consequence of that would be a firmer, more economically damaging lockdown in the future and as a trained economist, the second round impact of a decision is what economics is all about and i can get them to see, it was deeply frustrating, it was against the economic interest and as well as against the health interest to avoid the action that was necessary. the prime minister saw it as both, and he felt very keenly, the instincts on both sides. in he felt very keenly, the instincts on both sides.— he felt very keenly, the instincts on both sides. , ., ., on both sides. in your book, for the 20 26th of — on both sides. in your book, for the 20 26th of august, _ on both sides. in your book, for the 20 26th of august, it _ on both sides. in your book, for the 20 26th of august, it reports - on both sides. in your book, for the 20 26th of august, it reports to - on both sides. in your book, for the 20 26th of august, it reports to be | 20 26th of august, it reports to be a diary— 20 26th of august, it reports to be a diary entry— 20 26th of august, it reports to be a diary entry but— 20 26th of august, it reports to be a diary entry but we _ 20 26th of august, it reports to be a diary entry but we now— 20 26th of august, it reports to be a diary entry but we now know - 20 26th of august, it reports to be i a diary entry but we now know these are hot— a diary entry but we now know these are hot diery— a diary entry but we now know these are not diary entries. _ a diary entry but we now know these are not diary entries. [— a diary entry but we now know these are not diary entries.— are not diary entries. i was clear when i published _ are not diary entries. i was clear when i published it. _ are not diary entries. i was clear when i published it. from - are not diary entries. i was clear when i published it. from all. are not diary entries. i was clear| when i published it. from all our efforts to avoid _ when i published it. from all our efforts to avoid chaotic - when i published it. from all our efforts to avoid chaotic lurching, i efforts to avoid chaotic lurching, the prime — efforts to avoid chaotic lurching, the prime minister— efforts to avoid chaotic lurching, the prime minister has - efforts to avoid chaotic lurching, the prime minister has veered . efforts to avoid chaotic lurching, l the prime minister has veered off. do you _ the prime minister has veered off. do you recall — the prime minister has veered off. do you recall writing _ the prime minister has veered off. do you recall writing that - the prime minister has veered off. do you recall writing that in - the prime minister has veered off. do you recall writing that in your. do you recall writing that in your book? _ do you recall writing that in your book? [— do you recall writing that in your book? ., do you recall writing that in your book? o so do you recall writing that in your book?- so your— do you recall writing that in your book? ido. so your answer- do you recall writing that in your book? i do. so your answer to l do you recall writing that in your. book? i do. so your answer to the ruestion book? i do. so your answer to the question i — book? i do. so your answer to the question i put— book? i do. so your answer to the question i put which _ book?“ so your answer to the question i put which was - book?“ so your answer to the question i put which was that - book?“ so your answer to the question i put which was that the i question i put which was that the prime _ question i put which was that the prime minister— question i put which was that the prime minister take _ question i put which was that the prime minister take a _ question i put which was that the prime minister take a consistent| prime minister take a consistent line is— prime minister take a consistent line is not— prime minister take a consistent line is not that _ prime minister take a consistent line is not that he _ prime minister take a consistent line is not that he was _ prime minister take a consistent line is not that he was consciousl prime minister take a consistent. line is not that he was conscious of the debate — line is not that he was conscious of the debate both— line is not that he was conscious of the debate both sides, _ line is not that he was conscious of the debate both sides, but - line is not that he was conscious of the debate both sides, but that- line is not that he was conscious of| the debate both sides, but that you used your— the debate both sides, but that you used your efforts _ the debate both sides, but that you used your efforts as _ the debate both sides, but that you used your efforts as well— the debate both sides, but that you used your efforts as well as - the debate both sides, but that you used your efforts as well as the - used your efforts as well as the efforts— used your efforts as well as the efforts of— used your efforts as well as the efforts of others _ used your efforts as well as the efforts of others to _ used your efforts as well as the efforts of others to avoid - used your efforts as well as the l efforts of others to avoid chaotic turching — efforts of others to avoid chaotic turching on— efforts of others to avoid chaotic lurching on his _ efforts of others to avoid chaotic lurching on his part— efforts of others to avoid chaotic lurching on his part and - efforts of others to avoid chaotic lurching on his part and the - efforts of others to avoid chaotic| lurching on his part and the clear impression — lurching on his part and the clear impression you _ lurching on his part and the clear impression you give _ lurching on his part and the clear impression you give in _ lurching on his part and the clear impression you give in your - lurching on his part and the clear impression you give in your owni impression you give in your own book, _ impression you give in your own book. mr— impression you give in your own book, mr hancock, _ impression you give in your own book, mr hancock, is _ impression you give in your own book, mr hancock, is that - impression you give in your own book, mr hancock, is that yet . impression you give in your own - book, mr hancock, is that yet again he had _ book, mr hancock, is that yet again he had veered — book, mr hancock, is that yet again he had veered off. _ book, mr hancock, is that yet again he had veered off.— he had veered off. what period are we talkin: he had veered off. what period are we talking about? _ he had veered off. what period are we talking about? 26th _ he had veered off. what period are we talking about? 26th of- he had veered off. what period are we talking about? 26th of august. | we talking about? 