Assessing the first week of the israel gaza conflict. Hello. Imjackie leonard, the host of the Global News Podcast. Today, weve teamed up with a new bbc podcast, the conflict, for a special programme, answering your questions about whats going on in israel and gaza. Werejoined by the host of the conflict, the bbc� s chief International Correspondent lyse doucet, who is in ashdod in israel, north of gaza, and also by our International Editor jeremy bowen, whos injerusalem. So welcome, lyse. A relatively easy question to kick off with. Can you give us a sense of the size and location of gaza in relation to israel . Who lives there . Whos in charge . And who are its neighbours . Well, thats a sort of a wikipedia of the gaza strip. The gaza strip is a coastal strip of land on the mediterranean. Once on one side, its on the mediterranean. The other side, the southern side, its connecting to egypt. And then its other neighbour is israel. It is described as one of the most densely populated places on earth. Some 2. 3 million palestinians live there and they live with great frustration because they feel they dont really have control over their lives. Even though israel pulled out its troops in 2005, it controls the airspace. It controls the sea. It also controls all of the land crossings into gaza, it also controls all of the land crossings into gaza, except the one which goes to egypt, which is called the rafah crossing. Weve tried to use various measures to say how big it is for british viewers. Its about as big as the Isle Of Wight. For people who live in north america, its about the size of washington, dc. And i think im right, jeremy, you might correct me, i think its about 140 square miles. Something like that. Im not sure exactly. I always go with the Isle Of Wight definition. Ok, so that was the geography part to the more complicated part. Now, what is behind this conflict . Lets hear from a listener, sidney from albany, new york. How did that impact local people | in what was formerly palestine . | why did the following wars break out . And what is life for people under occupation in the west bank like . Sojeremy, the problem here is how far back do we go . Can you attempt a potted history for us . The first part of the question, where did the conflict start . Well, i suppose you have to go back to the Zionist Movement in europe, where in 1897 they had a congress and they decided, among other things, that they would push to get a jewish state within 50 years. In fact, they got one in 51 years in 1948. And there was even by 1897, there was a Settlement Byjews who were known as zionists. Its a jewish nationalism, if you like. It was a period of nationalism in europe. The czechs wanted a homeland. You know, the the hungarians wanted independence. And jews were thinking, well, lets get a nation state as well. And they decided they wanted to have one here in palestine. But there was a famous historian, avi shlaim found this great quote. Some rabbis who came out here after that first zionist conference looked. They telegrammed back, they telegraphed back to back to europe and said because they were there to survey the territory and they said, the bride is beautiful, but shes already married. In other words, there were people here. One of the old sayings about israel was it was a land without a people for a people without a land. But that wasnt true because there were palestinian arabs here. And the fact that when the zionists were coming in, there were to start with, there was a bit of cooperation, but increasingly there was conflict. And i think asking where this conflict came from, i think it started off with two peoples having very strong claims to the land in their own minds and not being able to agree how to split it and how to share it. And i think asking where this conflict came from, i think it started off with two peoples having very strong claims to the land in their own minds and not being able to agree how to split it and how to share it. Now, the british were in charge here between the world wars. Effectively. They left in 1948 and they did have a plan to try to split the land into two states. But it was one which the arabs particularly would not accept. They wanted everything. I think that the jews at that time had more of a subtle approach and why they werent getting what they wanted, they thought, well take a bet and maybe well have something extra. So 1948, israels war of independence, they won a massive victory. All their arab neighbours tried to invade it and try to strangle the state at birth. Didnt succeed. But since then, it has had a very troubled history. And one of the questions was about religious differences. Well, you know, in the time that ive been here as a journalist and ive been reporting from here and i lived here, too, for, well, more. Reporting from here for more than 30 years. The conflict has got more religious. I used to feel it was when it was groups of basically guys in suits in a room, maybe they had a chance of trying to sort it out. But now there are people on both sides who believe they are doing the will of god. And those people were always existed, but now theyre in really powerful positions. So thats pretty difficult. If