Congressman adam smith, in washington, welcome to hardtalk. And let me begin with a very simple question what do you believe President Biden hoped to achieve by flying out to the middle east . Well, i think the number one biggest goal is to contain the conflict. Thats number one. Number two, to work with israel to try to figure out some way to minimise the impact on civilians within gaza, and also within israel, to try to chart a path forward. And i am seeing reporting its this morning, my time, where were at, recording here im seeing reporting this morning that a humanitarian corridor has been opened up out of gaza, and thats one of the biggest goals. The second is to work with partners in the region to try to make sure that this conflict doesnt spread, that hezbollah and iran dont get more involved. Thats the goal and thats the objective. And i guess also to have the conversations with israel about how best we can help them defend themselves against the threat from hamas. Lets just start with that idea of working with the partners in the arab world. Of course, the plan was that biden would go on to amman, jordan, after being in israel. That was cancelled as a result of the fallout from that blast at Al Ahli Hospital in gaza. Now, as you very well know, the israelis have presented evidence which they say clearly shows that the blast was caused by an islamichhad rocket which fell short. There are many people in the middle east, representing governments around the region, who it seems refuse to accept that version of events and who blame israel for causing that terrible blast and the terrible loss of life. Now, joe biden chose to say, when he met benjamin netanyahu, that blast appears to have been done by the other team, not you. Do you think it was wise for biden he says hed seen some data from the pentagon but was it wise for biden to say that . Yes, i believe it was, and ive seen the reporting on this. Ive had some conversations with the white house, as well. It seems pretty obvious at this point that this was a rocket launched out of gaza. The speculation is that it was islamichhad. We dont know exactly which Terrorist Group was launching the rockets, but theres clear images of a bunch of rockets being launched from, i guess its about a kilometre or two away from the hospital, many of which go over the top of the hospital on their way to israel. And plus, israel has released a recording of Hamas Terrorists in conversation about how one of these rockets landed on the hospital. So i think President Biden was on solid footing. I think there was another quote from him that he had gotten some of those assurances from our Defence Department here in the us that that is what has happened. It seems pretty clear that thats whats happened, and it is worth noting that hamas makes note they specifically target civilians. They put civilians in harms way, they use them as human shields. So it would not at all be unlikely that Something Like this would occur. And that is clearly where the evidence seems to have pointed. But to come back to your point about biden� s intent to reach out to arab leaders, as well clearly thats deeply problematic right now. Weve seen, for example, the governments of the uae and jordan, both of which have Peace Agreements with israel, condemning israel, making it quite plain they believe it was an israeli targeting of that hospital. And what weve also seen is a popular anger on streets from turkey to jordan, to the west bank, as well. Popular anger that is at a new level. How do you believe biden, in this context, is going to reach out in a new way to arab leaderships . Yeah no, i think you hit the nail on the head. I mean, the problem is the anger in the streets, and the leadership injordan, the leadership in the uae and elsewhere is responding to that anger. I think it would be incorrect at this point to say that those countries� governments have concluded that israel did this. I dont think they have. I think they are reacting to the anger in the street. Look, hamas, islamichhad, these groups are very good at propaganda. They put this out immediately. They spread the story, lie though it may be. It hits the arab street quickly and they respond. And governments in jordan, uae, elsewhere, they have to respond to that. And what President Biden can do i mean, first of all, i think it is important to get the correct story out that this was not an israeli attack. In fact, this was once again the effect of Terrorist Groups in gaza targeting civilians. In this case, im not saying they were they werent targeting the hospital. They were targeting israeli civilians by launching missiles randomly into israel, and one of them misfired and fell on civilians in gaza. But President Biden� s got to get that message out. Hes got to make it clear what actually happened. Thats certainly step one. Right, now, Congress Context is always important in these discussions. The context, of course, is that on october 7, hamas launched a murderous assault on israel, which saw more than 1,400 people killed, including many children, women, and men. Now, that kicked off this round of violence. Since then, we have seen, according to the gazan health ministry, more than 3,000 palestinians killed, including very high numbers of women and children. Is it time now for you, as a