Husam zomlot, welcome to hardtalk. Husam, i want to start with something personal. You yourfamily is from the south of gaza. When you heard of the murderous attack that hamas had launched on israel on october 7, did you immediately realise that this was going to put your family and so many others in gaza in extraordinary danger . Yes, absolutely. Not only my family, but all people in gaza and my entire nation, because i knew israel will instrumentalise this in the most horrible way possible. And this is exactly what happened, trying to link hamas to the Palestinian People, and then link hamas to isis, then linking the Palestinian People to isis, in preparation for this horror we are witnessing right this moment. Surely, the message israel was making and was bound to make was between hamas and unbelievable levels of barbarity and violence . And what they had to do was commit to destroy hamas. We have to listen to what the israeli officials and politicians and fanatics have been saying for years, including netanyahu, and his finance minister, who was in paris very recently. And he said there is no such thing as Palestinian People. And in front of his platform was the map of palestine and jordan. Im sure you remember that. We have to believe netanyahu, when he goes to the un and has a map that does not include any palestinian presence. The entire historic palestine is, for him, israel. We have to believe the Defence Minister when he says palestinians are simply. Human animals. Israel was preparing since october 7 for these mass destructions. Israel was preparing for the mass slaughter, not of hamas, but of my people. 2,800 already 100 were killed until you got the last update, and the numbers will rise. 1,000 of those 2,800 are children. 1,000 are still under rubble as we speak. Yes, and i want to get to your personal experience in a moment. But what youve just said will sound, to israeli ears and many others, frankly, as a perversion of what happened on october 7. On october 7, hamas launched a surprise, an unprecedented attack which killed more than 1,400 israelis, many of them children, some of them babies. You know that, i know that. In terms of human empathy, can you not understand what that has done to israel, to its people, to the feelings of notjust grief and loss, but of rage that have ensued . Hamas is a political militia group. We are the Palestinian Government and representative. The plo is the sole legitimate representative of the Palestinian People. Wait, wait, wait. When you say that. You ask, let me answer, please give me time to answer. You cannot equate that with a government that you recognise that is a member of the united nations, that is israel, with a group. Do not equate that. And from day one, i have been asked this question about condemnation. And we are very clear, we have said not october 7, for 30 years that we do not condone violence on all sides, particularly civilians. 0ur position has been clear, and since october 7, 22 arab states governments, including my government, condemned the targeting of civilians from all sides. You know what is missing in there . The israeli condemnation of the atrocities not only since october 7, but for the last 106 years. I want to talk personal. I want to talk what is actually happening cos it is important. So i want to know for yourfamily, some of whom were killed in the bombardment of the last ten days, what is happening to your family today . Because we must talk about the humanitarian situation in gaza today. So what is happening right now . I know you speak to family every day, almost every hour. What is happening is almost like they are living a horror movie of standards out of your own imagination. Horror, horror. A part of my extended family were wiped out just at the beginning of the israeli onslaught and bombardment. My cousin, her husband, her two children, other two children, twin, 2. 5 years old. Both of them have been in intensive care. Ive learned last night that one of them lost his life. And then my sister, who lives in the south of gaza, had to receive all of her friends. There is a state of solidarity between people and now in her home, that is rather small for one family, there is 150 people. This is what gaza is living now. Gaza is living, millions. There are questions, very real questions, facing all of the people in gaza and those who are actors in this diplomatic, as well as military arena. There are questions facing them every single hour. Lets start with one a humanitarian corridor to get supplies through rafah, from egypt, into gaza. As you understand it, is it going to happen . Theres an awful lot of negotiation around that. This has been our main pressure from the beginning. A ceasefire, humanitarian corridors, respect for International Humanitarian law. Israel has refused that completely. I was completely astonished to hear the israeli ambassador to the uk this morning, refusing to say that there is a humanitarian crisis, even saying there is no such thing as humanitarian crisis abhorrent, really abhorrent. This is the type of hasbara we are dealing with. Gaza is living its worst moments, and you know