Heard and what you saw . What ive seen is something from heard and what you saw . What ive seen is something from beyond heard and what you saw . What ivei seen is something from beyond the imagination. The only british or originated hospital, what we call baptism hospital, that was originated and established back in 1905, 06, its the only british origin hospital that was rocketed, and in front of me, by two rockets from these very speedy planes, i think its f16. From these very speedy planes, i think its f 16. The people in the hospital were not only i would say sick people, they are also people who has fled their homes, to seek refuge in that hospital. At least 5000 people were in that hospital and ruthlessly without mercy, the israeli army broke it into rockets in front of me. Top of those people, until now the number of martyrs and killed peoples, it is about 600 but to me, i think its much, much higherfor two reasons. First of all, the fire that is this, some of it is still inside, it has burned may be another 400 people at least, and the wreckage, on top of the people. They do not have a quick, do not have cranes so that we can help the people or take the people from below. What we see there is also for, beheaded heads a side part of the corpse and it is this is the biggest massacre, the biggest killing that has taken place in this century. And in front of the artists of the whole people, its our civilians, these are kids, its horrible, you cannot examine imagine how tough is this massacre, how tough the killing, the easy killing of these people. When you see them you see that there is no mercy whatsoever, and this sort of attack, im sorry to have this sort of emotion but its something that would break your heart, it would make you so, so angry from this International Community that they are not doing things, starting with the British Government, because myself i am a british person by the way. Ive been around, say, for the last 11 days to asking the British Government to do something or to take my me me and my family away for the last. ~. ,. ,. ,. , the last. What do you do, what sort of doctor the last. What do you do, what sort of doctor are the last. What do you do, what sort of doctor are you . The last. What do you do, what sort of doctor are you . I the last. What do you do, what sort of doctor are you . I am the last. What do you do, what sort of doctor are you . I am a i sort of doctor are you . I am a president sort of doctor are you . I am a president of sort of doctor are you . I am a president of the sort of doctor are you . I am a president of the universe sort of doctor are you . I am a president of the Universe University here locally but i live between manchester and gaza. So here locally but i live between manchester and gaza. So have you been into this manchester and gaza. So have you been into this Hospital Manchester and gaza. So have you been into this hospital before manchester and gaza. So have you been into this hospital before the l been into this hospital before the explosion tonight . Yes of course. So can you tell us a little bit about how it was organised . The whole s stem of how it was organised . The whole system of this how it was organised . The whole system of this hospital how it was organised . The whole system of this hospital is how it was organised . The whole system of this hospital is british. Because it is british hospital and they offer services, but when it is war, all the people, they flee their homes because they bombardment is everything, so they flee their homes. The only refuge our schools and hospitals, and unfortunately this hospital lies in the old part of gaza in the most crowded place, so everybody is going inside because they feel it say. But when i saw the rockets, the rocketing flesh, rocketing people, in an unmerciful way. They are civilians, children. I think this hospital, by the way it has a Church Inside called Saint Philips church. I think its also destroyed today. Flan philips church. I think its also destroyed today. Philips church. I think its also destroyed today. Can i ask you, because of destroyed today. Can i ask you, because of course destroyed today. Can i ask you, because of course there destroyed today. Can i ask you, because of course there is destroyed today. Can i ask you, because of course there is a destroyed today. Can i ask you, | because of course there is a war, there was fighting between the two sides. Was there hamas activity around this hospital . Ill sides. Was there hamas activity around this hospital . Sides. Was there hamas activity around this hospital . Ill tell you something around this hospital . Ill tell you something i around this hospital . Ill tell you something. Ithink around this hospital . Ill tell you something. I think the around this hospital . Ill tell you something. I think the israelis, i something. I think the israelis, they are fighting ghosts. Ghosts. We dont see any hamas militant in the street. �. , dont see any hamas militant in the street. �. ,. ,. , street. But we have seen out going rockets from street. But we have seen out going rockets from northern street. But we have seen out going rockets from Northern Gaza. Street. But we have seen out going rockets from Northern Gaza. What l street. But we have seen out going l rockets from Northern Gaza. What we see at the moment, rockets from Northern Gaza. What we see at the moment, a rockets from Northern Gaza. What we see at the moment, a curfew see at the moment, a curfew everywhere, and a continuous for the last 11 days, continuous bombardment, shelling of innocent people. On top of the buildings are being destroyed, on top of the people. 