough points of this sort on your— getting enough points of this sort on your licence will mean losing your— on your licence will mean losing your license altogether. this policy would apply _ your license altogether. this policy would apply to _ your license altogether. this policy would apply to england _ your license altogether. this policy would apply to england and - your license altogether. this policy would apply to england and labourl would apply to england and labour and the liberal democrats are saying they think the conservatives' record on these issues has been woeful and they have been crisscrossing the country during this campaign including some eye—catching policy announcement such as that on national service but it does not seem to have had any considerable shift in the polls and that is ultimately the kind of cuts route they will be looking for. the liberal democrats are committing to an expansion of free school meals if they are to be elected and so ed davey made the announcement during a visit to a school in harpenden and he will continue his party's campaign in south—west london and damian grammaticas has been following him on the campaign trail. so ed davey made something of doing extreme sports this week and his extreme sports this week and his extreme sports this week and his extreme sport today is baking with primary school kids here on a half term baking course and the lib dems on traditional geography and traditional political territory today and their offer is to expand free school meals and they ultimately want to do that to all primary school children. so ed davey gave us a bit more in the way of details. ,., . , gave us a bit more in the way of details. , , ., , , gave us a bit more in the way of details. _ , ., , , ., details. our policy priority is to rive free details. our policy priority is to give free school _ details. our policy priority is to give free school meals - details. our policy priority is to give free school meals to - details. our policy priority is to i give free school meals to children in poverty— give free school meals to children in poverty so we are proposing to raise _ in poverty so we are proposing to raise a _ in poverty so we are proposing to raise a fresh whole of the threshold of income _ raise a fresh whole of the threshold of income up to £20,000, meaning nearly— of income up to £20,000, meaning nearly a _ of income up to £20,000, meaning nearly a million children living in poverty— nearly a million children living in poverty would get a hot meal a day and i_ poverty would get a hot meal a day and i think— poverty would get a hot meal a day and i think that should be a priority— and i think that should be a priority and a cost of living crisis _ priority and a cost of living crisis -- _ priority and a cost of living crisis. —— to raise the threshold of income _ crisis. -- to raise the threshold of income. , , , crisis. -- to raise the threshold of income. , , ., ., , income. they say they would raise money with _ income. they say they would raise money with that _ income. they say they would raise money with that using _ income. they say they would raise money with that using a _ income. they say they would raise money with that using a tax - income. they say they would raise money with that using a tax that l income. they say they would raise | money with that using a tax that is an idea borrowed from the united states and that would be for children in both primary and secondary schools in england and labour already have that policy in wales and the mayor of london has it in london also what they think it is something they can offer, the lib dems, to distinguish them ultimately with the aspiration to operate to all primary school children and briefly, so ed davey has also been commenting on a number of other things, he said on the issue of defections from the conservatives that the people he was interested in talking to were conservative voters, who he said he thinks would be interested in defecting to the liberal democrats.— interested in defecting to the liberal democrats. , ,, .w ., liberal democrats. lets speak to the shadow minister _ liberal democrats. lets speak to the shadow minister for _ liberal democrats. lets speak to the shadow minister for employment. i shadow minister for employment. thank you for being here on bbc news. we werejust thank you for being here on bbc news. we were just listening to sir keir starmer give a clear answer finally on diane abbott. it has been bad politics though, hasn't it, to just stretch this ahead day after day? it just stretch this ahead day after da ? . , just stretch this ahead day after da ? ., , , , . just stretch this ahead day after da? '. day? it has been difficult because diane is our _ day? it has been difficult because diane is our nation's _ day? it has been difficult because diane is our nation's first - day? it has been difficult because diane is our nation's first black i diane is our nation's first black woman mp and nobody wanted a situation where she had to go through that disciplinary process because of a letter that was written in her name and issues of racism around that, so nobody wanted that situation. that process is completed and now we are getting to the stage where all of our candidates will be announced so these things happen in snap elections but whatever the case, diane is one of our country's trailblazers and i think everybody, you don't have to agree with her politically to think she has played an important role, hugely important, in our politics. you an important role, hugely important, in our politics-— an important role, hugely important, in our politics-_ in our politics. you are right to say these _ in our politics. you are right to say these things _ in our politics. you are right to say these things happen i in our politics. you are right to say these things happen in i in our politics. you are right to i say these things happen in politics but critics would say it is a weakness for sir keir starmer showing him to be leaden footed and we saw the same thing happen when labour ditched its £28 billion commitment for green politics and it stretched out for a few days before we got the announcement. why is he not more nimble? to we got the announcement. why is he not more nimble?— not more nimble? to me ifi am a bit scetical not more nimble? to me ifi am a bit sceptical about _ not more nimble? to me ifi am a bit sceptical about that _ not more nimble? to me ifi am a bit sceptical about that because - not more nimble? to me ifi am a bit sceptical about that because just i not more nimble? to me ifi am a bit sceptical about that because just a i sceptical about that because just a few years ago, the labour party suffered a dreadful defeat in 2019, and at that time, people said it would take us decades to recover from it and here we are. that you are answering _ from it and here we are. that you are answering a _ from it and here we are. that you are answering a different - from it and here we are. that you l are answering a different question. i asked you why he was so leaden footed when he had a decision to make. that is important.- footed when he had a decision to make. that is important. sorry, i ut the make. that is important. sorry, i put the question _ make. that is important. sorry, i put the question was _ make. that is important. sorry, i put the question was is _ make. that is important. sorry, i put the question was is sir- make. that is important. sorry, i put the question was is sir keir. put the question was is sir keir starmer slower at doing things but when he is come to turning the labour party around, he has not been slow at it, and if it is whether our party is playing a ring women mps, and particularly our first black woman mp in parliament, it has been fruitless and dealt with it and i to see us move forward with our candidates and we have been waiting for this election for so long, it feels to me now, so let's just go on to it and change the country in a way i think a lot of people want to see. , ., , ., . , way i think a lot of people want to see. , ., .y , , see. lets turn to policy because that clean _ see. lets turn to policy because that clean power _ see. lets turn to policy becausej that clean power announcement see. lets turn to policy because i that clean power announcement by 2030 and we saw the details there. how expensive will that be? we need to change our energy supply. we need to change our energy supply. we know that. our energy supplies are not secure enough. we rely on oil and gas and that means relying on countries like russia and we have seen the consequences of that. we need to meet the net zeros to challenge which means increasing supply of energy that comes from onshore wind and from solar and offshore wind. that is what the creation of gb energy will do. but some of the _ creation of gb energy will do. but some of the estimates are upward of £100 billion, that is what the transition would cost and you are pledging eight billion and that again, isn't it a sign of the modest change that labour would bring in terms of another major policy? you made your nhs announcement and it was the same charge.— was the same charge. there is a ruestion was the same charge. there is a question of— was the same charge. there is a question of timing _ was the same charge. there is a question of timing because i was the same charge. there is a question of timing because we l was the same charge. there is a i question of timing because we have to start on this journey. we are saying that with judicious use of investment and making sure we have a proper tax on oil and gas we can invest that money, switch on gb energy and get the supply of renewable energy increased. that energy and get the supply of renewable energy increased. at the cost of 200,000 _ renewable energy increased. at the cost of 200,000 jobs, _ renewable energy increased. at the cost of 200,000 jobs, that - renewable energy increased. at the cost of 200,000 jobs, that is - renewable energy increased. at the cost of 200,000 jobs, that is what| cost of 200,000 jobs, that is what the tories say? this cost of 200,000 “obs, that is what the tones say?_ the tories say? this will create “obs. sir the tories say? this will create jobs- sir keir— the tories say? this will create jobs. sir keir starmer- the tories say? this will create jobs. sir keir starmer said i the tories say? this will create i jobs. sir keir starmer said before we know the terrible consequences that can come to communities when energy supply is changed and we will never let that happen to communities in britain again. if you look at places like from where i am from like merseyside which is similar to glasgow and other parts of industrial areas in scotland, i know what it's like to grow up somewhere where jobs are taken away. our energy plans contain money earmarked to create new and good jobs in those places that previously suffered the industrialisation and that is very important because it will mean better paid, good quality engineering jobs into the future. latte engineering “obs into the future. we have engineering jobs into the future. we have to leave it there but thank you for your time and thanks forjoining us will stop that'sjoin for your time and thanks forjoining us will stop that's join the ministerfor women, us will stop that's join the ministerforwomen, mental us will stop that's join the ministerfor women, mental health and women's health. thank you for being with us and i know you have been patiently waiting but let me ask you first of all about labour's green energy plans, is it the right direction? , ., ., , direction? this government has already been — direction? this government has already been doing _ direction? this government has already been doing much i direction? this government has already been doing much of i direction? this government has| already been doing much of that work. energy production from renewables is over 40% now and our energy is supplied from renewables. we have big offshore wind farms and i have one in my constituency which is providing electricity for over 350,000 homes locally. nuclear again, we are leading the way on that with our biggest expansion ever because when labour were last in government they didn't do any of that hard work around the nuclear industry. we havejust announced that hard work around the nuclear industry. we have just announced a big new plant in anglesey for example. but it's really concerning their plans are to switch off oil and gas and the jobs that go with that and not do this in a practical way which could have an impact on people's household bills if it's not done properly. their energy plan is a £38.5 billion black hole and they have not said where that money is going to come from so people, if they are thinking of having a labour government, will need to be clear what this will cost them. he trumpeted _ what this will cost them. he trumpeted what you are doing but isn't the reality with the conservatives you push back your net zero targets, you give a new licences for fossil fuels, you are the party of rewind?— licences for fossil fuels, you are the party of rewind? absolutely not. we met our— the party of rewind? absolutely not. we met our carbon _ the party of rewind? absolutely not. we met our carbon emission - the party of rewind? absolutely not. l we met our carbon emission reduction targets but what we felt was it wasn't fair on the ordinary person and household to have to pay a significant amount towards that in terms of things like changing the cars to go all electric and to ban diesel and petrol cars. we can reduce our carbon emissions and we are doing so and we are on track to do so and we are one of the first countries ever to announce our emission targets. we are leading the way on that. our renewables and now producing 40% of our electricity in this country but there are ways of doing it that doesn't cost the ordinary person in the street a high price for doing so. labour's plans, there is a £38.5 billion black hole. we are nine days into this campaign, you had a blizzard of policy announcements, you look at the polls and they have not budged. have the public made up their minds do you think? if public made up their minds do you think? , ., public made up their minds do you think? i. ., ., ~ ., ., think? if you look at the local elections _ think? if you look at the local elections just _ think? if you look at the local electionsjust a _ think? if you look at the local electionsjust a few _ think? if you look at the local elections just a few weeks i think? if you look at the local| electionsjust a few weeks ago think? if you look at the local i electionsjust a few weeks ago the elections just a few weeks ago the poles were very much out and we did well in many places and the poles were much narrower. the well in many places and the poles were much narrower.— well in many places and the poles were much narrower. the results were in keeina were much narrower. the results were in keeping with — were much narrower. the results were in keeping with the _ were much narrower. the results were in keeping with the poles. _ were much narrower. the results were in keeping with the poles. they - in keeping with the poles. they won't actually. _ in keeping with the poles. they won't actually. poles _ in keeping with the poles. they won't actually. poles have i in keeping with the poles. the: won't actually. poles have been saying for a long time that there is a 20 point gap but that was not the situation, it was much closer. an election like police and crime commissioners we won 19 out of the 33. what i am hearing on the doorsteps is people are still making their mind up but they are fearful of having a sir keir starmer as prime minister. we saw the thiasgo of diane abbott over the last few days and if he can't even manage his own party how is he going to manage the country? it own party how is he going to manage the country?— the country? it wasn't that the similar to _ the country? it wasn't that the similar to the _ the country? it wasn't that the similar to the way _ the country? it wasn't that the similar to the way the - the country? it wasn't that the similar to the way the h52 i the country? it wasn't that the j similar to the way the h52 sim similar to the way the hs2 sim decision was made. you talked about doorknocking, when you ask the public what is the key issue they want addressed, in so many polls it is the nhs and you have not as a party spoken about it at all so far in this campaign in terms of major policy announcements. there has been radio silence, why? we policy announcements. there has been radio silence, why?— radio silence, why? we have been doin: a radio silence, why? we have been doing a huge _ radio silence, why? we have been doing a huge amount _ radio silence, why? we have been doing a huge amount of _ radio silence, why? we have been doing a huge amount of work i radio silence, why? we have been doing a huge amount of work to i radio silence, why? we have been. doing a huge amount of work to get our waiting lists down. they have been down five months in a row. t am been down five months in a row. i am not talkin: been down five months in a row. i am not talking about _ been down five months in a row. i am not talking about your policies over the years, i am talking about what you have spoken about eight days into this campaign to the electorate? it's about national service and triple lock and fly—tipping, why aren't you talking about the nhs? hate fly-tipping, why aren't you talking about the nhs?— fly-tipping, why aren't you talking about the nhs? we are 'ust a week into the election i about the nhs? we are 'ust a week into the election so i about the nhs? we are just a week into the election so there _ about the nhs? we are just a week into the election so there is - about the nhs? we are just a week into the election so there is lots i into the election so there is lots of opportunities we will have to talk about the nhs. it is a key issue on the doorstep and when i explained to people that yes we do have waiting lists here in england and they are dropping the fifth month in a row but if you look at how labour run health service in wales they waiting lists are significantly longer. the outcomes are worse. people are surprised to hear that and that is what we need to shine a light on come the plans of all parties and they will be plenty of time for us to talk about the nhs as we get closer tojuly the 4th. the nhs as we get closer to july the 4th. ~ the nhs as we get closer to july the 4th. . ., the nhs as we get closer to july the 4th. ~ ., ., ., ltth. we have to leave it there. thank 4th. we have to leave it there. thank you _ ltth. we have to leave it there. thank you for— 4th. we have to leave it there. thank you forjoining _ 4th. we have to leave it there. thank you forjoining us - 4th. we have to leave it there. thank you forjoining us live i 4th. we have to leave it there. thank you forjoining us live on 4th. we have to leave it there. i thank you forjoining us live on bbc news. this speak to richard ford, the liberal democrat spokesperson for defence who is in devon. we heard your leader make his pitch this morning and talking about free school meals. in terms of the cost of that, what does that add up to? this is a really valuable addition to what schools can already offer and free school meals are something which a really useful notjust for the people who are receiving them but also to the learning environment for all pupils in the class. what henry dimbleby found when he looked into this in 2022, he was writing a strategy for government, and he found children who are hungry can distract the children whereas children who have full bellies are much more likely to apply themselves to the work. it is not going to just impact on those children in poverty, it will impact on all generation. hate it will impact on all generation. we were just talking about labour's energy plans. are those plans you would back?— energy plans. are those plans you would back? ., ., .., , would back? labour have come up with an interesting — would back? labour have come up with an interesting idea _ would back? labour have come up with an interesting idea and _ would back? labour have come up with an interesting idea and it's _ would back? labour have come up with an interesting idea and it's good - an interesting idea and it's good that you were able to interview labour about labour's plans. for the liberal democrats, we have long called for a proper windfall tax on the oil and gas giants and in fact we were the first party in the uk in recent years to call for a proper windfall tax. there is an investment local in the conservatives on plans around how they raise revenue from these oil and gas giants and we have crunched the numbers and we know we could raise an additional £15 billion from the oil and gas companies by implanting a proper windfall tax. in companies by implanting a proper windfall tax.— windfall tax. in terms of liberal democrat policies, _ windfall tax. in terms of liberal democrat policies, you - windfall tax. in terms of liberal democrat policies, you quite i windfall tax. in terms of liberal. democrat policies, you quite often in your comments about labour specifically want that party to go further if they were in government. when you do your sums, does that amount and translate to tax rises ultimately? tt amount and translate to tax rises ultimately?— amount and translate to tax rises ultimatel ? ., ~ ., ,., ultimately? if we are thinking about oil and as ultimately? if we are thinking about oil and gas revenue _ ultimately? if we are thinking about oil and gas revenue we _ ultimately? if we are thinking about oil and gas revenue we don't - ultimately? if we are thinking about oil and gas revenue we don't think. oil and gas revenue we don't think it's necessary to levy additional taxes on consumers because we know that the producers, the big oil and gas companies, can definitely afford to contribute more. but gas companies, can definitely afford to contribute more.— to contribute more. but across the board when _ to contribute more. but across the board when you — to contribute more. but across the board when you urge _ to contribute more. but across the board when you urge labour- to contribute more. but across the board when you urge labour to i to contribute more. but across the board when you urge labour to go | board when you urge labour to go further on education and go further on health, do you accept if you were in power that actually it would inevitably mean tax rises? there are certain areas — inevitably mean tax rises? there are certain areas where _ inevitably mean tax rises? there are certain areas where we _ inevitably mean tax rises? there are certain areas where we know - inevitably mean tax rises? there are certain areas where we know more l certain areas where we know more revenue could be raised from large corporations. just to give you another example, the share buy—back scheme we are talking about today, we have worked out we could raise an additional £1.1t billion by preventing companies from buying back their own shares or if they do buy back their own shares and levying a 1t% tax on that. many companies may choose to continue to do so but if we levy to 1t% tax we could raise an additional £1.1t billion and we would seek to invest some of that in free school meals in the weight you have suggested earlier. hate the weight you have suggested earlier. ~ ., ., ., earlier. we have to leave it there but thanks _ earlier. we have to leave it there but thanks for _ earlier. we have to leave it there but thanks forjoining _ earlier. we have to leave it there but thanks forjoining us - earlier. we have to leave it there but thanks forjoining us live i earlier. we have to leave it there but thanks forjoining us live on . but thanks forjoining us live on the programme. let's recap in terms of those energy announcements we were talking about because labour is pledging to set up a publicly owned company, great british energy, which is says will invest in clean power and drive down energy bills. the snp and drive down energy bills. the snp and conservatives say labour's plans will cost tens of thousands of jobs. labour says it plans would deliver lower energy bills. nick eardley from bbc verify has been taking a look. ,., ., from bbc verify has been taking a look. , ., ., ., from bbc verify has been taking a look. ,., ., ., ., �* �* , look. good morning from bbc verify. we are going — look. good morning from bbc verify. we are going to _ look. good morning from bbc verify. we are going to look— look. good morning from bbc verify. we are going to look up _ look. good morning from bbc verify. we are going to look up the - look. good morning from bbc verify. we are going to look up the claims i we are going to look up the claims the parties are making and see what stacks up and see what doesn't. let's talk about what the general election means for new energy bills. labour is talking today about this, great british energy, a publicly owned power company they want to set up. and they are claiming today that this will mean lower energy bills. they also say under the conservatives prices would be higher. but are they right and where is the evidence? let's start with some context. we've all experienced the cost of living going up and energy bills were a huge part of it. this is what happened in the past couple of years. big increases in the cost of gas and that meant big increases in bills. the government did subsidise some energy bills and as you can see the cost of gas has come down a lot recently. but what happens next? labour say they plan will bring bills down. they want to build more renewable energy because renewable power is cheaper they say it will save people money. this is the figure they have put on it, £300 per year. the figure they have put on it, £300 peryear. but the figure they have put on it, £300 per year. but that figure requires a big switch to renewables. i asked labour how they arrived at this figure and here is what they pointed to, a study that says he would need 98% of electricity from clean sources. that is a big increase. it would cost money for infrastructure and this is important, it will take and this is important, it will take a few years. you are not going to see that happen right away if labour win power. there is also this claim in labour's press release today, they say the conservative plans will cost families money because at the moment the uk imports a lot of gas and that means rising international gas prices have more of an impact. as you can see here, they have said there is the threat for £900 annual energy price spikes under the tories. but we think this is unlikely. labour is assuming that prices go up in the same way they did during the cost of living squeeze, that there is another massive shock in the energy market, thatis massive shock in the energy market, that is very uncertain indeed. the recent price rises have not been normal. the conservatives also have pledged get more green energy and if that happened it would mean less reliance on gas imports and it could also reduce prices. so bills could go down if his plan works but some of the figures are uncertain, particularly when it comes to what legacy would happen if the conservatives stayed in power. we will have more from the campaigning in a moment or two but we will turn away from that to bring you a couple of really important stories because a nine—year—old girl is in a critical condition in hospital after shooting in north—east london. three men were also seriously injured in the attack with one of them potentially suffering life changing injuries. police said they were to crime scenes, one with the shooting took place and another way a stolen motorbike was recovered. an investigation has been going since yesterday. james connolly, detective chief superintendent at the met, gave us an update a short time ago. i would officer's have established the motorbike was previously stolen in 2021— the motorbike was previously stolen in 2021 from a property in wembley in 2021 from a property in wembley in london — in 2021 from a property in wembley in london. at the time of the shooting. _ in london. at the time of the shooting, the bike was displaying the registration plates d, p, 21, oh, x. — the registration plates d, p, 21, oh, x. y. — the registration plates d, p, 21, oh, x, v. we — the registration plates d, p, 21, oh, x, y. we are releasing an image of the _ oh, x, y. we are releasing an image of the motorbike today and want to hear from — of the motorbike today and want to hear from anyone who might recognise it. i hear from anyone who might recognise it~ lam _ hear from anyone who might recognise it. lam particularly hear from anyone who might recognise it. i am particularly keen to hear from _ it. i am particularly keen to hear from you — it. i am particularly keen to hear from you if— it. i am particularly keen to hear from you if you saw it on the day of the incident — from you if you saw it on the day of the incident. or perhaps you recognise it from being parked up in a driveway— recognise it from being parked up in a driveway or a specific location. or do— a driveway or a specific location. or do you — a driveway or a specific location. or do you know someone who has been usin- or do you know someone who has been using the _ or do you know someone who has been using the bike at any point over the last three _ using the bike at any point over the last three years? and bear in mind it may— last three years? and bear in mind it may not — last three years? and bear in mind it may not have been displaying the same _ it may not have been displaying the same registration plates as those which _ same registration plates as those which i _ same registration plates as those which i released today. any information, no matter how big or small. _ information, no matter how big or small, could prove pivotal for this investigation. small, could prove pivotalfor this investigation.— investigation. that was the latest from the police. _ investigation. that was the latest from the police. let's _ investigation. that was the latest from the police. let's go - investigation. that was the latest from the police. let's go straight| from the police. let's go straight to our correspondent who is in east london. tell us more, we were hearing the latest from the police but give me a sense of what people are saying to you because they must be a huge amount of shock in terms of what happened yesterday. yes there is and _ of what happened yesterday. yes there is and as _ of what happened yesterday. yes there is and as you mentioned earlier there are two crime scenes here in east london. i am five minutes from kingsland high street where the incident took place on wednesday evening around 9:20pm. that is still very much the focus for forensic officers who are still taking photographs and going over the scene. we are at the second crime scene which is very much returned to normal, this is where the met police say they found that motorbike they were able to provide us with more information about, saying it was a ducati motorbike, red and white with the registration number that was stolen back in 2021. but we also found out some other information, particularly about the three men who were injured in the attack. it's been confirmed they are from the turkish and kurdish communities here in north and north—east london. two of those men aged 44 and 42 are in a stable condition in hospital but one of them faces life changing injuries. a37—year—old man has been released from hospital. and joining james conway here at this press conference was a turkish cypriot leader and community leader and he was here to reach out to that community and ask anyone who knows any information regarding the incident to come forward and to help the police. he was very much saying the community could hold the answers to this incident and what happened that has left four people with gunshot injuries. so lots more information emerging today but no arrests and very much a sense of more information together. thousands of nhs cancer patients _ information together. thousands of nhs cancer patients across - information together. thousands of nhs cancer patients across england are going to be invited to take part in trials of new personalised vaccines in what has been described as a landmark moment in cancer treatment. the vaccines are designed to prime the immune system to recognise and destroy any remaining cancer cells after surgery so it reduces the risk of the disease returning. a little later in the programme we will bring you more on that development from fergus walsh, but that is a headline that is getting a lot of attention and we will return to that in the next little while. we are going to move to another story because it's an important developing story, hackers are attempting to sell what they see as confidential information belonging to millions of santander staff and customers. they belong to the same gang which this week claimed to have hacked ticketmaster. the bank employs 200,000 people worldwide including around 20,000 here in the uk has confirmed data has been stolen. let's get an update from our cyber correspondent. this will concern a lot of people. tell us more about the details. it is us more about the details. it is extremely _ us more about the details. tt 3 extremely concerning because this is the entire global staff of santander who have confirmed have been involved in the data breach. we don't know what information of raise the hackers have but santander has said this is affecting the global number of staff so that 200,000 people worldwide including 20,000 in the uk. we know in terms of the customer detail that its customers in chile, spain and uruguay who are affected. the hackers themselves posted last week —— last night the sale of the state and they say they have 30 million customer accounts that they have in those countries and that includes 6 million account numbers and balances, 28 million credit card numbers. we have not had that part confirmed by santander but a couple of weeks ago santander they put on notice out on their website that says we have been involved in a data breach and we are contacting all affected customers. they won't say how many numbers that is that we have confirmed there is a breach and i imagine they are not cooperating with the hackers and hackers are trying to sell this data for about $2 million. d0 trying to sell this data for about $2 million-— trying to sell this data for about $2 million. ~ ., ., , $2 million. do we know anything about the demands _ $2 million. do we know anything about the demands of _ $2 million. do we know anything about the demands of the i $2 million. do we know anything. about the demands of the hackers $2 million. do we know anything i about the demands of the hackers and when you say the bank is contacting customers, what are they saying to people? hate customers, what are they saying to --eole? ~ ., �* customers, what are they saying to --eole?~ ., �* ~ ., customers, what are they saying to --eole? ~ ., �* ~ ., ., people? we don't know what their advice is going _ people? we don't know what their advice is going to _ people? we don't know what their advice is going to be _ people? we don't know what their advice is going to be to _ people? we don't know what their advice is going to be to the - advice is going to be to the customers. it all depends on when these breaches happen. it all depends on what kind of data the hackers of god because santander is saying there is nothing you can do with this data that would extract money from accounts which is obviously some comfort but it doesn't take a big leap of the imagination to try to come up with an idea for how you could carry out secondary attack you had the names, account numbers and account balances of that many people. this is not going to be giving anyone any ideas but it's the kind of thing you would expect way they would pick out the high—value targets and carry out secondary attacks. it is concerning for those people but we don't know how many are affected by this. the advice is to wait and see whether or not you are one of those people who has been affected. in terms of the hackers, they are called shiny hunters and reposted this last night. it comes off the back of a very eye—catching pack they have done against ticketmaster which they are claiming is even bigger than this one. that one is yet to be confirmed and we are all suspicious about whether or not that is real. this is clearly a developing story and thank you for giving us the latest. let's return to the election and let's talk to two political journalists, the baticle correspondent for the guardian and the political correspondent at the financial times. thank you for being here on bbc news. let's take a step back, we are nine days into the campaign, give us a 45 second snapshot about how you think the campaigns are going. it snapshot about how you think the campaigns are going.— campaigns are going. it has been cuite the campaigns are going. it has been quite the week. _ campaigns are going. it has been quite the week. it _ campaigns are going. it has been quite the week. it kicked - campaigns are going. it has been quite the week. it kicked off i campaigns are going. it has been quite the week. it kicked off with| quite the week. it kicked off with rishi sunak launching this eye—catching pledge to introduce mandatory national service for young people, a plan that was immediately described as bunkers by former military leaders and conservative figures. fast forward a few hours and you had nigel farage doing the rounds making some striking claims about young muslims not sharing british values and using that as a grounding to say really need to look at immigration is a national emergency in this country. then we had sir keir starmer making a real personal speech talking about his love for the english countryside and appealing to voters saying his economic struggle as a person something he still lives with and it's something which shapes his politics and the difficult decisions he's making today. now we are looking at a labour party that has run a slick campaign so far, that has been overshadowed by a row involving the veteran mp diane abbott. we will see it confirmed that she will stand as a candidate on tuesday but it has dominated the headlines for the last couple of days. it has been unnecessary. it's something which should have been confirmed months ago. lloathed something which should have been confirmed months ago.— something which should have been confirmed months ago. what is your take? i agree- _ confirmed months ago. what is your take? i agree. in _ confirmed months ago. what is your take? i agree. in black-and-white i take? i agree. in black-and-white termsi take? i agree. in black-and-white terms i would _ take? i agree. in black-and-white terms i would say _ take? i agree. in black-and-white terms i would say last _ take? i agree. in black-and-white terms i would say last week i take? i agree. in black-and-white terms i would say last week was l terms i would say last week was pretty— terms i would say last week was pretty damaging for rishi sunak. he didn't_ pretty damaging for rishi sunak. he didn't come out of it looking well. there _ didn't come out of it looking well. there was— didn't come out of it looking well. there was a — didn't come out of it looking well. there was a lot of reporting about that huge — there was a lot of reporting about that huge exodus of tory mps, bigger than before the 1997 landslide, including his figures like michael gove _ including his figures like michael gove. that dominated headlines going into the _ gove. that dominated headlines going into the weekend. this week i would say it— into the weekend. this week i would say it has— into the weekend. this week i would say it has been a much worse week for sir— say it has been a much worse week for sir keir— say it has been a much worse week for sir keir starmerand his say it has been a much worse week for sir keir starmer and his party. almost— for sir keir starmer and his party. almost nothing they have done has cut through because it's been dominated by this bizarre and badly managed _ dominated by this bizarre and badly managed drama about the selections and the _ managed drama about the selections and the purging of left—wing figures in the _ and the purging of left—wing figures in the party including the behemoth that is_ in the party including the behemoth that is diane abbott. | in the party including the behemoth that is diane abbott. i was in the party including the behemoth that is diane abbott.