you think youre doing the will of god, youre not going to make a deal about it, are you . Well, the latest stage in the crisis started with the unprecedented attacks on israel by hamas, which seemed to come as a complete surprise. Well talk about the why now shortly. But first, lets have another one of your questions. This is katie. I live in new york. I want to know what life i was or is like in palestine. And is it those harsh conditions that led to this Breaking Point . I or did hamas just do this because they want to eradicate jewish people from the earth i and theyre just using this claim of oppression as an excuse to killjewish people . So, lyse, would you like to take this one . Well, illjust pick up On Whatjeremy said, is that the longer this conflict goes on, it does acquire more and more of a religious dimension. But its muslims against thejews and the jewish people feel very profoundly threatened by the attacks that hamas carried out on saturday, it has gone right round the world injewish communities. But i think predominantly, this is an issue about, yes, the very difficult, evermore difficult, impoverished conditions in gaza, the conditions in the occupied west bank, the fact that israel continues to exercise control over peoples lives, the fact that the hopes of the palestinians for a state of their own seems to recede further and further in the distance. So much so that those who have long hoped for a two State Solution, as it calls, a palestinian state and The State Of Israel side by side, have now begun to believe that the only way forward because simply, in terms of having contiguous land, that its not possible, it will have to be a one State Solution just because one of the most controversial issues of all. Sorry, just to interrupt you there at least we were hearing some sirens there and it sounded like some explosions. Can you tell us whats going on . Well, thats the thud of artillery. Were very close to the gaza border, so thats outgoing. In the night, theres a lot of intense aerial bombardment that goes on around the clock for gazans. It is in the distance, im afraid. It is in the distance. Im afraid t is a sound that we hear all day, even here in southern israel. Artillery going out, drones in the sky. Helicopter gunships, we hear the thud of of some of that bombardment in gaza. We only see the, for the most part, hear the sound. And right here, we cant hear, see whats happening on the ground. And its a frightening moment. It is frightening. Are you 0k to continue . You are ok. 0k. Thats great. Not frightening for us, for the people under them. For the people under them. So i was saying that its. One of the most controversial issues between the israelis and palestinians is the continuing. The expansion ofjewish settlements. And in the past many months, with Binyamin Netanyahu remaining in power and now governing with the most right wing government in israels history, it is very pro settler and theres been for most of this year, more and more clashes. The siren is going off, but i think were fine. We can continue. And i think maybe its good for our listeners to know that this is the reality of life. Theres been a lot of clashes between the settlers and palestinians in the west bank, so much so that it was regarded as israels more focused on the west bank than they were on gaza. But there are many reasons for this and they are very profound. Theyre very emotional. Theyre historical and very personal and political. Right. Lets have another clip from one of our listeners. Given the israeli response to the hamas attack seemingly resulting in collective punishment towards the palestinians, im curious as to what the average palestinian civilian sentiment is towards hamas. Is this an organisation that is largely supported . And that ones for you, jeremy. Well, there havent been any polls in the last week, because i think that for a lot of palestinians and ones ive spoken to in the last week, there has been horror and incredulity about what has been happening, about the numbers of people that were killed. I think people had no idea that this was coming. So theres that. Now, before all this happened, hamas when the hamas took over in gaza in 2007, quite violently, they kicked out the other faction, fatah. They were daggers drawn, literally, in some cases. They had won an election the previous year. There were daggers drawn, literally, in some cases. They had won an election the previous year. So they were popular then. And a lot of that was a protest vote against the ineptitude and the corruption of the other palestinian main group, fatah, and the fact that they hadnt delivered their objective of a palestinian state. And to start with, some people thought hamas were. Palestinians, i mean,. Were quite a breath of fresh air. But things have changed, became more authoritarian. And theyre not they havent been so popular in gaza and also here in the west bank. Yes, of course, they have their followers, some very, very dedicated followers, often people who are religious. But its, you know, you cannot say that the Palestinian National movement, those people who want to have their own state, which is virtually every palestinian ive ever met, that they are, you