Make sense of it, any sense of it . What conversations have you had with your teenagers about this . How do we stop young people carrying lethal weapons and what do we need to do to stop more young people being killed . I want to hear from young people, parents, police, politicians, teachers, community workers. Get in touch with your experience. Its a huge issue. Were going to talk about it for the next two hours. Knives is your teen safe . Good morning, heres the news. Thanks, nikki. A 15 Year Old Girl who was killed on her way to school has been described as having a bright future. Flowers and cards have been placed near the scene of her stabbing in croydon, south london. Police are continuing to question a 17 year old boy in connection with her death. A bbc investigation has found over 150 reports of Police Officers misusing their body worn cameras. In some cases, theyre being switched off when force is used. In others, footage is being shared on social media. The officer in charge of the cameras says the majority of recordings show good practice. A major Study Suggests a significant number of the uks wildlife species are at risk of dying out. The State Of Nature paper assessed 10,000 species of plants, mammals, insects, birds and amphibians and found that 16 were threatened with extinction. The government says its committed to increasing the amount of habitat for nature to thrive. Pharmacists say millions of people wrongly believe they are allergic to penicillin, which could mean they take longer to recover after an infection. About 4 Million People in the uk have the drug allergy on their medical record, but when tested 90 of them are not allergic. The Royal Pharmaceutical society says many people confuse antibiotic side effects with an allergic reaction. It does just seem nonsensical to so many of us, doesnt it . Kids carrying these horrible, lethal, disgusting weapons. Recently, the Home Secretary, suella braverman, was talking about this and she wrote to constables of all 43 Police Forces in england and wales to give them backing on what she described as common sense policing. The whole issue of stop and search came up. That will come up in our conversation, this morning. Gangs, what is a gang . Recent data suggests that the majority of knife crime is not gang related. Why . Why are young people carrying these weapons and carrying out these acts of violence . On each other. Yet another tragic death in a litany of tragic deaths. Puja kanda joins us. Her son was murdered in 2022 who ordered a ninja blade online. The person who murdered her son. We also have someone who used to carry a knife themselves 15 years ago. Call me on 08085 909693, text 85058. Tell us your thoughts on this, your experiences of it and also an overview, you know, looking on from afar. Everybody is welcome on this, it is such an Important National conversation to have on a National Phone in. Puja, iam heartbroken, one of the top cops described this as every parents worst nightmare. Pooja, welcome to the nations phone in, what is that nightmare like . Good morning, everyone. I cant say good morning, because. Every day. It is like a living nightmare, the pain is constant, losing the way i lost ronan, you get nightmares sleeping, waking up. It is indigestable pain. It is at the core of your heart and in your soul, screaming for your child. And i know there is another mother now in croydon crying for her daughter, her child and i know her pain. Ifeel it. Child and i know her pain. I feel it. ~ ,. ,. , ,. , it. When you heard the news, you must have it. When you heard the news, you must have had. It. When you heard the news, you must have had. I it. When you heard the news, you must have had. I mean, it. When you heard the news, you must have had. I mean, it it. When you heard the news, you must have had. I mean, it is it. When you heard the news, you. Must have had. I mean, it is with you all the time, it never leaves you, but all these thoughts and that intense pain must have Come Flooding back to you. What happened to your son . ,. , back to you. What happened to your son . ,. ,. ~ back to you. What happened to your son . ,. ,. , ~. , son . Ronan was ust walking outside the house, son . Ronan wasjust walking outside the house, coming son . Ronan wasjust walking outside the house, coming back son . Ronan wasjust walking outside the house, coming back from son . Ronan wasjust walking outside the house, coming back from his the house, coming back from his Friends House only two doors away. He was nearly home when the murderers came behind him and, without him knowing, they stabbed him in his heart and without him knowing, they stabbed him in his heartand in without him knowing, they stabbed him in his heart and in his stomach. 20 centimetres and 17 centimetres deep inside. Ronan didnt stand a chance. Knowing what happened to him this way, he tried to make it to home with what hes just gone through. He didnt. Hejust collapsed on the road. He bled to death. The child of mine didnt stand a chance at all, he didnt stand a chance at all, he didnt stand a chance to. He wouldnt have survived the way he was murdered, he wouldnt have survived the wound is because of the sword is. The penetration of the sword was so deep inside his body, deep inside his heart. It went through his heart. He wouldnt have survived that. And. Because this wasnt actually for Somebody Elses child, this was a mistaken identity. And i cant keep getting why they have to leave the house. Why would they leave the house. Why would they leave the house with swords . Even the judge said that, you left the house with a sword with the intention to kill. You just killed accidentally Somebody Else, you killed accidentally, another child. Who had nothing to do with you. Nothing to do with your agenda. Nothing to do with your. Money. But you just killed. Taken a childs life over mistaken identity but you left the house with intentions to kill. They did. And they took my sons life. fix, did. And they took my sons life. A sword . how they were running behind him. No, im saying a sword, the weapon, the weapon, a sword . No, im saying a sword, the weapon, the weapon, a sword . Yeah. I saw the weaon the weapon, a sword . Yeah. I saw the weapon for the weapon, a sword . Yeah. I saw the weapon for the the weapon, a sword . Yeah. I saw the weapon for the first the weapon, a sword . Yeah. I saw the weapon for the first time the weapon, a sword . Yeah. I saw the weapon for the first time in the weapon, a sword . Yeah. I saw the weapon for the first time in the weapon for the first time in the court. I collapsed. Weapon for the first time in the court. Icollapsed. I weapon for the first time in the court. I collapsed. I collapsed. Knowing that dangerous, long sword. When i was told for the first time there is a dangerous machete, i looked on the internet trying to show what a machete looks like trying to search. I had never seen a machete because i have no need for machetes, me and my children dont need to look for these things and i got all kinds of shapes. They look so ugly. Dangerous. Lethal. And when i saw for the first time the shape and the. How long the sword was, i collapsed. In the. Court. Knowing this went through my son. My son didnt stand a chance. I knew it. Ronan wouldnt stand a chance. Because the whole of the sword went in heart here. Went in his heart here. In heart here. Went in his heart here. ,. ,. , � , here. Tell me about ronan. Ive been readin here. Tell me about ronan. Ive been reading this here. Tell me about ronan. Ive been reading this morning here. Tell me about ronan. Ive been reading this morning about here. Tell me about ronan. Ive been reading this morning about him, here. Tell me about ronan. Ive been reading this morning about him, he l reading this morning about him, he sounds like a wonderful young man. Absolutely. Talking about him. You can tell what a wonderful, loving, caring son of mine. He made me laugh. He was an imitator. We all had such a great bond. We actually played articulate together. We spend christmases together. We actually spend time with each other. We spend. Ronan made us laugh, he was the glue and the soul of the family. He was so humble, caring, that i even, today, get messages from random people telling me the stories of how ronan has impacted their life at school. How much he helped them at school. How much he helped them at school. How much he helped them at school. And how he protected them from getting bullied at school. Knowing thats my son makes me very proud of him. I am proud of ronan. He had morals and values and he showed them to everyone. Why are these kids leaving home with these weapons . Its the culture. Its the culture around knife crime. Ugly. The bigger the knife, you look cool. You carry it, you look cool look cool. You carry it, you look cool. You just have to. Looking at the sword, that word was used on ronan and other machetes and other swords and knives. Because the murder of ronan, he didntjust buy one sword, he bought up to 25. These kids are not thinking of what it can do to otherfamilies. Kids are not thinking of what it can do to other families. To their own families. Its a culture around it. Yeah. And theyre not thinking about something else, as well. Theyre not thinking about the fact that, and, obviously, its secondary but it is something that will affect their lives forever, theyre not thinking about the fact that this will have. Far reaching, momentous consequences on their own lives. They will be sent to prison. That life ending moment is life changing for them. Why dont they understand that . Why dont they understand the consequences . Obviously. What you say so powerfully and directly and truly, the consequences to families, families are being ripped apart, lives that theyve changed forever, such as yours, and you are speaking brilliantly, but why dont they realise that they are finished, as well . I realise that they are finished, as well . ,. ,. ,. ,. , realise that they are finished, as well . ,. , well . I give you a very good example here. The moment the sentencing was told for my. For the murderers of my son, one of the murder raised his hands to his family and gave a thumbs up to his family like that, like hesjust won thumbs up to his family like that, like hes just won an award. When i looked at the murderer, he was doing this to his parents and was, like, no guilt, no. There is no guilt, no guilt, no. There is no guilt, no remorse. Hes taken a life of a 16 year old. He didnt mean to take and yet he is raising his hand, saying its all right. Thats because the parenting is going wrong somewhere. They are not scared. I mean, he was doing his gcses in the jail, he was re taking his exams in the jail. So, whatever he was doing outside, hes still getting to do them in the jail. His other murderer is still with him. Hes still got a friend that was outside in the same jail with him. What difference it has made in his life. His name is everywhere. There is no remorse he has shown. I really dont know why they are not scared, why are they not scared to go to jail . Have you. How long was he sent to jailfor . Have you. How long was he sent to ail for . , , have you. How long was he sent to ail for . ,. , ~ have you. How long was he sent to ailfor . ,. , ~y. , jail for . One was sent for 16 years. And the other jail for . One was sent for 16 years. And the other one jail for . One was sent for 16 years. And the other one was jail for . One was sent for 16 years. And the other one was sent jail for . One was sent for 16 years. And the other one was sent for jail for . One was sent for 16 years. And the other one was sent for 18. And the other one was sent for 18 years, who. Prabjeet veadhesa was 18 years. Years, who. Prabeet veadhesa was 18 ears. ,. , years, who. Prabeet veadhesa was 18 yeah at years, who. Prabeet veadhesa was 18 yeah at thel 18 years. How old were they . At the time of murder 18 years. How old were they . At the time of murder they 18 years. How