Transcripts For BBCNEWS Newscast 20240703

Now on bbc news newscast no interest to cut rates yet i think it does because itjust taps into the thing that, perhaps often, with the various rows and elections and staff can occasionally cloud what we as journalists know and the Political Parties who are aware there is a general election coming which is the Biggest Issue by a mile when they do their focus groups with voters or they were out knocking the doors. This is to state the obvious but it cannot be stated often enough, the Biggest Issue is the cost of living. Ultimately, the economy, vitality or otherwise of the economy and how do people measure that . They do not measure it in gdp is Interest Rates, they measure it and how well off or not you feel and that is the big, big topic. You feel and that is the big, big toic. ,. ,. , topic. That is the politics of it. I not a topic. That is the politics of it. I got a little topic. That is the politics of it. I got a little insight topic. That is the politics of it. I got a little insight into topic. That is the politics of it. I got a little insight into the got a little insight into the economic summit while chris was making his way here. Slightly more slowly than we were expecting because i caught up with. I got lost. Im because i caught up with. I got last im sorry because i caught up with. I got lost. Im sorry to reveal because i caught up with. I got lost. Im sorry to reveal your lost. Im sorry to revealyour movements. Lost. Im sorry to revealyour movements. I lost. Im sorry to revealyour movements. I caught lost. Im sorry to revealyour movements. I caught up lost. Im sorry to revealyour| movements. I caught up with lost. Im sorry to reveal your movements. I caught up with the bbc chief economic correspondent and the former Chief Economist for the Bank Of England and now Chief Executive of england and now Chief Executive of the Royal Society of arts. Hello. Are low. Thank you for having me back are low. Thank you for having me back. ~. , are low. Thank you for having me back. ~ ,. ~ are low. Thank you for having me back. ~. ,~ back. Welcome back, too. We make lovel to back. Welcome back, too. We make lovely to be back. Welcome back, too. We make lovely to be here. Back. Welcome back, too. We make lovely to be here. Journalist back. Welcome back, too. We make lovely to be here. Journalist like lovely to be here. Journalist like things when they are dramatic. Things are changing. Interest rates did not change. Does that mean it was boring . It did not change. Does that mean it was boring . Was boring . It is not boring. 86 aes was boring . It is not boring. 86 aes of was boring . It is not boring. 86 pages of fine was boring . It is not boring. 86 pages of fine print. Was boring . It is not boring. 86 pages of fine print. How was boring . It is not boring. 86 pages of fine print. How can was boring . It is not boring. 86 pages of fine print. How can it i was boring . It is not boring. 86 i pages of fine print. How can it be boring . Pages of fine print. How can it be boring . People remortgaging this yeah boring . People remortgaging this year. They all want what is going on with Interest Rates. Inching closer. We are with Interest Rates. Inching closer. We are getting there. If you believe the bank we are getting there. If you believe the Bank Of England, they say we are turning the Bank Of England, they say we are turning the the Bank Of England, they say we are turning the corner. What the Bank Of England, they say we are turning the corner. Turning the corner. What does he mean . What turning the corner. What does he mean . What turn turning the corner. What does he mean . What turn a turning the corner. What does he mean . What turn a happy turning the corner. What does he i mean . What turn a happy mccaw turning the corner. What does he mean . What turn a happy mccaw and mean . What turn a happy mccaw and how we turn . If you stick around for a few more hours we should get confirmation short lived recession and on top of that, imminently, we should hear it as back down to the 2 target and the question comes, why arent we cutting Interest Rates . ,. , why arent we cutting Interest Rates . ,. ,. ,. , rates . There are some people who are ust not rates . There are some people who are just not sure rates . There are some people who are just not sure it rates . There are some people who are just not sure it is rates . There are some people who are just not sure it is the rates . There are some people who are just not sure it is the case rates . There are some people who are just not sure it is the case but rates . There are some people who are just not sure it is the case but im just not sure it is the case but im sure just not sure it is the case but im sure andy just not sure it is the case but im sure andy has got all sorts of interesting views on that one. Nine eo le interesting views on that one. Nine eole on interesting views on that one. Nine peeple on the interesting views on that one. Ii ie people on the Monetary Policy committee. Last time around one person was in favour of a rate cut was at this time around two people were in favour of a rate cut. How would you have voted . We met i would have been cutting from some way back. Start of the year. Where would Interest Rates be it now . I back. Start of the year. Where would Interest Rates be it now . Interest rates be it now . I probably would have Interest Rates be it now . I probably would have done Interest Rates be it now . I probably would have done a Interest Rates be it now . I probably would have done a couple. Interest rates be it now . I probably would have done a couple. Four Interest Rates be it now . I probably| would have done a couple. Four and three would have done a couple. Four and three quarters would have done a couple. Four and three quarters of would have done a couple. Four and three quarters of something would have done a couple. Four and three quarters of something by would have done a couple. Four andl three quarters of something by now. A couple three quarters of something by now. A couple in three quarters of something by now. A couple in i three quarters of something by now. A couple in lam three quarters of something by now. A couple in. I am fearful three quarters of something by now. A couple in. I am fearful that, a couple in. I am fearful that, know. A couple in. I am fearful that, know. We a couple in. I am fearful that, know. We are a couple in. I am fearful that, know, we are going a couple in. I am fearful that, know, we are going to a couple in. I am fearful that, know, we are going to have. A couple in. I am fearful