analysis provided by the society of conservative lawyers in a paper and i declare my interest as chair of executive written by lawyers both experienced in international law. it is best to go to people with experience in the international law field rather than other field, experience in the international law field rather than otherfield, they conclude as i do that although there are areas which certainly need to be examined with care, the bill falls on the right side of the line. deeming provisions are not unprecedented as has been put out, as has already been set out. i am concerned and i hope the minister will take on and explore the situation raised by the memberfor kenilworth about how deeming provisions deal with international law o obligation because you the deem in domestic law but you can't to oust your international law obligations, that said, i think there is force i refer to the very useful analysis in the society for conservative lawyers pamphlet that in realityf conservative lawyers pamphlet that in reality f the uk were to breach international law convention, not only would all that be constitutional wrong it would collapse the scheme because rwanda has made it clear it would not be party to the scheme. i do not by the patronising attitude that says the rwandans have been put up to say that, i think they are genuine in their belief and it is important to remember that there are other countries in subject to the jurisdiction of the european convention on human rights who are reported as potentially exploring relations with rwanda. if wrap were to be party to a scheme in which the united kingdom broke international law, rwanda would inevitably forfeit any opportunity to engage with other echr country and they would withdraw, so people have to be careful what they wish for, if they go too far they will drive the rwandans out of the scheme and collapse the whole policy. the other point that is important is to bear in mind it is critical that individual rights of challenge are preserved is as my right honourable friend said. i am a conservative because i am a constitution list. and i am constitution list because i believe in the checks and balances and frankly the day the conservative party thinks that ends justify the means, and ilog nor principles of committee and think any run with single policy objective overrides the checks and ambulances, it ceases to be a conservative party inspect the sense most people would recognise it. maintaining that balance is essential, i think ministers have with great endeavour managed just to do that. but it doesn't mean, i don't like much of the wording, of the bill, when i look mr deputy speaker, at for example some parts of clause one, i am looking at clause 1—4. it recognised that parliament is sovereign... that is a gcse law statement of the blindingly obvious, if i might respectfully say, so it might best be described as oat owes, it adds nothing to the bill. pointless would be another way of pitting it. iwonder what pointless would be another way of pitting it. i wonder what that adds, that there is another passage in relation, think it is clause 2ss5. in relation to the rule the approach to interim measures under rule 35 of the strays put our court rules, that states what is the position in law any way, you only have to look at the text book to say as i did, that it is for the government that decide on rule 35 issues because they are directly to the governments not to the court. patronising to tell the court what is well within their competence to know and decide upon. so, with those reservations i will support the bill tonight, byjust say this. if it were to change in any of the safeguards that have been left in to be removed, then, my support would go. because some people would then have pushed it over the line, into the unacceptable and in myjudgment the under conservative and i would not support it. i don't believe that is the government intention so i will help them to get the bill through tonight but they must be wary of some who do not have the best of objectives towards the government's policy who might take it in wrong direction. let us not get there. it's a delight to follow the honourable gentleman. he dozen't follow through with his logic, this bill he knows perfectly well is not really acceptable, and in his heart of hearts he would like to vote against it tonight i am sure. there are five reasons to vote against this bill. first it won't work. the idea that someone who is not deterred by dangerous journey in a dinghy across the most crowded sea lane in the world, will be deterred by this flimsy piece of nonsense is just laughable. second, it will lead to protracted and expensive chaos because it sails as he says, so o close to the wind legally, that it will inevitably lead to legal challenges, and ironically enough since the ousers clauses mean they cannot by a jude kated in the since the ousers clauses mean they cannot by ajude kated in the uk court they will go to the. simultaneously they are declare on the face of the bill it is not satisfied that the bill will withstand a legal challenge based on compatibility with the european convention on human rights. that is a recipe for chaos and for expense. thirdly, the bill seeks to reverse by statute laud, a finding of fact by statute laud, a finding of fact by the highest court in the land, the supreme court. it therefore creates a legal fiction, the supreme court. it therefore creates a legalfiction, its the supreme court. it therefore creates a legal fiction, its title the safety of rwanda asylum and immigration bill gives the game away, according to bill rwanda is safe even if it isn't safe because the government through the bill says it is safe. but declaring somewhere safe doesn't make it of itself safe. you can no more change reality by law or legal dictate than you can by mere imagination, as polling brook saysin mere imagination, as polling brook says in richard ii you cannot cloy the hungry edge of appetite by bare imagination november a feast. you can't make rwanda safe by saying it. so clause two's declaration... is utterly fat use, if rwanda is now or in the future in fact safe, the provision deeming it safe is or will at that point be oat owes or reason don't but if rwanda is not now or in the future safe that is wrong in fact and therefore wrong in principle. so, clause two is either unnecessary or wrong, or both, simultaneously. fourthly, the bill establishing in uk law a new doctrine of the separation of powers as the clauses which preventjudges and tribunals from supervising the conduct of ministers in operating the policy put ministers above the law. it is not the sovereignty of