senior us politician, to call for de escalation, to call for a ceasefire . What we are doing, what President Biden is doing, and what his administration has done from the very start is israel needs to respond to this. They need to do something to weaken hamas, but they need to do it in a way that is as careful as possible to minimise civilian casualties. Now, i dont think calling for a ceasefire is the right thing to do. Hamas has come in and attacked. If israel has some of the terrorists who did the attack that killed all of those civilians in israel, if they are able to target them, i dont think we can tell israel, no, dont do that. What we can do, and what the Biden Administration has done, is urge israel to take a more balanced and thoughtful approach as they respond to that attack. If i may interject, what does the israeli imposition of a total siege no fuel, no electricity, no water, no food getting into gaza what does that mean to you . Does that represent to you a collective punishment, which, as you well know, is something that is not proscribed by not allowed under the Geneva Conventions and the norms that surround the laws of war . Well, as i was going to say, what we have done since then is we have urged israel not to take that approach, and there has been a change. As i said, the humanitarian corridor has been opened up. Also, israel had said, get out in 2a hours because were coming in. That was about 11 days ago now, they have not come in. So, yes, weve had conversations with israel about taking a different approach, and that different approach has begun to play out. Look, it is understandable that israel reacted with incredible anger after the scenes and images that apparently too much of the world has already forgotten, less than two weeks later, of hamas pouring across the border and executing civilians, burning them alive, cutting heads off, specifically targeting civilians. Israel wanted to get the people who did that. And in the immediate aftermath, some of the things they said probably were not as calm, rational and thoughtful as they could have been. But under the circumstances, its really hard to blame israel for having that reaction. What we have done, what President Biden has done, is he has stepped in and worked with israel to change that approach. Now, no matter how you do this, its going to be incredibly difficult. Hamas is embedded with the civilian population in gaza. How do you get to hamas without impacting the civilian population . Its going to be very difficult, but right now we are working with israel to try and have a better approach to doing that. And again, let us all remind ourselves, hamas doesnt care. They dont care if their own civilians die. Sorry they dont care if the palestinians civilians die. Youve raised a lot of interesting points there. I do, because its a complicated subject. Yeah, let me just ask you one question about consistency when it comes to your view of what represents a violation of international law. As well discuss later in this interview, i hope, you are a congressman who has spoken long and loud about resisting putins aggression, his invasion of ukraine. When you saw the russians level the city of mariupol in ukraine, did you regard that asa warcrime . Im not a legal scholar. I regarded it as something that a government should not do, and i certainly. And thats why ive emphasised many, many times in this interview what President Biden is doing. Israel needs to be more careful about how they go after hamas. Theres no question about that. More careful is an interesting phrase, because what we think the israelis are still intent on doing we dont know, but its what we think is sending a huge force tanks, Ground Troops in a Ground Invasion of gaza. President biden has said he believes that if israels intent is to reoccupy gaza, it would be a big mistake. Is that his way of saying that he wants israel, actually, to think again about a massive ground assault . Yes, absolutely. And look, you know, i mean, this is something that our intelligence shows. Theres a number of problems with that. First of all, is israel trained for that type of Urban Warfare . Are they trained to go and find the tunnels where hamas has hidden their soldiers, their troops and their weapons . Are they actually prepared to do this in a way that gives them a chance to achieve their military objectives . Well, what do you think . So thats a big question. I dont know the answer to that question. I think there is cause for doubt. Israel went into gaza in a limited way back in 2014. Most observers after the fact dont think that it was a particularly Successful Operation in terms of being able to significantly degrade hamas. Have they improved their training . Do they have the intel to tell them where to go, number one. And number two, the impact on the civilian population is profound, of having to engage in that type of fighting. Now, you are the ranking, as its called, the ranking democrat on the Armed Services committee. You are very experienced at looking at sort of Us National Security and, in particular, at regional challenges like the mideast. Is it your expectation that if israel does what you believe it should be very careful and cautious about doing, which is launching a major Ground Invasion of gaza, is it your belief that that