that, know, we are going to have a| a couple in. I am fearful that, know, we are going to have a sort of symmetric know, we are going to have a sort of Symmetric Version know, we are going to have a sort of Symmetric Version of know, we are going to have a sort of Symmetric Version of 2021. Know, we are going to have a sort of Symmetric Version of 2021. In know, we are going to have a sort of Symmetric Version of 2021. In 2021 l Symmetric Version of 2021. In 2021 the bank Symmetric Version of 2021. In 2021 the bank was Symmetric Version of 2021. In 2021 the bank was six Symmetric Version of 2021. In 2021 the bank was six months Symmetric Version of 2021. In 2021 the bank was six months too Symmetric Version of 2021. In 2021 the bank was six months too late i Symmetric Version of 2021. In 2021| the bank was six months too late in raising the bank was six months too late in raising rates the bank was six months too late in raising rates when the bank was six months too late in raising rates when inflation the bank was six months too late in raising rates when inflation picked i raising rates when inflation picked up raising rates when inflation picked up and raising rates when inflation picked up and i raising rates when inflation picked up and i think raising rates when inflation picked up and i think this raising rates when inflation picked up and i think this time raising rates when inflation picked up and i think this time it raising rates when inflation picked up and i think this time it risks up and i think this time it risks being up and i think this time it risks being six up and i think this time it risks being six months up and i think this time it risks being six months too up and i think this time it risks being six months too late up and i think this time it risks being six months too late in i up and i think this time it risks. Being six months too late in going back down being six months too late in going back down again being six months too late in going back down again as being six months too late in going back down again as inflation being six months too late in going back down again as Inflation Goali being six months too late in going i back down again as Inflation Goal so i would back down again as Inflation Goal so i would have back down again as Inflation Goal so i would have been back down again as Inflation Goal so i would have been on back down again as Inflation Goal so i would have been on my back down again as Inflation Goal so i would have been on my bike back down again as Inflation Goal so i would have been on my bike startl i would have been on my bike start of the i would have been on my bike start of the year i would have been on my bike start of the year of the year. What is the structural thin that of the year. What is the structural thing that means of the year. What is the structural thing that means the of the year. What is the structural thing that means the bank of the year. What is the structural thing that means the bank of of the year. What is the structural thing that means the Bank Of England is going to make that mistake again . We are all prisoners of history fighting we are all prisoners of history fighting the we are all prisoners of history fighting the last we are all prisoners of History Fighting The Last War we are all prisoners of History Fighting The Last War and we are all prisoners of History Fighting The Last War And I fighting the last war and i understand fighting the last war and i understand the fighting the last war and i understand the concern. Fighting the last war and i. Understand the concern with fighting the last war and i understand the concern with the inflationary understand the concern with the Inflationary Kit understand the concern with the Inflationary Kit having understand the concern with the Inflationary Kit having got understand the concern with the Inflationary Kit having got out i understand the concern with the Inflationary Kit having got out of| Inflationary Kit having got out of the bag Inflationary Kit having got out of the bag but Inflationary Kit having got out of the bag but they Inflationary Kit having got out of the bag but they want Inflationary Kit having got out of the bag but they want to Inflationary Kit having got out of the bag but they want to be Inflationary Kit having got out of the bag but they want to be doubly, tribally the bag but they want to be doubly, tribally sure the bag but they want to be doubly, tribally sure that the bag but they want to be doubly, tribally sure that it the bag but they want to be doubly, tribally sure that it is the bag but they want to be doubly, tribally sure that it is back the bag but they want to be doubly, tribally sure that it is back in tribally sure that it is back in before tribally sure that it is back in before cutting tribally sure that it is back in before cutting rates tribally sure that it is back in before cutting rates but, tribally sure that it is back in before cutting rates but, actually, the corner before cutting rates but, actually, the corner on before cutting rates but, actually, The Corner On Inflation before cutting rates but, actually, The Corner On Inflation was The Corner On Inflation was decisively The Corner On Inflation was decisively turned The Corner On Inflation was decisively turned the The Corner On Inflation was decisively turned the start| The Corner On Inflation was. Decisively turned the start of The Corner On Inflation was decisively turned the start of the year decisively turned the start of the year were decisively turned the start of the year were going decisively turned the start of the year. Were going to decisively turned the start of the year. Were going to find decisively turned the start of the i year. Were going to find probably inflation year. Were going to find probably inflation below year. Were going to find probably inflation below target. Year. Were going to find probably inflation below target. And year. Were going to find probably inflation below target. And the i inflation below target. And the Economy Inflation below target. And the economy still, inflation below target. And the economy still, you inflation below target. And the economy still, you know, inflation below target. And the economy still, you know, stumbling sideways, economy still, you know, stumbling sideways, really~ economy still, you know, stumbling sideways, really. Whatever economy still, you know, stumbling sideways, really. Whatever comes i economy still, you know, stumblingl sideways, really. Whatever comes of the gdp sideways, really. Whatever comes of the gdp number sideways, really. Whatever comes