26th of august. late august _ we talking about? 26th of august. late august was _ we talking about? 26th of august. late august was frustrating - we talking about? 26th of august. l late august was frustrating because in july, the late august was frustrating because injuly, the prime minister was actually concerned that there was a second wave and it was reflected in the various communications and then came back from holiday and was much more concerned with are not locking down and i found that a problem. they are your words. chaotic, turchind _ they are your words. chaotic, lurching. that's— they are your words. chaotic, lurching. that's not— they are your words. chaotic, lurching. that's not entirely. lurching. that's not entirely similar— lurching. that's not entirely similar to _ lurching. that's not entirely similar to suggesting - lurching. that's not entirely similar to suggesting that l lurching. that's not entirelyl similar to suggesting that he lurching. that's not entirely- similar to suggesting that he was reasonably— similar to suggesting that he was reasonably and _ similar to suggesting that he was reasonably and sensibly- similar to suggesting that he was reasonably and sensibly taking i similar to suggesting that he was reasonably and sensibly taking a i reasonably and sensibly taking a different — reasonably and sensibly taking a different view _ reasonably and sensibly taking a different view in _ reasonably and sensibly taking a different view in light _ reasonably and sensibly taking a different view in light of - reasonably and sensibly taking a different view in light of new- different view in light of new information— different view in light of new information or— different view in light of new information or scientific- different view in light of new. information or scientific advice. different view in light of new- information or scientific advice. is it? ., ' , ., it? there are different degrees of diloma it? there are different degrees of diplomacy with — it? there are different degrees of diplomacy with which _ it? there are different degrees of diplomacy with which you - it? there are different degrees of diplomacy with which you can - it? there are different degrees of. diplomacy with which you can answer to the same question. in september, as ou to the same question. in september, as you have — to the same question. in september, as you have indicated _ to the same question. in september, as you have indicated and _ to the same question. in september, as you have indicated and as - to the same question. in september, as you have indicated and as your. as you have indicated and as your statement — as you have indicated and as your statement makes _ as you have indicated and as your statement makes plain, - as you have indicated and as your statement makes plain, the - as you have indicated and as your statement makes plain, the data| statement makes plain, the data shows _ statement makes plain, the data shows that — statement makes plain, the data shows that infection _ statement makes plain, the data shows that infection rates - statement makes plain, the data shows that infection rates were i shows that infection rates were going _ shows that infection rates were going up— shows that infection rates were going up and _ shows that infection rates were going up and in— shows that infection rates were going up and in a— shows that infection rates were going up and in a very- shows that infection rates were going up and in a very broad i shows that infection rates were - going up and in a very broad sense, the country— going up and in a very broad sense, the country was _ going up and in a very broad sense, the country was faced _ going up and in a very broad sense, the country was faced with - going up and in a very broad sense, the country was faced with a - the country was faced with a scenario— the country was faced with a scenario similar— the country was faced with a scenario similar to— the country was faced with a scenario similar to that - the country was faced with a i scenario similar to that facing the country was faced with a - scenario similar to that facing the end of— scenario similar to that facing the end of february, _ scenario similar to that facing the end of february, that's _ scenario similar to that facing the end of february, that's what - scenario similar to that facing the end of february, that's what youi end of february, that's what you suggest — end of february, that's what you suggest in — end of february, that's what you suggest in your— end of february, that's what you suggest in your statement. - end of february, that's what you suggest in your statement. yes.�* suggest in your statement. yes. actuall , suggest in your statement. yes. actually, case — suggest in your statement. yes. actually, case rates _ suggest in your statement. yes. actually, case rates were - suggest in your statement.“ actually, case rates were higher than at the end of february. that was our than at the end of february. that was your assessment, _ than at the end of february. that was your assessment, you said similar— was your assessment, you said similar to — was your assessment, you said similar to the _ was your assessment, you said similar to the end _ was your assessment, you said similar to the end of— was your assessment, you said similar to the end of february. was your assessment, you said . similar to the end of february full stop what. — similar to the end of february full stop what. in— similar to the end of february full stop what, in general— similar to the end of february full stop what, in general terms, - similar to the end of february full stop what, in general terms, as l stop what, in general terms, as secretary— stop what, in general terms, as secretary of _ stop what, in general terms, as secretary of state, _ stop what, in general terms, as secretary of state, was - stop what, in general terms, as secretary of state, was your. secretary of state, was your position _ secretary of state, was your position in _ secretary of state, was your position in september? - secretary of state, was youri position in september? were secretary of state, was your- position in september? were you arguing _ position in september? were you arguing for. — position in september? were you arguing for. at— position in september? were you arguing for, at that _ position in september? were you arguing for, at that early - position in september? were you arguing for, at that early stage, i arguing for, at that early stage, circuit— arguing for, at that early stage, circuit breaker, _ arguing