Transcripts For BBCNEWS BBC News At Five 20240713

The brexit party are the party of the new radicals. That is who we are. We want to bring politics and our democracy into the 21st century. Plaid cymru launches its manifesto, promising a £20 billion investment in what its calling a green jobs revolution for wales. Im in sheffield, where we will be covering a bbc question time leaders special. Several british children who were orphaned in syria are said to be in good spirits after being flown back to the uk and reunited with their widerfamily. And its time to let it go all over again. Find out what mark kermode thinks of frozen 2 and the rest of the weeks top releases in the film review at 5 45pm. Good evening, its 5 oclock. Im jane hill. Our main story a man who strangled a british backpacker in new zealand and hid her body in a suitcase has been found guilty of her murder. Grace millane was killed the night before her 22nd birthday last december. Her parents cried in court as the jury returned its unanimous verdict. Grace millanes father said the family had been ripped apart by her brutal death. A Court Suppression order means that the convicted mans identity cannot be disclosed and it bans media from naming or picturing him. Shaimaa khalil reports from the court in auckland. A family united in grief. David and Gillian Millane leaving court after their daughters killer was convicted of murder. Grace was taken away from us in the most brutal fashion a year ago. Our lives and family have been ripped apart. Grace was a beautiful, talented, loving daughter, grace was our sunshine, and she will be missed forever. She did not deserve to be murdered in such a barbaric way. This is Grace Millane the night before her 22nd birthday in december. The last time she was seen alive. Graces killer appeared in court today, his identity cannot be disclosed for now due to a Court Suppression order. Cctv showed the pair out drinking but, within hours, she was strangled in his apartment. This is the killer telling police why he didnt call an ambulance to help grace. I dialled 111. But i didnt hit the button. Because i was scared at how bad it looked. Why did you think it looked bad . Well, theres a dead person in my room. The jury heard that, after the murder, the man searched online for how to dispose of a corpse. He also watched extreme pornography. They also saw him going on a date with another woman while graces body was still in his room. This is him later, moving the body in a suitcase. He then buried it in a shallow grave in bushland outside auckland. The defence argued that grace died accidentally, that this was a consensual sex act gone wrong, but the jury did not believe it. They heard forensic evidence of how grace endured sustained pressure on her neck for five to ten minutes. They also heard the prosecution argument that the killer sexualised her death by taking intimate photos of her dead body. Graces murder shocked this nation. At the time, the countrys Prime Minister could not hide her emotions. On behalf of new zealand, i want to apologise to graces family. Your daughter should have been safe here, and she wasnt, and im sorry for that. The outpouring of sorrow and support was felt strongly by graces family. We would like to thank the people of new zealand. They have opened their hearts to grace and ourfamily. We must return home and try and pick up the pieces of our lives, and day to day, without our beloved grace. Todays verdict may give the family some closure. But it will not take away from the pain and the suffering they have had to endure. The brexit party has unveiled its policies for the general election, promising fundamental change for the uk after it leaves the European Union. Instead of a traditional manifesto, the partys leader, nigel farage, published what he called a contract with the people. He promised to raise £200 billion by withholding eu contributions, redirecting foreign aid and scrapping hs2. He also said the party would get rid of the house of lords and reform the supreme court. Tom symonds has been following the launch. His report contains some flash photography. They have not even been in existence for one year, and his party has been taunted for not having any policies, except the one which was in the name of the party. So, what has he been launching today . Well, it is a contract with the people, as he calls it, not a manifesto, but it does have some promises, including the promise of radical thinking. As leaders of the new radicals, none of those things will happen with the conservative and labour parties. They do not want any fundamental change or reform to the system at all and change or reform to the system at allandi change or reform to the system at all and i detect that is a big change of mood out there in the country. This will become part of the mainstream debate. Whether it is over the next three weeks or in time, i dont know the answer, but the need and desire for political and institutional reform is enormous. The party wants a clean break from the eu, without paying