of the gdp number. And sideways, really. Whatever comes of the gdp number. And that sideways, really. Whatever comes of the gdp number. And that is sideways, really. Whatever comes of the gdp number. And that is a sideways, really. Whatever comes of| the gdp number. And that is a recipe for cutting, the gdp number. And that is a recipe for cutting, hot the gdp number. And that is a recipe for cutting, not holding. The gdp number. And that is a recipe for cutting, not holding. But the gdp number. And that is a recipe for cutting, not holding. But i for cutting, not holding. But i think for cutting, not holding. But i think weve for cutting, not holding. But i think weve been for cutting, not holding. But i think weve been in for cutting, not holding. But i think weve been in touch for cutting, not holding. But ii think weve been in touch slow for cutting, not holding. But i think weve been in touch slow in lroth think weve been in touch slow in both directions. Think weve been in touch slow in both directions. Think weve been in touch slow in both directions. What are economist doinu on both directions. What are economist doing on the both directions. What are economist doing on the other both directions. What are economist doing on the other hand . Both directions. What are economist doing on the other hand . What both directions. What are economist doing on the other hand . What is i both directions. What are economistj doing on the other hand . What is on the other hand . The other hand . Welcome you got those seven the other hand . Welcome you got those seven people the other hand . Welcome you got those seven people saying, the other hand . Welcome you got those seven people saying, hang l the other hand . Welcome you got l those seven people saying, hang on the other hand . Welcome you got those seven people saying, hang on a minute those seven people saying, hang on a minute. There are still those risks out there minute. There are still those risks out there on minute. There are still those risks out there on the horizon. Inflation fuelled out there on the horizon. Inflation fuelled by out there on the horizon. Inflation fuelled by spending a large lead. That is fuelled by spending a large lead. That is at fuelled by spending a large lead. That is at 6 , isnt it . That is at 6 , isnt it . Weight Inflation Higher that is at 6 , isnt it . Weight Inflation Higher than that is at 6 , isnt it . Weight Inflation Higher than some that is at 6 , isnt it . Weight i Inflation Higher than some would like to Inflation Higher than some would like to see but outpacing inflation for a like to see but outpacing inflation for a lot like to see but outpacing inflation for a lot of like to see but outpacing inflation for a lot of people now which is a bil for a lot of people now which is a big relief for a lot of people now which is a big relief but it is really curious because big relief but it is really curious because looking at that voting record. Because looking at that voting record, and i was thinking at this today, record, and i was thinking at this today, we record, and i was thinking at this today, we are always kind of thinking today, we are always kind of thinking that there are insiders at the Bank Thinking that there are insiders at the bank of the panel and the external the bank of the panel and the external members and you always think external members and you always think of external members and you always think of those internal members as moving think of those internal members as moving as think of those internal members as moving as a think of those internal members as moving as a pack and then we saw one breakaway moving as a pack and then we saw one breakaway today and vote for a cut. How usually is that . It is breakaway today and vote for a cut. How usually is that . How usually is that . It is more ical how usually is that . It is more typical that how usually is that . It is more typical that insiders how usually is that . It is more typical that insiders vote how usually is that . It is more i typical that insiders vote together rather typical that insiders vote together rather than typical that insiders vote together ratherthan apart, typical that insiders vote together rather than apart, that typical that insiders vote together rather than apart, that is typical that insiders vote together rather than apart, that is true. Typical that insiders vote togetherl rather than apart, that is true. But it is not rather than apart, that is true. But it is not a rather than apart, that is true. But it is not a question. Rather than apart, that is true. But it is not a question. When rather than apart, that is true. But it is not a question. When i rather than apart, that is true. But it is not a question. When i was. Rather than apart, that is true. But it is not a question. When i was on the committee it is not a question. When i was on the Committee Back it is not a question. When i was on the Committee Back in it is not a question. When i was on the Committee Back in 2021, it is not a question. When i was on the Committee Back in 2021, that. The Committee Back in 2021, that period. The Committee Back in 2021, that period. I the Committee Back in 2021, that period. Iwas the Committee Back in 2021, that period, i was the the Committee Back in 2021, that period, i was the one the Committee Back in 2021, that period, i was the one outside the Committee Back in 2021, that period, i was the one outside ofi period, i was the one outside of voting period, i was the one outside of voting for period, i was the one outside of voting for rate period, i was the one outside of voting for rate rises period, i was the one outside of voting for rate rises and period, i was the one outside of voting for rate rises and the period, i was the one outside of. Voting for rate rises and the eight others voting for rate rises and the eight others were voting for rate rises and the eight others were voting voting for rate rises and the eight others were voting to voting for rate rises and the eight others were voting to stick voting for rate rises and the eight others were voting to stick so voting for rate rises and the eight others were voting to stick so it l voting for rate rises and the eight| others were voting to stick so it is not out others were voting to stick so it is not out of others were voting to stick so it is not out of the others were voting to stick so it is not out of the question, others were voting to stick so it is not out of the question, it others were voting to stick so it is not out of the question, it has not out of the question, it has happened not