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Transcripts For BBCNEWS Victoria Derbyshire 20240713

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As a result of our findings, the British Beauty Council is now calling for an independent body to be set up to look into claims of bullying and unfair dismissal. Ellie costello reports. The Beauty Industry isnt always beautiful. Its heartbreaking, actually, to think that an industry that were trying to really pull together is so at each others throats. I was diagnosed with depression, stress and burn out. I spent time in a facility. I was seeing grown women, like, strong women crying at their desks. It was so toxic and so harsh that they were desperate to leave. My friend, we was working at this boutique, and they asked her to not work the front desk because they thought that she was too ugly and too fat and it would stop people coming in. The Beauty Industry is big business. It contributed £14] billion to the uk economy last year, overtaking motor manufacturing and publishing. Such a big Business Needs a huge workforce. One in every 60 jobs is in the Beauty Industry. Weve been investigating bullying and bad practice. Ive spoken with more than 20 people who work in the british Beauty Industry who claim to be victims of bullying. Most of them say they are too afraid to go on record. They stem from director level of companies down to Makeup Artists on the shop floors of department stores. Ive heard accusations of abuse, blackmail and psychological bullying. So many of the people ive spoken with suffer from anxiety, depression, even suicidal thoughts. Nearly everybody says that the industry is facing an institutional crisis when it comes to bullying and harassment. Sarah had a senior role in an International Beauty brand. She says her boss was a bully and also claims she spoke behind her back, telling suppliers that she was sharing their confidential information. Sarah has since left the company. After that, i was only given junior roles within projects and i was taken off the project that id been working on very successfully for two years. I was ignored by hr and the board of directors. They treated me like i didnt exist. Many are fearful that if they complain, they will never work in the industry again. The Beauty Industry has no union, so employees of Companies Big and small find they dont have anybody to put their complaints to or seek advice from outside the company. Many of the people we spoke to have signed nondisclosure agreements, or ndas. It usually comes as part of a deal where employees are offered thousands of pounds, sometimes tens of thousands of pounds, for their silence around their employment. It means in the cases of bullying and harassment, victims often struggle to getjustice. As well as sarah, nicole is another woman in the same position, but still wants her story to be told. She worked as an executive for a beauty brand that we would all be familiar with. She says she was pushed out after telling her bosses she was pregnant. I was left out of meetings, i wasnt given information, they stopped ccing me into emails. And then with ten weeks within me coming back from maternity leave, i was told that i didnt have a future at the company and that i should just leave. And i was in floods of tears and sick to my stomach and i couldnt get. Really couldnt get out of bed. I was absent as a parent. I basically believed everything they told me. I believed that i was a bad. That i was a bad person. I was diagnosed with depression, stress and burn out. I spent time in a facility. I was really lucky. I received the best care and ive recovered. But so many people dont. And its notjust women who are affected. And then i got scouted to go to marbella. Wow zach is now a freelance Makeup Artist in essex. He loves hisjob now, but in previous work for big brands out in marbella, it hadnt always been easy for him. Being a guy in the makeup industry kind of goes against what women think you can do, which is sad. So there was a lot of times, like, are you sure you want him to do your makeup . Hes a guy. He doesnt know how to do makeup. People are greedy in that sense, you know . And they want everything to themself and they dont care who they throw under the bus. And were you thrown under the bus . My god, so many times. And then you leave, and theyre like, do you want to go for a drink . And you think. Youre like, yeah, because youve got no one else to do that with. But it affects you, whether its a year down the line, a week later or later that night, you get home, you think, oh, my god. And i think thats when i started kind of spiralling down a bit. Im not going to lie to you i went through a bit of a depression stage because i felt like everyone i had around me was fake. You talk about, you know, having to fit a mould and if you dont fit a mould, youre out. Yes. So, my friend, we was working at this boutique and they asked her to not work on the front desk because they thought that she was too ugly and too fat and that it would stop people coming in. Zach went freelance in the makeup