old were they . At the time of murder they were 18 years. How old were they . At the time of murder they were both 18 years. How old were they . At the time of murder they were both 16. L time of murder they were both 16. Oh. Would you consider if they considered it, would you consider meeting them, Restorative Justice . Try and get into their heads . You will never get try and get into their heads . Vm. Will never get into their head. I have seen it. They didnt show no remorse. There is no way trying to get into their head. They have already committed the crime. If you want to get into somebody� s head, if you want to give that time and effort, we need to do that to somebody who is going to do the crime before. Reach them before. Once theyve committed the crime, they have done the worst of all. Trying to help them. Once he raised his thumbs, his hands, like that, the parents should have been saying, no, you put the hand down. His parents should have been saying, put your head down, you just kill that mothers child, which i would have done if my son did that you just killed. But they didnt. So, trying to get into their head. It is not important any more. What is important any more. What is important is get into the heads of the youth who might commit crime. Now. The youth who might commit crime. Now. ,. ,. ,. ,. , now. Yeah, i want to. Yeah, yeah. What was now. Yeah, i want to. Yeah, yeah. What was the now. Yeah, i want to. Yeah, yeah. What was the parents now. Yeah, i want to. Yeah, yeah. What was the parents reaction . Now. Yeah, i want to. Yeah, yeah. What was the parents reaction . Did | what was the parents reaction . Did you clock that . What was the parents reaction . Did you clock that . When the parents. She raised her you clock that . When the parents. She raised her hands you clock that . When the parents. She raised her hands like you clock that . When the parents. She raised her hands like that. You clock that . When the parents. She raised her hands like that. She l she raised her hands like that. She said, its ok. She was crying. Just before the sentencing. Was going to be announced. All the way through, she had not shed a tear. Butjust before the sentencing, she cried. Those tears that she cried, i cried. Those tears that she cried, i cried every single second of my life. And what do you want to happen, whats your campaign . Mr; and what do you want to happen, whats your campaign . My campaign is about banning whats your campaign . My campaign is about banning all whats your campaign . My campaign is about banning all the whats your campaign . My campaign is about banning all the bladed about banning all the bladed articles online. All the dangerous weapons to be banned online. The murderers were able to, they were 16, collect these dangerous, lethal weapons. So easily. Thats whats happening. The murderer Prabjeet Veadhesa collected up to 25 machetes, swords and knives, i want them banned from online sale. We them banned from online sale. Ive not a text them banned from online sale. Ive got a text for them banned from online sale. Ive got a text for you, pooja. Ijust wanted to say that pooja is a national treasure. She has been so composed for her son, and she has just lost her baby boy. Shes just lost her baby boy. Parents have got to start stepping up, igotan i got an 18 month old baby boy, what advice can any responsible parent give me . As if parents are not aware of what their children are doing. Rip ronan. That is from darren in hertfordshire. Tom in cardigan, thanks for getting in touch. You are in rural wales. And sarah in stockport coming and sarah worked in the care system and a great bit of experience to bring to the table. Tom, there are so many mums and dads who are in that situation that was so powerfully expressed by pooja. What do we do . Remaining inquisitive with your children remaining inquisitive with your children. Unfortunately, social media children. Unfortunately, social media is children. Unfortunately, social media is a children. Unfortunately, social media is a massive influence for young media is a massive influence for young kids media is a massive influence for young kids these days. So, try and be young kids these days. So, try and he as young kids these days. So, try and be as involved in their life as possible be as involved in their life as possible. If youve got any concerns, obviously, get in touch with police concerns, obviously, get in touch with police and Social Services is all i with police and Social Services is all i can with police and Social Services is all i can plead, really. Find with police and Social Services is alli can plead, really. Alli can plead, really. And what about your alli can plead, really. And what about your own alli can plead, really. And what about your own experience . Alli can plead, really. And what about your own experience . I l all i can plead, really. And what about your own experience . I mean, everyone thinks this is in a city, you know, this is london, birmingham, glasgow, manchester. You are calling us from rural west wales, one of the most beautiful parts of britain. Wales, one of the most beautiful parts of britain. Yeah, absolutely. It is rife everywhere, parts of britain. Yeah, absolutely. It is rife everywhere, really. It is rife everywhere, really. Children it is rife everywhere, really. Children are being exploited, Unfortunately, by gangs, but by horrible Unfortunately, by gangs, but by horrible people. So, you know, it is not horrible people. So, you know, it is noiiust horrible people. So, you know, it is notjust london. There are criminal gangs notjust london. There are criminal gangs all notjust london. There are criminal gangs all around. That is what they are getting dragged into, Unfortunately. Are getting dragged into, Unfortunately. Are getting dragged into, unfortunatel. ,. ,. , Unfortunately. Sarah, what would you like to say . Unfortunately. Sarah, what would you like to say . I Unfortunately. Sarah, what would you like to say . I would Unfortunately. Sarah, what would you like to say . I would just Unfortunately. Sarah, what would you like to say . I would just like Unfortunately. Sarah, what would you like to say . I would just like to like to say . I would ust like to sa that like to say . I would ust like to say that its h like to say . I would ust like to say that its not like to say . I would just like to say that its not really like to say . I would just like to say that its not really a like to say . I would just like to say that its not really a new. Say that its not really a new problem. Say that its not really a new problem, this say that its not really a new problem, this knife say that its not really a new problem, this knife crime i say that its not really a new. Problem, this knife crime issue. Say that its not really a new problem, this knife crime issue. I think problem, this knife crime issue. I think the problem, this knife crime issue. I think the government problem, this knife crime issue. I think the government are think the government are highlighting think the government are highlighting it think the government are highlighting it a think the government are highlighting it a lot think the government are highlighting it a lot at think the government arej highlighting it a lot at the think the government are highlighting it a lot at the minute because highlighting it a lot at the minute because of highlighting it a lot at the minute because of the highlighting it a lot at the minute because of the number highlighting it a lot at the minute because of the number of highlighting it a lot at the minute l because of the number of incidents there because of the number of incidents there is because of the number of incidents there is but because of the number of incidents there is but i because of the number of incidents there is. But i used because of the number of incidents there is. But i used to because of the number of incidents there is. But i used to work because of the number of incidents there is. But i used to work in because of the number of incidents there is. But i used to work in the i there is. But i used to work in the care there is. But i used to work in the care system there is. But i used to work in the care system and there is. But i used to work in the care system and i there is. But i used to work in the care system and i worked there is. But i used to work in the care system and i worked in there is. But i used to work in the care system and i worked in the l there is. But i used to work in the i care system and i worked in the care system care system and i worked in the care system from care system and i worked in the care system from 2009 care system and i worked in the care system from 2009 until care system and i worked in the care system from 2009 until 2020. Care system and i worked in the Care I System from 2009 until 2020. Back in 2009. System from 2009 until 2020. Back in 2009. We system from 2009 until 2020. Back in 2009. We were system from 2009 until 2020. Back in 2009, we were having system from 2009 until 2020. Back in 2009, we were having to system from 2009 until 2020. Back in 2009, we were having to remove 2009, we were having to remove knives. 2009, we were having to remove knives, machetes, 2009, we were having to remove knives, machetes, from 2009, we were having to remove knives, machetes, from young i 2009, we were having to remove knives, machetes, from young people. A lot of knives, machetes, from young people. A lot of it. Knives, machetes, from young people. A lot of it. I knives, machetes, from young people. A lot of it, ithink, knives, machetes, from young people. A lot of it, i think, as knives, machetes, from young people. A lot of it, i think, as well, knives, machetes, from young people. A lot of it, i think, as well, is a lot of it, i think, as well, is its a lot of it, i think, as well, is its all a lot of it, i think, as well, is its all dependent a lot of it, i think, as well, is its all dependent on a lot of it, i think, as well, is its all dependent on where l a lot of it, i think, as well, is its all dependent on where these young its all dependent on where these young people its all dependent on where these young people grow its all dependent on where these young people grow up its all dependent on where these young people grow up. I its all dependent on where these i young people grow up. I appreciate it can young people grow up. I appreciate it can happen young people grow up. I appreciate it can happen in young people grow up. I appreciate it can happen in rural young people grow up. I appreciate it can happen in rural places, young people grow up. I appreciate it can happen in rural places, but. Young people grow up. I appreciate it can happen in rural places, but a| it can happen in rural places, but a lot of it can happen in rural places, but a lot of it it can happen in rural places, but a lot of it with it can happen in rural places, but a lot of it with these it can happen in rural places, but a lot of it with these young it can happen in rural places, but a lot of it with these young people. It can happen in rural places, but a lot of it with these young people itj lot of it with these young people it is also lot of it with these young people it is also about lot of it with these young people it is also about survival lot of it with these young people it is also about survival on lot of it with these young people it is also about survival on the is also about survival on the streets is also about survival on the streets it is also about survival on the streets. If they is also about survival on the streets. If they dont is also about survival on the streets. If they dont walk. Is also about survival on the streets. If they dont walk around and carry streets. If they dont walk around and carry a streets. If they dont walk around and carry a knife, streets. If they dont walk around and carry a knife, theyve streets. If they dont walk around and carry a knife, theyve