what . The starting point, the bar was very low. You know what has been happening to gaza over a long period of time. One of the most pressing humanitarian crises in gaza is the fact that up to 150, some say up to almost 200 israeli captives are being held by hamas gunmen inside gaza, in subterranean tunnels. Do you now, representing the Palestinian Authority which at the beginning of this conversation you claimed was still the voice of the Palestinian People are you prepared to say here and now, those people, those captives, must be released without precondition . I am prepared to tell you that we want to see all captives and hostages released immediately, and their safety must be kept. Yes, of course, we stick to our commitments under International Law and we want that to happen. All those but we also have. Hang on, when you say all, you are clearly implying that there should be a deal between the palestinian prisoners held in israeli prisons. Deal or no deal, israel has been rounding people illegally. There are many who are there for years without trial or charge. There are children. There are old people. There are women, yes. There are women being held in tunnels under gaza today. Do you call upon those who hold them to release them without condition, now . Rules, International Rules must be applied here, 0k . And we have been calling for the red cross, who should be negotiating this to come in israel has blocked the red cross. We have been calling for third parties to come in. Egypt has been pressuring to open the crossing for humanitarian aid. We want the full force of the International Community to sort your questions right now. But International Law is very clear. You know, israel has been taking 2. 3 million palestinians in gaza hostage for 16 years. So, please, lets not discuss hostages. This is a moment when the world help both sides come to the right conclusion. Lets not discuss hostages is not a position which is going to win you a single new ear, new audience in israel. How can you say, lets not discuss hostages . Rights of hostages have to be respected. From day one, i, and i think all those i represent have been clear that they must be kept safe, that they should return safely. This is our culture, this is our policy, this is our belief. You tell me, what option does israel have but to seek and deliver the complete destruction of hamas after what has happened . Israel is not after that. No, no, tell me what option it has but to seek hamas� s elimination. Ask them that question, israel has. I tell you, what is the real option israel has. To eliminate its illegal occupation. You know, your moral compass, you and i i look at you as an International Mainstream media is almost located like a snapshot on october 7. Your moral compass needs to be located since 1917, 106 years ago, when this country, britain, issued the balfour declaration, denying us nationhood and peopleshood. When they turned us into non jewish minorities in our homeland. We were stephen, look at me we were, 96. Im looking and im listening. Now, 96 of the population owning 98 of the land. And we were turned into non Jewish Population that did not even arrive yet. They were about to emigrate to palestine. Then, with the greatest of respect. The moral then the moral compass. That situation was in place when you and your colleagues in the palestinian liberation 0rganisation chose to make a Two State Solution peace with israel. So lets not get stuck on 1917. No, no, no, no. If you want to talk history, its more useful, surely, to talk about the history of the last 30 years. Dont strip it of context, and dont strip the uk of its own responsibility historic, and legal and moral and the International Community. What i want is a fruitful discussion which may yield some clues as to where we go from here. You are part of a group, the palestinian liberation 0rganisation, but particularly Yasser Arafat, fatah, what became the Palestinian Authority took a key strategic decision in the early 1990s to pursue a two state negotiated solution with israel, right . True, accurate. And right through the early 1990s, you got the oslo accords. It appeared that that peace might be achieved. The organisation most determined to destroy that peace was hamas, who, in the mid to late1990s, started letting off the Suicide Bombs in israel, which radicalised the israeli population and which, over time, saw that 0slo dream die. Is it not time for you to recognise that hamas is your strategic enemy . It is my time to be accurate and true and represent the very plight of my own people. What you just said is true. We, the plo, we, the National Movement, Yasser Arafat have took a very brave decision 30 years ago exactly. There were three sides to that equation. There was us, and we were asked to do three things recognise israel, commit to negotiations and nonviolence, and commit to International Resolutions and international legitimacy. We have done that since then, until this moment. The second party was israel. It was supposed to roll back its occupation and stop its illegal colonial settlement expansion. The third party was the us Led International