Possibility of new deal being there. Some mps would like to remove that option. Lets bring in christian again. We have heard warning from the bank of england, the office for budget responsibility, saying a no deal would be disastrous for the dish economy. Boys it force johnson would be disastrous for the dish economy. Boys it forcejohnson and his supporters say thats a risk worth taking why is it that Boris Johnson says . They point to some of the comments from once you get through some of the mess in the short and medium term, longer term the opportunities for the british economy will be there. That is a debate that will form part of a general Election Campaign. Is it good for the uk economy or is it not . Ijust good for the uk economy or is it not . I just want to pick good for the uk economy or is it not . Ijust want to pick up on what youre seeing about the speaker because we should mention again, this is totally unprecedented what is happening tonight. What do you make of that that if there was a general election, they would try and get rid of the speaker . Unprecedented been very much in keeping with the guerrilla warfare betweenjohn bercow keeping with the guerrilla warfare between john bercow and the conservative party. When i was there, they were consistent moves trying to unseat him. It is not surprising, although it is very unusual. A constitutional outrage, he called the decision to prorogue parliament. Supposed to be neutral. The thing thatjohn bercow parliament. Supposed to be neutral. The thing that john bercow always says is he just wants to give the house of commons always and he will always facilitate where he think there is a he will allow that to be expressed. In terms of replacing him, the question is who gets it . And can there be any guarantees that they will be less of a troublemaker in the eyes of perhaps some of the brexiteers than schoenberg cow has been . You are right in saying today has been unprecedented. Thenjohn be rcow has been unprecedented. Thenjohn bercow has been . Something has substance of this taking control the order paper, when usually itsjust about having a debate, its a big innovation that will have effects for a long time to come. It is the job of the speaker to facilitate the debate within parliament. Yes. Which is what hes doing. It feels very one sided at the moment, unfortunately. The problem with moving so aggressively against him is there is evidential we then move into a type of speaker who is very political like they have in the us, andi political like they have in the us, and i think that would be a big mistake for a and i think that would be a big mistake fora uk and i think that would be a big mistake for a uk perspective. But could you say we have already gone there . You can argue this is about brexit but he could also argue this about minority government. There we re about minority government. There were such a divided government, the ability for backbenchers to cause trouble is far greater than it is if youre sat on a 60 seat majority. In some ways, it is hard to say whether thatis some ways, it is hard to say whether that is about his political views or. Stay with us. His political views or. Stay with us. The chamber starting to fill up. What are you hearing, vickie young . Some on the opposition side are probably pretty confident about winning this vote tonight. Something similar last time around, its greeks threw on a majority ofjust one. Since then, of course commit or have been a number of conservatives sacked from the cabinet. Many of them have been making their voices known today. The former chancellor philip hammond, all of them say theyre willing to rebel against the government on this because they dont file no deal is right for the country, so they want to bring in this new law to delay brexit to get into the end ofjanuary if no deal has got to prominent. A lot of today has got to prominent. A lot of today has been about a lot of mps, seeking assurance from the Prime Minister he is serious about getting a deal, a new deal, with the eu, with brussels, and some other have not been convinced by that. Lets look at the date has been for Boris Johnson. He has lost an mp to the liberal democrats, is working majority. It looks like he may well lose this vote tonight and this is the First Parliamentary vote he is faced as Prime Minister. Ready difficult start in palm entry terms for borisjohnson. It does seem to be quite a contrast, where it was the case he was not having to come to parliament. He was able to maybe to parliament. He was able to maybe to dominate things in the agenda other bit more and that doesnt seem to be happening for him today. Could a difficult moment and a big question how will he react . He made it very clear on downing street yesterday, he feels taking no deal brexit off the table this way undermines his position with the eu. He will not do it. He would prefer, in that case, you have a general election. How he gets to that, though, could be more intriguing. |j am though, could be more intriguing. am reading a tweet from our colleague, iain watson, that the labour leadership will block a general election if it is a time of Boris Johnsons general election if it is a time of borisjohnsons choosing. How can he get there was blue he can trying get two thirds of mps to vote for how does he get there . He can try and get two thirds of mps to vote for it. Brought in by the conservative liberal democrat coalition, it ties the hands of a Prime Minister. Normally, if you got to a stage where a governing party has lost its majority, you are in this kind of circumstance, you would think the Prime Minister could call an election. He can put down a motion calling for one. He needs two thirds of mps to vote for it. If labour will not go along with that, it is tricky for him to get through that route. There are other options. He can take it three short bill. He can say regardless of that act him the next date of the election will be october 14, which is his preference. That