— that is diane abbott. i was 'ust talkin: to that is diane abbott. i was 'ust talking to a fi that is diane abbott. i was 'ust talking to a labour * that is diane abbott. i was 'ust talking to a labour mp i that is diane abbott. i was 'ust talking to a labour mp andh that is diane abbott. i wasjust i talking to a labour mp and saying sir keir starmer had been leaden footed and she pushed back but do you think that is a fair assessment of the way this has been handled? i of the way this has been handled? i think it has been handled very bizarrely _ think it has been handled very bizarrely. they could have got on top of _ bizarrely. they could have got on top of this— bizarrely. they could have got on top of this from the beginning. just thinking _ top of this from the beginning. just thinking about diane abbott, they did this _ thinking about diane abbott, they did this back door deal and unfortunately, just to clarify, they .ave unfortunately, just to clarify, they gave diane abbott a back door deal saying _ gave diane abbott a back door deal saying we _ gave diane abbott a back door deal saying we will reinstall the web and then wherr— saying we will reinstall the web and then when it comes to the election you will_ then when it comes to the election you will stand down. but then the story— you will stand down. but then the story leaked, there was a huge feeling — story leaked, there was a huge feeling of— story leaked, there was a huge feeling of betrayal plus there was the deselecting of fides shaheed a major— the deselecting of fides shaheed a major left—wing candidate and it kind of— major left—wing candidate and it kind of blew up. it major left-wing candidate and it kind of blew up.— major left-wing candidate and it kind of blew up. it all fed into the same questions _ kind of blew up. it all fed into the same questions being _ kind of blew up. it all fed into the same questions being asked. - kind of blew up. it all fed into the same questions being asked. we| kind of blew up. it all fed into the - same questions being asked. we only have two or three minutes left so let's go through it. the poles are not really moving, what do you think is going on? the not really moving, what do you think is going on?— is going on? the poles are not movin: is going on? the poles are not moving on _ is going on? the poles are not moving on to _ is going on? the poles are not moving on to be _ is going on? the poles are not moving on to be honest - is going on? the poles are not moving on to be honest nigel| is going on? the poles are not - moving on to be honest nigel farage made a point at his press conference on tuesday basically saying that it seems as though it might be a done dealfor labour although seems as though it might be a done deal for labour although sir seems as though it might be a done dealfor labour although sir keir starmer and his team will insist they are not complacent. he has even acknowledged he has a lot more persuading to do in terms of trying to get all people to fully support him. but ultimately it seems as though people have been encouraged to simply vote with their heart. you have people were slightly disgruntled with the party that might be a little bit inclined to vote for the greens or maybe some independence but it's not looking like it's going to make a huge difference in terms of labour getting a decent majority. we are also seeing the liberal democrats dominating headlines, ed davey on the slide yesterday. we will see more of him cooking i am told by liberal democrats. he has done his first newspaper interview with the guardian. is first newspaper interview with the guardian. , ., guardian. is there enough interaction _ guardian. is there enough interaction of _ guardian. is there enough interaction of the - guardian. is there enough interaction of the leaders | guardian. is there enough - interaction of the leaders with the public? i interaction of the leaders with the ublic? ~ ., , , public? i think there has been. it has been fairly _ public? i think there has been. it has been fairly staged _ public? i think there has been. it has been fairly staged but - public? i think there has been. it has been fairly staged but not. public? i think there has been. it has been fairly staged but not all of it has— has been fairly staged but not all of it has gone very well and i think they are _ of it has gone very well and i think they are starting to get a bit more cautious— they are starting to get a bit more cautious about how they do it. you may have — cautious about how they do it. you may have seen last week rishi sunak, there _ may have seen last week rishi sunak, there was— may have seen last week rishi sunak, there was a _ may have seen last week rishi sunak, there was a whole gaffe because some of the _ there was a whole gaffe because some of the people asking questions were on a work— of the people asking questions were on a work site visit and they turned out to— on a work site visit and they turned out to be _ on a work site visit and they turned out to be local councillors and that was never — out to be local councillors and that was never well explained. there was another— was never well explained. there was another issue yesterday when rishi sunak— another issue yesterday when rishi sunak was— another issue yesterday when rishi sunak was challenged on partygate by somebody who lost their mother during _ somebody who lost their mother during the coronavirus pandemic. it has not _ during the coronavirus pandemic. it has not always gone well for the leaders — has not always gone well for the leaders and they are starting to feel quite cautious.— feel quite cautious. they have -len feel quite cautious. they have len of feel quite cautious. they have plenty of time _ feel quite cautious. they have plenty of time still _ feel quite cautious. they have plenty of time still to - feel quite cautious. they have plenty of time still to iron - feel quite cautious. they have plenty of time still to iron out| feel quite cautious. they have - plenty of time still to iron out the wrinkles. we have to leave it there but thank you forjoining us on the programme and giving us your thoughts on this first week or so. let me point you to the bbc website because that is being regularly updated with the live page, over campaign stories and that development on diane abbott leading the bbc�*s website coverage. you are washing bbc news. live from london, this is bbc news. welcome, let's turn to our main headlines. labourfinally decides welcome, let's turn to our main headlines. labour finally decides on diane abbott's future. sir keir starmer says she is free to go forward as a candidate. donald trump is found guilty on all 35 counts of falsifying business records and says he will appeal the decision and this is new york where does trump will speak later this afternoon and we will be live. on the general election campaign, the conservatives promise tougher penalties for fly—tipping while labour talks about a new nationalised energy company. and thousands of bowel cancer patients will soon have access to a bespoke vaccination as part of a trial. welcome to bbc news. throughout the course of the next few hours, we are juggling to throughout the course of the next few hours, we arejuggling to make huge stories because we will be live in new york and the next little while and we are expecting within an hour to hearfrom donald trump while and we are expecting within an hour to hear from donald trump after that really astonishing news overnight but letters turn for the first few minutes to the election campaign, because in the last hour, we have seen the labour leader sir keir starmer saying diane abbott is free to go forward as his party's candidates for hackney north and stoke newington in the general election and he had previously said it was up to the party's national executive committee to decide if she could run and sir keir starmer has been talking to journalists. that's a big lesson. been talking to 'ournalists. that's a big lesson— been talking to 'ournalists. that's a big lsn— been talking to 'ournalists. that's a lolg lon— a big lesson. diane abbott was elected in _ a big lesson. diane abbott was elected in 1987, _ a big lesson. diane abbott was elected in 1987, the _ a big lesson. diane abbott was elected in 1987, the first - a big lesson. diane abbott was elected in 1987, the first black| elected in 1987, the first black woman mp and she has been a trailblazer and carved a path for others to come into politics and public life and the web has been restored to her now and she is free to go forward as a labour candidate. have you spoken to diana and does she understand she is free to go forward — she understand she is free to go forward and stand? she she understand she is free to go forward and stand?— she understand she is free to go forward and stand? she is free to go forward and stand? she is free to go forward as a — forward and stand? she is free to go forward as a candidate _ forward and stand? she is free to go forward as a candidate and - forward and stand? she is free to go forward as a candidate and the - forward and stand? she is free to go forward as a candidate and the web. forward as a candidate and the web is back with her and has been restored and she has been a trailblazer for many years and has cleared the path for others to come into politics, so formally a matter for the nec but i have not expressed my view up until now, she is free to go forward as a candidate. —— the whip. go forward as a candidate. -- the whi n . , , ., . go forward as a candidate. -- the whin. ,, ., , whip. distracting labour promotes the have whip. distracting labour promotes they have wanted _ whip. distracting labour promotes they have wanted to _ whip. distracting labour promotes they have wanted to focus - whip. distracting labour promotes they have wanted to focus on - whip. distracting labour promotes i they have wanted to focus on during this campaign, that story, and now we have a clear reaction from the labour leader. let's go to harry farley, and all the sort of timelines they may have wanted to follow, thatjust could not last given the intensity of the questions, could its? that is exactly right _ questions, could its? that is exactly right and _ questions, could its? that is exactly right and i _ questions, could its? that is exactly right and i think - questions, could its? that is exactly right and i think we i questions, could its? that is - exactly right and i think we know the political parties in these very intense campaign periods have what is called a mediocre read and they have set things they want to talk about every day, set policies and set areas to focus on, every as they think they are strong on and they have a strong offering to voters and the opposition, their opponents, a be gone and basically what has happened to that labour grid over the last three of fall days or so is it has been entirely ripped up and instead every labour minister and mp, are decisions over the last few days have been dominated by this row over diane abbott and whether she would be allowed to stand as a labour candidate in the general election and it obviously all started with a briefing to a new spire that said she had been barred and keir starmer saying repeatedly over the last few days that was not right and no decision had been made but there were increasing questions over whether she would be allowed to stand and it was interesting because this morning sir keir starmer was at an event, a campaign rally in the west of scotland and was asked about this and asked multiple times whether he agreed with his deputy, angela rayner, who said she could see no reason why diane abbott should not be allowed to run, and he didn't take the opportunity to agree with her then and he maintains that line that no decision had been taken and gets coming out a few hours later to say that in his view, she was free to run. we later to say that in his view, she was free to run.— later to say that in his view, she was free to run. we have seen from diane abbott _ was free to run. we have seen from diane abbott over _ was free to run. we have seen from diane abbott over the _ was free to run. we have seen from diane abbott over the last - was free to run. we have seen from diane abbott over the last couple i was free to run. we have seen from j diane abbott over the last couple of days, she has accused the labour party of trying to purge the left from the party and i suppose the question about whether it does the party and keir starmer lasting damage would depend a bit on what she chooses to say going forward. i she chooses to say going forward. 1 think that is exactly right and we have not heard from diane abbott since keir starmer said that, out in front of the cameras just a few hours ago to say that, so we will wait and see what she decides to do next. i think more generally, remember that diane abbott was a key ally of the former labour leader jeremy corbyn, and one of the arguments labour and keir starmer have been wanting to make is labour has changed, and one of the battles keir starmer has fought notjust in this election campaign but actually over the last few years as labour leader is to try to move the party away from the left wing of the party, you know, jeremy corbyn allies and so on, and actually, this is quite an interesting development in that battle, that internal battle he has been fighting with the left of his own party and i suppose diane abbott now allowed to stand and we understand that although the final decision will be made next week by the national executive committee of the national executive committee of the labour ultimately keir starmer control start and has a majority on that and won't block diane abbott standing as a labour candidate. thank you very much, harry, for bringing us the latest of that story there in westminster. donald trump has become the first ever serving or former us president to become convicted of a crime and this is the scene outside of trump tower in new york may be are expecting to hear from the former president and about in our�*s time and that may bounce around a bit but that is what we are expecting. it was last night found guilty on all of the 3a counts he was charged with, from falsifying business records to attempting to influence an election and he will still be able to run for president even with a criminal conviction and he has claimed the trail was rigged and he will appeal and he is due to be sentenced injuly. let's evaluate the extraordinary events of the last 24 the extraordinary events of the last 2a hours and go straight to new york and straight tojohn sudworth who was there in new york for us, and apologise, we will come to join in a moment or two because i can see him there in trump tower and we are trying to establish the line, but john has been looking at the last extraordinary 2a hours. have a look. in a nearby park, his opponents celebrated. trump is guilty! while inside the court, the former president was walking into history... are you worried about going to jail? ..as the first ever to be convicted of a crime. this was a disgrace, this was a rigged trial by a conflicted judge who was corrupt. it's a rigged trial, a disgrace. but it was a jury who convicted him on the evidence — 31l counts of falsifying business records to disguise hush money payments to the porn star stormy daniels, for the purpose, prosecutors said, of keeping her claim that they had had sex from the american public, just ahead of the 2016 election. the verdict brought only gloom to mr trump's supporters, who were left repeating those claims of political persecution. and they are afraid of a much more popular opponent, whcih they know will defeat them. but this was a decision made by 12 ordinary new yorkers, your fellow citizens. there is nothing political about that, is there? i'm not going to say that the jury was tainted, but who knows? who knows? so, despite the sense of despondency amongst the trump supporters, it is all pretty good—natured here, although, as you can see, there is a pretty large police presence just in case. the bigger question, though, is what the reaction will be longer term with america now in uncharted territory. you can't even see the back! there so many people here. there's so many people here. what effect will it have on his election chances? will it put those crucial undecided voters off or draw others to him? and what about the impact of his attack on america's institutions? attacks on america's institutions? already intensifying in the wake of the verdict. the man who brought the case insisted the result was a sign the justice system is working. while this defendant may be unlike any other in american history, we arrived at this trial and ultimately today at this verdict in the same manner as every other case that comes through the court room doors. by following the facts and the law and doing so without fear or favour. millions will agree with him and millions won't. sentencing will be in earlyjuly. mr trump is unlikely, legal experts say, to go to jail, but either way, one half of a divided country now has a convicted criminal as its candidate. john sudworth, bbc news, new york. asi as i say, we will talk tojohn again in a moment or two but first let's speak to a former us federal prosecutor and i want to rewind slightly to when you were watching last night and the first of those 44 counts came in guilty and then repeated a number 33 times. tell me what was going through your mind as you watched that play out. good what was going through your mind as you watched that play out.— you watched that play out. good to be with you. _ you watched that play out. good to be with you, matthew. _ you watched that play out. good to be with you, matthew. up - you watched that play out. good to be with you, matthew. up until- you watched that play out. good to i be with you, matthew. up until about two days prior, i said i was still at about 50—50 as to whether there would be convictions or not but that last date with the jury would be convictions or not but that last date with thejury instructions being introduced, thejudge gave the jury being introduced, thejudge gave the jury multiple paths to conflict donald trump and they are busy took one of those three parts, and once they did for the first charge, it was not surprising the other 33 went the same way because they are basically all interconnected so yes, it is a shock and i think people will debate vigorously over the quality of these charges and the fairness and all of that and there is an appellate process that will review all of that but i do think it is really important for people regardless of your political alignment or beliefs in this case to remember, you know, we have a fantastic system of laws here that we have to respect and remain peaceful and i do believe that will prevail so we might get some short—term flare ups but i think in the long run, people will respect this moving forward.— the long run, people will respect this moving forward. briefly, what ou think this moving forward. briefly, what you think of _ this moving forward. briefly, what you think of the _ this moving forward. briefly, what you think of the sentencing, - this moving forward. briefly, what you think of the sentencing, the i you think of the sentencing, the options actually are? most people rule out any sort ofjail time. what is yourfort on rule out any sort ofjail time. what is your fort on that, and do you think there are grounds here for him to appeal? —— your thought. fin to appeal? —— your thought. on sentencing, normally for a first time offender of a nonviolent crime, gel type wouldn't be on the table, but in terms of his violating the 939 but in terms of his violating the gag order and his lack of acknowledgement or remorse of having done anything wrong, that will work against him, and i personally hope we don't go to jail time because i think it would just be such a embarrassment nationally and he can be punished other ways like with home confinement or other kinds of probationary restrictions. there are serious questions about this case which was an unprecedented case and involved federal and state finance laws and that was unprecedented and i would not be surprised if they look very critically at that on appeal but that being said, it will be some time before it works its way through the appellate system suitable would be left was scratching our heads. months now. when you watch that six week trial, what did you make of the defence strategy? it was interesting because in the end it simply boils down to effectively seeing two things, really, that the events with stormy daniels didn't happen and that michael cohen wasjust a daniels didn't happen and that michael cohen was just a proven liar, and that clearly didn't seem to be enough and there wasn't an alternative story told to the jury, was there? i alternative story told to the “my, was onenes— was there? i think the first point about fighting — was there? i think the first point about fighting over _ was there? i think the first point about fighting over whether - was there? i think the first point about fighting over whether or i was there? i think the first point i about fighting over whether or not the incident in 2006 happened was probably a wasted effort because the reality is it didn't matter, right? so i think the defence probably tied itself in knots in a bit too much on fighting that point were it simply could have focused on accounting and whether the payments were dealt with in 2017 so they may have lost the jury in 2017 so they may have lost the jury a bit on fighting over that 2006 alleged incident. i jury a bit on fighting over that 2006 alleged incident. i suspect, and many would _ 2006 alleged incident. i suspect, and many would suspect - 2006 alleged incident. i suspect, and many would suspect that - 2006 alleged incident. i suspect, j and many would suspect that was 2006 alleged incident. i suspect, - and many would suspect that was the difficulty for the legal team, actually having donald trump the man is the client and the sort of things he wants for his reasons to establish in a trial. j he wants for his reasons to establish in a trial.- he wants for his reasons to establish in a trial. i think that is rilht, establish in a trial. i think that is right, matthew, _ establish in a trial. i think that is right, matthew, and - establish in a trial. i think that is right, matthew, and i- establish in a trial. i think that is right, matthew, and i think| establish in a trial. i think that | is right, matthew, and i think it has been speculated that he was probably driving that, an insistence to fight over that point where i think i remember after stormy daniels testified, i think that probably if i were at the defence, would have said, no questions, and just sat down and just not even recognise it and try to just move on, but they instead got into a fight over it and i'm sure the jury saw that and that raised a question of who was being truthful, so once you have that question and your mind, you shift to what actually counts, ok, the financial records, he was being truthful they are? and on the point about michael cohen, he is the worst witness i could possibly think of but obviously he was enough for this jury and the corroborating evidence that was along with it so the jury obviously had to weigh donald trump, whose truthfulness is, let's say, questionable in his own light, versus michael cohen, and they obviously felt that the latter�*s testimony one over. and obviously felt that the latter's testimony one over.— obviously felt that the latter's testimony one over. and the way the prosecution — testimony one over. and the way the prosecution built _ testimony one over. and the way the prosecution built day _ testimony one over. and the way the prosecution built day by _ testimony one over. and the way the prosecution built day by day - testimony one over. and the way the prosecution built day by day their - prosecution built day by day their case, all of that cooperating evidence before you go to michael cohen who simply said, yes, i did all of these things and did it on behest of donald trump and in the end that convinced the jury but you said earlier on and you answer that you perhaps didn't want to jail time because it would be a national embarrassment. on that beam, how embarrassing... in terms of a sort of national mood and the division this has already caused, give me your assessment of that going forward. —— on that theme. your assessment of that going forward. -- on that theme. well, it is not forward. -- on that theme. well, it is rlot good- — forward. -- on that theme. well, it is rlot good- i— forward. -- on that theme. well, it is not good. i think _ forward. -- on that theme. well, it is not good. i think that, _ forward. -- on that theme. well, it is not good. i think that, i - forward. -- on that theme. well, it is not good. i think that, i hope - is not good. i think that, i hope that when the prosecution opted to pursue this case, that they realised what they were doing here and that regardless of the outcome, it was going to cause a lot of division and so now here we are and you have half the people, as your interviews were showing earlier, half of the country will say this was not fair where is the other half will say it was totally fair and so now we will have this argument, and sol totally fair and so now we will have this argument, and so i hope it was worth it. i personally was never that impressed with these charges and felt they should have held back for more serious things like january the 6th or the mara logo supply documents case and i felt those had more teeth and i felt this was relatively weak, but there we are, this was resolved first. —— the mar—a—lago case. but even if you don't think this was the best expression of our system, our system works, and if donald trump has serious concerns about whether or not this case was wrong, he has a path to pursue those concerns but it should be done peacefully and in line with the rule of law. goad should be done peacefully and in line with the rule of law. good to talk to you. _ line with the rule of law. good to talk to you, and _ line with the rule of law. good to talk to you, and i _ line with the rule of law. good to talk to you, and i think _ line with the rule of law. good to talk to you, and i think that - line with the rule of law. good to talk to you, and i think that a - line with the rule of law. good to talk to you, and i think that a lot| talk to you, and i think that a lot of legal pundits have made the same point, saying that when they look at the four major cases involving donald trump, they think this is the weakest, so this is interesting that despite that assessment we still had a guilty verdicts that we saw overnight. thank you forjoining us there from the us to talk about what we saw and outlets and back to new york and john sudworth, our correspondence there in trump tower. just give us a feel of what it is like where you are.— just give us a feel of what it is like where you are. well, matthew, rilht in like where you are. well, matthew, right in the — like where you are. well, matthew, right in the heart _ like where you are. well, matthew, right in the heart of— like where you are. well, matthew, right in the heart of the _ like where you are. well, matthew, right in the heart of the grandeur i right in the heart of the grandeur of the lobby of trump tower and you can see the assembled media here, pretty tightly packed in. the lectern on which he will speak is just over my shoulder there and what we can't see on that side, just a few metres away, is the golden escalator that donald trump came down when he launched his first bid for the presidency back in 2016. how long ago does that seem now? his speech that day and the same spot was long on anger and division and he spoke of a failing america and described back then infamously mexican migrants as rapists, as speech setting the tone if you like of much of what would follow, and i think we might expect all of that to pale in insignificance compared to what we will see today and we have already heard that the donald trump campaign will double down on that narrative of victimhood and persecution, this claim is already being made throughout this trial that he is the victim of a orchestrated plot through the legal system, claims being made without evidence, but essentially all of its being used to set his pace up and to cast the election campaign now is a deep summer of the tickle grievance. i'm sure you are right with just about every word of that analysis, genre, and we have already seen him fund raising and describing himself as a political prisoner but image and ego is so important for donald trump and effectively it is part of his dna. aside from all the bluster that we are likely to see again today, this really cuts to the heart, he is now a convicted felon, isn't he? he heart, he is now a convicted felon, isn't he? , ., , heart, he is now a convicted felon, isn't he? , . , ., isn't he? he is, i mean, it is a hue isn't he? he is, i mean, it is a huge moment— isn't he? he is, i mean, it is a huge moment for— isn't he? he is, i mean, it is a huge moment for america - isn't he? he is, i mean, it is a| huge moment for america and isn't he? he is, i mean, it is a i huge moment for america and it isn't he? he is, i mean, it is a - huge moment for america and it is history making and there is no doubt the significance of it and it is all over the front pages of the papers and the tv networks as you would expect and you can't escape it. on the other hand, there is the strange sort of contrast which the polls that throughout this suggested many americans weren't paying that much attention and only 15% of those polled suggesting they were watching closely and that? that although undoubtedly this was significant and will have some kind of impact, we could be predicting what i could be because of course many mines were already made up and america didn't need 12 ordinary new yorkers to tell it what it thinks of donald trump, most know already, and the question is over those undecided voters in the middle and whether this will impact the decision they will make. huge scrutiny on that, and as you were saying in those last few sentences, i see from the reuters news agency, donald trump will deliver remarks on the middle east on friday and absolutely no doubt all those journalists will fire questions about all of this. is it a tricky position for the president whether to comment or not? i know the campaign team put out a statement today but is there any sort of dilemma therefore the president in terms of how he actually deals with this? i president in terms of how he actually deals with this? i think it is a question _ actually deals with this? i think it is a question of— actually deals with this? i think it is a question of nuanced - actually deals with this? i think it is a question of nuanced political| is a question of nuanced political strategy for the democrats and we know that throughout the trial, largely, they stayed in the background and given that mr trump a's whole strategy was to cast this is a white house orchestrated plot, it made sense forjoe biden in particular to be seen as letting justice take its course and whether this change now that his political opponent is a convicted felon with 34 opponent is a convicted felon with 31l counts against his name i think is something to watch. might it be just too tempting for the democrats now to try to exploit that? john sudworth there _ now to try to exploit that? john sudworth there in _ now to try to exploit that? john sudworth there in trump tower. thank you very much. we will return to you because as we have said before, we are expecting to see donald trump make another speech in about 45 minutes if that goes to plan that may slip a bit, but for now, thank you very much. plenty more on that story throughout this afternoon but let's now switch to focus on the general election for the next few minutes because we can get out and about on the campaign trail and the labour leader has been outlining the party's and that he plans today, including a promise to start creating green energy products within months but the greens say it doesn't go far enough. our correspondent is in west scotland and is more. correspondent is in west scotland and is more-— correspondent is in west scotland and is more. plenty of clear water when it comes — and is more. plenty of clear water when it comes to _ and is more. plenty of clear water when it comes to the _ and is more. plenty of clear water when it comes to the issue - and is more. plenty of clear water when it comes to the issue of - and is more. plenty of clear water i when it comes to the issue of energy between labour and the conservatives. this will already be where the policy differences come to light and labour are keen to make this a central plank of their election campaign and they are pledging to make a publicly owned energy company, headquartered in scotland, great british energy and they say that is something they will get going with it immediately because they say they need to reduce britain's reliance on oil and gas imports. to get ahead of the transition away from fossil fuels and that is what keir starmer wanted to talk about today here in scotland which is a key battleground for the labour party too but some critics including the green party think that labour is not going far enough when it comes to its environmental credentials and remember that decision to invest £28 billion a year in environmental policies which has been scaled back but they are accusing them of putting thousands of jobs at risk in the oil and gas sectors and have a listen to what keir starmer said today when he was challenged on that point. the worst thing we could do now is do what rishi sunak is doing and put our head in the sand and pretend it is not happening, and i_ will tell you why, that is what happened when coal was coming to an _ end and we are still paying the price in communities across the whole of scotland and the whole of united kingdom and i am not prepared to let that happen again under a future labour government. and we had that announcement the diane abbott will be allowed to stand in this general election, ending days of uncertainty. and i spoke to labour's shadow minister of employment about that announcement. diane is our nation's first black woman mp and nobody wanted a situation where she had to go through that disciplinary process because of a letter that was written in her name and issues of racism around that, so nobody wanted that situation. that process is completed and now we are getting to the stage where all of our candidates will be announced so these things happen in snap elections but whatever the case, diane is one of our country's trailblazers and i think everybody... you don't have to agree with her politically to think she has played an important role, hugely important, in our politics. you are right to say sometimes these things happen in politics but critics would say it is a weakness for sir keir starmer showing him to be leaden footed and we saw the same thing happen when labour ditched or changed your £28 billion commitment for green politics and it stretched out for days before we got the announcement. why is he not more nimble? forgive me if i am a bit sceptical about that because just a few years ago, the labour party suffered a dreadful defeat in 2019, and at that time, people said it would take us decades to recover from it and here we are. you are answering a different question. i asked you why he was so leaden footed when he had a decision to make. that is important. sorry, i though the question was, is sir keir starmer slow at doing things but when he is come to turning the labour party around, he has not been slow at it, and if it is whether our party is pioneering women mps, and particularly our first black woman mp in parliament, it has been dealt with and i want to see us move forward with our candidates and we have been waiting for this election for so long, it feels to me now, so let's just go on to it and change the country in a way i think a lot of people want to see. let's turn to policy because that clean power announcement by 2030 and we saw the details there. how expensive will that be? it will see significant investment in our energy supply, around 23 billion over the course of the next parliament year by year, because we need to change our energy supply and we know that our energy supply isn't secure enough and we rely on oil and gas which means relying on supply from countries like russia and we have seen the consequences of that. we need to meet the net zero challenge and that means massively increasing supply of energy that comes from onshore wind, solar and offshore wind and that is what the creation of gb energy will do. we hope that announcement about the investment in clean power and the desire to drive down energy bills but the snp and conservatives say labour's plans will cost thousands of jobs labour's plans will cost thousands ofjobs or who is right on the various claims and counter claims. nick only from bbc verify has been taking a look. nick only from bbc verify has been taking a look-— taking a look. labour has been talkinl taking a look. labour has been talking about _ taking a look. labour has been talking about great _ taking a look. labour has been talking about great british i taking a look. labour has been i talking about great british energy, a publicly owned power company they want to set up and they are claiming today that this will mean more energy bills and they also say under the conservatives prices would be higher, but are they right and where is the evidence? let's start with some context. we have all experienced the cost of living going up experienced the cost of living going up and energy bills were a huge part of it. this is what happened in the past couple of years, big increases in the cost of gas and that meant a big increases in bills. the government did subsidise them energy bills and as you can see here, the cost of gas has come down a lot recently, but what happens next was mike labour say their plan will bring bills down and they want to build more renewable energy and because renewable power is cheaper, they say it will save people money. this is the figure they put on it, £300 per year. but that figure requires a big switch to renewables and i asked labour how they arrived at that figure and they pointed out this study which says you would need 98% of electricity from clean sources, and that is a big increase. it would cost money for infrastructure and that is important. it would take a few years and you won't see that happen right away if labour win power. there is also at this claim and labour's press release today, saying the conservative plans will cost families money because at the moment of uk imports a lot of gas and that means rising international gas prices have more of an impact, and as you can see here, they say there is the threat of a £900 annual energy price spike under the conservatives but we think that this, down there, unlikely. labour is assuming the prices go up in the same way they did during the cost of living squeeze, that there is another massive shock and the energy market like when russia invaded ukraine. that is very uncertain indeed. the recent price rises have not been normal. either way, the conservatives also have a pledge to get more green energy to and if that happened, it would mean less reliance on gas imports and could also reduce prices, so bills could go down if his plan works, but some of the figures are uncertain, particularly when it comes to what labour say would happen if the conservative stayed in power. let's turn to what the conservatives have been saying. they want to punish fly—tippers by adding points to driving licences and evict disruptive tenants from social housing and rishi sunak is in the north west of england. our correspondentjess parker has been travelling with the conservative campaign team. travelling with the conservative campaign team-— travelling with the conservative campaign team. travelling with the conservative cam-lainteam. ., ., campaign team. good afternoon. i am on a farm in — campaign team. good afternoon. i am on a farm in north-west _ campaign team. good afternoon. i am on a farm in north-west england i campaign team. good afternoon. i am on a farm in north-west england in i on a farm in north—west england in cheshire and i want to introduce you to some of the local residents. these are some seven—week old lambs and they are getting ready to meet the prime minister. we understand rishi sunak may even be bottle—feeding them later. away from the lambs and to the politics, the conservatives have been announcing a crackdown on anti—social behaviour in social housing against a repeat offenders. people could be evicted. on fly—tipping, lower—level offenders could find points added to the drivers licence. here is the work and pensions secretary. locate the drivers licence. here is the work and pensions secretary. we will be a- -l inl work and pensions secretary. we will be applying a — work and pensions secretary. we will be applying a system _ work and pensions secretary. we will be applying a system whereby - work and pensions secretary. we will be applying a system whereby peoplej be applying a system whereby people can get _ be applying a system whereby people can get points on their driving licence — can get points on their driving licence if— can get points on their driving licence if they are found guilty of these _ licence if they are found guilty of these kind of offences. i think that's— these kind of offences. i think that's really important because almost — that's really important because almost all these offences use a vehicle — almost all these offences use a vehicle of— almost all these offences use a vehicle of some form and in many cases— vehicle of some form and in many cases getting additional points on your licence will mean losing your licence _ your licence will mean losing your licence altogether. this your licence will mean losing your licence altogether.