will prompt a spread of the conflict, that another front at least in the north of israel will open up with hezbollah actively engaging . And of course, if hezbollah� s engaged, then we can sort of say that iran is engaged, too. Yeah, iran is already engaged because iran, you know, has supplied hamas for quite some time, but they could be more engaged, without question. Yes, i think that increases the risk of that happening. These things are rarely black and white. Its rarely if you do this, then that will happen. So im not going to say that. It definitely increases the risk of the conflict spreading, no doubt about it. And i think its obvious to say the us has not deployed two Aircraft Carrier groups and thousands of marines to the Eastern Mediterranean just to look at the view. Is it your belief that if hezbollah engages and there is a major Conflict Zone opened up in the north of israel that us forces which have been deployed will then be used . Well, the first thing to keep in mind is the us forces are deployed primarily to make sure that we protect us assets in the region. We have troops in syria, we have troops in iraq. Shia militias affiliated with iran have, you know, recently threatened those groups in a variety of different ways. So those forces are there to protect us interests primarily, and then also secondarily, yes, to hopefully be a deterrent to hezbollah. I cant say for sure whether or not us forces would engage if the scenario you just described played out. I dont think anybody knows for sure. It depends on a lot of different factors. I just wonder if you would support that. I mean, its fair to say there are different voices. Im not going to get into a hypothetical about the future. You know, we will see whether or not it makes sense for us forces. It really depends on 1,000 different factors that, right now, is its purely hypothetical to say what might happen. Do you think the Biden Administration has taken its eye off the ball in the middle east but in particular in its approach to israel palestine over many months, arguably more than a year . It is very striking that just three weeks ago, the key National Security adviser to the president , jake sullivan, gave a long list of positives he saw in the middle east right now. And then he concluded by saying, the Mideast Region is quieter today than it has been in two decades. What a terrible misjudgement. Yeah, well, actually, no, he was absolutely right about the situation in terms of where it was at at the time he made that statement. Theres no question he was right about that. Well, it depends, of course, where he was looking. If hed been looking at the months and months of rising violence in the west bank. I heard your question, now give me a chance to answer it. If he had appreciated that the israel palestine tensions were rising to new levels, then he wouldnt have said that, would he . Yeah youre completely wrong in youranalysis, 0k . Because what he was saying was about what was going on right at the time. 0bviously, hamas fundamentally changed that by pouring across the border and attacking, but nobody in the world was predicting that at the time. So, at the time, yes. And the abraham accords, the relationship that was going on between saudi arabia and israel, the effort to negotiate that, there were a lot of positive things going on. Hamas changed that, thats what terrorists do. Sure, but thats my very point, congressman, that. Well, i understand that, but look, you know, we can engage in discussions about what the right policy is. If you want to sit around and say, how come that policy maker didnt have perfect knowledge about everything that was happening and how come we didnt solve all the problems in the world and, therefore, hes bad . I dont think thats a particularly useful. No, im not about congressman, im not about point scoring, im simply about strategic. I think the more useful discussion is to talk about what the policies are going forward, and what the Biden Administration has tried to do. And, look, let us also not forget one key factor here. We dont run the middle east, 0k . We have never tried well, never� s a long time we have not tried to run the middle east. Were not in charge of what hamas does. Were not in charge of what israel does. Were not in charge of whatjordan does. Were not in charge what saudi arabia does. Now, we try to play a role. We try to work with all of those countries to try to get to a more peaceful place. We do not govern the area, we do not dictate actions. We try to work with partners in the region to get to a more peaceful place. And presenting this as, well, if something goes wrong in the middle east, it must mean that the us is incompetent i dont think thats helpful, and i dont think its accurate. Well, i think the history of the last 25 years would say that america has had no problem trying to project its power in the middle east and shape events in the middle east to its own interest. 