Transcripts For BBCNEWS Beyond 100 Days 20240714

Yet to have its say. As for whats next borisjohnson warns he will seek to trigger a general election if the bill passes later this evening. Hello and welcome. British mps have only been back from their summer break for two days and have already inflicted two defeats on the government most recently in a vote to prevent Boris Johnson from taking the uk out of the European Union without a deal. And it was during that vote that another conversative mp Caroline Spelman joining 21 other members of the group called the Rebel Alliance who all voted against the government. The night is young and the main events on the house of commons floor are still to come borisjohnson is expected to challenged the opposition to hold a new election something Jeremy Corbyn says the labour party will not support. That show you the live pictures in the chamber. They re just that show you the live pictures in the chamber. Theyre just breaking for a vote on one of the amendments to the bell, one of the first votes in the so called Committee Stage in the reading of this bill. We will bring you some of the results through the course of the evening. Lets explain what the bill is. The bill will shape Boris Johnsons way of negotiating with the eu. It gives the government until 19 october to either get a deal approved by mps, or get mps consent for a no deal exit. If the deadline passes without one of these two things happening, the bill requires the Prime Minister to delay the uks departure from the eu. The Prime Minister will have to ask the eu for an extension to 31 january 2020. If the eu proposes a different date, mps will have two days to approve or reject the date. If mps approve a deal or a no deal exit, then the Prime Minister can withdraw or modify his extension request. Joining me now is the Financial Times whitehall correspondent, Sebastian Payne and deputy Political Editor at the spectator, katy balls. Lets talk about the stage we are looking at in the commons at the moment. How many moments are being put forward, other and we should look out for . Not particularly. This is mps trying to shake the bill, that generally a clear majority to get the bill through unamended. As you said, we saw on the second reading of the bill, that went through by a majority of 29 because Caroline Spelman, the former chair of the party, rebelled to join the Rebel Alliance. Interestingly, Dame Caroline is not losing the whip, unlike the other 21 rebels. This has been explained by downing street by the same about yesterday was a confidence matter, whereas this is not, that some of the 20 when ive spoken to are not particularly happy about it. They have just lost their political careers, they are now blocked from standing at the next election, the yet Dame Caroline essentially voted at the same thing as being allowed to stay in the party. So it will be interesting to see whether the alliance grows and builds throughout the evening. But on the amendments, i think they will go through pretty much unscathed. The real action will be in the house of lords where there are 90 amendments to a very basic business motion to set the terms of the debate, and the person brought suitcases, duvets, shaving kits and toothbrushes, to stay all night to try to get this thing through before parliament is prorogued on monday. Maybe we should do the same, it would save us from going home as you can see, they are going out to vote at the moment, this is in fact amendment 19, has come from the conservative mp for gloucester, remove the need for parliament to approve a no deal and add a requirement for the pm to seek an extension for a deal. That is the first of various amendments that have been put forward, cross party, through the evening. There could be as many as ten votes on this Committee Stage, so we could be here well until nine oclock till we get through all of this. There has been a 1922 Committee Meeting in the last hour. What are we hearing from them . It didnt go terribly well for Boris Johnson. Quite a lot of conservative mps repeatedly attacked him for his decisionat the 1922 as the committee of mps. Sort of trade union for the tories. He was repeatedly attacked for his decision to withdraw the whip, and mps both centrist and brexit supporting, all said to him it was the wrong decision. In response, he repeatedly said it was the decision of the chief whip, mark spencer, and he had to abide by it. A lot of toys are saying, this was your decision to do this, it was made in downing street, so why are you shouldering the blame . There was also criticism of Dominic Cummings, the chief adviser, who has been under a lot of scrutiny in the past 24a is under a lot of scrutiny in the past 2a a is for his role in withdrawing the rep from tory mps. And the Prime Minister i am told said you shouldnt blame him because he is like a latex mask to me, really saying you should be blaming the Prime Minister. He also talked about various brexit things, but i dont think it was the happiest meeting of the 1922, reflecting the volatile mood in the house of commons chamber. Pm cues and the spending statement, a lot of anger and the braille among mps. I was watching pmqs, i was struck by how many mentioned Dominic Cummings. It reminds me a little of wearing my washington hat for a second, of the iow washington hat for a second, of the row there was around steve bannon, and he became too much part of the story just as and he became too much part of the storyjust as Dominic Cummings is here. Thats probably good for mr johnson, because if mps are criticising Dominic Cummings, working behind the scenes, instead of mrjohnson, and when he signed up to become his chief adviser he was very happy to be a lightning rod for that criticism for the Prime Minister, but you know the way mr cummings has acted and his role as people see it in bidding for with this effort to remove the whip, is very controversial and you do have to wonder if mps are re targeting all that eye on mr cummings how long will he last . We knew hed only be on thejob till the will he last . We knew hed only be on the job till the end of october, but the way things are going you could see things ending sooner. And katie bowles is here. Tell us what is going on in downing street. The motion tonight will be put forward by the Prime Minister for motion tonight will be put forward by the Prime Ministerfor a general election, but they must know it is unlikely to pass with the two thirds majority they require. So what do they do . I think there are other options if that doesnt work. I think it would be a big surprise tonight if they somehow managed to get the two thirds. Boris johnson will be addressing the commons, so lets see what he says. And again, anything use here from the Prime Minister now, it might be about trying to get a couple of mps minister now, it might be about trying to get a couple of mp5 on side but the real audience is the general public and the fact that he wants to get a general election. Lots