— licence altogether. this policy would apply — licence altogether. this policy would apply to _ licence altogether. this policy would apply to england, i licence altogether. this policy i would apply to england, labour and the liberal democrats have been saying they think the conservatives record on these issues is woeful. rishi sunak has of course been crisscrossing the country during this campaign combined with some eye—catching policy announcements such as that on national service. but the conservatives may note it doesn't appear to have led to any sort of significant shift in the poles and ultimately that is the kind of cut through they will be looking for. ads, kind of cut through they will be looking for-— kind of cut through they will be lookinl for. ~ , ., ., ., ., , looking for. a short time ago i was s-leakin looking for. a short time ago i was speaking to _ looking for. a short time ago i was speaking to the — looking for. a short time ago i was speaking to the conservative i speaking to the conservative minister for women, speaking to the conservative ministerforwomen, mental speaking to the conservative ministerfor women, mental health and women's health strategy and we talked about a variety of issues but we started by talking about energy and she defended the government's record on energy.— and she defended the government's record on energy. energy production from renewables _ record on energy. energy production from renewables is _ record on energy. energy production from renewables is over _ record on energy. energy production from renewables is over 4096 - record on energy. energy production from renewables is over 4096 now i record on energy. energy production i from renewables is over 4096 now and from renewables is over 40% now and our energy— from renewables is over 40% now and our energy is— from renewables is over 40% now and our energy is supplied _ from renewables is over 40% now and our energy is supplied by— our energy is supplied by renewables. _ our energy is supplied by renewables. we - our energy is supplied by renewables. we have i our energy is supplied by renewables. we have big our energy is supplied by- renewables. we have big offshore wind farms — renewables. we have big offshore wind farms and _ renewables. we have big offshore wind farms and i _ renewables. we have big offshore wind farms and i have _ renewables. we have big offshore wind farms and i have one - renewables. we have big offshore wind farms and i have one in i renewables. we have big offshore wind farms and i have one in my. wind farms and i have one in my constituency _ wind farms and i have one in my constituency which _ wind farms and i have one in my constituency which is _ wind farms and i have one in my constituency which is providing i constituency which is providing electricity— constituency which is providing electricity for— constituency which is providing electricity for 350,000 - constituency which is providing| electricity for 350,000 homes. constituency which is providing i electricity for 350,000 homes. we are leading — electricity for 350,000 homes. we are leading the _ electricity for 350,000 homes. we are leading the way— electricity for 350,000 homes. we are leading the way are _ electricity for 350,000 homes. we are leading the way are nuclear- electricity for 350,000 homes. we| are leading the way are nuclear with our biggest — are leading the way are nuclear with our biggest expansion _ are leading the way are nuclear with our biggest expansion ever- are leading the way are nuclear with our biggest expansion ever because| our biggest expansion ever because when _ our biggest expansion ever because when labour— our biggest expansion ever because when labour were _ our biggest expansion ever because when labour were last _ our biggest expansion ever because when labour were last in _ our biggest expansion ever because i when labour were last in government they didn't _ when labour were last in government they didn't do — when labour were last in government they didn't do any _ when labour were last in government they didn't do any of _ when labour were last in government they didn't do any of that _ when labour were last in government they didn't do any of that hard - when labour were last in government they didn't do any of that hard work. they didn't do any of that hard work around _ they didn't do any of that hard work around the — they didn't do any of that hard work around the nuclear— they didn't do any of that hard work around the nuclear industry. - they didn't do any of that hard work around the nuclear industry. we i they didn't do any of that hard work. around the nuclear industry. we have 'ust around the nuclear industry. we have just announced — around the nuclear industry. we have just announced a _ around the nuclear industry. we have just announced a big _ around the nuclear industry. we have just announced a big new— around the nuclear industry. we have just announced a big new plant - around the nuclear industry. we have just announced a big new plant on i just announced a big new plant on angtesey— just announced a big new plant on angtesey for— just announced a big new plant on anglesey for example. _ just announced a big new plant on anglesey for example. it's - just announced a big new plant on anglesey for example. it's really. anglesey for example. it's really concerning — anglesey for example. it's really concerning that _ anglesey for example. it's really concerning that their— anglesey for example. it's really concerning that their plans - anglesey for example. it's really concerning that their plans are i anglesey for example. it's reallyl concerning that their plans are to switch _ concerning that their plans are to switch off— concerning that their plans are to switch off oil— concerning that their plans are to switch off oil and _ concerning that their plans are to switch off oil and gas _ concerning that their plans are to switch off oil and gas and - concerning that their plans are to switch off oil and gas and the i concerning that their plans are to| switch off oil and gas and the jobs that go— switch off oil and gas and the jobs that go with — switch off oil and gas and the jobs that go with that. _ switch off oil and gas and the jobs that go with that. and _ switch off oil and gas and the jobs that go with that. and not - switch off oil and gas and the jobs that go with that. and not doing i that go with that. and not doing this in— that go with that. and not doing this in a — that go with that. and not doing this in a practical— that go with that. and not doing this in a practical way— that go with that. and not doing this in a practical way could i that go with that. and not doing | this in a practical way could have an impact— this in a practical way could have an impact on— this in a practical way could have an impact on people's _ this in a practical way could have| an impact on people's household bills if— an impact on people's household bills if it's — an impact on people's household bills if it's not — an impact on people's household bills if it's not done _ an impact on people's household bills if it's not done properly. i bills if it's not done properly. their— bills if it's not done properly. their own _ bills if it's not done properly. their own energy— bills if it's not done properly. their own energy plan - bills if it's not done properly. their own energy plan has. bills if it's not done properly. their own energy plan has a. bills if it's not done properly. i their own energy plan has a {38.5 billion— their own energy plan has a {38.5 billion black— their own energy plan has a {38.5 billion black hole _ their own energy plan has a {38.5 billion black hole and _ their own energy plan has a {38.5 billion black hole and they - their own energy plan has a {38.5 billion black hole and they have i their own energy plan has a £38.5i billion black hole and they have not said where — billion black hole and they have not said where that _ billion black hole and they have not said where that money _ billion black hole and they have not said where that money is _ billion black hole and they have not said where that money is going i billion black hole and they have not said where that money is going to i said where that money is going to come _ said where that money is going to come from — said where that money is going to come from so— said where that money is going to come from. so if— said where that money is going to come from. so if people - said where that money is going to come from. so if people are - said where that money is going to i come from. so if people are thinking of having _ come from. so if people are thinking of having a _ come from. so if people are thinking of having a labour— come from. so if people are thinking of having a labour government - come from. so if people are thinking of having a labour government theyl of having a labour government they need to— of having a labour government they need to be — of having a labour government they need to be clear— of having a labour government they need to be clear what _ of having a labour government they need to be clear what this _ of having a labour government they need to be clear what this will- of having a labour government they need to be clear what this will costi need to be clear what this will cost them _ need to be clear what this will cost them. ., , ., , ., them. you trumpeted what you were doinl but them. you trumpeted what you were doing but isn't _ them. you trumpeted what you were doing but isn't the _ them. you trumpeted what you were doing but isn't the reality _ them. you trumpeted what you were doing but isn't the reality that i doing but isn't the reality that with the conservatives you push back your net zero targets, you give a new licences for fossil fuels, you are the party of rewind aren't you? absolutely not. we have met our carbon— absolutely not. we have met our carbon emission _ absolutely not. we have met our carbon emission reduction - absolutely not. we have met ouri carbon emission reduction targets but what — carbon emission reduction targets but what we — carbon emission reduction targets but what we felt _ carbon emission reduction targets but what we felt was _ carbon emission reduction targets but what we felt was it _ carbon emission reduction targets but what we felt was it wasn't i carbon emission reduction targets but what we felt was it wasn't fair| but what we felt was it wasn't fair on the _ but what we felt was it wasn't fair on the ordinary— but what we felt was it wasn't fair on the ordinary person _ but what we felt was it wasn't fair on the ordinary person and - but what we felt was it wasn't fair- on the ordinary person and household to have _ on the ordinary person and household to have to— on the ordinary person and household to have to pay— on the ordinary person and household to have to pay a — on the ordinary person and household to have to pay a significant— on the ordinary person and household to have to pay a significant amount i to have to pay a significant amount towards _ to have to pay a significant amount towards that — to have to pay a significant amount towards that in _ to have to pay a significant amount towards that in terms _ to have to pay a significant amount towards that in terms of— to have to pay a significant amount towards that in terms of things i to have to pay a significant amountj towards that in terms of things like changing _ towards that in terms of things like changing the — towards that in terms of things like changing the cars— towards that in terms of things like changing the cars to _ towards that in terms of things like changing the cars to go _ towards that in terms of things like changing the cars to go all - towards that in terms of things like changing the cars to go all electricl changing the cars to go all electric and to— changing the cars to go all electric and to ban— changing the cars to go all electric and to ban diesel— changing the cars to go all electric and to ban diesel and _ changing the cars to go all electric and to ban diesel and petrol- changing the cars to go all electric and to ban diesel and petrol cars. | and to ban diesel and petrol cars. we can— and to ban diesel and petrol cars. we can reduce _ and to ban diesel and petrol cars. we can reduce our— and to ban diesel and petrol cars. we can reduce our carbon - and to ban diesel and petrol cars. i we can reduce our carbon emissions and we _ we can reduce our carbon emissions and we are _ we can reduce our carbon emissions and we are doing _ we can reduce our carbon emissions and we are doing so. _ we can reduce our carbon emissions and we are doing so. we _ we can reduce our carbon emissions and we are doing so. we were - we can reduce our carbon emissions and we are doing so. we were one i we can reduce our carbon emissionsl and we are doing so. we were one of the first— and we are doing so. we were one of the first countries _ and we are doing so. we were one of the first countries ever _ and we are doing so. we were one of the first countries ever to _ and we are doing so. we were one of the first countries ever to announce i the first countries ever to announce our carbon— the first countries ever to announce our carbon emission _ the first countries ever to announce our carbon emission targets - the first countries ever to announce our carbon emission targets and i the first countries ever to announce our carbon emission targets and we are leading — our carbon emission targets and we are leading the _ our carbon emission targets and we are leading the way— our carbon emission targets and we are leading the way on _ our carbon emission targets and we are leading the way on that. - our carbon emission targets and we are leading the way on that. our. are leading the way on that. our renewables— are leading the way on that. our renewables are _ are leading the way on that. our renewables are now— are leading the way on that. our renewables are now producing i are leading the way on that. our. renewables are now producing 40% are leading the way on that. our- renewables are now producing 40% of our electricity— renewables are now producing 40% of our electricity in _ renewables are now producing 40% of our electricity in this _ renewables are now producing 40% of our electricity in this country - renewables are now producing 40% of our electricity in this country but i our electricity in this country but there _ our electricity in this country but there are — our electricity in this country but there are ways _ our electricity in this country but there are ways of— our electricity in this country but there are ways of doing - our electricity in this country but there are ways of doing it - our electricity in this country but there are ways of doing it that i there are ways of doing it that doesn't — there are ways of doing it that doesn't cost _ there are ways of doing it that doesn't cost the _ there are ways of doing it that doesn't cost the ordinary- there are ways of doing it that i doesn't cost the ordinary person a hi-h doesn't cost the ordinary person a high price — doesn't cost the ordinary person a high price for— doesn't cost the ordinary person a high price for doing _ doesn't cost the ordinary person a high price for doing so. _ doesn't cost the ordinary person a high price for doing so. labour's. high price for doing so. labour's plans, _ high price for doing so. labour's plans, they— high price for doing so. labour's plans, they can't _ high price for doing so. labour's plans, they can't fund _ high price for doing so. labour's plans, they can't fund them. i high price for doing so. labour'sj plans, they can't fund them. we high price for doing so. labour's plans, they can't fund them. we are nine da s plans, they can't fund them. we are nine days into _ plans, they can't fund them. we are nine days into this _ plans, they can't fund them. we are nine days into this campaign, i plans, they can't fund them. we are nine days into this campaign, you i nine days into this campaign, you had a blizzard of policy announcements, you look at the polls and they have not budged. have the public made up their minds? if you public made up their minds? if you look at the — public made up their minds? if you look at the local— public made up their minds? if you look at the local elections - public made up their minds? if you look at the local elections just i public made up their minds? if you look at the local elections just a i look at the local elections just a few weeks— look at the local elections just a few weeks ago— look at the local elections just a few weeks ago the _ look at the local elections just a few weeks ago the poles - look at the local elections just a few weeks ago the poles were i look at the local elections just a i few weeks ago the poles were very much _ few weeks ago the poles were very much out _ few weeks ago the poles were very much out and _ few weeks ago the poles were very much out and we _ few weeks ago the poles were very much out and we did _ few weeks ago the poles were very much out and we did well- few weeks ago the poles were very much out and we did well in- few weeks ago the poles were very much out and we did well in manyi much out and we did well in many places— much out and we did well in many places in— much out and we did well in many places in the _ much out and we did well in many places in the poles _ much out and we did well in many places in the poles were - much out and we did well in many places in the poles were much i places in the poles were much narrower _ places in the poles were much narrower-— narrower. the results were in kee . in . narrower. the results were in keeping with _ narrower. the results were in keeping with the _ narrower. the results were in keeping with the poles. i narrower. the results were in keeping with the poles. they| narrower. the results were in i keeping with the poles. they won't actuall . keeping with the poles. they won't actually- the _ keeping with the poles. they won't actually. the poles _ keeping with the poles. they won't actually. the poles have _ keeping with the poles. they won't actually. the poles have been i keeping with the poles. they won't i actually. the poles have been saying for a long _ actually. the poles have been saying for a long time — actually. the poles have been saying for a long time there _ actually. the poles have been saying for a long time there is _ actually. the poles have been saying for a long time there is a _ actually. the poles have been saying for a long time there is a 20 - actually. the poles have been saying for a long time there is a 20 point i for a long time there is a 20 point .ap for a long time there is a 20 point gap that— for a long time there is a 20 point gap that wasn't _ for a long time there is a 20 point gap that wasn't the _ for a long time there is a 20 point gap that wasn't the situation, i for a long time there is a 20 point gap that wasn't the situation, was much _ gap that wasn't the situation, was much closer _ gap that wasn't the situation, was much closer. an _ gap that wasn't the situation, was much closer. an elections - gap that wasn't the situation, was much closer. an elections like i much closer. an elections like police — much closer. an elections like police and _ much closer. an elections like police and crime _ much closer. an elections like i police and crime commissioners much closer. an elections like - police and crime commissioners we were 19 _ police and crime commissioners we were 19 out — police and crime commissioners we were 19 out of— police and crime commissioners we were 19 out of the _ police and crime commissioners we were 19 out of the 33. _ police and crime commissioners we were 19 out of the 33. what - police and crime commissioners we were 19 out of the 33. what i- police and crime commissioners we were 19 out of the 33. what i am i were 19 out of the 33. what i am hearing — were 19 out of the 33. what i am hearing on— were 19 out of the 33. what i am hearing on the _ were 19 out of the 33. what i am hearing on the doorstep - were 19 out of the 33. what i am hearing on the doorstep his i were 19 out of the 33. what i am i hearing on the doorstep his people are still— hearing on the doorstep his people are still making _ hearing on the doorstep his people are still making their— hearing on the doorstep his people are still making their mind - hearing on the doorstep his people are still making their mind up i hearing on the doorstep his people are still making their mind up but. are still making their mind up but theyare— are still making their mind up but they are fearful— are still making their mind up but they are fearful of _ are still making their mind up but they are fearful of having - are still making their mind up but they are fearful of having sir- are still making their mind up but they are fearful of having sir keir| they are fearful of having sir keir starmer— they are fearful of having sir keir starmer as— they are fearful of having sir keir starmer as prime _ they are fearful of having sir keir starmer as prime minister. - they are fearful of having sir keir starmer as prime minister. we l they are fearful of having sir keir. starmer as prime minister. we have seen the _ starmer as prime minister. we have seen the fiasco _ starmer as prime minister. we have seen the fiasco of _ starmer as prime minister. we have seen the fiasco of diane _ starmer as prime minister. we have seen the fiasco of diane abbott - starmer as prime minister. we have seen the fiasco of diane abbott over the test— seen the fiasco of diane abbott over the test few— seen the fiasco of diane abbott over the last few days. _ seen the fiasco of diane abbott over the last few days. if— seen the fiasco of diane abbott over the last few days. if you _ seen the fiasco of diane abbott over the last few days. if you can't - seen the fiasco of diane abbott over the last few days. if you can't even. the last few days. if you can't even manage _ the last few days. if you can't even manage his — the last few days. if you can't even manage his own— the last few days. if you can't even manage his own party how is - the last few days. if you can't even manage his own party how is going the last few days. if you can't even i manage his own party how is going to the country? — manage his own party how is going to the country?— the country? let's turn to the liberal democrats _ the country? let's turn to the liberal democrats because i the country? let's turn to the i liberal democrats because they the country? let's turn to the - liberal democrats because they are committing to the expansion of the free school meals for children across the country if they are elected. ed davey made the announcement during a visit to a school while campaigning in harpenden and he will continue his campaign in the south—west of london. our political correspondent has been following him on the liberal democrats camping this. ed liberal democrats camping this. en. davey has been doing extreme sports this week. his extreme sport today is baking with primary school kids on half term baking course. the lib dems on traditional geography and traditional political territory today. free school meals, their offer is to expand free school meals and they ultimately want to say they want to do that to all primary schoolchildren. ed davey gave us some more details. fiur schoolchildren. ed davey gave us some more details.— schoolchildren. ed davey gave us some more details. our priority is to uive a some more details. our priority is to give a free _ some more details. our priority is to give a free school _ some more details. our priority is to give a free school meals - some more details. our priority is to give a free school meals to - to give a free school meals to children — to give a free school meals to children in— to give a free school meals to children in poverty so we are proposing to raise the threshold of income _ proposing to raise the threshold of income up — proposing to raise the threshold of income up to £20,000, that would mean _ income up to £20,000, that would mean nearly a million children who are living _ mean nearly a million children who are living in — mean nearly a million children who are living in poverty would get a hot meat— are living in poverty would get a hot meal at everyday. i think that should _ hot meal at everyday. i think that should a — hot meal at everyday. i think that should a priority. it's a cost of living — should a priority. it's a cost of living crisis _ should a priority. it's a cost of living crisis.— should a priority. it's a cost of living crisis. they say this could be implemented _ living crisis. they say this could be implemented from - living crisis. they say this could be implemented from this - living crisis. they say this could be implemented from this year| living crisis. they say this could i be implemented from this year by putting a tax on big companies buying back their own shares and it's an idea copied from the us and they said that could be rolled out and that would mean children in primary and secondary schools in england. labouralready primary and secondary schools in england. labour already have that policy in wales. in london the labour mayor has it. at the liberal democrats think this is something they can offer that would distinguish them with the aspiration ultimately to offer it to all primary schoolchildren. sir ed davey has also been commenting on other things, he said on the issue of defections to from the conservatives, he said he was not talking about that, he was interested in talking to conservative voters who he thinks are defecting to the liberal democrats.— are defecting to the liberal democrats. ., , , democrats. the scottish first ministerjohn _ democrats. the scottish first ministerjohn sweeney - democrats. the scottish first ministerjohn sweeney has i democrats. the scottish first i ministerjohn sweeney has been ministerjohn sweeney has been campaigning in glasgow today and he spoke to the party faithful and called on the next government in westminster to commit to an emergency budget immediately following the election. he listed what he said a labour's economic similarities to the tories. our scotland correspondent has more. the snp scotland correspondent has more. the: snp leader scotland correspondent has more. t't;e: snp leader has scotland correspondent has more. tt9 snp leader has been campaigning in scotland's biggest city and came to a community centre in the east end of glasgow to set out his party's economic arguments. he told me earlier he could do business with whoever ends up becoming the next prime minister as long as they deliverfor prime minister as long as they deliver for the people of scotland and he said that would mean ending public spending cuts which as he put it had been inflicted on scotland by the conservatives and that he believed he said would continue if labour got into downing street. t am labour got into downing street. i am really worried — labour got into downing street. i am really worried that _ labour got into downing street. i am really worried that the labour government in order to establish its financial— government in order to establish its financial credibility are simply going — financial credibility are simply going to — financial credibility are simply going to say yes to prolonged austerity. as the first minister of scotland. — austerity. as the first minister of scotland, responsible for enhancing our health— scotland, responsible for enhancing our health and education services in scotland _ our health and education services in scotland which are my absolute priority. — scotland which are my absolute priority. i— scotland which are my absolute priority, i can't do that effectively if by budget is being constantly undermined and eroded by spending _ constantly undermined and eroded by spending cuts from london. john sweeney's _ spending cuts from london. john sweeney's message _ spending cuts from london. trim sweeney's message to voters is spending cuts from london. trrrt�*t sweeney's message to voters is that labour and the conservatives are hid from the same cloth when it comes to fiscal policy and he said that voters in this general election face a stark choice and he would argue that the snp is best placed to deliver the voters in scotland. let's talk in the studio because let's have a look at what's on the minds of younger voters in this general election campaign. with me is a newsweek reporter who has been talking to many young voters and potential voters. give me a flavour of the things they have been saying. the first thing to really understand is who these young voters are. we talk about young people and it's not a homogenous group of people. you are talking about 18 up to 2a to 25—year—olds. a lot of change happens in the period of your life and so this is a group of people that have studied through coronavirus lockdown, they have moved out of home and gone to university or get a job. that harnessed the issues most pressing on their minds. it's the cash in the pockets is a real big concern, the rate of prices rising. being able to think about getting a house whether thatis think about getting a house whether that is buying or renting a flat place to live. key issues that when you look at recent data they rank higher for that age you look at recent data they rank higherfor that age group you look at recent data they rank higher for that age group than for others. ~ . . . higher for that age group than for others. ~ . :,, i. higher for that age group than for others. ~ . , , higher for that age group than for others.: :, , , others. what was your sense when you had those conversations? _ others. what was your sense when you had those conversations? had - others. what was your sense when you had those conversations? had many i had those conversations? had many people made their minds up? t think people made their minds up? i think it's very fluid- _ people made their minds up? i think it's very fluid. that _ people made their minds up? i think it's very fluid. that is _ people made their minds up? i think it's very fluid. that is talking - people made their minds up? i think it's very fluid. that is talking of i it's very fluid. that is talking of the one week of an election campaign and at this point i get the sense it's very much looking at the issues they care about as opposed to politicians or parties. in lots of ways that is good because they are open to learning about stuff and there is a big want for information. they want to know more about it. we did a simple box, do you know there is a general election? not to be patronising, but to figure out which bits are grabbing and there is a want for information. i get texts saying can we have more political debate? , . :, :, . :, debate? they want more information, are the engaging _ debate? they want more information, are the engaging in — debate? they want more information, are the engaging in the _ debate? they want more information, are the engaging in the sorts - debate? they want more information, are the engaging in the sorts of- are the engaging in the sorts of campaign we havejust are the engaging in the sorts of campaign we have just been looking at? is that grabbing their attention?— at? is that grabbing their attention? : , :, :, attention? are they following cam ai . n attention? are they following campaign buses _ attention? are they following campaign buses around i attention? are they following campaign buses around the l attention? are they following - campaign buses around the country? i would say no. are they leaning in at particular points such as the conversation around the conservatives pledge a national service for example? yes, they will talk about those things. but when it comes back to initial base. on that they were some people who are thinking we have lived through a coronavirus lockdown and maybe it would help with some of our skills. others saying no i don't have time to be doing that because i need to be working part time alongside my studies have many and i don't want to be told what to do. so it is issue —based. 50 to be told what to do. so it is issue -based._ to be told what to do. so it is issue -based. so far, and i know it's only a _ issue -based. so far, and i know it's only a snapshot _ issue -based. so far, and i know it's only a snapshot you - issue -based. so far, and i know it's only a snapshot you are i issue -based. so far, and i know. it's only a snapshot you are giving us, do they feel the parties are actually talking to them? to quote one person. _ actually talking to them? to quote one person, none _ actually talking to them? to quote one person, none of— actually talking to them? to quote one person, none of them - actually talking to them? to quote j one person, none of them deserve actually talking to them? to quote i one person, none of them deserve my vote. to quote another, i don't know what to make of it because politicians say one thing and do another. there is work to be done and i think it's about digging into those key issues. for us as journalists to put that information out there as much as politicians. taste out there as much as politicians. we were talking about it a couple of days ago, the whole new way of campaigning, social media and all the things we see the parties dip their toe into, is that how they are consuming a lot of this? i think as with anything information will circulate on tiktok and instagram but there is a push to make sure people are doing their research and this is an intelligent group of people who are socially active and they want to know information, be it politics, be it the goings—on in the world, they will seek out information proactively, perhaps more proactively, perhaps more proactively than other groups. fascinating to talk to you. thank you very much. i want to turn to breaking news from france that is just coming in. it is linked to the olympic games because the french authorities are saying they have foiled a terror attack targeting the olympics this summer. some of the details are emerging. the attack apparently was aimed at saint etienne in the french interior ministry saying they had arrested an 18—year—old chechen national in saint etienne on suspicion of planning to carry out an islamist inspired attack on french soil. he has given more details, saying the event was planned during the football event taking place in that city as part of the olympics and they said the person arrested would have liked to have attacked the spectators but also the police and die a martyr�*s death. 50 a lot of detail in terms of what they have uncovered and the interior ministry saying it's the first foiled attack against the paris 2024 olympics and paralympics in the 50th attack prevented by our intelligence services since 2017. so just news coming in from france of a foiled terror attack targeting the olympic games in the summer. here we've had more details after that shocking case yesterday where a nine—year—old girl who is still in a critical condition in hospital after a shooting in north—east london. three men were also seriously injured in the attack with one of them potentially suffering life changing injuries. police said they were to crime scenes, one where the shooting took place and another where stolen motorbike was recovered. that investigation has been going on for more than 2041 was. james conway the detective chiefs superintendent of the met gave us an update. £311" the met gave us an update. our offices have _ the met gave us an update. our offices have now _ the met gave us an update. our offices have now established that the motorbike was previously stolen in 2021— the motorbike was previously stolen in 2021 from a property in wembley in 2021 from a property in wembley in london — in 2021 from a property in wembley in london. at the time of the shooting _ in london. at the time of the shooting the bike was displaying the registration plate d p 21 oh x y. we are releasing an image of the motorbike today and want to hear from _ motorbike today and want to hear from anyone who might recognise it. i am particularly keen to hear from you if— i am particularly keen to hear from you if you — i am particularly keen to hear from you if you saw it on the day of the incident — you if you saw it on the day of the incident 0r— you if you saw it on the day of the incident. or perhaps you recognise it from _ incident. or perhaps you recognise it from being packed up in a driveway— it from being packed up in a driveway or a specific location. or do you _ driveway or a specific location. or do you know someone who has been using _ do you know someone who has been using the _ do you know someone who has been using the bike at any point over the last three _ using the bike at any point over the last three years? and bear in mind it may— last three years? and bear in mind it may not — last three years? and bear in mind it may not have been displaying the same _ it may not have been displaying the same registration plates as those which _ same registration plates as those which i _ same registration plates as those which i released today. any information, no matter how big or small. _ information, no matter how big or small, could prove pivotal for this investigation. small, could prove pivotalfor this investigation.— investigation. that is the latest from the police _ investigation. that is the latest from the police and _ investigation. that is the latest from the police and our - from the police and our correspondent is also in east london. . :, : ,: , london. there are two crime scenes here in east — london. there are two crime scenes here in east london. _ london. there are two crime scenes here in east london. i _ london. there are two crime scenes here in east london. i am _ london. there are two crime scenes here in east london. i am five i here in east london. i am five minutes from kingsland high street where the incident took place on wednesday evening at 9:20pm. that is the focus for forensic officers who have a still taking photos and going over the scene in order to gather evidence. we are at the second crime scene which has now returned to normal. this is where the met police found that bike that they were able to provide us with more information about, saying it was a ducati motorbike, red and white, with the registration number, that was stolen backin registration number, that was stolen back in 2021. but we also found out some other information, particularly about the three men who were injured in the attack. it's been confirmed they are from the turkish and kurdish communities here in north and north—east london and are two of those men aged 44 and 42 are in a stable condition in hospital but one of them faces life changing injuries. a37—year—old man has been released from hospital. joining james conway at the press conference a few minutes ago was a turkish cypriot community leader and he was here to reach out to that community and ask anyone who knows any information regarding the incident to come forward and to help the police. he was very much saying that the community could hold the answers to this incident and to what happens here that is left for people with gunshot injuries. 