0ver many, many years we have seen it. I guess theres an interesting question and youre sitting in the congress right now at a time of deep dysfunction in American National politics. There is a serious question about whether America Today is less capable of projecting its power and being taken seriously by those it wants to be taken seriously by than it has been in many years. Would you agree theres a profound Credibility Problem with the us right now . Well, i would agree that we have a bit of a historical problem here that evolved in a slightly different way than most people are willing to accept. After world war ii, we were at a unique moment in human history, and that is basically that the United States of america was the last global power well, us and i guess the soviet union, and they had a different agenda we were the last people standing. So, for decades after world war ii, we had an unprecedented ability to influence world events, unprecedented and quite likely never to be matched again. And i think that created some problems. I think it created expectations globally. I think it created an overconfidence in the United States about what we could do. Inevitably, that was going to change in fact, part of the plan was for that to change. We wanted the rest of the world to get back up. We helped rebuild europe, we rebuiltjapan. When china came around, we engaged with them to allow them to participate in the global economy. It was always intended that other countries would develop more power. Thats the way the world works. So, yes, without any question, we dont have the same level of power to influence the world because other countries have become stronger and more influential. Well, other countries have become stronger, but you, in the United States, it seems have become weaker. And there is a toxic polarisation which we see playing out in your chamber, the house of representatives, right now, where the Republican Party is deeply split over appointing a new speaker. And, as we speak to each other right now, its not clear whether theyll find a speaker maybejim jordan, maybe not over the next few hours and days. But the fact is that right now, your chamber cant even pass legislation. It cant, for example, work with the Biden Administration to get new Funding Packages for israel, for Military Assistance to israel, to ukraine, maybe to taiwan, maybe to new Border Security measures. Yeah, i think we all kind of get the point at this point, so if youd like me to comment on that, im happy to. Do. Um, yeah, democracy isnt easy, 0k . I think Great Britain has experienced that recently. How many Prime Ministers have you had in the last five years . Off the top of my head, i cant count them up, because thats the nature of democracy, 0k . If everyone gets a voice, it is harder to keep everybody happy. But i find it preferable to dictatorship. I find it preferable to the way putin and xi choose to run their countries. And part of maintaining democracy is not flipping out and losing your mind every time democracy shows that its messy, is to understand its not a sign of dysfunction. Its a sign of democracy. Its a sign of a situation where people have a voice. Votes of no confidence in the leaders of legislatures happen all over the world in democracies all the time. Now, as it happens, in the us, this the first time it ever happened, the first time we ever got to that point. But thats what democracy is. And acting like when democracy hits a messy point, we should all go, oh, my god, nothing works anymore. Weve got to tear it all down and throw it away, that is what ends democracy and gives you dictatorship. And that i dont want. So, yes, were having a dispute in the United States congress. Everyone is having their opportunity to say their piece. Everyone� s getting a vote, and were resolving it. Again, i find that preferable to the alternative. If you dont, im happy to have that argument. No, not at all. Just on a point of detail, the white house recently said, one official said that were running out of runway to get new funding, in particular for israel, and maybe even more particularly given the scale of the fighting with ukraine. Now, see, now thats a substantive question thats a substantive question, which im happy to address. Yeah, no, ithink its a real challenge. And, again, it has to do with a democracy. In the us, you know, many of people who support the Republican Party in our country have moved away from supporting funding for ukraine. This is not a matter of dysfunction. This is a matter of the right side of the political spectrum in the us basically deciding that they dont want to support ukraine anymore, and its becoming more of a 50 50 question amongst the United States population. Now, i feel very strongly that we need to continue that support, and im going to push for that. But thats not dysfunction, thats democracy. Thats the way. And a final question, a final question, then. You talk about president s putin and xi. Do you think if they are looking at washington, dc right now, today, they are seeing a country that they feel is at a very weak and vulnerable moment . Well, look, you want to walk back through the history of china and the soviet union, and then russia. You know, for i dont know decades now, they have been saying the same thing. Theyve been saying, oh, the us is a falling power. Theyre going down, were coming up, capitalism. Its all marxist nonsense about how and iforget the phrase exactly they have a very specific way of putting it. The decline of the west, the inevitable fall, and all of that. You know, theyve been predicting that for decades. So the fact that china and russia are saying that the