know, co extensive with hamas because thats not the case. Far from it. And so, you know, hamas were not a ragingly Popular Group and i dont think this is necessarily going to make them any more popular. But what will happen, because what is already happening because of the number of deaths of palestinian civilians, particularly, is there will be a feeling that palestinians and others in the arab world weve seen a lot of demonstrations today, will be angry about what was happening and angry at israel because of the way that they are attacking gaza. Well, turning to current israeli politics now, lets get a bit more context. Chris hockman from texas, i but originally from australia. How much of a factor is the settlements in this situation . How has this changed israeli policy, given that to get support from the right, netanyahu had shifted to a more anti palestinian policy . Whats irans role in all of this . Please take that one. Well, ive mentioned as one of the one of the primary reasons for the increasing anger of palestinians, including hamas, against israel, is the rise and rise expansion ofjewish settlements. Jewish settlements was one of the issues that was postponed in the Oslo Peace Accords of 30 years ago. And many now realise that was a huge mistake. They thought they would be able to deal with it. Israel has given back some of the control of the occupied west bank, but there are large swathes which are under israeli control and the settlements continue to expand. And also the Israeli Settlers now feel emboldened by the right wing government, which has many pro settler politicians inside Prime Minister netanyahus cabinet, at least the cabinet he had before he formed the war cabinet. So, yes, it is a major issue. On iran, this has been asked many times. Iran is one of the main backers of hamas and islamichhad. It both helps to arm and finance both groups. But in this particular crisis, the United States and israel have both said that there is no intelligence to suggest that iran was part of the planning and the execution of this assault by hamas. Its very difficult, isnt it, to be accurate, to be sure that the information that you are receiving is true . Weve had some questions about how we verify information. Hello, bbc, this is zoe in chicago. Im wondering how News Organisations and governments develop counts of those killed and injuredl so quickly within often just a matter of hours or a day or two. So, jeremy, how do you do that . Well, in terms of the numbers of people whove been killed or wounded, i think sometimes it is an approximation and it still is at the moment, in terms of those who were killed in that hamas attack, because frankly theyre still finding bodies they dont really know. Today in israel, there was a Photo Opportunity arranged by the israeli army and they took journalists to a series of refrigerated containers, shipping containers, which are overflow morgues. And in there, there are dozens of bodies and body bags which are awaiting identification. And i was only a couple of days ago at one of those kibbutzes that were overwhelmed by hamas, and they were still finding bodies. So thats a bit of an approximation. In terms of other things, like, for example, how many people have been killed in the west bank in violence between settlers, the israeli army, armed palestinians, we keep a Running Total and so do other organisations, which we add to as necessary. So, yeah, we do know. I mean, for example, on our Office Whatsapp today, i was writing a script to do with whats been happening around here and some of the political developments, and there were some confrontations between the israeli army and palestinian demonstrators in the west bank, and by 4 00 this afternoon, we saw that 11, the figure was that 11 palestinians had been killed. Now, that came from whats considered to be a fairly accurate source, which is the Palestinian Health ministry. But, you know, we would be also double checking it against other accounts. And we keep, as i say, our own Running Totals for things. In terms of verifying things like those videos you see. I mean, one thing thats really changed reporting and since the advent of the smartphone and the internet is the fact that so much video is around that we see so much that we even, what, 15 years ago we would never, ever have seen and which has a a direct political impact as well, which we can talk about on another occasion. But those videos, we have a great Big Department at the bbc and so do other News Organisations where we try and work out where they came from. There are various ways of using open source intelligence, geolocation, sometimes bringing in people who come from that town or that country. And were an international organisation, the bbc, so we can do that, who say, you know, is that really the main high street of homs in syria . So we try and prove things, we dont just stick them out there. And we hear a lot aboutjust how intractable a conflict this is and, of course, our listeners have questions about how to resolve it. First, there was this suggestion about a short term solution. Hi, this is sam oppenheim, a new York City Public School teacher. And my question is, would israel | consider a humanitarian