30, 40, 50 people. 0k, we got used to that number, until we are faced with this biggest massacre in new century, in this century. 50 in new century, in this century. So ou in new century, in this century. 50 you have not in new century, in this century. So you have not seen any outgoing rockets . Youve not seen, youve not seen then, any outgoing rockets from this part of gaza . Ha. Seen then, any outgoing rockets from this part of gaza . This part of gaza . No. We see rockets coming this part of gaza . No. We see rockets coming out this part of gaza . No. We see rockets coming out of this part of gaza . No. We see rockets coming out of gaza, l this part of gaza . No. We see i rockets coming out of gaza, yes, this part of gaza . No. We see rockets coming out of gaza, yes, but not tonight, and not from the hospital. Whatever you do, its not from the hospital. The hospital. I am an eyewitness, i have seen two rockets coming from an f 16 or f 35, shelling these people and killing them ruthlessly without any mercy, this is what ive seen and the reason the capacity of the other hospitals, its very limited, although there are about 30 or 40 ambulances around. But they do not have equipment. Because the borders are closed. You know that in order for me to go with you life, i have two arrange for a generator because we dont have electricity, we dont of water, we dont have food food, we dont have fuel. I think the matter should be looked at from a different angle. Killings must stop, civilians must stop, if you want to deal with the militants here, this is not the way to do it, this is not the way, to kill civilians around. Well get some reaction to that right now, professor, thank you very much for being with us. Mark, can you tell us what has happened . Mark, can you tell us what has ha ened . ,. ,. ,. , happened . The idf does not target hositals. Happened . The idf does not target hospitais we happened . The idf does not target hospitals. We dont happened . The idf does not target hospitals. We dont target hospitals. We dont target hospitals. Hospitals. We dont target hospitals. Hospitals. We dont target hospitals. Hospitals. We dont target hositals. ,. ,. , hospitals. You would have the coordinates hospitals. You would have the coordinates of hospitals. You would have the coordinates of this hospitals. You would have the coordinates of this hospital hospitals. You would have the | coordinates of this hospital and co ordinates of this hospital and anyone who was involved with targeting would have the co ordinates of this hospital . Right, we would not deliberately target a hospital. My information i just received from the highest authority, i knew you would ask me about this, is that all indications are that this was not israeli orders, that this was rather a hamas rocket that fell short. No i want to explain this. From past conflicts from the terrorists in gaza, we know on average about 33 of the rockets that they shoot at us fall short and land in gaza. Thats a fact, thats documented. Numbertwo, we land in gaza. Thats a fact, thats documented. Number two, we know that at the time of this tragedy in gaza, there was a barrage, a huge barrage against targets in central israel. I myself at that exact moment, we had the siren here in tel aviv and i went to a bomb shelter. So we know they fired rockets at that same time. Numberthree. Hamas put they fired rockets at that same time. Number three. Hamas put out a statement that they were sending a long rage rocket towards haifa at this time, the rocket never reached haifa where did it go, where did it land . It is clear that hamas always says israel atrocity. If you speak to people who come to speak to the bbc, they are living in gaza, the previous correspondent said he was a present of the hospital or something, it has no civil society. All senior officials have to be vetted by hamas, so of course its going to give the party line, its going to give the party line, its going to give the party line, its going to say israel, israel, israel. But i urge you to be cautious. There are indications, very very serious indications that its not us, hamas wants to have a Propaganda Victory saying israel has killed innocent civilians. There is no evidence to support that claim, lets just wait and see how this develops. Youll be aware of the and see how this develops. Youll be aware of the scenes and see how this develops. Youll be aware of the scenes that and see how this develops. Youll be aware of the scenes that are aware of the scenes that are developing over the arab world of the moment, these pictures are being beamed into everyones front rooms over the world. There will be a very angry reaction. The Israeli Government would be able to provide something given the enormity of what we are seeing here, that would support the case that youre making . I hope we would be able to. There was something similar in the previous round of fighting against islamichhad in gaza, i think that was in 2021, there was a situation where an explosion and a family was killed. I rememberthis where an explosion and a family was killed. I remember this distinctly. And they of course said israel, israel, israel. And in the end we managed to bring, it took two or three hours, we managed to bring a video showing the Missile Launch from gaza showing it falling short, and of course them in gaza were saying israel israel israel. We were able to prove that it was not israel. ,. ,. , able to prove that it was not israel. ,. ,. , , israel. This comes at a sensitive time, israel. This comes at a sensitive time. The israel. This comes at a sensitive time, the president israel. This comes at a sensitive time, the president is israel. This comes at a sensitive time, the president is about israel. This comes at a sensitive time, the president is about to l israel. This comes at a sensitive i time, the president is about to go on a plane to israel tonight, to understand the war plan better and of course to try and make some headway with the humanitarian situation. 