50 lots more information emerging today but no arrests and very much a sense of awe information together. you arrests and very much a sense of awe information together.— information together. you are watchinu information together. you are watching bbc _ information together. you are watching bbc news. - information together. you are watching bbc news. if- information together. you are watching bbc news. if you i information together. you are i watching bbc news. if you havejust joined this, it's a good time to joined this, it's a good time to join us because we are not far away from donald trump speaking and responding to those extraordinary events in the courtroom last night. 34 guilty accounts and that is the microphone all set up. let me show you all the live pictures we have because this is a major event. just a different view of the same lobby in trump towers and you can see all the journalists waiting. the escalator, you will remember the first time donald trump said he was going to run for the presidency, he came down those escalators. so coming full circle in terms of some of the history. that is the shot from outside and just behind those barriers there are a group of donald trump supporters. that is the scene, there is the podium in donald trump yesterday when he came out of the courthouse talked about the disgrace of that conviction. but the jury bringing in 34th st guilty accounts, an extraordinary moment in us history. the first time either a former or sitting president has become a convicted of a crime. huge amounts of implications and reaction. we arejust amounts of implications and reaction. we are just in the first hours after those extraordinary events of yesterday and we will hear what the former president has to say and we will spend time talking to our various correspondence and guests to analyse what this actually means as donald trump continues with that bid the second term in the white house. 50 all of that, we think it's going to start at around 4pm, that could slip, but it gives you an idea. the scene is set and we wait now to hear and see donald trump. thousands of nhs cancer patients across england are going to be invited to take part in trials of new personalised vaccines in what has been described as a landmark moment in cancer treatment. the scheme, known as the cancer vaccine launch pad, will match nhs patients with suitable studies across the country. our medical editor fergus walsh has the story. elliot was diagnosed with bowel cancer last year and has already had surgery and chemotherapy. but tests show he still has fragments of cancerous dna in his blood, putting him at increased risk of his cancer coming back. so he signed up to a trial at birmingham's queen elizabeth hospital of a new type of treatment, a cancer vaccine. i feel excited, you know? i did a bit of research about the treatment trial itself. and if its successful, then it's a medical breakthrough. the time of reckoning! and this is the key moment when elliot receives his vaccine, tailor—made in germany by pharma company biontech to fight his cancer. he'll get up to 15 doses during the trial. so how does it work? elliot's personalised vaccine uses the same mrna technology as found in current covid jabs. a sample of elliot's tumour was analysed, and proteins unique to his cancer were identified. the mrna vaccine instructs his cells to produce these rogue proteins. the hope is this will stimulate elliot's immune system to recognise and kill any remaining traces of cancer. how are you? elliot is the first patient in the uk to get the bowel cancer vaccine. he's had only mild side effects but will be carefully monitored like more than 200 other participants in the international trial. i think it's really exciting. i think this is sort of a new era. the science behind this makes sense, this is one thing about this. my hope is that this will become standard of care. itjust makes sense that we can have something that can actually help in addition to help patients reduce their risk of cancer recurrence. there is huge anticipation about the potential of personalised vaccines to treat cancer, but it all depends on the outcome of trials like elliot's, with thousands more nhs patients across england expected to be recruited to similar studies targeting lung, breast and other tumour types. fergus walsh, bbc news. people in more than 600 homes in surrey have been warned not to drink the tap water after tests following a fuel leak. thames water said it was issuing the advice as a precaution. our reporter is at a water distribution centre in bramley. figs water distribution centre in bramley— water distribution centre in bramle. , bramley. as you can see, cars are steadily coming — bramley. as you can see, cars are steadily coming through. - bramley. as you can see, cars are steadily coming through. thames | steadily coming through. thames water employees are filling up the boots of those 600 households which have been told not to drink the water. they are filling up the boots because essentially they don't know how long this is going to go on for. some people are angry, others say they are extremely frustrated, they have been raising concerns for years about the quality of water. others tell me the stream in the centre of bramley smells like petrol. one woman has said to me that she doesn't think the advice has been clear enough. doesn't think the advice has been clear enough-— clear enough. there is a bit of confusion _ clear enough. there is a bit of confusion as _ clear enough. there is a bit of confusion as to _ clear enough. there is a bit of confusion as to whether i clear enough. there is a bit of confusion as to whether or i clear enough. there is a bit of| confusion as to whether or not clear enough. there is a bit of- confusion as to whether or not we can wash — confusion as to whether or not we can wash up — confusion as to whether or not we can wash up with it, can we use our dishwasher? — can wash up with it, can we use our dishwasher? i— can wash up with it, can we use our dishwasher? i initially thought it would _ dishwasher? i initially thought it would be — dishwasher? i initially thought it would be fine to with it but actually _ would be fine to with it but actually maybe we are not. you worry about _ actually maybe we are not. you worry about the _ actually maybe we are not. you worry about the long—term effects well of having _ about the long—term effects well of having had low levels of petrol no water _ having had low levels of petrol no water for — having had low levels of petrol no water for some years. it is worrying _ water for some years. it is worrying. i've had to put signs up over— worrying. i've had to put signs up over att— worrying. i've had to put signs up over all the — worrying. i've had to put signs up over all the taps, do not use. thames— over all the taps, do not use. thames water says this is a precautionary measure following concerning results of elevated levels of hydrocarbons which are found in petrol. it says this is linked to a leak at a nearby petrol station where works are being currently carried out to fix a water pipe there. those works are expected to last for around four weeks. taste to last for around four weeks. we will catch up with the weather details in a moment. i want to take you back to the pictures in new york because the scene is set up, the podium, because we are expecting to hear from podium, because we are expecting to hearfrom donald trump podium, because we are expecting to hear from donald trump after those 34 guilty accounts coming from that courtroom yesterday. he will give his latest remarks. he described that court case and the result is a disgrace yesterday. i am also looking at pictures from outside with supporters of donald trump and critics, so both sides of the road you have the split we of course the across white america. we are back live in new york injust a couple across white america. we are back live in new york in just a couple of moments after the weather. hello there. we are moving into a spell of much—needed drier weather. some sunshine around into the weekend. and high pressure is getting a bit closer to our shores settling things down. butjust around the edges of the high we have had a stronger northerly wind affecting some eastern parts of england. that has brought with it a lot of cloud, even a bit of rain as well. and pegged back the temperatures especially lincolnshire, east anglia and the south east of england. but further west and north where we are seeing some sunshine and cloud, temperatures are higher at 19 or 20 degrees. there is some more cloud coming into northern scotland which still could produce one or two spots of rain. the rain in the south east and east anglia it will move away quickly this evening. we will still keep some cloud for eastern areas. with clearer skies out towards the west. things will be a little chilly where we have the clearer skies, down to six or seven degrees first thing in the morning. heading into the weekend, a lot of dry weather around on saturday. there is more cloud coming into north east england which will push down into the midlands. it could just give one or two light showers. otherwise more sunshine, and a drier, warmer day in the south east and east anglia and lincolnshire. and more sunshine to come to scotland and northern ireland. temperatures reaching 20 degrees in the central belt of scotland. and a warmer 19 degrees in london and the south east of england. the area of high pressure is centred more towards the atlantic and that is allowing around the top of it more cloud to come in and a change of fortunes perhaps for sunday. we are seeing cloudier skies in northern ireland and scotland, maybe a little rain in the north west, that cloud comes into the far north of england. sunny spells in the south. with lighter winds in the south east, here it is going to be warmest of all, temperatures reaching a very pleasant 22 or 23 degrees. still quite warm for north east england and eastern scotland. in the north west where we have more cloud, temperatures are going to be a little bit lower. that cloud will push its way southwards overnight into monday. together with the front which is very weak. so again, little or no rain on it but we are seeing more cloud pushing southwards. sunnier skies following towards the north where temperatures will reach 17 or 18 degrees. even with more cloud in southern areas, temperatures could reach 20 degrees. the area of high pressure, though, that is getting squeezed away out into the atlantic, which is allowing north—westerly winds. stronger winds on tuesday. polar maritime air. even a touch of wintriness over the scottish mountains. whereas it is still 21 degrees in southern england. labour say would happen if the conservative stayed in power. live from london, this is bbc news. this is the scene live in new york where donald trump is about to speak in the next few minutes. we'll be there live. it comes after the former president was convicted on 34 counts of falsifying business records in an historic criminal trial. t records in an historic criminal trial. . . . ' ~ trial. i met nada tawfik live outside of _ trial. i met nada tawfik live outside of the _ trial. i met nada tawfik live outside of the trump i trial. i met nada tawfik live outside of the trump towerj trial. i met nada tawfik live i outside of the trump tower in trial. i met nada tawfik live - outside of the trump tower in new york where his critics and supporters have also turned up. —— i am not tawfik. —— i am nada supporters have also turned up. —— i am not tawfik. —— i am nada tawfik. hello and welcome to bbc news and let us focus on those events in new york and i will take you live to the podium in trump tower which is all set up because we expect to hear from donald trump in the next few moments and it's of course comes after those dramatic extraordinary moments we saw yesterday in that manhattan courtroom, where he was found guilty of all 34 counts and jurors standing up one by one and going through those counts, guilty on every count. these are the pictures from the lobby, the escalator you see there in the background, history coming full circle because he came down that escalator, you may remember, to announce he was going to stand for the candidacy to be the candidate to be the us president all those years ago and we are waiting to see donald trump after becoming a convicted felon, convicted by thatjury unanimously and lets me take you outside and show you the pictures there because outside of trump tower, we have seen, in the last little while, once that car gets out of the way, we have seen supporters and opponents of donald trump assembling either side of the street, a snapshot perhaps of the division that exists right across america. we saw critics with posters saying loser, seeing guilty, and we sort supporters of him supportive of the former president and let's bring in nada tawfik who was there yesterday watching as those guilty verdicts came in. welcome here to the programme, nada tawfik. i showed just some of the pictures as we wait for donald trump. just set the scene a little for us. you were there last night and you are there now. he was furious when he came out after those guilty verdicts. furious when he came out after those guilty verdicts-— guilty verdicts. absolutely, matthew. _ guilty verdicts. absolutely, matthew, and _ guilty verdicts. absolutely, matthew, and after - guilty verdicts. absolutely, matthew, and after those i guilty verdicts. absolutely, i matthew, and after those furious comments, donald trump made his way back uptown here to trump tower in gridlock traffic and went to a fundraiser and said he would be holding this press conference but quite literally, the scene we had in the courtroom has migrated here to trump tower and you can hear the noise behind me, and we have these displays, these trucks that were down by the courthouse for so many weeks now here at trump tower waving the make america great again science and we had the trump impersonator there if you didn't catch that and we had a number of donald trump's critics you have shown up at several of his trial is coming with signs saying guilty, so the same kind of passion and displays we saw at the courthouse now taking place here at trump tower and trump tower is so symbolic of donald trump's abolition, first from real estate developer to reality tv star and then to that unlikelihood many years ago that you mentioned to president, shocking the nation, and again, donald trump shocking the nation and becoming the first former president to be a convicted felon and he will speak to the press for the first time and we don't know if he will take questions but we know donald trump does not shy away from a chance to spark with the press and that will all unfold in trump tower behind me. just that will all unfold in trump tower behind me— that will all unfold in trump tower behind me. just like yesterday and virtually every _ behind me. just like yesterday and virtually every day _ behind me. just like yesterday and virtually every day of _ behind me. just like yesterday and virtually every day of the _ behind me. just like yesterday and virtually every day of the trial- virtually every day of the trial itself, we are bound to hear bluster from the former president but he is a convicted felon now. have we had confirmation from the defence team that he will definitely lodge this appeal? that he will definitely lodge this a- eal? . that he will definitely lodge this a- eal? , :, that he will definitely lodge this a . eal? , :, :, that he will definitely lodge this aueal? . :, :, , that he will definitely lodge this aueal? :, , appeal? yes, one of his lawyers, matthew. _ appeal? yes, one of his lawyers, matthew, said _ appeal? yes, one of his lawyers, matthew, said they _ appeal? yes, one of his lawyers, matthew, said they feel- appeal? yes, one of his lawyers, matthew, said they feel that i appeal? yes, one of his lawyers, i matthew, said they feel that every aspect of this case is ripe for appeal, so no doubt they are now going to be exploring and pulling at every thread that they can to prepare that but that is their plan and they will appeal this and donald trump has also signalled he wants to see his sentencing date pushed back. at the moment, the sentencing date is the 11th ofjuly and that is just days from him being crowned officially as the party's nomination at the republican convention. —— the party's nominee. but experts do say there are some potential grounds for appeal in this case and it will be a lengthy process and some republicans are suggesting they hope it reaches the supreme court, so unlikely for it to be wrapped before the november election but definitely for donald trump are's lawyers that is the name of the game now. t trump are's lawyers that is the name of the game now.— of the game now. i will cut across ou, of the game now. i will cut across you. nada — of the game now. i will cut across you, nada tawfik, _ of the game now. i will cut across you, nada tawfik, because i of the game now. i will cut across you, nada tawfik, because as i of the game now. i will cut acrossj you, nada tawfik, because as you come to the end of that sentence i can see donald trump approaching the microphones and he is about to grab a few notes so let's put the microphones up and hear from the former president. tt microphones up and hear from the former president.— former president. if they can do this to me. _ former president. if they can do this to me, they _ former president. if they can do this to me, they can _ former president. if they can do this to me, they can do - former president. if they can do this to me, they can do it i former president. if they can do this to me, they can do it to - this to me, they can do it to anyone _ this to me, they can do it to anyone. they are bad people and i believe _ anyone. they are bad people and i believe in — anyone. they are bad people and i believe in many cases they are sick people _ believe in many cases they are sick pe0ple and — believe in many cases they are sick people and if you look at our country _ people and if you look at our country and what is happening, millions— country and what is happening, millions and millions of people are flowing _ millions and millions of people are flowing in — millions and millions of people are flowing in from all parts of the world, — flowing in from all parts of the world, notjust from south flowing in from all parts of the world, not just from south america, from _ world, not just from south america, from africa, — world, not just from south america, from africa, from asia, from the middle _ from africa, from asia, from the middle east, they are coming in from 'ails middle east, they are coming in from jails and _ middle east, they are coming in from jails and prisons and coming in from menlal— jails and prisons and coming in from mental institution is an insane asylum — mental institution is an insane asylum is— mental institution is an insane asylum is and they are coming from all over— asylum is and they are coming from all over the — asylum is and they are coming from all over the world into the country and we _ all over the world into the country and we have a president and a group of fascisle— and we have a president and a group of fascists that don't want to do anything — of fascists that don't want to do anything about it because right now today, _ anything about it because right now today, he _ anything about it because right now today, he could stop it but he is not _ today, he could stop it but he is not they — today, he could stop it but he is not. they are destroying our countrv _ not. they are destroying our country. our country is in very bad shape _ country. our country is in very bad shape and — country. our country is in very bad shape and they are very much against me saying _ shape and they are very much against me saying these things. they want to raise your— me saying these things. they want to raise your taxes by four times, they want _ raise your taxes by four times, they want to— raise your taxes by four times, they want to stop — raise your taxes by four times, they want to stop you from having cars with a _ want to stop you from having cars with a ridiculous mandate that makes it impossible for you to get a car, afford _ it impossible for you to get a car, afford a _ it impossible for you to get a car, afford a car, _ it impossible for you to get a car, afford a car, make it a very possible _ afford a car, make it a very possible for china to build all our cars _ possible for china to build all our cars it _ possible for china to build all our cars it is — possible for china to build all our cars it is a — possible for china to build all our cars. it is a very serious problem that— cars. it is a very serious problem that we — cars. it is a very serious problem that we have. we just went through one of— that we have. we just went through one of many experiences where we had a conflicted _ one of many experiences where we had a conflicted judge, highly conflicted, there has never been a more _ conflicted, there has never been a more conflicted judge. now i am under— more conflicted judge. now i am under a — more conflicted judge. now i am under a gag order which nobody, no presidential candidate has ever been under— presidential candidate has ever been under a _ presidential candidate has ever been under a gag order before. i am under a nasty— under a gag order before. i am under a nasty gag _ under a gag order before. i am under a nasty gag order where i have had to pay— a nasty gag order where i have had to pay thousands of dollars in penalties and fines and was threatened withjail, think penalties and fines and was threatened with jail, think of it, penalties and fines and was threatened withjail, think of it, i and the — threatened withjail, think of it, i and the leading candidate, leading biden— and the leading candidate, leading biden by— and the leading candidate, leading biden by a lot and i am leading the republicans to the point where that is over _ republicans to the point where that is over so — republicans to the point where that is over so i — republicans to the point where that is over. so i am deleting leading person— is over. so i am deleting leading person for— is over. so i am deleting leading person for president and i am under a gag _ person for president and i am under a gag order— person for president and i am under a gag order by a man that can't put two sentences together, given by a court _ two sentences together, given by a court and _ two sentences together, given by a court and they are in total conjunction with the white house and department ofjustice so you understand, this is all done by biden— understand, this is all done by biden and _ understand, this is all done by biden and his people, be his people more _ biden and his people, be his people more importantly, i don't know if i didn't— more importantly, i don't know if i didn't know— more importantly, i don't know if i didn't know is too much about it because — didn't know is too much about it because i— didn't know is too much about it because i don't know if he knows much _ because i don't know if he knows much about anything but he is nevertheless the president so we have to _ nevertheless the president so we have to use his name and this is done _ have to use his name and this is done by— have to use his name and this is done by washington and nobody has ever seen— done by washington and nobody has ever seen anything like it. we have a judge _ ever seen anything like it. we have a judge she — ever seen anything like it. we have a judge she was highly conflicted and you — a judge she was highly conflicted and you know what the conflict and is, nobody — and you know what the conflict and is, nobody wants to write about it and in _ is, nobody wants to write about it and in not— is, nobody wants to write about it and i'm not allowed to talk about it and i'm not allowed to talk about it and they— and i'm not allowed to talk about it and they said i would be put injail so we _ and they said i would be put injail so we will— and they said i would be put injail so we will play that game a bit longer— so we will play that game a bit longer and won't talk about it for you are _ longer and won't talk about it for you are allowed to talk about it and i you are allowed to talk about it and i hope _ you are allowed to talk about it and i hope you — you are allowed to talk about it and i hope you do because there has never— i hope you do because there has never been anybody as conflicted as this. never been anybody as conflicted as this as _ never been anybody as conflicted as this~ as far— never been anybody as conflicted as this. as far as the trial itself, it was _ this. as far as the trial itself, it was very— this. as far as the trial itself, it was very unfairand this. as far as the trial itself, it was very unfair and we won't allowed to use _ was very unfair and we won't allowed to use our— was very unfair and we won't allowed to use our election expert under any circumstances and you saw what happened — circumstances and you saw what happened to some of the witnesses that were _ happened to some of the witnesses that were on our side. they were literally— that were on our side. they were literally crucified by this man who looks _ literally crucified by this man who looks like — literally crucified by this man who looks like an angel but he is really a devil _ looks like an angel but he is really a devil he — looks like an angel but he is really a devil. he looks so nice and soft and people — a devil. he looks so nice and soft and people say he looks like such a nice nran. — and people say he looks like such a nice man, but unless you saw him in action— nice man, but unless you saw him in action and _ nice man, but unless you saw him in action and you saw that with a certain— action and you saw that with a certain witness you went through hell, _ certain witness you went through hell. and — certain witness you went through hell, and when we wanted to do things. — hell, and when we wanted to do things. he — hell, and when we wanted to do things, he wanted to let others do those _ things, he wanted to let others do those things, but when the government wanted something, they .ot government wanted something, they got everything they wanted. it was a rigged _ got everything they wanted. it was a rigged trial and we wanted a venue change _ rigged trial and we wanted a venue change where we could have a fair trial, _ change where we could have a fair trial, we _ change where we could have a fair trial, we didn't get it. we wanted a judge _ trial, we didn't get it. we wanted a judge change, we wanted a judge that wasn't _ judge change, we wanted a judge that wasn't conflicted and obviously he didn't— wasn't conflicted and obviously he didn't do— wasn't conflicted and obviously he didn't do that. nobody has ever seen anything _ didn't do that. nobody has ever seen anything like it. we had a district attorney— anything like it. we had a district attorney who was a failed district attorney — attorney who was a failed district attorney and crime is rampant in new york, _ attorney and crime is rampant in new york, violent — attorney and crime is rampant in new york, violent crime, and that is really— york, violent crime, and that is really what _ york, violent crime, and that is really what he is supposed to be looking — really what he is supposed to be looking at — really what he is supposed to be looking at and crime is rampant in new york — looking at and crime is rampant in new york. you had yesterday in mcdonald's a man hitting him up with niachetes, _ mcdonald's a man hitting him up with machetes, whoever can imagine even a machete _ machetes, whoever can imagine even a machete being wilted in a store, in a place _ machete being wilted in a store, in a place where they are eating and he is going _ a place where they are eating and he is going rampant and bring us down watching _ is going rampant and bring us down watching a — is going rampant and bring us down watching a trial on what they call crinres~ — watching a trial on what they call crimes. they are falsifying business records, _ crimes. they are falsifying business records, that sound so bad, to me, it sounds— records, that sound so bad, to me, it sounds very — records, that sound so bad, to me, it sounds very bad and it is only a misdemeanour but it sounds so bad. when _ misdemeanour but it sounds so bad. when they— misdemeanour but it sounds so bad. when they say. eyeing business records, — when they say. eyeing business records, that is a bad thing for me, i records, that is a bad thing for me, i have _ records, that is a bad thing for me, i have never— records, that is a bad thing for me, i have never had that before, you know _ i have never had that before, you know what — i have never had that before, you know what falsifying business records — know what falsifying business records is in the first degree? they say falsifying business records, sound — say falsifying business records, sound so — say falsifying business records, sound so good, right? it means legal expense, _ sound so good, right? it means legal expense, i_ sound so good, right? it means legal expense, i paid a lawyer, totally legal, _ expense, i paid a lawyer, totally legal, i— expense, i paid a lawyer, totally legal, i paid a lawyer a legal expense _ legal, i paid a lawyer a legal expense and a book—keeper legal, i paid a lawyer a legal expense and a book— keeper without any knowledge from me correctly marked _ any knowledge from me correctly marked it — any knowledge from me correctly marked it down in the books, every professional woman, marked it down in the books, every professionalwoman, highly professional woman, highly respected, she professionalwoman, highly respected, she testified. she mucked it down— respected, she testified. she mucked it down in— respected, she testified. she mucked it down in the books as a legal expense — it down in the books as a legal expense or a legal expense, paid a lawyer, _ expense or a legal expense, paid a lawyer, is— expense or a legal expense, paid a lawyer, is a — expense or a legal expense, paid a lawyer, is a legal expense in the books _ lawyer, is a legal expense in the books it— lawyer, is a legal expense in the books it is— lawyer, is a legal expense in the books. it is not a sheetrock construction or any other thing. —— she marked — construction or any other thing. —— she marked it _ construction or any other thing. —— she marked it down. it is a legal expense, — she marked it down. it is a legal expense, think about that, this is the falsification of business records _ the falsification of business records and i said, what else are you going — records and i said, what else are you going to call it? now, i would have _ you going to call it? now, i would have testified and i wanted to testify— have testified and i wanted to testify and the theory is you've never— testify and the theory is you've never testify because as soon as you testified~~~ _ never testify because as soon as you testified... anyone, ever to a george — testified... anyone, ever to a george washington, don't testify because — george washington, don't testify because they would get you on something you said slightly wrong and see _ something you said slightly wrong and see you for perjury but i didn't care about — and see you for perjury but i didn't care about that and i wanted to. but the judge _ care about that and i wanted to. but the judge allowed them to go into everything i was ever involved and, not this— everything i was ever involved and, not this case, everything i was ever an involved — not this case, everything i was ever an involved in, which is a first because — an involved in, which is a first because you can go into every single thing _ because you can go into every single thing i_ because you can go into every single thing i ever— because you can go into every single thing i ever did, was he a bad boy here, _ thing i ever did, was he a bad boy here, was— thing i ever did, was he a bad boy here, was it — thing i ever did, was he a bad boy here, was it your bad boy there? and my lawyer— here, was it your bad boy there? and my lawyer said or you have to do is testify— my lawyer said or you have to do is testify simply on this case, because i testify simply on this case, because i would _ testify simply on this case, because i would have loved to have testified, to this day i would have loved _ testified, to this day i would have loved to— testified, to this day i would have loved to have testified but you would — loved to have testified but you would have said something out of whack _ would have said something out of whack like — would have said something out of whack like it was a beautiful sunny day and _ whack like it was a beautiful sunny day and it— whack like it was a beautiful sunny day and it was actually raining out and i_ day and it was actually raining out and i appreciated the crowd of people — and i appreciated the crowd of people outside and it is incredible what is _ people outside and it is incredible what is happening, the level of support— what is happening, the level of support is incredible. —— was he a bad boy— support is incredible. —— was he a bad boy there. so the whole thing was legal— bad boy there. so the whole thing was legal expense was marked as legal— was legal expense was marked as legal expense, think about it. this was the _ legal expense, think about it. this was the crime i am supposed to go to 'ail was the crime i am supposed to go to jail for— was the crime i am supposed to go to jail for 107 _ was the crime i am supposed to go to jail for 107 years four and when you have _ jail for 107 years four and when you have one _ jail for 107 years four and when you have one inscribed all over the city at levels _ have one inscribed all over the city at levels you have never seen before and you _ at levels you have never seen before and you have businesses leaving, and businesses _ and you have businesses leaving, and businesses are leaving because of this because heads of businesses say, man. — this because heads of businesses say, man, we don't want to get involved _ say, man, we don't want to get involved with that, and i can go through— involved with that, and i can go through the books of any business person— through the books of any business person in— through the books of any business person in the city and i could find things— person in the city and i could find things that — person in the city and i could find things that in very, i guess, let's indict _ things that in very, i guess, let's indict him. — things that in very, i guess, let's indict him, let's destroy his life, but i _ indict him, let's destroy his life, but i have — indict him, let's destroy his life, but i have out there and i don't mind _ but i have out there and i don't mind being out there because i'm doing _ mind being out there because i'm doing something for this country and i'm doing something for this country and l'm doing _ doing something for this country and i'm doing something for our constitution and it is very important, far beyond me, and this can't _ important, far beyond me, and this can't be _ important, far beyond me, and this can't be allowed to happen to other presidents, and it should never be allowed _ presidents, and it should never be allowed to— presidents, and it should never be allowed to happen in the future. this is— allowed to happen in the future. this is far— allowed to happen in the future. this is far beyond me, this is bigger— this is far beyond me, this is bigger than trump, this is far beyond me, this is biggerthan trump, biggerthan this is far beyond me, this is bigger than trump, bigger than me, bigger— bigger than trump, bigger than me, bigger than trump, bigger than me, bigger than my presidency and the people _ bigger than my presidency and the people understand it because ijust see a _ people understand it because ijust see a poll— people understand it because ijust see a polljust came out, the daily mail, _ see a polljust came out, the daily mail. the — see a polljust came out, the daily mail, the first one that came out and it— mail, the first one that came out and it was— mail, the first one that came out and it was done last night after the vote where — and it was done last night after the vote where i am up to six points, six points— vote where i am up to six points, six points from what we already were, _ six points from what we already were, we — six points from what we already were, we were leading fairly substantially and i'm up six points in the _ substantially and i'm up six points in the daily— substantially and i'm up six points in the daily mail poll and may be other— in the daily mail poll and may be other polls will come out and say something differently but a lot of people _ something differently but a lot of people have predicted it because the public— people have predicted it because the public understands and they understand what is going on. this is a scammer, — understand what is going on. this is a scammer, this is a rigged trial, it shouldn't — a scammer, this is a rigged trial, it shouldn't have been in that venue, — it shouldn't have been in that venue, we _ it shouldn't have been in that venue, we shouldn't have had that judge _ venue, we shouldn't have had that judge -- — venue, we shouldn't have had that judge. —— this is a scam. we had the best— judge. —— this is a scam. we had the best experts, — judge. —— this is a scam. we had the best experts, most respected expert, head of— best experts, most respected expert, head of the _ best experts, most respected expert, head of the federal elections committee he was all set to testify and waiting for two days and when it was his— and waiting for two days and when it was his turn, — and waiting for two days and when it was his turn, bragg's people protested and said he can't testify for anything happening to the trial and you _ for anything happening to the trial and you can say what the federal elections — and you can say what the federal elections is, but that doesn't help, everyone _ elections is, but that doesn't help, everyone knows that, but you can't testify— everyone knows that, but you can't testify so _ everyone knows that, but you can't testify so essentially he wasn't able to — testify so essentially he wasn't able to testify and other people were _ able to testify and other people were able to testify but with these people. _ were able to testify but with these people, they were able to use people salacious~ _ people, they were able to use people salacious. eitherway, nothing ever happened — salacious. eitherway, nothing ever happened. there was no anything, nothing _ happened. there was no anything, nothing ever happened, but they were as salacious _ nothing ever happened, but they were as salacious as they could be and it had nothing — as salacious as they could be and it had nothing to do with the case but it had _ had nothing to do with the case but it had to _ had nothing to do with the case but it had to do — had nothing to do with the case but it had to do with politics. do you notice _ it had to do with politics. do you notice the — it had to do with politics. do you notice the timing was perfect? this case was _ notice the timing was perfect? this case was dead, it was dropped by every— case was dead, it was dropped by every agency, every governmental board, _ every agency, every governmental board, it _ every agency, every governmental board, it was dropped by the highly respected _ board, it was dropped by the highly respected southern district and they said no, _ respected southern district and they said no, there is no case here, it was _ said no, there is no case here, it was dropped _ said no, there is no case here, it was dropped by federal election and this is— was dropped by federal election and this is about a federal election not a state _ this is about a federal