got streets. If they dont walk around and carry a knife, theyve got nol and carry a knife, theyve got no protection and carry a knife, theyve got no protection if and carry a knife, theyve got no protection if anyone and carry a knife, theyve got no protection if anyone wants and carry a knife, theyve got no protection if anyone wants to. And carry a knife, theyve got no. Protection if anyone wants to attack them protection if anyone wants to attack them does protection if anyone wants to attack them does that protection if anyone wants to attack them. Does that make protection if anyone wants to attack them. Does that make sense . Protection if anyone wants to attack them. Does that make sense . Yes, its what a them. Does that make sense . Yes, its what a lot them. Does that make sense . Yes, its what a lot of them. Does that make sense . Yes, its what a lot of the them. Does that make sense . Yes, its what a lot of the criminal. Them. Does that make sense . Yes, its what a lot of the criminal. I i its what a lot of the criminal. I cant say Criminological Research has said. Pooja, hopefully you are still with us because i would love for you to comment on that. Young people carrying these knives because they feel they have to carry these knives and these lethal weapons in order to protect themselves. Because others carry order to protect themselves. Because others carry them order to protect themselves. Because others carry them. Exactly. Order to protect themselves. Because others carry them. Exactly. Theres i others carry them. Exactly. Theres a kind of arms others carry them. Exactly. Theres a kind of arms race others carry them. Exactly. Theres a kind of arms race going others carry them. Exactly. Theres a kind of arms race going on. Others carry them. Exactly. Theres| a kind of arms race going on. Yeah. I think a kind of arms race going on. Yeah. I think the a kind of arms race going on. Yeah. I think the protection a kind of arms race going on. Yeah. I think the protection for a kind of arms race going on. Yeah. I think the protection for them a kind of arms race going on. Yeah. I think the protection for them self | i think the protection for them self is just why do they need protection . We need to establish why they need protection . Why they say they need protection . Why they say they need protection . What do they need protection . What do they need protection from . Unfortunately, thats the way protection from . Unfortunately, thats the way the protection from . Unfortunately, thats the way the Streets Protection from . Unfortunately, thats the way the streets are i thats the way the streets are nowadays thats the way the streets are nowadays because thats the way the streets are nowadays because youve thats the way the streets are nowadays because youve gotj thats the way the streets are i nowadays because youve got a thats the way the streets are nowadays because youve got a lot ofm nowadays because youve got a lot ofm deprived nowadays because youve got a lot of. Deprived areas. Nowadays because youve got a lot of. Deprived areas. Obviously,. Of. Deprived areas. Obviously, going of. Deprived areas. Obviously, going back of. Deprived areas. Obviously, going back from of. Deprived areas. Obviously, going back from what of. Deprived areas. Obviously, going back from what the of. Deprived areas. Obviously, going back from what the last i of. Deprived areas. Obviously, going back from what the last person said in going back from what the last person said in relation going back from what the last person said in relation to going back from what the last person said in relation to criminal going back from what the last person said in relation to criminal gangs, said in relation to criminal gangs, grooming said in relation to criminal gangs, grooming these said in relation to criminal gangs, grooming these young said in relation to criminal gangs, grooming these young people, i said in relation to criminal gangs, grooming these young people, as well, grooming these young people, as well, thats grooming these young people, as well, thats a grooming these young people, as well, thats a massive grooming these young people, as well, thats a massive issue. Grooming these young people, as well, thats a massive issue. And| well, thats a massive issue. And the people well, thats a massive issue. And the people that well, thats a massive issue. And the people that are well, thats a massive issue. And the people that are grooming well, thats a massive issue. And i the people that are grooming these young the people that are grooming these young people. The people that are grooming these young people they the people that are grooming these young people, they tend the people that are grooming these young people, they tend to the people that are grooming these young people, they tend to know i the people that are grooming these. Young people, they tend to know the kind of young people, they tend to know the kind of kids young people, they tend to know the kind of kids that young people, they tend to know the kind of kids that they young people, they tend to know the kind of kids that they need young people, they tend to know the kind of kids that they need to young people, they tend to know the kind of kids that they need to hone. Kind of kids that they need to hone in on kind of kids that they need to hone in on as kind of kids that they need to hone in on as welt kind of kids that they need to hone in on. As well. If kind of kids that they need to hone in on. As well. If that kind of kids that they need to hone in on. As well. If that makes kind of kids that they need to hone. In on. As well. If that makes sense . Young in on. As well. If that makes sense . Young people in on. As well. If that makes sense . Young people that in on. As well. If that makes sense . Young people that might in on. As well. If that makes sense . Young people that might seem young people that might seem vulnerable. Young people that might seem vulnerable, they young people that might seem vulnerable, they might young people that might seem vulnerable, they might not young people that might seem vulnerable, they might not bel young people that might seem i vulnerable, they might not be in school, vulnerable, they might not be in school, they vulnerable, they might not be in school, they might vulnerable, they might not be in school, they might be vulnerable, they might not be in school, they might be smoking i vulnerable, they might not be in| school, they might be smoking a vulnerable, they might not be in school, they might be smoking a bit of weed, school, they might be smoking a bit of weed, they school, they might be smoking a bit of weed, they might school, they might be smoking a bit of weed, they might be school, they might be smoking a bit of weed, they might be involved school, they might be smoking a bit of weed, they might be involved in. School, they might be smoking a bit| of weed, they might be involved in a bit of of weed, they might be involved in a bit of criminal of weed, they might be involved in a bit of criminal activity. Of weed, they might be involved in a bit of criminal activity. As of weed, they might be involved in a bit of criminal activity. As well, bit of criminal activity. As well, conformity, bit of criminal activity. As well, conformity, that bit of criminal activity. As well, conformity, that is bit of criminal activity. As well, conformity, that is a bit of criminal activity. As well, conformity, that is a massive. Bit of criminal activity. As well, conformity, that is a massive thing. Survival conformity, that is a massive thing. Survival on conformity, that is a massive thing. Survival on the conformity, that is a massive thing. Survival on the streets. Conformity, that is a massive thing. Survival on the streets. A conformity, that is a massive thing. Survival on the streets. A lot conformity, that is a massive thing. Survival on the streets. A lot of survival on the streets. A lot of them survival on the streets. A lot of them feel survival on the streets. A lot of them feel that survival on the streets. A lot of them feel that they survival on the streets. A lot of them feel that they have survival on the streets. A lot of them feel that they have to survival on the streets. A lot of. Them feel that they have to carry these them feel that they have to carry these knives them feel that they have to carry these knives to them feel that they have to carry these knives to conform them feel that they have to carry these knives to conform or them feel that they have to carry i these knives to conform or protect themselves these knives to conform or protect themselves these knives to conform or protect themselves. ,. ,. , themselves. Ok. If they are carrying a knife, themselves. Ok. If they are carrying a knife. Which themselves. Ok. If they are carrying a knife, which i themselves. Ok. If they are carrying a knife, which i understand themselves. Ok. If they are carrying a knife, which i understand what themselves. Ok. If they are carrying| a knife, which i understand what you are saying, but, at the same time, they might get stabbed by their own lives. They are actually carrying a knife that can kill themselves. And maybe youth clubs need to be open to deter that. Maybe youth clubs need to be open to deterthat. I maybe youth clubs need to be open to deter that. I agree we need to work on the culture of these knife crimes. I totally agree with that. And also, as well, i think, like, going and also, as well, i think, like, going back and also, as well, i think, like, going back to and also, as well, i think, like, going back to a and also, as well, i think, like, going back to a point and also, as well, i think, like, going back to a point somebody made about going back to a point somebody made about the going back to a point somebody made about the consequences, going back to a point somebody made about the consequences, like, going back to a point somebody made about the consequences, like, if going back to a point somebody made about the consequences, like, if you i about the consequences, like, if you do actually about the consequences, like, if you do actually hurt about the consequences, like, if you do actually hurt someone about the consequences, like, if you do actually hurt someone or about the consequences, like, if you do actually hurt someone or you do actually hurt someone or you murder do actually hurt someone or you murder someone, do actually hurt someone or you murder someone, the murder someone, the consequences for everybody murder someone, the consequences for everybody and murder someone, the consequences for everybody and the murder someone, the consequences for everybody and the consequences murder someone, the consequences for everybody and the consequences on everybody and the consequences on the young everybody and the consequences on the young person everybody and the consequences on the young person carrying everybody and the consequences on the young person carrying the everybody and the consequences on| the young person carrying the knife, as welt the young person carrying the knife, as well~ i the young person carrying the knife, as welt ithink the young person carrying the knife, as well. I think more the young person carrying the knife, as well. I think more needs the young person carrying the knife, as well. I think more needs to the young person carrying the knife, as well. I think more needs to be. As well. I think more needs to be done, as well. I think more needs to be done you as well. I think more needs to be done. You know. As well. I think more needs to be done, you know, restorative as well. I think more needs to be. Done, you know, Restorative Justice as welt done, you know, Restorative Justice as welt getting done, you know, Restorative Justice as well. Getting these done, you know, Restorative Justice as well. Getting these teens done, you know, Restorative Justice as well. Getting these teens to as well. Getting