industry after finding the environment too toxic. But there are people on the inside who are trying to make a change. Were here to meet lan Nguyen Grealis at the test shoot thejoshua kanes new collection, mythical creatures. So this is has giving her that bird impression in terms of shape. Beautiful. Its like me done well. Yeah. You know, if we put the feathers in and all that, you know. Shes a celebrity Makeup Artist, author and a prominent face at London Fashion week. But despite her success, shes also been a victim of bullying in her early career. So, especially from what ive been through, you know, ive used that to really fuel to be even kinder, to be even nicer and to really push that with my team. You know, its all about sisterhood, womanhood, you know, a lot of the girls have, you know, freedom to come and speak to me offside whenever they need to. Or if they need to let off steam, its fine. You know, i will always make sure that were all treated the same. Its very important that the girls feel like, you know, this industry is amazing. But if youre a really nice person, you know, you will sustain a great career. Whilst it has no union, the British Beauty Council represents the voices, opinions and needs of the british Beauty Industry. We took our findings to them. Its heartbreaking, actually, to think that an industry that were trying to really pull together is so at each others throats. It does fall on, really, the government because this isnt just a Beauty Industry related issue, i think this is a sort of nationwide issue and i think there needs to be some sort of ombudsman or industry body set up to make sure that there is a place, a safe place for people to go. The department of business said that through the equalities act employees are already protected against harassment in the workplace and they can always seekjustice at employment tribunals. The victims we spoke to said they were too afraid to take their ex bosses to a tribunal, and without a union, it would be a lonely and expensive ordeal. But its clear that withoutjustice, the impact of what theyve experienced is long lasting. I feel so much anger. Its not even anger. Its heartbreak. Following ellie costellos report, victoria sat down with three women very familiar with the workings of the Beauty Industry. Celebrity make up artist and author lan Nguyen Grealis, the celebrity make up artist bernicia boateng, and employment lawyer karen jackson. Why is bullying such a problem in the Beauty Industry . We talked about this earlier, and i think it is something to do with the fact that it is an industry that is about glamour and it is intense and lots of people want to work in this industry. It can be quite catty. We have spoken to the people who have been in this tree, they might know better than me. But it seems to be a dog eat dog environment. There seems to be quite a lot of. The film shows the extent of the Unlawful Discrimination and bad behaviour. We will talk to you about some of the cases you have handled. Why do you think it is so toxic . Like karen said, it is all about beauty and looking a certain way. Being a black make up artist, for me, it has been a bit of a struggle, especially in the beginning of myjourney, just because people judge you based off what you look like. If i turn up on set and i didnt look like any of the girls i was doing, if they were very light skinned, they might not believe i would be able to make them look great but i was literally trained to do make up on all skin. That was quite a struggle in the beginning. Why do you think there is such pitch he is . Pitch he psychological abuse on the other end. I came in from a different angle, self taught. I never set out to be a make up artist. Going in quite naive to the industry. I felt it was quite saturated. I felt may be that played a part in people feeling a bit threatened. By you . Maybe. From my experience, i heard some rumours and things said about me. Ijust went to the source and nipped it in the bud, i didnt take it personally. It does sit in the back of your mind and it is quite hurtful. When you are just trying to do your job and i absolutely love myjob, it is difficult when you have to face those things. As an employment lawyer who specialises in disc of a nation, tell us about some of the horrific examples that you have come across, karen with discrimination. Just bad behaviour at work and discrimination. The film referenced returning to work after pregnancy had been treated badly. We know that 77 of women coming back to work after pregnancy are subjected to unlawful treatment. It is astonishing. Is it any more acute in the Beauty Industry . You have one example of a woman who was going through ivf and tell our audience what she said to her bosses. She said she told her boss she was about to undergo ivf treatment and she wasnt pregnant and her boss said she needed to leave with a settlement agreement. There was a perception that if she was going to have a baby, she would take her eye off the job and she will no longer be in the industry will stop some of the cases i have dealt with are even