Welcome to hardtalk, im stephen sackur. The human preoccupation with sex is nothing new, but the internet has made it so much easier to explore and exploit every shade of desire. The online porn industry makes billions of dollars in profit every year, but the big winners are corporate players, not the women and men performing the sex acts. My guest today is mia khalifa. She was briefly a porn actress, garnering worldwide notoriety when she appeared in a sex video wearing the islamic hijab. After years of threats and insecurity, shes speaking out. What does her story tell us about the porn industry and 21st century culture . Mia khalifa, welcome to hardtalk. Thank you for having me. By thank you for having me. By many measures, you are a very famous woman. For instance, you have more than 16 million followers on instagram. But the origins of your fame lie in your brief involvement in the porn industry. Is that hard for you to deal with . Absolutely. After i left, i deleted my. I didnt delete my instagram, it got hacked by isis sympathisers and propaganda was posted all over it so instagram took it down and i didnt create another for another year until i decided to kind of accepted my fate as the infamous former porn star and try to change the narrative. So i recreated an Instagram Account and tried to for lack of a better term become an influencer. Because if you put your name, as indeed i have done researching this, put your name into google. Researching this, put your name into google. On researching this, put your name into google. On the researching this, put your name into google. On the work network . Well, it was work. But the point is you get these countless links to videos. The word porn star appears immediately. That is something that you will never, ever overcome, however much. First of all, thats rude. Im trying to. I understand that. I dont mean to say you want into b but its the way technology, the internet, works. Yeah. Im not very google friendly and im trying to change that. One of the first things that comes up is the site that i dont own or control but where the home page is written in the first person like im the one running it. On my wikipedia edits posted as my official website. Weve tried countless times to take it down, including taking legal action, but the company wont hear anything and weve made them countless offers. Lets go through this step by step. How did a girl who was brought by her parents to the United States from lebanese, your home country, schooled in the United States. Clearly smart, went to university in texas and read history. How did you get involved with the sex porn industry . I dont think low self esteem discriminates against anyone. Doesnt matter if you come from a great family or if you come from a great family or if you come from a great family or if you come from a not so great background. I struggled my entire childhood with weight and i neverfelt struggled my entire childhood with weight and i never felt attractive 01 weight and i never felt attractive or where the of male attention, and suddenly my first year of college i start losing all this weight from making small changes. By the time i graduated, i was ready to make a bigger difference. Ifelt graduated, i was ready to make a bigger difference. I felt extremely self conscious about my breast, because that was the first thing to go when i lost all the weight. I lost about 50 lb, i dont know how many kilos all stones that is. Its a very big amount of maid, it changed your body. My biggest insecurity was my breasts, i wanted to more or less go back to what they were. When i did that i started garnering all this attention from men andi garnering all this attention from men and i was garnering all this attention from men and i was never garnering all this attention from men and i was never used to it and i felt like unless i held onto it and kind of did what was asked of me or what was expected of me it would go away. After feeling what it was like, that validation and the complements for the first time, i did not want that to go away. You were spotted, i think, there you were, a young graduate and wanting to find a job and you were spotted ona to find a job and you were spotted on a street by a guy who said i can work with you, and clearly he opened up work with you, and clearly he opened up and said its the porn business. What was it in you that far from running away was drawn into it . What was it in you that far from running away was drawn into mm wasnt. Thats not running away was drawn into mm wasnt. Thats not how it was, it wasnt, hey, do you want to come and do porn . It was more your beautiful, would you like to do some modelling . You have a great body, i think you would be great with nude modelling, things like that. When i came into the studio, it was very respectable. A gorgeous location in miami, de rail, florida. It was clean, eve ryo ne de rail, florida. It was clean, everyone who worked there was a nice. All of their cubicles were decorated with family photos. It was nothing dodgy or made me uncomfortable. The first time i went in wasnt the first time i filmed porn. Porn movie. It was the second time. The first time was more so second time. The first time