now on bbc news... hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk, i'm stephen sackur. the legacy of conflict left behind after the collapse of yugoslavia isn't easily overcome. they know that in kosovo, which declared independent statehood a dozen years ago, but has yet to make a lasting peace with neighbouring serbia. and right now, kosovo is experiencing a major political shift. my guest, the country's acting president, vjosa osmani, is a young, post—war politician challenging the old guard of the kosovar independence struggle. she promises clean government, a fresh start, but can she deliver? president vjosa osmani in pristina, kosovo, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much for this opportunity. a pleasure to be talking to you. it is a pleasure to have you on the show. i've just described you as a member of a new generation of kosovan politicians. in what way, would you say, are you different from the old guard? in plenty of ways, in fact, and although i've been part of politics for quite some time, i started really young, when i was only 17, so it's been more than 20 years, i was never part of the executive, so never had any executive powers on the decisions that were made in the country. but i think it is, first of all, because of the political platform on which we jointly ran together with the incoming prime minister, mr kurti, which is based on our anti—corruption platform, as well as because our clean, clear vision for the country, which aims at showing our country's full potential, which is based on the potential that our youth represents. there are many other reasons, but it's practically based also on the consistency that we've shown in politics for the past two decades, which have convinced the people of kosovo to give us the overwhelming support that they did. so these past elections that were held on february 14th, truly represent a turning point in our history. it will, it was, in fact, the very first time that a political platform, a political option, won 50%, which was unheard of, but also unexpected for plenty of people in our political and constitutional system. but at the same time, it shows that a new political generation, not in terms of age, but in terms of mind—set, will finally give an opportunity for the people of kosovo to find their perspective within our country and not to look at ways at how to get out of here. we truly believe that our country does have this potential, especially because we have the youngest population in europe and we are absolutely determined to offer this perspective by, first of all, fighting crime and corruption, which has plagued our country for way too long. interesting. you put the focus on the young population. it seems to me, the young in kosovo, and you referred to the fact that many of them go abroad trying to find work, the young in kosovo for a long time have been angry and alienated. why do you believe that the promise, the dream of independence, which was of course declared back in 2008, why has it turned so sour for so many in your country? well, independence was notjust a dream. it's the current reality. and kosovo is here to stay. we will remain sovereign and independent. but obviously the expectations of the people in terms ofjobs and justice were much higher than what was delivered. so their expectations were failed in many aspects. as i said, one of the main problems in our country was crime and corruption, which we aim to stop through concrete action in the future government. but at the same time, i believe that it's been about the example that is set by the leadership of this country. so one, we will be leading by example to show, as we've shown in the past 20 years, that we are incorruptible. but at the same time, by showing that we have absolutely no compromise with those that get corrupted. in this way, we will be bringing meritocracy first to the institutions of kosovo. right, but... and secondly, by focusing on two main areas, which is education and jobs for the youth, based on meritocracy. but, madam president, why would young kosovans believe you? because, let's face it, you, as you say, despite your youth, you've been around a long time. i think i'm right in saying you were chief of staff to the president more than ten years ago. so you're an insider. you're not actually an outsider. you have made compromises throughout your career. but only have made compromises that were in the interests of the country and the interests of the people, never the opposite. and the people of kosovo know that, which is why they have overwhelmingly put their trust on myself and mr kurti in ourjoint list. so as i clearly pointed out, i've never had any executive role in the decision—making in the past two decades. when i was around, i was mostly in an advising role and secondly, in the five mandates that i won consecutively in the parliament, i've been in opposition to the actions that were not in the interests of the people. so, yes, being in politics doesn't necessarily mean that you had a role on the decisions that were made and were not in the interest of the people. ah. it has actually prepared me well for the challenges that lie ahead. because i was around when the preparations for the declaration, declaration of independence were made at that time as chief of staff to the president, and that was an excellent, notjust an excellent decision, it was the clear will of the people of kosovo. right. i was around when we were fighting for recognitions and memberships into international organisations. we were successful in that. and these were decisions in the interest of the people of kosovo. but none of this, if i may say so... that doesn't mean that i should close my eyes in front of decisions that were wrong, and which we aim to right in the next couple of years. right. and now you're presenting this as a very clear choice between the old guard who were corrupt and the new generation, such as yourself, who are clean, absolutely clean. i get the proposition you're putting forward... i don't, i don't, i don't... ..isn�*t it much more complicated than that, in the sense that the people you are now implying were deeply corrupt are the people who many kosovans for years regarded as the heroes of, quote unquote, the liberation struggle? what you appear to be saying