mediators. They were supposed to provide guarantees and accountability. We did our part of the bargain and these 30 years, israel has quadrupled settlements and, stephen, you know very well you are very well read and you follow the situation what has devastated the prospects of a solution, based on international legality, was israels colonial expansion to take as much of the land with as less of the people. Because you are also following this very closely from many different perspectives, you know that i talk to israeli politicians, have done in the last week, and asked them very tough questions about precisely the sorts of policies that youve just alluded to. But right now, with you, my responsibility, i believe, is to talk about your relationship with hamas. I asked you if you saw hamas as an enemy. Let me just quote to you something that ismail haniyeh, political chief of hamas, said, from, it has to be said, the safety of doha, qatar, after the october 7 attack. He said, we are now in the ultimatejihad, the outcome of which can only be victory or martyrdom. Haniyeh wants to claim your dead relatives as martyrs for his jihad. How do you feel about it . You ask haniyeh for that. No, im asking you for that. Youve just lost members of your family. You ask haniyeh for that. Im asking you, because you are grieving for members of your family who haniyeh says are martyrs in his struggle. 0k, stephen, ijust told you, hamas isjust a group, we are the government. The ones who killed my relatives are the israeli army. The bomb that blowed their heads were israeli made, maybe american made, but sent by israeli jet fighters. Do you not think that. Lets compare. Hamas wanted. No, no, no. Israel to respond. Thats why about the snap. Thats why, about the snap shot politics and media. You think my relatives have just been killed only in the last week . Theyve been killed over 100 years by the same weapons, by the same instigator. Hamas was created only 20, 30 years ago. Lets not reduce everything and blame everything onjust some group here or there. This is unfair, stephen, and it doesnt give in give justice to the people i lost. It doesnt give justice to the people i lost. I want to go back to the moral compass. Hang on. I want to go back to the moral compass, please. We were denied, for 160 years, our very basic rights. There was an international consensus, Un Security Council resolutions, israel has got to end its occupation immediately. And then 30 years ago, 1993, Oslo International consensus, two states, a state of palestine. Consensus, except one country. 0ne country that is israel. It has blocked. And one hugely important palestinian organisation, that is hamas. Israel has so many. Im sorry, but right now. You are drawing no, no, no, this is unfair. We need to talk about hamas. Hang on, ill tell you why, because. Talk about hamas with hamas. You know ghassan khatib. Talk to me about. Very well, a former palestinian minister, and he says this, this week, he says, events in gaza are increasing the political weight of hamas and decreasing the political weight and influence of the Palestinian Authority. And your boss, mahmoud abbas, because, he says, now is the time for fighting, and the popular parties in palestine are the parties involved in the fighting. You fear that to be true, dont you . Dont make this an inter palestinian issue. We are united as a people, forget about these factions. But youre not. We are. How do you not believe. . No, we are. I do not believe that. No, no, believe it. Husam zomlot thinks that. Dont believe whatever. The murderous attack in israel on october 7 was justifiable, was right. I simply dont believe you think that. No, ijust told you we condemn the targeting of civilians from all sides. And i told you, very clearly, that 22 states with us have done so. The entire region. Theyre missing from that condemnation and responsibility and commitment is from israel. So youre asking the wrong people, the wrong questions, stephen. And not only you, the entire international media, the wrong questions. And why dont you ask me about the kahanist groups in Israeli Government now, that you recognise and you legitimise, and you celebrate, and you want to have the unequivocal support for them all the time. Why dont you ask me about ben gvir, who has been handing weapons to israeli civilians over the last week machine guns . Why dont you ask me about smotrich, who published publicly a Paper Calling for palestinians to choose between three options, publicly . Either we accept being slaves in our own land, or we leave en masse, as they are doing in gaza, trying, attempting at mass expulsion. And the third option, he says it, you are going to get killed. So ask me about those people. Let me ask you. And you know what . Those people are in government, hamas is not in government. If i may ask you a question, it is actually about whats happening in the west bank because it is deeply alarming. Youve alluded to the very far right wing nature of many of the Cabinet Ministers in netanyahus government. What we have seen this year is an unprecedented level of violence, which has seen enormous