was more so do you want to do this, like, sign the paperwork, et cetera et cetera. You have since talked about people who prey on callow young women. Im wondering as we talk about it now whether you feel a sense of victimhood, whether you look back at your younger self, obviously now youre 26 but this is when you were 21, do you look at that 21 year old and feel she was used, she was very much a victim . I feel she didnt have the tools to identify she was being taken advantage of and what she was being told was lies. May be not so much lies but trying to manipulate me to do what they wanted me to do. I dont really see myself asa me to do. I dont really see myself as a victim. I dont that word. I did make my own decisions, even though they were terrible decisions. I think that something needs to change in the way women are approached, if even they are approached. It is an industry, and it is a multibillion dollar industry, but at the heart of it are young people, men and women, asked to and agreed to perform sex acts in front of a camera. How much control, agency, did you have in the process of making those videos, which we now know has been viewed hundreds of billions of times . Very little. Other than kind of saying yes, no to one outfit or the other. Very little say on what was filmed. The theme of it, content, where its filmed, its not really up where its filmed, its not really up to you. Consent would seem to me as an outsider would be a fundamental principle. If they ask you to perform a particular sex act you absolutely did not want to do. No, they cant force you, no, absolutely not. Youve talked interestingly in the recent past about the mindset you had when you were performing in the sex videos. You said that you sort of blacked out and now you look back you cant actually remember very clearly a lot of the things you did. Try and explain to me what was going on in your head as you got deeper into this industry . I think that the word i couldnt quite grasp when i said that would be adrenaline. I think my adrenaline was so be adrenaline. I think my adrenaline was so high because i knew what i was so high because i knew what i was doing was beyond anything i ever thought that i would do, or anything that i could have imagined doing. So adrenaline was through the roof. Makes it hard to look back and remember exactly what happened and the things that transpired. Do you find it difficult talking about it now . A little bit, yeah. I understand that. Do you think it made a difference . Im genuinely asking, youre of arab heritage, your parents are from lebanese. Im from lebanese, i was born and raised there. You are arab and arab culture is deeply conservative on the whole. Do you think that was an extra layer you had to peel away as you got involved in this business . Probably. I think a part of it was also rebellion and wanting to do something so out of bounds and so out of character that i shocked even myself. I guess this is a very stupid question but of course your family had no clue as to what you were doing . No, and they disowned me when they did, when they found out. Did they . Yes. That must have been terribly hard. It was. I felt com pletely terribly hard. It was. I felt completely alienated by not only what was around me but my family. When i quit, when i was still alone, i left and i when i quit, when i was still alone, i leftand i mean i when i quit, when i was still alone, i left and i mean ijust realised some mistakes arent forgivable. But time heals all wounds and things are Getting Better now. Things are changing . Yes. I want to ask you about the mechanics of the industry in one other way and that is power, authority, money. First of all, weve talked about men and women being performers in this business but were there any women in positions of authority and control that you worked with . Absolutely, one of the closest person i worked with was a female. Very nice, respectful, professional. A lot of the female people were in the back office, on the tech side, sales. I asked her, how did you find this job, how do you apply for a job like this . Word of mouth, through a friend. The financial side of it is extraordinary too. After you made the video that i want to talk about ina the video that i want to talk about in a moment, which involved you wearing the islamic dress, the hijab, you for a time where the number one most popular porn actress on pornhub, which is this aggregator website for porn that is wildly popular throughout the world it seems, and you were getting hundreds of millions of views. And yet despite out in the porn world stardom, you were paid a grand total for all the 12 sex videos you were made, you were paid a grand total of 12,000 us dollars, and yet you made millions and millions of dollars for both bang bros, the company you worked with, and pornhub, the aggregating site. How could that be . Thats how it is. Im not the only one singled out, its not like i had a terrible contract or a terrible manager. A terrible contract or a terrible manager. I didnt have a manager 01 manager. I didnt have a manager oran manager. I didnt have a manager or an agent. No advisors at all . And you were 21, barely out of childhood frankly. The human