now, when you talk about endemic corruption and state capture, you appear to be saying that all of those people for so long regarded as heroes, were actually crooks. no, that's not the kind of language that i used. in fact, i don't speak in terms of absolutism. quite the opposite. i think every politician in kosovo has their right decisions or wrong decisions throughout their career. what i'm trying to say is that there were plenty of wrong decisions in the past. i did not use the term crooks, but there were quite a lot of wrong decisions that took the country in the wrong path and which made the youth of kosovo lose hope in a perspective for the country. so for that reason, the country needed a fresh start, which we are offering. obviously, the term state capture has not been used by us in kosovo for the first time. it was used by the european union in their enlargement strategy. and obviously, if we want to fix the problems in this country, we need to state them, we need to recognise them, and then we need to deal clearly with fighting crime and corruption in this country. but this has nothing to do with what plenty of these people did during the war. yes, like most of the people of kosovo, the people of kosovo participated in the war to protect ourselves from the serbian oppression. so we were protecting our homes. we were protecting our houses, were protecting our families. we were protecting our country and our right to freedom and independence because it was fundamentally a fight for freedom and independence. what i am saying about the post—war period, especially after 2008 when kosovo declared independence, has nothing to do with the contribution that many of these leaders gave to liberate kosovo. 0k, well... i would absolutely not link the two or not confuse the two... that... i'm only talking about certain people as politicians, post independence. well, i find, i find your clear distinction between the activities of senior people in your country during the war and then their activities after the war. the clear distinction you make, i understand it and it's interesting. but let me then pursue what some of them did during the war. as you know much better than me, your predecessor as president, hashim thaci, is now in the hague facing very serious charges of war crimes, along with a number of other seniorfigures from the so—called kla, the kosovo liberation army. do you support that process and do you want to see justice done in that case in the hague, not in kosovo, but in the hague? justice will not be done unless serbia delivers justice for the serb criminals that committed crimes, atrocities, war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide against the people of kosovo. and this is a truth that no—one can deny because it happened in front of the eyes of all of the world. the entire world saw the crimes and the wars that were waged by serbia. so justice will be done only when serbia repents, asks for forgiveness and makes sure that those who committed those crimes actually are in front ofjustice. let me mention that serbia is today led by one of the former ministers of milosevic, and unfortunately, they are still in a state of denial. kosovo is doing the opposite. kosovo has decided through a constitutional amendment and an overwhelming majority in its parliament to establish the specialist chambers with headquarters at the hague. precisely because we have nothing to hide, precisely because we believe in justice and precisely because we want justice for all the victims. right, let's... and we are not afraid of the truth. let's stick with... i'm neither a judge... i'm neither a judge nor a prosecutor. no. and i cannot determine what will be the final outcome... of course. ..of any trial anywhere in the world. but what i can say is that kosovo has shown its great responsibility towards the international community. but first of all, in front of its people, by showing that we are ready to deliver justice if crimes have been committed. hang on. but there can be no moral equivalency between what serbia did through a state sponsored apparatus, and notjust in kosovo, but also in bosnia, croatia and elsewhere, and what certain individuals might have done after the war. madam president, let serbs speak for themselves. and we do have serbian representatives on this programme, and we try to hold them to account, just as now we've got you on the programme. and we want to discuss with you accountability in kosovo. you are president of kosovo. it's in all likelihood going to be confirmed that you're going to have a five—year term in the next few weeks. so the question for you is simple. if hashim thaci is found guilty of these very serious crimes, would you support him being locked up for a very long time? first of all, i have to speak for the crimes that were committed by serbia, because they were committed against the people... that's not the question i just asked you. i'll answer. i'll get to that. but in order to understand my answer, i need to speak about what actually happened in kosovo. i'm speaking about the families of the victims. i speak on their behalf, on behalf of all the families of the victims. and that's why it's not just my political duty, but also my moral duty to ask forjustice. if we, as the republic of kosovo, have shown our willingness to establish the specialist chambers, if the political leaders of kosovo who are now at the hague have shown their willingness to answer to justice no matter what, then, of course, we have not just the right but also the responsibility — and notjust us, as kosovars — but we expect also the rest of the world to fight forjustice, to call for justice, because the obligation to speak up forjustice for the victims of genocide is an obligation for all, notjust ours. it's an obligation in the united states. in the united kingdom. it's an obligation in the european union. to speak up for the families of all of those victims. and as i said, i cannot talk hypothetically about what the final decision will be... of course you can't. and we know that mr thaci denies the charges, but they are very serious charges. of course. and it's a simple question. if he's found guilty, would you support him being locked up for a very long time? or would you, as president, seek to pardon him? as you know, international law