for, at that early stage, circuit breaker, which _ arguing for, at that early stage, circuit breaker, which is - arguing for, at that early stage, circuit breaker, which is a - arguing for, at that early stage, circuit breaker, which is a short| circuit breaker, which is a short lockdown, _ circuit breaker, which is a short lockdown, if— circuit breaker, which is a short lockdown, if you _ circuit breaker, which is a short lockdown, if you like. - circuit breaker, which is a short lockdown, if you like. 0r- circuit breaker, which is a short lockdown, if you like. or a - circuit breaker, which is a short. lockdown, if you like. or a longer national— lockdown, if you like. or a longer national lockdown? _ lockdown, if you like. or a longer national lockdown? where - lockdown, if you like. or a longer national lockdown? where you i lockdown, if you like. or a longer- national lockdown? where you calling for better— national lockdown? where you calling for better implementation _ national lockdown? where you calling for better implementation of- national lockdown? where you calling for better implementation of local - for better implementation of local restrictions— for better implementation of local restrictions or— for better implementation of local restrictions or perhaps _ for better implementation of local restrictions or perhaps beefed - for better implementation of local restrictions or perhaps beefed upi restrictions or perhaps beefed up rules— restrictions or perhaps beefed up rules of— restrictions or perhaps beefed up rules of six. _ restrictions or perhaps beefed up rules of six, or— restrictions or perhaps beefed up rules of six, or whatever- restrictions or perhaps beefed up rules of six, or whatever to - restrictions or perhaps beefed up| rules of six, or whatever to about what _ rules of six, or whatever to about what was — rules of six, or whatever to about what was your _ rules of six, or whatever to about what was your position? - rules of six, or whatever to about what was your position? my - rules of six, or whatever to about what was your position? my position was to argue — what was your position? my position was to argue for _ what was your position? my position was to argue for stronger _ what was your position? my position was to argue for stronger lockdown l was to argue for stronger lockdown is and a tier system with a stronger top tier and ifirst is and a tier system with a stronger top tier and i first put that forward at the end of august, to my own team, we worked it up and took it in the middle of september and it was very frustrating that it took a month to get a policy in place. it was even more frustrating that the top tier was not enough to get set below one. and therefore it wasn't effective for the task. —— r below one. where national measures like the raw sex will propose, i was enthusiastic. —— rule of six. infill enthusiastic. -- rule of six. will aet into enthusiastic. -- rule of six. will get into the _ enthusiastic. -- rule of six. will get into the detail, _ enthusiastic. —— rule of six. will get into the detail, spy ammo, on the 16th _ get into the detail, spy ammo, on the 16th september, _ get into the detail, spy ammo, on the 16th september, mated - get into the detail, spy ammo, on the 16th september, mated a - get into the detail, spy ammo, on - the 16th september, mated a planned circuit— the 16th september, mated a planned circuit breaker. _ the16th september, mated a planned circuit breaker. [— the 16th september, mated a planned circuit breaker.— circuit breaker. i didn't answer on the circuit — circuit breaker. i didn't answer on the circuit breaker. _ circuit breaker. i didn't answer on the circuit breaker. on _ circuit breaker. i didn't answer on the circuit breaker. on the - circuit breaker. i didn't answer on the circuit breaker. on the 17th i the circuit breaker. on the 17th september. — the circuit breaker. on the 17th september, sage _ the circuit breaker. on the 17th september, sage recommends the circuit breaker. on the 17th i september, sage recommends a the circuit breaker. on the 17th - september, sage recommends a circuit breaker— september, sage recommends a circuit breaker and _ september, sage recommends a circuit breaker and you — september, sage recommends a circuit breaker and you will— september, sage recommends a circuit breaker and you will recall— september, sage recommends a circuit breaker and you will recall that - september, sage recommends a circuit breaker and you will recall that the - breaker and you will recall that the covid _ breaker and you will recall that the covid task— breaker and you will recall that the covid task force _ breaker and you will recall that the covid task force on _ breaker and you will recall that the covid task force on the _ breaker and you will recall that the covid task force on the 19th - covid task force on the 19th september, _ covid task force on the 19th september, i'm— covid task force on the 19th september, i'm sure - covid task force on the 19th september, i'm sure you i covid task force on the 19th. september, i'm sure you will remember, _ september, i'm sure you will remember, was— september, i'm sure you will remember, was put - september, i'm sure you will remember, was put forward i september, i'm sure you will. remember, was put forward the september, i'm sure you will- remember, was put forward the prime minister. _ remember, was put forward the prime minister. a _ remember, was put forward the prime minister, a number— remember, was put forward the prime minister, a number of— remember, was put forward the prime minister, a number of different- minister, a number of different measures. _ minister, a number of different measures, package _ minister, a number of different measures, package a, - minister, a number of differenti measures, package a, package minister, a number of different. measures, package a, package b, package— measures, package a, package b, package c— measures, package a, package b, package c and _ measures, package a, package b, package c and a _ measures, package a, package b, package c and a circuit _ measures, package a, package b, package c and a circuit breaker. . package c and a circuit breaker. where — package c and a circuit breaker. where were _ package c and a circuit breaker. where were you _ package c and a circuit breaker. where were you between - package c and a circuit breaker. where were you between the i package c and a circuit breaker. i where were you between the 17th package c and a circuit breaker. - where were you between the 17th and 20th of— where were you between the 17th and 20th of september— where were you between the 17th and 20th of september on _ where were you between the 17th and 20th of september on the _ where were you between the 17th and 20th of september on the circuit - 20th of september on the circuit breaker— 20th of september on the circuit breaker proposition? _ 20th of september on the circuit breaker proposition? [— 20th of september on the circuit breaker proposition?