brain doesnt fully develop until the age of 20 25. The Decision Making part of my brain still needed forming. There was no one to tell me what to do or to say this is wrong. This is the nature of the porn business, you make a video and it lives forever online and the more popular it gets, the more hits it gets and this isnt just in the us, many of your videos we re just in the us, many of your videos were popular in the middle east. The most popular in the middle east. This is interesting in itself. And they were the ones tweeting Death Threats at me. Well get to that in a moment but with the finances, however popular you became, number one star in the business, you had no residuals or rights to get recompense for your popularity . None whatsoever. To this day is that the way porn contracts work for everyone . Everyone, male, female, eve ryo ne everyone . Everyone, male, female, everyone who comes in. We have to get through this one particular notary s video you were involved in that i mentioned, which involved three young people, you were one of them, wearing the islamic headscarf, often known as the hijab, and then it developed into a sex scene. You must have known how provocative that was . I verbatim told them you guys are going to get me killed. And they said . Theyjust laughed. Why didnt you then say im not doing it. Intimidation, i was scared. I you then say im not doing it. Intimidation, iwas scared. I knew that if i said no it would. You know, theyre not going to force you to do it. At that point thats rate. No ones going to force you to have sex. But i was still scared. Have you ever felt scared too. Not scared, but nervous to speak up and Say Something at a restaurant where the food isnt right and the waiter comes by and says how is everything . I was intimidated, i was nervous. What youre saying is the concept of consent is sought of meaningless in the power dynamic between the men mostly who are controlling the porn industry and a young 21 year old actress such as yourself . Absolutely. When theres four white male producers in the room and they Say Something like that to them and they all just Say Something like that to them and they alljust laugh. Say Something Like that to them and they all just laugh. Its Say Something like that to them and they alljust laugh. Its kind of devastating and it makes you not wa nt to devastating and it makes you not want to speak up and say anything again. Its the same way when you sign your contract you have the president and the ceo of the company co sitting in the room with you waiting for you to read it and when youre reading it youre not comprehending everything thats happening because youre so nervous because people are staring at you. When you walked out of that filming area at the end of that particular video film, did you in your heart know its going to be a disaster for you . The adrenaline was still very high but immediately after as was released it shattered my entire world. The reason i thought it was 0k world. The reason i thought it was okfor me world. The reason i thought it was ok for me to do on this because i thought no one would ever find out about it. The lens of girls found themselves having sex and do things like that and no one knows the name. No one knows as they are, no one recognises them so, i wanted to do it as my dirty little secret but it will be no face. It really did. From the point of view of the filmmakers and the aggregators, it was a triumph. They got hundreds of millions of years, straightaway. Call me lightning and a bottle. But the reality of forgiveness at your face is now known throughout the world as the porn star who wore hijab. And you got threats. Oh, yes. Im not going to say isis because i think anyone heavily involved in isis. They photoshopped a picture of me on to someone isis. They photoshopped a picture of me on to someone getting beheaded and they said, i dont know exactly what they said that the said something along the lines of, you are next. I cannot imagine how lonely must have felt at the right because you couldnt discuss that with your family. Of course you couldnt. No, it was terrifying but my crabby neck mechanism is humour so my response was, as i my crabby neck mechanism is humour so my response was, as i was my crabby neck mechanism is humour so my response was, as i was not cut off my boots, they were expensive. Your 21 is old. You just said to me that was in my life was sort of ruined. But here you see it, were five years later. How much personal responsibility do you feel you have to ta ke responsibility do you feel you have to take what you did . 