does not allow for pardoning for the kind of crimes that you're talking about. but the answer is very simple. the kosovo parliament has answered this a long time ago, back in 2014 and 2015, when we acknowledged the jurisdiction of the specialist chambers. we didn't say we're going to accept part of it, but all of it, because we believe in international justice. but also, we believe in the truth. and for us, there's only one simple truth, because it happened in front of your eyes as well. and that was that serbia has committed war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide. the european union... we were the victims of those crimes. the european union says quite clearly that for kosovo to be on a path to integration with the eu in the long—term, there has to be notjust continued dialogue, but ultimately there has to be peace between kosovo and serbia. now, your ally, the prime minister, albin kurti, has said that continuing the dialogue and seeking peace — long—term peace with serbia — isn't anything like one of his top priorities. he's made it sound like, frankly, he's not interested in continuing the dialogue with serbia. do you think that's a mistake? that's. .. he never said that he's not interested to continue the dialogue with serbia. but the people of kosovo trusted us on a platform that is based onjobs and justice. and these are going to be the top two priorities for both of us and for the people that will be working with us, and the majority that we have in the parliament. that does not mean in any way that we will not be focusing on the dialogue as well, as one of the priorities. and of course, as president of the country, as leader of foreign policy, i will make sure that in this process we are notjust present, but at the same time we represent kosovo�*s interest in the best way possible. kosovo has extended its hand of cooperation to serbia, despite of the fact that they have never asked for forgiveness for the crimes that they've committed. but as i said at the beginning, not that we are only interested for peace. we have worked for peace. we have earned peace in this part of the world by paying a very high price for that peace and for our freedom. butjustice, like anywhere in the world, is a precondition for peace. so when we sit down on that table, we will be saying the things that i'm saying right now when answering to your questions — that we ask for justice for all of the victims, that we ask for the whereabouts of the missing persons. there are almost 1,700 people that are unaccounted for, and there are still lots of mass graves in serbia that need to be opened. and the leadership of serbia needs to be ready to talk to us and answer. where are our loved ones? that's the answer that we need in that negotiation table. let me ask you, if i may, madam president, a personal question. sure. i know from your own personal history that you and your family were caught up in the war in �*98, �*99. i believe i'm right in saying that yourfamily came face—to—face with serb troops — well—armed serb troops — who forced you from the house where you were seeking shelter and forced you to flee for your lives? does that personal history make it very difficult for you to contemplate a lasting peace with serbia? in fact, it only increases the responsibility for myself to make sure that it never happens to anyone again — no matter the ethnicity of the people of kosovo. they are all citizens that i represent. and i want to make sure that the contribution that i leave behind, that the legacy that we leave behind is one of everlasting peace. and it has to be, of course, through a concrete and sincere engagement of all. but this, you know... it takes two to tango. we need to make sure that serbia is also engaged by making sure that they ask for forgiveness and they give us information about the whereabouts of the missing persons. this is how, throughjustice, through delivered justice, we can move forward. we're not asking for revenge. ijust wonder... because despite of very difficult experiences, experiences that every one of us had to go through... because there's no single person, there's no single family in kosovo that has not gone through hell during the war, and even before the war. 1989, 1999 was an apartheid—like regime in kosovo. i was not allowed to go to school, and neither were other albanian students. right. and for that reason, it only has strengthened the determination in us to fight for everlasting peace and to contribute for this peace, notjust in our region but also beyond, to give this great example of cooperation among nations. so that what we went through never happens to anyone again. right. as you say, in yourjob as president, you are sort of supervising and overseeing kosovo�*s foreign policy. and you have said that relationships with friends and allies in the eu and the united states are crucial, in your view, to establishing kosovo as a stable, prosperous nation in europe. absolutely. how disappointed are you that all of these years after your declaration of independence in 2008, five eu member states still refuse to recognise your independent statehood? cyprus, greece, romania, slovakia, spain — they simply don't recognise you as a sovereign nation. and the eu as a whole has not delivered on promises, for example, to establish a system to allow kosovans easy travel in and out of the european union. how disappointed are you with the eu? there's quite a great deal of frustration about the lack of visa liberalisation for kosovo because the eu has not delivered yet on that promise, despite of the fact that we have notjust fulfilled all the criteria, but we have also fulfilled double the amount of criteria compared to any other country in the region. but we should not be caught up among disappointment, but we should be working hard to convince those countries that still might have doubts as to whether the criteria have been fully fulfilled, despite of the fact that the european commission has consistently said that we did, and so did the european parliament. we will sit down and work with individual countries and convince them once again that actually we're a very responsible country and, in us, they will find a reliable partner when it comes to taking our obligations seriously. when it comes to the five eu non—recognisers, we