— 20th of september on the circuit breaker proposition? i was in favour of tou . her breaker proposition? i was in favour of tougher measures _ breaker proposition? i was in favour of tougher measures that _ breaker proposition? i was in favour of tougher measures that could - breaker proposition? i was in favour of tougher measures that could get | breaker proposition? i was in favour. of tougher measures that could get r below one, especially in the areas where intervention was needed because cases were highest. i was not convinced by the circuit breaker proposal. it's effectivelyjust a short lockdown and if you put it in the two weeks, i can see why in theory, if the two weeks, no human would come into contact with any other human, then the case numbers were dropped dramatically but in the real world, that isn't how life works. for instance, in hospitals and care homes, people have to interact. secondly, the political impact of repeat circuit breakers would have been to lose the confidence of those who we needed to have on board to make it happen and i thought that therefore, a circuit breaker was not the best approach because basically, rates would just shoot up afterwards. that is what happened when i tried one in wales. i was more strongly in favour, the thing i wanted to see, was action to keep r below one and the way that i thought was best organised was a degree of national action and then the tears system, making sure you get the thing, the pandemic under control, where it was most virulent. that was my view at the time. i can go through with hindsight i now think of it. �* ., i. go through with hindsight i now think of it. �* ., i. ., think of it. before you look at the hindsiaht think of it. before you look at the hindsight angle, _ think of it. before you look at the hindsight angle, you _ think of it. before you look at the hindsight angle, you say - think of it. before you look at the hindsight angle, you say in - think of it. before you look at the hindsight angle, you say in your. hindsight angle, you say in your statement, _ hindsight angle, you say in your statement, there _ hindsight angle, you say in your statement, there were - hindsight angle, you say in your statement, there were no - hindsight angle, you say in your. statement, there were no excuses second — statement, there were no excuses second time — statement, there were no excuses second time round, _ statement, there were no excuses second time round, in— statement, there were no excuses second time round, in relation- statement, there were no excuses second time round, in relation to. second time round, in relation to the second — second time round, in relation to the second lockdown. _ second time round, in relation to the second lockdown. case - second time round, in relation to i the second lockdown. case numbers rose from _ the second lockdown. case numbers rose from the — the second lockdown. case numbers rose from the july— the second lockdown. case numbers rose from the july 2020 _ the second lockdown. case numbers rose from the july 2020 and - the second lockdown. case numbers rose from the july 2020 and in - rose from the july 2020 and in hindsight. _ rose from the july 2020 and in hindsight. it— rose from the july 2020 and in hindsight, it is— rose from the july 2020 and in hindsight, it is clear— rose from the july 2020 and in hindsight, it is clear that- rose from the july 2020 and in hindsight, it is clear that a - rose from the july 2020 and in - hindsight, it is clear that a second wave _ hindsight, it is clear that a second wave is— hindsight, it is clear that a second wave is coming _ hindsight, it is clear that a second wave is coming from _ hindsight, it is clear that a second wave is coming from late - hindsight, it is clear that a second wave is coming from late august. | hindsight, it is clear that a secondi wave is coming from late august. i said wave is coming from late august. said so on the record. wave is coming from late august. i said so on the record. i began - wave is coming from late august. i said so on the record. i began to l said so on the record. i began to call for measures _ said so on the record. i began to call for measures to _ said so on the record. i began to call for measures to suppress, i said so on the record. i began to i call for measures to suppress, not mitigate _ call for measures to suppress, not mitigate but — call for measures to suppress, not mitigate but suppress, _ call for measures to suppress, not mitigate but suppress, the - call for measures to suppress, not mitigate but suppress, the virus. mitigate but suppress, the virus from _ mitigate but suppress, the virus from early— mitigate but suppress, the virus from early september. - mitigate but suppress, the virus from early september. i- mitigate but suppress, the virus from early september. i regretl mitigate but suppress, the virusj from early september. i regret i mitigate but suppress, the virus- from early september. i regret i was unable _ from early september. i regret i was unable to— from early september. i regret i was unable to win — from early september. i regret i was unable to win that _ from early september. i regret i was unable to win that argument. - from early september. i regret i was unable to win that argument. why. from early september. i regret i wasi unable to win that argument. why did you not— unable to win that argument. why did you not lend — unable to win that argument. why did you not lend your— unable to win that argument. why did you not lend your support _ unable to win that argument. why did you not lend your support to - unable to win that argument. why did you not lend your support to the - you not lend your support to the scientific— you not lend your support to the scientific advice, _ you not lend your support to the scientific advice, which - you not lend your support to the scientific advice, which was - you not lend your support to the scientific advice, which was to l you not lend your support to the i scientific advice, which was to the effect _ scientific advice, which was to the effect that— scientific advice, which was to the effect that a — scientific advice, which was to the