these teens to understand as well. Getting these teens to understand what as well. Getting these teens to understand what they as well. Getting these teens to understand what they are as well. Getting these teens to. Understand what they are doing. As well. Getting these teens to understand what they are doing. They are not understand what they are doing. They are not thinking understand what they are doing. They are not thinking ten understand what they are doing. They are not thinking ten years understand what they are doing. They are not thinking ten years down understand what they are doing. They are not thinking ten years down the l are not thinking ten years down the line how are not thinking ten years down the line how it are not thinking ten years down the line how it will are not thinking ten years down the line how it will affect are not thinking ten years down the line how it will affect their are not thinking ten years down the line how it will affect their lives. Line how it will affect their lives. Ithink line how it will affect their lives. I think they line how it will affect their lives. I think they need line how it will affect their lives. I think they need to line how it will affect their lives. I think they need to look line how it will affect their lives. I think they need to look at line how it will affect their lives. I i think they need to look at working around i think they need to look at working around that i think they need to look at working around that i i think they need to look at working around that. I dont i think they need to look at working around that. I dont know i think they need to look at working around that. I dont know if i think they need to look at working around that. I dont know if they. I think they need to look at working around that. I dont know if they doj around that. I dont know if they do it around that. Idont know if they do it but around that. I dont know if they do it but going around that. Idont know if they do it but going into around that. I dont know if they do it but going into schools around that. Idont know if they do it but going into schools or around that. I dont know if they do it but going into schools or into it but going into schools or into organisations it but going into schools or into organisations where it but going into schools or into organisations where young it but going into schools or into i organisations where young people are, organisations where young people are to organisations where young people are to highlight organisations where young people are, to highlight this organisations where young people are, to highlight this problem. Organisations where young people are, to highlight this problem. If. Organisations where young people are, to highlight this problem. If [j are, to highlight this problem. Ifi could are, to highlight this problem. Could come in there quickly, you know. Could come in there quickly, you know, there are Support Services out there, know, there are Support Services out there. Its know, there are Support Services out there, itsjust that know, there are Support Services out there, its just that we need to get people there, its just that we need to get people to there, its just that we need to get people to reach out to them. Youth justice people to reach out to them. Youth Justice Services are fantastic up and down Justice Services are fantastic up and down the country. Obviously, social and down the country. Obviously, Social Services. If you do have concerns, Social Services. If you do have concerns, get in touch. You know, we have concerns, get in touch. You know, we have those concerns, get in touch. You know, we have those specialist support available for parents and for young people available for parents and for young people particularly. A lot available for parents and for young people particularly. People particularly. A lot of the outh people particularly. A lot of the youth services, people particularly. A lot of the youth services, though, people particularly. A lot of the youth services, though, they i people particularly. A lot of the i youth services, though, they dont want youth services, though, they dont want to youth services, though, they dont want to engage youth services, though, they dont want to engage in youth services, though, they dont want to engage in the youth services, though, they dont want to engage in the services, i want to engage in the services, these want to engage in the services, these young want to engage in the services, these young people. Want to engage in the services, these young people. No. Want to engage in the services, these young people. No. Thats want to engage in the services, these young people. No. Thats the issue these young people. Thats the issue youve got. Maybe these young people. Thats the issue youve got. Maybe if these young people. Thats the issue youve got. Maybe if you issue youve got. Maybe if you tackle issue youve got. Maybe if you tackle it issue youve got. Maybe if you tackle it with issue youve got. Maybe if you tackle it with the issue youve got. Maybe if you tackle it with the parents, issue youve got. Maybe if you tackle it with the parents, get| issue youve got. Maybe if you. Tackle it with the parents, get the parents tackle it with the parents, get the parents or tackle it with the parents, get the parents or the tackle it with the parents, get the parents or the carers tackle it with the parents, get the parents or the carers on tackle it with the parents, get the parents or the carers on board. I parents or the carers on board. Yeah, parents or the carers on board. Yeah, absolutely. Parents or the carers on board. Yeah, absolutely. That parents or the carers on board. Yeah, absolutely. That is i parents or the carers on board. Yeah, absolutely. That is suchl parents or the carers on board. I yeah, absolutely. That is such an important yeah, absolutely. That is such an important part. Because they are the caregivers important part. Because they are the caregivers and responsible. We urge them caregivers and responsible. We urge them to caregivers and responsible. We urge them to reach out. If they are concerned, report it to the right people concerned, report it to the right eole. � , concerned, report it to the right eole. V , concerned, report it to the right eole. � ,. , people. Its ust so sad. It really is. And people. Itsjust so sad. It really is and tom people. Itsjust so sad. It really is. And tom noble people. Itsjust so sad. It really is. And tom noble from people. Itsjust so sad. It really is. And tom noble from the i people. Itsjust so sad. It really i is. And tom noble from the Charity Guidint is. And tom noble from the Charity Guiding Young is. And tom noble from the Charity Guiding Young minds, is. And tom noble from the Charity Guiding Young minds, he is. And tom noble from the Charity Guiding Young minds, he used i is. And tom noble from the Charity Guiding Young minds, he used to i guiding young minds, he used to carry a knife 15 years ago and he talks to people Carrying Knives. Good morning. Bill talks to people Carrying Knives. Good morning. Talks to people Carrying Knives. I good morning. Im good morning. All right, nick. Im lookint at good morning. All right, nick. Im looking at Research Good morning. All right, nick. Im looking at Research Done good morning. All right, nick. Im looking at Research Done in good morning. All right, nick. Im| looking at Research Done in london relating to the aspect of this that we have been concentrating on, the kind of arms race and why do people carry them, the majority of Research Carried into Weapon Carrying has pointed to self defence and protection as a key reason why young people carry knives. Significantly, protecting themselves from others carrying weapons was considered to outweigh the risk of being caught by police, which is the port made point made by serin stockport. We recognise the decision to carry knives is often more complex and in many cases, knives are not carried for protection but to intimidate others. Facilitate robbery, deliberately injure or kill or simply for perceived power and the status, as well. Why did you carry one, anton . Status, as well. Why did you carry one. Anton . Status, as well. Why did you carry one, anton . ,. ,. ,. , one, anton . The reason i carried one was to fit in my friends did it and it worked. When my friends did it and it worked. When i my friends did it and it worked. When i carried it, it was not banned when i carried it, it was not banned. Knife carrying was not illegal, banned. Knife carrying was not illegal, to banned. Knife carrying was not illegal, to carry a knife. To be fair, illegal, to carry a knife. To be fair, in illegal, to carry a knife. To be fair, in the illegal, to carry a knife. To be fair, in the generation that i got brought fair, in the generation that i got brought up in, a lot of females carried brought up in, a lot of females carried knives back then as well. Yeah, carried knives back then as well. Yeah, it carried knives back then as well. Yeah, it is carried knives back then as well. Yeah, it is notjust a male problem. Its yeah, it is notjust a male problem. Its not yeah, it is notjust a male problem. Its notjust yeah, it is notjust a male problem. Its notjust men yeah, it is notjust a male problem. Its notjust men, females yeah, it is notjust a male problem. Its notjust men, females used i yeah, it is notjust a male problem. Its notjust men, females used to i its notjust men, females used to carry its notjust men, females used to carry it its notjust men, females used to carry it a lot its notjust men, females used to carry it a lot. It was for protection but also it was. Its like If Protection but also it was. Its like if you protection but also it was. Its like if you didnt carry it, you felt like if you didnt carry it, you felt naked, you felt like you didnt~~ felt naked, you felt like you didnt. You couldnt protect yourself didnt. You couldnt protect yourself. But you can protect yourself yourself. But you can protect yourself. Its all in the mindset of the mind yourself. Its all in the mindset of the mind. But when youre involved in certain the mind. But when youre involved in certain things, either streets. You put in certain things, either streets. You put yourself at high risk. So, at any you put yourself at high risk. So, at any moment, youve got people that dont at any moment, youve got people that dont like you who could come and challenge you and put you in a situation and challenge you and put you in a situation that will destroy your credibility and your respect. So, i think credibility and your respect. So, i think why credibility and your respect. So, i think why i credibility and your respect. So, i think why i carried it was due to trying think why i carried it was due to trying to think why i carried it was due to trying to belong. Think why i carried it was due to trying to belong think why i carried it was due to trying to belong. Yeah, that goes back to the trying to belong. Yeah, that goes back to the conformity trying to belong. Yeah, that goes back to the conformity point, i trying to belong. Yeah, that goes back to the conformity point, as i back to the conformity point, as well, back to the conformity point, as well, doesnt back to the conformity point, as well, doesnt it . Back to the conformity point, as well, doesnt it . Back to the conformity point, as well, doesnt it . Yeah. Anton, what does respect well, doesnt it . Yeah. Anton, what does respect mean . Respect that i thought it was was the more respect that i thought it was was the more you do for your friends and your group the more you do for your friends and your group and you stand by them, even your group and you stand by them, even if your group and you stand by them, even if you your group and you stand by them, even if you get yourself in a situation even if you get yourself in a situation where you may lose your life and situation where you may lose your