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Today, we devote the entire programme to the immediate and longer term implications of the uks election outcome. My guests are janet daley, columnist for the sunday telegraph, political commentator steve richards, Maria Margaronis of us news weekly, and the nation author and veteran correspondent thomas kielinger. Welcome to you all. So i said it was an emphatic outcome. Janet, you start it off, what you expect to be done with it . We will get out of the eu, thats the start, which the country decided it wanted three and a half years ago, which seems an eternity ago, and the end of that paralysis will, at least for the moment, produce a kind of euphoria. It has already produced a kind of euphoria. If he is the clever politician i think he is, he will develop that. The conciliation he expressed in that opening speech, which was very well done, politically, a very clever move, is possible when you have a large majority, because there is not going to be the rancour and acrimony within his own parliamentary party, because he has got such a commanding majority, so he is going to be able to accomplish what he said he would accomplish, in terms of official removal of our sort of trade relations, the renegotiation of our trade relations and so on, without having to worry about his own party collapsing under him or disappearing under him. He will have a much less truculent parliament, because the opposition is in disarray, and there will be no excuse, in a sense, for him not accomplishing what he says he will accomplish. If he doesnt accomplish it, that is because that can be blamed on obstacles that are placed by the eu, rather than his own parliament. Steve, this idea of levelling up, one nation conservative johnson, conciliation and restoring trust, what is the other part of his agenda that he now has the freedom of a large majority to accomplish . Freedom to accomplish assumes that he, because of the freedom, will accomplish it. It is difficult. There is no doubt at all that the Cameron Osborne period of turbo charged thatcherism, in terms of economic policy, that was a curious period. They proclaimed they were centrists and modernisers and the rest of it, but they were inducing deep real terms spending cuts. To overturn that, by definition, means the real turn spending increases, so where will the money come from . They have pledged not to put up taxes, so it will be dependent on economic, but Economic Growth will be sluggish because of brexit. We will not have any money to bet. So you can be tonally warm, and he has been tonally emollient, as you are when you have won big victories, but the challenges of delivering for some of those who have voted conservative this time are immense, unless you break with all the economic orthodoxy is associated with the thatcherite and Osborne Cameron era. Lets see if he does that. Janet says euphoria, steve is more cautious. Where do you sit with regard to this agenda . Neither the one nor the other. Im not euphoric or defeatist. I think there is hope to be seen, and great expectations, and boris, knowing the man who wants to notjust win elections but proved himself capable of governing, will do his utmost to do that. Steve is right when he says, where does the money come from . A lot of his ability to fulfil the hopes of northern voters who came into his camp has to do with the fact that brexit is an uncertainty still, and that is where europe comes in, it has to do its best to continue a workable relation with Great Britain so as not to lose it a second time. You cant afford to lose britain again by being stubborn and hard nosed what have you. Will come to brexit but, on an economic point that steve was racing, there is another problem, which is that European Growth is absent. It would be more absent by the lack of £11 billion that britain used to spend into the common coffer, but this is all speculation. The world is changing everyday, every month and so forth, so europeans will have to get their act together and make quite sure that they combine their own crises, lack of growth, lack of expansion, with not wanting to lose britain a second time, to create and craft a relationship which works for the benefit of both sides. Its difficult to predict how it will look, but they are not going to be able to be stubborn and refuse compromise. So the times are great on both sides, with the emollients of boris, mrjohnson, and europe, to come together and work for a common, positive outcome. We were looking at the domestic agenda, and some are criticising, saying there is ideological incoherence between his talk of levelling up people withoutjobs, infrastructure and the rest of it, and on the other hand the free market globalisation agenda. Completely, and frankly i am depressed. First of all, i think having a large majority without an adequate opposition is bad for democracy and, secondly, i dont trust borisjohnson and the people he has surrounded himself by in the election campaign. I think the election was won on clever slogans and a lot of falsehoods, for example, about the number of hospitals that will be funded and so on, and i agree with steve that he will have difficulties in putting through his agenda, and how hes going to keep together. Of our main parties have been coalitions for a very long time, and the tory coalition, just as much as the labour party is, how is he going to keep together the victory fund is, the metropolitan financiers and so on, with these new conservative voters in the north, and the new mps from the north are an interesting bunch. Can i say, i dont think anybody in the country voted on the basis of how many new hospitals were promised by the tories. If they had done that, they would have voted for labour, who were promising much bigger spending, completely unfunded. This was the second referendum. They voted for relief from this horrendous paralysis, which i cannot remember in the 50 years ive lived in this country ever seen before, where there seems to be a parliament determined to obstruct what had been