any more money, money which nigel farage wants to spend on road, rail, high streets, cancelling the interest Student Loans and cutting the cost of living. As yet, three and a half years on, there has been nothing for the little people, nothing for the ordinary people whatsoever, as our politics and our debate around the economy continues to be dominated by giant corporate noble business. Starting with cuts to vat on domestic fuel and hoping that importing products from outside the eu will lead to lower prices. With Extinction Rebellion outside, there was almost nothing on Climate Change except planting trees. The brexit party may have signed up former conservative ann widdecombe, but it is not fielding enough candidates to win this election. Nigel farage has described his party as a start up. Perhaps hes hoping to disrupt an existing political market. Without us, there will be no genuine brexit. We now want to lead the next phase, which is a Political Revolution that puts the ordinary people first. Thank you. In the end, it is the populist pitch, vote for us, we are not part of the westminster status quo. But the push for a Political Revolution stood out today. The brexit party wants to abolish the house of lords, have a new voting system, house of lords, have a new voting syste m , get house of lords, have a new voting system, get Civil Servants to sign an oath of impartiality, and to allow people to vote the referendums. Who would have thought it . The Prime Minister is on the campaign trail in advance of tonights question time appearance. This afternoon, hes been at a hospital in nottinghamshire where he met hospital staff and patients. He was asked about the conservatives plans for a stamp duty hike on people from overseas who buy property in the uk. What we are doing is putting a 3 increase in stamp duty for foreign buyers. 0ne increase in stamp duty for foreign buyers. One of the advantages of getting brexit done is that you can then do it in a non discriminatory way between all International Buyers because previously you could not do it with people coming from the 27 eu countries. As we come out of the eu we will levy that increased stamp duty on all International Buyers. I wa nt duty on all International Buyers. I want our market to be open, i want people to be able to buy stuff in the uk, it is only reasonable when International Buyers come in and buy property that they should make a contribution to life in this country, and we will use that 3 stamp duty to help tackle the problems of homelessness. I think it is the right thing to do. The shadow chancellor, john mcdonnell, has rejected claims from the independent economic think tank, the institute for fiscal studies that labours manifesto commitments outlined yesterday byJeremy Corbyn cannot be met with 95 per cent of taxpayers paying no extra tax. Mr mcdonnell also denied the suggestion that raising Corporation Tax would mean wage cuts and higher prices. Plaid cymru have been launching their manifesto in wales. 0ur correspondent, tomos morgan, is in nantgarw for us. Wales is asked will be plaid cymrus motto for this campaign, and adam price began to speech here just outside cardiff in the constituency of pontypridd, a target seat for plaid cymru, by outlining their brexit plan, which is they do not wa nt brexit plan, which is they do not want brexit and they want a second referendum, giving the people the final say, but one of their main pledges was this £20 billion commitment to a green job revolution for wales, money for electrification of further south wales rail lines, more bus services, but also large scale Infrastructure Energy projects such as three tidal lagoons, tidal barrage and a new offshore wind he also said that the advantage of this green job revolution would not only be the creation of jobs but revolution would not only be the creation ofjobs but to tackle the urgent Climate Change crisis across the country. The money from that would come from 1 of gdp over ten yea rs would come from 1 of gdp over ten years towards the screen job revolution so £20 billion towards this revolution in wales. A £5 billion programme of investment to ensure, instead of crippling fuel bills, our people get a fuel dividend. We have the power, we have the potential to create tens of thousands of new high skilled jobs as wales becomes the cradle of the green industrial revolution, just as we were to the original 200 years ago. You may remember that last year the uk government rejected plans for a new swa nsea uk government rejected plans for a new swansea bay tidal lagoon, and big Large Scale Energy Infrastructure Projects are still not fully devolved to wales so potentially some of the things outlined in the manifesto today would still need a uk government approval but some of the other pledges in plaid cymrus manifesto actually do involve devolved topics, they are talking about Free Childcare for young children, free social care at the point of need, publicly owned full fibre broadband by 2025 and building 20,000 new homes over the next five years, so