of attack on corbin, and i think thats about positioning himself. In terms of the other options, this idea that you do a one line built to call the election, that would only require a majority, which is a smaller number of mps, then you need under fixed Term Parliament act. Were they to move to that very quickly, i think you might see how they could get the numbers to get an early election, because you have the conservative party, the bulk of the conservative party, perhaps not those who have just departed, would lead to this. And also you have the dup, who i think would support them, then the snp, and with had Nicola Sturgeon suggest she doesnt take the sounds of Jeremy Corbyn of delaying an election. She thinks the sooner you get the conservatives out the better. There are some within the labour party who think that better strategy forJeremy Corbyn would be to delay and force borisjohnson to go back on his central promise during the Leadership Campaign which was to leave on the october 30 fast. Would that be a concern for another ten . I think its a massive concern. Politically its disastrous for borisjohnson. Because of that, i think there is a question as to whether he could actually be forced into doing that. Weve heard in this week outside number ten say he would never ask for an extension of brexit, yes, that house of commons might legislate against it but i think there are still some options. 0ne think there are still some options. One suggestion was that maybe you could call a no confidence vote in himself, which would be extraordinary he could also resign. There are many things he could do, and we will hear from borisjohnson around about nine oclock, half past nine. But even though he said they dont want an election, he now definitely wants one because now we move past the point this bill will make it into law, the strategy is all now about taking this to the country trying to have an election on october 15, country trying to have an election on 0ctober15, before the eu counter and before the last point a brexit deal might be on the table. From labour cosmic perspective, this focus is getting the bill into law. 0nce focus is getting the bill into law. Once the bill is in law they come back to the question of whether they support the confidence motion. The next couple of days will be about the votes, getting the bill into law, then on monday, which could be the last day before parliament is prorogued and shut down by mr johnson, there could be one last attempt to try to corner an election. And if that happens mr johnson would have to run on a platform of trying to withdraw the bill to still leave the option of a nodal brexit on the table. A lot of vitriol in the house of commons today. But he does have one super fan. Lets play you a clip from donald trump. Well, boris is a friend of mine, and hes. Hes going at it theres no question about it. Hes in there. I watched him this morning he is in there, fighting. And he knows how to win, boris knows how to win. Dont worry about him hes going to be ok. He is in there fighting, he knows how to win. Well, hes had two defeats in two days so you better start winning soon. Does an endorsement like that help . M start winning soon. Does an endorsement like that help . It can. Theresa may never really wanted to be too closely associated with donald trump, i think she thought it was divisive. I dont think Boris Johnson has such qualms. I think they are happy to say a special relationship with the us is important and play up the fact that he would have good relations with trump. I also think he looks at the electoral strategy for Boris Johnson and conservative party led by him, its very focused on leave voters and focused on trying to get seats that have never voted tory vote tory. I think there was an a cce pta nce tory. I think there was an acceptance that had lots of cities that the tories have previously held seats, the current direction means they will suffer losses. I think they will suffer losses. I think they are pitching to leave voters and if Boris Johnson they are pitching to leave voters and if borisjohnson can say i have great relationships with the president and were working on a trade deal, i think thats seen as a positive. Can we talk about, as we are waiting for the first vote on the amendments, about the unprecedented nature of all this. You have a parliament that has taken away control from the government, a government with no majority, it proceeding at breakneck speed through parliament. And in the words of some brexiteers today, effectively the house of commons handing the onus to the European Union. That is what critics of the bill say because theres a clause in the bill that says if they want an extension till the end ofjanuary, that if the eu rejects the extension than the Prime Minister has to automatically accept it and bring it to the house of commons for a vote. 0bviously, people behind the belsay mps could vote down the extension so if the eu says lets have a five year extension mps say no. But it definitely shifts the power balance away from the executive and away from the uk. And that is a big problem. If we do have the general election campaign, which seems almost a given now, you can imagine every single day borisjohnson will be talking about jeremy every single day borisjohnson will be talking aboutJeremy Corbyns surrender belle. He was talking about it today and is very much saying he is handing control to brussels and away from the uk. 0n the bill is unprecedented, it is much more complex than the bill that went through in march and april that did some of the things, giving mps control of brexit. And its another reminder of the one dimensional focus in that place across the road, they forget sometimes that it is in they forget sometimes that it is in the power of the eu to decide how long the extension is. I remember at the last council summit, there were some who wanted a year extension. They may come back and say were not doing this rolling three month nonsense while you cant get your act together. Lets go all the way to the end of 2020. They could, and i think were they to do that, there isa i think were they to do that, there is a question about how Boris Johnson responds in terms of does he stay in position. But you would quickly sit weaponised by number ten. I think the fact the surrender bill is what they have called it, they want to weaponised it, they wa nt they want to weaponised it, they want to suggest the people trying to stop no deal are not pragmatic, they are opponents of brexit. If you see this remain alliance saying if we cant get that will take the longer extension, to a degree it plays into borisjohnsons hands extension, to a degree it plays into Boris Johnsons hands for pitching himself an election. If he has to preside over it, that is a tricky thing, which is why i think he wont. Good to have you both with us. Letsjoin our chief Political Correspondent vicki young whos in the central lobby. We arejust we are just watching the tellers