the referendum result that they all swore they would abide by. That was the most extraordinary sin against democracy. But here is the thing. Because of that paralysis, all we have focused on in the uk is that parliamentary battle, and with the almost sort of unwritten implication that, if the parliamentary battle could be resolved, there would be this great liberating moment. Lets come to that. But the bigger obstacle has been getting brexit done in practice. Trade agreements, as you know, are really complex. Steve, answer the question you have posed yourself. Is this going to happen in the course of 2020, as promised . He has got a big call to make. It could happen in one situation, which is if he decides to go for very close alignment with the eu, so, by definition, the negotiation becomes much simpler, because you are not extracting yourself from everything with what is called maximum diversions from the eu. That kind of prospect would take years. But, if he does the other way, i think there will be people in his party saying, hold on a second, this is soft brexit, thats it, and they may moan. And there will be problems, because the purists are still there. He has the freedom to make that decision with the big majority, but its to be difficult. Going back to the point about europe, and you described it as the obstinacy, i would say the arrogance of europe. If the eu negotiators had not behaved in the way they do, its very possible that we would be in a very different place. But the point is that everybody has to do business, and europes rate of growth is below the uk, the uk has had better growth, even during this horrendous period of paralysis. Germanys growth rate is 0. 5 and ours is 1. 5. In order to salvage the eurozone and the european economy, the europeans will have to meet our negotiations halfway. In order to for boris to make the most of his victory, the europeans play an important part and make it possible that, within a year, some semblance of a workable trading relation will emerge. Do you think they are relieved in europe that there was a clear outcome . Absolutely, so i dont share the depression here because, when you think of the horrendous stalemate we have suffered for three years, the emergence of a Big Government majority come it is not so much a feeling of democracy and democratic relations breaking down, its a relief, to be able to work again for the future and try your best. And the uncertainty was horrendous for business, and i said this in the past. The vast obstacle put before parliament to that Withdrawal Agreement that boris came back with, the heartbreaking e mails i got on the newspaperfrom readers who run small businesses. The parliamentary uncertainty is over. Businesses, as we sit here, do not know what is going to happen with their supply chains, they do not know the relationship in terms of the Single Market and so on. You said it is very difficult here but, going back to visit the difficulty that steve posed for borisjohnson, is he going to a soft brexit and alienate or offend some of the hardliners in his business Backing Community for his party . I suspect he will have to do a softer brexit. He isnt beholden to the erg in the way he was and, if he is going to dismantle with his new tory mps of the north, of the north, in his trip to the north today and the speech he did yesterday are anything more than window dressing, he will have to, because northern towns like stoke on trent, all the other towns, the so called red wall, that voted tory, they are expecting something back, and they voted as they did because they feel they have been neglected for decades and they will expect an economy that functions, which means good trade agreements with europe and elsewhere which are going to enable them to revive. Janet, are you expecting a close alignment with europe . What is close . One of the reasons we dont have to think of a nine year negotiation of a trade agreement, as canada did with the eu, is that we start in the same place. At the moment, our regulations are identical with europe, so it is a question of how far removed from that. So how far do we move . However far he moves, i can tell you he will be able to sell it. Thats the thing. He is probably the best person for that, to be able to persuade the party and the country that he has done something that is called a real exit from the european union. He is open to a new kind of european approach, witness the day of the referendum, when he had a column ready to argue for the benefits of staying in europe. Are you saying that as a positive . It is a positive. You have both sides of the argument and you decide which one you are persuaded by but those of us who work for a living can understand the possibilities of persuasion. We are not relitigating 2016 here. It is a character issue. Its a huge decision, and these terms are bounded around without clarity, soft brexit, what does that mean . But at the moment, he is committed to divergences on a big scale, again imprecise. If he sticks with that, a big if, but if he does, this negotiation will take years, and he has to decide injuly whether or not to ask for an extension. The talks will not begin until march so, within two or three months of the talks starting, he has the biggest call of his premiership. I am not hearing from any of you a reason why he should not have more freedom of movement to do the thing which appeals to some of his new voters, which appeals to the europeans. You are hearing that. He has to be true to the programme on which he was elected, which is a genuine brexit and, if he comes through with a phony brexit, all of us in the press will expose that very quickly and he will be discredited. Phony brexit can be made to mean a more amenable solution to the help of those people in the north. There is a lot of freedom. Freedom for manoeuvre is his biggest trump card. Hold on, what people say in an election and in a manifesto, even Boris Johnson, it matters subsequently. Tony blair won a majority of 180 then he wanted to go into the euro in various points of his