life and you situation where you may lose your life and you stick up for your friends, life and you stick up for your friends, your respect grows within your group friends, your respect grows within your group of friends. But the respect now that i speak to young but the respect now that i speak to young people, that aint respect. Respect young people, that aint respect. Respect is young people, that aint respect. Respect is where you honour the community. Where you dont lie to your friends community. Where you dont lie to your friends parents that they are going your friends parents that they are going out your friends parents that they are going out to a party when your friends going out to a party when your Friends Family say they shouldnt lo. Friends family say they shouldnt go. Respect is something you do for yourself go. Respect is something you do for yourself that you could give to others yourself that you could give to others a yourself that you could give to others. A lot of these young people these others. A lot of these young people these days others. A lot of these young people these days dont respect themselves. Because these days dont respect themselves. Because they aint been taught to respect because they aint been taught to respect themselves. Theyve been taught respect themselves. Theyve been taught to respect themselves. Theyve been taught to show respect is earned and given taught to show respect is earned and given but taught to show respect is earned and given. But if it is earned and given given. But if it is earned and given if given. But if it is earned and given, if you cant respect yourself first, given, if you cant respect yourself first, you given, if you cant respect yourself first, you aint even earned the respect first, you aint even earned the respect yet for yourself. So, how is somebody respect yet for yourself. So, how is Somebody Else supposed to earn the respect Somebody Else supposed to earn the respect for Somebody Else supposed to earn the respect for the person . I think these respect for the person . I think these kids respect for the person . I think these kids need a lot of mentoring. Theyve these kids need a lot of mentoring. Theyve been left alone. Thats because theyve been left alone. Thats because of society, not a parents have because of society, not a parents have to because of society, not a parents have to work all the time. They cant have to work all the time. They cant keep have to work all the time. They cant keep an eye on their kids, what cant keep an eye on their kids, what theyre doing a lot of parents what theyre doing a lot of parents have to work all the time. Social parents have to work all the time. Social media is 24 7 in the kids Heads Social Media is 24 7 in the kids heads. Theres lots of things that happen heads. Theres lots of things that happen on heads. Theres lots of things that happen on social media that gets into their happen on social media that gets into their heads and thats because their parents, because of society, where their parents, because of society, where parents have to survive. And if they where parents have to survive. And if they dont. If they are always with if they dont. If they are always with their if they dont. If they are always with their kids, they cant feed them, with their kids, they cant feed them, they cant but electric in, they them, they cant but electric in, they cant them, they cant but electric in, they cant put gas in. Its very challenging, very challenging error that these young people are in. Two very challenging era. What that these young people are in. Two very challenging era. Very challenging era. What kind of violence did very challenging era. What kind of violence did you very challenging era. What kind of violence did you see very challenging era. What kind of violence did you see or very challenging era. What kind of. Violence did you see or experience . I saw a lot. I saw a lot with my friends i saw a lot. I saw a lot with my friends getting beaten up, bullied, taken friends getting beaten up, bullied, taken. Held hostage. Myself, i got chased out of buildings, chased out of clubs. I think buildings, chased out of clubs. I think with buildings, chased out of clubs. I think with young people, they think that when think with young people, they think that when you are involved in a gang. That when you are involved in a gang. You that when you are involved in a gang, you are more safe that you are not, gang, you are more safe that you are not. You gang, you are more safe that you are not. You are gang, you are more safe that you are not, you are more at risk. You are more not, you are more at risk. You are more at not, you are more at risk. You are more at risk not, you are more at risk. You are more at risk to not, you are more at risk. You are more at risk to yourself and to others more at risk to yourself and to others around you. Sometimes you are with friends others around you. Sometimes you are with friends that are not even involved with friends that are not even involved but you just being there is putting involved but you just being there is putting them at risk to you. At risk for them putting them at risk to you. At risk for them just to be with you. I dont for them just to be with you. I dont think for them just to be with you. I dont think these young people understand that they have a target on their understand that they have a target on their back and the target could be with on their back and the target could be with them for the rest of their life and be with them for the rest of their life and even when they have kids, some life and even when they have kids, some kids life and even when they have kids, some kids carry the fathers name and whatever you do can go on to your and whatever you do can go on to your kids and whatever you do can go on to your kids. And the kids even want to be in your kids. And the kids even want to be in these your kids. And the kids even want to be in these circles. Sometimes these troubles be in these circles. Sometimes these troubles that these kids are getting into now troubles that these kids are getting into now is troubles that these kids are getting into now is generational. That never ot into now is generational. That never got sorted into now is generational. That never got sorted. No mediation happened, never got sorted. No mediation happened, never got got sorted. No mediation happened, never got resolved and now the kids are picking never got resolved and now the kids are picking it up, picking up a fight are picking it up, picking up a fight that are picking it up, picking up a fight that they never should have been fight that they never should have been in fight that they never should have been in. Thats what happened to us, really been in. Thats what happened to us, really we been in. Thats what happened to us, really. We got put into a fight that we had really. We got put into a fight that we had to really. We got put into a fight that we had to pick up the sword and fight we had to pick up the sword and fitht. , i. Yeah. Once you are around a certain kind of yeah. Once you are around a certain kind of people that speak the same and they kind of people that speak the same and they are always around you, your mindset and they are always around you, your mindset changes to how they think and what mindset changes to how they think and what they say becomes right. This is and what they say becomes right. This is why and what they say becomes right. This is why i say to young people, you need this is why i say to young people, you need to this is why i say to young people, you need to analyse your Friendship Circle you need to analyse your Friendship Circle if you need to analyse your Friendship Circle if all you need to analyse your Friendship Circle. If all of your friends are saying circle. If all of your friends are saying the circle. If all of your friends are saying the same stuff, there is something wrong. They should be friends something wrong. They should be friends that disagree, there has to be a disagreement. That friends that disagree, there has to be a disagreement. Be a disagreement. That is a profound be a disagreement. That is a profound thought be a disagreement. That is a profound thought and be a disagreement. That is a profound thought and it i be a disagreement. That is a i profound thought and it applies to everybody in the world. What is the difference between a friendship group, as you put it, and a gang . At, group, as you put it, and a gang . A friendship group, they want the best for friends friendship group, they want the best for friends and who loves them, family. For friends and who loves them, family, mums, father, cousins, anything family, mums, father, cousins, anything like that, a Friendship Circle anything like that, a Friendship Circle you anything like that, a Friendship Circle, you want the best for a person circle, you want the best for a person and circle, you want the best for a person and those around them. A gang is a Friendship Circle that wants to find a is a Friendship Circle that wants to find a belonging, feels rejected from find a belonging, feels rejected from the find a belonging, feels rejected from the community and rejected from the home from the community and rejected from the home and they want to find a piece the home and they want to find a piece but the home and they want to find a piece. But broken people cannot mend each other~ piece. But broken people cannot mend each other. Only a healed person can mend each other. Only a healed person can mend a each other. Only a healed person can mend a person. It is Trauma Bonding. A lot mend a person. It is Trauma Bonding. A lot of mend a person. It is Trauma Bonding. A lot of the mend a person. It is Trauma Bonding. A lot of the gangs or Trauma Bonding a lot of the gangs or Trauma Bonding. They relate to, i have not ot bonding. They relate to, i have not got a bonding. They relate to, i have not got a father, my mum takes drugs, my mum got a father, my mum takes drugs, my mum and got a father, my mum takes drugs, my mum and dad got a father, my mum takes drugs, my mum and dad always work and neglect me and mum and dad always work and neglect me and dont give me attention, never me and dont give me attention, never come me and dont give me attention, never come to my football games. All of those never come to my football games. All of those stuff forms into hurt. A gang of those stuff forms into hurt. A gang is of those stuff forms into hurt. A gang is a of those stuff forms into hurt. A gang is a hurt form of friendship that is gang is a hurt form of friendship that is trying to find healing that hurts that is trying to find healing that hurts other people to find healing. It never works. Itjust makes your hurt it never works. Itjust makes your hurt worse it never works. It ust makes your hurt worse. It never works. It ust makes your hurt worse. ,. ,. Hurt worse. One more thought. We touched on hurt worse. One more thought. We touched on this hurt worse. One more thought. We touched on this earlier hurt worse. One more thought. We touched on this earlier on. Hurt worse. One more thought. We touched on this earlier on. Why i touched on this earlier on. Why dont they realise that they could be sent to prison for 16 years . Prison, if you see prison now, it is showboat, prison, if you see prison now, it is showboat, come in here, he will be all right, showboat, come in here, he will be all right, you showboat, come in here, he will be all right, you can get anything in here all right, you can get anything in here, there is nothing that i cannot et here, there is nothing that i cannot get in here, there is nothing that i cannot get in prison here, there is nothing that i cannot get in prison that they can do outside get in prison that they can do outside. The young people and adults iwork outside. The young people and adults i work with outside. The young people and adults i work with in