0ur Correspondentjohn Dennison said a short time ago, this is a potential game changer. That must have occurred to people at the highest level in israel. Highest level in israel. Thats exactly why highest level in israel. Thats exactly why weve highest level in israel. Thats exactly why weve had highest level in israel. Thats exactly why weve had no highest level in israel. Thats exactly why weve had no interest in doing any such thing, it makes no sense that israel did this, and it would make sense that hamas would make Propaganda Value about one of their missiles falling short, that is exactly their playbook. If you say the arab world, unfortunately you. Aljazeera and as a pan arab network they will put out the hamas narrative. So i understand its a problem, dont get me wrong. I understand its a severe problem. But if were interested in truth and not in propaganda, lets wait and see. All the indications i hear is this is not israel. Im hearing that from the highest authority from the israeli military. Nowi from the highest authority from the israeli military. Now i hope, i believe will be able to say, show something conclusive shortly but at the moment all im asking you at the bbc to do is lets be patient, lets wait for proof. You cannot base your reporting on hamas propaganda. I understand that, which is why we have been circumspect this evening, i understand the situation on the ground. Listen, weve heard from one doctor tonight who was at rafa, he. They have hundreds of patients incoming they have barely any fuel barely any supplies, there were strikes on the rafah Border Crossing today, there is targeting at that order because of the tunnels underneath the wall. But something has to change, mark, to alleviate the pressure on the hospitals specifically. Is that going to be part of the conversation when President Biden arrives . Im part of the conversation when President Biden arrives . Im sure, but what i want President Biden arrives . Im sure, but what i want to President Biden arrives . Im sure, but what i want to remind President Biden arrives . Im sure, but what i want to remind you but what i want to remind you yesterday we allowed tankers with petrol, six large tankers with petrol, six large tankers with petrol into the gaza strip. Thea;r petrol into the gaza strip. They have ust petrol into the gaza strip. They have just told petrol into the gaza strip. They have just told us petrol into the gaza strip. They have just told us that petrol into the gaza strip. They have just told us that fuel petrol into the gaza strip. They have just told us that fuel was already in gaza it was their supplies, it wasnt diverted by hamas which i heard you say earlier, unless you have reports otherwise. I believe they put out a Country Statement and then change it, they ultimately have to work in gaza under a hamas regime and ultimately have to work in gaza undera hamas regime and i understand they are constraints. But they did put out a statement which they did put out a statement which they tweeted and then deleted it saying that hamas gunmen had come and take in the fuel. If you have any doubt that hamas, thats the only force in gaza that has that kind of organised power, is that not a pattern of diverting him terrien aid . Cement to build houses but then it goes to build tunnels, petrol goes instead of generators goes to hamas . That you just have to look at what they did to us that massacre. Do these people have any qualms about harming human beings . They treat, butchered my people. And they treat, butchered my people. And they treat their own people atrociously. There is all this aid piled up now about an hourfrom there is all this aid piled up now about an hour from the gaza border, what is the stumbling block to get a gutin . What is the stumbling block to get a gut in . Who is standing in the way of moving that aid through the gates at rafah . , at rafah . There are a number of concerns i at rafah . There are a number of concerns i can at rafah . There are a number of concerns i can share at rafah . There are a number of concerns i can share with at rafah . There are a number of concerns i can share with you concerns i can share with you israels concern. The egyptians can speak to them selves. We ensure that humanitarian aid reaches the people its supposed to reach. We dont want supplies that have potential Military Applications to reach hamas, like fuel. Fuel for hospitals, israel has no problem for that, but if hamas is going to come as they did yesterday, if they are going and put it into their Military Machine, we dont want their Military Machine to have fuel. Thats just one