will try to melt the ice that has been built between us and the countries that you've mentioned, because there's absolutely no reason for them not to recognise us. there's no similarity between the independence of kosovo and the territories with which these countries might have problems. and this has been recognised by the international court ofjustice. for that reason, it will require quite a lot of hard work, but we will not give up in our efforts to strengthen kosovo�*s statehood. so we will sit down and talk to all of these countries. and eventually, i am absolutely sure that they will recognise our right to live free and independent, at the same time be an exporter of stability in the region and beyond. final question, then, madam president, because i'm very struck with your words there about independent statehood. itjust seems odd to me that, as you approach your presidency, you're working with an ally, mr kurti, who, after his big parliamentary victory the other day, was asked about his long—term vision for kosovo. he was asked whether, in the end, he would support a referendum in your country on merging, unifying with albania. and he said that, yes, with the right constitutional changes, he would vote to unify albania and kosovo. so it seems, if you're his ally and you're his partner, that you're on a path not to long—term independent statehood but to union with albania. is that where you want to go? in fact, we have both been very clear that we are in a partnership, political partnership, which aims at strengthening the state of kosovo, the independent state of kosovo. and i have been very clear, not just in these past interviews but throughout my political career, that i feel very strong about the independent and sovereign kosovo. i strongly believe in it, and for that reason will continue to work for that. mr kurti and i have both also clearly answered questions about the current constitutional context of kosovo. and we have signed... so, if i may, madam president... sure. if there is to be, in the future, a referendum for kosovan people on whether to unify with albania, how would you vote? that's not a question that i would answer. why? because, according to our constitution, there can be no referendum on that issue. the constitution is clear. and that's a constitution that i really believe in. if that constitution were ever to be changed, although the provisions to change it are extremely difficult because they also ask for two—thirds of minority communities, only if that constitution were ever to be changed — and that might be, i'm not sure, in a couple of decades — in that political context, would i be able to answer? in the current political context, of course, and truly believing — fundamentally believing — in kosovo�*s freedom and independence, my answer is kosovo is here to stay. kosovo is forever. all right. president vjosa 0smani, we have to end there, but thank you very much forjoining me from pristina. thank you. it's been a pleasure. hello. tuesday brought us a very mild day across the uk. in fact, for wales and scotland, it was the warmest day of the year so far, and widely, we had temperatures in the mid to high teens. this is how we ended the day in north somerset. the warmeest spot was in pershore, worcestershire, where temperatures gotjust shy of 18 celsius. now, it won't be quite as mild as we look through the course of wednesday, but another largely dry settled day for many of us. there will be some spells of sunshine around on wednesday, still a few spots of showery rain, mainly for parts of eastern england. high pressure is dominating our weather at the moment, but we have got a couple of weather fronts that will be working their way south down the north sea over the next couple of days. so, for wednesday morning, then, we start off on a chilly note, some mist and some fog patches possible for parts of midlands, perhaps wales as well. through the day, the cloud will thicken bringing a few splashes of rain, particularly for parts of east anglia, the southeast, but there could be a few showers towards the east midlands. northerly winds in the east are blowing over fairly cold sea surface temperatures, only about 6 celsius in the north sea at the moment. so where you are exposed to that wind coming off the chilly sea, temperatures only about 9—10 celsius around that east coast, but away from the east coast, most of us up to about 111—15 celsius. fast forward into thursday, a fairly similar story once again, quite cloudy skies, but there will be some sunshine breaking through. and again, it's across parts of eastern england that we have a few showers. those fairly cool northerly winds keeping temperatures here around 9—10 celsius, but elsewhere, 13—14 celsius once again on thursday. towards the end of the week, we have that high pressure still out towards the west with the winds rotating. they're going to start to come in from a northeasterly direction. you can see those blue colours just pushing in across parts of southern and eastern england, so a change as we look towards the end of the week, a change in wind direction draws that colder air in across really the southeastern third of the uk. but elsewhere, we have still got a fair amount of cloud, quite a lot of dry weather, we could see temperatures about 13 degrees for the likes of glasgow, but for norwich, stuck at only about eight celsius. and it's going to be a southeast—northwest split into the weekend, where you are exposed to that northerly breeze, it's going to feel quite chilly for the likes of dover, for instance, but it's looking mild or towards the northwest with highs around 11 celsius. bye for now. this is bbc news. i'm sally bundock with the latest headlines for viewers in the uk and around the world. as european countries wait to hear if experts declare that astrazeneca's vaccine is safe two prime ministers vow to have the jab as soon as it gets the green light. the dutch go to the polls for an election set to be dominated by the fight against coronavirsus — the netherlands continues to suffer over 5000 new cases a day the religious leaders tackling vaccine hesistancy — and those undermining the message, by spreading misinformation. and robots that are indistinguishable from humans — we meet the russian scientists developing the next breed of androids.