Transcripts For BBCNEWS BBC 20240704

Of course this comes as the former president , runs in the hope of becoming the next president , courting the Republican Party nomination while facing mounting legal concerns. So lets take a look at the latest charges filed against him yesterday. This time he was accused of four counts, including conspiracy to defraud the United States, tampering with a witness and conspiracy against the rights of citizens. During a brief arraignment in the Nations Capital yesterday, mr trumps lawyer entered a plea of not guilty on his behalf. Now in the last hour, donald trump has been addressing a Summer Dinner hosted by the alabama Republican Party. Hes spoken about the various cases that have been brought against him recently. Take a listen. And then they filed them all, everyone of them, all at essentially one time, including local dbas and aeds, right in the middle of the campaign, where we are leading by so much and is not going to make any impact because every time they file an indictment, we go way up file an indictment, we go way up in polls, we need one more indictment to close out the selection, one more indictment at this election, and this election is closed out, no one has even a chance. The bbc was inside the courthouse watching the proceedings unfold. 0ur reporter Bernd Debusmann described the former president s demeanor in front of the judge. Well, he was very calm and very quiet. He did not say much he just responded very quickly to questions when they were answered. He gave his name and when he was asked his age, he said hes seven seven, in his words. But otherwise, there was no real reaction when the even with the indictment and the possible penalties were being read out, there was very little visible on his face and he spent most of the time kind of with his hands in front of him, kind of hunched over the table. He seemed, you know, to not be reacting much but listening but not reacting visibly in any way that showed any emotion. And can you describe for us the moments when the former president entered his plea . Well, he stood up and got to the front of the room and he kind of mouthed the words not guilty as his lawyer entered the plea on his behalf but again, there wasnt much reaction and, you know, he didnt seem at all worried or irritated in any way just kind of very direct. I think hed been you know, must� ve prepared for this moment well ahead of time. You could tell it was very procedural for him as well. Following mr trumps historic third indictment and arriagnment, we spoke with three members of the House January 6th Committee which investigated the events leading up to the attack on the us capitol. I spoke with democratic congresswoman zoe lofgren of california and began by asking for her reaction to the developments. Its always a shock when you see a former president arrested and charged with four felonies. 0n the other hand, we knew this date was coming from the indictment and, of course, as a member of the january Six Committee, weve known for some time that he engaged in a pattern of conduct that was criminal and designed to overthrow the constitution and the election in order to keep power, so it was a mix of sadness, determination and, i guess, in a sense, gratification that in america, no person is above the law. Well, special Counseljack Smith has notes from former president mike pence which were taken in real time. Now, of course, we know that he never actually sat down with the january Six Committee but what kind of information do you think Thatjack Smith is now in possession of because of those notes . Well, i would think substantial information. For example, one of the things he recited in the indictment was the ex president trying to talk pence into throwing the votes out. He said, youre too honest. That tells me a lot. Number one, that trump was dishonest and was failing in getting his Vice President to join him in that dishonesty. You know, there was a lot of interaction between the then president and his Vice President , where the then president was trying to bully the Vice President into violating his Oath Of Office and violating the electoral count act and i think the verbatim or word for word discussions will be important evidence for this trial. Well, Donald Trumps legal team will say that this is about his First Amendment rights. Whats your reaction to that . Well, i dont clearly, its not. As the indictment itself recited, you can say whatever you want, even if its lies. But when that turns into action, then you run into criminal conduct. Its like saying you can say whatever you want, so if you walk into a bank and say, ive got a gun, give me all your money, thats protected by the First Amendment. I think not. What do you think, ultimately, this means for the United States in the years to come . Well, i dont have a crystal ball but i do think it is a there are some fundamentals here. Fundamentals since the first president George Washington is that when the election is taken, the incumbent abides by the results. George washington left after two terms. I remember reading at the Library Of Congress a letter that president lincoln had written to his cabinet when he believed he was going to lose the election in the middle of the civil war and his words were, no matter how dire we think this will be, we will live with the will of the voters. Mr trump is the first ever in American History to try and hold onto power contrary to the electorate. We cantjust give that a pass. That cannot be allowed or, really, the american experiment with democracy is doomed. And i think to the extent that he has committed crimes and, clearly, i think he has our American System Ofjustice sees everyone the same. No one is exempt from complying with the law, including the most elevated people in our society, even the president of the United States, so i hope As Time Goes By thatjustice will be served and the American Public will come to accept that that is the best that american governance has to offer. Democratic congresswoman zoe lofgren, representative from california, thank you so much for being with us. Just after mr trumps court appearance, my colleague Sumi Somaskanda also spoke with another former member of the jan 6th committee, congressman jamie raskin of maryland. Congressman, thank you so much forjoining us. Great to have you on bbc news. First of all, the former president arranged today. Your thoughts on