would only need a simple majority. That would be easier. Talking to emily thornberry, i put it to her that for two years, the labour leadership have been going for a general election. She said borisjohnson cannot for a general election. She said Boris Johnson cannot be trusted for a general election. She said borisjohnson cannot be trusted even if it was put in mother the next election date is the 14th of october, she said she did not trust him to somehow go back on that. I dont know how he could do that but thatis dont know how he could do that but that is what she is saying at this point. It will be interesting to speak to the snp, who might be more in favour of a general election, and it could be possible the snp to go along with that. We will have to wait and see and see how the government reacts tonight if this vote is passed. We are waiting for the tellers to reappear, just waiting for the vote on this standing order. Just expand to us while we wait, important reviewers just joining while we wait, important reviewers justjoining us to understand that this is purely a vote to take hold of the order paper tomorrow, isnt it . This is not the legislation that would prevent no deal. It . This is not the legislation that would prevent nodeal. Thats right. First of all, they have to take this step, which is highly unusual. The same thing happened to theresa may. She was forced to ask for a delay to brexit, which she did, so they have done it before and i think the point is if they can get this through tonight, it means those numbers would be there tomorrow to get the bill through. Theyre hoping to get it through in one day, which is very unusual, to rush through the various stages that there are to get a bill through parliament and make it law of the other thing which is tricky is they have to get it through the house of lords, and i wasjust speaking to a peer in the house of lords, who says people there, friends and allies of Boris Johnson, have tabled 90 amendments that would have tabled 90 amendments that would have to be considered. Thats have a listen to the result. Investigate the delay in the ayes lobby that is a delay there in the voting of the lobby, which has happened before, possibly because it is so crowded and the vote is very tight. You are talking about with the lords, vicki, what with the votes amount to . The suspicion among some opposition peers is his attempt to filibuster. That is to spend some much talking about the bill that they run out of time, and dont forget there is this deadline. Here we go. Heres the result. Order the ayes to the right, 328. The noes to the left, 301. Order the ayes to the right, 328. The noes to the left, 301. The ayes have it, the ayes have it. Unlock. The government defeated, Boris Johnsons first defeat. A majority of 27 for the ayes side, which means tomorrow, they will have control of the order paper. Here is borisjohnson. Control of the order paper. Here is Boris Johnson. No doubt, mr speaker, about the concert was as of this vote tonight. It means that parliament is on the brink of wrecking any deal that we might be able. Tomorrows bill would hand control of the negotiations to the you macro, and that would be more did there, that would be more delay and more confusion and the eu itself could keep dominic decide itself. Decide itself. I dont want an election for the public dont want an election. I dont believe the right honourable gentleman once an election. If the houseboats for this bill tomorrow, the public have to choose who goes to brussels on a tober 27 don mike choose who goes to brussels on a tober 27 don mike on october 27. Everybody knows if the right honourable determined is the right honourable determined is the person to go to brussels, he will beg for an extension. You will accept whatever brussels demands and well have years more stomach or if this government is in charge, if i go to brussels. I will get a deal. We will leave anyway we will leave a nyway we will leave anyway we will leave anyway on a tober 31. The people of this country will have to choose, mr speaker. October 31. This country will have to choose, mr speaker. October31. Crowds this country will have to choose, mr speaker. October 31. Crowds of supporters outside calling for. I dont want an election but if mps vote tomorrow to stop negotiations and to compel another pointless delay to brexit, potentially for yea rs, delay to brexit, potentially for years, then that will be the only way to resolve this and i can confirm that we are tonight tabling a motion under the fixed term parliaments. Thank you. Point of order, jeremy corbyn. Mr speaker, on a point of order, i welcome tonights vote. We live in a parliamentary democracy. We do not have a presidency but a Prime Minister. Prime ministers govern with a consent of the house of commons, representing the people in whom the sovereignty rests. There is iio whom the sovereignty rests. There is no consent, there is no consent in this house to leave the European Union without a deal. There is no majority for no deal in the country. Asl majority for no deal in the country. As i have said before, if the Prime Minister has the confidence in his brexit policy, when he has one he can put forward, he should put it before the people in a public vote. And so, he wants to table a motion for a general election. Fine. And so, he wants to table a motion fora general election. Fine. If the bill through first, in order to prevent, in order, in order to take ano prevent, in order, in order to take a no deal off the table order point of order order dont be rude order isay point of order order dont be rude order i say to the chancellor of the duchy that when he turns up at our Childrens School as a parent, he is a very well behaved fellow. He wouldnt dare behave like that in front of them and neither would i. Dontjust to kill it. Dont write. Be a good boy, young man be a good boy point of order, mr Ian Blackford yes, we know the theatrics, perfected the micro not interested be quiet