more severe. Somebody who was disciplined for not turning up to work, the reason being he was in a coma. But the employer still persisted in disciplining him. Seriously . Seriously. I am a litigator, i see all the bad stuff but what we are seeing in the Beauty Industry is reflective of what is going on elsewhere. There are huge problems with bullying at work. It causes psychological damage. One of the differences is, in this sector, there is no recognised or dedicated union. You referenced earlier that people perhaps looked at you, because you had a different colour skin to them thinking that you werent up to the job. Where would you go, if you wanted some help with that, some advice, some protection . Like yourself, i am self taught, i just didnt really understand so much what to do. I didnt know where the union was, or deal with how i was feeling with being mistreated at work. I tried to persevere and do make up to the best of my ability and if someone didnt trust me, i made them look better than everybody else that they understood i was just as good. It was the best attitude to have. Back by popular demand, the return of our election blind date series, where we sent two people with opposing political views on a blind date. Jordan stephens from bestselling hip hop duo rizzle kicks goes on a date with the brexit partys alexandra phillips, whos a member of the European Parliament, and Nigel Farages former spin doctor. It is genuinely a blind date. Neither knows who they are about to meet. So will they hit it off, or will things fall apart when they Start Talking about brexit . Heres what happened. All right. My name isjordan stephens, known as being half of rizzle kicks. Ok, im alexandra phillips, im a brexit party mep. 0h bleep people would know me for being nigels right hand woman. I dont rate him. Accent like, he always talks like this, ok . Drank a lot. I voted remain. What do i think happens now . At the moment im feeling quite apathetic. I just want to know who it is, i really hope we end up swapping numbers and, you know. What . hello. Hi hi. Hiya. Alex, good to meet you. Jordan, pleasure. How are you . Hiya, jordan. Im good. Its a bit cold out there, isnt it . Yeah, its freezing. A bit warmer in here, thank god. Yeah, i think so, this is nice. Theres crackers. Yeah, i know. We could get going on one, if you want to . In my family, we always do the crackers before you eat, and then you wear the stupid hat. Im already wearing a stupid hat. I like your hat, its good. No, lets go for it. Lets do it. Ok, brilliant. All right, ok. Right. Yes yeah, that was fun. Go on. Its a joke, its a brexitjoke. Love them. Go on. Give it to me. Why was Nigel Farages christmas lunch so bad . Because there was no alcohol involved . I dont know. Go on. He banned brussels. Actually, we need to do this, dont we . Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who are you . What do you do . My name isjordan stephens. I was in a duo called rizzle kicks. No way . yeah. We did pepper the television for a good three years. You did, yeah. We had a strong 2012. Its your turn now. Its my turn . All right. Yeah, you have to explain to me about you. I am alexandra phillips. Im a member of the European Parliament for the brexit party. Before that i was a political spin doctor. So ive known nigel and worked with nigel farage for, like, ten years. I would love to know how you feel as a woman in politics. One thing i always try and do is i bring myself to whatever im doing. I dont try and be someone im not. You know, im alex phillips, daughter of a lorry driver, brought up in gloucester. You know, wore my brothers shellsuits till i was about 11 because basically we didnt have much cash. Love that. I mean, yeah, it is difficult. The thing that drives me the most mad actually is you always get the whole, like, shes probably slept with this person or that person. Really . Yeah. Oh, yeah. I hate that. All of that scandal, that. You know, if youre a young woman, you know, especially looking a bit like brexit barbie, people always. Is that your rap name . That is totally my rap name. People always want to sort of speculate on who youre dating. Frankly, ive got a cat, im happy. Leave me alone. But in politics. In politics thats ridiculous. That is ridiculous. If were talking brexit, that was actually something that i thought, in terms of remaining, because i thought that, like, you could surely improve the union from within the union rather than from outside of it. That was kind of my stance. Similarly, i do respect peoples opinion and what they want to stand for. For me, its like when people actually stood up to the establishment and went, do you know what . We want a change, we want things done differently. What is the establishment . Europe . The establishment is. Well, no, its everything. I think that brexit vote represented the will of the people just saying, whether it be the control from brussels, whether it be our own parliament. But what are you going to do to change that . I mean, nigel farage is another person in that category for me, and im sure hes