Transcripts For BBCNEWS Victoria Derbyshire 20240714

Now on bbc news, Victoria Derbyshire the week in review. Hello and welcome. Over the next half hour well show you some of the highlights from our programme in the last week. First, in exclusive interviews, we spoke to a dad whose child is a suspected victim of nursery worker Vanessa George. We also heard from one of georges ex colleagues. Vanessa george is a convicted paedophile who abused babies and Young Children in her care at the little teds nursery in plymouth. George is due to be released from prison next month after serving ten years behind bars. She pleaded guilty to seven sexual assaults on children. The father, whose child went to the nursery, tells us hes disgusted shes being released and hed kill george if he ever met her and hes urged her to finally reveal the identities of those children she abused. Shes one of the uks worst paedophiles. Vanessa george was a nursery assistant at little teds Vanessa George was a nursery assistant at little teds nursery in plymouth, where instead of caring for the children, she abused them in the worst possible way. Its torn my family apart. Its torn the community apart. Every day is a living nightmare. People would jump in saying, they must have heard those children scream. Why did they do nothing . We all felt, how did we not know . Even hardened journalists were shocked at the sheer audacity and wickedness of the sexual depravation. Some of the families sobbed and swore when they heard that george could be freed from jail in seven years. I know one day the question is going to come. My child is going to ask the question about whether they went to the nursery, and i dont know what im going to tell them. In a matter of weeks, Vanessa George is due to be released. Feelings are running high ahead of Vanessa George coming out of prison. For the first time ever, one of Vanessa Georges colleagues from the nursery wants to speak out, alongside the father of one of the suspected victims. Their names and voices have been changed to protect their identity. I want to ask you, simon, why as a parent of a child who was at the nursery a decade ago, why you want to speak out nowjust ahead of Vanessa Georges release from jail . I dont think she should be released. No ones asked the parents what theyre feeling. Well, theyve asked seven sets of parents, by the sound of it. Ten years is not enough for what shes done. Shes been rehabilitated. Weve had nothing. We were promised help from day one. We havent received anything. The only way weve got where we are is through us contacting people. Weve been forgotten. Its disgusting. Shes Getting Better treatment than we are. What do you recall feeling when it became clear that shed been sexually abusing babies, Young Children in the nursery where you worked, and recording the images and sending them to another paedophile . We as workers were close to the children. You know, some were there most days. You were very protective of them but youve let them down. Youve let yourselves down. Everything we were taught about safeguarding. And she fooled us all. People think you, because you worked in the same nursery as Vanessa George, must have known something. Yeah. We were cold shouldered or stared at and made uncomfortable. People would jump in, saying they must have heard those children scream, why did they do nothing . We all felt, how did we not know . Every Single Member of staff. How can you learn from something you didnt know was happening . I dont feel any wiser now than what i did then. Police found 124 sexual images of the children on her phone. Their faces werent shown and she has still never named any of her victims. Effectively she would be in a toilet cubicle, changing a baby or a child with her back blocking the doorway. Is that right . Did you see her doing that . Yes, i had seen her doing that. I think her sheer size would have blocked the view more than anything else. It didnt look suspicious because it was a deep window ledge and you could comfortably do that, but you wouldnt have seen past her body, really. No one could have known. The only people who could have known were her little ring. Vanessa george wasnt acting alone. A married mum of two with no history of abuse, she started sending images to colin blanchard, a paedophile she met on the internet. Angela allen was also sending photos to blanchard. Both women claim they were manipulated by him into abusing children. All three were jailed. Simon, your child was at the nursery when Vanessa George works there. A decade on, how would you say your child is . Ive kept my child shielded from everything. But i know one day the question is going to come. My child is going to ask the question about whether they went to the nursery and i dont know what im going to tell them. After the abuse was discovered, the mums and dads were called to a meeting at a church hall. They split the parents into two rooms, a room where the child was unlikely to have been abused, a room where their child was, could potentially have been abused, which seems the most extraordinary brutal and crude way of doing things. You ended up in the room where your child was likely to have been abused. Do you remember, simon, how you reacted then . The way they told us was just disgusting. Youve one group of parents overjoyed, rightly so, and then you have the other lot, myself included, whove just had their hearts ripped out. I was angry, so angry. Do you know for sure, even now ten years on, whether your child was sexually abused by Vanessa George . No, no names have ever been released. Do you want to know with absolute certainty . Yes. Why . Id rather hear bad news than no news so i can