some of the pledges also devolved, may be having an eye for the future of the Welsh Assembly elections in 2021. Plaid cymru have full seats at the moment in wales and to our marginals even though they are targeting a few more. You may remember as well that plaid cymru have entered a pro remain packed so it will be interesting to see that they can cement themselves as the pro remain party in wales. The snp leader, Nicola Sturgeon, has called on borisjohnson and Jeremy Corbyn to debate her face to face ahead of tonights question time Leaders Debate. The first minister of scotland arrived in sheffield earlier, where shell face half an hour of questions from the live studio audience. Mrjohnson and mr corbyn are also taking part along with lib dem leaderjo swinson. ToJeremy Corbyn and borisjohnson, i would say its great to be in a programme where well all face the same audience, but why are they so scared to debate face to face . So i guess throw out a challenge to both of them. Why dont you come and share a platform with me, and then we can talk about these things together and challenge each other . I was struck, during the itv debate between the two of them the other night, that they were quite happy to talk about me quite a lot, about the snp, about scotland, but neither of them seemed willing actually to come and debate me. My my colleague will be following all the evenings debates. Well, hello and welcome to sheffield. All four leaders will be on the stage tonight in front of 100 150 people and fiona bruce will be in the seat keeping a tight rein in all. Let me introduce you to the auditorium in the room itself. My colleague has been taking a look. The four Party Leaders will be making a pitch to the nation from this very podium and irrespective of the relative size of their parties they will have the same amount of airtime, 30 minutes each. But rather bizarrely they have agreed on something, the order of service. Jeremy corbyn will be first up, then nicola followed byjo swinson and finally borisjohnson. They nicola followed byjo swinson and finally Boris Johnson. They will have to be careful about what they say and watch their step because previously a political leader stumbled on a programmejust like this a few years ago the spin doctors will be watching out for that but they will also be wary because this is a particularly challenging format, one that puts the audience in charge, 150 of them designed to be representative of the British Public as a whole, and they will put their questions directly to the politicians. From past experience, they can put them on the spot. At the moment, the polls seem to be ossified in this general election with the conservatives out in front, is difficult questions from the audience, a poor performance from that stage, and perhaps the shape of this general election over the next three weeks may change. Tune in at 7pm for the question time special. What are we looking for tonight . Festival, we will see how the Party Leaders perform in front of an audience who will ask direct questions from the audience not having a ding dong with each other as they had on tuesday night. What we are also looking for is not so much trading policies. Borisjohnson will want to talk about brexit, Jeremy Corbyn will want to talk about public services. We are looking for competence and character. The audience in public full say not so much how you will spend but can we trust you to spend wisely, can we trust you to run the country . The other thing worth looking at is if we end up with another Hung Parliament, the role of the lib dems and the snp could be crucial. What would the deal be . From jo swinson presumably she will demand a referendum on brexit. Will Nicola Sturgeon demands another Scottish Referendum on a specific timescale . A uk wide audience will be interested to hear what the red lines are of the smaller parties hearing the pitch from borisjohnson and Jeremy Corbyn. Thank you very much indeed. A very big night for sheffield. Somebody who had a big role politically in sheffield that got the big break out moment in these televised debates was nick clegg but back in 2017 it was a shocker of a result and the general election because the former deputy Prime Minister lost his seat in Sheffield Hallam, and it has turn up other electoral surprises. Lets talk a bit about that with Felicity Matthews from the university of sheffield. Lets talk about that festival. When you look at the televised debates, it was nick clegg who got the most out of the debates. In 2010, for one moment he was riding so high in the policy was more popular than Winston Churchill and it shows you what a difference a debate can make. It was not to last as we saw in 2017. It is throwing up surprises in recent years, notably on brexit because the other northern cities all lean slightly towards remain, this one bucked the trend. It voted to leave in all constituencies apart from Sheffield Hallam which was eight remain voting constituency, that makes it really interesting because the lib dems are looking to make their