example, so wed like to have assurances, we like to have arrangements on the ground that make sure that aid for gaza, for the people of gaza actually goes to the people of gaza actually goes to the people of gaza actually goes to the people of gaza. Now no one can guarantee that today, but we are working closely with our international parties, partners, we might not have 100 guarantee but well have greater certainty that aid will actually reach the people its supposed to reach and not the terrorists who are trying to, lets be frank, were to kill them. The jordanian be frank, were to kill them. The jordanian king be frank, were to kill them. The jordanian king has said tonight that Palestinian Refugees should not be allowed to go through the border to Camps Injordan or in egypt. Can the Israeli Government protect the civilians in the southern part of gaza without them being moved to Refugee Camps outside the strip . Will do as best we can. Id like to be able to tell you that not a single palestinian civilian is going to be killed in this conflict, but of course i cant. There hasnt been a conflict in modern history, in europe, an issue a or the middle east, where there hasnt been innocent civilians. We east, where there hasnt been innocent civilians. East, where there hasnt been innocent civilians. We are at the 3000 market innocent civilians. We are at the 3000 market but innocent civilians. We are at the 3000 market but were innocent civilians. We are at the 3000 market but were just innocent civilians. We are at the l 3000 market but were just getting started, we are 3000 already. Christian, with respect, that figure is coming out of the hamas controlled Ministry Of Health in gaza. We dont know how many of them are hamas fighters and how many of them are innocent civilians. It if its 3000 hamas fighters i would say we have been doing a good job. You have no way of knowing those numbers, no one has. There is no independent Fact Checking on these things. Ive got no doubt that innocent people are being caught up innocent people are being caught up in the crossfire and we want to minimise that, so thats why we asked people to move out of Northern Gaza and i understand that hundreds of thousands of people have moved out of Northern Gaza because we note its going to be very very fierce fighting. Is that not the difference between israel and hamas . We are asking people to move out of what we know will be a combat zone, in order to save their lives. And hamas demands they stay, tell them they have to become martyrs to they crazy cause and actually puts up barriers to prevent them from leaving. What does that say . Is actually an irony, christian. We are supposed to be the enemies of the palestinians, we are taking steps to save lives, and hamas that claims to speak for palestinians, they are doing everything they can to put them in danger, what is the logic . I everything they can to put them in danger, what is the logic . Everything they can to put them in danger, what is the logic . I want to understand danger, what is the logic . I want to understand something. Danger, what is the logic . I want to understand something. It danger, what is the logic . I want to understand something. It is understand something. It is unprecedented for a president to come to a Conflict Zone at the outset, as a Ground Incursion is potentially about to get under way. There are two stray groups, marines on standby, he clearly feels he needs face to face time with the Prime Minister. What has changed in the last week . What is behind this, because there is something, there something there that requires face to face time between these two leaders. I facetoface time between these two leaders. �. Facetoface time between these two leaders. ~ � ,. , facetoface time between these two leaders. ~ � ,. , , leaders. I think its more simple than that leaders. I think its more simple than that i leaders. I think its more simple than that. L think leaders. I think its more simple than that. L think the leaders. I think its more simple than that. I think the whole than that. I think the whole civilised world was shocked and appalled and hoard by hamas barbaric attack on Israeli Citizens on october seven, that massacre. They were shocked by the burning some of the rapes, the burning of people alive. Piles of bodies in pits when they were massacred, the young people of the movie music festival. This was a line drawn in the sand. The International Community has lined up and said this is unacceptable. Hamas must be dismantled, must be eliminated, this is a force and President Bidens words, it is sheer evil. Its not just the americans. Its true President Biden is visiting israel tomorrow, but weve got the british Prime Minister do as well, the french president , the german chancellor today, the whole International Community is lining up behind israel. They see the enemy we face. You know, there were some people in the International Community who have illusions about hamas, they said well, they are governing 2. 