election not a state election and you are not even _ a state election and you are not even allowed to look at it and they took the _ even allowed to look at it and they took the state and the city and went into a _ took the state and the city and went into a federal election and you are not allowed. the people from federal election. _ not allowed. the people from federal election, southern district and washington dropped the case and everybody dropped the case, there was no _ everybody dropped the case, there was no case. and when bragg came in, he said _ was no case. and when bragg came in, he said this _ was no case. and when bragg came in, he said this is — was no case. and when bragg came in, he said this is the most ridiculous case _ he said this is the most ridiculous case i_ he said this is the most ridiculous case i have — he said this is the most ridiculous case i have seen and you would have a certain _ case i have seen and you would have a certain person, again, gag order, he would _ a certain person, again, gag order, he would have a certain person like this testify? you said this is essentially one of the worst people i essentially one of the worst people i have _ essentially one of the worst people i have seen ever to testify. he said the craziest— i have seen ever to testify. he said the craziest case i have ever seen, this is— the craziest case i have ever seen, this is bragg. then when they announced i was running for president, long time later, they decided — president, long time later, they decided to revive this case. and they— decided to revive this case. and they got— decided to revive this case. and they got a — decided to revive this case. and they got a judge, judge one match and, they got a judge, judge one match and. he _ they got a judge, judge one match and, he was responsible for another case that— and, he was responsible for another case that was also brought that destroyed the life of a very good man: _ destroyed the life of a very good man, destroyed the life of a very good _ man, destroyed the life of a very good man— man, destroyed the life of a very good man who went to prison once and then they— good man who went to prison once and then theyjust put him in prison again— then theyjust put him in prison again because they said he lied. —— judge _ again because they said he lied. —— judge juan — again because they said he lied. —— judge juan merchan. he did not lie. i judge juan merchan. he did not lie. i looked _ judge juan merchan. he did not lie. i looked at — judge juan merchan. he did not lie. i looked at the statements he made, he didn't— i looked at the statements he made, he didn't remember something and they put— he didn't remember something and they put him injail and again, they have _ they put him injail and again, they have destroyed him and he was with me for— have destroyed him and he was with me for many years and he was an honourable — me for many years and he was an honourable person and an honest man and if— honourable person and an honest man and if you _ honourable person and an honest man and if you look at what he supposedly did, it never happened and there — supposedly did, it never happened and there has never been anything like this— and there has never been anything like this over the education of his grandchildren, he did not report that he — grandchildren, he did not report that he had a car or two cars on his income. _ that he had a car or two cars on his income. i_ that he had a car or two cars on his income, i don't know. i wonder how income, idon't know. i wonder how many— income, i don't know. i wonder how many people — income, i don't know. i wonder how many people have cars. i wonder how many— many people have cars. i wonder how many people have cars. i wonder how many people said, i'll, you have a car, _ many people said, i'll, you have a car, that— many people said, i'll, you have a car, that is— many people said, i'll, you have a car, that is worth so much. i guess you have to— car, that is worth so much. i guess you have to report it but i would say probably nobody does, nobody even thinks about it and they put this manner, they destroyed this man: _ this manner, they destroyed this man. but— this manner, they destroyed this man, but they put him injail again because _ man, but they put him injail again because they didn't want him to testify — because they didn't want him to testify. they did not want to testify — testify. they did not want to testify and that is why he went to 'ail, testify and that is why he went to jail. they— testify and that is why he went to jail, they put him injail twice and he is _ jail, they put him injail twice and he is 77 _ jail, they put him injail twice and he is 77 years old and normally i would _ he is 77 years old and normally i would say — he is 77 years old and normally i would say that is an old guy, but i don't _ would say that is an old guy, but i don't feel— would say that is an old guy, but i don't feel 77, nobody ever says that about— don't feel 77, nobody ever says that about me. — don't feel 77, nobody ever says that about me. i— don't feel 77, nobody ever says that about me, i would like them to say, we have _ about me, i would like them to say, we have to — about me, i would like them to say, we have to you have a little sorrow for this _ we have to you have a little sorrow for this man — we have to you have a little sorrow for this man because theyjust don't say that— for this man because theyjust don't say that about me, but maybe i am better— say that about me, but maybe i am better off _ say that about me, but maybe i am better off that way, i think i probably— better off that way, i think i probably am, but they put him in 'ail probably am, but they put him in jail twice — probably am, but they put him in jail twice and you have to see what they put _ jail twice and you have to see what they put him injail for, and he was frightened — they put him injail for, and he was frightened by the judge. this man was told. — frightened by the judge. this man was told, you will get 15 years in 'ail was told, you will get 15 years in jail if— was told, you will get 15 years in jail if you — was told, you will get 15 years in jail if you don't give up trump and he was _ jail if you don't give up trump and he was told — jail if you don't give up trump and he was told that, you will get 15 years _ he was told that, you will get 15 years in— he was told that, you will get 15 years injail, and he made a plea deal— years injail, and he made a plea deal because he didn't want to spend the rest _ deal because he didn't want to spend the rest of— deal because he didn't want to spend the rest of his life... and he was told _ the rest of his life... and he was told that— the rest of his life... and he was told that viciously. we are living in a fascist — told that viciously. we are living in a fascist state. he was told that viciously~ — in a fascist state. he was told that viciously. so, you can go to jail for four— viciously. so, you can go to jail for four months, five months or you can get— for four months, five months or you can get 15_ for four months, five months or you can get 15 years injail, so do a plea _ can get 15 years injail, so do a plea. almost he wouldn't do that plea? _ plea. almost he wouldn't do that plea? everyone does those pleas, it is a horrible — plea? everyone does those pleas, it is a horrible thing. there is a whole — is a horrible thing. there is a whole group of lawyers that fight that, _ whole group of lawyers that fight that, it _ whole group of lawyers that fight that, it is — whole group of lawyers that fight that, it is so unfair. but they destroyed _ that, it is so unfair. but they destroyed his life. so many other things _ destroyed his life. so many other things you — destroyed his life. so many other things. you look at southern districts— things. you look at southern districts didn't want to bring the case: _ districts didn't want to bring the case, nobody wanted to bring the case: _ case, nobody wanted to bring the case, and — case, nobody wanted to bring the case, and then you know who didn't want _ case, and then you know who didn't want to— case, and then you know who didn't want to bring the case most of all? bragg _ want to bring the case most of all? bragg. bragg didn't want to bring hit but _ bragg. bragg didn't want to bring hit but then he brought it and then they try— hit but then he brought it and then they try to— hit but then he brought it and then they try to make it a different case, — they try to make it a different case, they didn't say legal expense, again. _ case, they didn't say legal expense, again. if— case, they didn't say legal expense, again. if i_ case, they didn't say legal expense, again, if i wrote down and paid lawyer, — again, if i wrote down and paid lawyer, and again, this was a highly qualified _ lawyer, and again, this was a highly qualified lawyer and i can't use his name _ qualified lawyer and i can't use his name because of the gag order but he is a sleazebag and everybody knows that and _ is a sleazebag and everybody knows that and it _ is a sleazebag and everybody knows that and it took me to find out but she was— that and it took me to find out but she was effective he did work, but he wasn't — she was effective he did work, but he wasn't a — she was effective he did work, but he wasn't a fixture, he was a lawyer, — he wasn't a fixture, he was a lawyer, they like to use the word fixture, — lawyer, they like to use the word fixture, at — lawyer, they like to use the word fixture, at the time he was a highly accredited — fixture, at the time he was a highly accredited lawyer and he got into trouble _ accredited lawyer and he got into trouble not because of me but because — trouble not because of me but because he made outside deals and had something to do with taxi cabs and medallions and borrowed money, and medallions and borrowed money, and that— and medallions and borrowed money, and that is— and medallions and borrowed money, and that is why he went, and then he pled to _ and that is why he went, and then he pled to three election by violations and then— pled to three election by violations and then he played and he took a deal and — and then he played and he took a deal and he took a deal because he wanted _ deal and he took a deal because he wanted to— deal and he took a deal because he wanted to get off. in other words, i will take _ wanted to get off. in other words, i will take a — wanted to get off. in other words, i will take a plea deal and i want to .et will take a plea deal and i want to get off— will take a plea deal and i want to get off and he wanted to make a deal with the _ get off and he wanted to make a deal with the southern district and they wrote, _ with the southern district and they wrote, i_ with the southern district and they wrote, i think the worst report i had ever— wrote, i think the worst report i had ever seen on any human being other— had ever seen on any human being otherthan— had ever seen on any human being other than the report that was written — other than the report that was written onjames comi by other than the report that was written on james comi by the inspector— written on james comi by the inspector general, a very great inspector— inspector general, a very great inspector general, a very great inspector general, actually, wrote a report— inspector general, actually, wrote a report that — inspector general, actually, wrote a report that was so bad and this one was possibly worse. —— james comey. the seven— was possibly worse. —— james comey. the seven district, the judge did not let— the seven district, the judge did not let us— the seven district, the judge did not let us use it and said it was hearsay, — not let us use it and said it was hearsay, i_ not let us use it and said it was hearsay, i said it wasn't hearsay, this is— hearsay, i said it wasn't hearsay, this is about _ hearsay, i said it wasn't hearsay, this is about the man. —— these southern — this is about the man. —— these southern districts. but he got in trouble — southern districts. but he got in trouble for— southern districts. but he got in trouble for a simple reason, because it was— trouble for a simple reason, because it was involved with borrowing a lot of money _ it was involved with borrowing a lot of money and did something with the banks, _ of money and did something with the banks, i_ of money and did something with the banks, i don't know if he defrauded the banks, idon't know if he defrauded the banks— banks, i don't know if he defrauded the banks but something happened, you guys— the banks but something happened, you guys know what it is, and in addition — you guys know what it is, and in addition to— you guys know what it is, and in addition to that he gave up on three things— addition to that he gave up on three things where he wasn't guilty and there _ things where he wasn't guilty and there were going to testify on that, there were going to testify on that, the head _ there were going to testify on that, the head of the ftc, the election ekpert, _ the head of the ftc, the election expert, number one rated in the country— expert, number one rated in the country was going to testify and he took a _ country was going to testify and he took a plea on three things and it 'ust took a plea on three things and it just added — took a plea on three things and it just added them in because that gave him more _ just added them in because that gave him more bargaining powerwith respect — him more bargaining powerwith respect to— him more bargaining powerwith respect to me but the prepacked things— respect to me but the prepacked things he — respect to me but the prepacked things he played on having to do with the — things he played on having to do with the election and having to do essentially a little bit with me, they— essentially a little bit with me, they want crimes. correct like the three _ they want crimes. correct like the three things he played on. —— they weren't— three things he played on. —— they weren't crimes. nor was playing under— weren't crimes. nor was playing under the — weren't crimes. nor was playing underthe nda, so we had a nondisclosure agreement and that is a bl- nondisclosure agreement and that is a big deal— nondisclosure agreement and that is a big deal and that is totally honourable and good and accepted and everybody _ honourable and good and accepted and everybody has them, and every company — everybody has them, and every company has a nondisclosure agreement but the press called it slush _ agreement but the press called it slush fund and all sorts of other things — slush fund and all sorts of other things. hush money, hush money, it is not _ things. hush money, hush money, it is not hush _ things. hush money, hush money, it is not hush money, it is called a nondisclosure agreement and most of the people _ nondisclosure agreement and most of the people in this room have a nondisclosure agreement with their company _ nondisclosure agreement with their company. it is a disgrace. so, it is not hush _ company. it is a disgrace. so, it is not hush money, it is a nondisclosure agreement, totally le-al nondisclosure agreement, totally legal and totally common and everyone has one. and what happened is he signed _ everyone has one. and what happened is he signed a nondisclosure agreement with this person, i guess other— agreement with this person, i guess other people, but it was totally honest. — other people, but it was totally honest, you are allowed to make the payment _ honest, you are allowed to make the payment. you can make it any way you want, _ payment. you can make it any way you want. it _ payment. you can make it any way you want. it is— payment. you can make it any way you want. it is a _ payment. you can make it any way you want, it is a nondisclosure agreement. and he signed that and there _ agreement. and he signed that and there was— agreement. and he signed that and there was nothing wrong with signing at and _ there was nothing wrong with signing at and it— there was nothing wrong with signing at and it should have been a non-case _ at and it should have been a non—case and everyone said it was eight _ non—case and everyone said it was eight non—case including bragg, who said, eight non—case including bragg, who said. and _ eight non—case including bragg, who said, and till i run for office and then— said, and till i run for office and then i_ said, and till i run for office and then i read _ said, and till i run for office and then i read the polls and i was leading — then i read the polls and i was leading the republicans, the democrats, everybody and then all of a sudden _ democrats, everybody and then all of a sudden they brought it back and it is a very— a sudden they brought it back and it is a very sad — a sudden they brought it back and it is a very sad thing that is happening in our country and it is a thing _ happening in our country and it is a thing that— happening in our country and it is a thing that in— happening in our country and it is a thing that in a way i am honoured, it is not— thing that in a way i am honoured, it is not that — thing that in a way i am honoured, it is not that it is pleasant, it is very— it is not that it is pleasant, it is very bad — it is not that it is pleasant, it is very bad for— it is not that it is pleasant, it is very bad for family, it is very bad for friends — very bad for family, it is very bad for friends and businesses, but i am honoured _ for friends and businesses, but i am honoured to — for friends and businesses, but i am honoured to be involved in it because _ honoured to be involved in it because somebody has to do it and i might— because somebody has to do it and i might as _ because somebody has to do it and i might as well keep going and be the one but— might as well keep going and be the one but i_ might as well keep going and be the one but i am very honoured to be involved — one but i am very honoured to be involved because we are fighting for our constitution. the money that was paid was— our constitution. the money that was paid was paid legally. there was nothing — paid was paid legally. there was nothing illegal. in fact, the lawyer, _ nothing illegal. in fact, the lawyer, in creating the nda, because at that— lawyer, in creating the nda, because at that time — lawyer, in creating the nda, because at that time he was a fully accredited lawyer, he wasn't a fixture, — accredited lawyer, he wasn't a fixture, i— accredited lawyer, he wasn't a fixture, i never thought of him as a fixer _ fixture, i never thought of him as a fixer~ the _ fixture, i never thought of him as a fixer. the media called him a fixer or the _ fixer. the media called him a fixer or the prosecutor is a fixer but he was a _ or the prosecutor is a fixer but he was a lawyer and he was fairly good. later— was a lawyer and he was fairly good. later on _ was a lawyer and he was fairly good. later on i _ was a lawyer and he was fairly good. later on i didn't like what he did. for instance, i didn't like that when — for instance, i didn't like that when i — for instance, i didn't like that when i became president he went around _ when i became president he went around and made deals with companies. when i heard that, he was gone _ companies. when i heard that, he was gone he _ companies. when i heard that, he was gone he was — companies. when i heard that, he was gone. he was gone. and he had payments— gone. he was gone. and he had payments coming to him and a lot of this involved are things that are very simple. there was nothing wrong — very simple. there was nothing wrong. this will standard stuff, all standard _ wrong. this will standard stuff, all standard stuff. everything involved was standard and there was no crime here and _ was standard and there was no crime here and in— was standard and there was no crime here and in fact, ijust watched a couple _ here and in fact, ijust watched a couple of— here and in fact, ijust watched a couple of the reports and you watch andrew _ couple of the reports and you watch andrew mccarthy and greg jarryd, and you look— andrew mccarthy and greg jarryd, and you look at— andrew mccarthy and greg jarryd, and you look at all of these people, mark— you look at all of these people, mark levine, all very talented people. — mark levine, all very talented people, great people, many more, many— people, great people, many more, many more — people, great people, many more, many more. and they don't know me essentially, — many more. and they don't know me essentially, they don't know me, they are — essentially, they don't know me, they are legal scholars and experts. but i they are legal scholars and experts. but i look _ they are legal scholars and experts. but i look at them, and i watched early— but i look at them, and i watched early this— but i look at them, and i watched early this morning saying there is no crime — early this morning saying there is no crime here. everybody says there's — no crime here. everybody says there's no _ no crime here. everybody says there's no crime here, except for this da_ there's no crime here, except for this da which has the city out of control— this da which has the city out of control with crime. it is absolutely out of _ control with crime. it is absolutely out of control. so, we have an nda that was _ out of control. so, we have an nda that was signed and we have legal expenses— that was signed and we have legal expenses and here is the thing on legal— expenses and here is the thing on legal expenses. you have 100 where they say, _ legal expenses. you have 100 where they say, they do a charge, ijust recorded — they say, they do a charge, ijust recorded this out, falsification of business — recorded this out, falsification of business records in the first degree, _ business records in the first degree, it sounds so bad, i said, while! _ degree, it sounds so bad, i said, while! and — degree, it sounds so bad, i said, while! and even my own lawyers, i'm very upset— while! and even my own lawyers, i'm very upset with them because they don't _ very upset with them because they don't say— very upset with them because they don't say what it is. —— i said, wow! — don't say what it is. —— i said, wow! well, _ don't say what it is. —— i said, wow! well, falsification of legal records — wow! well, falsification of legal records is — wow! well, falsification of legal records is only a felony, well, that's— records is only a felony, well, that's a — records is only a felony, well, that's a lot, they say, only a misdemeanour but they try to bring it up to _ misdemeanour but they try to bring it up to a _ misdemeanour but they try to bring it up to a felony if it is to crimes and they— it up to a felony if it is to crimes and they have all these different things— and they have all these different things and the other thing is they missed _ things and the other thing is they missed the statute of limitations by adults— missed the statute of limitations by adults because this is very old and they could — adults because this is very old and they could have brought it seven years _ they could have brought it seven years ago — they could have brought it seven years ago rather than bringing it in the middle — years ago rather than bringing it in the middle of the election so they missed _ the middle of the election so they missed the statute of limitations and they— missed the statute of limitations and they did everything. let me give you the _ and they did everything. let me give you the good news. the good news is last night, _ you the good news. the good news is last night, we just got a report this morning, in the history of politics. — this morning, in the history of politics. i_ this morning, in the history of politics, i believe, maybe i'm wrong, — politics, i believe, maybe i'm wrong, somebody will find i'm wrong, maybe, _ wrong, somebody will find i'm wrong, maybe, but _ wrong, somebody will find i'm wrong, maybe, but i— wrong, somebody will find i'm wrong, maybe, but i don't think so, they raised _ maybe, but i don't think so, they raised with— maybe, but i don't think so, they raised with small money donors, meaning — raised with small money donors, meaning like $21, $42, $53, $38, a record— meaning like $21, $42, $53, $38, a record $39— meaning like $21, $42, $53, $38, a record $39 million in about a ten hour— record $39 million in about a ten hour period. applause think of it. i applause think of it. ~ applause thinkofit. ~' think of it. i like those people. because so _ think of it. i like those people. because so far, _ think of it. i like those people. because so far, i _ think of it. i like those people. because so far, i guess - think of it. i like those people. because so far, i guess it - think of it. i like those people. because so far, i guess it has i because so far, i guess it has backfired. _ because so far, i guess it has backfired, i don't know, i guess i'd backfired, idon't know, i guess i'd rather— backfired, idon't know, i guess i'd rather it— backfired, i don't know, i guess i'd rather it hadn't happened, i don't want _ rather it hadn't happened, i don't want it— rather it hadn't happened, i don't want it to — rather it hadn't happened, i don't want it to backfire, i'd point to when — want it to backfire, i'd point to when this— want it to backfire, i'd point to when this legitimately not because they were stupid and doing things they were stupid and doing things they shouldn't be doing. they were saying _ they shouldn't be doing. they were saying this — they shouldn't be doing. they were saying this morning that this was a case that— saying this morning that this was a case that should not have been brought — case that should not have been brought and i watched andrew mccarthy say, this was a case that should _ mccarthy say, this was a case that should not— mccarthy say, this was a case that should not have been brought and that was— should not have been brought and that was this morning but they all say that — that was this morning but they all say that. every legal scholar has said it. — say that. every legal scholar has said it. and _ say that. every legal scholar has said it, and these are great people, that really— said it, and these are great people, that really understand the law. the other— that really understand the law. the other thing, a polljust came out, the first— other thing, a polljust came out, the first poll, i don't know, maybe others _ the first poll, i don't know, maybe others will — the first poll, i don't know, maybe others will be bad, but a polljust came _ others will be bad, but a polljust came out— others will be bad, but a polljust came out a — others will be bad, but a polljust came out a little while ago, the daily— came out a little while ago, the daily mail, _ came out a little while ago, the daily mail, does anybody read the daily mail, does anybody read the daily mail? is very good, they have a good _ daily mail? is very good, they have a good poll. — daily mail? is very good, they have a good poll, at least i like it today — a good poll, at least i like it today. the daily mailjust came out with a _ today. the daily mailjust came out with a poll— today. the daily mailjust came out with a poll and it has trump up six points— with a poll and it has trump up six points in— with a poll and it has trump up six points in the — with a poll and it has trump up six points in the last 12 hours, six points— points in the last 12 hours, six points since this happened. you thought— points since this happened. you thought this could happen? applause —— who fought. the people of this country— —— who fought. the people of this country know it's a hoax and they .et country know it's a hoax and they get it. _ country know it's a hoax and they get it. and — country know it's a hoax and they get it, and they are really smart and it— get it, and they are really smart and it is— get it, and they are really smart and it is really something so we will be — and it is really something so we will be appealing this scam and we will be appealing this scam and we will be _ will be appealing this scam and we will be appealing this scam and we will be appealing it on many different things. he wouldn't allow us to— different things. he wouldn't allow us to have — different things. he wouldn't allow us to have witnesses, he wouldn't allow _ us to have witnesses, he wouldn't allow us _ us to have witnesses, he wouldn't allow us to— us to have witnesses, he wouldn't allow us to talk or do anything. —— thought~ _ allow us to talk or do anything. —— thought the _ allow us to talk or do anything. —— thought. the judge was a tyrant and you got— thought. the judge was a tyrant and you got to _ thought. the judge was a tyrant and you got to see that with bob costello, a fine man and i've never seen _ costello, a fine man and i've never seen anything like it where he demanded that courthouse be cleared and the _ demanded that courthouse be cleared and the good thing is most of the people _ and the good thing is most of the people in— and the good thing is most of the people in the courthouse where the media _ people in the courthouse where the media and — people in the courthouse where the media and anybody he was in the media _ media and anybody he was in the media if— media and anybody he was in the media if you are fair would say, that— media if you are fair would say, that was— media if you are fair would say, that was anger, he was crazed, and the reason — that was anger, he was crazed, and the reason that bob costello acted a bit upset, _ the reason that bob costello acted a bit upset, which i think he has a right— bit upset, which i think he has a right to, — bit upset, which i think he has a right to, was that every question he was being _ right to, was that every question he was being asked was being objected to by the _ was being asked was being objected to by the other side and sustained by the _ to by the other side and sustained by the judge. sustained, to by the other side and sustained by thejudge. sustained, sustained, sustained — by thejudge. sustained, sustained, sustained i— by thejudge. sustained, sustained, sustained. i don't know what the number, — sustained. i don't know what the number, but he did it many times and even!— number, but he did it many times and even ! was— number, but he did it many times and even i was sitting there and sayingm _ even i was sitting there and saying... and these were basic questions _ saying... and these were basic questions and i never saw anyone treated _ questions and i never saw anyone treated that way by a judge and i've been treated badly by two other judges — been treated badly by two other judges also because it is all the same _ judges also because it is all the same thing and it all comes out of the white — same thing and it all comes out of the white house and cricketerjoe biden, _ the white house and cricketerjoe biden, the worst president in the history— biden, the worst president in the history of— biden, the worst president in the history of our country. the most incompetent and the dumbest president we have ever had. —— crooked — president we have ever had. —— crooked joe _ president we have ever had. —— crooked joe biden. president we have ever had. —— crookedjoe biden. he is the dumbest, most incompetent and most dishonest _ dumbest, most incompetent and most dishonest president we have ever had and he _ dishonest president we have ever had and he is _ dishonest president we have ever had and he is a _ dishonest president we have ever had and he is a manchurian candidate and you take _ and he is a manchurian candidate and you take away i do look he treats china, _ you take away i do look he treats china, russia and so many others. —— you take _ china, russia and so many others. —— you take a _ china, russia and so many others. —— you take a look — china, russia and so many others. —— you take a look at the way he treats — you take a look at the way he treats i_ you take a look at the way he treats. i said the pipeline was dead and he _ treats. i said the pipeline was dead and he comes in and approves it. donald _ and he comes in and approves it. donald trump going around in terms of the sort of things he is saying so a good time to perhaps come away and very much a donald trump unfiltered, a combination of denial, bluster, a series of wild, inaccurate claims. one of them, for example, where he said several times he wasn't allowed to call witnesses. he was but his defence team chose not to call witnesses but he started by talking about bad people, sick people, then went on to talk about a conflicted judge and the gag order and talked about the trial being a very unfair in his words, all done by biden and his people, and talked again and again about a rigged trial and went after on many different occasions thejudge and went after on many different occasions the judge himself, incidentally, the man who will sentence him so that was interesting. and he spoke about paying his lawyer in a factory arguing the case and that was interesting because of course he had the chance to go into the witness box but chose not to do that. not to be cross examined. he then talked about america being a fascist state and he said somebody had to be the one to fight for the constitution and he confirmed what we all knew, that he would be appealing against yesterday's dramatic verdict. let's bring in our reporter who was listening to all of that. he railed against those guilty verdicts but those 12 jurors looked at six weeks of evidence and found him guilty on every count. fries. him guilty on every count. yes, that's right- _ him guilty on every count. yes, that's right. in _ him guilty on every count. yes, that's right. in a _ him guilty on every count. yes, that's right. in a stream - him guilty on every count. yes, that's right. in a stream of - that's right. in a stream of consciousness from donald trump, various trying to re—litigate this case. it's worth noting that many of the points he raised about wanting a venue change, wanting thejudge thrown off the case, all of these did go to higher courts which all agreed with thejudge's did go to higher courts which all agreed with the judge's original decision. and to the jury donald trump can say what he wants about this case in the public domain but those jurors, this case in the public domain but thosejurors, the this case in the public domain but those jurors, the seven this case in the public domain but thosejurors, the seven men this case in the public domain but those jurors, the seven men and five women of ordinary manhattanites, looked at the testimony and i think it's important to remember that when donald trump is asking the public to do is to believe him over everyone else who testified in that trial, along with the evidence that was presented. the e—mails, the tweet in which donald trump called it a reimbursement, that payment to michael cohen. an audio recording where he was heard discussing a different hush money payment with the former playboy model karen mcdougall. so it isjust the former playboy model karen mcdougall. so it is just not a convincing argument that he did not get a fair trial. ultimately the jury get a fair trial. ultimately the jury looked at everything and came to this unanimous verdict afterjust ii to this unanimous verdict afterjust 11 hours when they had to go through a very complex set of legal standards to apply when reaching a decision on those 34 counts. but it's so interesting to see donald trump on the day when he should be sharpening his political messaging is still focused on re—litigating this and one has to wonder how that's going to play with others who should he should be reaching out to a head of this election. he is trying to twist this verdict, trying to make himself out to be a victim. he's made the claim that this is bigger than him and his presidency, that he is fighting for the constitution, that is how he is trying to frame it. but you made the point that he could have testified. the burden was on the prosecution but donald trump saying he didn't want to testify because he thought given the advice from his lawyers and experts that wasn't a smart move to make. so instead he is trying to re—litigate the case out in the public in his press conference. you talk about framing because of course he dismissed as being hush money but there are many analysts who say actually the way this trial should have been described was simply election interference because what they were trying to do was make a story that would have damaged his 2016 bid go away. so there is plenty of analysis about how this is framed but tell me more about the timeline. he said towards the end he would appeal. just remind our viewers when we are expecting sentencing and when he is officially supposed to be endorsed as the republican candidate?— candidate? the 'udge set a sentencing _ candidate? the judge set a sentencing date _ candidate? the judge set a sentencing date of - candidate? the judge set a sentencing date ofjuly - candidate? the judge set a sentencing date ofjuly 11 i candidate? the judge set a l sentencing date ofjuly 11 and candidate? the judge set a - sentencing date ofjuly 11 and that is just days before he will officially be crowned as the republican nominee for his party at the convention. republicans in dc are still firmly with donald trump. as early as this morning they went on to the networks and on the social media saying now more than ever they want donald trump elected. so there is no reason why he will not go on to be the nominee for his party. but donald trump has said that he wants to see that sentencing day postponed. we will see whether he follows through with that request with the judge and how the judge responds but at the moment he could be here in new york learning if he will be sentenced to prison or not. a prison sentence many feel would be unlikely in this case given he is a first—time offender and it is a nonviolent crime, his age, the fact he is a president with a secret service detail. ultimately it is the judge's discretion what sentence donald trump should receive. what adjust the position that would be in the american political history. days before being sentenced and then taking the stage to throngs of supporters to be named as the party's nominee. his lawyers say they think there are many areas in this case and republicans throwing out the possibility of this reaching the supreme court, but it is worth noting that there are some legal questions that could be explored on appeal but all of that will take time and we will certainly reach the election before there is any resolution on those appeals. i resolution on those appeals. i suppose that is what he knows that is why he is trying to frame it the way he is. interesting we are seeing across the road his supporters out in force but also plenty of opponents carrying placards saying guilty and fell in. so you see a graphic split that exists across america. he referenced joe biden several times just america. he referenced joe biden several timesjust as he has america. he referenced joe biden several times just as he has over weeks saying this was all generated and driven by the biden administration. it's an interesting one because we saw a statement in the immediate aftermath of those verdicts from the biden campaign but it will be interesting when we hear from joe biden if he will talk on camera about this. it is slightly a dilemma for them, do they go for this or not?