comeback to that seat, and since day one following the last general election they have been campaigning hard on they have been campaigning hard on the ground to their candidates are very familiar underground. Ian was telling us about the make up of the audience but obviously sheffield is the city, all six seats in 2017 went to labour, so do you think this would be good ground forJeremy Corbyn, and yet lying over that is the brexit argument in a brexit city. Not necessarily wise to take their seats for granted. The constituency down the road, it is a traditional labour heartland, and x steel town, it voted to leave but also voted for labour, and in the 2017 election the conservatives did not win and it reduce labours majority from 7000 to 1300, and that is the sort to seat the conservatives need to make inroads for. What will happen in terms of brexit . That remains to be seen. The brexit . That remains to be seen. The brexit party are fielding a candidate. Lovely to get your thoughts on that. You will watch it with me later on. Just to tell you that the debate will be between 7pm and 9pm but if you want to get the most out of it you need to stick with the bbc news channel because we will have reality checks throughout the debate. He will check all the various facts. You can also look on the bbc app if you want. But plenty of reaction here. Before the debate, i will be in the spin room from various people from the four parties and we will be here to mop it all up at the end of the night between 9pm and 10pm so dojoin me for that. Lets go to Martine Croxall in norwich. Throughout the campaign, bbc news will be looking closely at the places where the election could be won and lost. We will be visiting 10 parts of the uk where seats will be closely contested. Today, were in norwich in the east of england. We have parked ourselves in the forum which looks even more beautiful as the sun goes down and the lights shine against the dark sky. The city is split into two constituencies. In the last election, one was held by the conservatives and the other by labour. The main battleground is in the north of the city. In 2017, conservatives beat labour by the small margin of 507 votes. In the 2016 referendum, the area of norwich used to count referendum results voted to remain in the European Union by 56 to 44 so it finds itself out of step with its neighbouring areas south norfolk, broadland and breckland, all of which voted to leave. Well, norwich is one of the cities with the lowest pay across the uk, so theres a lot interest in plans from the Political Parties for big increases in the minimum wage after the election, although businesses and economists are warning that higher wages might affect how many People Companies can take on. Heres simon gompertz. Taking a hit for higher wages. Employers, like this Youth Activity centre in norwich, are bracing themselves to pay more to staff surviving on the minimum wage. Ive got a child to look after and ijust find it incredibly difficult to make ends meet. Harriet, who is 25, works as a fundraiser. Putting up the minimum wage, what would you think about that . I think, on the face of it, its a really great thing and it sounds wonderful, but i would be concerned about some issues. For example, my benefits. Im a young single mum. Would that mean that my benefits would get cut . Also, im worried about cost of living. Could that filter down through to our supermarkets . The National Living wage for over 25s is £8. 21 at the moment. Under labour, it would climb to £10 from the age of 16. The conservatives aiming for around £10. 50 from 21, but phased in over five years. The snp would get rid of the lower minimums for all young people, like labour. The lib dems wants an independent review. There are around 80 people employed with us. Id say 30 of those would be on or around the minimum wage. But the worry at this centre is that theyd have to reducejobs. Wed have to re evaluate our offering. Whether there are potentially areas that we could cut back on our staff, whether there are services we could cut back on. One thing we would really want to avoid doing is cutting back on the services that we provide for the youth, which is what the charity and the business is all about. In fact, so far, minimum wages havent appeared to hold jobs back. Jobs have got better and wages have gone up. The question is, how far can you push it before employers say thats enough . At the grosvenor chip shop, jobs arent in danger, but the cost of a meal might go up. We couldnt make our money without them. If the living wage does go up, i wouldnt have a problem paying it. I would have to raise my prices. 