10096. I made the decision. Granted, the industry is flawed and we need to do something to protect other girls from falling into the same trap that idid, but from falling into the same trap that i did, but at the end of the day it was my choice. In terms of getting out of the business, one that went viral, that video on your face was just so well known and associated with something so provocative and you are receiving threats, was a very quick decision for you to say, no more . I wouldnt say very quick because i was still nervous, i didnt know how they would react to it, i actually called them all in to a meeting about a month later and sat them down and i had a Resignation Letter waiting in front of every single one of their chairs andi of every single one of their chairs and i spoke to them about my feelings and they try to convince me to stay and they told me this will all blow over and that i am overreacting and that im exaggerating about the level of peril that im in. Exaggerating about the level of perilthat im in. At exaggerating about the level of peril that im in. At that exaggerating about the level of perilthat im in. At that point exaggerating about the level of peril that im in. At that point did you have to have some sort of security, did you move out of your own apartment . I moved out of my apartment are ready but thats because someone apartment are ready but thats because someone took a screenshot of the google maps location of my apartment was. So these guys, they saw you as a money machine. Absolutely. But you still had their advisors, you had a lawyer, you had no, nothing. What 21yearold has a lawyer or a retainer . No, nothing. What 21yearold has a la er or a retainer . Im no, nothing. What 21yearold has a lawyer or a retainer . Im just try to get my head around how stressful this would have been but even though now, is it is supposed and a lot of trainers pass and you bejohn, do you think there is some sort of post Traumatic Stress that is in you from this experience . Yes. And i think it kicks in most want to go out in public because the stairs i get, ifeel out in public because the stairs i get, i feel that people can seek in my clothes and it brings me deep shame. It makes me feel like. It makes you feel like i lost or right to my privacy. She did, because i am on google social way. Yes, and thus make those images, you cannot expunge. You have no right even though its deeply personal to you, you have no right to remove them from anybodys view around the world. This isnt, from anybodys view around the world this isnt, the stories your story but its a story of other porn at his and actresses. Your story but its a story of other porn at his and actresseslj your story but its a story of other porn at his and actresses. I am mrs arden seeing that recently after the interview came out and people started reaching out and all the e mails, my manager checks them and when he gets things like that he filters them and sends them to me and reading the words of some of these girls who have been sex trafficked and forced into porn and all of the stories of girls whose lives have been ruined by men who have taken lives have been ruined by men who have ta ken advantage lives have been ruined by men who have taken advantage of them are contracts that they didnt even understand the jargon of, it makes me feel like maybe it was good i started talking and i posted this interview is an as started speaking out. Other people be in for same way and even though they dont relate as deeper level is doing porn, they can relate the level of being insecure and being pressured into doing something they didnt want to do. You have chosen to speak out in a way that very few people in the porn industry ever do for all sorts of reasons which i guess a very obvious but you have a platform now in a way because youve leveraged what was if we said, notoriety, into a different, fame, you are trying to move into different businesses as well. But in terms of looking back and wanting to be a campaigner and activist, if you do, as a part of your mission to change the way society sees pornography and deals with it, and treats people in that industry . Everyone watches pond. Have you ever wash pond in your entire life . In my entire life, i have wash pond. See, what is your change is the way women are brought into porn. With the change and being able to approach them, maggots are only women can seek it and set of being pressured into it, or make it so you cant force them to sign a contract to so you cant force them to sign a contract to be, rather on the spot, it has to be looked over by a lawyer and if thats too extreme, maybe they have to take a few days to think about it and read it over at home in their own time before they sign it. But we interview a lot of people and many of them are middle aged or older, its great to have someone whos only 26 years old, there is a school of thought which says that our culture as a whole, not just the which says that our culture as a whole, notjust the United States of the uk but many countries, is being subject to porn and young people are so exposed to pornography, some youngin so exposed to pornography, some young in the lives that it is materially changing the way males and females relate to each other, the way they think about relationships, in a potentially very corrosive, damaging way. What is your take on that . Of course it affects relationships. Porn addiction is very prevalent in america and im sure here too. Things that men seen the videos they expect from women in the lives and thats not reality. No one is going to be that perfect, no one is going to be that perfect, no one is going to do those acts on a wednesday night with the person they love. Weve talked a lot and i know it has been difficult for you, obvious is difficult for you to accept that still