numbers of palestinians, more than ever before, in that timeframe, killed. In the last ten days, weve seen 55 palestinians killed in the west bank and in eastjerusalem. The question for you in the Palestinian Authority is, can you keep a lid on the tension and the violence, which is so clearly on the brink of something so much worse in the west bank . If the world, particularly western powers, take the responsibilities seriously, if they implement what they created, the rules based, you know, world order, we will be fine. If they curb this government of fanatics. And you are absolutely right. We are very concerned about what is happening in the west bank. There has been numerous accounts of settler violence, militias, Settler Militias, and youve seen what has been happening over the last few months. Thats why i keep talking about the snapshot, this. Murderous militias, Settler Militias in huwara, in nablus, in hebron al khalil, in ramallah, everywhere, injerusalem. At the beginning of this year, the Palestinian Authority, you have had a degree of Security Cooperation and coordination with israel thats now ended. But we know that there are armed Palestinian Militants in many palestinian towns and cities across the west bank. Ijust ask you one more time, is the pa, right now, determined to try to control levels of violence in the west bank . The pa is determined on one thing, one thing now to protect its own people. Thats our task, thats our mission. Thats why we are there, to protect our people, by all means possible. And our most significant way of doing so is by bringing the world to take up its own responsibility. We are in 24 hour conversations with all leaders, all our diplomatic hopes are engaging right now, and our main mission is to protect our people. This is not the time to talk about this. But youve just said about armed struggle, just now. You know it, hamas was created recently. I mean, its us, the plo, the National Movement who started. Well, hamas was created in the 1980s, as weve discussed, and they became active as a violent militant organisation in the 1990s. Ok, i want to ask a question. Now, in the face of this very clear reality in israel, they, those in government, do not want to create or end the conflict by ending their occupation. They are not interested. Youve heard netanyahu numerous times. Please believe him, he means it. He is not going to give us our rights. What do we do . We tried the armed struggle, and the world, of course, instigated by israel, called us terrorists. By the way, the plo is still designated in the us congress as a terrorist organisation, 30 years after we signed the oslo accords and after we committed to all that. So this isntjust about hamas. Then we move to popular peaceful resistance and international activism. Joining the un, joining the icc, joining the icj, as you remember, trying to bring some accountability. That is called diplomatic terrorism to the israelis. And then all our peaceful demonstrators when our peaceful demonstrators go to protest the Israeli Occupation and colonisation and besiegement and apartheid, they are shot and killed under the pretext they are violent activists. And when your people come out in the streets by the thousands, like last saturday, they are called anti semites. And when even many, manyjewish people, freedom loving jewish people, support the cause of palestine, they are called self hating jew. Stephen, you are a veteran. Hang on, im were almost out of time, i want to ask. We are a veteran, what do we do . What rights do we have . Do we have rights . Do we have the right . Lets address. No, no, i want to ask. The longer term, in a final question, which you very free to answer. Do we have the right to defend ourselves . Do we have the right to resist these illegalities . You are. And what are these rights . I want the world to tell us. Listen. So we stick. If i may, lets ask the last question. Why the Palestinian People are always made to be the exception to every rule . Why israel is always made to be above all of our rules . This is the real conversation, why is the Prime Minister here . Husam, youre here, actually, to answer my question. So let me try one last question. Youve been a diplomat for a long time, particularly focused on making the palestinian case in western capitals. Does it not strike you that if, as an outcome to this terrible violence that we are seeing today, that hamas is effectively taken out of the game, the arena, it may be that they could, in the long run, be the space, finally, to talk about a peace between those two peoples, palestinians and israelis, who share this small chunk of land between Thejordan River and the mediterranean sea. Getting rid of hamas can help, can it not . What we need to get rid of, and then leave hamas to the Palestinian People, because you cannot defeat ideologies with bullets as israel is trying to do, and rockets, they will end up in the bare bodies of babies, these rockets. You defeat ideologies and the ballot, not the bullet, the ballot box. And i assure you, the Palestinian People will deliver their verdict because they do not want to see, except