Wherever yourejoining me from around the world, once again, a big hello and a warm welcome to the show. You know, its quite shocking to realise that here in the uk, nearly one in ten women who experience Menopause Symptoms leave theirjobs because of them and a quarter consider quitting. The menopause is also being seen as one possible reason why women hold fewer of the top jobs than men. Menopause, it tends to happen when a woman is between 45 and 55, but it can happen even earlier. It will impact different women in different ways and there are dozens of different symptoms. And some women may not experience any of them at all. But among those symptoms are things like increased anxiety, difficulty sleeping, mood swings, brain fog and hot flushes. Things that can obviously impact on someone� s confidence, especially when they might be in a race for a top job. Plus, we are living longer. So globally, the menopause will impact more women. According to the who, the world health organization, in 2021, over a quarter of all Women In The World were in their fifties. In the united states, its estimated 6,000 women hit the menopause every day and menopause age women account for nearly a third of that entire american workforce. And the global value of goods and services aimed at the market has been estimated at nearly 17 billion. And thats a number thats growing. But before we get to the workplace and the commercial side of the menopause, lets talk to a leading doctor who specialises in this field and campaigns for better care of women experiencing symptoms. Shes also the founder of the balanced website and app, which has a host of medical Information Available for free to anyone who wants to know more. Dr louise newson, A Real Pleasure having you on the show. And louise, can wejust start with this . What is the menopause and does it impact women differently . If you break down the word menopause, meno is menstrual cycle, so womens periods pause is stop. Whats really weird about it is it actually for medical definition, you have to be a year without your period. Theres nothing else in medicine that i have to wait a year before making a diagnosis. What it means is that a womans ovaries arent working. Theyre either because weve got older and they stop working because we run out of eggs. The hormones associated with Egg Production Decline or women might have their ovaries removed for an operation, for example. The loss of hormones or the reduction in Hormone Levels can cause to symptoms because these hormones, oestrogen, testosterone, progesterone affect every single cell in our body. So many women experience symptoms which can last for a few months or a few years. Well, you mentioned symptoms, louisa. Just what sort of symptoms are we talking about . There really varies. So a lot of women get symptoms before they become menopausal. So in the perimenopause, which is the time leading up to the menopause, where our hormones start to decline, often in quite a chaotic way, actually, for many years weve always talked about the hot flushes and night sweats. They can be troublesome for many women, but the main symptoms are brain fog, memory problems, anxiety, fatigue, reduced libido, muscle and joint pains, headaches. And its no surprise because the hormones are really powerful in our brains. And louise, is it a case that some women just wont even notice it . Yeah, there are some women who say, you know what, iflew through the menopause, not a problem, didnt have any symptoms. But then often when you ask them directly, do you have as much energy as you used to have . Are you sleeping well . Have you had any urinary Tract Infections . Do you feel as joyful as you used to or any muscle orjoint pains . And often people go, yeah, but now im late, fifties or 60. Of course im going to feel like that. So not everyone has symptoms, but whether a woman has symptoms or not, they still have low hormones and low oestrogen in the body causes inflammation in the body. With low grade inflammation, theres an increased risk of diseases. And this is where i worry as a physician. And louise, as you know, i mean, were seeing a lot of products and services now being advertised. Its a multi billion dollar industry. Is that a positive step . No, i really worry about it. So, i mean, i dont work with any of these companies at all and i dont do any paid work with pharma just for complete transparency. I read somewhere the other day that its 120 billion a year is spent on menopause related products. But, you know, if i was a sassy businessperson thinking, well, its 1. 2 billion women worldwide are menopausal, how are we going to get them to buy some supplements orface cream or shampoo . And actucally, when i was struggling and was unable to receive treatment from the nhs, i would have spent a lot of money on anything to help me because it would have been cheaper than a divorce if it meant that i could keep myjob and my income. You know, people are very desperate to feel better. The advertising on some of these products is great. They also try and push people away from hrt. And its really worries me because theres no evidence, certainly, that a lot of the supplements will really make a difference. Theyre not going to improve future health as well. And the money thats being spent on this is just awful, actually. Well, on that point, dr louise newson, A Real Pleasure. Thanks forjoining me and ill talk to you soon. And if youre after more medical