deal with it. Whats your instinct, simon . I think my child was. You said the days coming when your child will ask if they went to that nursery. Have you thought about what you would say, if, when that day comes . Yeah. Ill explain what happened at the nursery and say no one knows, but id rather tell my child what happened and explain. Does that then not potentially give your child years of torment . All my child has to do is look at the local reports. Vanessa george is all over youtube as well. Have you ever considered that you might say to your child, you went there, you werent abused . I have. But. I dont want to lie to my child in case it ever comes out. If i dont tell them, and someone else does, they could lose trust in me. According to the serious case review by the plymouth safeguarding children board, Vanessa George talked at work in the nursery about sex a lot. She talked about affairs shed had, she was having despite being married with children, she made explicit sexual references in her conversations. They were described as, that was normal. I know there was a reference in the serious case review that that should have been a flag. I dont know how youd go from being someone wanting men to someone wanting children. She would show colleagues in the nursery images on her phone of mens penises. Yeah. Obviously not in front of the children. But it doesnt matter. Its not what youre there for. Nobody was interested. Vanessa just treated it all as a big joke. Now i look back and i think, was the joke on us . Did you challenge her . Did you report her . I challenged her direct, as i know other staff did. When i saw another member of staff really disturbed and upset, i took it to the supervisor. And she spoke to vanessa. I still dont think it really sunk in that it was a big deal to her. She thought it was a game and a joke. What do you think about the fact that she was doing that in that loo, in that nursery . The chances she must have took. I think she gave that phone to a parent to look at a picture once at the end of the day. If that parent had swiped one way or the other through the photos, what would they have seen . Did she live on the edge and that was her thrill . I dont know. Lets talk about the sentence she was given. A sentence that meant she had to serve a minimum of seven years injail. She served almost ten. The parole board say that the reason shes being released now is because shes not a risk to the public anymore. She took part in programmes to address her sexual offending behaviour. She has, as they put it, presented as showing remorse for what she did. And all the professional witnesses recommended she be released. 0ur sentence is still carrying on. The only time shes feigned remorse was in that first interview. I believe that woman is still a danger to children. Shes had those urges before. I dont think they will ever go away. I think theres a very, very strong possibility she could do it again. Is there anything about the conditions that are attached to her release that reassures you . She wont be able to work with children again. She will have to live at an approved address. She cant use social media, her movements, her contacts will be restricted. She may have to live elsewhere. She wont be given a new identity but reports suggest that she has changed her name. She has divorced from her husband. Does any of that reassure you . Some would say its better she does come out and come back here. Some would say its better she comes out and comes back to devon and cornwall . Why . Shell be dealt with. Would that be the right thing to do, in your opinion . I wouldnt care. I wouldnt care for her life at all. Someones going to bump into her and recognise her. Its going to happen to her eventually and someones going to get a longer sentence that she did. If i was to bump into her, id kill her. Seriously . Yeah. We have a Justice System which allows people, which punishes people for doing heinous things and which allows them, once they have served their sentence, to try to rehabilitate and continue with a life. If you had to sum up what she did, and the devastation she has caused, what would you say . I hope we never see anything like this ever again, ever. Its torn my family apart. Its torn the community apart. Every day is a living nightmare. What would you say to her, simon, if you were able to talk to her, face to face . Tell us the truth. Tell us the names. And if you have been affected by any of the issues in that report and would like some advice, do visit the bbc action line website, bbc. Co. Uk . Actionline. Next, the family of a 12 Year Old Girl who lost her life injune after drowning in a river in Greater Manchester told this programme this week they believe institutional racism within the police force is why they are no closer to finding out what led to her death. I have been speaking to shukri abdis mother, zam zam ture, and her nephew, who helped to translate for shukris mum who speaks little english. We were also joined by the familys lawyer, attiq malik. Before we hear from them, here is a reminder about what we know about what happened to the 12 year old. Shukri abdi came to the uk two and a half years ago with her mother and siblings. They were fleeing conflict in somalia. Her mum reported her missing at the end of a hot day in late june. The 12 year old was found unresponsive in the river irwell in bury. She had drowned. Her parents say she could not swim and would not have gone into the river. Greater Manchester Police investigated and call the case a tragic accident. But the family question how the police could have come to that conclusion so quickly. The police watchdog, the iopc, is investigating Greater