18 year old grace here would celebrate if the election serves up an end to lower minimum wages for people under 25. Doing the same job, but not earning enough, i dont really see whats fair in that. Id use it to save things, but also to buy necessities, food, but also to be able to go out and have a good time. Its a big issue in norwich, and the number on minimum wages would be very big if the rates were pushed up. Under labours plans, the total would triple to more than six million. Well, lets discuss all this with emily norton savills, head of Rural Research and partner in a norfolk farming business, and richard hirst, a livestock and arable farmer. We have got to talk about brexit because it is such a big part still in this general election. How did you vote in the referendum and what is your view of that now . |j you vote in the referendum and what is your view of that now . I voted leave. I was very excited about the possibilities of bringing together more coherent policy making across all the different spheres that influence how farm businesses run. Annual view has not changed . No. I voted to remain but now my view has changed, i think we just need to get oii changed, i think we just need to get on with it, the whole thing has been disruptive and we should follow that democratic vote and get on with it and leave and deal with whatever we have to deal with. With a deal, hopefully. With a deal, it is the only sensible way to do it but i can see from a political point of view why having that as a negotiating chip is important to the people in that room, trying to negotiate that deal on our part. Beyond brexit, what are you looking for from the Political Parties to make farming more sustainable . We need to have a policy that reflects Food Production because we are very good at it. In norfolk we have some of the best soils and growing conditions in the country, in the world actually, and we must produce food. We only are 60 self sufficient in food and we should be higher than that. So lets focus on production but that the same time we must have protection for the environment, we have very sensitive areas in this part of the country. Norfolk was the first place where there was any environmental scheme at all in the world in the 80s and we should build on that. Hopefully the government will do that. I think they are all saying they will pay some money. that. I think they are all saying they will pay some money. I am trying to ask you here you will vote for, richard. I will probably trying to ask you here you will vote for, richard. Iwill probably vote for, richard. Iwill probably vote for the conservatives. There are interesting stuff in the manifestos. As much as it has been called the brexit election, but this is really the environment and climate election. All of the parties are trying to outcompete each other in their competitive attitude and how much money will be put into the environment and Climate Change. Which party fits the bill for you . We have not seen the conservative ma nifesto we have not seen the conservative manifesto yet but there are interesting things in the labour party manifesto, particularly around how carbon is accounted for notjust on production basis but an import basis and that could create a bias toward Sustainable Production in this country but until we see the conservative manifesto it is really ha rd to conservative manifesto it is really hard to say. How likely is it where you vote, in this sea of blue in norfolk, is labour likely to win . What the Industry Needs is consistency now, consistency policy making and some certainty so we can go ahead and plan, so everything to do with land use, long term planning situations, we are crying out for that in the industry at the moment. Iamso that in the industry at the moment. I am so grateful to you being here today. And you are wearing a printed fox frog, and a printed tie, dressing the part more much laterfrom sheffield. More details have been released about some british children whove been brought back to the uk from areas of syria that used to be under the control of the Islamic State group. The orphans are the first to return from the camps there. 0ur diplomatic correspondent, james landale, is here. How much do we know at this stage . These children are vulnerable and are these children are vulnerable and a re protected by these children are vulnerable and are protected by the courts, but a judge in the High Court Today has released more information that we can now report. Yesterday we were saying these children were being repatriated, they have now returned. Thejudge said they repatriated, they have now returned. The judge said they were met at the plane with their relatives, they appeared to be in good spirits. The children were then taken to the family home where they live. They slept in the car peacefully. And then this is the interesting part, they immediately recognise family members and their family home and they settled into the home and appeared as happy as they possibly could be in the difficult circumstances of their return. After three orfour circumstances of their return. After three or four years circumstances of their return. After three orfour years in circumstances of their return. After three or four years in syria, they have come back and a degree of optimism. And this is a number of children, what about others . Charities estimate there are around 60 other children of british origin out in Northern Syria