information about the menopause and its symptoms, you can find dr newson� s website at. And the uks nhs has a tonne of material as well on its site. You know, the impact of Menopause Symptoms can be so severe that, as weve said, women leave their job totally. One report found that almost one in every ten women who worked during their menopause left because of the symptoms. So i sat down with the woman whos been appointed by the uk government as the first menopause employment champion. Shes also the head of talent at the Recruitment Company adecco. Helen tomlinson, A Real Pleasure having you on my show. Thanks for your time. And helen, let me start with this, because im just wondering what kind of attitudes to the menopause are women here in the uk experiencing in the workplace . I think its really mixed. Its a really good question. So its really about education, allyship and cultural change in an organisation. So having as an example, having a policy is a really good starting point. So having a Menopause Policy is a great thing, but its absolutely not the be all and end all or the holy grail, because ultimately a policy is at best a pdf that goes in a file that if somebody needed to access it, it means that theyre not having a good experience. So its what you do when you launch the policy. Thats what creates a cultural change in an organisation. And helen, its been said that the menopause could be, could be one of the reasons or part of the reason that we see fewer women in ceo roles or on boards. I mean, theyre at an age where their skill set and all this vast experience and then boom, all of a sudden they get hit with, not not all, but get hit with the Menopause Symptoms. So the average age of a woman going into menopause is 51, the average age of perimenopause, which is really important to note, because actually a lot of the symptoms come with perimenopause. The average age of that is a1. So if you look at the average age of a woman going into a Leadership Role in a 4 500, that is about 51 as well. So its almost a perfect storm that youre probably going into the most Important Role of your career at that very moment when youre starting to experience perimenopause or menopause and overlay that with were having children arguably later in life, so youre probably still looking after children, you could be looking after ageing parents. If you put all that together and then you look at the psychological impact of menopause, which is often the key trigger for a woman in a Leadership Role, feeling that they need to step away or step down. And its Little Wonder that there are less and less women in Leadership Roles. Obviously, its notjust women at executive levels. I mean, what women go through it, whether they have the symptoms or not, youre absolutely right. Its not just about women in Leadership Roles. Its incredibly important that women in all sectors, in all types ofjobs and from different Race Ethnicities and Socio Economic demographics are supported. Helen, what would be the best advice to to teams and colleagues who are working alongside someone going through the symptoms . So i think the first first thing is around education. So really understanding what it is, what the symptoms can be, what the experience can be like. And the second piece of it is around the allyship piece. So often in a working environment, there is little that people can do to support you. If youve got to come into the office, youve got to come into the office. Sometimes its about the understanding that that could be a really challenging experience for somebody. So there are practical aspects to it. There are things that employers can do to support women reasonable adjustments, but often its just about being heard, being understood. But helen, you know, lets be frank, because this is a subject up until now, its always been seen as very sensitive right now involving ageism and sexism. And some will say its an absolute minefield for an employer. So then what would your, i guess, what would your advice be on how to deal with that . So i think it comes back to, you know, having some sort of training, make sure there is a common understanding right across the organisation. And then out of that, when youve done the education, created the common understanding you need to create a safe space to talk. Because im also just wondering, you know, and ive learned since doing this show that, you know, some women can go through menopause with nothing, no symptoms, and then they could be the ones are going, well, whats all the fuss about . And 25 of women have absolutely no symptoms at all. 50 have some symptoms, but 25 have really debilitating symptoms. So 75 experience it in some way. 25 dont really. But there are still the other things happening. So the reduction in oestrogen, whether you experienced symptoms or not. And helen, when it comes to the resistance of talking of the menopause, where is that resistance coming . Does it come from men or women . Interesting question. Could be a controversial answer because in some parts, probably a couple of years ago, there was some resistance from women because it was perceived as being an ageing putting an age on you, simplifying somebody� s career because they were saying, you know, arguably this is the age that im at. But that was tied into the thought process around, oh, losing my confidence, my career� s over. Whereas actually were now talking about post menopause and how that can be the best 15 year