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Transcripts For BBCNEWS Addicted To Gambling - Panorama 20240714

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And we ask are the betting companies doing enough to protect problem gamblers . Its not about our dead boys. Its about the living ones now, stopping this happening to other people. Tony is addicted to gambling. After more than 20 years of betting, he knows he can no longer walk into a bookies without losing control. If i was to walk in, my heart would beat faster, i know it. What do you think when you see shops like that . See a william hill shop like that . Yeah. I spent half a Million Pounds in three months in cash, sometimes doing 50, 60 grand a day. A day, tony . A shop like that. Tony has lost everything to his addiction. He gambled away the family home, leaving his wife and daughter homeless. There was no feelings, thoughts, consideration, remorse, understanding of my actions. Ijust wanted to continue and continue and continue. And i thought of no one else. All i wanted to do was gamble. And that is why im a a pathological gambler. In 2010 tony had tried to make a fresh start in dubai. He set up a property business. But he started betting online, gambling on everything from horses to roulette. He stole £3 million from clients and lost it all to uk gambling companies. What were you doing to get money to gamble . Id committed fraud. I manipulated people. Borrowing anything. Anything and everything. So youd been stealing millions . Millions. The majority of tonys gambling was with ladbrokes. The company should have been checking where the money was coming from. But ladbrokes didnt seem bothered. I got a text saying, um, along the lines of they had a responsibility, to ask me the provenance of my funds that i was gambling with. And then theyjust said, dont worry about it mate. Dont worry about it, mate. That was it. Sorry for the intrusion. Tony got help and managed to stop gambling two years ago. Hes now trying to help others quit too. So today were going to go to prison as part of gamblers anonymous. Uh, we visit inmates in there who are struggling with gambling addiction. Some of them may have committed criminal offences to fund gambling addiction. Tony has admitted his crimes to the regulator, the Gambling Commission. He knows hes responsible, but he thinks the betting companies should have done more to stop him too. They took stolen cash without any serious checks. I dont really wanna go to jail, but ill face that punishment. These companies have faced zero, zero so far, for any of my activity with them. Zero. Ladbrokes says it has not profited because it has fully divested any sums which could be the proceeds of crime. And it has co operated with its regulator in this regard. The government says problem gamblers like tony are a small minority. Around 0. 7 of the population is thought to be addicted. Thats approximately 430,000 people. But there could be many more. Even the academics who came up with the figure think it understates the problem. So i dont really think we know enough about problem gamblers in the uk, or about the level of gambling related harms that are generated from gambling in the uk. In terms of the number of problem gamblers, we think thats a conservative estimate. That also doesnt tell us how many new cases there are every year. One thing is certain britain is gambling more than ever before. The amount we lose to betting companies has almost doubled in the past decade. Last year, it was £14. 5 billion. Please, gamble responsibly. There are 24 million gamblers in the uk, but we recognise that not all of those people are just enjoying gambling, some of those people are finding that gambling is a source of concern. And ourjob is to minimise the risk of people getting into difficulties from gambling, whilst recognising that a significant proportion of people do enjoy gambling. One reason we are betting more is advertising. There used to be strict restrictions on betting ads. But that changed just over a decade ago. Now were targeted all day long. The ads have helped attract new punters to new forms of gambling. Gambling is much more prolific today than it was say 15, 20 years ago, and mainly thats due to the development of Online Gambling, and the technology that underpins Online Gambling because that has then produced new forms of betting that we just didnt have previously. The uk now has the largest Online Gambling market in the world. These games attract people who would never set foot in a bookies. Amanda is 61 and doesnt want to be identified. In just a few years, she lost everything to an Online Gambling company jackpotjoy. I think in the early days i probably would spend up to, um dont know, between five and 10,000. Maybe a week, sometimes it was a night five and 10,000 a night . Mmm. I was in a complete sort of lost bubble world, as i say it was, to me it wasjust an escapism and i would just sit online and i would just be pressing the button on my computer. Amanda says she couldnt stop. All her money from the sale of her home went straight to jackpot joy between april and june you can see how much id actually deposited. Is that £179,000 . Is that right . And thenjune is £345,000 . Am i reading that right . Yeah. 0k. Theres no decimal points. Theres no commas. When herfather died, amanda inherited a share of his house. And she gambled that away too. In total, amanda lost £633,000 on jackpotjoy. She placed her last bet on the day she was made bankrupt. Its horrific what ive done to myself really. Everything that id worked for, everything that my, my children were you know, looked up to me and now ive blown their inheritance as such. Jackpotjoy says it had frequent and personal engagement with amanda and encouraged her to use responsible gambling tools. These included the use of deposit limits, cooling off periods and alternative withdrawal methods. But experts say that these types of online games are designed to keep you playing. I definitely feel a bit of an urgency. You just kind of want to keep going like that. They give punters the sensation that theyre winning even when theyre not. So this is a good example, weve just won 10p there. So the spin cost us 20p, weve won 10p, so overall weve lost 10p. But the same audio and the same visual feedback is given to you as if youd won 50p. High stakes betting machines have been banned from the high street. But there are no legal limits online. If were playing 20 lines, um, and weve gone up to, to £10 per line, were going to be playing £200 per spin. You have seen how quickly they go through. And if theyre all losses when the, those spins take what, one second, one and a half seconds, its only a matter of seconds and you can lose hundreds of pounds. The regulator has recently fined jackpotjoy £1. 