out of the question, it has happened before. Not out of the question, it has happened before. Not out of the question, it has hauened before. ~. ,. , happened before. What is happening with mortgage happened before. What is happening with Mortgage Rates . Happened before. What is happening with Mortgage Rates . Reading happened before. What is happening with Mortgage Rates . Reading my i with Mortgage Rates . Reading my financial pages this morning i could see that some mortgages for some time buyers were going back to 5 and we thought they had come down from that so what is going on there. We saw some in the markets going oh, my goodness, theyre having a wobble live in my goodness, theyre having a wobble live in the my goodness, theyre having a wobble live in the us and if they are delaying live in the us and if they are delaying there, we are delaying here so we delaying there, we are delaying here so we saw delaying there, we are delaying here so we saw that it is great, actually, so we saw that it is great, actually, and expectations between some actually, and expectations between some in actually, and expectations between some in the Financial Markets and economists are saying evidence suggest economists are saying evidence suggest that our fundamentals mean we should suggest that our fundamentals mean we should be cutting pretty soon. People we should be cutting pretty soon. People in we should be cutting pretty soon. People in the market is going, no, theyre people in the market is going, no, theyre doing that over there therefore wait a bit. Mortgage rates are tied to is why you saw them sort of bubbling are tied to is why you saw them sort of bubbling up a little bit and that is why of bubbling up a little bit and that is why we of bubbling up a little bit and that is why we are seeing the pain that borrowers is why we are seeing the pain that borrowers are going through the dub is fascinating because we all know all that is fascinating because we all know all that turning the corner and coming all that turning the corner and coming up to the selection, how are people coming up to the selection, how are people going to feel and i was talking people going to feel and i was talking to someone and his take was this is talking to someone and his take was this is the talking to someone and his take was this is the governments fault was that the this is the governments fault was that the government is letting the bank of that the government is letting the Bank Of England put up Interest Rates Bank Of England put up Interest Rates. They put us up in covid and the energy rates. They put us up in covid and the energy prices, which raises the question the energy prices, which raises the question why theyre not doing it now question why theyre not doing it now. , ,. , question why theyre not doing it now. ,. ,. ,. Now. That person is not not correct. Politically they now. That person is not not correct. Politically they feel now. That person is not not correct. Politically they feel how now. That person is not not correct. Politically they feel how they now. That person is not not correct. Politically they feel how they feel i politically they feel how they feel but what would you say to that voter, andy . I but what would you say to that voter. Andy . But what would you say to that voter, and . ,. ,. , voter, andy . I would explain that sto to voter, andy . I would explain that story to them voter, andy . I would explain that story to them. You voter, andy . I would explain that story to them. You know, voter, andy . I would explain that story to them. You know, we voter, andy . I would explain that| story to them. You know, we have gone story to them. You know, we have gone through story to them. You know, we have gone through what story to them. You know, we have gone through what a story to them. You know, we have gone through what a couple story to them. You know, we have gone through what a couple of story to them. You know, we have l gone through what a couple of years now of gone through what a couple of years now of the gone through what a couple of years now of the economy gone through what a couple of years now of the Economy Crabbing now of the Economy Crabbing sideways now of the Economy Crabbing sideways. The now of the Economy Crabbing sideways. The surprising now of the Economy Crabbing. Sideways. The surprising thing, actually, sideways. The surprising thing, actually, is sideways. The surprising thing, actually, is that sideways. The surprising thing, actually, is that it sideways. The surprising thing, actually, is that it did sideways. The surprising thing, actually, is that it did not sideways. The surprising thing, actually, is that it did not do. Sideways. The surprising thing, actually, is that it did not do ai actually, is that it did not do a lot worse actually, is that it did not do a lot worse than actually, is that it did not do a lot worse than that. Actually, is that it did not do a lot worse than that. We actually, is that it did not do a lot worse than that. We have i actually, is that it did not do a lot worse than that. We have seen a massive lot worse than that. We have seen a massive squeeze lot worse than that. We have seen a massive squeeze on lot worse than that. We have seen a massive squeeze on pupils lot worse than that. We have seen a massive squeeze on pupils pay massive squeeze on pupils pay packets massive squeeze on pupils pay packets as massive squeeze on pupils pay packets as the massive squeeze on pupils pay packets as the result massive squeeze on pupils pay packets as the result of massive squeeze on pupils pay. Packets as the result of inflation. Expected packets as the result of inflation. Expected the packets as the result of inflation. Expected the economy packets as the result of inflation. Expected the economy to packets as the result of inflation. Expected the economy to be expected the economy to be contracting expected the economy to be contracting sharply expected the economy to be contracting sharply and expected the economy to be contracting sharply and for. Expected the economy to be contracting sharply and for spending to be contracting contracting sharply and for spending to be contracting sharply contracting sharply and for spending to be contracting sharply and contracting sharply and for spending to be contracting sharply and it to be contracting sharply and it would to be contracting sharply and it would have to be contracting sharply and it would have done to be contracting sharply and it would have done where to be contracting sharply and it would have done where it to be contracting sharply