effect that a circuit _ scientific advice, which was to the effect that a circuit breaker- scientific advice, which was to the effect that a circuit breaker in - effect that a circuit breaker in september— effect that a circuit breaker in septemberwas_ effect that a circuit breaker in september was required? - effect that a circuit breaker in. september was required? that effect that a circuit breaker in september was required? that wasn't ofthe september was required? that wasn't of the unanimous _ september was required? that wasn't of the unanimous scientific _ september was required? that wasn't of the unanimous scientific advice. . of the unanimous scientific advice. sage recommended a circuit breaker on the _ sage recommended a circuit breaker on the 17th— sage recommended a circuit breaker on the 17th september. _ sage recommended a circuit breaker on the 17th september. if— sage recommended a circuit breaker on the 17th september. if i - sage recommended a circuit breaker on the 17th september.— on the 17th september. if i can finish my _ on the 17th september. if i can finish my sentence, _ on the 17th september. if i can finish my sentence, because . on the 17th september. if i can finish my sentence, because i | finish my sentence, because i discussed it with a chief medical officer at the time and his view was subtly different to sage, he thought we needed to put in the restrictions necessary to get r below one which would hold consistently through the winter. i thought that was a better proposition. with hindsight, should i have teamed up with the formal sage conclusions, etc? it would have been better to have something rather than nothing but my concern with a circuit breaker, even with hindsight, is that coming in and out of lockdown is not sustainable. it is not there on the public and it would have lost support —— not fair on the public and it would have lost support amongst legislators and i don't think it would have worked. with hindsight, the tears system didn't work because i was allowed to have a top tier which was strong enough that even if we had, people just moved. we came up with the tiers system to make sure that people in areas of low prevalence and get the full whack of lockdown measures and it is, i cared about places like herefordshire and cornwall that hardly had any cases. and it seemed unfair that they should be locked down because other places had higher prevalence. but the truth is people travelled and the truth is people travelled and the spread came out. patrick vallance was right about his critique of tiers. tote vallance was right about his critique of tiers.— vallance was right about his critique of tiers. we are going to deal with tiers _ critique of tiers. we are going to deal with tiers in _ critique of tiers. we are going to deal with tiers in the _ critique of tiers. we are going to deal with tiers in the morning. i critique of tiers. we are going to l deal with tiers in the morning. on this issue — deal with tiers in the morning. on this issue on _ deal with tiers in the morning. on this issue on why— deal with tiers in the morning. on this issue on why he _ deal with tiers in the morning. on this issue on why he didn't - deal with tiers in the morning. on| this issue on why he didn't indoors come _ this issue on why he didn't indoors come as— this issue on why he didn't indoors come as a — this issue on why he didn't indoors come as a secretary— this issue on why he didn't indoors come as a secretary of— this issue on why he didn't indoors come as a secretary of state - this issue on why he didn't indoors come as a secretary of state for. come as a secretary of state for health, — come as a secretary of state for health, the _ come as a secretary of state for health, the person— come as a secretary of state for health, the person whom - come as a secretary of state for health, the person whom buy. come as a secretary of state for. health, the person whom buy your come as a secretary of state for- health, the person whom buy your own words _ health, the person whom buy your own words was _ health, the person whom buy your own words was bound — health, the person whom buy your own words was bound to _ health, the person whom buy your own words was bound to take _ health, the person whom buy your own words was bound to take the _ health, the person whom buy your own words was bound to take the public- words was bound to take the public health— words was bound to take the public health physician. _ words was bound to take the public health physician.— health physician. because it wouldn't have _ health physician. because it wouldn't have worked - health physician. because it wouldn't have worked in - health physician. because it- wouldn't have worked in practice and when it was trialled in wales, i didn't work. what we needed was a consistent lockdown in winter. fin consistent lockdown in winter. on the 17th september, you couldn't have _ the 17th september, you couldn't have known— the 17th september, you couldn't have known that _ the 17th september, you couldn't have known that the _ the 17th september, you couldn't have known that the lockdown i the 17th september, you couldn't have known that the lockdown in| have known that the lockdown in wales _ have known that the lockdown in wales wouldn't _ have known that the lockdown in wales wouldn't have _ have known that the lockdown in wales wouldn't have worked, . have known that the lockdown in wales wouldn't have worked, it. have known that the lockdown in i wales wouldn't have worked, it had been put _ wales wouldn't have worked, it had been put into— wales wouldn't have worked, it had been put into place. _ wales wouldn't have worked, it had been put into place. what - wales wouldn't have worked, it had been put into place. what you - wales wouldn't have worked, it had. been put into place. what you meant to be _ been put into place. what you meant to be following — been put into place. what you meant to be following their— been put into place. what you meant to be following their science? - been put into place. what you meant to be following their science?