3 Million People in gaza, that forces them to be more responsible, that forces them to be more pragmatic. You know, the responsibilities of government will force a change. No. We saw on saturday last week, they havent changed. They are bloodied extremists, capable of the most heinous crimes against humanity. We experienced it ourselves as we speak, there are some 200 israelis being held hostage in dark dungeons across the gaza strip. These people are brutal terrorists, they have to be destroyed, and just as a coalition of many countries destroyed places� Territorial Bases in iraq and syria, we will destroy the Territorial Base in gaza, they will not, when this is over, hamas� meant structure will be dismantled and their Military Machine will be decimated. ,. , and their Military Machine will be decimated decimated. Some clarifications whether there decimated. Some clarifications whether there will decimated. Some clarifications whether there will be decimated. Some clarifications whether there will be a decimated. Some clarifications whether there will be a groundj whether there will be a Ground Offensive in the last one if i was, have the israelis given any assurances to President Biden that plans will be put on hold while he is in country . Plans will be put on hold while he isincount . ~ ,. , is in country . With your permission, i refer to is in country . With your permission, i prefer to keep is in country . With your permission, i prefer to keep the is in country . With your permission, i prefer to keep the hamas is in country . With your permission, i prefer to keep the hamas military l i prefer to keep the hamas Military Machine guessing as to israel� s next move. I think that� s pleasant probably sensible from our point of view. ,. ,. ,. ,. ,. , probably sensible from our point of view. ,. ,. , probably sensible from our point of view. ,. ,. , view. Good to have you on the show this evening view. Good to have you on the show this evening. You view. Good to have you on the show this evening. You heard view. Good to have you on the show this evening. You heard what view. Good to have you on the show this evening. You heard what he view. Good to have you on the show| this evening. You heard what he was saying, the israelis are busy investigating, i� m trying to come up the evidence that mark to support the evidence that mark to support the case that mark has just set out, let� s speak to our correspondent in gaza, rushdie i doctors were treating people in the corridor of the hospital. Thea;r doctors were treating people in the corridor of the hospital. Corridor of the hospital. They were doinu corridor of the hospital. They were doing surgeries corridor of the hospital. They were doing surgeries for corridor of the hospital. They were doing surgeries for people corridor of the hospital. They were doing surgeries for people who corridor of the hospital. They were i doing surgeries for people who were seriously injured. Volunteers of people, nurses, volunteers, the student of the medical and universities, rushing to the hospital to support the doctors in the hospital are really struggling to save people� s lives. It� s like more than three hours now, since the explosion in the hospital. And the. The people still trying to remove the rubble and find survivor, transporting, finding the bodies, taking the bodies to the hospital, there is no place to put the bodies. They put the bodies in a courtyard of the hospital. And they have been making surgeries in the street. From the hospital, they are doing surgeries, you know surgeries not in the. But in the courtyard of the hospital. Very very horrific scenes spreading now on social media, but most most have not heard of this, people can� t access the internet, can� t watch this on to become a very very small number of people who have solar or their own generator who can watch and see what� s going on. This hospital is one of the oldest hospitals and it� s literally in the centre of gaza 0ldtown. And it� s like, like ten metres only from the Main Commercial street in gaza. It� s surrounded by two big cemeteries and the area is very well known. It� s not hospital like the hospital they can receive injuries, it� s a medical centre. They could treat special cases. Treated refugee or part of the vulnerable. The process, people were shocked when they heard that this hospital was targeted. Look, yesterday and today, this hospital is the closest one in the neighbourhood, was sending messages to people to evacuate, to leave the area full stop that they could not travel from the north to the south where israel said it� s more say. They decided to do two things. It is a complex of school around the area, people flee to schools, thousands of people flee to schools, thousands of people in the school, then the School Capacity became full or overfull, people decided to go to the hospital. We are having similar situation here in this hospital where i� m standing now. These people flee from gaza and from the border, underground and in the hospital, very same situation happened with those in the hospital. That� s why we have seen this high number of people as they come up Palestinian Ministry now confirm 500 people already killed. , now confirm 500 people already killed. ,. ,. , now confirm 500 people already killed. ,. ,. , killed. There are people on social media who killed. There are people on social media who heard killed. There are people on social media who heard our killed. There are people on social media who heard our interview i killed. There are people on social l media who heard our interview with mark, that he was allowed to tell us that this was hamas, it is very difficult for us sitting in this position to know what the true picture is on the ground. We can� t because we are still trying to verify the pictures and still trying to piece things together. How