and it would have done where it not i to be contracting sharply and it. Would have done where it not for to be contracting sharply and it would have done where it not for two things. Would have done where it not for two things. Won would have done where it not for two things. Won the would have done where it not for two things, won the support would have done where it not for two things, won the support from would have done where it not for two things, won the support from the things, won the support from the government, things, won the support from the government, to things, won the support from the government, to households things, won the support from the government, to households andl government, to households and businesses. Government, to households and businesses, that government, to households and businesses, that support government, to households and businesses, that support has i government, to households and. Businesses, that support has been the second businesses, that support has been the second thing businesses, that support has been the second thing is businesses, that support has been the second thing is households the second thing is households running the second thing is households running down the second thing is households running down their the second thing is households running down their savings. The second thing is households running down their savings. To| running down their savings. To protect running down their savings. To protect their running down their savings. To protect their spending running down their savings. To protect their spending in running down their savings. To protect their spending in the l running down their savings. To. Protect their spending in the face of contracting protect their spending in the face of contracting incomes. Protect their spending in the face of contracting incomes. So protect their spending in the face of contracting incomes. So we. Protect their spending in the face of contracting incomes. So we cannot be an of contracting incomes. So we cannot be an endless of contracting incomes. So we cannot be an endless life support of contracting incomes. So we cannot be an endless life support mode. Of contracting incomes. So we cannot be an endless life support mode. I. Be an endless life support mode. I think be an endless life support mode. I think maybe be an endless life support mode. I think maybe where be an endless life support mode. I think maybe where the be an endless life support mode. I. Think maybe where the government, and now think maybe where the government, and now with think maybe where the government, and now with inflation think maybe where the government, and now with inflation having think maybe where the government, and now with inflation having come i and now with inflation having come back, and now with inflation having come back, mentioning and now with inflation having come back, mentioning real and now with inflation having come back, mentioning real pay, and now with inflation having comel back, mentioning real pay, inflation is now back, mentioning real pay, inflation is now picking back, mentioning real pay, inflation is now picking up back, mentioning real pay, inflation is now picking up. That back, mentioning real pay, inflation is now picking up. That support back, mentioning real pay, inflation is now picking up. That support is. Is now picking up. That support is not needed is now picking up. That support is not needed. What is now picking up. That support is not needed. What we is now picking up. That support is not needed. What we do is now picking up. That support is not needed. What we do need, ii not needed. What we do need, i think. Not needed. What we do need, i think. Is not needed. What we do need, i think. Is to not needed. What we do need, i think, is to reduce not needed. What we do need, i think, is to reduce the not needed. What we do need, i| think, is to reduce the restrictive stance think, is to reduce the restrictive stance of think, is to reduce the restrictive stance of monetary think, is to reduce the restrictive stance of Monetary Policy. Think, is to reduce the restrictive. Stance of Monetary Policy. Because, ii l ht stance of Monetary Policy. Because, right now. Stance of Monetary Policy. Because, right now. Though stance of Monetary Policy. Because, right now, though the stance of Monetary Policy. Because, right now, though the Economy Stance of Monetary Policy. Because, right now, though the economy mayj stance of Monetary Policy. Because, i right now, though the economy may be starting right now, though the economy may be starting to right now, though the economy may be starting to edge right now, though the economy may be starting to edge up. Right now, though the economy may be starting to edge up, it right now, though the economy may be starting to edge up, it is right now, though the economy may be starting to edge up, it is still starting to edge up, it is still suhpar starting to edge up, it is still suhpar growth starting to edge up, it is still subpar growth on starting to edge up, it is still subpar growth on any starting to edge up, it is still subpar growth on any metric| subpar growth on any metric imaginable dharshini, just kind of the basics here of. If you are watching, about to either remortgage or get your First Mortgage and you are watching the news to see what the Bank Of England does about Interest Rates, what actually is the precise link between the bank rate and what the bank would say to person x buying their house . You mean what is the link between the Mortgage Rate and what the Bank Of England is up to . Yes, if they cut rates in a couple of months time, does that mean the rate on your mortgage will go down . Yes, but in the meantime, if they are expected to cut rates sooner than previously thought, which is the case now, and it does take a bit of time, you are likely to see those rates starting to drift down. Which of course is very good news for those people, and we still have got, we reckon, about a million households left to remortgage over the course of this year. And we should not forget those First Time Buyers who are sitting on their hands right now thinking, are things going to get better . And also, there is buy to let landlords as well and renters, all those people who are sitting out there, anxiously awaiting. We should see some movement in the coming weeks, even if we dont see the Bank Of England doing anything for a month or two. How much depends on the bank. Right, andy, you did a speech at the rsa, the organisation of which you are the chief exec now, on wednesday night. Lots of ideas in it but the main one was, we arejust being a bit, like, we are not being brave enough, all of us, whether we go and get a newjob, let alone set up a new company. I think thats right, adam. That was the gist of the story. Glad i read that speech right the world is a risky place, lets be clear. And an instinctive response to risk is to hunker down. But we know if Everyone Hunkers down and takes no risk, then nothing entrepreneurial happens and the result is the sort of soggy Growth Picture we have had for the better part of the 15 years and counting. We have right now, look at what government is doing, what companies are doing what Financial Firms are doing. Everyone is shying away from bearing risk, from making those investments that we know are the wellspring of growth tomorrow. 