us and the western world is, you know, on the collapse is really hardly news at this point. Well see. I mean, we are, i believe, still influential. I think the Western Alliance that we have put together is still influential. Its not easy, but we are going to keep working on it. And, yeah, china and russia have been predicting our demise for a very long time. Congressman adam smith, we have to end it there. I thank you very much indeed forjoining me on hardtalk. Thanks. Thank you. Appreciate the chance. Hello. Thanks forjoining me. Lets get a check on the weather for the next week or so, and concentrate on the short term, because storm babet is affecting the uk and torrential rain is expected across many parts of the country. Now, particularly Eastern Scotland, the met office has issued a rare red warning this is for thursday and into friday specifically for angus and southern parts of aberdeenshire. Well have a look at the details in just a second, but all of us are in for heavy rain. In fact, this is the accumulation of rainfall over the next few days, so widely, 20 30mm, but look at that in parts of Eastern Scotland, the northeast of england well in excess of 100mm, and east anglia in the southeast also in for a soaking, particularly towards the end of the week. Now, this is the forecast through the early hours of thursday. This is the Weather Front associated with storm babet moving northwards. A very specific area of heavy rainfall here, so its certainly not raining all the time in fact, to the south through the early hours, the skies may even clear for a time before further heavy showers sweep in from the south. Now, at the same time, very strong winds will start to develop, blowing out of the east or the southeast, a severe gale eventually on the north sea coast and especially around Eastern Parts of scotland, and i think at this stage, this is where we really will be running into problems across parts of Eastern Scotland. Yes, many parts of the country, sunny spells and some heavy showers, but its Eastern Scotland that bears the brunt of that rain. Now, Amber Warnings are in force in some spots. In excess of 100mm of rain here in the north highlands, other parts further east across scotland. Also, an Overlapping Wind Warning and thats the severe gale on that east coast but if we zoom in, so, Parts Of Angus and southern aberdeenshire within this area, the potential for extensive flooding and danger to life because the rain will be persistent, it will keep falling on that saturated ground, Flash Flooding is likely at river level, riverflooding is possible. You can see its a persistent easterly but, actually, as we go through the course of friday, the heavier Rain Transfers to areas further south, so its across england and specifically the central and southEastern Parts of england that get the heavier rain on friday. And then, through saturday and the rest of the weekend, this nasty area of low pressure is pretty much with us. Notice that strong easterly still pushing in the rain clouds, so its always Eastern Parts of the uk that get that heavy rain. So, heres that low. Once again, strong winds, up to gale force, pushing in yet more heavy rain into Eastern Parts of scotland and along the north sea coast. But the further west you are, the better the weather will be. So, actually, on saturday in belfast, its a cool 11 degrees celsius, but its probably going to be more bright at the very least. And then sunday morning, that low pressure starts to weaken. It moves a little bit further north and the winds start to change direction across the uk. So rather than that screaming easterly, those winds will start to blow in from the north and then, actually coming in from the South Southwest as well, so that means that the weather will start to dry out across the uk. I think a cool weekend on the way with temperatures of around 10 13 degrees, but its looking drier and brighter. However, beyond that, after the weekend, it does look as though things are going to turn once again very unsettled and we have a risk of torrential rain at times and also more galeforce winds. Thats it. Live from london, this is bbc news. The british Prime Minister heads to israel for talks about stopping the Conflict Spilling into the wider region, and the need for humanitarian aid to reach the people of gaza. The migrant accommodation barge, moored off the uks dorset coast, is restocked, ahead of the return of its residents. And russias foreign minister Sergei Lavrov thanks north korea for its loyal support over the war in ukraine. Hello. A very warm welcome to the programme. Im sally bundock. We start with israel and gaza uk Prime Minister rishi sunak will be in israel this morning. He will meet israeli Prime Minister benjamin netanyahu, and president isaac herzog, before travelling to a number of other regional capitals, in a diplomatic bid to prevent fighting from spiralling. Downing street says rishi sunak will express his condolences for the terrible loss of life in israel and gaza as a result of hamas� brutal terrorist attacks. He is also expected to press for humanitarian aid to reach people in gaza as soon as possible, and for british nationals trapped there to be able to leave. The uk foreign Secretaryjames Cleverly is also on a series of visits in the region, taking in egypt, turkey