years of your career if youre with the right employer. But men can be some of the best allies, without a doubt. They really can be very supportive. And theyjust want to know more so they can be better allies. But they also want to learn in a safe space because theyre worried about saying the wrong thing. And helen, let me end on this. Its a conversation thats finally been spoken about, but i am kind of wondering, where do you think the conversation, the discussion will be in, lets say, five years� time . My hope is in five years� time that were not actually sitting having these doing a conversation because it is literally part and parcel of a Womans Health throughout her career. So i hope that i can almost put myself out of a role by having these conversations now so that we no longer have to have them in the future. And the workplace is a better place regardless of the job that youre doing forfor women, although all over the uk and ireland. Helen tomlinson, A Real Pleasure. Thank you so much. Good luck with everything and id love to talk to you again soon. So, so far in the show, weve looked at how Menopause Symptoms are impacting on Womens Health and in the workplace. But, you know, the Global Market for products related to the menopause and its symptoms is estimated to stand at almost 17 billion. And that number is growing every year. So my next guest, shes a pioneer at researching and working with brands to sell products to women experiencing symptoms. Sam simister, thank you so much forjoining me. And lets start with this, sam, because your Company Works with big uk brands like boots, the Pharmaceutical Giant Plus marks and spencer. What kind of advice are you giving companies about reaching menopause age women . Thats a great question, aaron. Thank you. So, gen m, the Menopause Partner of brands, exists to help brands understand this audience better and to support them, to empower them, to inspire them to better support through improved products, services, better education, awareness, etc. I think the other important thing to say is that everything that we do is underpinned by research. And the first report we commissioned, we called it the Invisibility Report back in 2020. And it was this data, aaron, that we believe really compelled and provided the catalyst for these businesses to come on board. A1 saying they felt lonely, invisible and dispensable, 88 saying they wanted absolutely more support from brands, and 90 saying theyjust felt overlooked by brands and society as a whole. Youve come up with an m sign for products to, well, to indicate if a product can help with a menopause symptom. What kind of products are we talking about here . So we launched in february the tech we call it the m tic, but it is effectively the worlds first menopause friendly symbol to signpost products that can support, ease or relieve one or more of the 48 symptoms or signs. And when you hit perimenopause, Everything Changes your skin changes, your hair changes, your nails change. So it can be anything from the shampoo that you buy to the face creams that you use through the Mascara Orfoundation that you that you choose to buy, the clothing that you need to wear to keep cool because you are more likely to be hotter. The bedding that you choose to ensure that you can have a better nights sleep to keep you cool. The list is so long it basically covers every sector because Everything Changes. Its called the change for a reason. Is it catching on, sam . Very much so. We launched it in end of february, at the end of february. So its really early days. But i am very encouraged to tell you that within a very short space of time weve got over a0 brands now deploying the m tic and by october we will have very close to 600 product skus deploying the tic also. So we go through the process, we ensure that integrity is intact, but these brands in the collective are really embracing it because they have the insight and they are trusting in that data. Your report found women saying that they dealt with things like crippling anxiety. Im wondering, sam, are companies in this space taking advantage of people who are who are suffering and then selling things to them, which may not be that useful, like Food Supplements and creams and even lipsticks . I think the first thing to say on that is that everybody� s menopause is going to be different. It is about choice and control. So it is incredibly hard to say whether one product works for you or whether it wont. You really do need that choice and control. And i come back to the importance around integrity. That is why with our symbol, it has governance and integrity associated with it, so that products that do deploy the m tic have followed a process and they have the data that then supports that they are worthy of carrying that m tic. I think like all situations, a degree of regulation and integrity is required. But sam, i have to say this and youll know it. Some doctors will say that women dealing with Menopause Treatment are best served getting medical advice rather than, you know, skin creams or lipsticks or Food Supplements. The questions out there and its got to be asked, do you think some companies are trading on the very insecurities that some women become prone to as they go through the menopause . Yeah, i think thats a very, very good point you raise. Ill come back to our research because we know from the data that we have that the majority of women. Yes, if they can seek