corridor| and a temporary ceasefire that could allow women and children out of gaza, for example, into egypt or an army camp or all the way to the west bank . I understand that the Israeli Military is looking for a Military Solution but in all the interviews that youve posted on the bbc podcast, they claim to value civilian lives of Innocent Non Hamas actors, i so could israel put weightl behind those statements . Lyse. Israel is under huge pressure now, most of all pressure from its own people after these atrocities committed by hamas. There is deep, deep anger and fear in this society and a very strong feeling of the need to retaliate, to use their phrase, to crush hamas. But there is also pressure on israel from its closest of allies, including the United States, to make. How they respond, to use the phrase use by the us, how you respond matters as well, that there are rules of even in war. And one of the most important rules is not targeting civilians. That is a war crime. And so israel seems to be listening to that. Theres also discussions with egypt about trying to keep that crossing open. But egypt has its own concerns. It doesnt want a huge influx of palestinians onto its territory. And the rafah crossing, it cant move people quickly enough through it. Israel does not want to be delayed. Its not in a mood to compromise in any way. The clock for its Military Operations matters more than the clock on the time it would take to open a humanitarian corridor, theres not even a window, much less a corridor now. And i think well see in the days to come how many how far theyre willing to heed these expressions of concern which grow ever louder about the price that civilians will pay for israels Military Operations, which, of course, israel has a lot of support for that from its allies, too. On the subject, the question are asked about maybe women and children going to egypt or a camp or west bank or Something Like that. The israeli instruction for people to go south has raised a lot of ghosts of the past. A lot of the people in gaza are descendants of people who became refugees when israel was created. And they either were in 1948, something get on for a million palestinians were either evicted from their homes or fled the war. And they have never and they their descendants, those people and their descendants were never able, have never been able to return, except in a very, very small minority of cases. So, palestinians, when you say, well, just leave for a while, youll be able to come back. Frankly, they dont believe it. And finally, the biggest question of all. Hi, its alex from colchester. My question is, what is the solution . What would it take from both sides for a lasting peace to be brought about . Which of you wants to go first . Well, ill have a go if you like. Go ahead, jeremy. Once upon a time, there was something called the peace process. Back in the 90s, it raised an awful lot of hopes. The idea was that through negotiation, there would be a palestinian state alongside lsraeh now, for a number of complicated reasons, which we dont have time to get into, that did not work. They tried to. It was in Intensive Care for a while. Diplomats, particularly some very hard working americans, tried to jolt it back into life, but it didnt succeed. Perhaps it was never going to succeed. Perhaps the differences between the two sides were too great. And for the last ten years or so since the Americans Last had a go at trying to revive that peace process, the conflict has effectively been left to faster, and a feeling has grown up, particularly, i think, among mr netanyahu, the israeli Prime Minister, and him and his allies, and also some of his allies abroad as well, that it could be managed, that it was a conflict that could be contained and israel could get on with other things like dealing with iran, like maybe having a rapprochement with saudi arabia, and they could build a new middle east. But there was always this terrible problem of the arab israeli the palestinian israeli conflict. And i would argue its really central to the problems of the region. And i think that that has been shown once again by the tragic, horrendous, brutal events, starting with that hamas raid. So you could say that perhaps there was a moment back in the 90s when they might have got close to it, they might have had a chance, but that moment went away. And ive thought for some time that an explosion was coming. I didnt expect it the way it was, the optimistic way of looking at it. The optimistic way of looking at it, if you want to find a cloud somewhere, i mean, a Silver Lining somewhere in the cloud is that perhaps this willjolt all parties, im not talking about hamas. Im talking about palestinians talking about israelis, their allies, into doing some kind of a deal to at least talking about doing some kind of a deal. Thats the optimistic one. The pessimistic one is we go even further down from here. The mantra was land for peace and for the palestinians, the land meant returning to the borders of the territories seized by israel in the 1967 war or land swaps, so that they had enough territory to make an effective and a cohesive palestinian state. And when those negotiations first