start to take their positions in front of the dispatch box. We are going to get the first result of the amendment. I remind you, derrida sebastian was saying he doesnt think any of the amendments will come to much this evening. Think any of the amendments will come to much this eveninglj think any of the amendments will come to much this evening. I think thats yes. Some of them are about bringing back on reviving theresa mays deal. What she must be thinking now i dont know. We have a number of labourmps are thinking now i dont know. We have a number of labour mps are saying i kind of wish id voted for her deal back then. Maybe she we should bring it back. It feels a bit late for that. Im joined by the conservative mp andrew percy. There are mps, labourmps, mp andrew percy. There are mps, labour mps, saying they should have voted for theresa mays deal. Labour mps, saying they should have voted for theresa mays deallj dont buy it. They had three attempts and they didnt. There may bea attempts and they didnt. There may be a small number who genuinely regret it, but i think theres a lot of dishonesty. I think theyve played it long from the start, because they represent leave voting constituencies, they pretend they acce pt constituencies, they pretend they accept the result, but they dont they want to play it as long as possible. They didnt vote for the first or second or third time and i bet my bottom dollar, comes back again they will find a reason not to vote for it again. So if we look at what happened in your party last night, recriminations are flying, the Prime Minister has had people suggesting to his face that he should not have done it, he seems to blame the chief whip, 21 or 22 mps out of the party. If you label something is a confidence vote than the rules are clear on it, its not a new thing hes brought in, if you vote against your party and a confidence vote, which is what it was designated, then you lose the wet. I think it is unfortunate that people have lost the whip, but we have to restore discipline, we have to deliver there is result the public voted for. In some mps stood on manifestos, including some on my own side, delivering this result, who have never had any intention of delivering it. So there comes the end of the road for those people. Im sorry it has come to what it has. They would say they did vote for brexit, they voted for the deal. So they are not boxing brexit in that sense, they wanted to leave as the manifesto said in a manner that wed orderly manner. Some did and some didnt. Some have consistently voted against the deal as well, sol dont know where they are, they dont know where they are, they dont want no deal and they dont wa nt dont want no deal and they dont want ideal. But it was designated a confidence vote and every body knows the rules of the game. If you vote against a confidence vote you are voted out. I believe mps should have an attitude to do as they want are many issues, but this is one thing thatis many issues, but this is one thing that is so fundamental, we all stood on the manifesto of when we failed to deliver the will of the people, and we have to get on and do it now. So are we ready for no deal . It seems as if that is the way we are going if Boris Johnson seems as if that is the way we are going if borisjohnson manages to stay in charge. Lots of people are very concerned. The mps who are talking about are not really doing it because they are against brexit necessarily, they are doing it because they are really worried about what nokia would if the economy. I dont buy that, i believe they are against brexit. If they are so they are against brexit. If they are so in favour of compromise and retaining Close Relationships with europe, as they claim, to avoid what they call a disastrous nodal brexit, then why when faced with three votes in the house of commons to do just that and vote for a compromise and a deal, did they grow into the lobbies with the members of the aig who are the minority here who are determined to have a nodal brexit. My conscience is clear. I voted consistently for a deal, a norway option on four occasions. But the same alliance keeps forming of remain as who dont accept the result and the small amount who dont want to know deal. Result and the small amount who dont want to know deallj result and the small amount who dont want to know deal. I would be on those options now . What you think is the most likely scenario . Ive given up trying to predict anything. Anybody who makes a prediction is just guessing. I do believe the Prime Minister wants to leave on a deal, there is the opportunity. Do you . A deal, there is the opportunity. Do you . A lot deal, there is the opportunity. Do you . A lot of your colleagues dont. There are no new negotiations, no new thing is being put forward according to brussels. Lets not ta ke according to brussels. Lets not take everything brussels say as gospel, just as you dont take everything number ten says. They are also playing a game as well as numberten is of also playing a game as well as number ten is of course because this is negotiation. So much of what they say is aimed at the other side. But we have a deal, the bare bones of a deal, which is the one negotiated by theresa may. There are amendments which could be made that quite simply, that would now mean there would be a majority in this place for that deal. So there is an opportunity on october for that deal. So there is an opportunity on 0ctober17 when the Prime Minister goes to the eu council to try to have a discussion around that bring something back. I think we could leave for the deal, but this is also avoidable if the mps who claim to be outraged by no deal had voted for the deal on the three other occasions they had an opportunity we wouldnt be heading for no deal. I would be happier and heading for no deal. I would be happierandl heading for no deal. I would be happier and i think the country would be more united and i think they would be happier as well. Thank you. There moments will carry on through the evening and then we move to the motion being put forward by the Prime Ministerfor to the motion being put forward by the Prime Minister for an to the motion being put forward by the Prime Ministerfor an early general election. We are in for the long haul this evening, so stay with us long haul this evening, so stay with us for that. Looking through this list of amendments, there is an interesting one that stands out, and thatis interesting one that stands out, and that is the one that has been put forward by Stephen Kinnock, the labourmp, who is forward by Stephen Kinnock, the labour mp, who is trying to amend the bill to ensure the extension would provide space to bring back theresa mays deal. The Withdrawal Agreement. How will that go down . Its kind of extraordinary because it comes from a group of labour mps who have a lot of regrets, the people who want to brexit deal and should have voted for theresa mays and realise a couple of months too late they miss