prison now, when you sit down i work with in prison now, when you sit down and i work with in prison now, when you sit down and talk with them, it is not what sit down and talk with them, it is not what they thought it is. Boredom, isolation, doing the same thing boredom, isolation, doing the same thing over boredom, isolation, doing the same thing over and over boredom, isolation, doing the same thing overand overagain boredom, isolation, doing the same thing over and over again because you have thing over and over again because you have two, the deepest part that hurts you have two, the deepest part that hurts a you have two, the deepest part that hurts a person in prison is when people hurts a person in prison is when people come to visit and they have to leave people come to visit and they have to leave and they have no control over to leave and they have no control over when to leave and they have no control over when the person has to leave them over when the person has to leave them i over when the person has to leave them. I think these young people, they are them. I think these young people, they are being captured, like grooming. County lines. It is an illusion grooming. County lines. It is an illusion. They showboat it is good but when illusion. They showboat it is good but when they get into it, every kid that gets but when they get into it, every kid that gets into it, they dont like it at all~ that gets into it, they dont like it at all. That is what jail is. It is like it at all. That is what jail is. It is like a it at all. That is what jail is. It is like a honey trap. It is gloating, you will be all right in there gloating, you will be all right in there. Once they go in, they dont like it there. Once they go in, they dont like it they there. Once they go in, they dont like it. They would not wish it on their like it. They would not wish it on their friends. This is why they speak their friends. This is why they speak to their friends. This is why they speak to their friends to say, dont come speak to their friends to say, dont come in speak to their friends to say, dont come in here, stop what youre doing. Come in here, stop what youre doing. Its come in here, stop what youre doing, its not worth it. I did a talk doing, its not worth it. I did a talk with doing, its not worth it. I did a talk with lifers, every single one and a talk with lifers, every single one and a hurt talk with lifers, every single one and a hurt place, when i did a scenario and a hurt place, when i did a scenario with them to speak to their old selves. Scenario with them to speak to their old selves, the worst they were speaking old selves, the worst they were speaking to their old self is, i should speaking to their old self is, i should never did that, i dont know why i should never did that, i dont know why i did should never did that, i dont know why i did that, i wish i had people around why i did that, i wish i had people around me why i did that, i wish i had people around me that could have corrected me, around me that could have corrected me should around me that could have corrected me, should have never had friends around me, should have never had friends around me me, should have never had friends around me that gloated me to do wrong, around me that gloated me to do wrong, i around me that gloated me to do wrong, i needed someone to tell me no, a wrong, i needed someone to tell me no, a parent wrong, i needed someone to tell me no, a parent Strong Enough to say, youre no, a parent Strong Enough to say, youre not no, a parent Strong Enough to say, youre not going out, that kind of stuff youre not going out, that kind of stuff yeah, youre not going out, that kind of stuff. Yeah, very deep. Youre not going out, that kind of stuff. Yeah, very deep. Thanks very much, stuff. Yeah, very deep. Thanks very much. Anton stuff. Yeah, very deep. Thanks very much, anton noble. Stuff. Yeah, very deep. Thanks very much, anton noble. Broken stuff. Yeah, very deep. Thanks very much, anton noble. Broken peoplej much, anton noble. Broken people cannot hear each other. Let me do some text, a bit late for the news, but i want to reflect on what some people are saying. I cannot thank you enough, pooja kanda. Born in Cardigan Commissariat in stockport, strong contributions. My son was held up by two people in east croydon with a machete. Lucky they did not stab him. They took his coat. Police went after them but they were out run. They are on the loose doing it to more people. Another, i am shocked to hear what happened in croydon yesterday, i have kids in university using Public Transport and often coming home late, how are we going to live a normal life from now on . This lady is correct, i live in croydon with teenagers, all about culture, the parents havent done enough to nurture their kids. Thanks for that as well. Here is the news. Thank you, nicky. Investigations are continuing into the fatal stabbing of a 15 Year Old Girl on her way to school yesterday in south london. The girl, who witnesses say was stabbed in the neck with a large knife, was described as having a bright future. A 17 year old boy is being questioned. A bbc investigation has found over 150 reports of Police Officers misusing their body worn cameras. In some cases, theyre being switched off when force is used. In others, footage is being shared on social media. The officer in charge of the cameras says the majority of recordings show good practice. An independent Health Think Tank is calling for nhs workers in england to have their Student Loans written off after ten years of service. The idea has been put forward by the Nuffield Trust to try to retain staff. The government has rejected the suggestion, saying support is already in place. National grid says the risk of Electricity Blackouts is much lower this winter compared with last year. It says its due to increased generation and managing demand, although its still planning to offer incentives to households to decrease Electricity Use at peak times. Jon wilkinson has your sport. Mauricio pochettino says its about time chelseas season had a Turning Point after their 1 0 win over brighton in the third round of the efl cup. Theyd won just three of 21 games spanning two seasons before last nights victory. Newcastles win against Manchester City sets up a fourth round match with Manchester United west ham will play arsenal, bournemouth take on liverpool, and everton will host burnley, amongst the other ties. The Scottish League cup semifinals have also been confirmed. Itll be hearts against rangers, and hibernian against aberdeen, after last nights games. And well find out the ryder cup Foursomes Pairings at the end of this afternoons Opening Ceremony in rome. It all starts at three. Our coverage starts in 5 live breakfast tomorrow morning. What a first segment of the programme, extraordinary. Ten oclock, we are discussing knife crime until ten oclock on the radio and telly. At ten, for viewers on bbc two and bbc news, well bring you the latest national and international news. We will carry on our discussion. Are our teens safe . Thanks again to all of our contributors and those who got in touch in the first part of the programme. Pooja kanda, a mum who will not give up, her son ronan who will not give up, her son ronan who was 15. She is determined to stop the knives being sold online. Really central to the proliferation of these lethal instruments. 15 year old brotherjermaine was stabbed in croydon in 2017, now works in schools alongside the met police. Hello to you. Croydon, lots of people texting us about that particular part of london as well. Patrick greene another guest, Chief Executive of a trust. Patrick in hertfordshire. I will continue first, patrick, you got in touch and we had to keep you waiting a little, good morning. We had to keep you waiting a little, good morning we had to keep you waiting a little, good morning. Good morning, nicky. Patrick in hertfordshire, good morning. Good morning, nicky. Patrick in hertfordshire, what good morning. Good morning, nicky. Patrick in hertfordshire, what is patrick in hertfordshire, what is your contribution . It is unbearable, unspeakable, isnt it . It is your contribution . It is unbearable, unspeakable, isnt it . Unspeakable, isnt it . It is so depressing. Unspeakable, isnt it . It is so depressing. I unspeakable, isnt it . It is so depressing, i am unspeakable, isnt it . It is so depressing, i am a unspeakable, isnt it . It is so depressing, i am a retired i unspeakable, isnt it . It is so i depressing, i am a retired police officer, nicky. In 2013, iwrote depressing, i am a retired police officer, nicky. In 2013, i wrote to my local mp at the time, robert halfon, because i was opposed to theresa mays trying to water down threatening Police Officers not to do stop and search. In my letter, i explained this had been tried in 1998, it failed. I know stop and searches a very emotive subject, but i predicted this would happen. There is no deterrent for these young people because they know they are very rarely going to be stopped, the police now seem to use section 60 which is after the event which is not proactive, it is reactive. I just appeal for people to oppose stop and search tactics to actually look around what is happening and evenif look around what is happening and even if it was stepped up short term, this is more than stop and search, there has to be more long term. Cuts to services have been a disgrace for all of the young people. I think a lot of young people, like previous callers said, then would never have thought of Carrying Knives. It was for their own protection. It is predictable. I am so incensed and sad. My condolences and heart goes out to all of that young people over the last few years, all people, that have. I appeal to people who oppose stop and search. All of the communities, every community. To stop and think about it. We cannot go on like this. This is ridiculous and sad, so sad. It go on like this. This is ridiculous and sad, so sad. And sad, so sad. It is a complex issue because and sad, so sad. It is a complex issue because those and sad, so sad. It is a complex issue because those who and sad, so sad. It is a complex issue because those who are i issue because those who are concerned about stop and search, of whom there are many, they will say it inflames tensions in communities. I agree, nicky. It inflames tensions in communities. Iagree, nicky. I it inflames tensions in communities. I agree, nicky. I was a police officer, i was 18 years in london, and anotherforce, but officer, i was 18 years in london, and another force, but at the moment, no one has come up with anything better. It is notjust about stop and search. Neighbourhood policing has been destroyed, by the cuts, where officers and pco is in the local community got to know youngsters before they got involved in this culture. That has been destroyed. Theresa may has a lot to answer for. Destroyed. Theresa may has a lot to answerfor. But destroyed. Theresa may has a lot to answer for. But we are where we are at the moment. Ijust answer for. But we are where we are at the moment. I just think people. I understand totally what you are saying, but if searches are carried out with respect. I work in east london, hackney, for 12 of my 30 years, stop and search, i never got a complaint because i was respectful, took time. I know people will come on who have had a bad experience. But we cannot go on like this where there is no deterrent for young people to walk around with knives. They ruin their life. They ruin their life as well. As well as the familys life and the victims. My the familys life and the victims. My condolences and heart goes out to all of the people caught up in this. This isjust the people killed. There are people also badly injured. And, patrick, of course family devastated forever. Let me pick up and run with that, deterrent. You lostjermaine, i am so sorry about what happened to your 15 year old brother. Maybe