started and they were hope started and there was hope that they could be concluded, there had to be a corridor which connected gaza with the west bank. So i think for the majority of palestinians, a palestinian state control over their own lives is what they want. And i think israelis would want to be out of palestinian lives that they either would for a long time they talked to peace, then they talked about separation. They dont want to have each other to interfere and especially not in the way theyre doing now. The big question is, what does hamas want . Israelis get really worried and angry that the hamas has not changed its charter, its founding charter, which calls for the destruction of The State Of Israel. Now, in recent years, they have come up with documents which talked about their readiness to have to accept that there could be a state if write to virtue principles like the right of palestinians to return our our respected by israel, its carried out that its possible that they could move towards some kind of an agreement. But i think what this Current Crisis tells us is that hamas is divided. There are political leaders in hamas who didnt know about this assault, who dont support this assault, who were trying to move. Who were trying to move away from the rule of the gun, but the military wing, which seems to be the one in charge. Now, The Big Question is what do they want . Our thanks to lyse doucet. Her podcast is called the conflict, and youll find it wherever you find your bbc podcast. You will also find the Global News Podcast there as well. Our thanks as well tojeremy bowen, our International Editor. Imjackie leonard. And until next time, goodbye. Hello there. The weather for quite a few of us has been feeling a lot colder today. The colder air has been travelling southwards across the country over recent days, but its across Southern England and wales that the cold air really arrived. And so for hereford, we went from 22 degrees yesterday to 13 or so this afternoon a drop of nine degrees celsius. Now, for many areas, we did have some pleasant spells of sunshine. A few showers around those showers falling as snow over the tops of the scottish mountains. Those wintry showers continuing to be driven in on those gusty north westerly winds with the showers always most frequent across the north and western coasts and hills. Now for northern scotland, the skies look quite different as those showers worked in some rough seas here in banff, thanks to those gusty onshore winds. And overnight, it will stay pretty windy for northern scotland, particularly in shetland, where gusts will continue to run into The 50s And 60s Of Miles An Hourfor a time, driving in further showers. Elsewhere have showers still around some of our coastal areas. But inland, its a dry night with clear spells and temperatures getting down low enough to give a nip of frost in the countryside, something gardeners might want to take note of. Our lowest temperatures under these these sunny skies as we start the day down at minus two degrees. Now, there will be lots of sunshine around for sunday, but showers probably merging together to give some longer spells of rain for northern scotland, showers for west scotland, one or two for Northern Ireland and a few for the northern isles, where it will still be quite windy, but not as windy as it was on saturday. Temperatures across the board below average for the time of year. Now from monday, i think theres probably going to be a few mist and fog patches to start the day. And although the weather is predominantly dry underneath an area of high pressure, around the periphery of that high, you might see a few showers coming up the thames estuary, one or two for the far north of scotland. I think the emphasis is on a dry and sunny day for many of you. It will stay cool though for october, temperatures 11 to 13 degrees. We start to see some further changes in the Weather Pattern towards the middle part of the week. After a fine day on tuesday, well start to see some rain moving up with this area of low pressure coming in off the bay of biscay. Now, the rains likely to be quite heavy on wednesday as it spreads across england and wales. It crosses Northern England thursday and pushes on Into Parts Of Scotland and Northern Ireland probably stays quite unsettled beyond that, with temperatures returning closer to average for the time of year. Live from london. This is bbc news. Israel vows to � eradicate� hamas after last weeks attack saying it is getting prepared for a Comprehensive Offensive by land, sea and air. Israels Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu visited troops near the gaza strip telling them, the next stage is coming. The World Health Organisation urges israel to reverse its Evacuation Order for hospitals in the north of gaza with millions displaced, fears grow for deteriorating conditions on the ground. The bbc confirms Young Children were among those killed yesterday in an air strike on vehicles leaving Northern Gaza along an israeli designated route south. Israels military says its forces are deployed across the country and are ready for the next stage of the war, which is expected to have significant ground operations