the opportunity. So they are putting down the amendment to try to show the strength and a potential majority for the Withdrawal Agreement. The problem is this amendment isnt going to be backed by the front benches, so i cant see the tories backing it all the labour, many people in labour, but it will show how many mps who didnt vote for labour on the third meaningful vote, that i doubt lets listen to the results. The ayes to the right 65, the noes to the left 495. Thank you. The ayes to the right 65, the noes to the left 495. The noes have it. Unlock. We now come to amendment six, Stephen Kinnock to move. The question is that amendment six be made as many of that opinion say i. To the contrary, no. Division clearthe lobbies. And it very timely fashion, we come to amendment six which we we re we come to amendment six which we were just discussing now. We come to amendment six which we werejust discussing now. How we come to amendment six which we were just discussing now. How are the frontbenchers going to approach this, the idea of the Withdrawal Agreement coming back . And is it effectively vote number four on the Withdrawal Agreement . It would be, that ultimately i dont think, obviously you should predict this close to an event, but i dont think it will pass. Ultimately what a lot of these mps backing the amendment are doing is not expecting this to passin are doing is not expecting this to pass in any way, you just have a group of labourmps pass in any way, you just have a group of labour mps trying to signal to their constituents, a lot of whom voted leave, that they want to deliver brexit in some form and this is an attempt to do that because ultimately you had these mps vote against the government yesterday about taking control of the order paper, and thereby taking effectively once it runs out no deal off the table, and i think this is so off the table, and i think this is so they can say they still support brexit in some form. I dont think the majority of people backing this think it will pass. It is a realisation in some parts of the labour party that while there is a fixation on taking a deal of the table, really, the only way to take no deal of the table is to either get a deal or revoke. Because if borisjohnson were to get a majority, even the other side of 0ctober, he would still have an ideal option. Yes, and i think there isa ideal option. Yes, and i think there is a lot of regret from those labour mps because they feel they have to deliver on the referendum result. But the politics was never right for them to actually come through and pass that back in march when the deal kept coming back and back again and again. But borisjohnson has made it very clear that the Withdrawal Agreement, is dead. Made it very clear that the withdrawalagreement, is dead. He made it very clear that the Withdrawal Agreement, is dead. He is not bringing it back, he wont vote for it. The only way it can come backin for it. The only way it can come back ina for it. The only way it can come back in a new form as if it does not have the irish buddha backstop, and thatis have the irish buddha backstop, and that is where negotiations between the uk and eu are currently at, about trying to find another way to have this insurance policy to make sure there is never a hard border on the island of ireland while not trapping the uk in the eus regulatory board bit, as some exit is see it. Just a quick thought, do they see if it goes down for a fourth time, it has to change but it wont get through parliament. Fourth time, it has to change but it wont get through parliamentlj think wont get through parliament. think that should have landed already. A full time as no surprise. But i think in brussels there is a sense that there is so much happening in british politics right now what will happen in an election, everyone knows its coming, whether weeks or months, is it a remain alliance that win or is it Boris Johnson with the no deal mandate . And then perhaps they will negotiate and that is when i think they will decide the next move. Thank you, both. If you are justjoining decide the next move. Thank you, both. If you arejustjoining us, lets show you quickly the pictures in the house of commons. They have broken for another vote. This time its on an amendment brought forward by Stephen Kinnock of labour, this would be to put the Withdrawal Agreement, or a new Withdrawal Agreement, or a new Withdrawal Agreement, to the house during an extension period, so between october and january, this is the Second Amendment of the evening that they are voting on. But there are several others. And of course, later that evening we come to another important vote, and that is a vote on a general election. We will bring you all that live here on this bbc special. Do stay with us. Well, despite the political chaos here in the uk, the eus chief negotiator is insisting things are still running smoothly. He was Michelle Barnier speaking a short while ago. After my meeting with magistrates, still at work and i want to tell you that the eu will remain in any circumstances vigilant, united and calm. Lets go and speak to our correspondence. A busy day in europe and the focus very much away from westminster. I know that eu ambassadors have been in town, talking about preparedness. What is the reaction been there . The reports from here, you heard me barnier there, he was on his way into talk to the Eu Parliament when he gave us those comments. He had just been a little bit earlier in the day briefing on the eu 27 countries here the message and there, nothing new has come from the uk, including today when the Prime Ministers brexit or eu adviser, david frost, was here having meetings in the european commission. Nothing new was tabled there in terms of proposals for the irish backstop. What we do understand from sources is that what appears to have been discussed is that the uk brought customs experts, they talk through ideas, but theyd really talk through some other things which was issues like the fact that the uk, Boris Johnson wants was issues like the fact that the uk, borisjohnson wants to dump some of the things theresa may agreed with the eu, particularly things to do with a Free Trade Agreement down the line, and these are provisions, things like levelling the Playing Field provisions, so the eu wants guarantees of a level Playing Field on things like environmental rights, labour rights, if it will grant the uk labour rights, if it will grant the u k a ccess labour rights, if it will grant the uk access to its markets in a free trade deal. The important thing about this is that what is being discussed and there is what Boris Johnson wants is to move backwards from where theresa may was and those issues make it harder to solve the irish border question, not easier. So to sum up, no new proposals from the uk today, and in fact, what looks to me like moving backwards not closer to an agreement. So no progress here at all, really. Stay with me, i want to bring our viewers up with