still, some are orphans, some have their mother still with them, there may be 25 women. The question is, what will happen to them . Charities are saying the British Government has made a start, lets get more, but it is really difficult. Not all these children at the same place, some of them it is hard to identify them, some of them might have forgotten their english. If you are under five and you have been there for four yea rs and you have been there for four years your memories of the uk will be limited. The Prime Minister was asked about this this afternoon. The point the Prime Minister made force, the situation in syria is very difficult and dangerous, but it would be overoptimistic to say that we can do it every single case because the military logistical circumstances are difficult and there are considerable problems so there are considerable problems so the government would just do a case by case. The government would just do a casebycase. Leslie thank you very much, james landale, a diplomatic correspondent, thank you very much well, thank you very much. This is bbc news. The headlines a 27 year old man is found guilty of murdering Grace Millane, the british backpacker who was strangled in new zealand. Nigel farage unveils the brexit partys policies for the election, calling it a contract with the people rather than a manifesto. And plaid cymru launches its manifesto promising a £20 billion investment in what its calling a green jobs revolution for wales. 0k, 0lav, youre up. 0k. Its so much easier now that i can read. Lightning round. Boys against girls. And its time to let it go all over again find out what mark kermode thinks of frozen 2, and the rest of the weeks top releases, in the film review in just a few minutes. But before that lets catch up with the latest sports news. Good evening. Yes, good evening, jane. Andy murrays been left out of the Great Britain team again for their davis cup quarterfinal against germany in madrid. It means singles will be played by dan evans and first kyle edmund who is one set up on philip kohlschreiber. Murray played in the first match of the group stage but missed yesterdays win over kazakhstan. Meanwhile Novak Djokovics serbia are out after they were beaten by russia in their quarterfinal that had its frustrating moments for the world number two. Hed won his singles rubber to take it to the doubles. But djokovic and Victor Troicki were beaten by Karen Khachanov and Andrey Rublev on a final set tie break. Russia will play canada in the semis. Scotland will face israel in ther euro 2020 playoff semifinal after the draw this morning. The game will be at hampden on march 26th, with the winner going through to face either norway or serbia for a place in the finals next summer. Scotland have won three of the four times theyve played israel and are 36 places above them in the fifa rankings. Should Northern Ireland win away at bosnia in their play off semifinal, the match to decide if they reach the tournament will be at home, and it could be against the republic of ireland if they beat slovakia. Now there will be plenty of managers renewing their rivalry withjose mourinho now that hes back in the premier league with spurs. But one relationship will be taking on a different perspective this season. Frank lampard is now manager of chelsea, mourinhos former club, and he says it was a surprise his old boss went to spurs. Because would lampard ever take the same job. . I have to say no. And you can replay that in 20 years or whatever. I had a very deep feeling toward the club and obviously went to Manchester City at the end of my career for a year but chelsea is something very close to my heart hence why i am so proud to manage this club and hence why i wouldnt manage tottenham, and thatis why i wouldnt manage tottenham, and that is no disrespect to tottenham. I have a lot of friends who are tottenham and arsenal fans etc, but sometimes when youre in it there are some things you wouldnt to do. Not this respectful to the club, but just because what chelsea has given me over my time as a player and what it has given the now, it is certainly not something on my list. New zealand will resume on the third day of the first test against england still 209 runs behind the tourists after ben stokes scored the runs and then sam curran took the wickets that have given england a slight advantage in mount manganui. Stokes top scored with 91, smashing 12 fours along the way. But the tourists werent able to build on his innings. After stokes became one of three wickets taken in a spell by tim southee, england were eventually all out for 353. But sam curran took the key wicket of new zealand captain Kane Williamson in the final hour new zealand were 144 4 at the close. Play resumes at 10pm our time. England will feel very, very happy, i think. They have chipped away. They work really well as a bowling unit. They have complemented each other very well and i thinkjoe root handled his attack really well. England in the driving seat here. They will chip away again tomorrow. New zealand, you