point of order, mr Ian Blackford expect mr i have to say i have to say. The shouting from the conservative backside to heaven only knows. This Prime Minister has a 100 record in losing those in the house of commons. From the conservative side. Perhaps you might consider acting like a Prime Minister should do. Respect to the vote. Respect to the vote which has taken place in this house tonight. Let us have a bill tomorrow. This house can express its opinion that it wishes to remove no deal is an option. Dont give us this nonsense of a fa nta sy dont give us this nonsense of a fantasy that there is a deal to come from the government. It is simply not true. The government must respect the sovereignty of the house of parliament, must allow the bill to be enacted, must allow it to have royal assent and, yes, let us have an election but let us have an election that respects the democracy of this house and the desire of parliamentarians have that we do not crash out on a no deal basis. Parliamentarians have that we do not crash out on a nodeal basis. Point of order. On a point of order, across the country, people have been protesting because they are worried. They are worried about the Prime Minister riding roughshod over our parliamentary democracy, and tonight, the house of commons has spoken and said that we will not let that happen. It is vital, much as i relish the opportunity to take on the Prime Minister in a general election. It is vital that this house acts with responsibility and does not take our country into an election as a point where there is any risk that we will crash out of the European Union during that Election Campaign or immediately after. We must act responsibly. Point of order. I am not going to be shouted down, especially by any man. Mr speaker, tonights what made even the leader of the house setup. Laughter this parliament has spoken, and we have spoken on behalf of the jobs and livelihoods and futures of our constituents. Yet again we have shown that we do not want a no deal brexit, and tomorrow, we have the opportunity to make sure that yet again we do not crash out without a deal. And i would remind the Prime Minister, as one of the so called leaders of campaign, he promised the people of this country that we would not leave the European Union without a deal. I think this house now has a right to know the following. The rumour is that every Single Member of the conservative party who voted against their government tonight is going to have in the whip withdrawn from them. Mr speaker, if that is the case, that must be the first time and it would involve honourable and right honourable members who have served their party, and many would say their country, for decades. Could the Prime Minister confirm, will they have the whip withdrawn, yes or no . We need to adjudicate that debate across the house, but the right honourable lady has made her own point in her own way, their own customary force, and it is on the record. If there are no further points of order, the clerk will now proceed to read the orders of the day. Not moved thank you. Order. We proceed from that piece of business. That you have it come if you are just business. That you have it come if you arejustjoining us, the government has lost tonights vote 328 01. Government has lost tonights vote 328 01. Boris johnson government has lost tonights vote 328 01. Borisjohnson said parliament is on the break of wrecking the negotiation into more did there, delay and confusion. Jeremy corbyn, on a point of order, said he welcome tonights vote. There is a majority, he says, for no deal in the country. I can say his supporters out here, largely momentum supporters, cried out with somejoy when that momentum supporters, cried out with some joy when that result came through and there were cries of, 0h, through and there were cries of, oh, jeremy corbyn, familiar from the Election Campaign in 2017. It does not seem likejeremy corbyn will vote for an election until the vote is set. Lets pick up a little bit of that with laura trott, and. Boris johnsons first defeat, as expected. It might not necessarily lead immediately to a general election. Absolute. What corbyn agreed to is he would not vote for a general election until the bill which guaranteed that there would be no deal had passed. Just wait for me at the moment because vicki young is in the lobby. And she has Andrea Leadsom with her. The business secretary with me. With inc. It is. Let us speak to Andrea Leadsom. Quite a big defeat for the Prime Minister in his First Parliamentary vote. It is incredibly disappointing. Jeremy corbyn is just demonstrating him he is determined to stop brexit at any pass. I really did hope some of my college would realise that if they vote for this bill tomorrow, they vote for this bill tomorrow, they are just taking away the Prime Ministers negotiating and some of my colleagues. He has been quite clear. We are hopeful, getting a renegotiated deal the polemic and vote on before the end of october, but this would remove that negotiating hand. A lot of your collea g u es negotiating hand. A lot of your colleagues went to see the Prime Minister today, wanting reassurance he was trying seriously to get a new deal and they were not reassured by it. They said there was no negotiating team, no new offers on the table from the uk. He is not serious about that, is he . That is not true. All i have seen, as business secretary, attending brexit preparations, there is no doubt that the effort to get a deal is souped up the effort to get a deal is souped up dramatically and also that we are seeing some european leaders starting to change their minds and it isa starting to change their minds and it is a negotiation. The Prime Minister has been clear that cannot be held in the public domain. For labour to effectively coming out, trying to stop brexit, what theyre trying to stop brexit, what theyre trying to stop brexit, what theyre trying to do, it would put control into the eus cans. They say it would be