a government that will build up, that will send them to prosperity, give them opportunities. However, to get there, the first condition is that israel ends its occupation. We need to ensure International Humanitarian law now is applied at full and equally. Think of ukraine. We need to make sure that accountability happens so this is not repeated. Atrocities have been committed against the Palestinian People long before hamas was created. Thirdly, we need to implement International Resolutions, not negotiate them. And i believe, as you do, this could serve as a wake up call, as an alarm, that there is no way you can bypass the legitimate rights of the Palestinian People, and there is no way you can repeat a second nakba. And we have to end there. But, husam zomlot, i thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk. Thank you. The weather has felt crisp the last few days an felt fairly calm and quiet for the next day or. So mainly dry conditions with some frost and sunshine, but all change in the weather from midweek onwards. Turning windy, some heavy rain on the way hand thats all courtesy of our second named storm of the season. Storm babett. Its moving its way from the canary isles, across the bay at biscayne and move in towards sures of the uk. Particularly from wednesday to saturday thats when were expecting some heavy rain, lots of isobars on the map and that indicates some strong winds around as well. Just take a look at the Rainfall Accumulation were expecting between wednesday and saturday. Widely around 30 to 40mm, but look at this area across the east of scotland. We could see 150200mm east of scotland. We could see 150 200mm of rain, extremely heavy rain. Thats going to cause some disruption. Combined with strong winds and large waves too. But back to the here and now, and tuesday is a quiet day weather wise, plenty of seasonshine. Sunshine. Cloudier skies further south and we could see some rain in cornwall and devionshire. Moving through tuesday evening that rain continues is progress northwards, the wet weather moving across parts of Northern Ireland and scotland as well. Some clearer spells through central parts of the uk but further showers moving into the south. So wont be as cold as recent nights. Looking at frost free conditions with the breeze, cloud and outbreaks of rain. Heading through wednesday, though, we got this first area of low pressure moving its way, gradually northwards and then see another area of low pressure really merging with that from the atlantic. So some spells of rain on wednesday, initially across scotland and then parts of Northern Ireland, wales and Southern England as well, some of this rain could be quite heavy, thundery and look at the winds, the gusts could reach around 35 to 45mph. Really quite widely on wednesday. So youll notice the wind picking up. It will be a little bit milder so temperatures 17, 18 degrees along the south coast, perhaps even 20 degrees for the channel islands, a little bit cooler in the north west of the uk. But overnight wednesday into thursday, then we really see storm babett getting going, this next area of low pressure thats going to merge with the first storm system keep this is area of rain slow moving with a feed of easterly winds across parts of eastern and central scotland. So Rainfall Totals mounting up there but even further south some heavy downpours quite widely across parts of england and wales. Gusts of winds widely 40 50mph across scotland but we could see 60 70mph across east coast of scotland across the northern aisles as well. Temperatures around 11 to 18. But plenty of heavy downpours. As we head through into friday that storm system, that area of low pressure still really sitting across southern parts of the uk, the windiest weather will be in the north over Northern England and scotland and more rain driving in on these easterly winds. Could see some heavy rain across the southeast of england too. More showery in nature the further west you are. Is but it is going to be a mild despite all the rain and the wind. So into the weekend then things a little bit cooler for a time but still unsettled into next week with that mix of a few spells of sunshine but plenty of downpours too. Bye, bye. Live from london, this is bbc news. Us President Biden will visit tel aviv on wednesday to reaffirm support for israel as it prepares a Ground Offensive into gaza. Gazas Health System is on the verge of collapse, the un says, as israel continues its siege and air strikes aimed at destroying hamas. And two people are shot dead in a Terror Attack in brussels. The gunman is still at large. Hello. I am sally bundock. A warm welcome to the programme. We begin with this news. The us president , joe biden, will visit israel on wednesday in a show of support after more than 1,400 people were killed by hamas gunmen last weekend. Top us diplomat Antony Blinken made the announcement after late night talks in tel aviv. He also said the us and israel had agreed on a plan to allow humanitarian aid into gaza where un agencies have warned of a deepening humanitarian crisis, and more than 2,800 people have been killed