Manchester polices handling of the case. The school shukri abdi went to is reviewing its anti bullying policy. I want to ask you, zam zam, first of all, as shukris mother, what the last few weeks have been like for you and your family . Everyone have a difficult time. She has been in a lot of pain and its been difficult for her. And can you tell our audience about shukri . What was she like . She speaks in own language shukri was a sweet, young girl that, you know, she used to be playful and happy, but at the same time she was, you know, a bit grown over, as well, her age cos she used to help out a lot with her mum. Tell us about shukris time at school. What was that like for her . She speaks in own language she was happy when she first started going to school from year six and then year seven no audio translation available she was happy when she first started going to school from year six and then year seven and she was making a lot of friends and, you know, she wasjust enjoying her time going to school and everything. But in the last year, i believe you say that shukri was bullied. And did you report it to the school . Do you believe the school knew what was going on with her . Yes, they definitely knew. Because you reported it . Many times, yeah. Many times. In a Statement Released on the schools website following shukris death, broad 0ak Sports College said it would be reviewing all policies and procedures at the school. In particular, they say, we will focus on the schools anti bullying policy and procedures and other policies relating to the welfare of children. So what is the familys view of the report that the school have done . In summary one word describes it whitewash. Conclusion of the report, essentially, just said that they were not aware of any bullying, and it is quite concerning because, from the outset, the family had been informed that zam zam would be interviewed for this. And one is, look at the full context of this. The family are a family of refugees. Theyve come to this country from a warzone, only been in this country for three years, and like it or not, there is a lack of education, communication issues here. And to fully and effectively investigate, this common sense tells you that you would need to interview the mother to see what were the contact points in the school, what was the nature of those contact points, who do they speak to . And the irony of it is this was actually a suggestion by the school themselves. What are your concerns about the Greater Manchester Police Investigation into shukris death . She said, you know, from the beginning when her daughter was missing for 30 minutes, she rang the police to report her daughter missing because it was totally out of character for her not to come home. And then, after ten hours, when they when they actually told her that her daughter was found in a river, you know, she said she knew that her daughter would notjust go swimming, she knows her daughter especially when fully clothed. And plus she had to go to madrasa after she had an exam in madrasa. So she knew her daughter wouldnt do that. She was normally. Her daughter, she comes home straightaway from school shed been doing that every day. So you, as the family, do not believe the Police Account, which is that shukri drowned and it was a tragic accident . We dont know exactly what happened at the river, but we know shukri very well and we know that she would not. And we know her character. It is so out of character for shukri to go near anything that scares her. Shukri is the kind of girl that if she is scared of a dog, sees a dog, shell cross the road. Shes not the kind of girl to. Like, shes not brave to try new things or do new things. Attiq malik, to say that the family doesnt believe the Police Account of what happened with the explanation, as mustaf has just said, because shukri couldnt swim, she wouldnt get in the water in full dress. And they said its a hot day, but the shukris come from africa, you know . How can it be hot for her to go in a river . Shes come from africa. Its, like, 30 degrees hotter there than it was that day. So they said, oh, its a hot day, so we advise people not to go in the river. Its a big thing for a family to say they simply dont believe the Police Account. What evidence do you have that it was anything other than a tragic accident . The fact of the matter is this. When a family is going through a difficult point like this, they expect support and full investigation responses by all the authorities around him. Around them. And in this case, when something so serious has happened and the police have turned around and within hours published a press release saying that there is no suspicious circumstances, that alone caused alarm bells. And then, following that, they have now changed their position and said, we are still investigating. And so if this was nothing more than a tragic accident, the question is, what are you investigating . Do you believe that you have been treated differently by Greater Manchester police because you are refugees . Of course. Why . She speaks in own language she goes, well, she doesnt believe it no audio translation available she goes, well, she doesnt believe it because, especially with the communication and. Cos she cannot get out everything she wants to say. Do you believe theyve treated you differently because they are institutionally racist . She goes, yeah. And whats your view, as the family lawyer . Across the country, there are often complaints from members of the bame communities of the police not giving their concerns due weight. And in this situation, the family have seen how the police treat deaths. To turn around so quickly and do a public