- to be following their science? know, is meant to — to be following their science? know, is meant to be _ to be following their science? know, is meant to be guided _ to be following their science? know, is meant to be guided by _ to be following their science? know, is meant to be guided by the - to be following their science? know, is meant to be guided by the that i is meant to be guided by the that was my whole approach. if i thought it wouldn't work, then i would take another decision and anyway, discussions with the chief medical officer, who was my principal and clinical advisor, we both thought it was reasonably arguable that a single consistent policy to keep r below one would have been better. i just don't think in outward have worked over the winter. mr; just don't think in outward have worked over the winter. my lady, is that a convenient... _ worked over the winter. my lady, is that a convenient... so _ worked over the winter. my lady, is that a convenient... so aye - worked over the winter. my lady, is that a convenient... so aye we - worked over the winter. my lady, is| that a convenient... so aye we have had a _ that a convenient... so aye we have had a long _ that a convenient... so aye we have had a long day _ that a convenient... so aye we have had a long day i_ that a convenient... so aye we have had a long day. i am _ that a convenient... so aye we have had a long day. i am sorry- that a convenient... so aye we have had a long day. i am sorry we - that a convenient... so aye we have had a long day. i am sorry we can'ti had a long day. i am sorry we can't finish _ had a long day. i am sorry we can't finish today — had a long day. i am sorry we can't finish today. we _ had a long day. i am sorry we can't finish today-— finish today. we will definitely conclude your _ finish today. we will definitely conclude your evidence - finish today. we will definitely conclude your evidence before finish today. we will definitely l conclude your evidence before i break— conclude your evidence before i break for— conclude your evidence before i break for lunch. i conclude your evidence before i break for lunch.— conclude your evidence before i break for lunch. i am available as lona as break for lunch. i am available as long as you _ break for lunch. i am available as long as you need _ break for lunch. i am available as long as you need me. _ break for lunch. i am available as long as you need me. thank- break for lunch. i am available as long as you need me. thank you | break for lunch. i am available as - long as you need me. thank you very much, long as you need me. thank you very much. 10am — long as you need me. thank you very much, 10am tomorrow. _ long as you need me. thank you very much, 10am tomorrow. say - long as you need me. thank you very much, 10am tomorrow. say the - long as you need me. thank you very| much, 10am tomorrow. say the covid inuui much, 10am tomorrow. say the covid inquiry comes — much, 10am tomorrow. say the covid inquiry comes to _ much, 10am tomorrow. say the covid inquiry comes to an _ much, 10am tomorrow. say the covid inquiry comes to an end _ much, 10am tomorrow. say the covid inquiry comes to an end the - much, 10am tomorrow. say the covid inquiry comes to an end the day. - inquiry comes to an end the day. matt hancock will continue giving evidence tomorrow. a lot of evidence has been given. on that, during the course of this evidence, the former health secretary told the inquiry that with hindsight, the government could and should have locked down the three weeks earlier than it did on march the 23rd. and that would have saved many lives. he is the most senior decision—maker at the time to admit that. let's take a listen to what matt hancock said. if listen to what matt hancock said. if i may say so, with hindsight, italy having lockdown initially nationally on the 21st of january and national lockdown around the 28 february. if at that moment, having seen the sage assumptions which they didn't properly fully adopt but you have heard from the scientist on that. if at that moment, we had realised that it was definitely coming and there are reasonable worse case scenario was as awful as it was, that is a moment that we should have, with hindsight, have acted. and if we had a doctrine that we believe that i proposed, that if we have a lockdown, you put the lockdown as soon as possible. the doubling rate at this point estimated every three to four days, we would have been six dublin ends ahead of where we were, which means that fewer than a tenth of the number of people would have died in the first way. at the time, there was still enormous uncertainty. the number of cases was still very low. there were only 12 cases reported on the 1st of march so you can understand, the cost of what i'm proposing, well and huge. 50 i defend the actions that were so i defend the actions that were taken by the government at the time, knowing what we did but with hindsight, that's the moment we should have done it. three weeks earlier and it would have saved many, many lives.— earlier and it would have saved many, many lives. that was matt hancock to _ many, many lives. that was matt hancock to giving _ many, many lives. that was matt hancock to giving evidence - many, many lives. that was matt hancock to giving evidence to - many, many lives. that was mattj hancock to giving evidence to the covid inquiry earlier today. if you want to catch up on all the evidence that has been given by the former health secretary, then you can find that on the bbc news website or app andindeed that on the bbc news website or app and indeed you can catch up on the day, on the bbc iplayer as well. let's look at the rest of the day's news. alistair darling has died aged 70. the former edinburgh mp also led the better together campaign in 2014 scottish independent referendum. a statement issued on behalf of his family called him a much loved husband and beloved father of callum and anna. the labour leader keir starmer said as they lived a life devoted to public service and that he will be remembered as the chancellor whose calm expertise and honesty helped to guide britain through the time out of the global financial crisis. the former prime minister gordon brown said he will be remembered as the state and other impeachable integrity. he remembered as the state and other impeachable integrity.