parliament that the bill asserts it is the sovereignty of ministers, but fundamental to the rule of law is the idea that the crown or its modern proxy the executive, cannot act arbitrarily everybody if it uses its majority in parliament to declare it can. that would be the worst form of henry viii act equivalent to his proclamation which deemed that all the king's proclamation even though they were not approved by parliament,shall be observed as though they were made by an act of parliament. " fifthly now is not the time to undermine human rights and the rules based order, the uk relies on foreign courts and tribunals being effective. we watch events in ukraine and declare that the butchery and butcher is a war crime. who do we want to adjudicate that? an international court, we rightly lecture china about human rights abuses, and about a#3w50iding by the un convention on the law of the sea, we invoke sanctions against human rights abusers round the world. but how can we expect others to abide by the rule of law, and their human rights and other treaty obligations if we abandon them? the memberfor torridge and obligations if we abandon them? the member for torridge and west devon was right about one thing, he was wrong incidentally about 2004 because what we didn't do at that time was put in an ouster clause meaning that ministers were free to do what they want. those who think the bill should go further will get no help from this side of the house. in any of the parties on this side of the house. when it comes to committee and report stage, and as we have just heard, committee and report stage, and as we havejust heard, if committee and report stage, and as we have just heard, if the committee and report stage, and as we havejust heard, if the member for stones' demands were to be met in amendments at committee and report stage rwanda would withdraw and the member who hasjust spoken would withdraw his support for the bill. i don't know why anyone would vote for this bill, but voting for it despite knowing that it is legally offensive, or believing that it is fatally flawed in the desperate hope that the government will help you amend it is just delaying the inevitable. because the most extraordinary irony of all is that the prime minister has had to rely on the rwandan government to tell him and his mps that rwanda won't accept any law that breaches international law. rwanda, which is athlete are theically nominally democratic but is in actually a one party state, that is who is keeping us on the straight and narrow legally? just think about that before you vote for this nonsense. i was very pleased to hear his strong invocation of the fallacy that we live in a separation of powers constitution, we do not. we live in a constitution of checks and balances, we are proud tow have an independentjudiciary, independent legal profession, underpinning the rule of law which we are all equal and subject to. we also have a parliament that is supreme, the crown in parliament is the phrase, which is why like my honourable friend the memberfor which is why like my honourable friend the member for bromley i take issue with some of the wording in clause one by that is by the buy, but the principle of comety mr deputy speaker is one that we can ill—afford to overlook. i mean that mutual respect that has to be exist between the different articles of the constitution. this place is sovereign, we derive our sovereignty from the people, but we also have a responsibility to use that in the responsible way. and this is not a new challenge mr deputy speaker, previous generations have faced similar dilemmas because i am not going to stand here and minimise the emergency that we face from illegal migrant or minimise the challenge to the interwest faces from the mass migrant of people who might seek a berth like who —— life who are fleeing war—torn countries. it is a challenge for all western democracies, but challenges like that have been faced in the past, when we were at war, we had to make very difficult decisions in this parliament, to make sure that we struck the right constitutional balance between defending these islands, against dictatorship but not in a way that defended us and protected the us out of our very freedoms, our very liberty itself is at stake and the way in which he legislation has —— legislate has to be responsible, and has to be in line with that respect for our fundamental freedoms, line with that respect for our fundamentalfreedoms, and as my right honourable friend the member for torridge and west devon said there is a fundamental truth here, that we cannot avoid. and that is if this bill is amended. studio: we will step away from that debate in the house of commons on the rwanda bill. the home secretary james cleverly opened the bilby saying it was an innovative and humane solution. labour's yvette cooper said the bill had become a proxy for the deep civil war? the tory party. it comes ahead of a vote tonight as rishi sunak tries to persuade tory mps to back his flagship plan, you can continue to watch by scanning the qr code you can see there on the right—hand side of your screen or switch over to bbc parliament. do stay with us here on bbc news for verified live coming up next. with the law in the courts would respect parliament was my decision. live from london, this is bbc news. rishi sunak ahead of a crunch vote tonight on his rwanda policy. these are the live pictures from the house of commons where mps are debating bed bill. we will bring you the latest. any draft resolution is excited to be announced shortly at the un climate summit after the backlash against plans that made no mention of phasing out fossil fuels. the bombardment of gaza continues as a un chief says civilians there are enduring hell on earth. turkey suspects all domestic football after a referee is punched at a game by the president of super league club. welcome to the programme where we bring you three hours of breaking stories and check out the truth behind them. we begin this hour as there arejust hours behind them. we begin this hour as there are just hours to go until britain's prime minister faces a knife edge food in parliament on his flagship bill which is designed to send a summer migrants who arrive in the uk in small boats to rwanda. the policy has proved controversial and it is dividing opinion in the conservative party. some of his mps feeling the bill does not go far enough. others argue it could violate international law. this morning the prime minister has been working harder to shore up support for the bill. britain's climate minster has even left the cop summit
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