leadership but he couldnt do it because of what he had pledged in an election, he would have to hold a referendum first and he knew he would lose it. You can have a majority of 500 but what you say doesnt matter. He has said certain things that might define trade negotiations in a way that europe has to decide what it wants to do but so does he and the british government. In reality he will have to compromise. Never mind what he said in his manifesto. President macron has warned that regulatory harmonisation as they put it will be necessary for access. They dont even have regulatory harmonisation between the two of them. So we dont need to take seriously what they say about that. . They are going to have to do business. Particularly the europeans are desperately in need of business, our business, they are not going to be in a position to be bloody minded. Both sides will come together. I completely agree there are differences between france and germany but they will come together as they did with the Withdrawal Agreement and come up with a set of terms that they will stick to. They will stick to a line, im sure of it. We dont even know who is going to request it. Lets leave that and turn to another huge issue for borisjohnson domestically, leaving one union and binding another. Maria, take us away on this question of how on earth he deals with the problem of scotland voting snp, new Scottish Parliamentary election coming up in 2021. The pressure he is going to be under. I think it will be very difficult. These hard line statements coming out from sajid javid saying there is not going to be a Scottish Referendum are premature. I think the political pressure from scotlands especially after 2021 where i think the snp will sweep the board in scotland, will be very great. There is also the issue of ireland. Northern ireland now has a minority unionist and is looking much more like a possibility of a unification of ireland eventually down the road. We still have under the Withdrawal Agreement aboard in the irish sea which was going to be a problem. I think it will have a problem with scotland and with Northern Ireland. Bear in mind that one of his strongest cards he played against corbyn is that you are going to have two referendums in the next year, the Scottish Referendum which will disrupt the United Kingdom and another referendum on europe. For him to give in and allow Scottish Referendum now would be a serious blow against his own argument against jeremy corbyn. But is there a problem with the consent of the scots . Not in parliamentary terms, no, because he has a huge majority. His majority is in england. Its in westminster. It is in the westminster parliament. Whatever he decides he can do. There would be a political price to pay but if he decides that he wanted to be absolutely ruthless, given the snp have now swept the board and there are so few tories, i think one tory mp left in scotland. He can afford to just do what he wants. That would be politically unwise in the long term but for the next year i think he has to keep to that promise that you will not be stuck with another referendum, meaning britain. Is there something he can do to charm the scots at this point . No. Scotland is moving away from england and wales or to put it a different way, england and wales over the last nine years has moved away from scotland. They are in many ways, certainly politically, they asked and recognisably different. England is pursuing this brexit with a big tory majority. Scotland voted snp overwhelmingly. Thats dynamic. And remain. I think at some points, if the snp sweep the board again, people in england keep predicting that the snps moment has passed and they do well again. I think they will do well again at the Scottish Parliamentary elections. There comes a point where you have to concede a referendum and i think you will have no choice but to do so at some point. But not in 2020 . Not in 2020 but sometime in the period of this westminster parliament. What about the irish point that maria raised . You have under the existing terms of the Withdrawal Agreement how we have seen it a semi border in the irish sea. Some say that drift towards the island of ireland reuniting will mean a constitutional political drift. The people who were pro remain and were very relaxed about improved relations and economic and otherwise with the southern part of ireland. And the outliers of the dup and so forth, was shown to have been on a sticky wicket. They lost in this election. There is a tendency in all of ireland to do the logical thing, improve frictionless trade and eventually even reunite constitutionally. That is . For the union of the kingdom. There was a polar couple of months ago where english tory voters were asked would you stand in favour of leaving the eu even if it means a threat to the United Kingdom and they said yes. To me that was astonishing. They play loose and fast of the possibility of breaking up the union. That is because they were so desperate for brexit. So what do we do with this slogan let the healing begin . How can we begin the healing . This is still the United Kingdom. But the bitterness that exists in parts of england is different from the kind of healing in other places. Ive never seen a time when i was so much utter contempt by what you might call a metropolitan elite for the working class hinterlands. It has been astonishingly ugly. Putting an end to that kind of vitriol is what he has in mind. The healing quote will be looked back on like the Margaret Thatcher one in 79. I think healing will be impossible. Im sure that is the intent. When Margaret Thatcher said it it was soon followed by the miners strikes and all the rest of it. Riots and so on, yes. People play those quotes ten years later with a kind of ironic smile. He went up to the north and was received very often with ecstatic friendliness. That was never the case with Margaret Thatcher. She couldnt have visited the mining towns. Lets talk about the north and what it called itself the north, labour, they claim to represent the working class