medical support, they absolutely do. And they should, we definitely encourage that, of course. But where they cant and there are some challenges at the moment with access to medical support, women we know are self diagnosing. There is an increase in the use of apps, there is an increase in the thirst for information over the internet. And thats why brands have a responsibility, in our view, to do more, to educate and to provide that support. Sam, are Companies Looking at expanding into this area. I really would hope that they are, because if they dont, they are going to miss out. This is a very discerning population. The midlife woman, according to forbes, were super consumers. We control the majority of the Household Spend and we have money to spend. We also one of the lovely things about getting a bit older, we also know what we want. We are tired of Feeling Underserved and overlooked. So those of us that are engaged with this topic will seek out those brands that are listening to us, that are representing us authentically with their marketing. And they are seeing us and they are providing the solutions with great signposting that we are looking for. Sam simister, thank you so much. A real pleasure having you on the show. Thanks for your time and well talk to you soon. Thank you so much for having me. One company which has invested millions into the Menopause Market is the uk based health shop chain Holland And Barrett. Its trained thousands of its staff to recognise and advise customers on Menopause Symptoms. So what are the lessons theyve learned . Lena chan, A Real Pleasure having you on the show. And lena, your company, Holland And Barrett have been in this space for a while now. What have you learned about helping women in this age group . I think weve seen a lot of change, especially in the last couple of years. Women being a lot more comfortable talking about menopause, even though it still is a topic thats very much shrouded in taboo. But i think id say that there are two key things that weve seen come up a lot. One, which is if we really want to be reaching menopause equity, we need to include the voice of communities. I think a lot of the Menopause Solutions now, our customers are telling us that it talks a lot about the symptoms that white women or their white counterparts might be experiencing. But we need to do a lot more in terms of how do we address some of the symptoms that potentially black women, asian and other ethnic minorities are facing. And the second one is that its really important that we recognise that menopause is a life stage and its not a disease. I think theres a lot of narrative around menopause that pins it as a disease, but really its a life stage and the more we can actually start normalising conversations of menopause, its more likely that women will come up to us and ask for support, because if they keep thinking that theyre suffering alone, then its already the first barrier to getting to getting support. And really, every menopause is very unique. Youve recently invested millions to reach women here in england who speak other languages like hindu and urdu. Lina, is this is this part of that trying to reach as many communities as possible . I think one of the key things that we that we saw, the statistics are really are really stark. One in two women felt that they werent part of the conversation in a lot of the minority groups and that percentage went up to 75 in black and Afro Caribbean communities. So can you imagine if if you dont feel like youre part of that dialogue . And thats exactly what we did, weve translated a lot of the Menopause Education Content into four different south asian languages. Were working with a leading charity called Wellbeing Of Women in a new Womens HealthCommunity Fund to fund people who we think are real Change Makers in their community. We know we cant reach everybody over the course of a couple of days or even months. But if we can empower them, we can really work as a catalyst to try to get the care that people need in the way that they need in these communities. And youve trained staff in your stores to to look for menopausal symptoms. I mean, what kind of symptoms are we talking about . So weve educated, like you said, about 4,000 of our staff, and they can talk to customers that come in. They can help you piece together because the average is that every women that is going through perimenopause and menopause will display about 6 to 7 symptoms. And its piecing all of that together and signposting them to say, actually, perhaps you are in perimenopausal menopause and these are some of the resources that you have there. Lena, i have to ask you this. The range of products that you stock is quite extensive and some of it very expensive. For example, Collagen Supplements which can go for around £50 or 60 usd for a 1k day treatment. Is that what women need . I mean, isnt hormone replacement, you know, hrt, isnt that going to be more effective . I think women need a holistic approach to their health, so its not a one pill fix all. I think its really kind of trying to look at everything as complementary. So theres always a role for hrt. Hrt is very important, but not every woman can take hrt or want to take hrt, especially in the early stages of menopause. Weve done actually a Research Across our customers and especially those during perimenopause. About 70 of them said that they didnt want to take hrt, yet they wanted to look at