know they have santner, but they dont have a lot of batting left. I think england will feel they have a substantial leave substantial lead. Thats all the sport for now. You can follow the davis cup on our website. Kyle edmund is ahead in that by a set. Many apologies to the line therefore christian in sheffield. I think we can re establish it because the Leaders Debate is taking place injust underan hourand the Leaders Debate is taking place injust under an hour and a half, four leader is taking place on that and you can watch it on the bbc news channel this evening. Brexit, the nhs and a number of issues personal to audience members likely to be discussed. How important are these debates in changing opinions . And what should leaders do to come out on top . Lets discuss this now with two political pr heavyweights kevin pringle, former Strategic Communications director for the snp, whojoins me from glasgow, and ayesha hazarika, a former labour adviser for ed miliband, whos in london. A very good evening to both of you. Is it someones to win tonight, ayes ha is it someones to win tonight, ayesha hazarika, or someones to lose . I think for the leaders of the big two, labour and the conservatives, they will play pretty defensively. Borisjohnson has most to lose because he is leading in the polls and his big challenge will be for him to look like he is in touch and has empathy with the audience. Jeremy corbyn will be trying to have a breakthrough moment. He really needs that this week after his ma nifesto, needs that this week after his manifesto, but i think the fireworks may well come from the smaller parties, the snp and jo swinson. Remember they really havent had their moment in the spotlight yet, but their appearances wont be without peril either. There will be a lot of questions about Scottish Independence for Nicola Sturgeon and jo swinson as well may get some tricky questions about her time in the coalition and issues like austerity, for example. Yes, kevin pringle, would you go along with a lot of that . What are you particularly looking out for tonight . I think what Nicola Sturgeon wants to do is really planned her campaign sturgeon wants to do is really planned hercampaign in sturgeon wants to do is really planned her campaign in that uk wide context. She is obviously very familiar with arguing her case context. She is obviously very familiarwith arguing her case in the context of scottish politics but this is her real moment of opportunity, if you like, to set out the snps campaign and actually related to what it could mean not just to scotland and the kind of concessions, if you like, and snp group at westminster could achieve for scotland, but the difference such an snp group could make to the governance of the whole of the uk. So think she will want to get across tonight notjust so think she will want to get across tonight not just her so think she will want to get across tonight notjust her position on the constitution which is evident might very well known, she supports Scottish Independence and wants to get there as quickly as possible, but she wants to put across a much Broader Vision in terms of wider social and economic policy, won the snp group could achieve at westminster in terms of an nhs protection bill, for example, in relation to a potential trade deal with donald trump, welfare reform, scrapping the two child limit for tax credits, expenditure on public services, all of these things. I think what she really needs to get across is that position that she will have in relation to the wider social and economic agenda, and the difference that an snp group could make to the governance of the uk as a whole. She is really pitching her case tonight, in a sense, never obviously she wants to maximise her votes in scotland but she wants to relate her case and make it entirely releva nt relate her case and make it entirely relevant to the uk wide context of this election. Its very interesting that we heard her speaking a little earlier saying she would rather like it if it was a proper sort of round debate, that it was the four of them discussing, such as she said she wished the limit wished she could discuss properly in a formal setting with Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn. If that just something a leader says because it is the right thing to say, or do you think she feels she would genuinely benefit from that, because that is not of course the format of the night . It is four half hours. Yes, the format of future debates. I think she does mean it. Something the uk wide audience really needs to appreciate is of all the leaders across the uk Nicola Sturgeon is by far and away the most experienced debater. She has been deputy first minister in scotland since 2007 and she has been first minister of course since 2014. She went through many, many debates in the run up to the independence referendum so whether it isJeremy Corbyn or borisjohnson referendum so whether it isJeremy Corbyn or Boris Johnson orjo swinson, Nicola Sturgeon has taken pa rt swinson, Nicola Sturgeon