100 years ago, john maynard keynes, the famous economist, spoke about the paradox of thrift, right . It is a paradox because thrift we think of being a good thing. But of course if everyone is thrifty and saves, no one is spending, and the result is, collectively, calamitous. We have a bit of that going on right now. The world is a risky place, lets hunker down, and the result is a bad situation made worse. What i thought was so intriguing, i totally see that argument when it comes to business and innovation and research and development, and you have got to spend some cash to discover the new wonder drug and maybe it wont be a wonder drug after all, but the fact you are saying that kind of everyone should be doing it. You werent instructing, telling people to quit theirjobs today but there was a bit of that. Like people need to get used to the idea that if they want a pay rise, maybe they should not ask their boss for a pay rise but maybe they should quit and go and get a job somewhere else. That is the way to get a pay rise. And we have lost that spirit. I mean, you are speaking to someone who has only moved job once so i know the fastest way to a pay rise is not to stick, it is to twist, and thats true. But in terms of taking the lead on that, adam and dharshini, it is for government. That is also what keynes said 100 years ago. As the agent best able to bear risk, as the agent with the longest horizons, it is for them to step up and to make those investments in ways that would then encourage others in the private sector to follow suit. And thats sorely what we need now, and thats what the current fiscal rules are preventing government from doing. Yeah. So this idea that debt has to be falling by the end of a five year kind of rolling period, which always strikes me as a terrible way to manage your own finances. Laughter. But it seems to be kind of the accepted way for governments. I mean, whats the better set of. Without getting too nerdy, whats kind of like a better set of fiscal rules that would help a future government get things revved up again . Well, a couple of things, really. I mean, one would be five years is far too short for any investment thats big and transformational for the uk. And dear heavens, we need investment thats big and transformational for the uk. You know, both hs2 for the government, and the green prosperity plan for labour, were casualties, thin sliced by dint of those rules. Yeah, the 28 billion that became less. So lets stretch the horizons beyond five years. Thats arbitrary and too short. But most importantly, not all borrowing is created equally. Borrowing thats investment for tomorrow, that creates assets. Schools or hospitals or roads or railways should be recorded and recognised in how we set our rules. So lets not look atjust debt, but the assets that government creates as well whats sometimes called net worth. And i get that people are still a bit scared by the mini budget and what that did to bond markets. But the truth is that what Financial Markets want first and foremost from the uk is a good growth story, and if the route to that is government borrowing, they will take that in their stride. But, dharshini, whats interesting about that is thatjeremy hunts not talking about changing his fiscal rules anytime soon, and Rachel Reeves has signed up to very, very similar ones. Yeah, which i find intriguing because, you know, when you listen to what youre saying and what the economy needs and we talk about investment, investment, investment, productivity and you think that that makes sense. But im really intrigued by what youre saying about risk. And, you know, as someone who, my memory is ingrained by the idea of covering wall street when it all fell apart in 2006, 2007. Because of too much risk. Is that when we saw that change in attitude from governments, from the private sector, when we all went, this must never happen again . And has that translated into the way we see everything now and, therefore, were shying away from opportunities . Thats whats happened . Quite so. We are all, and i am still, having been part of it at the time, psychologically scarred by that experience. We know after the great crash of � 29, that had a Scarring Effect on peoples Risk Appetite and psychologies for a generation. And its still with us now. Its framed how we think about our fiscal choices. About our regulatory choices, how we think about consumer protection, how we think about corporate governance. And its done with the best of intentions, of course, its instinctive to want to mitigate or manage risk, except when its not. And now is the time for not. We had too much risk then, we have too little risk bearing now. And thats why we need to turn turtle on how we think about our regulation, how we think about our rules, fiscal and more broadly. So basically, i dont know if Rachel Reeves was in the front row of the speech, but im sure if she wasnt, she would have read it. Were you hoping that she reads it, hears it and goes, 0h, actually, i need to be a bit bolder on the economy, im being far too cautious here . Well, i think the message is not just for politicians. I think theres messages there for the private sector as well, certainly messages for regulators. And as a regulator in my former life, you know, im partly responsible for some of this stuff. Right . The rules for banks, the rules for insurers, which i think have been starving British Companies of the financial fuel they need to grow, has been part of the problem. It was part of the solution, in a way, in 2009, its part of the problem now. Its ridiculous that there are more canadian, australian and dutch Pensioners Investing in british businesses than there are british Pensioners Investing in british business. That needs to change. Its ridiculous that theres been no net lending to companies by british banks over the past