impassioned, sure. Yeah. But, like, ithinka lot of his power, in my opinion, has been gained off the back of generating fear. See, what really upsets me about that is nigel is actually such a nice guy. Like, a really genuine decent human. How can you validate that poster, though . That breaking point poster . Really, in any world, how can you validate that . Not even from a political standpoint, that is incredibly dangerous. Yeah, look, im going to make it clear that i actually wasnt involved with that poster at all. You know, it did split. Listen, im sure a lot of those people are nice, but generating the idea that you are one of the people, one of the guys. I think theres a couple of pictures of nigel having a pint or whatever. Hes not one of the guys and from what i understand, theresa may, david cameron, nigel farage, borisjohnson. Like, maybe even corbyn to an extent, i dont know, but they dont seem to have really, really been in the muck. The thing is, its very easy to assume that politicians are all the same. Nigel has gone through a hell of a lot in his life. Hes survived a cancer, car crash, plane clash. When you see him having a pint in the pub, its not a photocall, that is what he does, believe me. Its pretty hard to keep up with his liver no, no, no, its the context of it, but. But im from a low income background, but one thing i really dont like as well is reverse snobbery. So, just because someones been to a public school. Yeah. Or is wealthy, or whatever, it doesnt automatically then make them someone who doesnt have information or doesnt have compassion. For me, a massive aspect of brexit was around immigration. Immigration was a massive, massive part of it. But basing that campaign off of people who dont look a certain way is where i think its dangerous. The way i see it, at the moment, our immigration system says, if you are from europe, which is largely caucasian, then it doesnt matter who you are, what you do, what you aim to do when you are over here, just walk straight on through. But if you are from, say, a commonwealth country, the amount of hoops you have to go through, and ive got so many friends in places like india and ghana, and its difficult for them, you know, even to come and visit me without almost a degrading level of, whats in your bank account . And letters of invitation. And i really think that being in the eu, weve criminally turned our backs on countries like india, like ghana. Weve just abandoned them. I hate that. I hear you in theory, but its just such a wild thing to hear when ive sat there and, this isnt your party, but the windrush scandal is like legit the worst political thing ive ever experienced in my lifetime. To have witnessed that. If i was an indian family or a nigerian family, i wouldnt trust the government even if we were invited, to be honest. And this brings me onto my point, which is, like, about creating a society that is based around, i suppose, more compassion, and australia, sure, theyve got a points system, but they still have massive issues with xenophobia. I dont know, man. I think humans, by nature, are tribal animals, though, and that is something that we have got to acknowledge and then break through. Do you know what . You should come and visit me in brussels. Well go and see the debating in strasbourg. Is this the parliament that you want to leave . Yeah. You will see how rubbish it is. That doesnt make much sense, does it . Do you kind of love it . Do you love it . Come on, do you love it . I do not like the European Parliament at all. Are you sure . But i really like my colleagues, and i actually do really enjoy myjob. Ill tell you what, lets make a move. Lets head off, shall we . Yeah. I think weve put too much money down, but well leave a tip. I had a really good time. I enjoyed it, i think. Ive lost track, mate, so many things. Basically, bleep the house of commons. We are secret revolutionaries, you and i. Yeah. Wild. I think youre going to be a secret brexit party voter if i work on you a bit more. 100 not. Finally, on wednesday it was announced that clive james, the australian writer, critic, poet and broadcaster, had died at the age of 80 after a long illness. Finally, on wednesday it was announced that clive james, the australian writer, critic, poet and broadcaster, had died at the age of 80 after a long illness. Victoria sat down with clive at his home in 2016 in one of his last tv interviews. In terms of your career, how do you describe yourself . Im at the peak of my career. No question about it. Im a better writer now than i ever was. And heres the secret. Ive got more to write about. I can write about life now. When the end is in sight, you get a perspective on life you never had before. I was just too done, and can and energetic. I was just moving forward at the highest speed of a thrown shoe. I wasnt reflective. Im much more reflective now. What do you reflect on . Everything. What i did wrong as well as what i did right. Id be a little bit trepidatious inviting you to ask me all the things i did wrong. Theres a long list of them. Well probably get to it, and ill