me, i want to bring our viewers up to speed with what is happening in the chamber. There is a bit of chaos, actually, because i think they dont have any tellers, so they cant do any counting savour the moment they have suspended the vote on amendment six, the amendment from Stephen Kinnock that would add to the extension and necessity to discuss and approve a new Withdrawal Agreement. We will bring you up to speed when we have news of what is going on, where they get to with the vote, we will bring you the result is when we can. But lets go back to damien in brussels. You mentioned that david frost had been in brussels today. A lot of focus in the house of commons today as to whether there is a real negotiation, did he say anything or did you get a feel for what he had said to the eu . He said nothing at all. On his way in and out. We tried to put questions to him, asking if he had anything new to put on the table, ask him if the negotiation he is fronting the other is a sham . As some in Boris Johnsons fronting the other is a sham . As some in borisjohnsons advisors are meant to have said. He wouldnt a nswer meant to have said. He wouldnt answer any questions. But we understand, he was hit with a group of technical experts discussing, was issues around the backstop, the political declaration, the Free Trade Agreement, but nothing to do with new proposals, no new proposals on his back to present, only discussing around those ideas are things borisjohnson discussing around those ideas are things Boris Johnson might discussing around those ideas are things borisjohnson might want to change in the deal that has been agreed already. As i was saying, those things make it hard to get a deal. Damien, let me interrupt you. To move the third reading, i call mr hilary benn. Thank you. The question is now that the bill be read for a third time. As many of that opinion same i, of the contrary, no. Division. Clear the lobby. There seems to be some confusion over what was happening. They seem to pass that and have gone on to a third reading of the bill. I dont want to put you on the spot, but have you seen anything like that before . havent, i dont know if thats because of the third amendment was called. I have a list of them here but they dont seem to have called any of those amendments. Weve been saying all night, it is proceeding through the chamber with extraordinary speed. That is the reality of trying to pass through all of the stages, the house of commons in a day. You do have to rattle through will. Weve seen a slightly more problematic in the lords where we could get to a bit of a crunch point, but we are expecting a crunch point, but we are expecting a current down very soon based on what happened last night, you would expect to be successful in the way the amendments have gone. But the big question will be the house of lords and what happens this evening with the general election motion. We should remind viewers who might be joining us that there has been a vote on the second reading of the bill, and in fact, the majority for the so called Rebel Alliance was increased to 29. Caroline spellman also voting for the bill. Theres no suggestion that a third reading is not going through . No, i think it would be a big surprise if those 21 rebels last night, and obviously caroline spellman, with all the threats they received and having slightly withdrawn have a change of heart. The big test then will be the house of lords, but also the game going on in the background about a general election and more specifically the timings of that general election. That will become a key point of both parties wanting to try to use the timings to influence their positions in an upcoming general election. Just a step back and explain to people the passage of the bill, once you have passed the third reading, then it goes to the Upper Chamber in the house of lords. But the Prime Ministers view is that this is well going into law, so he will put a motion in for a general election this evening. Exactly, he promised last night that if it passed the commons, he would go for a general election because it shows where the mood of the commons is. You cant do anything like that, you may be able to try and pull some shenanigans in the lords, filibustering, etc, but it is a clear expression in the commons that he does not have the backing and he cannot credibly go to brussels and say i can get through parliament a no deal, nothing can stop me. Because the last three days have proved otherwise. It is really not a formality just because proved otherwise. It is really not a formalityjust because it goes through the commons now that the bill will pass successfully, because the lords are doing their best to filibuster. There is Something Like over 80 amendments put down just on the motion that creates time in the house of lords to discuss the bill. So we are not even anywhere near the bill yet. By the determination of the lords on the brexit side, equal determination on the remaining side. We in with sleeping bags in tens of food, they will see it out. Although there is a determined effort to try and talk it out, you would expect that it would go through . You would expect it will go through. They are sitting in on friday through sunday, they would need to pass a motion which itself could be filibustered. So we could have another amendment to extend business . Exactly, it depends on how resolute the lords looking to filibuster our, and whether they are, having seen it go through the commons in the Prime Minister shift to an election, think the game is not stopping this flagellation but trying to influence when an election comes and falls. Number ten today will be well aware that labour will not vote for this motion on an election tonight. Boris johnson needs two thirds of the vote and he will not get that at this stage, not until the bill has passed. So what are the options for number ten at the moment . What other things could they do to bring about the election they want . They could wait until the passage of the bill goes through, they achieve royal assent and try the two thirds vote again. It could still be difficult because presumably labour will want to push the date of the election over 31 october so this so called do ordie over 31 october so this so called do or die promised has already been broken going into an election. Thats option one, weight and used the fixed and Parliament Act wants the fixed and Parliament Act wants the bill has royal assent. The second option, which would be unconventional and may send a difficult message, is to put the no confidence motion down which just needs a simple majority. To vote no confidence in himself, which would presumably stop a general election, but then in the difficult election of having to vote confidence in government. The more likely option is to come up with a simple piece of legislation that could come in, later this week or early next week, that says setting aside the fixed Term Parliament act, the piece of legislation that