an extension to the end of january, stop a no deal brexit. Would be an extension to the end of january, stop a nodeal brexit. This is not true. This is labour trying to surrender to the eu, being is not true. This is labour trying to surrenderto the eu, being in charge of when we get to leave the eu. It is actually appalling and unacceptable. What about the suggestion considered and the suggestion considered mps would be dropped out. Is Boris Johnson really going to throw out the grandson of Winston Churchill . Is that the way to unite the party . Clearly, my real hope is colleagues will reflect overnight and. Do they have another chance . Absolutely they have another chance . Absolutely they do, and i hope colleagues will give the Prime Minister that negotiating hand so we all get a deal we want to see before the 315t of october for the problem with this bill as it removes that negotiating hand. The eu have been quite clear they want to see what prominent is going to do. If they want to take no deal off the table, there is nothing the eu will negotiate on. Colleagues, i urge them to reconsider overnight. Andrea leadsom come and take you very much indeed there. The view there from the government, on that defeat tonight, First Parliament tree vote. He is already lost an mp. Dr philip lee. As we heard, he wants an election. Is he going to get it. Is he going to get it . Yes, we want in general election. What we have done tonight, i am very proud of. We wa nt done tonight, i am very proud of. We want the opportunity to take no deal off the table. We need to make sure that the bill to take no deal off the table on the 315t of october is given royal assent and needs to be scheduled. We do that first and lets have an election. What the government is trained to do is bounce us into an election and ignore the will of parliament. That is not acceptable. Parliament is giving an instruction to the government that they must go to the European Council meeting on the 17th of october and make sure that we do not fallout of the European Union on ano not fallout of the European Union on a no deal basis, something that would be so damaging to our economy. Evenif would be so damaging to our economy. Even if that bill got royal assent, you then approve election on the 14th of october, there is a chance borisjohnson wins thats. He can come back and change the law back again. But we need to do is go out to the people, and im quite happy god to the people to go back to the people of scotland. It is up to other parties in england and wales and Northern Ireland to put the case of remaining in the European Union, and thats what were doing in scotland, and im convinced we will in that case. Ultimately, if the re st of in that case. Ultimately, if the rest of the European Union chooses to leave the European Union, that is a choice the rest of the United Kingdom can make. They cannot drag scotland into that. We will stand up for the interests of scotland. Yes, we will work with others, but a primary interest is the people and interest of scotland. You and others in the liberal democrats are open about the fact you want to stay in the eu. This bill is about making sure we dont crash out on a no deal basis. Yes we want to make sure the people of scotland, who voted by a heavy majority to stay in the European Union, our rights are respected. I absolute the understand it is up to politicians in england and wales and Northern Ireland to argue the case for remaining. What is the point of another delay, a pointless today, says Forrest Johnson . There is a risk to jobs, to medicines says borisjohnson. We need to make a solution for this. We can go to the people and we can make sure that we put that case that we should not be leaving on a no deal basis. Parliamentarians are not going to be able to break this impasse. We either have an election orair referendum. Impasse. We either have an election or air referendum. Can that be achieved, because you all want Different Things . Not everyone in the labour party wants another referendum. I think there is a case there is the anonymity of the labour party in the last while. It is a redoubtable that is the case. There isa very redoubtable that is the case. There is a very strong opposition the scottish people want to remain. Is a very strong opposition the scottish people want to remainm blackford, vicki very much indeed. The view there from the snp en blackford, thank you very much indeed. Vicki young in the lobby, think you very much for that early reaction if you are justjoining think you very much for that early reaction if you arejustjoining us. Borisjohnson has suffered his first defeat. The vote in the end, 328 against 301. That was a defeat of 27 we are told that that came about because there were 21 conservative rebels, who may well now be threatened with expulsion from the party, and suggestions that already a chief whip is beginning to remove the whip from those who voted against the government. What does that all mean . Tomorrow, the so called Rebel Alliance will have control of parliamentary business, the legislation to stop no deal will be presented to the commons. All sorts of immense coming forward, so certainly something to watch, and that separate motion from the Prime Minister for a that separate motion from the Prime Ministerfor a general that separate motion from the Prime Minister for a general election. That separate motion from the Prime Ministerfor a general election. You are watching bbc news. Still with me here is laura trott, former adviser to david cameron. Talking justin hardy went to vicki. Just talking before to vicki. He made a promise to the Rebel Alliance, they would get the bill through which stop say no deal brexit before agreeing to any general election. There is also the matter of the date. Jeremy corbyn and the labour party are worried if they agree to a general election, borisjohnson rectory push that puts brexit to me that brexit would happen while a general election was taking place. Saying that