what you witnessed . Well, i think its a tremendous vindication of the Rule Of Law In American Democracy that we are least starting off with the principle that nobody is above the law, that people cant get away with crimes and then use theirfame or their celebrity or their former Public Office in order to nullify prosecution. Donald trump famously said that he could shoot someone on fifth avenue and it would make no difference to his supporters. Thats proven to be a fairly accurate prophecy about his supporters but its not true of the american system of justice. You cant get away with that just because you think that you exercise some kind of dictatory or autocratic spell over the masses. Congressman, i want to ask you about the indictment because it claims donald trump not only lied about losing the election but he knew he did and that he launched, together with his lawyers, a conspiracy to overturn the election results. So, after looking at this indictment, are you convinced that the president did, indeed, know that he lost the election . Well, i was convinced of that through the january 6 select Committee Investigation when a number of witnesses told us things like donald trump saying, can you believe i lost to this guy . And expressing frustration and exasperation about what had happened and, you know, he was told by the attorney general of the United States, who was as loyal a sycophant as he ever had, william barr, that he had lost the election and that the claims that he was swallowing and repeating were bs im cleaning that up for television. He was told by white House Counsel there was nothing there, members of his family i mean, he clearly had every reason to understand that he had lost the election and yet, he was still looking for a way to torture out some sort of preservation of his power, even againstjoe biden� s victory of more than 7 million votes in the election 306 232 in the Electoral College, which was a margin that trump had declared an absolute landslide when he won by the exact same numbers against Hillary Clinton back in 2016. So, he was perfectly well aware. Of course, even if he believed that he had won the election and, remember, he lost 60 federal and state court cases rejecting every claim of electoral corruption and fraud but even if he believed that, it still would not have justified his trying to overthrow the legitimate electoral process and interfere with a federal proceeding and deprive us of a Fair Election within the meaning of the law. Congressman, the former Vice President did provide testimony to jack smiths office obviously, your committee was not able to speak with him but do you think he will be a key witness if this does go to trial . Well, it appears so. I mean, there were certain things that i noticed in the indictment that were not part of the january six report, such as donald trump saying to pence, youre just too honest. Thats in a conversation between both of them, so that must� ve come from mike pence or contemporaneous notes that he took. So, there are certain things that only solidify our understanding that donald trump was trying to coerce mike pence into stepping outside of his constitutional role, presiding in ministerial fashion over the joint Session Of Congress to engage in the peaceful transfer of power and to simply appoint donald trump president , declaring him president and nullify the Electoral College votes that had been sent in from millions of people in arizona, pennsylvania, georgia, wisconsin and so on. They basically wanted pence to vaporise the election and when he wouldnt do it, they turned the wrath of the insurrectionary rioters against him, and we heard them chanting, hang mike pence. Where did they get the idea, as trump supporters, to be attacking Donald Trumps own Vice President . How do you think the rest of the world is watching today, seeing the former president indicted now for the third time . Well, i dont know youd be a betterjudge of that than me. I mean, i hope that people will see it as a vindication of the american system of justice, that we dont say that because someone once held a Public Office as president or Vice President or a member of congress or governor that they can commit any crime that they want. People understand how absurd that is if youre talking about a murder or a rape. Its no less absurd when youre talking about trying to overthrow an election or trying to interfere with a federal proceeding or trying to defraud the American People. Are those things are all crimes and you dont get any sort of exception to itjust because you once held Public Office. As we mentioned, the former president is facing a raft of other criminal charges. Lets break them down. Donald trump is now the focus of four major investigations related to his business and Political Activities at both the federal and state level. So far, mr trump has been indicted in three of those cases, including the federal governments case investigating efforts to overturn the 2020 election and the january 6th attack on the capitol. He has also been indicted and trial dates have been set in the federal case investigating his handling of classified material. As well as in the manhattan criminal case related to trumps Hush Money Payments made to Former Adult Film Actress Stormy Daniels during the 2016 president ial campaign. And an investigation in georgia continues into attempts to reverse trumps loss in 2020, which could lead to a further indictment. At this point, mr trump faces 78 state and federal counts in the three cases in which he has been charged. We spoke with rodney davis, former republican congressman from the state of illinois about whats next for donald trump, in the face of those mounting legal challenges. In the end, the lawyers, the strategists, Donald Trumps family can sit back and devise what they think is the best step by step strategy to defend donald trump from all of these allegations, and there is only one person thats going to make that decision on how to proceed, and thats donald trump, and my interactions with President Trump were very positive over the time that i served with him, but he is in my opinion the most undisciplined politician that i have ever had a chance to work with, so he is going to lash out at everyone, thats going to be his strategy. What he thinks should be said is going to be said on truth social or other social media outlets. He is going to say tweeted this, truth