online there are so many images of you engaged in your brief porn career. But as it proved possible for you to move on from that, to form a different kind of career and indeed to forge could distract relationships with people far beyond the notion your lunch was involved in. I was lucky to meet a man that never heard of me which was fantastic stop i ended up having to tell him about it but he told me after we started talking, i googled you because you have 5 million followers and id be crazy not to google you. But it was very hard to measure date after anna dont think it was hard for me to date because it was hard for me to date because it was hard to find a man, it was ha rd to it was hard to find a man, it was hard to find somebody who wasnt into it. Does that make sense . Hard to find somebody who wasnt into it. Does that make sense7m does make sense. The bottom line is you never wanted to be famous venue upon stock, it was the last thing you want to. You wanted to be a secret but now it seems youre embracing being famous. This, and i get a lot of hate from female performers who said that i am ungrateful for it but it was never what i asked for. And if you could speak to the 21 year old mia khalifa walking down the street in florida who stopped by the guy who said youre beautiful, your lovely, i can work with you, what you her to do today . Does mace in your purse for a reason, use it. Run. There is mace. Temperament, its been a pleasure having you on our talk stop imia pleasure having you on our talk stop i mia khalifa. Hello there. This week is set to bring some pretty big changes in our weather. Theres something cooler on the way, something a bit more unsettled as well. But the weekend brought a real burst of heat. Sundays temperatures got all the way up to 33 degrees just to the west of london. That heat being drawn up from the near continent around this area of high pressure. The south easterly winds affecting most parts of the british isles, it was a bit different and the west though, the air starting to come in from the atlantic, a cooler source of air, that cooler atlantic air will make more inroads over the next couple of days, firstly behind this little weather front here, things will turn a bit cooler. This, a big dangling weather front in the atlantic will eventually bring some much cooler air for all of us around the middle of the week. So, those temperatures gradually, slowly but surely, dipping away, will be a slow process, though, particularly in the east. And with that change well see some outbreaks of rain and perhaps some thunderstorms for a time. Through monday morning, some quite poor visibility, and mix of mist and murk, and low cloud, some fog patches too, especially through wales, the west midlands, north west england, south west scotland. And it is a bank holiday for most, but if you are travelling early, bearthat in mind. That should clear, then we see some long spells of sunshine again, the odd shower in the afr south west, some rain and the strengthening breeze across the western isles, and generally it will be a cooler day in scotland, northern ireland, the western side of england and wales. Further east though, in the sunshine, it could again get to 32 or 33 degrees. Now a lot of dry weather and clear skies to take us through monday night into the early hours of tuesday, there is the ongoing chance of a shower across the south west, maybe up into wales as well. Theres temperatures over night between 11 and 17 degrees. So for tuesday this frontal system which would eventually, remember, bring that cooler air, will just store out to west, not making a lot of progress eastwards, so we will see plenty of dry weather, some spells of sunshine but the increasing chance that well see some showers breaking out and thunderstorms, too. Some of which could be heavy. The heats increasingly getting squashed eastwards, could still get to 31, 32 degrees in the south east, but it will be cooler futher west, and well see some rain later in the day into northern ireland. Now, during tuesday night a scattering of showers and thunderstorms looks likely to push across the british isles, quite hit and miss but some of these storms could bring a lot of rain. And then as we get into wednesday, that front which will have been lingering out to the west for a couple of days will finally make its move. It slides eastwards, it takes some rain with it, and were all left with some cooler, fresher weather by the time we get to thursday. Some wet weather, too, particularly in the north west. Know its going to be a disaster for you . Im Sharanjit Leyl in singapore. The Headlines Police in hong kong fire a warning shot as they battle with protesters in another weekend of violent skirmishes. Whats extraordinary is that despite volley after volley of tear gas and rubber bullets, the protesters show no sign of backing down. The Iranian Foreign minister makes an unexpected appearance at the g7 summit in france, but theres little sign its reduced tensions between iran and the us. Im rico hizon in london. Also in the programme tens of thousands of Rohingya Refugees demand justice two years after fleeing myanmars brutal military offensive. And adventurers with driving ambition,