you can tell us about that in a moment. What deterrent. What will deter people . What will stop young people carrying these weapons and doing this . At, 11th stop young people carrying these weapons and doing this . Weapons and doing this . A lot of eole weapons and doing this . A lot of people have weapons and doing this . A lot of people have highlighted weapons and doing this . A lot of people have highlighted on i weapons and doing this . A lot of people have highlighted on the l weapons and doing this . A lot of i people have highlighted on the show so far people have highlighted on the show so far there people have highlighted on the show so farthere are people have highlighted on the show so far there are a lot of cuts to youth so far there are a lot of cuts to youth clubs and certain resources young youth clubs and certain resources young people need in order to keep them young people need in order to keep them occupied. Without that, a lot of young them occupied. Without that, a lot of young people find other avenues of young people find other avenues of hanging out with one another and most of hanging out with one another and most times, Unfortunately, there are older most times, Unfortunately, there are older people, people in circles on the community that will Unfortunately take them down the wrong Unfortunately take them down the wrong route. Very easy to get caught up wrong route. Very easy to get caught up in wrong route. Very easy to get caught up in that wrong route. Very easy to get caught up in that lifestyle Unfortunately. Unless up in that lifestyle Unfortunately. Unless we have more funding, more resources, unless we have more funding, more resources, in unless we have more funding, more resources, in local communities, nothing resources, in local communities, nothing will resources, in local communities, nothing will change. Nothing will change. What about Patricks Point nothing will change. What about Patricks Point about nothing will change. What about Patricks Point about stop nothing will change. What about Patricks Point about stop and i Patricks Point about stop and search . The Home SecretarySuella Braveman presented figures recently when she was talking, new data, she said, shows more than 100,000 weapons have been removed from the street since 2019 from a range of tactics, almost half from stop and search, leading to 220,000 arrests, latest data shows Serious Violence has been driven down by. Stop and search significantly successful, she says. Should it be ramped up . Yes. Search significantly successful, she says. Should it be ramped up . Yes, i am on. Says. Should it be ramped up . Yes, i am on and says. Should it be ramped up . Yes, i am on. And such, says. Should it be ramped up . Yes, i am on. And such, i says. Should it be ramped up . Yes, i am on. And such, i think says. Should it be ramped up . Yes, i am on. And such, i think it says. Should it be ramped up . Yes, i am on. And such, i think it is am on. And such, i think it is needed, only way we will protect our young people because stop and search. Young people carrying weapons down their trouser legs, behind their backs, not small weapons, they are like swords. The only way we are going to be able to protect our young people going to school, just walking out on a weekend, there are a lot of young people Walking Around with knives down their trouser legs and behind their backs. Without police stopping and searching young people. It can be anyones child targeted, wrong place, wrong time, small encounter, you know, it could be anything, once the knife is out, the young person will use the knife because there is a lot of peer pressure to use it. Why are they desensitised to the fact that if they use it they will kill, they will maim, kill somebody, take a life, why does not matter to them . �. , take a life, why does not matter to them . � ,. ,. , take a life, why does not matter to them . � ,. ,. ,. ,. Them . Because Unfortunately social media does glorify them . Because Unfortunately social media does glorify a them . Because Unfortunately social media does glorify a lot them . Because Unfortunately social media does glorify a lot of them . Because Unfortunately social media does glorify a lot of the i media does glorify a lot of the stuff that we dont agree with. You have got platforms which i will not name but contributed to my brothers death. He was not involved in that. Social media has a big part to play and that is why our young people are so desensitised by murders and killings. That is the reason why we do what we do at the foundation, we are to bring back that level of empathy and it starts from primary school. ,. , empathy and it starts from primary school. ,. ,. , school. Empathy, yeah, that is the word. Tell school. Empathy, yeah, that is the word tell me school. Empathy, yeah, that is the word. Tell me about school. Empathy, yeah, that is the word. Tell me about jermaine i school. Empathy, yeah, that is the word. Tell me about jermaine and | word. Tell me aboutjermaine and also, if he would, what happened. Mt; also, if he would, what happened. Ij� i brother also, if he would, what happened. Ii brother when also, if he would, what happened. Ii brother when he also, if he would, what happened. Ii1 brother when he was murdered at 15 years old, jermaine. He was out, summer holidays, regular day, on his way home, around nine, 930. He stopped at a shop. A car came around from another area, still croydon, another area in croydon, they had knives and weapons in the car, they were looking to target anyone they believed could be in a gang, from the local area, any type of association with another gang, and Unfortunatelyjermaine was on his way home and another senseless reason to tell a young person and he was targeted at that point when they saw him. He was the one that got stabbed Unfortunately. He was stabbed Unfortunately. He was stabbed in his leg, different areas, in his leg was the one that killed him. He did not make it to hospital. Please do get in touch with us on this, 85058 untaxed, 08085 909693, keep your comments coming in, they are vital. On text. Im so sorry about what happened, that they must have been the worst day ever. Worst da of m have been the worst day ever. Worst day of my life have been the worst day ever. Worst day of my life and have been the worst day ever. Worst day of my life and still have been the worst day ever. Worst day of my life and still to have been the worst day ever. Worst day of my life and still to this have been the worst day ever. Iirr� st day of my life and still to this day six years in i am still comprehending howl six years in i am still comprehending how i processed it and manage that, my family managed it. I was the first Family Member on the scene, i was by myself. A lot of people from the community my family knew, jermaine new. When i was given the news and i sat down in the car at the time to say he has been pronounced dead at the scene, it broke me. I almost was in a bubble, i did not know where i was at. Having to call my Family Members to tell them what happened. Yeah, no words that can describe that type of pain and i prayed that no other young person has to go through that and a family has to go through that again and the murder that happened yesterday in croydon absolutely devastating and very triggering. I can only imagine. It devastating and very triggering. I can only imagine. Can only imagine. It must have been. Can only imagine. It must have been but can only imagine. It must have been but it can only imagine. It must have been. But it will can only imagine. It must have been. But it will happen can only imagine. It must have been. But it will happen again. L can only imagine. It must have l been. But it will happen again. We know it will. Been. But it will happen again. We know it will been. But it will happen again. We know it will. ,. ,. , know it will. Yeah. I would hope not and i hope know it will. Yeah. I would hope not and i hope that know it will. Yeah. I would hope not and i hope that you know it will. Yeah. I would hope not and i hope that you guys know it will. Yeah. I would hope not and i hope that you guys and know it will. Yeah. I would hope not and i hope that you guys and the. And i hope that you guys and the sizing and having this conversation is so key and the more we have these conversations, the more we can get our voices heard and empathising. It should notjust be the families going through that voice is that, should be everyone because it is everyone� s responsibility because it could be anyone� s child next. Everyones responsibility because it could be anyones child next. People often sa , could be anyones child next. People often say. We could be anyones child next. People often say, we need could be anyones child next. People often say, we need a could be anyones child next. People often say, we need a national often say, we need a national debate, national conversation. We really do and we are going through to 11 on this. Thank you so much. Listen to nicola and kieran. But one, nikla, what would you like to say . Good morning, nicola. My say . Good morning, nicola. My son, he say . Good morning, nicola. My son, he has been attacked so many times son, he has been attacked so many times he son, he has been attacked so many times. He was wearing a stab proof vest to times. He was wearing a stab proof vest to leave the house. He was being vest to leave the house. He was being targeted by police saying to him, being targeted by police saying to him. You being targeted by police saying to him, you have to be in a gang. He was saying. Him, you have to be in a gang. He was saying, no, iam him, you have to be in a gang. He was saying, no, i am terrified to leave was saying, no, i am terrified to leave the was saying, no, i am terrified to leave the house in case i get stuffed~ leave the house in case i get stuffed~ leave the house in case i get stuffed. Get stabbed. He then got robbed stuffed. Get stabbed. He then got robbed of stuffed. Get stabbed. He then got robbed of his stab proof vest. Now he will robbed of his stab proof vest. Now he will not robbed of his stab proof vest. Now he will not leave the house at all. He will he will not leave the house at all. He will not he will not leave the house at all. He will not even go to the shop. He is inside he will not even go to the shop. He is inside the he will not even go to the shop. He is inside the house seven days a week, is inside the house seven days a week, 24 is inside the house seven days a week, 24 hours a day, climbing the walls. Week, 24 hours a day, climbing the walls. But week, 24 hours a day, climbing the walls, but the fear now, he got dragged walls, but the fear now, he got dragged into a house at knife point in harlow dragged into a house at knife point in Harlow Town Centre in front of hundreds in Harlow Town Centre in front of hundreds of shoppers who did absolutely nothing. They let them dra absolutely nothing. They let them drag him absolutely nothing. They let them drag him off his bike through a foot tunnel drag him off his bike through a foot tunnel into drag him off his bike through a foot tunnel into a house. A few weeks later, tunnel into a house. A few weeks later, they tunnel into a house. A few weeks later, they stabbed somebody to death later, they stabbed somebody to death in later, they stabbed somebody to death in the house. When we went to the police death in the house. When we went to the police on the day it happened, he was the police on the day it happened, he was out the police on the day it happened, he was out of the Police Station before he was out of the Police Station before we he was out of the Police Station before we had even finished, even though before we had even finished, even though he before we had even finished, even though he was. The knife they put to my though he was. The knife they put to my sons though he was. The knife they put to my sons throat on him. The police to my