— dilemma for them, do they go for this or not? absolutely. especially when they want — this or not? absolutely. especially when they want to _ this or not? absolutely. especially when they want to keep _ this or not? absolutely. especially when they want to keep the - this or not? absolutely. especially when they want to keep the focus| this or not? absolutely. especially i when they want to keep the focus on abortion, protecting women's right to choose, that has been something thatis to choose, that has been something that is galvanised democrats and women across the country. president biden thinks that will help him. they want to focus on painting donald trump as a threat to democracy, going back to the january the 6th capital riot and how he handled his last election loss. no doubt they will be some democrats who are going to what to attach the phrase convicted felon to every advertisement and communication about donald trump. president biden has so far tried to not comment on this case except for a few digs in campaign material. it was interesting during the trial at the end we saw the actor robert de niro turn up after he had made an advert for the biden campaign and many asked why they chose to do that, given it could be seen as playing into donald trump's claims of election interference. but the campaign felt they were just not able to cut through with any of president biden plasma campaign because the coverage around the trial was around the clock and so they ultimately decided to go down to the trial itself to take advantage of the cameras and to make their point that they thought donald trump was the real threat to democracy. so no doubt democrats are going to be trying to navigate this, whether to let donald trump take the lead on his messaging and hope it hurts him in the long run or whether they want to lean into the fact it is a convicted felon that people are now fighting againstjoe biden on the ballot. i now fighting against joe biden on the ballot. ., , now fighting against joe biden on the ballot. . , ., . the ballot. i am 'ust watching the ictures the ballot. i am just watching the pictures because _ the ballot. i am just watching the pictures because of _ the ballot. i am just watching the pictures because of the _ the ballot. i am just watching the pictures because of the 40 - the ballot. i am just watching the i pictures because of the 40 straight minutes of donald trump talking at the microphone he has finished and he has walked away. we will see if he has walked away. we will see if he leaves trump towers. apologies for the pictures breaking up. there was a round of applause when donald trump was coming to the conclusion. quite often in a situation like this where it's so important and there are so many questions to answer we almost get ahead of ourselves and talking about appeals and everything that follows. just take stock because it's not even 24 hours since we had those guilty verdicts and an immediate sense of the sorts of things people around you, ordinary americans, are saying to you about it. ~ , americans, are saying to you about it. some americans pay high attention _ it. some americans pay high attention to _ it. some americans pay high attention to this _ it. some americans pay high attention to this case, - it. some americans pay high | attention to this case, others didn't and are fatigued by donald trump's legal troubles. when the actual verdict came down it was certainly such a defining moment in american politics and american history. a former colleague of mine pointed out that not far from where donald trump was convicted was where george washington was inaugurated as the first president at federal hall in lower manhattan. so for americans absorbing the fact convicted felon and former president and now one and the same and just how that has now denigrated the nation's highest office. the higher stream you can haveis office. the higher stream you can have is to be the president of the united states and suddenly we have seen many reflecting on what this means longer term and how much politics is going to change because of this. now that this president has been set. you already here republicans falling —— calling for retribution and investigations into democrats. so over the past few years certainly we have seen things grow more and more toxic in the political discourse and even in the public discourse, it so interesting to hear when families say they can barely discuss politics with their loved ones and family members. so you do take stock of what has happened in this moment and just where it's going to leave the country. where it's going to leave the count . , ., ., ., country. there is real damage because we — country. there is real damage because we had _ country. there is real damage because we had earlier - country. there is real damage because we had earlier about| country. there is real damage - because we had earlier about how donald trump was treated just like everyone else in the legal system but four months donald trump is as consistently talked about rigged elections and the department of justice and biden going after him and describing himself as a lyrical prisoner. that is hugely destructive to the key planks of how america works. ~ , ,., , , to the key planks of how america works. ~ , , ., . works. absolutely. this democratic s stem is works. absolutely. this democratic system is a — works. absolutely. this democratic system is a democracy _ works. absolutely. this democratic system is a democracy for - works. absolutely. this democratic system is a democracy for as - works. absolutely. this democratic system is a democracy for as long l works. absolutely. this democratic. system is a democracy for as long as you can keep it and for republican party it was interesting to see the likes of mitt romney commenting on those like the speaker mikejohnson who went down to the courthouse saying he was embarrassed in that moment that they were interfering in a matterfor the criminal moment that they were interfering in a matter for the criminaljustice system. we have seen in polling americans start to doubt the fairness of the courts in this country and i think certainly that has been a debate before donald trump but donald trump has really put that into overdrive. alvin bragg insisted that white—collar crimes such as the one he successfully prosecuted against donald trump where the core work of his office. so i think many debate the merits of the case before donald trump to say it was directed from president biden is abs to instantiate it. —— and substantiated. i is abs to instantiate it. -- and substantiated.— is abs to instantiate it. -- and substantiated. . , , , ., ,, substantiated. i have been speaking about the wider _ substantiated. i have been speaking about the wider implications - substantiated. i have been speaking about the wider implications of - about the wider implications of everything we have seen over the last 24 hours to brian stelzer, journalist and special correspondent at vanity fair. before we looked at those wider thought he just described to me what he thought as he was watching those guilty verdicts coming. irate he was watching those guilty verdicts coming.— he was watching those guilty verdicts coming. we know these charr es verdicts coming. we know these charges date — verdicts coming. we know these charges date back _ verdicts coming. we know these charges date back almost - verdicts coming. we know these charges date back almost a - verdicts coming. we know these i charges date back almost a decade and yet _ charges date back almost a decade and yet this was still a monumental surprise _ and yet this was still a monumental surprise to— and yet this was still a monumental surprise to so many americans. that is why— surprise to so many americans. that is why we _ surprise to so many americans. that is why we should ignore anyone confidently tells you what impact this is— confidently tells you what impact this is going to have, ignore those people _ this is going to have, ignore those people are — this is going to have, ignore those people are promising this is going to help _ people are promising this is going to help donald trump when re—election. we should also probably ignore _ re—election. we should also probably ignore the _ re—election. we should also probably ignore the democrats were dancing on his grave _ ignore the democrats were dancing on his grave already and claiming this is the _ his grave already and claiming this is the end — his grave already and claiming this is the end of him. there are a lot more _ is the end of him. there are a lot more nervous democrats out there than confident republicans. the impact — than confident republicans. the impact of— than confident republicans. the impact of this is totally unknowable. we are in a real and this was— unknowable. we are in a real and this was a — unknowable. we are in a real and this was a pretty boring rematch and a repeat— this was a pretty boring rematch and a repeat of— this was a pretty boring rematch and a repeat of the 2020 election but now this — a repeat of the 2020 election but now this is — a repeat of the 2020 election but now this is very different because of this— now this is very different because of this conviction and i say that because — of this conviction and i say that because i— of this conviction and i say that because i don't think this conviction was baked into the poles and voters — conviction was baked into the poles and voters minds. many americans were _ and voters minds. many americans were tuned — and voters minds. many americans were tuned out of this trial, they weren't— were tuned out of this trial, they weren't paying attention and they did not— weren't paying attention and they did not believe donald trump would be found _ did not believe donald trump would be found guilty. so the idea of this guilty— be found guilty. so the idea of this guilty verdict in this conviction creates— guilty verdict in this conviction creates this massive unknowable factor _ creates this massive unknowable factor for — creates this massive unknowable factor for the election.— factor for the election. there are so many issues _ factor for the election. there are so many issues to _ factor for the election. there are so many issues to talk _ factor for the election. there are so many issues to talk about. . factor for the election. there are l so many issues to talk about. let's rattle through what you have touched upon because we have seen over the years donald trump bend the rules, make up new norms. was yesterday just the us and the judicial system underlining that no one is above the law? ., , ., underlining that no one is above the law? . , ., ., underlining that no one is above the law? . , . ., ., law? that is what the federal agent sa s. its law? that is what the federal agent says- its liberty _ law? that is what the federal agent says. its liberty and _ law? that is what the federal agent says. its liberty and justice - law? that is what the federal agent says. its liberty and justice for - says. its liberty and justice for all. says. its liberty and justice for all and — says. its liberty and justice for all. and yet for all of his life he has been — all. and yet for all of his life he has been able to avoid this kind of criminal— has been able to avoid this kind of criminal moment. his companies have often _ criminal moment. his companies have often been _ criminal moment. his companies have often been accused of improper behaviour— often been accused of improper behaviour but have never been held accountable. so this is a moment that was— accountable. so this is a moment that was decades in the making for donald _ that was decades in the making for donald trump. that was part of his political— donald trump. that was part of his political brand, that he was able to be above _ political brand, that he was able to be above it— political brand, that he was able to be above it all and he was never able _ be above it all and he was never able to— be above it all and he was never able to be — be above it all and he was never able to be stopped. that is a big part of— able to be stopped. that is a big part of why he won in 2016. ever since _ part of why he won in 2016. ever since then— part of why he won in 2016. ever since then he has been losing. 2020 the republican he endorsed and win. and in— the republican he endorsed and win. and in some — the republican he endorsed and win. and in some ways this is the ultimate _ and in some ways this is the ultimate loss because it's so personal— ultimate loss because it's so personal and it could impact him in the most _ personal and it could impact him in the most personal of ways depending on what _ the most personal of ways depending on what happens at the sentencing. you look _ on what happens at the sentencing. you look at — on what happens at the sentencing. you look at the variety of legal jeopardy he faces and each time he has entered court he has lost. what happens now when it comes to sentencing and the options? roi]! sentencing and the options? roll into that the _ sentencing and the options? roll into that the impeachment and the disgrace _ into that the impeachment and the disgrace ofjanuary six. that losing streak— disgrace ofjanuary six. that losing streak in _ disgrace ofjanuary six. that losing streak in some ways makes his following — streak in some ways makes his following old him even closer. when it comes _ following old him even closer. when it comes to — following old him even closer. when it comes to sentencing the big question— it comes to sentencing the big question is will he encourages fans to swarm _ question is will he encourages fans to swarm lower manhattan and come to the courthouse? will he encourage a repeat _ the courthouse? will he encourage a repeat of— the courthouse? will he encourage a repeat ofjanuary the courthouse? will he encourage a repeat of january the the courthouse? will he encourage a repeat ofjanuary the 6th? my instinct — repeat ofjanuary the 6th? my instinct says no, he will be smarter than that — instinct says no, he will be smarter than that. but that is a real question— than that. but that is a real question and already some researchers are worried about the prospect — researchers are worried about the prospect of political violence as a result _ prospect of political violence as a result. ., ., . ., ., result. you touched on the impact on voters, result. you touched on the impact on voters. some — result. you touched on the impact on voters, some polling _ result. you touched on the impact on voters, some polling has _ result. you touched on the impact on voters, some polling has been - result. you touched on the impact on voters, some polling has been done l voters, some polling has been done in recent months across the board in america but also more specifically with trump voters and we saw that with trump voters and we saw that with nikki haley, there was a section of people voted for her in the primary is who we are quite clear if he was convicted they would not vote for him.— clear if he was convicted they would not vote for him. yes. that audience is now going — not vote for him. yes. that audience is now going to _ not vote for him. yes. that audience is now going to be — not vote for him. yes. that audience is now going to be key _ not vote for him. yes. that audience is now going to be key for— not vote for him. yes. that audience is now going to be key for president| is now going to be key for president biden _ is now going to be key for president biden can— is now going to be key for president biden. can he appeal to them directly? _ biden. can he appeal to them directly? it's a confusing story because — directly? it's a confusing story because there is a brand in america about— because there is a brand in america about laws— because there is a brand in america about laws and some trump voters are wanting _ about laws and some trump voters are wanting to _ about laws and some trump voters are wanting to be with the outlaw and there _ wanting to be with the outlaw and there is— wanting to be with the outlaw and there is also a sense of shame and embarrassment for america on the global— embarrassment for america on the global stage as a result of this verdict~ — global stage as a result of this verdict. all of those are true at the same — verdict. all of those are true at the same time. it's ultimately a very— the same time. it's ultimately a very emotional decision voters are making _ very emotional decision voters are making. some trying to hold trump tighter— making. some trying to hold trump tighter than ever and some finally letting _ tighter than ever and some finally letting go. tighter than ever and some finally lettinr ro. �* , tighter than ever and some finally lettinr ro. �*, tighter than ever and some finally lettinr co. 3 ., letting go. let's get back to new york and trump _ letting go. let's get back to new york and trump towers. - letting go. let's get back to new york and trump towers. our - letting go. let's get back to new - york and trump towers. our reporter is there and has been watching the events of the last hour. for any viewers who missed donald trump, just briefly encapsulated what he said given the events of last night. donald trump took to the stage with american flags on the background and said that this case was bigger than him, that this was about either americans. he felt this was about defending the constitution. but really he just spent 40 minutes re—litigating the case that he has been found guilty in. slamming the judge, slamming the process, slamming the witnesses, painting himself as the ultimate victim. so for donald trump to come out with this speech and not answer any questions was quite striking and one wonders how it will play out with the american public instead of focusing solely on messaging for the campaign he really did try to dwell on the past for quite some time. i on the past for quite some time. i was talking to brian about the critical part of all of this, it's not just the view of critical part of all of this, it's notjust the view of wider america but those swing states in november and the election and that group of voters who could perhaps go with donald trump or be disillusioned by everything they have seen play out. that is going to be hugely important in a tight race. that is going to be hugely important in a tight race-— in a tight race. absolutely. that is wh so in a tight race. absolutely. that is why so many _ in a tight race. absolutely. that is why so many people _ in a tight race. absolutely. that is why so many people say - in a tight race. absolutely. that is why so many people say there - in a tight race. absolutely. that is why so many people say there is l in a tight race. absolutely. that is i why so many people say there isjust why so many people say there is just no way to know how this is going to play out. if you can remember the presidential race this tight were quite frankly voters are not that enthusiastic about either candidate. so some real weaknesses in these two men, their ages, so some real weaknesses in these two men, theirages, but here so some real weaknesses in these two men, their ages, but here we have donald trump now having to contend with being a convicted felon and how americans feel about sending someone to the white house to represent them on the global stage as well with that type of record. donald trump has survived scandals before, he has been twice impeached and four times indicted, though we did lose the last election. but the point is, it doesn't matter if this is extremely catastrophic to him. nobody expects his base to abandon him. it's about losing a small sliver of those key independent voters in those swing states. we saw ahead of the trial and through the trial polling that suggested some independence would be uncomfortable with voting for him if he was convicted and we are now seeing some polling after the fact they asked independence if were more or less likely to vote for donald trump now and about 26% of independence said they would be less likely to vote for him, around 20% said more likely to vote for him. so everyone is going to be paying close attention to what those poll numbers show. but even with polling, ultimately the real test is going to be on november the 5th when the votes are in. let be on november the 5th when the votes are in— be on november the 5th when the votes are in. let me take you back to last night _ votes are in. let me take you back to last night because _ votes are in. let me take you back to last night because you - votes are in. let me take you back to last night because you were - to last night because you were outside the courthouse, you are watching and you saw the pictures from inside. his image, his ego, we know all about that, it is in his dna. did you get a sense of what it was like for him and for those family members in court when those verdicts landed? it family members in court when those verdicts landed?— verdicts landed? it was interesting because a few _ verdicts landed? it was interesting because a few of _ verdicts landed? it was interesting because a few of us _ verdicts landed? it was interesting because a few of us had _ verdicts landed? it was interesting because a few of us had noted - verdicts landed? it was interesting because a few of us had noted just how tired and defeated donald trump had been looking and sounding in the days right before the jury was going to be handed the verdict. even his son made a comment that he thinks there is undue pressure on the jury. then right before the judge was given the note that the jury had reached a verdict, it seems like they were going to end their day and go home and resume deliberations for the third day and donald trump was laughing and was in a good mood and wasjoking with his laughing and was in a good mood and was joking with his lawyers. then that instantly changed once he knew actually a verdict was in. the odds are in cases brought by the prosecution, they think they can win them, so when there is a swift verdict usually it is not in the defendant's favour so clearly donald trump and his lawyers perhaps were absorbing that and preparing themselves for that. donald trump was absolutely still when that verdict was read out. he tried to put on a brave face and push up his jaw and embrace his son but i think everyone understood the gravity of that moment. everyone understood the gravity of that moment-— everyone understood the gravity of that moment. thank you. i 'ust want to -la to that moment. thank you. i 'ust want to prey to viewers * that moment. thank you. i 'ust want to play to viewers watching- that moment. thank you. i just want to play to viewers watching and - to play to viewers watching and joining us, a federal prosecutor who spoke to me about the appeals and about the failed defence strategy we saw play out in the courtroom and he spoke to me about the moment those guilty verdicts came in. lip to spoke to me about the moment those guilty verdicts came in.— guilty verdicts came in. up to about two da s guilty verdicts came in. up to about two days prior _ guilty verdicts came in. up to about two days prior l _ guilty verdicts came in. up to about two days prior i had _ guilty verdicts came in. up to about two days prior i had said _ guilty verdicts came in. up to about two days prior i had said i _ guilty verdicts came in. up to about two days prior i had said i was - guilty verdicts came in. up to about two days prior i had said i was at. two days prior i had said i was at 50-50 _ two days prior i had said i was at 50-50 as — two days prior i had said i was at 50-50 as far— two days prior i had said i was at 50—50 as far as _ two days prior i had said i was at 50—50 as far as whether- two days prior i had said i was at 50—50 as far as whether they - two days prior i had said i was at. 50—50 as far as whether they would be convictions — 50—50 as far as whether they would be convictions or— 50—50 as far as whether they would be convictions or not. _ 50—50 as far as whether they would be convictions or not. that - 50—50 as far as whether they would be convictions or not. that last - 50—50 as far as whether they would be convictions or not. that last day| be convictions or not. that last day with the _ be convictions or not. that last day with the jury — be convictions or not. that last day with the jury instructions _ be convictions or not. that last day with the jury instructions were - with the jury instructions were introduced. _ with the jury instructions were introduced, the _ with the jury instructions were introduced, the judge - with the jury instructions were introduced, the judge gave . with the jury instructions werel introduced, the judge gave the with the jury instructions were - introduced, the judge gave the jury multiple _ introduced, the judge gave the jury multiple paths— introduced, the judge gave the jury multiple paths to _ introduced, the judge gave the jury multiple paths to convict _ introduced, the judge gave the jury multiple paths to convict donald i multiple paths to convict donald trump _ multiple paths to convict donald trump and — multiple paths to convict donald trump and obviously _ multiple paths to convict donald trump and obviously they- multiple paths to convict donald trump and obviously they took. multiple paths to convict donald i trump and obviously they took one multiple paths to convict donald - trump and obviously they took one of those _ trump and obviously they took one of those packs~ — trump and obviously they took one of those packs. once _ trump and obviously they took one of those packs. once they— trump and obviously they took one of those packs. once they did _ trump and obviously they took one of those packs. once they did for- trump and obviously they took one of those packs. once they did for the . those packs. once they did for the first charge — those packs. once they did for the first charge it _ those packs. once they did for the first charge it wasn't _ those packs. once they did for the first charge it wasn't surprising - first charge it wasn't surprising the other— first charge it wasn't surprising the other 33— first charge it wasn't surprising the other 33 went _ first charge it wasn't surprising the other 33 went the - first charge it wasn't surprising the other 33 went the same i first charge it wasn't surprising . the other 33 went the same way. first charge it wasn't surprising - the other 33 went the same way. they were all— the other 33 went the same way. they were all interconnected. _ the other 33 went the same way. they were all interconnected. yes - the other 33 went the same way. they were all interconnected. yes it's - the other 33 went the same way. they were all interconnected. yes it's a - were all interconnected. yes it's a shock _ were all interconnected. yes it's a shock people _ were all interconnected. yes it's a shock. people will— were all interconnected. yes it's a shock. people will debate - were all interconnected. yes it's a | shock. people will debate regulars -- vigorously— shock. people will debate regulars —— vigorously over— shock. people will debate regulars —— vigorously over the _ shock. people will debate regulars —— vigorously over the quality- shock. people will debate regulars —— vigorously over the quality of. —— vigorously over the quality of these _ —— vigorously over the quality of these charges _ —— vigorously over the quality of these charges and _ —— vigorously over the quality of these charges and the _ —— vigorously over the quality of these charges and the fairness i —— vigorously over the quality of. these charges and the fairness and of course _ these charges and the fairness and of course there _ these charges and the fairness and of course there is _ these charges and the fairness and of course there is an _ these charges and the fairness and of course there is an appeal- these charges and the fairness and i of course there is an appeal process that will— of course there is an appeal process that will review _ of course there is an appeal process that will review all _ of course there is an appeal process that will review all that. _ of course there is an appeal process that will review all that. i _ of course there is an appeal process that will review all that. i do - that will review all that. i do think— that will review all that. i do think it's _ that will review all that. i do think it's really _ that will review all that. i do think it's really important i that will review all that. i do| think it's really important for people — think it's really important for people regardless— think it's really important for people regardless of- think it's really important for people regardless of your. think it's really important for - people regardless of your political beliefs _ people regardless of your political beliefs to — people regardless of your political beliefs to remember— people regardless of your political beliefs to remember we _ people regardless of your political beliefs to remember we have - people regardless of your political beliefs to remember we have a i beliefs to remember we have a fantastic— beliefs to remember we have a fantastic low— beliefs to remember we have a fantastic low system _ beliefs to remember we have a fantastic low system and - beliefs to remember we have a fantastic low system and we i beliefs to remember we have a . fantastic low system and we have beliefs to remember we have a - fantastic low system and we have to respect _ fantastic low system and we have to respect it _ fantastic low system and we have to respect it and — fantastic low system and we have to respect it and remain _ fantastic low system and we have to respect it and remain peaceful- fantastic low system and we have to respect it and remain peaceful and i| respect it and remain peaceful and i do believe _ respect it and remain peaceful and i do believe that _ respect it and remain peaceful and i do believe that will— respect it and remain peaceful and i do believe that will prevail. - respect it and remain peaceful and i do believe that will prevail. we - do believe that will prevail. we might— do believe that will prevail. we might get— do believe that will prevail. we might get some _ do believe that will prevail. we might get some short—term - do believe that will prevail. we - might get some short—term flare—ups but i might get some short—term flare—ups but ! think— might get some short—term flare—ups but ! think in— might get some short—term flare—ups but i think in the _ might get some short—term flare—ups but i think in the long _ might get some short—term flare—ups but i think in the long run _ might get some short—term flare—ups but i think in the long run we - might get some short—term flare—ups but i think in the long run we will- but i think in the long run we will respect _ but i think in the long run we will respect this — but i think in the long run we will respect this and _ but i think in the long run we will respect this and move forward. l but i think in the long run we will- respect this and move forward. what do ou respect this and move forward. what do you think — respect this and move forward. what do you think the _ respect this and move forward. do you think the sentencing and the options actually are? most people rule out any sort ofjail time. what is your thought on that and you think there are grounds here for him to appeal? fin think there are grounds here for him to a- eal? , . to appeal? on the sentencing, ordinarily a — to appeal? on the sentencing, ordinarily a first-time - to appeal? on the sentencing, ordinarily a first-time offender to appeal? on the sentencing, i ordinarily a first-time offender of ordinarily a first—time offender of a nonviolent _ ordinarily a first—time offender of a nonviolent crime, _ ordinarily a first—time offender of a nonviolent crime, jail— ordinarily a first—time offender of a nonviolent crime, jail would - ordinarily a first—time offender of| a nonviolent crime, jail would not be on _ a nonviolent crime, jail would not be on the — a nonviolent crime, jail would not be on the table. _ a nonviolent crime, jail would not be on the table. in _ a nonviolent crime, jail would not be on the table. in this _ a nonviolent crime, jail would not be on the table. in this case - a nonviolent crime, jail would not i be on the table. in this case donald trump's _ be on the table. in this case donald trump's repeated _ be on the table. in this case donald trump's repeated violation - be on the table. in this case donald trump's repeated violation of- be on the table. in this case donald trump's repeated violation of the i trump's repeated violation of the -a- trump's repeated violation of the gag order— trump's repeated violation of the gag order as _ trump's repeated violation of the gag order as well— trump's repeated violation of the gag order as well as _ trump's repeated violation of the gag order as well as his - trump's repeated violation of the gag order as well as his very- trump's repeated violation of the i gag order as well as his very public lack of— gag order as well as his very public lack of any— gag order as well as his very public lack of any kind _ gag order as well as his very public lack of any kind of— gag order as well as his very public. lack of any kind of acknowledgement or remorse _ lack of any kind of acknowledgement or remorse that _ lack of any kind of acknowledgement or remorse that he's _ lack of any kind of acknowledgement or remorse that he's done _ lack of any kind of acknowledgement or remorse that he's done anything i or remorse that he's done anything wrong, _ or remorse that he's done anything wrong, that— or remorse that he's done anything wrong, that will— or remorse that he's done anything wrong, that will count _ or remorse that he's done anything wrong, that will count heavily- wrong, that will count heavily against — wrong, that will count heavily against him _ wrong, that will count heavily against him~ i_ wrong, that will count heavily against him. i personally- wrong, that will count heavilyi against him. i personally hope wrong, that will count heavily- against him. i personally hope we don't _ against him. i personally hope we don't go _ against him. i personally hope we don't go to— against him. i personally hope we don't go to jail— against him. i personally hope we don't go to jail time _ against him. i personally hope we don't go to jail time because - against him. i personally hope we don't go to jail time because i- don't go to jail time because i think— don't go to jail time because i think it — don't go to jail time because i think it would _ don't go to jail time because i think it would be _ don't go to jail time because i think it would be such - don't go to jail time because i think it would be such an - think it would be such an embarrassment - think it would be such ani embarrassment nationally think it would be such an - embarrassment nationally and i think it would be such an _ embarrassment nationally and i think you could _ embarrassment nationally and i think you could be — embarrassment nationally and i think you could be punished _ embarrassment nationally and i think you could be punished in _ embarrassment nationally and i think you could be punished in other- embarrassment nationally and i think you could be punished in other waysl you could be punished in other ways like on _ you could be punished in other ways like on home — you could be punished in other ways like on home confinement— you could be punished in other ways like on home confinement or other. like on home confinement or other kinds _ like on home confinement or other kinds of— like on home confinement or other kinds of probationary— like on home confinement or other kinds of probationary restrictions. i kinds of probationary restrictions. as far— kinds of probationary restrictions. as far as — kinds of probationary restrictions. as far as appealing, _ kinds of probationary restrictions. as far as appealing, yes - kinds of probationary restrictions. as far as appealing, yes there - kinds of probationary restrictions. as far as appealing, yes there are multiple — as far as appealing, yes there are multiple grounds _ as far as appealing, yes there are multiple grounds for— as far as appealing, yes there are multiple grounds for both - as far as appealing, yes there are multiple grounds for both the - as far as appealing, yes there are. multiple grounds for both the state and federal— multiple grounds for both the state and federal appeal. _ multiple grounds for both the state and federal appeal. there - multiple grounds for both the state and federal appeal. there are - and federal appeal. there are serious — and federal appeal. there are serious questions _ and federal appeal. there are serious questions about - and federal appeal. there are serious questions about this i and federal appeal. there are - serious questions about this case. it serious questions about this case. it was _ serious questions about this case. it was an— serious questions about this case. it was an unprecedented - serious questions about this case. it was an unprecedented case - serious questions about this case. it was an unprecedented case and| serious questions about this case. i it was an unprecedented case and it linked _ it was an unprecedented case and it linked state — it was an unprecedented case and it linked state and _ it was an unprecedented case and it linked state and federal— it was an unprecedented case and it linked state and federal campaign i linked state and federal campaign finance _ linked state and federal campaign finance laws — linked state and federal campaign finance laws and _ linked state and federal campaign finance laws and so _ linked state and federal campaign finance laws and so without - linked state and federal campaign. finance laws and so without getting into the _ finance laws and so without getting into the details _ finance laws and so without getting into the details that _ finance laws and so without getting into the details that was _ finance laws and so without getting into the details that was really - into the details that was really unprecedented. _ into the details that was really unprecedented. so— into the details that was really unprecedented. so i— into the details that was really unprecedented. so i would - into the details that was reallyj unprecedented. so i would not into the details that was really i unprecedented. so i would not be surprised — unprecedented. so i would not be surprised if— unprecedented. so i would not be surprised if the _ unprecedented. so i would not be surprised if the court _ unprecedented. so i would not be surprised if the court looks - surprised if the court looks critically— surprised if the court looks critically on _ surprised if the court looks critically on that _ surprised if the court looks critically on that on - surprised if the court looks| critically on that on appeal. surprised if the court looks - critically on that on appeal. that being _ critically on that on appeal. that being said — critically on that on appeal. that being said it— critically on that on appeal. that being said it will— critically on that on appeal. that being said it will be _ critically on that on appeal. that being said it will be sometime i critically on that on appeal. thati being said it will be sometime so critically on that on appeal. that - being said it will be sometime so we will be _ being said it will be sometime so we will be scratching _ being said it will be sometime so we will be scratching our— being said it will be sometime so we will be scratching our heads - being said it will be sometime so we will be scratching our heads for- will be scratching our heads for some _ will be scratching our heads for sometime _ will be scratching our heads for some time-— will be scratching our heads for some time. , , . , .. , some time. just a reminder because in this last hour— some time. just a reminder because in this last hour we _ some time. just a reminder because in this last hour we have _ some time. just a reminder because in this last hour we have seen - in this last hour we have seen donald trump reacting to those events of last night. he was there in trump toweragain events of last night. he was there in trump tower againjust events of last night. he was there in trump tower again just going through denial of the denial but going after the usual targets of the judge, going afterjoe biden, accusing the administration of a political prosecution and a series of claims within that and also almost trying to fight the case again but from trump tower rather than the witness box. he described the charges against him as a misdemeanour, he described how he had paid a lawyer, how it wasn't really a crime. he said there was no crime here. but again talking about the wider policy again and again talking about the conflicted nature of the judge and confirming he would appeal and that is bound to be part of what this appeal is likely to be, but the timeline for him is not convenient. july is when sentencing is going to be and within a couple of days of that he was supposed to be adopted by the republicans as their official presidential candidate. sojust a their official presidential candidate. so just a few of the main themes from what we heard from donald trump and you will get more analysis at the top of the hour. let me point you towards the bbc website because it has all the latest details from donald trump's press conference in new york. you are watching bbc news. welcome if you have justjoined us live from london this is bbc news. donald trump angrily attacks his opponents a day after being found guilty of falsifying business records. this is a scam, this _ falsifying business records. this is a scam, this is _ falsifying business records. this is a scam, this is a _ falsifying business records. this is a scam, this is a rigged _ falsifying business records. this is a scam, this is a rigged trial, - falsifying business records. this is a scam, this is a rigged trial, it i a scam, this is a rigged trial, it should not have been in that the venue, we should not have had the judge. he should have allowed us to have an election expert. we had the best. , ., ,., have an election expert. we had the best. , ., ., ., , best. these are some of the latest ictures best. these are some of the latest pictures live _ best. these are some of the latest pictures live from _ best. these are some of the latest pictures live from new— best. these are some of the latest pictures live from new york - best. these are some of the latest pictures live from new york and i pictures live from new york and across the street we have opponents and supporters as america remains split on donald trump. hello and welcome to bbc news. we will have plenty from the hello and welcome to bbc news. we will have plenty from the uk election trail here on the programme in the next little while, but we are jugghng in the next little while, but we are juggling those two huge stories, the general election and of course those extraordinary, extraordinary events we have seen in the last 24 hours from the us and new york, and of course we have heard from donald trump in the last hour. let us start there in new york, where we have been hearing from the former president, says he does plan to appeal against his criminal conviction. the former president was convicted on all of those 34 counts of falsifying business records over payments to the adult film star stormy daniels. the trial in new york was rigged, he isn't in the ring guilty. if you missed it, let's just remind you of some of what donald trump has said in the last hour. it donald trump has said in the last houn .h donald trump has said in the last hour. ., , ., ., donald trump has said in the last hour. ., ., . hour. it was a rigged trial. we wanted a _ hour. it was a rigged trial. we wanted a venue _ hour. it was a rigged trial. we wanted a venue change. - hour. it was a rigged trial. we l wanted a venue change. where hour. it was a rigged trial. we - wanted a venue change. where we could have a fair trial, we didn't get it. we wanted a judge change, he is convicted and obviously didn't do that. nobody has ever seen anything like it. we had a da who was a failed da, crime is rampant in new york. that is what he is supposed to be looking at. crime is rampant in new york. ., be looking at. crime is rampant in new york-— be looking at. crime is rampant in new york. ., , ., , new york. the former president has claimed he is _ new york. the former president has claimed he is under— new york. the former president has claimed he is under what _ new york. the former president has claimed he is under what he - new york. the former president has claimed he is under what he calls i claimed he is under what he calls nasty gag order, and again and again went after thejudge. nasty gag order, and again and again went after the judge. let's nasty gag order, and again and again went after thejudge. let's hit nasty gag order, and again and again went after the judge. let's hit a little more of what donald trump is saying. i’m little more of what donald trump is sa inr. �* ., ., ., . saying. i'm under a gag order, which nobody has — saying. i'm under a gag order, which nobody has ever— saying. i'm under a gag order, which nobody has ever been _ saying. i'm under a gag order, which nobody has ever been under. - nobody has ever been under. no presidential candidates have been under a gag order before. i'm under a nasty gag order, where i have had to pay thousands of dollars in penalties and fines. i was threatened with jail. think of it, i'm the leading candidate, i'm leading guided by a lot, and i'm leading guided by a lot, and i'm leading the republicans to the point where that is over. so i am the leading person for president, and i am under a gag order. by a man who can't put two sentences together. there he is, donald trump. let's go straight to washington, straight to our correspondent who was listening to all of that. your snapshot analysis of what we heard from donald trump after those guilty verdicts of yesterday? that donald trump after those guilty verdicts of yesterday?