of this, and is going to come out on the whole world will read it and report on it, thats why you will not see a codified strategy from anyone in this orbit. Its going to be hit or miss based upon what he sees being reported in the media every day about him and his case, and that is very dangerous for him in the criminal case, but we will see what happens. Yesterday, we had a Panel Discussion on the developments and Sumi Somaskanda asked if the indictments helped paint mr trump as a victim. We then saw this exchange between former congresswoman stephanie murphy, and the former Communications Director in Donald Trumps transition team, bryan la nza. The sad thing about this is that these indictments have opened up our legal system to a tax, and thatjust undermines our institutions are. As it is the American People have very little faith in their institutions, but then having faith in our institutions, whether that is voting or Law Enforcement or congress, its core to a strong democracy, and so all of this partisan bickering hurts us as a nation, and i think our enemies abroad see that as an opportunity, and its just really an unfortunate situation. Just a follow up on that, what do you mean, do you think that our enemies abroad see that as an opportunity . Well, there are those who think that their system of government, autocracy, socialism, communism, autocratic systems are the ones that are the best, that should prevail in this next, in our future, and as a democracy, when we are attacking our institutions at the very core of what a democracy is which is one vote, your vote matters, we are doing their bidding for them. As we are looking at these images of the former president s convoy . What do you think of what the congresswomen just had to say . I think nothing is more corrosive that our democracy than candidates running for Elective Office who are active members of the communist and socialist party, so the assault on our democracy is coming from within our democratic system but also coming from outside our democratic system and our enemies look at democracy and see a useful tool to help divide this country and they look at President Trump and they see a way of espousing this division and highlighting the fact that this view of democracy and capitalism is not necessarily what they think is the best path forward but what they have not painted a picture of is the alternative of authoritarianism, and thats a debate that this country needs to have in respect to the far left base of the Democratic Party who are in office today, and that does more to hurt our democracy, those people challenging our system, disrupting the roots of our democracy to push their agenda. President trump can be accused of weakening this to their own actions but its a dual effort, its both sides. The very picture of authoritarianism is to refuse to leave office and have a peaceful transfer of power and that is what is at the core of this indictment, that the former president violated the fundamental obligation of the occupant of the oval office and indeed any american that puts country before party or person and to proceed and participate in a peaceful transfer of power, so everyone to talk about authoritarianism, thats exactly the point. So this is what the former president s next few weeks looks like. Mr trump is still hitting the Campaign Trail despite his legal troubles. He spoke to a packed house of more than two thousand people in alabama today. He will not be attending his superseding arraignment in the classified documents case next week after waiving his right to be present. And hes still waiting to hear back from the Fulton County District Attorney in georgia where he could be handed another indictment. That case includes charges of voter and election fraud. And finally, On August 28th the ex president is due back in court for a case hearing in washington. The 28 august date is just five days after he is expected tojoin his republican rivals on the debate stage for the first time. And if we take a look at political polling, the former president still leads the 2024 republican president ial primary field. According to the latest New York Times sienna poll, 54 of republican primary voters back trump, followed by i7 who support Florida Governor ron desantis and former Vice President mike pence, and former Ambassador Nikki Haley are both tied at 3 each. 71 of Republican Voters believe the former president has not committed any serious federal crimes. And 56 say mr trump did not do anything wrong in his handling of classified materials. Earlier, i spoke with bob costa, cbs news Chief Election and Campaign Correspondent about the political implications of trumps latest indictment and whether the trial could take place before the 2024 election. Special Counseljack Smith has made it clear. The trial will likely take place next year but delays of Different Reasons could happen, and new information could come too light. Mark meadows, the former trump chief of staff is not mentioned in any explicit way in the indictment but he is seen to be a key witness in this investigation. We may see more information emerge about people who are cooperating with the government as they make this case and as you mentioned the 2024 president ial campaign, and a new intriguing element is the former Vice President mike pence, is now emerging as a crucial witness in this investigation while also running against rob for the republican nomination and today cbs news and spoke with mark shaw, mike pence� s long time adviser at former chief of staff and he says he has turned over contemporaneous notes to the Special Counsel and took these notes during his time as Vice President , giving the Special Counsel a vivid window into what is happening behind the scenes. Before and after 6january. How do you think donald trump will handle all of this including what will likely be a wide ranging large legal timetable while also heading into the primary is . He believes based on conversations with his friends and allies that the Republican Voters across the country will stick with him despite all of the legal challenges he is facing. Now, many of his rivals who were at the upcoming president ial debate will take about face to face about his likeability as all of this out of the court, but trump, behind the scenes today on his plane in the motorcade going over to the courthouse was calm and inside the courtroom when he