2 million for other cases. But it says theres no need for online stakes to be limited. Weve not yet reached a point where we would impose stakes or limit some prizes because the information that the operators have available to them means that they ought to be able to keep players safe, to keep players playing with money they can afford to play with, and allow them to play in a way that is keeping them from becoming at risk of problem gambling. Tony had stolen the cash he used to gamble. As part of his recovery from addiction he had to tell his victims what hed done. I knew it wouldnt be good and i got a train to go and face one of them victims hoping that they would end it, hoping id get a bullet in my head. Praying for it to happen cos i couldnt do it myself. You wanted them to put a bullet in your head . Yeah. I wanted it over. That pain to just stop. Ladbrokes has refunded some money. But tony wants the other companies to give the stolen cash back to his victims. The victims include friends like jake thomas, who lost around £100,000. Tonys new addiction now is to get his victims money back, and from what, from what i understand, he is a dog with a bone and hes calling the Gambling Commission twice a day, emailing them. Hes relentless with them. This is the first time that jake has seen tonys gambling history. On some days there are pages of transactions. And each page has dozens of bets. Lets take 2nd november 2015. Now that activity alone is a lot of trades. And i presume theres more. Wow. 12, 13, 14, even im getting dizzy. 20 and still the 2nd of november. Sheet three. How does anyone have time to do this . I can see just youve become very agitated, tony . I hate looking at it. I hate i hate it. I do, i hate it. Im looking at, like, the balances. An addiction, a compulsion like ive never seen in my life. This is a man with a problem. 28, 29, 30. Just get to the end of it. Just get to the end, just quickly whizz em through. Im on page 40 now, and its wow, its. Its not a cry for help from him, but it certainly should be a flag to someone on the other side of this and im, you know, i havent even finished, but that was page 40 on one day alone. It makes me feel sick looking at that. Sick. Agitated. Scary. And that was probably a normal day. Just a normal day. For some, the addiction can be too much to bear. Daniel clinkscales was a highly paid sales manager. But he took on two more jobs just to fund his gambling habit. Daniel was a really bold, outgoing, party animal, really extrovert. I think he found it so hard himself to really, really come to terms with the fact that there he was, clever, intelligent, largely successful at almost everything he turned his hand to. And hed got this, this one problem gambling. Daniel started gambling at 16. When he was 35, he took his own life here in bristol. We have to save other people going through this. And there are so many people out there, feeling hopeless and helpless. And i dont mean theyre all physically standing on the edge of a cliff like daniel was, but internally, mentally, emotionally, they are on the edge of a cliff. And ive got to s. Ive got to save them. Ive got to save some of them. Jo believes that betting companies have a responsibility to spot gamblers who are developing an addiction. I think its about switching the burden of responsibility. Taking it away from the individual and not saying you must stop when the fun stops. Because were talking about people here who dont have a stop mechanism. Gambling has been normalized, it has been made to look like something that everybody does innocently. Its not. You can lose your house in an afternoon. How serious does it have to be before people will act . The betting Companies Already have an obligation to protect problem gamblers. But the legislation is weak. Its up to the companies themselves to decide what action to take. It can be as little as ringing the gambler up. My challenge to the industry is how do you go beyond the minimum standards weve set and really achieve Better Outcomes for consumers by trying new measures, evaluating their effectiveness, building on what works, dropping what doesnt work in a way that really achieves reduction in problem gambling rates. Betting companies have to provide information about problem gambling. They should also offer gambling tools which players can use to set limits or exclude themselves entirely. The Companies Say they do intervene to protect gamblers. But the industry has a clear conflict of interest, as problem gamblers produce big profits. One study of online games found that just 4 of players contributed 78 of revenue. Do you think it makes sense to leave regulation up to the betting agencies . I dont think it makes sense to leave regulation to the betting agencies because you need to have confidence that people are actually adhering to regulations. We need to have the government taking responsibility and the companies absolutely need to take responsibility for their actions. Tony was making hundreds of bets a day and was spending thousands. It was clear he had a problem. But far from trying to stop him, ladbrokes laid out the red carpet to keep him gambling. Tony was made a vip customer. As well as weekly free cash, weekly free bonus chips in the casino, id get tickets to football matches, Business Class flights, hospitality at race meetings, hospitality at wembley stadium. They were really, sort of, treating you like a high roller, were they . Really big money, big spender. Yeah, vip, yeah. A vip client, i suppose. What do you think about it when you look at it now . When you think back to those days . It was just all fake, it wasnt real. It just wasnt real, and it wasnt good memories, looking back on it. Ladbrokes also gave tony the five star treatment at ascot. He tookjake, the friend he stole money from. I want to see what the hospitality is like. So, today, jake is taking me to ladbrokes vip box at ascot. Do you remember attending ascot with tony . Oh, yeah because he was obviously one of the favoured clients because of the amount of money he was losing. And for a guy like tony it wouldnt be about encouragement, it would be a reward, because they know hes gonna bet when hes in his bathroom, let alone when hes at ascot. Most people are simply here to enjoy the racing. We dont have permission to film in the hospitality area. But inside i can see how ladbrokes looks after its vip customers. Theres the finest of food and as much champagne as you can drink. Theres no doubt about it, ascot is a fantastic day out. Youre dressed in your best, youre enjoying the sunshine and youre watching the races. People are queueing up to place bets. But theres a darker reality for a few people who dont know when to stop. Problem gamblers are often joined by vip managers inside prestigious sporting events like this. Its the vip managers job to keep them betting. 