would you react to what mark said about the outgoing rocket fire and his thoughts that this was a rocket that fell short . ~ �. Fell short . Well its in the middle ofthe fell short . Well its in the middle of the dark. Fell short . Well its in the middle of the dark, the fell short . Well its in the middle of the dark, the middle fell short . Well its in the middle of the dark, the middle of fell short . Well its in the middle of the dark, the middle of the of the dark, the middle of the night. Most people are indoors and it� s very hard to find a witness that saw this. I had, like my sister, she literally lives like 50 60 sister, she literally lives like 50 60 metres from the border of this hospital. Very difficult communication, i managed to talk to my nephew. I asked him what happened, he said we don� t know, we just heard two explosions and we thought they are just hitting something, and then suddenly he said he started to see hundreds of ambulances and people are shouting, running in the streets. So we rushed to the scene and he said we were shocked to see like hundreds, hundreds of bodies on the ground, blood everywhere. People shouting, so people started to transfer the serious injuries in their cars, the issue of the rockets is always sensitive. Because when hamas fire rockets it is always Security Situation and people stay in indoors because they are targeting different places. The hospitals are without medical. Life saving kids are running out in the hospital. They were even before this mass casualties to the hospital, so the hospital was already overwhelmed by hundreds both top we� re talking about 10,000 people injured since the october seven, and most of them are still in the hospital, imagine this hospital which overwhelmed struggling over the situation with very little fuel they have, and suddenly there is 500 people either killed or seriously injured. So the situation is critical and there is no way for anybody to help except the people around because israeli drones are flying overhead and israel said that people were, have to leave the area where the hospital is so here there are 6000 people who live in gaza city and the north they are now displaced in the south part of the hospital where israel told they were to go, overnight, they killed 200 people, like hundred 70 of them 170 of them, if no place in a safe why do we have to sleep in the street coupled will go back to all of our houses in gaza city and at least we have a place to sleep. I have seen people sitting in the streets and about this displacing, i know the story about the hospital is big, but the consequences around this and what has led to this is israel, like a couple days ago they said go south, because it� s safe. They have been sending messages, voice is recorded. I was one of those who took this trip, i had to leave my house with hundreds of thousands of people and we drove south, nobody was stopping us, we drove all the way, people were walking cows and camels and sheep, and we arrived to this city. The city is crowded, full of people from the north, they don� t know where to 90. The north, they don� t know where to go, there is in the hospital, there is no space in the area, and they sleep on the ground. Rafa h rafah at least 500 people have been killed, this is a hospital that was providing shelter for 4000 people and you can see the pictures at this hospital overnight, a hospital that was already under incredible pressure, you are watching bbc news. Hello, i� m christian fraser. This is the context. To be clear, the idf does not target hospitals. That� s a sensitive site, it� s a humanitarian site. We don� t target hospitals. The people in the hospital, they were not only, i would say, sick people. They are also people who has fled their homes, to seek refuge in that hospital. Some 4,000 people are. Sheltering at this hospital, while the United States has been standing while the United States has been standing by while the United States has been standing by firmly while the United States has been standing by firmly behind while the United States has been standing by firmly behind israel, i while the United States has been. Standing by firmly behind israel, it is israeis standing by firmly behind israel, it is israels strongest standing by firmly behind israel, it is israels strongest ally, standing by firmly behind israel, it is israels strongest ally, it standing by firmly behind israel, it is israels strongest ally, it has is israels strongest ally, it has at the is israels strongest ally, it has at the same is israels strongest ally, it has at the same time is israels strongest ally, it has at the same time been is israels strongest ally, it has at the same time been urging. Is israels strongest ally, it has at the same time been urging israel to try at the same time been urging israel to try to at the same time been urging israel to try to minimise to try to minimise civilian casualties. At least 500 people have been killed in an israeli air strike on a hospital in gaza city. Officials say that there may be hundreds of victims in the rubble. The Israeli Army Say they believe the strike on the hospital was from a Rocket Barrage fired by palestinian militants. There are crowds of Prosteters Gathering In Ramallah and around the arab world. 3000 palestinians are dead. The un says an even bigger catastrophe is upon us. With barely five days of food and water left for two million palestinians