— remembered as the state and other impeachable integrity. he was calm, he was considered, _ impeachable integrity. he was calm, he was considered, he _ impeachable integrity. he was calm, he was considered, he had _ impeachable integrity. he was calm, he was considered, he had great - he was considered, he had great wisdom. he had a strong sense of what is right and wrong. he had great integrity, he was a person could rely and depend upon and i think we saw that not just could rely and depend upon and i think we saw that notjust during the financial crisis but when he chaired the better together campaign. it a difficult thing to do, it was quite a tense time in scottish life but i think you gain the respect, not only of his supporters but of his opponents in that crisis and he came out of that as a man whose authority was held in huge esteem by everybody across the country. in huge esteem by everybody across the count . . , ., ' ., country. in the cabinet from 97 to 2010, he must— country. in the cabinet from 97 to 2010, he must have _ country. in the cabinet from 97 to 2010, he must have been - country. in the cabinet from 97 to 2010, he must have been quite i country. in the cabinet from 97 to | 2010, he must have been quite an independence for politician. we worked independence for politician. - worked very closely but then he was a person who showed enormous girls in government and that's why as a departmental manager but also someone with a strong and very respected sense ofjudgment, he was the obvious choice when i became prime minister to become chancellor in 2007 and of course, he had to deal our very first hand with the collapse of the banks, including the two scottish banks. he to deal with the international ramifications the crisis. i think throughout all that, he gained the respect of people internationally as well as nationally for the way that he handled the difficulties. when he went back to _ handled the difficulties. when he went back to the _ handled the difficulties. when he went back to the backbenches i handled the difficulties. when he went back to the backbenches in | went back to the backbenches in 2010, _ went back to the backbenches in 2010, there may have been an assumption that was his political career— assumption that was his political career more or less over. but in a referendum. _ career more or less over. but in a referendum, he was thrust back into it again _ referendum, he was thrust back into it again i— referendum, he was thrust back into it aaain. .. �* referendum, he was thrust back into itaaain. .. �* ~' referendum, he was thrust back into itaaain. .. �* ,, it again. i don't think he was desperate — it again. i don't think he was desperate to _ it again. i don't think he was desperate to do _ it again. i don't think he was desperate to do the - it again. i don't think he was desperate to do the job - it again. i don't think he was desperate to do the job as l it again. i don't think he was i desperate to do the job as chair of better together but he was pressured into doing it and he was the obvious choice because he could bring people together, he commanded a huge amount of respect and authority. he was also respected by his opponents and of course, he had to do the big debate with alex salmond, he had to lead a campaign. it wasn'tjust a one party campaign and i think he came out of that with people's faith in hisjudgment and respect came out of that with people's faith in his judgment and respect for the way that he dealt with things, very much enhanced and i think he himself would have said that this was one of the most important things that he did. ithink the most important things that he did. i think we have also got to remember he was a great family man. his partnership with maggie is something that was quite a wonderful thing to see and he had huge pride rightly so, in the achievement of his son callum and his daughter anna and my thoughts are with his family, who are suffering very much today. you touched on a lot of the day will be about _ you touched on a lot of the day will be about politics, what what was he like as _ be about politics, what what was he like as a _ be about politics, what what was he like as a man to work with?| be about politics, what what was he like as a man to work with?- like as a man to work with? i think he had this — like as a man to work with? i think he had this very _ like as a man to work with? i think he had this very dry _ like as a man to work with? i think he had this very dry sense - like as a man to work with? i think he had this very dry sense of- he had this very dry sense of humour, wry sense of humour is the right way of saying it. he looks incredibly serious sometimes that he always had something that was quite humorous to say. that's why he gained the respect of so many people who enjoyed being in his company. he obviously was very talented, great expertise, he had trained as a lawyer and as advocate and he's always experience —— he uses experience. he served the whole 13 years of the labour government and then went on to chair the better together campaign. i think people will remember a life of huge achievement that was based on a profound and strong sense of what was right and wrong and a passion for people difficulty that he showed, wanting to help those people who are least able to help themselves.— who are least able to help themselves. . ., �* ., who are least able to help themselves. . ., themselves. that gordon brown paying tribute to alistair _ themselves. that gordon brown paying tribute to alistair darling, _ themselves. that gordon brown paying tribute to alistair darling, the - tribute to alistair darling, the former labour chancellor who has died at the age of 70. the current chancellorjeremy hunt called him one of the great chancellors of our time and said john major, the former prime minister said, alistair was a decent man who brought civility, reason and intelligence to politics, adding, he was an a of follows the net parliament, both in government... he'll be very much missed across the pisco spectrum. i want to take you to downing street, as we head towards christmas, the lights in downing street are being lit. you can see the prime minister and his wife are there. looking like they are taking a drink of something. the christmas tree in downing street has been lit up and a market has been set up in downing street. earlier on, the whole of downing street was cleared of all the journalists so that they could set up this market and there. it looks like, of course, across the country, there are lots of christmas markets and in the rest of europe, a tradition that people go around picking up, having a mulled wine as we head towards christmas. there you can see the prime minister and his wife, i don't know if we have any sound to hear what is going on. is everything going well? yes. it looks like there _ is everything going well? yes. it looks like there is _ is everything going well? yes. it looks like there is some gravy i don't know if he sampled any of the gravy, but it didn't look like a bit of gravy. you can see lots of children and other people in downing street for that, the christmas lights, tradition and downing street that there is a christmas tree outside number ten. that one has been lit up and the prime minister and his wife walking around