governors have an election called, we want the next election called, we want the next election to be on an unspecified date. And that would then be open to amendments and have challenges in actually getting that through the commons itself. I think we are all of the opinion that we are heading towards a general election, itjust isa towards a general election, itjust is a matter of when. Joe, thank you very much. We were scratching our heads about what happens at the amendment stage. Lets join our chief Political Correspondent vicki young, whos in the central lobby. What happened there . Im not sure, i have two phones trying to figure that out. It is not unusual that amendments dont get pushed to a vote. I look at the list, we will never have or that many votes. What seems to be surprising is that we think stephen connects amendment may have gone through by mistake, because it was expected to be defeated one. But we think there werent enough tellers for the noes. Stephen kinnock. Its gone through. Now this could be nonsense, im trying to find out, i have messaged Stephen Kinnock who is still in there trying to figure out what is happening. Thats why we have moved on so quickly to the next age, which is the third reading, the final stage of proceedings in the commons. We do expect that to go through. Something else has happened, there has been a letter sent from a group in the tory party who call themselves the one nation caucus. This letter has come from people including damien green. We know that earlier at a meeting, there was some unhappiness about what happened yesterday with those long standing veteran conservative mps having the whip withdrawn, meaning they will no longer be able to stand at the general election before the conservative party. Now a group has written to the Prime Minister saying we cannot support the removal of the whip from principled, hard working, and dedicated colleagues. And what theyre saying is that they want those mps to be brought back into the party so that if there is a general election, they could if they wa nted general election, they could if they wanted to stand as conservative candidates. There is a mechanism for that, a back door mechanism, and appeals process within the 1922 committee. I was reading briefings from what happened at the backbench Committee Meeting, and the likes of edward lee and davey and green dust damien gree werent cheered for speaking up for the rebels, and those attacking the rebels were booed. It shows you there is real animosity for what has gone on here. It is, by naming the names youve named, these are not people who have been on one wing of the party when it comes to brexit. So edward lee, for example, is a long standing brexiteer. Tim lassen was another one who stood up for his colleagues. I think there has been a lot of tory mps who feel that downing street has gone too far with all of this, that although they accept that discipline has to be restored, they didnt have to go as far as all this. Now there are others who say hang on, they we re are others who say hang on, they were told very clearly what would happen if they went down this road. They were had their power taken away, its been given the backbench mps, meaning you can no longer be a member of the tory party. That could be their argument, but i think therell be lots of tory unhappy that they are and they are making their feelings known this evening. Thank you very much, vicki. As you can see in the house of commons at the moment, they are dividing for a vote on the third reading of this bill to take no deal off the table. They are still halfway through that so we will move on and bring you the result of that as and when we get it. Joining me now is stephen bush, Political Editor at the new statesman and olivia utley Deputy Editor at the article. I want to explore the motion coming later this evening, the general election motion that borisjohnson will put forward. Such confusion within the labour party today as to what their policy on this will be. Seems to me that they were saying they would not have an election until after 31 october, so we can be absolutely sure there is no deal is taken off the table, in the Leaders Office seems to contradict him . The leaders view seems to be that you should ensure that no deal is stopped and simply allow the bill to be passed into law. 0nce stopped and simply allow the bill to be passed into law. Once that happens, you can have an election whenever in october because the statutory responsibility to seek an extension will exist anyway. That is also the view of s the view of many in the labour party right now is that what happens if you dont have that what happens if you dont have that extension. You could end up with no deal by mistake, and that is the root of the disagreement. But the root of the disagreement. But the real source of confusion here is the real source of confusion here is the Leaders Office believes they can turn around the polls as they did last election, and lit many labour mps fear they cant, and they are worried what happens if they go early. Quickly, one of the other issues they see with the delays as they could ultimately force Boris Johnson to request a delay that he has said he doesnt want to request. That is one of the ideas sputtering about. The s p has said they will back the selection, you dont need a two thirds majority to secure an election on a certain day. S in p. They love nothing more than having a fight with themselves. 0livia, when it comes to the election, if and when we get there as im sure we will, what is the conservative party going to put on its Party Manifesto . Will it say that ten days after the election, when theyve been focusing on a campaign up and down the country and not focusing wholly on the negotiation, that they will leave the European Union come what may . Yes, and the European Union come what may . Yes, and i think there are quite a lot of no deal people in the country who will support that. In a way, although the events of last night dont look good for boris at all, but they show the conservatives have an absolutely rock solid line on brexit, we are leaving to or die on 31 october. If boris brexit, we are leaving to or die on 310ctober. If borisjohnson can put across the message that he tried to get a deal and was blocked by parliament, then i think the support for no deal among levers will rise. We just dont know when that general election will be. There is some confusion over what happened at the Committee Stage proceedings this evening. Lets go back to vicky who can shed some light. evening. Lets go back to vicky who can shed some light. I told you that Stephen Kinnocks amendment to the bill, which says that any delay to brexit, the extension of three months from october to january, must be used to past a Withdrawal Agreement. That has gone through. We thought it might have been by mistake, but we think now from sources ive been speaking to that the government has done it deliberately. They have deliberately