sons throat on him. The police said to my sons throat on him. The police said they had nothing. A few weeks police said they had nothing. A few weeks later when they stabbed the other weeks later when they stabbed the other man to death, the police were all over other man to death, the police were all over it. Other man to death, the police were allover it. I other man to death, the police were all over it, i was in hospital than and they all over it, i was in hospital than and they were ringing me and ringing me and and they were ringing me and ringing me and ringing me. A bit late now. If me and ringing me. A bit late now. If they me and ringing me. A bit late now. If they had me and ringing me. A bit late now. If they had done something about thism if they had done something about thism my if they had done something about this. My son obviously was not the first victim this. My son obviously was not the first victim. Maybe that man would not have first victim. Maybe that man would not have died a few weeks after. All that happens is that gang goes to prison that happens is that gang goes to prison and another gang are in their place prison and another gang are in their place so. Prison and another gang are in their place. So, because if you live especially. Teenagers are no more than they especially. Teenagers are no more than they are especially. Teenagers are no more than they are letting on. Teenagers teenagers, they know more than theyre teenagers, they know more than theyre letting on, they dont talk to their theyre letting on, they dont talk to their parents, they are Carrying Knives. To their parents, they are Carrying Knives, their parents know nothing about knives, their parents know nothing about it knives, their parents know nothing about it because this culture of carrying about it because this culture of Carrying Knives. There are kids carrying Carrying Knives. There are kids carrying them because they are terrified carrying them because they are terrified of other kids. Then you have terrified of other kids. Then you have got terrified of other kids. Then you have got the older ones that are controlling the kids that are putting controlling the kids that are putting the fear into them even more putting the fear into them even more. And theyre only has to be a little more. And theyre only has to be a little rumour more. And theyre only has to be a little rumour going around between all of the little rumour going around between all of the teenagers, you know, that one has all of the teenagers, you know, that one has done something, and then they will one has done something, and then they will be threatened. There are 12 year olds round here Carrying Knives 12 year olds round here Carrying Knives. They cannot work because the knife is knives. They cannot work because the knife is digging in the leg. Adults do not knife is digging in the leg. Adults do not know what is going on they cannot do not know what is going on they cannot walk do not know what is going on they cannot walk. The teenagers are keeping cannot walk. The teenagers are keeping it cannot walk. The teenagers are keeping it to themselves. And the culture, keeping it to themselves. And the culture, taking, you know, my son, he took culture, taking, you know, my son, he took a culture, taking, you know, my son, he took a knife to soon they took a knife he took a knife to soon they took a knife to he took a knife to soon they took a knife to school when he was 12, threatened a knife to school when he was 12, threatened him. He was at a boarding school threatened him. He was at a boarding school for threatened him. He was at a boarding school for kids with special needs. The Reason School for kids with special needs. The reason i pulled him out at 13 was because the other kids at school had robbed was because the other kids at school had robbed him at knife point in a part of had robbed him at knife point in a part of his had robbed him at knife point in a part of his bike and everything else~ part of his bike and everything else~ the part of his bike and everything else. The boy even took the knife to school else. The boy even took the knife to school and the school still wouldnt to school and the school still wouldnt have it. To school and the school still wouldnt have it. Nicola that point there, 12yearolds wouldnt have it. Nicola that point there, 12yearolds carrying wouldnt have it. Nicola that point i there, 12yearolds Carrying Knives, there, 12 year olds Carrying Knives, patrick green, good to have you on, Chief Executive of that then can sell a trust, 12 year olds Carrying Knives pcos. figs sell a trust, 12yearolds Carrying Knives pcos. Sell a trust, 12yearolds Carrying Knives pcos. As soon as they hit secondary knives pcos. As soon as they hit secondary school, knives pcos. As soon as they hit secondary school, it knives pcos. As soon as they hit secondary school, it changes secondary school, it changes overnight Ben Kinsella Trust. Innocent overnight Ben Kinsella Trust. Innocent kids, as soon as they start secondary innocent kids, as soon as they start secondary school, whatever secondary school ~~ secondary school, whatever secondary school. � ,. ,. , school. Because of the influences around them school. Because of the influences around them. Let school. Because of the influences around them. Let us school. Because of the influences around them. Let us get school. Because of the influences around them. Let us get patrick around them. Let us get patrick greens response to that. I agree with everything greens response to that. I agree with everything the greens response to that. I agree with everything the caller greens response to that. I agree with everything the caller has greens response to that. I agree| with everything the caller hasjust with everything the caller has just said. Statistics pack it up. Knife carrying is relatively rare below the age of 13, 14, but what we see in terms of the statistics it rapidly increases in 14, 15 and 16 years onwards. That is why work in schools, their work pcos do, getting in early and helping young people their work Ben Kinsella Trust do. For young people it is about staying safe. ,. , for young people it is about staying safe,. , for young people it is about staying safe yeah. For young people it is about staying safe. Yeah, exactly. Safe. Staying safe. Yeah, exactly. As we know. Safe. Staying safe. Yeah, exactly. As we know, the safe. Staying safe. Yeah, exactly. As we know, the worst safe. Staying safe. Yeah, exactly. As we know, the worst thing safe. Staying safe. Yeah, exactly. As we know, the worst thing you i safe. Staying safe. Yeah, exactly. | as we know, the worst thing you can do, it increases the risks for yourself and everybody around you. The work we have done, working with 6000 young people, young people who do not feel safe where they live, go to school, where they play, three times more likely to think a knife or protect them than young people who do feel safe. Each piece of work here about helping young people, reassure them, helping young people feel safe, putting in practical measures to improve safety. If you do that, you reduce the need or desire for young people to carry a knife. Another quick point, we have seen a massive growth in the last ten years fuelled by social media. Mentioned earlier on by another caller. It normalises Carrying Knives, desensitises young people to violence and even glamorises violence. Social media has been a game changer over the last 12 years and the net about the knife protecting he was getting stronger rather than weaker. The mess about the knife protecting you. Its, about the knife protecting you. A game changer . Reaching about the knife protecting you. A game changer . Reaching youngl about the knife protecting you. A game changer . Reaching young people in a way never game changer . Reaching young people in a way never done game changer . Reaching young people in a way never done before. Game changer . Reaching young people in a way never done before. We game changer . Reaching young people in a way never done before. We are in a way never done before. We are about to run a workshop and i can guarantee you when we ask then those questions comparing them to the group we were talking to ten years ago, more of those young people now think a knife will protect them. How do we disabuse think a knife will protect them. How do we disabuse them of that notion . How do we get the message through that a knife will not protect them . It is about going into schools, like what it is about going into schools, like what patrick was saying, about targeting the places where young people targeting the places where young people set and where they are most of the people set and where they are most of the time. A lot of kids that carry of the time. A lot of kids that carry knives also are not in schools. Carry knives also are not in schools, they are in pupil referral units schools, they are in pupil referral units as schools, they are in pupil referral units as well. We need access, we need units as well. We need access, we need to units as well. We need access, we need to he units as well. We need access, we need to be allowed access in order to help need to be allowed access in order to help young people change their mindset to help young people change their mindset. Another point patrick highlighted, yes, we have 30 statistics telling us young people from the statistics telling us young people from the ages of 13 upwards carry knives. From the ages of 13 upwards carry knives. Trut from the ages of 13 upwards carry knives, but going into primary schools knives, but going into primary schools and disclosures we have schools and disclosures we have the schools and disclosures we have the statistics. I have spoken to young have the statistics. I have spoken to young kids saying, i have to carry to young kids saying, i have to carry a to young kids saying, i have to carry a knife because my sibling would carry a knife because my sibling would have got in trouble if they had got would have got in trouble if they had got stopped and searched. A lot of pressure had got stopped and searched. A lot of pressure sits on the shoulders heing of pressure sits on the shoulders being responsible for older siblings and peer being responsible for older siblings and peer pressure around them. I have and peer pressure around them. I have had and peer pressure around them. I have had a and peer pressure around them. I have had a young. I believe they were have had a young. I believe they were ten, have had a young. I believe they were ten, i have had a young. I believe they were ten, i have had a ten year old tell me were ten, i have had a ten year old tell me they were ten, i have had a ten year old tell me they have a in the back. They tell me they have a in the back. They have tell me they have a in the back. They have a tell me they have a in the back. They have a knife in their bag. That is where they have a knife in their bag. That is where we they have a knife in their bag. That is where we are in society. Is where we are in society. Utterly shockin , is where we are in society. Utterly shocking. A is where we are in society. Utterly shocking, a tenyearold is where we are in society. Utterly shocking, a tenyearold with is where we are in society. Utterly shocking, a tenyearold with a l shocking, a ten year old with a knife in their bag. Can i say to viewers on bbc news and bbc news and bbc two, thank you for watching. Now the national and international news. We will be carrying on this very important conversation on 5 live, we have two. Looking for thoughts as ever on solutions. How do we deal with this . How do we tackle it . We had to pick up the sword and fiht. , i. Live from london, this is bbc news. The us says it will work on an International Monitoring team for Nagorno Karabakh after azerbaijan took control of the territory during an offensive last week. 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