but they lost a vote to an older tony in. Where is it going to go next . They talk about a period of reflection and choosing a new leader. Will that turn into an election winning machine . It will not necessarily produce that. It depends what form that will take. They are in disaster area. They lost four elections in a row after 1979 and theyve just lost another four in a row. This is a party that is so dysfunctional it cannot win elections when it should be able to do so. So this is a massive task. It is much harder on a lot of levels from 92 because the tories only had a very small majority then. But on another level i think it is doable. I think this alliance that Boris Johnson has one. It is a must and it is a massive personal triumph for him but it is a fragile one. The voters in the north of england to a dissolution now can become disillusioned with him in a different way. There isnt a route back but it needs a giant figure and im not sure who that giant figure is but it needs the labour party to be wholly overhauled because it too often loses election. The parallel of the four defeats that steve has come up with, they did overhauled at that point. They were taken over by a marxist cult. But they went to blair after the four defeats, that is the point i am making and then they won. I dont think there is a hope in hell of that happening again because the marxists have hold of virtually all the leaders of the party. The refusal ofjeremy corbyn to stand down as one would expect him to do and his insistence on a period of reflection have been enforced by the people who run him because they have to hold onto those leaders so they are not displaced. It is a longer term historical tragedy. It is a party created to express the views of the industrial proletariat. There is no more industrial proletariat. What is their role . The future of the labour party is so dire it reminds me of the 1983 election when michael foot came with a manifesto. Creating the corbyn phenomenon was another suicide. Look at the debate now compared to the 80s. It was about how much money should be spent. If they dont move left is their credible room for another party of the centre left . Corbyn disaster and brexit vagueness disaster and all these things. At the labour party comes from the grassroots. What were seeing now from tory mps in the north is a different kind of grassroots politics. It will have to go back to the grassroots. I am sure we will see difficult times ahead economically in this country and that is where the labour party will have to regrow from the community project, soup kitchens and those local self help movements. It has got to go back to the roots. And there we have to leave it. We could have gone on for longer but that is it for dateline london for this week were back next week at the same time. Goodbye. Hello there. By the time the sun rises well have ticked just about every weather box through the night rain, hail, sleet, snow, a bit of thunder, and some gusty winds. Through the night this area of low pressure to the north of us still maintaining some strong winds and the showers right into the start of the showers right into the start of the day. There will be some clear skies around. The day begins by chilly with some ice around and even a covering of snow of the high ground for some. The day ahead, a lot of sunshine, a few showers. This is how the temperature start. Many a few degrees above reasoning, midlands, north wales, northwards, greatest risk of frost and ice as we start the day. On the hills most likely to see a covering of snow. Wintry flurries continue through the morning. Many will fade for a time. Lots of dry and sunny weather to come through central and eastern areas during the day. Something com pletely areas during the day. Something completely dry throughout. Into the afternoon, southern and western areas, showers keep going. Heavy with hail, thunder, sleet, hail snow. A blustery day. When is not a strong. Through the hebridies in South West Wales could develop throughout the day. Temperatures for sunday afternoon, 2 5d across scotla nd sunday afternoon, 2 5d across scotland and Northern Ireland. A chilly day. Eating nine or ten in the south. Cool in the wind. The breeze brings overnight showers through sunday into monday. From north wales northwards where you see the showers of the Higher Ground you could get a covering of snow. Into monday mornings rush hour, a chilly one with a touch of frost and icing conditions around to start the day. Here we go into the new working week. Best of the dry and sunny weather will be across england and wales, morning showers feeding. Across scotland we could see some longer spells of rain around the coast, snow inland, undergoes, central and northern areas, lively showers to the north of Northern Ireland with strong and gusty winds. Another cool day for all. Late in the day, cloud increases towards the south. When potentially in the channel islands. Monday night into tuesday, watch what develops. This area of cloud, rain, this weather front could be further east, could be further west. It is further west, potential for sleet and snow over the hills. One to watch. The rest of the hills. One to watch. The rest of the week, the temperatures are on the week, the temperatures are on the rise. The brief, and it starts to raina the rise. The brief, and it starts to rain a bit more widely. Goodbye for now. Welcome to bbc news, im james reynolds. Our top stories extra time for climate talks in madrid, as delegates struggle to agree on crucial measures to tackle global warming. If we cannot agree on ambitious decision, we will fail to address the hope of the people who are waiting for us in our countries. Borisjohnson promises to repay the trust of former labour supporters whose votes helped him to victory in thursdays election. Arsenal distance themselves from comments made by mesut ozil, their star player criticised china over treatment of uighur muslims. And, tens of thousands take to the streets of rome to protest

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