several years. That needs to change. We will not grow unless it changes. So it needs to be broadly based. It needs to involve finance. It needs to involve companies outside of finance. It needs to involve our government in a National Plan for growth and regeneration, because looking for someone else to lead will mean that no one leads and we remain stuck in the mud, as we have done for now, what, 15 years, weve been stood still. Also, i love the bit in your speech when you said, if i want to cheer myself up, i get as far away as possible from westminster. In other words, you go and hang out with some mayors, some newly elected mayors, or re elected mayors. Well, the truth is, i mean, despite all ive said, im actually strangely optimistic about the uk, because i see huge amounts of potential Latent Energy in the uks regions and nations. I visit them a lot now. And there are clusters of brilliant businesses, brilliant universities, brilliant people, scattered across the four corners of the uk. And if they could be given, you know, enabled to become marshals of their own destiny, the uk could fly. So of all the things we might do, empowering and, indeed, with a bit of money put the mayor the way of local leaders, wed have a National Growth plan built from the bottom up, turning those brilliant clusters and institutions into super clusters. Thats what we need. We know how to do it. Yeah. Its about execution. So interesting. Dharshini, thank you very much. And, andy, thanks to you, too. Thank you, adam. Thank you, dharshini. So thats the sort of view from the city. Talking of views from the city, why did it take you so long to cover that short distance from there to here . So i got lost. So ive. How long have you lived here, 23 years . Something like that, on and off. We moved here in the same year. We did, indeed. In 2001. Not been here every year since, but most of them. And, yeah, i got lost. So the thing is, you know, theres the circle line in the middle of the london underground, yellow line for the people who are familiar with london more familiar than me and the whole thing about east and west. The whole east and west thing in a circle, particularly when youre on the edge of the circle, where it kind of goes south. Anyway, we stood on one platform for quite a while and then realised we were going the wrong way, or would get on the wrong way if we got on the train, and then went to the other side. So sorry, yeah, i got lost in london about 15 minutes away from where i work. See, we can even make great Podcasting Content over you getting on the wrong platform. We can find some political significance in it. Anyway, talking about political significance, its the day after Natalie Elphicke magically morphed from being a conservative mp and some people say a very right wing one, whatever that really means to becoming a new labour mp, although shes not going to fight her seat at the next election. Isnt It Interesting that that story very quickly went from, whoa, what a political bombshell, to, was this a good idea for labour to sign her up . Yeah, and theres a couple of things. Theres the thing that always happens with defections, which is that theres a tribal excitement at luring someone from the other side. And then theres some within the tribe who regard it as somehow a bit sort of, i dont know, kind of dirty or discombobulating, or not quite right. Because how can you possibly be labour if you were conservative . But the twist with the Natalie Elphicke defection, yes, theres some who might point to elements of her politics that they regard as on the right. I think theres other bits that you can point to. The left right stuff only goes, is only of so much use. And theres some stuff, particularly around housing, thats been her sort of lifelong or adulthood long professional interest where, actually, her views pretty much, and long have, arguably tessellated with that of the labour party. But crucially is this particular element of her recent back story, really, which is that her ex husband former mp for the same seat, who was convicted of Sexual Assaults she said in an interview in the sun best part of four years ago that he was attractive and he was attractive to women, and that perhaps that made him an easy target. And that had led some labour mps to be upset, furious, angry at what they saw as victim blaming. Anyway, the reason i was in the City Of London was to talk to Natalie Elphicke, who was at an event there, and heres what she told me. About that period of my life, it was an incredibly difficult and stressful period, but i do recognise it was much worse for all of those people, all those women who had to give evidence at that time. And so i would like to take the opportunity to apologise to them. Will that reassure her new colleagues enough . I think itll do quite a lot, actually, to take the sting out of it. So i speak to a lot of them privately and they said they hated the kind of language that shed used, but they said she should have an opportunity to explain it and apologise, and shes apologised. And no doubt in private conversations with plenty of them, shell seek to explain it in terms of, as she was saying there, how difficult a period in her life it was. And it was quite striking talking to her, actually, it wasnt a normal political conversation. Of course it wasnt. Youre talking about something deeply, deeply personal. So i think it will go some way, actually, to doing that. And then the Conversation Shifts back to policy stuff. Now, finally, one of the days when you werent here, i launched our new marketing campaign. Oh, yes, which i got wind of when i was a recipient. When you became in the middle of it, without knowing what it was. Yes. And basically, its because katya adler who we did brexitcast with shes got a podcast of her own now called the global story, and its got a much bigger budget and Marketing Budget than we could ever dream of. Ican imagine. They had a billboard in times square. What . Yes. And so i thought, what could we do . Whats the Newscast Version of that . And it actually turned out to be newscasters taking pictures of themselves with our logo, at their own favourite landmarks around the world. So what better way to mark that than by doing a quiz. Terrific, terrific. To see if you can guess the landmarks . 