lifestyle nutrition. So, lena, do your staff tell customers to to go to a doctor so, lina, do your staff tell customers to to go to a doctor or to buy Food Supplements . I mean, we need to have a holistic conversation with our with our customers. So they will definitely signpost people. And we actually have in partnership with the Menopause Mandate A menopause nurses hotline. So if anybody presents themselves that we think that they should be signposted to somebody with a bit more of a medical background, they will have access for free to our menopause nurses hotline, who can then advise on seeking Specialist Support or gp support. Lina, you operate in lots of countries, notjust here in the uk. How do attitudes to the menopause differ . Part of our of this research that weve done looking at communities is a is a big example of that. I mean, some in some cultures you dont even have the word for menopause. So you can imagine if some women dont even know how to advocate for themselves or refer to that life stage, its really, really hard. While there are other cultures like some east asian cultures that really look up to that life stage, because when youve gone through menopause, youve lived a long life, youre full of knowledge. And a lot of women in those cultures have a much easier menopause transition. So a lot of cultures and countries deal with the menopause very, very differently. Lena chen, thank you so much for your time. Lina chen, thank you so much for your time. A pleasure having you and ill check in with you soon. Thank you so much, aaron, for having me on the show. Well, thats it for this week. I hope you enjoyed the show. Dont forget, you can keep up with the latest on our Global Economy on the bbc website or the smartphone app. Of course, you can also follow me on x. X me. Ill x you back. You can get me at bbc. You can get me at bbcaaron. Thanks for watching. Ill see you soon. Bye bye. Hello. It is shaping up to be yet another unsettled weekend of weather, but that doesnt mean its going to be raining all the time. Far from it. While it will be showery and quite breezy, therell be some drier spells too. In fact, parts of the south and the east are going to see the driest of the weather, furthest away from the centre of this area of low pressure. That is what will be driving the showers over the weekend. And see all the white lines, the isobars squeezing together . That shows that we are going to have some quite brisk winds, particularly around western coasts. A band of rain through the morning pushing its way northwards and eastwards across scotland, Northern England seeing some of that, maybe parts of wales. Behind that, sunny spells and showers, some of them heavy and thundery. A few showers breaking out down towards the south east corner, but actually a decent amount of dry weather to be had here. So theres confirmation of what will be a breezy, indeed quite windy day around some western coasts. Temperatures a little down on where they have been. The warmest weather in Eastern England at 2a degrees, more generally around 16 to 22. And then as we head through saturday evening, well continue to see some showers, particularly across the north and the west of the uk. Some areas of cloud, some clear spells too, and another relatively warm night, 12 to 15 degrees. So for sunday, our area of low pressure just continues to swirl, centred close to the north west of scotland. So that will be driving the showers. This frontal system here to the south west, thatll be running in later in the day. So some spells of sunshine to be had, but also some showers, maybe some longer spells of rain at times for Northern Ireland and western parts of scotland. And then late in the day, some cloud and perhaps some rain into the far south west of england, maybe the far south west of wales. Temperatures between 18 and 23 degrees. Breezy again, perhaps not quite as windy as on saturday. Now, through the coming week, low pressure will be with us initially, but then it looks like High Pressure will build for a time. And, actually, as that high shifts eastwards, it may be that we start to pick up a feed of slightly warmer air from the near continent. The big question mark is about how quickly this area of low pressure then swirls in from the west to turn things unsettled once again. But signs are that as we head through the coming week, there will at least be some drier and warmer weather on the way for many of us. Live from washington, this is bbc news. The smoking remains of a once vibrant landscape the scope of the Hawaii Wildfire Destruction becomes more clear. The Usjustice Department names a Special Prosecutor in the hunter biden inquiry. Plus, a well known mountaineer denies accusations that her team climbed over an injured guide during a bid to break a world record. Hello, im caitriona perry. Youre very welcome. The death toll from devastating hawaii wildfires which tore through the island of maui now stands at 59. But there are warnings that number will rise. Were seeing terrifying videos and images from the Historic Town of lahaina. This video posted to social media shows people struggling in rough waters, after theyjumped into the ocean to escape the smoke, flames and embers. This image from the Us Coast Guard shows the town burning. During the height of the emergency, the agency rescued 17 people from the water and a0 people from the shore. As the hours go on, were getting a better look at the scale of the damage