— verdicts of yesterday? that was about a 33 _ verdicts of yesterday? that was about a 33 minutes _ verdicts of yesterday? that was about a 33 minutes venting i verdicts of yesterday? that was i about a 33 minutes venting session. moore came to what donald trump does on his rally stage then any set pieces speech that the strategy the campaign would be interested in. there were no tenor prompt is, no notes. he was standing out there lashing out at the judge once again, at the verdict, criticising others he has been through over the past day, and really for the past six weeks at this trial. i'm not sure if it'll help him at all, but maybe it will help relieve some of the stress he has been under, and help soothe his psyche after what has been a trying 24 hours for him. i his psyche after what has been a trying 24 hours for him. i thought it was interesting _ trying 24 hours for him. i thought it was interesting that _ trying 24 hours for him. i thought it was interesting that he - trying 24 hours for him. i thought it was interesting that he tried i trying 24 hours for him. i thought it was interesting that he tried to | it was interesting that he tried to explain away the case when he had the opportunities to do exactly that in the witness stand. he the opportunities to do exactly that in the witness stand.— the opportunities to do exactly that in the witness stand. he went into a lot of details — in the witness stand. he went into a lot of details in _ in the witness stand. he went into a lot of details in the _ in the witness stand. he went into a lot of details in the case _ in the witness stand. he went into a lot of details in the case but - in the witness stand. he went into a lot of details in the case but did i lot of details in the case but did so in a way that if the member of the general public you haven't been following the case that way that we have another twist, a witness of the prosecution, the defence, i don't think they would find it all that is accessible. you have to bring a certain amount of knowledge into that to understand the point that donald trump is trying to make when he was lashing out at michael cohen who testified for prosecution, but not doing so by name because of the 939 not doing so by name because of the gag order, but implying that he had holes in what he was saying during his testimony, and talking about the prosecution, wanting to bring in they couldn't, and the one they did. this will fly over the head of the general public. again, i think this was maybe a release for donald trump to get up there in front of the cameras and lash out, what he didn't have the chance to do so in quite a free—form way during the trial, but the long—term effectiveness of this, i think that is highly doubtful. let's talk about the long—term effect. we wait to see any early snapshot pulling in terms of whether this shifts the dial with a certain sector of voters, but in terms of the timeline, just remind viewers of the timeline, just remind viewers of the timeline, just remind viewers of the timeline of sentencing, the likely timeline on appeal, when we are actually expected to see donald trump formally accepted as the republic nominee for november... it's going to be a pretty busy summer. it's scheduled for the 11th ofjuly, the republican convention is scheduled to start four days later on the 15th. his sentencing hearing, where he might find out if hearing, where he might find out if he has a prison sentence, to appearing on the stage accepting the republican nomination in less than a week. we have a debate between donald trump and joe biden at the end ofjune as well. the democratic convention is of course in august, the following month. it's a very tightly spaced political calendar, and i think we would see donald trump come out once you get that sentences on the 11th, then his lawyers would be able to in the next 30 days, file an appeal that would move through the new york state court system. this is a newark state conviction. that all could drag on for months, if not years. just before you — for months, if not years. just before you leave _ for months, if not years. just before you leave us, - for months, if not years. just before you leave us, let i for months, if not years. just before you leave us, let me tell you. we've had the first response from joe biden on x, saying donald trump is threatening our democracy for the first he questioned our election system, then the judicial system, and now you can stop him. there has been plenty of reflection about whether, given the charge, this is all coming from joe biden, whether he would actually venture into this. clearly, certainly a social media, he immediately has decided, well actually, we will respond to what we have actually seen played out? it’s respond to what we have actually seen played out?— respond to what we have actually seen played out? it's interesting he is talkin: seen played out? it's interesting he is talking about _ seen played out? it's interesting he is talking about the _ seen played out? it's interesting he is talking about the way _ seen played out? it's interesting he is talking about the way he - seen played out? it's interesting he is talking about the way he handled| is talking about the way he handled the verdict, not the verdict itself. i'm trying to draw a line from january six, a threat to democracy, which is something joe biden has been talking about now four years. draw that line from january six, and the challenges to his election in 2020, and going forward. joe biden and the democrats realise this will all really be settled an event at the ballot box, and that is how we will determine donald trump's ultimate fate.— will determine donald trump's ultimate fate. . �* ., ., ultimate fate. we've got and i was screen the — ultimate fate. we've got and i was screen the or _ ultimate fate. we've got and i was screen the qr code, _ ultimate fate. we've got and i was screen the qr code, you - ultimate fate. we've got and i was screen the qr code, you will i ultimate fate. we've got and i was screen the qr code, you will be i screen the qr code, you will be hosting that. do, if you want to, an extended analysis, just click onto the qr code. let's cut straight back to new york, to the political director with cbs news. there he is in the lobby. finn, what was that like just being there, watching what anthonyjust like just being there, watching what anthony just described like just being there, watching what anthonyjust described is venting for 35 minutes? it anthony just described is venting for 35 minutes?— anthony just described is venting for 35 minutes? it was basically a lot of grievances _ for 35 minutes? it was basically a lot of grievances the _ for 35 minutes? it was basically a lot of grievances the former i lot of grievances the former president has towards the whole legal process to us salt of the commission yesterday. it was about 40 minutes, wide—ranging, some as a but we were also expecting him to take questions from the past but he did not. there was a massive press imprint here in the lobby of trump tower. but there was local press, and unfortunately he didn't take any questions. it is and unfortunately he didn't take any ruestions. , , ., , and unfortunately he didn't take any ruestions. , , . , , questions. it is very early days, but this is _ questions. it is very early days, but this is bound _ questions. it is very early days, but this is bound to _ questions. it is very early days, but this is bound to have i questions. it is very early days, but this is bound to have an i questions. it is very early days, i but this is bound to have an impact in terms of what lies ahead in november. what sense are you getting in the immediate aftermath about how americans are responding? in the americans are responding? in the immediate aftermath, _ americans are responding? in the immediate aftermath, i _ americans are responding? in the immediate aftermath, i think- americans are responding? in the | immediate aftermath, i think what we're seeing is a couple of things. one is that that tramp base, that mag base is being boosted, if you will. they are, you see is outside in the street right now, there are big crowds. they feel empowered, they feel angry about the results. they feel like they aren't buying into the narrative, saying it was political progress behind investigation. they are also claiming that they have raised upward of $34 million since conviction. they said just this morning, spins of the campaign, about how much they were going to give. in the democratic side, where did mention that the president, preston biden, did put i don't street. he also alleged that sweet statement to his own fundraising policy, mechanism, to both of these candidates are fundraising off of this. they know that their bases, that the democratic side of that finally have a justified result, for someone who has been convicted now of criminal charges. so i think they both feel they can't take advantage of the situation, raise some funds and also start recovering in their base to get out to activate, ready for the number that for selection. here's the thing. many analysts so this is the weakest of the big four cases that he and been indicted on, yet we saw the city for guilty counts, but it is probably the only one we are going to get to see this side of the election, isn't it? right. and in speaking to both senior members of the trap campaign, talking two fishes with the biden campaign, that is the consensus, the belief. this will really be the only trial we do seek prior to that novemberfor trial we do seek prior to that november for selection. of course, as you mentioned, there are two big conventions coming up. the nominator conventions, and of course onjuly ii, conventions, and of course onjuly 11, we have the sentencing for the former president. it is unlikely that he would get prison time, but there is perhaps... if anything is to bind this trial, it is a certain level of things that are unpredictable, we are in uncharted waters. you have thatjuly 11 date, the sentencing. the former president could, a small chance, go over to prison, cis and jailtime, however the likelihood is that he likely will get heavy fines, something along those lines. then afterjuly ii, along those lines. then afterjuly 11, that is four days until the republican national convention in milwaukee. there is a sense that, if you've never been here before, the former president said that he is going to appeal this, of course. he confirmed that he is going to appeal all 34 counts. he is right, and forgive me for going on, but he is right on one thing. the benefits, both candidates have said that that is their final determination about who will ultimately be winning this. coming back to the basics, there is nothing that has happened in the last 24 hours that stops him, legally, from standing to be the candidates in november. in terms of the constitution, i mean, the state could technically intervene that they won't. the party could technically intervene, but won't. at the moment, understanding his base and registered in florida, he may not be able to vote himself, is that right? not be able to vote himself, is that rirht? , not be able to vote himself, is that ri. ht? , , . ., , not be able to vote himself, is that rirht? , , , ., ,., ., right? yes, because of the state law there that is — right? yes, because of the state law there that is true. _ right? yes, because of the state law there that is true. that _ right? yes, because of the state law there that is true. that is _ right? yes, because of the state law there that is true. that is part i right? yes, because of the state law there that is true. that is part of - there that is true. that is part of it. ithink there that is true. that is part of it. i think the likelihood... it's just a strange. this is the first time in american history that we are seeing this. there is a convicted felon who is going to be the presumptive nominee in a short amount of time. the likely nominee, and we have never seen this before. finn gomez there in new york, thank you for taking time to speak to us. let's continue with this with the democratic strategist. just a headline thought in terms of everything that is happening over the last 2a hours. just how you viewed it? the last 24 hours. just how you viewed it?— viewed it? absolutely. former president _ viewed it? absolutely. former president trump, _ viewed it? absolutely. former president trump, he - viewed it? absolutely. former president trump, he is - viewed it? absolutely. former president trump, he is a - viewed it? absolutely. former- president trump, he is a criminal. this trial and thejurors president trump, he is a criminal. this trial and the jurors that were selected out of new york, they showcase that tramp is not above the law, he can be held accountable, he will be held accountable. several witnesses asked the necessary questions to come to a conclusion. this is going to reship the course of american history, but also showcase a legacy that donna tom has. not only is he twice impeached, he is multi—indicted, he had over 80 plus fennelly counts, and in new york they found him guilty of 30 plus of all 3a, 36 plus that he was actually charged with. so at this point, it shows the american people who donald trump is, and if you're willing to elect a criminal, that is a new, but for the most part, we know that he is a felon. and that says something. he is once, still running, and two, the polls still show that he is very competitive. also that the republican party is willing to stand by unknown and convicted criminal. he willing to stand by unknown and convicted criminal.— willing to stand by unknown and convicted criminal. he said in that answer there. _ convicted criminal. he said in that answer there, this _ convicted criminal. he said in that answer there, this reshapes - convicted criminal. he said in that i answer there, this reshapes history. will it reshape this campaign, do you think? it will it reshape this campaign, do ou think? , , ., , you think? it depends who is campaign — you think? it depends who is campaign you're _ you think? it depends who is campaign you're talking - you think? it depends who is l campaign you're talking about. donald trump said from the onset of this case that this was basically a sham, this was the biden, he was chasing and creating less. when in all actuality, chasing and creating less. when in allactuality, he chasing and creating less. when in all actuality, he is charged by the district attorney in the state of new york. people from the state of new york. people from the state of new york. people from the state of new york were chosen for the jury, and it was a jury of his peers. that is how it works in the united states. he was charged in a criminal court, and found guilty by a criminal system ofjustice. at this point, i think his campaign is arguing their fundraising efforts. they raised over $34 million, we are yet to see proof of it, but that is what they have gone on record saying. he is using this as martyrdom. like everything he has been charged with before. for the democrats, for the biden campaign, they are pushing for the full speed ahead with issues that matter to the american people the most. the economy, health care, and they are looking forward to november. you talked about _ looking forward to november. you talked about donald trump utilising this for raising campaigns. joe biden put out a statement on x, but also called forfans biden put out a statement on x, but also called for fans to stopping rates for donald trump. that shows both sides are looking to do similar things as a result, but from different angles. in terms of what joe biden does, though, going forward. throughout this process and this criminal trial, in a sense, he has left it as the judicial system working independently from him. does he continue with that strategy, or be more direct about it? the 'udicial be more direct about it? the judicial system _ be more direct about it? the judicial system is _ be more direct about it? ila: judicial system is working independently for preston biden and the former government. what i do think as we are going to see state political parties, particularly in the background, where this decision will be, where it will come out of when it decides the next president. they are going to be surrogate on the ground. they're going to be political action committees on the ground who are running ads, on radio, television, in various different forms who are going to talk this. it’s different forms who are going to talk this. �* , ,., ., it's different what the campaign is doing and whatjoe biden does on camera, and we're going to see him on camera in the next 15 minutes or so. he is talking about the middle east, i'm sure he's going to be fired question about all of this. the question is, will he be direct about these convictions on camera? it might come up in the upcoming presidential debate. that first won is set injune, however, aside from that i do not believe so. the american people are voting on ever since. they are voting on the economy, women's reproductive rights. they aren't voting on tramp's criminality, they went to doing it before and want after this conviction. they're not a table top priorities for the american voter. i do think you will set that contrast between who donald trump actually is, now that he is a convicted felon, but also what is at stake for this nation. in terms of a former president and donald trump who wants to destroy our democracy cut those things matter to the american people. things matter to the american eo - le. ~ ., things matter to the american ..eole, . ., ., ~' things matter to the american --eole. ~ ., . ~' things matter to the american ..eole, . ., ., 4' , people. we leave it. thank you very much for being _ people. we leave it. thank you very much for being here _ people. we leave it. thank you very much for being here on _ people. we leave it. thank you very much for being here on the - much for being here on the programme, giving us those thoughts and how democrat's strategies view, but what we have seen and moving forward. let's go back to nada tawfik who is their outer side of trump tower, but of course, last night was outside the courthouse bringing continuous verdicts that were coming in. we are nearly 20 hours on, just give me your assessment of what lies ahead now. for donald trump, it was just so interesting to see in this news conference. it seemed like some of the fight had drained away from him. usually he relished in the past opportunities to spar with the press and questions. he would be more fiery in his rhetoric. but we have seen donald trump really one out through this trial. it's noticeable towards the end of it, today, noticeable again. he, for more than half an hour, vented about why he was a victim in this case, trying to re—litigate to every part of it, twist of early did it around, as a result of a conflicted judge and biased witnesses. for donald trump, it is interesting because americans are a bit fatigued from his legal troubles, and there are real campaign messages that resonate with his pace and with others when he talks about the economy, for example. when he talks about border security, and that was just a sliver of his comments today. and so everyone is going to be keeping a very close eye on how this effect donald trump, politically, butjust given his demeanour, and knowing what we know about donald trump and what we know about donald trump and what came out in that trial about how in tune he is with the press coverage of him, how much he cares about is brand, it must be such a devastating moment for him to finally have a convicted felon in his biography, to mark his history and his legacy for ever now. nada, the analysis _ and his legacy for ever now. nada, the analysis pretty _ and his legacy for ever now. nada, the analysis pretty much _ and his legacy for ever now. nada, the analysis pretty much the - the analysis pretty much the consensus is that it's not going to be jail time here when we get to sentencing. give me an idea of the options thejudge has sentencing. give me an idea of the options the judge has and is sentencing. give me an idea of the options thejudge has and is it sentencing. give me an idea of the options the judge has and is it too much of an assumption to think that the isn't going to be jail time when we see him again and again, he did it again today, go after the very man who will sentence him? yes. man who will sentence him? yes, matthew. man who will sentence him? yes, matthew- just _ man who will sentence him? yes, matthew. just to _ man who will sentence him? yes, matthew. just to point _ man who will sentence him? yes, matthew. just to point out, - man who will sentence him? ike: matthew. just to point out, there isn't a lot of noise behind me, there are many donald trump supporters and critics coming by trump towers, just to give you a bit of sense of the scene here. donald trump is supposed to be leaving soon to newjersey, but we believe he is still in trump tower. very much people with passionate political views coming here. certainly, when we look at sentencing, there are so many questions because the judge, it's up to him at his discretion. he is low level felony counts in new york can carry up to four years in prison. many legal experts say, well, look. donald trump's age, the first time offender, the first violent crime —— the first non—violent crime. it could stand against him in probation, fines, though nowhere near what he is facing from the civil business fraud case it here in new york, i should note. and so the judge will have to factor all of that in, as well as the fact that he is a former president with a secret service detail. just the amount of destruction that would cause the prison system here in new york state. but as you mentioned, donald trump violated that gag order, that was put in place, a limited guide dog dirt that he was barred from talking about the witnesses, the jury, the court's staff. that was to protect the integrity of the trial, and so many of us understood the judge's concern when we were reporting a mock trial, because so many prospective jurors were excused because they just couldn't many prospective jurors were excused because theyjust couldn't handle the pressure and the public scrutiny that they feared could come with serving on that trial. but donald trump continued to push the line as he so often dies, and only was deterred by the threat ofjail from thejudge. the behaviour of any defendant, put aside donald trump, the behaviour in court. whether they even acknowledged the crimes, show remorse. all of these things factor into sentencing. the judge will have a historic decision there, just on the sentencing piece. a historic decision there, 'ust on the sentencing piece._ a historic decision there, 'ust on the sentencing piece. nada, i will sin onl the sentencing piece. nada, i will sing only a _ the sentencing piece. nada, i will sing only a short _ the sentencing piece. nada, i will sing only a short while _ the sentencing piece. nada, i will sing only a short while ago - the sentencing piece. nada, i will sing only a short while ago that l sing only a short while ago that perhaps individual state could intervene, they probably won't. the party could intervene, it's highly likely they won't. but it will be interesting to watch in the coming hours and days, if anyone in the republican party actually breaks rank, given what we have seen? hagar rank, given what we have seen? how donald trump _ rank, given what we have seen? how donald trump will _ rank, given what we have seen? how donald trump will respond to that, matthew. i believe we have governor larry hogan making a comment shortly after the verdict, and immediately that maga crowd of politicians, not just online commentators, swarmed on him. make romney as well, as it tried senator in utah, who once ran for president, about a threat that donald trump poses. none of that has broken his hold on the party. neither tawfik there live in new york. thank you for taking us through that. let me point you towards the website. the very latest detail that we have heard from donald trump, what we have seen over the last 20 hours is there on the bbc new website and app. we will have plenty more from new york, those events surrounding donald trump here in the next little while. let me just remind you, because we are expecting to hear from the president from the white house in about five or six minutes. it was said about a couple of hours ago he will talk about the middle east, but we will see if any of those reporters there in the room in the white house asks questions about all of this, and of course if we get that, we will bring you those comments here on bbc news. but welcome if you have just comments here on bbc news. but welcome if you havejustjoined us. let's turn away from that for the little while. let's turn to the uk general election and bring you right up general election and bring you right up to date. we have seen significant news in this campaign in the last few hours from the labour leader. say keir starmer has said that diane abbott is free to go forward as his party's candidate in hackney north and stoke newington. brucie said it was up to the party's national executive committee if she could run. this is what he said earlier. diane abbott was elected in the 1987, the first black woman mp. she has been a trailblazer, she has carved a path for other people to come into politics and public life. the whip has avidly been restored to her now, and she is free to go forward as a labour candidate. haste forward as a labour candidate. have ou forward as a labour candidate. have you spoken — forward as a labour candidate. have you spoken to _ forward as a labour candidate. have you spoken to diane, _ forward as a labour candidate. have you spoken to diane, i— forward as a labour candidate. have you spoken to diane, i do _ forward as a labour candidate. have you spoken to diane, i do understand that she _ you spoken to diane, i do understand that she wants to put herself forward _ that she wants to put herself forward to stand? she that she wants to put herself forward to stand?— that she wants to put herself forward to stand? she is free to go forward to stand? she is free to go forward as a _ forward to stand? she is free to go forward as a labour— forward to stand? she is free to go forward as a labour candidate. - forward to stand? she is free to go forward as a labour candidate. the web is back with her, restored, and she was a trailblazer for many years. she has cleared the path for others to come into politics. it's a matter for the others to come into politics. it's a matterfor the nmc, but i have not expressed a view until now. she is free to go forward as a labour candidate. let free to go forward as a labour candidate-— candidate. let speak to our olitical candidate. let speak to our political correspondent - candidate. let speak to our political correspondent in i political correspondent in westminster. days and days of questions and finally, see a clear answer ahead of schedule planned that he has the nmc next tuesday? a, that he has the nmc next tuesday? clear answer to questions that had docked keir starmer and the labour campaign for three days, really. since diane abbott announced that she is black from sitting for the campaign. she is a close ally of the former labour leaderjeremy corbyn, and it was not a good look as sir keir starmer�*s own deputy, angela rayner, said diane abbott was britain's first elected black woman mp, she had been an mp for 37 years, and until today it wasn't clear that she would be able to stand as a labour candidate. circuit has said that she can go forward to that, and have her name stamped. what is diane abbott saying? she said she is not going to comment into that meeting next week, but the narrative looks positive. still, not certain that she will actually be a candidate in the selection. just she will actually be a candidate in the selection.— she will actually be a candidate in the selection. just a brief word, in terms of your— the selection. just a brief word, in terms of your assessment - the selection. just a brief word, in terms of your assessment of - the selection. just a brief word, in terms of your assessment of the l terms of your assessment of the damage of what you have just described over the last few days being the end result. is there any lasting long damage, do you think? the conservatives are trying to use it to say keir starmer is indecisive, that he is being pushed around by his deputy, that if he can't handle an issue like this, how will he handle vladimir putin? it may be over. it has certainly distracted attention from the policies he has put forward, but he hoped we and voters would be talking about. let hoped we and voters would be talking about. ., ., ., ., about. let go from what we have learned from _ about. let go from what we have learned from labour _ about. let go from what we have learned from labour in _ about. let go from what we have learned from labour in the - about. let go from what we have learned from labour in the last l learned from labour in the last couple of hours. let's head out to the liberal democrat's latest campaign speech. take us through the theme of the day for the liberal democrats. you take us through the theme of the day for the liberal democrats.— for the liberal democrats. you 'oin us here, for the liberal democrats. you 'oin us here. sir— for the liberal democrats. you 'oin us here. sir ed fl for the liberal democrats. you 'oin us here, sir ed davey i for the liberal democrats. you 'oin us here, sir ed davey with i for the liberal democrats. you 'oin us here, sir ed davey with his h us here, sir ed davey with his campaign team of supporters, campaign team of supporters, campaign workers here, south—west london so he's just been chatting to them there. as we've had all day and you've seen all week really, liberal democrats have these stops, they marshalled the supporters, they are all drilled before he gets here with their placards, there's a big cheer, sir ed davey comes to rally them. he's focused on many things each day this week, today the issue has all been about school meals, free school meals. cheering em cheering . ed dave 'ust 5:1 in oodb eto . ed davey 'ust saying goodbye to them . ed daveyjust saying goodbye to them today- _ . ed daveyjust saying goodbye to them today. they _ . ed daveyjust saying goodbye to them today. they want _ . ed daveyjust saying goodbye to them today. they want to - . ed daveyjust saying goodbye to them today. they want to expand school meal provision, they say to another 9000 pupils in england, that's primary and secondary by lifting the cap at which you would be eligible for that and it stands around 7.5 thousand. that would bring nearly a million children into free school meals and they think they can do that straightaway next school year by taxing companies, big companies that buy back their own shares. so that's the idea and the ultimate ambition, they say, is to have free school meals for all primary school children but that is some way off and that would depend on the economic circumstances, the tax situation being able to afford that. the liberal democrats keen on theseissues that. the liberal democrats keen on these issues we've seen as well, issues around mental health in school, public service issues, that the kind of things they've been pushing. the kind of things they've been -~ushin. ., ., . , pushing. damien dramatic is there in south london. _ pushing. damien dramatic is there in south london, more _ pushing. damien dramatic is there in south london, more politics- pushing. damien dramatic is there in south london, more politics in - pushing. damien dramatic is there in south london, more politics in a - south london, more politics in a moment. let mejust south london, more politics in a moment. let me just tell you and give you an update onjoe biden because i thought we were going to get that in the next five minutes, apparently it's been pushed back a little delay on that. we think now in about 30 minutes' time from the white house. but let's get back to the election campaign, and scotland's first minister admitting the snp faces a tough challenge in the snp faces a tough challenge in the upcoming election. the third largest party at westminster, he's been speaking to our political editor chris mason. my my first three weeks in office i would be leading us into the next campaign. would be leading us into the next camaiun. ., �* ,, campaign. you're the third snp leader since _ campaign. you're the third snp leader since the _ campaign. you're the third snp leader since the last _ campaign. you're the third snp leader since the last general i leader since the last general election, snp has been in power in scotland since 2007, what do you say to the person who says the party might be a bit clapped out, tired. we've actually transformed lives in scotland and transformed. we have more than doubled the provision of childcare for children and families around the country. we've delivered around the country. we've delivered a higher growth and gdp per capita then has been achieved and the rest of the uk over our common office. so the snp has delivered much for scotland and the government i lead is focused on making sure that we continue that delivery for people and their lives in scotland. you've said today — and their lives in scotland. you've said today that _ and their lives in scotland. you've said today that it's _ and their lives in scotland. you've said today that it's important, - said today that it's important, to quote you, to get rid of the tories. isn't the easiest way to get rid of the tories to vote for labour? we were in the tories to vote for labour? , were in second place in these constituencies, so if we want to numerically get rid of the tories in scotland, peoplejust numerically get rid of the tories in scotland, people just need to vote snp and i will get rid of the tories in those constituencies. but people are conscious _ in those constituencies. but people are conscious in _ in those constituencies. but people are conscious in scotland _ in those constituencies. but people are conscious in scotland of - in those constituencies. but people are conscious in scotland of getting rid of the conservatives, it's a uk wide level. that is more seats where labour are very competitive against you in scotland as far as those six currently conservative held seats are. ., , ., currently conservative held seats are. ., ., ., , , are. people got to ask themselves, who is going _ are. people got to ask themselves, who is going to _ are. people got to ask themselves, who is going to make _ are. people got to ask themselves, who is going to make a _ are. people got to ask themselves, l who is going to make a bigger impact in westminster? i think the snp is going to make a bigger impact because they are going to rail against austerity, keir starmer is going to prolong austerity, the real against brexit, which has been imposed on scotland. keir starmer and labourare going imposed on scotland. keir starmer and labour are going to support brexit. the length and breadth of the country doesn't look like it's going to be influenced much by a labour government that is frankly in many of its states going to reduce employment in scotland in the energy sector by the steps that they are taking. what people are looking for strong voices from scotland who will be acting for scotland, and that's what snp mps do. is be acting for scotland, and that's what snp mps do.— what snp mps do. is this a good rimin: what snp mps do. is this a good priming moment _ what snp mps do. is this a good priming moment for _ what snp mps do. is this a good priming moment for scotland's i priming moment for scotland's independence? we priming moment for scotland's independence?