0h, right. So were basically now doing marketing for the marketing campaign, which is about a marketing campaign. Right. First one, this is mrs active. Hello, mrs active. Shes very, very active. So there is mrs active with your smartphone and the newscast logo, and something that is either the eiffel tower or the blackpool tower. And lets, ooh. Im thinking. All ill say is mrs actives very well travelled. In a southerly direction. Oh, its got to be paris. Correct i was thinking, i was wondering, ooh. I might have gone blackpool, otherwise. Right. This is. Oh, look at that . Daniel. Now, hang on a minute. Hello, daniel. Now, this is this is what i like to see, because this is the north of england. Can ijust have a look at this . Because im thinking, is it dales or is it lakes . Its lakes. And i am thinking its lakes, yeah, because the hills are bigger than the dales. Lake district. Beautiful. Oh, thats manna from heaven, that is. That was hallin fell, in the Lake District. Terrific. Lovely. Well done, daniel. Brilliant. Have you thought about going into, like, open source, like Satellite Photo Interpretation . I think youd have quite a skill for that. I dont know, youve had to nudge me in both directions. Right, this is stephen. 0h, hang on a minute. That cant be stephen. Thats got to be theresa may, running through a field of wheat. There is a field of wheat there, but you cant see stephen himself. But there is a famous landmark. Is that mount fuji . Correct. Is it mount fuji . Yeah. I thought it was the Lake District again and i was like, no, thats definitely mount fuji. Weve made our way to japan. Right. This is terrific. This one is from total landscaping, one of the users on discord. Thanks for getting in touch, total, if i may use your first name . Homemade newscast logo, diy. Now, hang on a minute. This is my new area of expertise, because its the underground in london, but i cant. Oh, yeah, its the london underground, but i cant work out which station because i cant read the sign on the station. Its quite out of the centre of london, i think, that, but ive no idea where. Its pinner. Pinner. Thats well out. And do you know the political significance recently of Pinner Tube Station . No, no, idont. Susan hall. I wondered if it might be susan hall. Who was then the tory candidate for mayor, who went on to lose, some might say ungraciously. Is that her Neck Of The Woods . No, its where she famously lost her 0yster card. Oh, yes. And there was the whole question about whether or not shed been pickpocketed. Yes. So you see, you did. You did remember. I was aware of the story. Yes. There we go. Finally, you must remember. You must remember this. They famously sang. I do remember this, outside the Scottish Parliament in edinburgh, which is where i first encountered the Viral Marketing Campaign that. And tamsin. And tamsin came up with her, with her. In a plastic wallet, newscast logo. That was shortly after id inadvertently made a fool of myself on the 6 00 news. Oh, yeah. News goblin. Yeah. By being on the telly by accident. Yeah. And james cook there, so she got two for the price of one, and friends of the podcast. Exactly. Brilliant. Well done, i think. Oh, i didnt keep track of your scores. I think it was full marks. It was pretty good. Apart from pinner, you didnt get pinner. I didnt get pinner. And it kind of, you know, a bit vague on the Lake District. The good thing about that, though, is hearing from you. We just love hearing whatever youre doing. You dont have to hold up our logo to get in touch with us. You can get in touch with an observation about the news or about this podcast, or something you want to talk about, or a question you want us to find the answer to, and you can email us anytime. 0k, well, thats how email works newscast at bbc. Co. Uk. Pinner underground station versus times square. Weve won. I mean, sorry, katya. Exactly. You know . Weve been you in the viral marketing stakes. Anyway, chris, thanks for making it here eventually and for dashing across london and eventually going in the right direction. I was glad to turn up in the end. And thank you very much for tuning in to this episode of newscast. Well be back with another one very soon. Bye. Bye bye. Newscast. Newscast, from the bbc. Hello, lets start with the space forecast. There is a very high chance of the sky is being lit up once again by the aurora borealis. Perfect conditions for many of us with clear skies, and the advice is to keep watching the sky from late evening onwards. But you need to get your eyes used to that dark sky, because the aurora isnt quite as bright as some of those photographs suggest. This is the probability of seeing the aurora. The reds indicate 90 100 probability. And further south, 50 50. Because it will be right above our heads, even people in the further south area, you might even still see it somewhere along the horizon. Here is the forecast, dry for most today, but scattered thunderstorms on the way, some could be torrential. The forecast for the rest of the day and into the second half of the afternoon, some scattered showers, it may be some cracks of thunder in the forecast for the highlands, maybe one or two for the lowlands and southern uplands. But on the whole, a sunny and very warm day for many of us, temperatures in the low to mid 20s in some spots. Even coastal areas will see temperatures of around 20 or more. The winds are very light. If you are unlucky you might be under some of the thicker shrouding the north sea coast. This evening, aurora time, not completely clear, so fingers crossed it wont be too cloudy. The aurora could hang around for a good hour or two, so there is plenty of opportunity to go out again to try to catch a glimpse of that light spectacle. Remember, it is not quite so vivid, you have to get used to it. High pressure slips away on a sunday, that has been on top of us giving us giving us the settled weather just in time for the aurora. On sunday we start to see storms developing across western parts of the uk, some will be torrential, the chance of some Flash Flooding out towards the west. But temperatures tomorrow perhaps as high as 26. Bye bye. Live from london. This is bbc news. The Israeli Military says about 300,000 palestinians have left the city of rafah since theyve been ordered to evacuate on monday. But the un warns theyre moving to an area which lacks basic infrastructure. These are the live pictures in malmo, sweden, where more than 10,000 people are protesting over israels participation in the Eurovision Song Contest. Iam i am alive outside the arena in malmo, where in a few hours time, the grand final of the Eurovision Song Contest will take place. There are protests, controversy and a headache for the european ebu who have organised the event. We will have organised the event. We will have all the latest in a few minutes. Nearly 2,000 people have been evacuated from Ukraines Kharkiv region russia says its forces have captured