allowed this to go through. Now what it does is it means if he wanted to use that time to hold another referendum, then that can no longer happen. What sources are saying to me, and these are people who are in favour of this bill, they say it is an irritant but not a disaster. It doesnt make too much difference. So i think those labour mps who want a second referendum would still vote for this, but this is government tactics now, we think they have to liberally done this, they deliberately didnt get people to the point where they have to count the point where they have to count the votes going through, the so called tellers. They deliberately didnt put them there and unexpectedly, Stephen Kinnocks amendment goes through, and i think this is all to disrupt. We have seen lots of this from downing street, and if you keep watching the pattern of trying to keep their opponents guessing, this falls into this category. If viewers are scratching their heads, should i remind them that this is as much an education for us as it is for them . Let me make sure i understand what youre saying. Youre saying that effectively, given that theyve allowed the space for the Withdrawal Agreement to be debated again in the three month period up to 31 january, that effectively takes any debate for a second referendum off the table . I think so if it is in law. Someone said that if you think about it, a three month delay to brexit would not be enough anyway for a second referendum. So bear that in mind, thats why some in labour have a tory side that agree with this bill saying it is an irritant. The other suggestion was that this now goes through the house of lords, and if they wanted to unpick it there, that takes time and it would have to come back to the commons. That is not what they will do, they will leave it there in the bill because what it still does is still means that the Prime Minister has to go to the eu to ask for a delay to brexit. So the bottom line, if you like, of not leaving without a deal at the end of october that bill would still now do that. But its another tactical move by downing street which is taking everyone by surprise. Fascinating, and taking no deal off the table is the business of the bill. Thank you for the moment. Steven and olivia are still with me. You cant take no deal off the table indefinitely, can you . Lets say for arguments sake, the European Union grants and 83 month extension, do you think Boris Johnson could when when election . No deal is the table. The onus is to put something on the table. You can put something on the table. You can put revocation on it, you could put a negotiated agreement on it. You can put off them moment of decision, but no deal is the table. If Boris Johnson wins a majority, no deal is back on the table. If time passes, no deal is back on the table. Quite extraordinary today that only six weeks into a borisjohnsons premiership, he was asking whether he was resigning. I suppose as we we re he was resigning. I suppose as we were talking earlier, the interesting thing about this is borisjohnson and interesting thing about this is Boris Johnson and his government might resign in order to trigger a general election. You might think thatis general election. You might think that is the easiest way to do it because then Jeremy Corbyn would presumably go to the queen and the queen would ask ifJeremy Corbyn could form a government. He would say yes, be unable to form a government, then have a general election. It is a weird situation. The thing that six weeks in, it might be in the Prime Ministers best interest to resign. Nicholas turgeon Nicholas Turgeon was almost goading them into calling and election. The snp is feeling pretty buoyant right now. Does this worry labour that they may be wiped off the map and scotland . labour that they may be wiped off the map and scotland . I think they will regardless. I think what sturgeon is doing there is standing up sturgeon is doing there is standing up to these bad tories in london and labour all over the place. Who can you vote for that a strong . Me. That message will be incredibly powerful in the next election. It is a gamble for borisjohnson because in spite land in scotland, the lib dems researching, he has to win seats in the north in labour constituencies. And as we saw in the 2016 general election, a lot of the seats in the labour heartland are so solidly labour, even if the conservatives make huge inroads, winning them is difficult. Lots of tory target seats in the labour heartlands in 2016 17. He took huge chunks out of the labour vote but they didnt win them. And in this election, Boris Johnson wont have the support of lib dems orany liberal johnson wont have the support of lib dems or any liberal tories. So he will be losing seats. Seats in the southwest of london or the southwest. It is a massive gamble for borisjohnson. At southwest. It is a massive gamble for Boris Johnson. At this southwest. It is a massive gamble for borisjohnson. At this point, what else can you do . From the democratic perspective, a general election is the only way to let some air in the parliaments awful atmosphere, and it doesnt seem to be the only solution. One of the encouraging things for lib dems lets listen. The ayes to the right 327. The noes to the left 299. The ayes to the right 327. The noes to the left 299. The ayes have it, the ayes have it. On lock. 0rder, point of order. And thank you very much, mr speaker. The house has spoken this evening. And if the other place passes the bill, then i say to the Prime Minister that this house expects him to uphold the law and fulfil the obligations that will be placed on him by this bill and prevent this country from leaving the European Union on 310ctober without a deal. May also, mr speaker, thank the clerks for their assistance, the right honourable gentlemen for dorset west, and the others for their great help. May alsojoin my others for their great help. May also join my routable friend, others for their great help. May alsojoin my routable friend, the memberfor alsojoin my routable friend, the member for hogan alsojoin my routable friend, the memberfor hogan and alsojoin my routable friend, the member for hogan and saint pancras, and most warmly applauding the bravery and courage of many on that side of the house who have stood by their convictions in the national interest. Point of order, mr Stephen Kinnock. Thank you, mr speaker. Given the house has now approved the bill as amended, could i press the government as rapidly as possible to publish the Withdrawal Agreement bill, which really does require the proper and robust discussion in this place . The honourable gentlemen has made his own point in his own way. And it is on the record, and we are indebted to him. Division motion to move forward. As many as are of the opinion, say aye. To the contrary, no. Opinion, say aye. To the contrary, no. The ayes have it, the ayes have it. We now have information on the parliamentary general election. I called the Prime