stall you. Ill give you a bad time. Give me some examples. Finally, on wednesday it was announced that clive james, give me some examples. I could have been. I was not a faithful husband. I should have been, but i wasnt. I have apologised for it to the person who matters. But. I cant be proud of myself on that score. I try and be proud of the fact that im still married to the only person i ever did marry. Id like that to count for something. Has she forgiven you . Forgiveness is a big deal. But if im alive, then ive been forgiven. We are surrounded by many books that you have written, including this, which features your dear friend pete atkin, with whom youve had a songwriting partnership for decades, and you say that this is the work that is closest to your heart, but the work that is least known about. Weve really suffered as a songwriting duo, pete and i have suffered from, i should say, lack of attention. Some people would say lack of success. Lets change that now. Im very proud of what weve done, and it hasnt really been very well known, and its rather ironic that that might start altering from my angle at the very moment where i depart the earth. What is it that you enjoy about songwriting compared to, say, writing poetry . I think songwriting or lyric writing is writing poetry, but its in a much more compressed form, and its simpler in the grammar, but sometimes more complicated in the imagination. I enjoy everything about it. And ive always wanted to do it, and i still do. But its a tough business, and whats fascinating about this aspect, whats happening now, is that were getting back into business on such a scale, whether all the records will come out again, i dont know. Ive got a feeling they might. But if you want to hear pete singing our songs, you can do it right there on youtube. Youtube is changing everything. And you canjust dial them up. A song like beware of the beautiful stranger, which is probably our most famous song, its right there. Get away from the beautiful stranger. This is wonderful. Its all going to happen starting tomorrow. What am i doing . Falling off the twig, as we say in australia. You can watch the full interview with clive james on our website, bbc. Co. Uk victoria. Thats it for this week. See you again at ten oclock on monday on bbc two and bbc news. Weve had some crisp sunday sunshine across a large swathe of the uk today, and despite this, temperatures have struggled to get above this freezing. Was brampton in cumbria earlier this afternoon. Showers down the east coast of england and cloud across southern england and cloud across southern england will tend to fade this evening. Clear skies for england and wales, but more cloud for scotland and Northern Ireland, bringing rain, chiefly into northern scotland, as the night wears on. Milder, but a few pockets of frost across scotland before the cloud increases. A widespread frost for england and wales. Temperatures down to 3 or minus four celsius. This frontal system grazing northern scotland, continuing to bring outbreaks of rain through the day. Heavy and persistent at first, turning patchy. You could see outbreaks of rain in the central belt in southern scotla nd the central belt in southern scotland by the afternoon. Cloudy and Northern Ireland. Crowding cloud increasing across northern england. Through tomorrow night, the rain continues on its journey east, heavy and persistent for a time across the northern isles, then it clears away. A drier day on tuesday, this area of High Pressure starting to drift away south and eastwards, and as it does, it will pull in some more moist air, so an increasing risk we will see the fog returning through tuesday and wednesday, some of it slow to clear across england and wales. Most will see spells of sunshine, and it is a dry day for the whole of the uk on tuesday. For england, wales, Northern Ireland, 68dc the england, wales, Northern Ireland, 6 8dc the top temperature. This frontal system starts to push into Northern Ireland and scotland, the rain most persistent across scotland, and then easing away. Thursday into friday, we see the colder blue colours being replaced by yellow colours by the end of the week. Cold at first in the week ahead, turning milder from week. Cold at first in the week ahead, turning milderfrom the north, a further risk of fog, and then wetter and windier by friday. This is bbc news, im shaun ley. The headlines at 1 me Cambridge University confirms that the woman killed in the London Bridge attack was a former student. The Prime Minister tells the bbc that 7a people jailed for terror offences and released early will have their licence conditions reviewed. I absolutely deplore the fact that this man was out on the streets. I think it is absolutely repulsive, and we are going to take. That repulsive thing happened under the conservatives. It was conservative legislation and a conservative regime. A failure to recruitment has left huge staffing shortfalls, posing again a serious risk to our security. You cannot keep people safe on the cheap

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