0ne Industry Insider agreed to speak to us anonymously about how it works. The criteria is whos gonna lose money. And the more they meet the problem gambler type, the more money theyre going to lose, so theyre the guys we want. A vip managers job is to milk the customers. It might seem like a friendship but it isnt. Mug punters we called them, or idiots. Thats exactly how 61 year old amanda was treated by her vip managers. When she lost a lot of money onjackpotjoy, they would offer her free cash bonuses. And then shed start gambling again. If i hadnt gone online for a day, they were very quickly on the phone or sending me an email. Id always get a bonus. They never questioned whether i could actually afford to, spend 50 grand a night. All they did was sort of pat me on the back, and give me another bonus, and send me another gift. The calls kept coming, even when amandas father was seriously ill. When herfather died, the vip manager offered her condolences and then immediately gave amanda cash to carry on gambling. My dad had passed away and they basically said, you know, she said sorry to hear that and heres another bonus. And popped a bonus in my account. Jackpotjoy says its deeply sympathetic to the unfortunate personal circumstances experienced by amanda. It has always acted in accordance with the relevant regulatory requirements, which have significa ntly evolved since the time when amanda was playing regularly. Some companies have gone even further. Back in 2015, tony had managed to quit gambling for five months. But then his vip managers at ladbrokes put a total of £10,000 in his betting account. And tony cracked. I think i downed just close to 50 grand in 24 hours. I could have stopped maybe at the 50 and the 60, but then i always im going to get it back. Tony the gambler thinks, im going to get that back. After being tempted back by ladbrokes, tony lost control. In that year, i caused more destruction to notjust myself, to others, than in any of the years before that one year. Ladbrokes says the activity is historical and there have been corporate, operational and regulatory changes. Its policies and procedures have significantly improved and these circumstances would not arise today. Two months ago, the big betting Companies Announced they would provide £60 million a year to help problem gamblers. They say they are also working on a plan to minimise gambling related harm. But our evidence suggests punters are far from happy. Weve obtained new figures from the Gambling Commission about the number of complaints. In 2013, there were 169. Last year there were more than 8,000. Thats a rise of almost 5,000 . I can see that the number of complaints we get could suggest that the problem is increasing. I think its more complicated than that. We are pushing the industry to know its customers, and part of this is actually, possibly, a good sign because its suggesting that consumers are demanding more of the gambling operators. And i would encourage them to continue to do that. But those most affected by gambling Say Something has to change. Jo holloway has come to westminster with the Charity Gambling with lives. The members are all parents whose sons have taken their own lives. The group says that hundreds of suicides a year could be linked to gambling. One of the most astonishing things was, as we went round the room, and people telling the stories about their boys and what had happened to them, and it was like hearing your own childs story time and time again that they were all bright, cheerful, normal. Yes, they had their weakness which was gambling, but otherwise they were strong, popular, powerful young men. It was shocking just hearing the same story time and again. The families say lax regulation is resulting in serious harm. And that the government must do more to protect those at risk of gambling addiction. Its a sad, sad story and were just working like mad to try and get the whole story out. Its notjust about. Its not about our dead boys. Its not about our dead boys. Its about the living ones now, stopping this happening to other people. Daniel was my only child. I have, if you like, no one to do this for. Itsjust i know i have to stop this happening to somebody else. Around the country, hundreds of thousands of lives are being damaged by gambling. Tony has pleaded guilty to fraud over some of the money he stole to fund his addiction. Of course im nervous. Ive never been to jail, which is potentially what i could face, a custodial sentence today. Im gonna miss out potentially on days, months, years with my family but, you know, ive done something terrible, ive done a terrible crime so in some ways i know i should be punished. But whatever happens today, the line is drawn under this and i can actually move on. Cos i need closure. And today is closure. Whatever happens, its closure. Tony was given a suspended prison sentence earlier today. Hes free to continue helping other problem gamblers. Hes determined to stop more people like him from destroying their own lives. This is bbc news. Welcome if youre watching here in the uk, on pbs in america or around the globe. Im mike embley. Our top stories us democrats condemn israels decision to bar two congresswomen from entering the country, a move encouraged by president trump. Indias Prime Minister defends the decision to strip indian administered kashmir of its special status. Pakistan says three of its soldiers have been killed in fighting on the border. 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