— priming moment for scotland's independence? priming moment for scotland's indeendence? ~ ., ., ~ , independence? we need to make sure we have this — independence? we need to make sure we have this starkest _ independence? we need to make sure we have this starkest presence - independence? we need to make sure we have this starkest presence of- we have this starkest presence of smp's we have this starkest presence of smp's in westminster. through the snp winds the majority seats in scotland i'll be wanting to open up the process of scotland becoming an independent country. that's going to be at the heart of her manifesto. it be at the heart of her manifesto. if westminster says no, it looks like whoever wins you do what? we've got a democratic — whoever wins you do what? we've got a democratic crisis _ whoever wins you do what? we've got a democratic crisis then _ whoever wins you do what? we've got a democratic crisis then if _ a democratic crisis then if westminster politicians just turn their backs on the opinions of people in scotland, and here in scotland today, independent�*s supporters are strong if not stronger than it was in 2014. people want to, there's a very big body of opinion that want scotland to be independent and i think that big body of opinion has to be heard and it can be heard most effectively by voting for the snp.— voting for the snp. let's be blunt. do ou voting for the snp. let's be blunt. do you feel _ voting for the snp. let's be blunt. do you feel the — voting for the snp. let's be blunt. do you feel the political _ voting for the snp. let's be blunt. l do you feel the political headwinds? for any later when you come after quite a bit of internal commotion within the party, when your party has been a government in scotland for very long time, is likely to face tough political times? it looks like times are pretty tough for the snp. d0 like times are pretty tough for the snp. y ., like times are pretty tough for the snp. _, ., like times are pretty tough for the snp. ., , snp. do you feel that? of course, that's frankly _ snp. do you feel that? of course, that's frankly while _ snp. do you feel that? of course, that's frankly while i'm _ snp. do you feel that? of course, that's frankly while i'm here. -- l that's frankly while i'm here. —— why i'm here. that's why you're interviewing me, because of those tough times. i stepped in to build the snp and build trust in the snp... the snp and build trust in the snp. .. , ~ the snp and build trust in the snp... , ~ ., ., snp... does it feel like managing decline? no. _ snp... does it feel like managing decline? no, it— snp... does it feel like managing decline? no, it feels _ snp... does it feel like managing decline? no, it feels like - snp... does it feel like managing decline? no, it feels like buildingj decline? no, it feels like building the -a decline? no, it feels like building the party up- _ decline? no, it feels like building the party up. that's _ decline? no, it feels like building the party up. that's what - decline? no, it feels like building the party up. that's what i'm - decline? no, it feels like building i the party up. that's what i'm about. undoubtedly we've had a rough. and i'm here to build the snp up and i've got the trust and the confidence of the snp, in a couple of weeks i've brought the party together into really aiden effective fighting machine around the country and i'm no getting out there around the country to bring the country together to support the snp to make the calls that are important about decisions about scotland be taking in scotland for scotland. igruflmt decisions about scotland be taking in scotland for scotland. what does success look _ in scotland for scotland. what does success look like _ in scotland for scotland. what does success look like at _ in scotland for scotland. what does success look like at the _ in scotland for scotland. what does success look like at the general- success look like at the general election? do you need to maintain your position is the third biggest party? your position is the third biggest .a ? . ., ., ., ., , party? what i want to do is when the [arrest party? what i want to do is when the largest number— party? what i want to do is when the largest number of _ party? what i want to do is when the largest number of seats _ party? what i want to do is when the largest number of seats in _ largest number of seats in scotland that it possibly can and that's what i'm going to use the selection to do. let's speak to jessica parker, let's speak tojessica parker, on the conservative campaign bus for us today. and it's all been about anti—social behaviour, that's what they focus on today. anti-social behaviour, that's what they focus on today.— anti-social behaviour, that's what they focus on today. yes, though the hoto they focus on today. yes, though the photo opportunities _ they focus on today. yes, though the photo opportunities thus _ they focus on today. yes, though the photo opportunities thus far - they focus on today. yes, though the photo opportunities thus far have - photo opportunities thus far have not quite lend themselves to that theme. i'll talk you to the policy quickly first and what we've been seeing today from the department's, the tories have been promising if they got back into government to crack down on anti—social behaviour in social housing, by evicting tenants who are repeat offenders, and on fly—tipping people who are caught doing low—level fly—tipping could see points added to their drivers licence as a form of penalty. labourand drivers licence as a form of penalty. labour and the lib dems to come of this policy would apply to england have said that the conservatives have a woeful record on these issues. in terms of what we've been saying mr sunak doing here in the north—west as we ride around in our bus, we've been seeing some very lovely english countryside, he was at a farm earlier today where he was meeting people we were told were local farmers, had a sit down with them, sat down on the hate to have a chat, and he was also seen feeding some lambs with milk bottles for the photo opportunity, as well. so that's been a sort of day so far, here in the north—west. as they... aren't such a kind of those eye—catching announcements such as national service and local community labour hood policies such as fly—tipping tackling and anti—social behaviour. they may or be concerned in conservative ranks despite all the things they've been announcing there hasn't been any kind of significant shift in the polls as we've seen come all the usual caveats apply but they may have been hoping for those policies, while they had caught people's attention might have an impact there as well. we pick up some of those themes in a moment but let's get back to some of the policy announcements today. labour, because they have been pledging to set up a publicly owned company, great british energy which it says will lead to an investment in clean power and drive down energy bills but the snp and conservatives say that labor�*s plans will cost tens of thousands ofjobs. who is right? nick lee has been taking a look. labour is talking today about this, great british energy, a publicly owned power company they want to set up and they are claiming today that this will mean more energy bills, they also say that under the conservatives, prices would be higher. but are they right? and where's the evidence? let's start with some context. we've all experienced the cost of living going up experienced the cost of living going up and energy bills were a huge part of it. this is what happened in the past couple years. big increases in the cost of gas and that meant big increases in bills. the government did subsidise some energy bills and as you can see here the cost of gas has come down a lot recently. but what happens next? well, labour say their plan will bring bills down, they want to bring more new renewable energy, and because renewable energy, and because renewable power is cheaper they say it will save people money. this, that's the figure they put on it, £300 per year. but that figure requires a big switch to renewables. i asked labour how they arrived at this figure, and here's what they pointed to. a study that says you would need 98% of electricity from clean sources, that is a big increase. it would cost money for infrastructure, and this is important, it will take a few years. you're not going to see that happen right away if labour wind power. there's also this claim in labor�*s press release today. they say that conservative plans will cost families money because at the moment, the uk imports a lot of gas and that means rising international gas prices have more of an impact. and as you can see here, dave said there's a threat of £900 annual energy price spike under the conservatives. but we think that this down there, unlikely. labour is assuming prices go up and the same way they did in the cost of living screens. there's another massive shockin screens. there's another massive shock in the energy market like when russia invaded ukraine. that is very uncertain indeed. the recent price rises have not been normal. the conservatives, by the way, also have a pledge to get more green energy, too, and if that happened it would mean less reliance on gas imports and could also reduce prices. so... bills could go down, if his plan works, but some of the figures are uncertain, particularly when it comes to what labour say would happen if the conservatives stay in power. knitterrdly at bbc verify. let me introduce my next two guests. former adviser to tony blair, former special adviser in the wales office during the coming years, welcome both to the programme. here we are, day eight or nine of this campaign, friday. let's take stock of the campaigning we've seen. john, to you first of all. as a former adviser, tell me what it's been like watching the whole diane abbott saga just go on day after day? it the whole diane abbott saga 'ust go on day after amt on day after day? it brought my heart -- broke _ on day after day? it brought my heart -- broke my _ on day after day? it brought my heart -- broke my heart - on day after day? it brought my heart -- broke my heart to - on day after day? it brought my heart -- broke my heart to see | on day after day? it brought my i heart -- broke my heart to see the heart —— broke my heart to see the way diane was being treated, and professionally, i was concerned that it wasn't cleaned up within six minutes of the briefing to the times. it's taken a few days for the inevitable to happen, which is that diane, having had the whip restored is being told it's for her to decide what her future is, is being told it's for her to decide what herfuture is, not is being told it's for her to decide what her future is, not in an ominous person from the labour h0. you quite often read behind the scenes, is this keir starmerjust being leaden footed? it scenes, is this keir starmer 'ust being leaden footed?i being leaden footed? it was the o eration being leaden footed? it was the operation not _ being leaden footed? it was the operation not moving _ being leaden footed? it was the operation not moving fast - being leaden footed? it was the i operation not moving fast enough. what does it mean, operation? the campaign operation. this is a mixture of politics because it has to be dealt with by the committee. real politics which is the leadership that made a call quickly, and then communications. it's the way those things, when a campaign runs smoothly as you saw in the beginning of the week, cures message was there, but when things fall apart they all fell apart, all the different bits fall apart as well. so thing is, as in driving, in politics, speed kills. you have to act as fast as you can to get to the place you're going to be dragged to and labour has been dragged to has been unseemly. {iii and labour has been dragged to has been unseemly-— been unseemly. of course as a strategist. _ been unseemly. of course as a strategist. you _ been unseemly. of course as a strategist, you will _ been unseemly. of course as a strategist, you will notice i been unseemly. of course as a strategist, you will notice as i been unseemly. of course as a l strategist, you will notice as well lauren, when you have this clash of the news agenda and when that is not in sync you're in trouble. must turn from that though to what we've seen with the conservatives. your assessment of the campaign so far. i think that there have been some policies — think that there have been some policies that are announced that will be _ policies that are announced that will be difficult to sell to more than _ will be difficult to sell to more than one — will be difficult to sell to more than one age bracket. the national service _ than one age bracket. the national service announcement seems designed to very— service announcement seems designed to very squarely put tanks on ratomis— to very squarely put tanks on reform's lawn, tanks with actual teenagers — reform's lawn, tanks with actual teenagers in them, that seems to be very much— teenagers in them, that seems to be very much going after reform's vote, i do not _ very much going after reform's vote, i do not sure — very much going after reform's vote, i do not sure it will appeal to parents _ i do not sure it will appeal to parents and teenagers, or young people _ parents and teenagers, or young people who are going to be voting the first— people who are going to be voting the first time this time around. possibility of military service, community service, i'm not sure this was the _ community service, i'm not sure this was the solution so i think there's going _ was the solution so i think there's going to _ was the solution so i think there's going to be — was the solution so i think there's going to be an ongoing conversation about— going to be an ongoing conversation about that _ going to be an ongoing conversation about that from throughout the election — about that from throughout the election. some of the smaller policies — election. some of the smaller policies announced today come a point _ policies announced today come a point on — policies announced today come a point on your licence if you fly to it, point on your licence if you fly to it. there's — point on your licence if you fly to it, there's absolutely no reason that that — it, there's absolutely no reason that that couldn't have been done in 30 seconds — that that couldn't have been done in 30 seconds by mark harper as transport _ 30 seconds by mark harper as transport secretary, that's not a bi! transport secretary, that's not a big reveal — transport secretary, that's not a big reveal for a manifesto, so it's been _ big reveal for a manifesto, so it's been a _ big reveal for a manifesto, so it's been a mixed bag this week. i�*ve been a mixed bag this week. i've been a mixed bag this week. i've been asking _ been a mixed bag this week. i�*e been asking just been a mixed bag this week. ie been asking just that been a mixed bag this week. if: been asking just that question, been a mixed bag this week. i�*we been asking just that question, when you look at all the pulling the out the one thing that absolutelyjumps out that the nhs is the thing most people are worried on. it's either one or two, and virtually every single pull, and yet there's been virtually nothing. you got policies on flight to been, you've got policies on national service, why? that's probably because they're holding — that's probably because they're holding big announcements for that for manifesto, rather than drip out in advance, — for manifesto, rather than drip out in advance, a big announcement on social— in advance, a big announcement on social care — in advance, a big announcement on social care or— in advance, a big announcement on social care or the nhs would really have to _ social care or the nhs would really have to wait for a manifesto rather than a _ have to wait for a manifesto rather than a brief— have to wait for a manifesto rather than a brief to the sunday papers. that's_ than a brief to the sunday papers. that's a _ than a brief to the sunday papers. that's a big — than a brief to the sunday papers. that's a big chunky piece of policy work— that's a big chunky piece of policy work that— that's a big chunky piece of policy work that has happened and that really— work that has happened and that really does have to go through more people _ really does have to go through more people. then for example i suspect the national service thing went through. — the national service thing went through, for that you want to manifesto. | through, for that you want to manifesto-— through, for that you want to manifesto. ~ , ., , , manifesto. i think the problem is, isn't it, manifesto. i think the problem is, isn't it. that _ manifesto. i think the problem is, isn't it, that when _ manifesto. i think the problem is, isn't it, that when you're - manifesto. i think the problem is, isn't it, that when you're behind, l isn't it, that when you're behind, you need to win ground quickly. and if it can see why you are trying to consolidate your vote with the national service policy but holding onto big policy and things people care about, crime or the nhs, that's going to be difficult because you've had over a week campaigning and the polls haven't narrowed, the pulse of actually slightly grown, the gap has grown in favour of labour. it's like if i was behind, i would throw everything that was really big and strong and chunky even bringing the manifesto forward. i strong and chunky even bringing the manifesto forward.— strong and chunky even bringing the manifesto forward. i presume they're not auoin manifesto forward. i presume they're not going to — manifesto forward. i presume they're not going to wait _ manifesto forward. i presume they're not going to wait until— manifesto forward. i presume they're not going to wait until week - manifesto forward. i presume they're not going to wait until week four- manifesto forward. i presume they're not going to wait until week four or i not going to wait until week four or five to— not going to wait until week four or five to bring — not going to wait until week four or five to bring a manifesto, they're going _ five to bring a manifesto, they're going to — five to bring a manifesto, they're going to do it much faster than that _ going to do it much faster than that. there's also a? if what can go in there _ that. there's also a? if what can go in there in— that. there's also a? if what can go in there. i'm sure they want as much time— in there. i'm sure they want as much time as— in there. i'm sure they want as much time as possible to get more meat on the bones _ time as possible to get more meat on the bones. the time as possible to get more meat on the bones. . ., , ., the bones. the conservative team-mate _ the bones. the conservative team-mate a _ the bones. the conservative team-mate a point - the bones. the conservative team-mate a point at i the bones. the conservative team-mate a point at the i the bones. the conservative i team-mate a point at the end she the bones. the conservative - team-mate a point at the end she has team—mate a point at the end she has been watching all these policy announcements and it hasn't moved the dial it all in terms of the average of polling, at what stage do you think, if at all, an element of panic sets in for conservatives? national service wasn't panic? yeah, i mean it was, i think. that's anic. i mean it was, i think. that's panic- l'm — i mean it was, i think. that's panic. i'm sorry. _ i mean it was, i think. that's panic. i'm sorry. panic- i mean it was, i think. that's panic. i'm sorry. panic is- i mean it was, i think. that's i panic. i'm sorry. panic is happening now _ panic. i'm sorry. panic is happening now i_ panic. i'm sorry. panic is happening now i really. — panic. i'm sorry. panic is happening now. i really, genuinely, i'm sorry ilove— now. i really, genuinely, i'm sorry i love my— now. i really, genuinely, i'm sorry i love my party and i hope we do welli _ i love my party and i hope we do well, i'm — i love my party and i hope we do well, i'm hope i'm wrong about everything i'm about to say, but he really _ everything i'm about to say, but he really do _ everything i'm about to say, but he really do believe that if you're announcing national service policies on the _ announcing national service policies on the weekend and of a general election— on the weekend and of a general election campaign you've hit the panic— election campaign you've hit the panic button already. find election campaign you've hit the panic button already.— panic button already. and the quadruple _ panic button already. and the quadruple lock. _ panic button already. and the quadruple lock. pension i panic button already. and the i quadruple lock. pension protections. we're pretty — quadruple lock. pension protections. we're pretty close — quadruple lock. pension protections. we're pretty close for _ quadruple lock. pension protections. we're pretty close for free _ quadruple lock. pension protections. we're pretty close for free food i quadruple lock. pension protections. we're pretty close for free food for i we're pretty close for free food for pensioners. the we're pretty close for free food for pensioners-— pensioners. the conservative ark mi . ht pensioners. the conservative ark miaht use pensioners. the conservative ark might use to _ pensioners. the conservative ark might use to be _ pensioners. the conservative ark might use to be you _ pensioners. the conservative ark might use to be you need i pensioners. the conservative ark might use to be you need to i pensioners. the conservative ark. might use to be you need to convert people _ might use to be you need to convert people in— might use to be you need to convert people in the early 30s and 40s to being _ people in the early 30s and 40s to being conservative voters.- being conservative voters. you're talkin: being conservative voters. you're talking about _ being conservative voters. you're talking about basically _ talking about basically consolidating big core vote and that seems to save strategy, defensive strategy, that is your court take away. butjohn, you know, you've heard the charge already that it's a safe labour campaign, do you buy that or do you think that the backdrop means there can be no other option? i backdrop means there can be no other 0 tion? ., ., ., ~' ~ option? i mean, look, ithink... the fiscal constraints _ option? i mean, look, ithink... the fiscal constraints on _ option? i mean, look, ithink... the fiscal constraints on an _ option? i mean, look, ithink... the fiscal constraints on an opposition i fiscal constraints on an opposition party who can't look at the books, who don't really know what you can do, when your government you can find 100 million behind the back of the sofa, but you are in opposition your question all the time. but today's announcement is notjust a nationally owned energy company, it's when capitalised with e9 it's when capitalised with £9 billion. and it's backed up by a national wealth fund and is backed up national wealth fund and is backed up with a spending programme which has been reduced but is per capita the same scale as biden's inflation reduction act. the difficulty about labour is labour talk and act,... crosstalk various parts of tax, income tax, the trouble is and it's an obvious thing to say, if you handcuff yourself right at the start, then yourself right at the start, then you haven't got the money to do the more dramatic things that perhaps people, perhaps might be... riff people, perhaps might be... of course we had this problem in 2010 having _ course we had this problem in 2010 having to _ course we had this problem in 2010 having to raise vat, having set in the campaign that we wouldn't. this is something that happens... which is something that happens... which is what they — is something that happens... which is what they anticipate _ is something that happens... which is what they anticipate hysteria i is something that happens... tram an is what they anticipate hysteria on steroids —— austerity on steroids. what she's saying, that's absolutely not going to happen so it's quite interesting that rachel reeves says the policies of it, and she's explained... the policies of it, and she's explained. . .— the policies of it, and she's explained... the policies of it, and she's exlained... , ., ., explained... explained to me the root explained. .. explained to me the root mapper— explained... explained to me the root mapper wave _ explained... explained to me the root mapper wave and _ explained... explained to me the root mapper wave and that i explained... explained to me the root mapper wave and that then. i root mapper wave and that then. surely anything that helps them is to have growth that she talks about but you cannot magic up growth and those first... the but you cannot magic up growth and those first- - -— those first... the first thing that hels ou those first... the first thing that helps you is _ those first... the first thing that helps you is the _ those first... the first thing that helps you is the ob _ those first... the first thing that helps you is the ob are's i helps you is the ob are's calculations about what next year and the year after will be in terms of interest rate assumptions, as will be affected by it, the government would like to hang on until october because interest rates will fall, when they fall they give you headroom, so labour will have more headroom, i think everybody understands that labour will have some headroom. i think the difficulty is, labour are almost muffling the radical offer, the plants on workers' rights are really substantial. and yet labour get a key is that they're not going to change anything for them i think the thing is, in a way where being playing for the same group of voters, the redwall voters, understanding that they are cautious about something, particularly about spending. but the most recent opinion polls, you know, look at some of the details. of people under 50, 50 9% are some of the details. of people under 50,50 9% are going to vote labour and 8% are going to vote tory, that's notjust an election defeat, that's notjust an election defeat, that's an existential crisis. iii i that's an existential crisis. if i had to promote you, but you in charge of this campaign, lauren, you're laughing, but if i did, what would you change? i you're laughing, but ifi did, what would you change?— you're laughing, but ifi did, what would you change? i think we need to be talkin: would you change? i think we need to be talking more _ would you change? i think we need to be talking more about _ would you change? i think we need to be talking more about the _ would you change? i think we need to be talking more about the railways, i be talking more about the railways, actually. _ be talking more about the railways, actually. in— be talking more about the railways, actually, in a really big way and front_ actually, in a really big way and front and — actually, in a really big way and front and centre way, we've been avoiding — front and centre way, we've been avoiding it — front and centre way, we've been avoiding it for really long time. if you look— avoiding it for really long time. if you look at— avoiding it for really long time. if you look at that bank of redwall seats, _ you look at that bank of redwall seats, it — you look at that bank of redwall seats, it is — you look at that bank of redwall seats, it is exactly the same bank that has— seats, it is exactly the same bank that has the northern rail problems and the _ that has the northern rail problems and the trans benign real problem, we and _ and the trans benign real problem, we and we — and the trans benign real problem, we and we have failed to address them _ we and we have failed to address them over— we and we have failed to address them over the last five years. and without _ them over the last five years. and without grappling with a vast commuter belt as being substantially underserved in almost everything that is_ underserved in almost everything that is dealing with the railways, we will— that is dealing with the railways, we will lose ground automatically to labour— mack's we will lose ground automatically to labour—mack's number one priority. labour— mack's number one priority. my big _ labour— mack's number one priority. my big build — labour—mack's number one priority. my big build on that would be the government have showed no interest in defeating unions, they backed off. labourare in defeating unions, they backed off. labour are going to nationalise every single labour dispute on the railways and suddenly it will be the transport secretary's response ability to sort it out. i’ge transport secretary's response ability to sort it out.— ability to sort it out. i've heard earlier but _ ability to sort it out. i've heard earlier but panic _ ability to sort it out. i've heard earlier but panic setting - ability to sort it out. i've heard earlier but panic setting in - ability to sort it out. i've heard l earlier but panic setting in terms of polling. if suddenly we see in the coming weeks the polls tighten, where do you think the labour campaign then goes? it. where do you think the labour campaign then goes?- where do you think the labour campaign then goes? c, the labour camaian campaign then goes? c, the labour campaign has _ campaign then goes? c, the labour campaign has some _ campaign then goes? c, the labour campaign has some flex _ campaign then goes? c, the labour campaign has some flex and - campaign then goes? c, the labour campaign has some flex and in - campaign then goes? c, the labour campaign has some flex and in the| campaign has some flex and in the moment because if you look at constituencies that labour is campaigning and, they are on the stretch of labour—mack's ambitions, my party have been asked to campaign in accordance south, that's what the labour party is thinking. you can consolidate and if it was only 500 seats we will settle for 400. i think the gap would need to narrow it rapidly and also in a well distributed weight because at the moment the anti—tory vote, green or nationalist is evenly spread around the country in a very effective way because your furore tory candidate you feel the pinch. let because your furore tory candidate you feel the pinch.— you feel the pinch. let me ask you about individuals _ you feel the pinch. let me ask you about individuals because - you feel the pinch. let me ask you about individuals because you - you feel the pinch. let me ask you l about individuals because you know, we've got the debates coming up, they are head—to—head debates. what do you make of that, yet another indication of a sort of presidential style of elections that would drift ever closer towards. it’s style of elections that would drift ever closer towards. it's something i'm not wild — ever closer towards. it's something i'm not wild about, _ ever closer towards. it's something i'm not wild about, my _ ever closer towards. it's something i'm not wild about, my background | ever closer towards. it's something i i'm not wild about, my background is in welsh _ i'm not wild about, my background is in welsh politics, his is scottish politics — in welsh politics, his is scottish politics. may have to have a very different — politics. may have to have a very different conversation about how we'd _ different conversation about how we'd address leadership in this country. — we'd address leadership in this country, and these head—to—head debates— country, and these head—to—head debates to — country, and these head—to—head debates to promote a presidential style. _ debates to promote a presidential style. at— debates to promote a presidential style, at the end of the day rishi sunak— style, at the end of the day rishi sunak still— style, at the end of the day rishi sunak still stands in constituency against _ sunak still stands in constituency against elmo and his local labour candidate — against elmo and his local labour candidate and his local liberal democrat candidate and keir starmer does the _ democrat candidate and keir starmer does the same, and plaid cymru are very upset— does the same, and plaid cymru are very upset that there are head—to—head later debates because they say— head—to—head later debates because they say justifiably head—to—head later debates because they sayjustifiably is my party feel in— they sayjustifiably is my party feel in wales, the labour running wales— feel in wales, the labour running wales from cardiff there must be more _ wales from cardiff there must be more scrutiny of them at a national level. _ more scrutiny of them at a national level. the _ more scrutiny of them at a national level, the other parties and wills are chomping at the bit to criticise how labour— are chomping at the bit to criticise how labour are running it. are chomping at the bit to criticise how labourare running it. | are chomping at the bit to criticise how labour are running it.- are chomping at the bit to criticise how labour are running it. i want to ask ou a how labour are running it. i want to ask you a final— how labour are running it. i want to ask you a final question _ how labour are running it. i want to ask you a final question about - ask you a final question about individuals, we were talking about the debates but who individually do you think of the main party leaders is having a good campaign, seems to be enjoying it, connecting well, and elated, what have you made of the first eight or nine days? i elated, what have you made of the first eight or nine days?— first eight or nine days? i think the one that's _ first eight or nine days? i think the one that's in _ first eight or nine days? i think the one that's in it _ first eight or nine days? i think the one that's in it as - first eight or nine days? i think the one that's in it as much - first eight or nine days? i think the one that's in it as much is. first eight or nine days? i think i the one that's in it as much is ed davey. _ the one that's in it as much is ed davey. he — the one that's in it as much is ed davey, he is _ the one that's in it as much is ed davey, he is insulated in a wet suit, _ davey, he is insulated in a wet suit. i— davey, he is insulated in a wet suit. idon't— davey, he is insulated in a wet suit, i don't know how much impact is having _ suit, idon't know how much impact is having lrut— suit, i don't know how much impact is having but he seems to be having a bus, _ is having but he seems to be having a bus, l'm _ is having but he seems to be having a bus, i'm happy for him. the unifying— a bus, i'm happy for him. the unifying future in national politics is everybody getting to take the mix out of _ is everybody getting to take the mix out of lib _ is everybody getting to take the mix out of lib dems again which is nice. ithink— out of lib dems again which is nice. i think keir— out of lib dems again which is nice. ithink keir starmer out of lib dems again which is nice. i think keir starmer is enjoying having equal coverage, he's enjoying to be out and about in the country, i think he wasn't able to when he became party leader he couldn't go out and about because of covid. this is the first time he's actually have the time of the space to go out and about around the country and you see him looking confident and i'm pretty sure there's a lot of buckling wherever he goes.— sure there's a lot of buckling wherever he goes. sure there's a lot of buckling wherever he noes. , ., ., wherever he goes. listen, we are out of time but — wherever he goes. listen, we are out of time but thank _ wherever he goes. listen, we are out of time but thank you _ wherever he goes. listen, we are out of time but thank you both _ wherever he goes. listen, we are out of time but thank you both for - of time but thank you both for your time, for coming and talking to me just to mull over the campaign that we've seen, perhaps we could do it again in the next couple of weeks. that's almost at it from the programme, before go back to what has dominated for the last couple of hours which was donald trump's in new york, were not that far away from 24 hours from that 34 guilty counts, these are life pictures from outside trump tower and of course today we've heard from donald trump confirming he will appeal, but again, a wild rant for 35 minutes in terms of a whole variety of grievances, but certainly those are the pictures we've seen in the last hour. we've seen the response from the biden campaign team as we seen in the last few minutes as we've been talking about the biden campaign blessing what they saw and the speech as confused and desperate. so that the latest from the campaign team from biden, that the campaign team from biden, that the latest from your, thanks for watching us through the course of the last few ours, next up is time for the six o'clock news, goodbye for the six o'clock news, goodbye for now. there will be some drier weather, there was a chilly wind blowing, some of the strongest winds have been here in norfolk, gusting to 40 miles an hour, the wind off the north sea making it feel quite chilly. around the edge of this area of high pressure that's where we've got the trunk as of the winds that's been bringing a lot of cloud as some eastern parts of england, a little rain earlier as well, that's moving away. we'll hang on to some cloud, eastern areas of the uk over overnight. later ones as well, it could turn a little chilly, six or 7 degrees first thing in the morning, heading into tomorrow it will warm up heading into tomorrow it will warm up in the sunshine, more sunshine across east anglia on the south—east of england, should be dry here as well. more cloud though coming down over scotland into northern england in the midlands could bring one or two showers, otherwise it should be dry. sunny spells for northern ireland, lots of sunshine in scotland, temperatures in the central belt reaching 20 degrees on saturday afternoon. and across the south—east it will be a warmer day with more sunshine, the winds not as strong either. the high pressure that's bringing a lot of dry weather is tending to get pushed away a little bit on sunday, around the top of that hi we are seeing more cloud coming in from the atlantic, that will bring clutter skies into scotland and northern ireland, may be as few spots of rain in the north—west. pushed into northern england and further south we've got sunny spells, wins continuing to fall lighter across southeastern areas so some warming up here further, heise could reach 22 degrees. still quite warm across north—east england, eastern scotland with some sunshine, not quite so warm and western scotland, where we got all this cloud, and the club will push its way southwards overnight into monday, together with that weather front which is very weak, so there is little or no rain on that. it's more cloud that's moving southwards, followed by sunshine in northern england and scotland, and perhaps northern ireland. temperatures reading 17-18 , ireland. temperatures reading 17—18 , for south even with some cloud we've got highs of 20 celsius. the area of high pressure is getting pushed away and that's allowing north—westerly winds to come in, those will be stronger on tuesday, polar maritime air could bring some showers, wintry over the scottish mountains, still warm and dry in southern england. at 6:00pm, donald trump vows to appeal his criminal conviction, as american politics enters uncharted territory. applause. in a rambling speech for supporters, the likely republican nominee for president vented against thejudicial system. this is a scam, it is a rigged trial. it shouldn't have been in that venue, we shouldn't have had thatjudge. and with reaction pouring into this extraordinary verdict from around the country, joe biden says donald trump _ the country, joe biden says donald trump is _ the country, joe biden says donald trump is a — the country, joe biden says donald trump is a threat to democracy. we'll hear from republican voters in a key swing state. also on the programme... sir keir starmer says diane abbott is free to stand in the election. after fighting intensifies in northern ukraine, america and germany say kyiv can use western—supplied munitions to strike inside russia. and fresh hope for cancer patients as a new personalised vaccine goes on trial. and coming up on bbc news... the lionesses face france in their euro qualifier later. les bleus are at the top of the group, but defending

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