press release saying, we do not believe is anything wrong, they familys Firm Position is that they have only been treated in that way because of their race, and that had it been a different racial background, they may not have been treated that way, that more sensitivity probably would have been given, a more thorough investigation would have been done. And so that is their complaint and that is what the iopc are now investigating. Yeah. What do you, as the familys lawyer, want to happen next . We want the truth. We want the full investigation done every, single possible avenue explored by the police, so that the family can be satisfied that nothing more could be done. And proper weight and consideration given to all of their concerns and notjust swept under the carpet. Finally, millions of you have watched our interview with the delightful Liverpool Fan who knocked himself unconscious on a lamp post while chasing mo salahs car. He told us he was gobsmacked to have been visited by his idol. 11 year old louis fowler and his ten year old brother, isaac, were trying to get the liverpool strikers attention as he was driving out of the clubs training base. The hospital said that i might have to get it reset in a couple of weeks. Really . Yes. It looks all right. Are you quite happy with it or do you want it reset . I do not know, to be honest. Whatever happens, i think it was worth meeting mo salah. Was it . But did it knock you out when you hit this lamp post . Briefly. Did it . Yeah. Were you there, isaac . Yeah, i was watching it, i was behind them. So what happened, describe it . Ok, i saw him fall over and hit the lamp post, and i ran over to mo salahs car to tell him what had happened, and then when i figured out that he could not stand up, i was dead scared. So mo salah came back around the corner a few minutes later, and then he came to louis, and he was like, why were you running like that . You could have hurt yourself dead bad. So, louis, from your point of view, this is at the Training Ground, is this right . Liverpool Training Ground . Yes. You see mo salah come out in his car, take the story up from there. Mo salah comes out in his car and sometimes they stop if you run after them, sometimes they stop anyway, so i ran with my brother, and in my excitement, i was not focusing on what was in front of me, i was looking to the left where mo salahs car was and i ran into a lamp post. I think mo salah felt bad and he pulled over, he was worried about me, and my brother, and someone i met called jose, he was friendly, they told mo salah that i could have injured myself and i am hurt on the floor, so thenjose carried me back to my house. We called an ambulance. We were not expecting mo salah at all. What happened . He knocks on the door or what . Mo salah came driving with his car to our close and we walked out of our garden and mo salah was really worried about me, and we got pictures. It was great, but it was also not the best because of my nose. Wow what do you think of mo salah . What car does he drive . A bentley. Does he . So the bentley went into your close . Yeah. What do you think of the fact that he came back, got out of his car, checked on you . I think that is really kind hearted of him. It is a great choice. I love him very much because he is amazing. Do you love him, isaac . Yeah. Joe, do you love him . He is a top guy, to be fair. I was so shocked when he came back, obviously. It might not be a big deal to some people, you have got to understand with these football players, they have cameras watching them, security, and all of a sudden mo has disappeared, they are probably panicking. It is a big thing for him to come back, he was really caring and compassionate towards the boys and he made their day so a big thank you to him and everyone at liverpool. They are great with the kids when they wait outside, which is most days. They are so great and mo is a top guy. That is it for this week, do send us your stories. Send us an e mail. We are back live, monday morning at 10 00am on bbc two, the bbc news channel, and online. See you then. Hello there. Showers are going to feature in the Weather Forecast over the next few days across scotland, Northern Ireland and the far north of england. Why . Because we are closest here to an area of low pressure that is spinning its way around. Southwards an of cloud, and waving its way around this threatens to bring rain across Southern Coasts of england before turning across south east england and could see more general rain here. Over the next few hours, showers widespread across wales and South West England as well. A breezy sunday. The rest of sunday if we do see some rain start across the day, it will clear away quickly but the showers across wales and South West England will spread eastwards with time. No one is immune from seeing a downpour or two but the majority of showers working further north working their way across scotland, across Northern Ireland and into parts of england, the north west of wales too. Cooler in the north. Temperatures not too bad in the south. Thats your weather. Good morning, welcome to breakfast with rogerjohnson and victoria fritz. 0ur headlines today as ten people remain in custody over the death of pc andrew harper, the home secretary says more needs to be done to support families of Police Officers injured or killed on duty. Official warnings of food and fuel shortages after a no deal brexit have been leaked as borisjohnson prepares to visit paris and berlin for talks. Its the final day of the second ashes test, and any result is still possible after a day of wickets and huge scare at lords for steve smith, the australian batsmen hit on the neck byjofra archer