was asked for his name he said donald trump, Donaldj Trump and they asked what is your age and said 7 7, a kind of a throwaway line, didnt even say he was 77 years old, he said 7 7, and for those who know him well, that is trumps very subtle way of signalling that he is not taking this too seriously and that his confidence is buoyed by the polling which shows him still the front runner. You think there is any said that that could peel away . If you take a look at the legal fees he has racked up, much of that is coming from his Campaign Part of. Is that sustainable . Is that legal . It may be raising questions about the legality, the Political Action Committee Said they are allowed to spend money on legal fees but they have spent more than 40 million on legal fees, and at this point Trumps Campaign and his contenders believe that Florida Governor rod desantis, former Vice President mike pence and a whole other array of rivals running for the nomination are not serious competition, at least at this point. What some trump donors are watching for behind the scenes is whether someone else stops in the race, some donors are being encouraged to get in. He is a favourite of the wall street community, and the business leaders, and the georgia governor brian kemp, who stood up to troubles in the post election period of 2020, he is Hearing Whispers from allies and donors but maybe what he should jump into the race. Usually a late entry into a president ial race is very complicated because you have to have the logistics and all the machinations come together quickly but we are in Uncertain Times and its certainly something that remains on the radar for those at the top of the Republican Party. What comes next for donald trump . He is supposed to be of the Campaign Trail soon, where does he go from here . He will continue to travel to iowa where he will continue to travel to that state, he will continue to travel to South Carolina and he has to make a decision in late august, does he go to milwaukee wisconsin to appear at the republican president ial debate . Some of his rivals like the former governor Chris Christie have been beating him to come, saying if he doesnt chose weakness, and some of trumps allies tell me that he might show up although he says he wont. He had dinner the other day with fox News Executives who are hosting the debate, they are trying to get him to come in part because they would like to see the front runner there and they also believed he could bring an audience along. Fascinating and reporting that from robert koster, the Campaign Correspondent by cbs news. Before we go, lets recap new comments from donald trump. Speaking to a crowd a short time ago he addresses the indictments made against him. Saying every time they file an indictment, we go way up in the polls. Stay with us here on bbc news. Hello there. Weather across the uk has certainly been testing our patience of late. We are heading for the fourth consecutive weekend where an area of low pressure will dominate the weather story, bringing us some wet and windy weather. But every cloud has a silver lining. And next weekend, i can offer you something a little more promising, settled and summer like. But at the moment, its all about storm anthony, which is moving its way across Northern Ireland, bringing a heavy spell of rain during the early hours of saturday morning. And as that rain continues to drive its way steadily eastwards, the winds will strengthen as well. So were widely likely to see 20 to 40 millimetres, maybe more for Northern Ireland for a time. And then the winds gusting 50 to 65 miles an hour along west facing coasts of wales and south west england. Very unusual, really, for this time of year. The rain drives its way quickly eastwards, and then into the afternoon, circulating around that low, we will see a rash of sharp, possibly thundery downpours. Slowly improving into Northern Ireland and lighter winds and fewer showers likely for scotland. But the temperatures will be disappointing right across the country, a maximum of just 14 to 18 celsius by the middle part of the afternoon. The low pressure will gradually move away and the winds will die down. So as we push into sunday, it might be a pleasant start, with some Early Morning sunshine, particularly in eastern areas, lighter winds. And as we go through the day, we will see a scattering of showers developing out to the west, and some of these will gradually move further inland. But with a little more sunshine coming through, it will be a degree or so warmer. Top temperatures of 20 degrees, 68 fahrenheit. Not that much change monday into tuesday. Showers or longer spells of rains likely, particularly on tuesday. Another spell of wet weather to come. But we can offer you a glimpse of something more optimistic by the middle part of next week. An area of High Pressure is likely to build, and we havent seen this for quite some time. So from wednesday onwards, we are likely to see some drier, settled and more summer like weather. Theres still an uncertainty how long its likely to last, but for next week, showers or longer spells of rain to begin with. But as the High Pressure builds, certainly things will settle down and warm up for many. Voiceover this is bbc news. Well have the headlines and all the main news stories for you at the top of the hour, straight after this programme. Whoopi goldberg is one of the very few people to have won all four of americas big entertainment awards. Whoopi goldberg . Emmy, grammy, 0scarand tony, for her work in film, theatre and television. Lovely to meet you. Thank you. Please take a seat. Brought up by a single mother in a new york housing project, she first made her name with a solo comedy show onstage before turning to dramatic acting roles, starting with her movie debut in the color purple. Until you do right by me, everything you think about is going to crumble. Since then, shes made around 100 films, including ghost and sister act. Shes hosted the Academy Awards several times and has forged a career as an outspoken and Controversial Television personality. The craziness of whats going on in this country at the moment. Lets mic you up. In this episode of this cultural life, the radio 4 programme, she reveals her formative influences and experiences. Just come on under the shirt. Yeah, you sure . Babe. Ive been doing this a long time. If youre an old lady, you dont mind. Youre like, thank you