Minister. Thank you, mr speaker. Well the house of commons has passed a bill devised by the leader of the opposition, who i see is not in his place. He is characteristically evasive, mr speaker. It is a bill that effectively ends the negotiations, a bill that demands an extension at least until next year, and perhaps for many more years to come, a bill that insists britain acquiesced to the demands of brussels enhanced control to our partners. It is a bill designed to overturn the biggest democratic vote in our history, the 2016 referendum. And it is therefore a bill without precedent in the history of this house. Seeking as it does to force the Prime Minister with a pre drafted letter to surrender in international negotiations. And i refuse to do this, mr speaker. And it is clear that there is therefore only one way forward for the country. The house has voted repeatedly to leave the eu, and yet it has also voted repeatedly to delay actually leaving. It has voted for negotiations, and today im afraid it has voted to stop, to scupper any serious negotiations. What this bill means is that parliament, or the right honourable gentlemen, the leader of the opposition, who is still not in his place, mr speaker opposition, who is still not in his place, mrspeaker i opposition, who is still not in his place, mr speaker i really dont know where he is. He refuses to give battle or at least to engage in arguments tonight, perhaps that is a sign of how he intends to proceed things in the weeks to come. Booing. The right honourable gentlemens bill the right honourable gentlemens bill im glad hes now favoured the house with his presence, mr speaker. They right honourable gentlemens bill, amongst its other functions, is to take away the right of this country to how long it stands in the eu, and hinted that power to the eu. And im afraid its time thats what it does, and im afraid its time for this country to decide whether that is right. The country must now decide whether the leader of the opposition or i go to those negotiations in brussels on 17 october to sort this out. Because everybody will know that if the right honourable gentlemen were to go there, were to be the Prime Minister, he would beg for an extension, he would accept whatever brussels demands, and we would then have years more dither and delay, yet more arguments over brexit, and no resolution to the uncertainty that currently bid devils this country and our economy. And eve ryo ne country and our economy. And everyone knows by contrast that if i am Prime Minister, i will go to brussels and try to get a deal and believe me, i know that i can get a deal. Mr speaker, if believe me, i know that i can get a deal. Mrspeaker, if they believe me, i know that i can get a deal. Mr speaker, if they wont do a deal, and i think it would be eminently sensible for them to do so, as eminently sensible for them to do so, as i say that i believe that they will, than any under circumstances, this country will leave the eu on 31 october. Mr speaker, it is completely impossible for government to function if the house of commons refuses to pass anything that the government proposes. And in my view and the view of this government, there must now be an election on tuesday, 15 october, and i invite the right honourable gentlemen to respond to decide which of us goes as Prime Minister to that crucial council on thursday, 17 october. I think it is very sad that mps have voted like this. Booing. Ido,i this. Booing. I do, ithink this. Booing. I do, i think it is a great dereliction of the democratic duties, mr speaker. But if am still Prime Minister after 15 october, then we believe on 31 october, then we believe on 31 october with i hope a much better deal. The leader of the opposition now has a question to answer. He has demanded an election for two years while blocking brexit. He said only two days ago that he would support an election. And now, parliament having passed a bill that destroys the ability of government to negotiate, is he now going to say that the public cannot be allowed an election to decide which of us sorts out this mess . I dont want an election, the public dont want an election, the public dont want an election, the public dont want an election, the country doesnt want an election. But this house has left no other option than letting the public decide who they want as Prime Minister, and i commend this motion to the house. Order, the question is that there shall be an early parliamentary general election. I call the leader of the opposition, mrJeremy Corbyn. Thank you, mr speaker. This is the second time ive replied to a conservative Prime Minister seeking to dissolve parliament to call an election because they didnt have a deliverable brexit policy. Although im not condemning the right honourable member for maidenhead by comparing her to honourable member for maidenhead by comparing herto her honourable member for maidenhead by comparing her to her successor, she at least made detailed speeches setting out her brexit policy even if we fundamentally disagreed with them. This Prime Minister claimed she has a strategy, but he cant tell us what it is. The bigger problem for him is that he hasnt told the eu but it is either. And at Prime Minister question its time today, he was unable to say whether he has made any proposals whatsoever to the eu. And it is basically a policy that is cloaked in mystery, like the emperors new clothes there really is absolutely nothing there. And the naked truth is that there. And the naked truth is that the reality is deeply unpalatable, a disastrous no deal brexit to take us into the arms of a trade deal with donald trump that will put America First and britain a distant second. The Prime Minister knows there is no mandate for no deal, no majority support within the country, and no majority for it in this house. The chancellor of the dutch of lancaster, the co convene or of the Vote Leave Campaign said in march this year, we didnt vote to leave without a deal. Even the leaders of the leave campaign are absolutely clear that the referendum confirmed no mandate for no deal. No deal. No deal is opposed by every business group, industry body, trade union, and by this house as todays vote and by this house as todays vote and others have shown. Mr speaker, we want an election so we look forward to trumping this government out cheering. Does the leader of the opposition wa nt does the leader of the opposition want a general election . A yes or no will suffice. While he obviously didnt hear but ijust said. I was about to point out before i was gently interrupted by the honourable member that the offer of the election today is a bit like the offer of an apple to snow white and the wicked queen. Because what hes offering is not an apple or even an election, but the poison of a no deal. So, mr speaker, i repeat what isaid deal. So, mr speaker, i repeat what i said last night let this bill pass and gain royal assent. Then we will back an election so we do not crash out with a no