that christmas market that has been set “p christmas market that has been set up in downing street. now, from christmas trees in downing street to pandas. forthe christmas trees in downing street to pandas. for the last 12 years, edinburgh zoo has been home to the only giant pandas in the uk. but if you are thinking of paying them a visit, time is very much running out because today, is the final day people get to see them before their enclosure is set back shut off as they prepared to turn back to china. right, buddy, are you ready to go through? the morning wake—up call for yang guang. are you ready? good boy. the pandas are creatures of habit, but kirsty�*s been getting them up earlier as their day of departure draws near. yang guang was partially hand—reared as a cub so he kind of greets the keepers when we come in in the morning, he's much more kind of people focused, whereas tian is much more kind of wild in her attitude which makes her great fun to work with because she's always keeping us on our toes. for the past 12 years scotland has been the two giant pandas' home. visitors fascinated by these rock star bears, watching as they sleep and eat — bamboo, lots of it — 100 kilos between them every day. you have driven six hours to get here today. yeah. for your birthday? yeah. specially to see the pandas? yeah. they're lovely, aren't they? i've grown to love them because he loves them. i want to run in and grab one and just hug it. i panda hat. panda hat, yeah. panda fan? a little bit. every time we come to edinburgh, you know, it's, like, we've got to go to the zoo and see the pandas. and there is a huge number of panda fans online too. the panda cams soon to be switched off — a hit notjust here, but around the world. how serious are people who watch the pandas? oh, people watch it 24 hours a day. we get phone calls to say, you know, yang guang has not moved today, is he all right? i've not seen the keepers going in and feeding them at that time, and as i say, that's great, we have never ever minded that. we know that pandas are special. do you think some of the visitors might get a bit tearful? i absolutely think there will be lots of tears from people when they last see them and i can't guarantee that there won't be tears from some of my keepers when they wave them goodbye at the airport as well. the first panda crate. the pandas hit the headlines when they first arrived. but despite high hopes the edinburgh pairing never had a cub. the solitary animals only come into heat once a year. experts think tian tian might have conceived but never went full—term. it would be lovely to have had a panda cub, of course it would have been, but that isn't the be all and end all. these two individuals are wonderful characters and wonderful ambassadors for the species and so i think it's about engagement, it's about collaboration internationally, it's about conservation. and sadly our time with our giant pandas is very shortly drawing to a close. the zoo says the pandas' welfare has always been their top priority and a keeper and a vet will be with them as they travel back to china. these box office bears were only ever on loan to scotland. this, a farewell we always knew was coming. lorna gordon, bbc news, edinburgh zoo. i want to take you back to the covid inquiry in central london. this is a scene full stop we are expecting matt hancock to leave very shortly. he has been given evidence all day, covering lots of things including testing, care homes, they eat up to help out steam and lockdown. and during the course of his evidence, the former health secretary told the inquiry that with hindsight, the government could and should have locked down three weeks earlier than it did on march the 23rd and that he said that it would have saved many lives. he is the most senior decision—maker at the time to admit that. he also talks about some of the lessons that could be learnt and he has outlined what he felt, what he has outlined what he felt, what he called a vital lesson for the future and that was the uk needed better testing systems. he told the inquiry that he was worried that it was not there right now if there was another pandemic. so mr hancock will continue giving evidence tomorrow and then next week, we have already heard that former prime minister borisjohnson will also be giving evidence at the covid inquiry. we will keep you updated on the covid inquiry here on bbc news. now it's time for a look at the weather with chris fawkes. esop blend, north east scotland and parts of england. and, so at this time of the year in november, very unusual. this chart shows the white areas, where on average, we get a day or less of lying stove on the ground. snow tends to be confined to pennines and mountains during november. where we have seen showers by day, namely southern england, north and eastern scotland, there is a risk of icy stretches on road and pavement and a freezing cold nights. temperatures getting down to around -8 temperatures getting down to around —8 in the countryside. if you mist and fog patches as we sat the day on friday. the most of us, it is cold start of the day. most of us will see sunshine. showers continue to feed and of the north sea. it is going to be cold. temperatures struggling to get much above freezing across scotland and three to five degrees celsius. it is going to five degrees celsius. it is going to be a day of well below average temperature is for the day. that will bring some patches of rain, properly some sleet or snow over hills, maybe some localised human nations. it will bring the threat of wintry weather into west scotland, parts of wales and england. temperatures continue to struggle. low pressure to south—west on sunday, there is some uncertainty and how quickly this will make its way to the uk. the time being, it shows rain moving on from the south—west, we will publish see some snow on the leading edge of the system for a time. the best of the cold weather the scotland and north—east england. temperatures very slow to rise. live from london, this is bbc news. # and then we sang a song # and then we sang a song # the rare old mountain dew # the rare old mountain dew # i turned my face away... # i turned my face away... # and dreams about you. shane macgowan, who transformed irish traditional music as front man with the pogues, has died aged 65. former health secretary matt hancock defences role during the pandemic, but tells the covid inquiry lockdown should have been introduced earlier. i defend the actions that were taken by the government at the time knowing what we did, but with hindsight, that is