has taken part in many more debates than any other leader so she is the most experienced. I think she is the best debater out of the lot so of course she is going to take all the opportunity, she is going to take her half hour tonight, but i think she will particularly relish the future opportunities next week, i think, the seven way debate. If you think, the seven way debate. If you think back to the 2015 election, for example, it was that first debate which was a seven way debate where Nicola Sturgeon really made an impact in the uk wide election, and she wants to make that impact on the uk wide campaign. In the debate the other night, for example, between Jeremy Corbyn and Boris Johnson, you know, the snp and independence were mentioned umpteen times but she wasnt obviously they are to be able to present her case. Like michael k. I think she wants to say im in this campaign and i think she wants to say im in this campaign and i am location as a player, across the uk, notjust in scotland. Potentially of course looking at a Hung Parliament depending on how the polls and the result goes. Ayesha hazarika, quick thought about the fact that as we have been reflecting, for anyone who watched the last debate, of course there will be people watching tonight who saw there will be people watching tonight who saneremy corbyn and borisjohnson previously in the itv debate, what do those two men do about that . Do they go in thinking, well, i need to sort of build on the last one, or do they think, this could be a whole new audience, they could be a whole new audience, they could be a whole new audience, they could be people watching tonight who dont know the first thing about what was said in the previous debate . We just spent a lot of time talking about Nicola Sturgeon, and i do agree she is a great debater. But no matter how good she is she is not going to be Prime Minister. The Prime Minister will either be Jeremy Corbyn or Boris Johnson Prime Minister will either be Jeremy Corbyn or borisjohnson and Nicola Sturgeon can win as many seats as she likes what she is not going to be in downing street, and what is important is that thats whyjo swinson will be using this opportunity very, very important that she wants to take this opportunity to cause both the conservatives and the labour party serious damage. But as for Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn, Boris Johnson and Jeremy Corbyn, Boris Johnson will want to be playing this as safe as possible because he is in the lead at the moment. I know you cant believe everything the polls thae and we still have three weeks to go but he needs to play very defensively and of course he will not just be getting defensively and of course he will notjust be getting questions from the owner, the interviewer. He will be dealing with the public, so you cant get irritated with the public. You might get some tricky questions on the russia report, for example, his own partys failure to deal with islamophobia. So he has to play quite defensively. Jeremy corbyn has got to try to get a standout moment. He hasjust got to try to get a standout moment. He has Just Launched his got to try to get a standout moment. He hasJust Launched his manifesto, he pulled pretty evenly with Boris Johnson at the last debate polled pretty evenly. But he is still trailing in the polls so you will need to create a moment that will give him, to coin a phrase, momentum, and helps move his figures with the public. There will be quite a lot of pressure onJeremy Corbyn but he is quite good with the public. He is seen to have quite a lot of empathy, being white in touch, so she might fare better in that environment in public than borisjohnson. That environment in public than Boris Johnson. We must leave it there. Very many thanks to both of you, thanks very much indeed. Ayesha hazarika and kevin pringle, thank you. That debate tonight. Just a small piece of news to bring you following on, away from politics, following on, away from politics, following on, away from politics, following on from more followed from the Prince Andrew interview that was given to newsnight. We are just hearing from barclays that it is pulling out of pitch palace, one of the schemes that Prince Andrew runs. They say in light of the Current Situation they have informed pitch palace that Going Forward they will no longer be participating in the programme. That isjust through from barclays. It is very nearly time for the film review, but first a quick look ahead to sportsday. Coming up on bbc news, the draw for the euro play off spot has been taken, with the euro play off spot has been ta ken, with scotland the euro play off spot has been taken, with scotland drawing israel. If they win that either serbia or norway will stand in their way for a place to next summers tournament. Northern ireland and the republic of ireland already knew their opponents but will play each other in belfast if they win their respective semifinals. More on all of that coming up on bbc news later this evening, but now it is time for the film