Liberal democrats may only have 12 mps, but the party is on the up. Second in the recent European Elections, and even hitting 20 in the opinion polls, that is vince cables legacy, as the man at the top. So, could the next leader be a real player in the weeks and months ahead. First of all, ed davey, why is it. With these opening questions. Ed davey, why is it too soon for the liberal democrats to have a female leader . It is not too soon, but the liberal Democrat Members want the best person for thejob. Liberal Democrat Members want the best person for the job. I am a campaigner for diversity and i best person for the job. I am a campaignerfor diversity and i have done that in my party and i want it to be 50 50. But on the doorsteps people have been asking about the vision individual candidates have got. I have a sharper vision, whether it is tackling brexit or the causes of brexit, and that experience is bringing people over to my cause. You did say the liberal democrats as a Parliamentary Party needs to be less white and less male, so why not now . needs to be less white and less male, so why not now . I believe we need to be less male and less white and under my leadership and that is what we want and i want a 50 50 partnership. We have not had a good record on having an diverse set of members. If i was a leader, that would be one of my top priorities. You said recently that what gives you the edge on ed davey is you would get more Media Coverage as lib dem leader, why . I reach out on the media, if you look at programmes like question time, i am one of the most common guests for the liberal democrats. I can reach out to the new voters we need to reach out to. Millions of people in our country are crying out for a positive, liberal alternative to the frankly dismaying offer from borisjohnson andjeremy dismaying offer from borisjohnson and Jeremy Corbyn. I believe i can reach out across the country, the generations and Traditional Party lines. Why do you think you would be more visible, that you would get more visible, that you would get more coverage in the media . My track re cord more coverage in the media . My track record shows i already do. What i do in the media speaks for itself. What i do in the media speaks for itself. Well get on to some of the big issues in a moment. But, first, greg dawson can give us some context. Nick cleggs lib dems suffered devastating losses, withjust eight mps remaining in parliament. We made a pledge, we didnt stick to it. And for that i am sorry. Lets face it, thejob of lib dem leader has hardly been the most rewarding role in politics in recent years. I have found myself torn between living as a faithful christian, and serving as a political leader. The exotic spresm of leaving the European Union. The exotic spresm. But many in the party believe that is about to change. Cheering. After picking up 700 councillors in the local elections, they came second in the European Elections. A big reason for their success. Go brexit. The pa rtys unequivocal desire to remain in the eu. Their mantle as the main anti brexit party was briefly challenged by a fresh political rival, but they managed to turn it into a recruit opportunity. And i am absolutely delighted to be part of the liberal democrat team. What about the two people hoping to lead the party . Jo swinson has been involved with the lib dems since her student days. Here she is 20 years ago, making the case against tuition fees. This tax on learning is not acceptable. She became the uks youngest mp in 2005. Even blue peter wanted to talk to her. Is it a little bit Old Fashioned . It can be Old Fashioned at times. She served as business and equalities minister, but lost her seat in 2015, before returning two years later. More recently she made history by becoming the first mp to take her baby into a commons debate. Hello, im edward davey. Hi. Im the member of parliament for kingston and surbiton. Sir ed davey became a lib dem mp in 1997, after working in management consultancy. He was secretary of state for energy and Climate Change in the coalition, and a close confidante of nick clegg, before also losing his seat in 2015, and regaining it two years later. He says his experience as climate secretary has inspired him to prioritise a green agenda, should he become leader. Government, i had to fight the conservatives every day to make the case for wind power. With the lib dems reaching up to 20 of support in recent polls, whoever wins the contest could just tip the balance of power at the next general election. So, a little reminder of our two candidates and who they are. We will spend the first section of this programme talking about brexit. As you know, the liberal democrats are strongly remain party and you both wa nt strongly remain party and you both want a second referendum with remain as an option. What do you offer to people who want brexit to happen . think first of all we offer an honesty about our position. In the discussions i have had with leave voters, we disagree on the issue of brexit. I take the view that our best future is in the European Union andi best future is in the European Union and i have consistently held that position as has the party and we have been straightforward about that. Conversations i have had have started from that position of being able to disagree well with each other. But we should look at the drivers for why people voted to leave. It is complex and lots of people had different reasons, but people had different reasons, but people felt a legitimate sense of grievance in terms of their Economic Situation and being left behind in terms of inequality in our country. In terms of what we can do to transform our economy so in terms of what we can do to transform our economy so it works better for people and the planet, it isnt those policies and that sphere we can reconnect with those who voted to leave. As a leader of the liberal democrats, what would you offer people who voted to leave . We have to listen to the reason why people voted to leave. It is complicated, there is not one reason. What comes through a lot of research is they were fed up with london not listening to them, they felt left behind. Communities felt unequal, prosperity had not gone to their communities. I would like to use the billions that we would save by not leaving the European Union and investing it in those communities. I want us to bring transport infrastructure investment, give money to the local communities so give money to the local communities so they can decide how to spend it and we can make sure we heal the wounds of brexit and bring a divided country back together. Isabel. You are both supportive of a second referendum on eu membership but not on whether scotland should stay in the uk. Are you notjust picking and choosing the things you like and trying to block democracy on other matters . There is a difference between the independence referendum and the brexit referendum. First of all, the snp put forward a detailed idea of what they wanted it to look like, that was not done by the brexit site. And people who wanted to keep people together in the brexit referendum was much greater. In parliament there has been confusion even amongst the brexiteers, and that is why brexit has not happened. That is why it is more legitimate to have a peoples vote to decide that question. Also in scotland most people in scotland wa nt in scotland most people in scotland want scotland to be in the uk and the uk in the eu and that is the position of the liberal democrats. We are the only party advocating that position and standing up strongly for it. In brexit we are looking at a situation that has our country in crisis, in gridlock. A peoples vote would help to break the impasse. In the case of scotland it would add more chaos and uncertainty onto an already difficult situation. If the idea is to bring the country together, if it is about healing, which we hear from politicians across the political divide, do you accept a second referendum by its very nature is a recipe for division . Not necessarily. The country is divided now. It could make it worse. Brexit would make it worse because we would have much less money to help other communities and to tackle inequality. You are right we have to make sure in the rhetoric we use we are making sure we are reaching out to leave communities and leave voters. What has distressed me isnt the deep divisions in our country and asa the deep divisions in our country and as a remain supporter i would wa nt to and as a remain supporter i would want to use the rhetoric, the language and the campaign in the peoples vote to bring us together. One of the questions people would have in the second referendum is how you get there. Jack. How far would you get there. Jack. How far would you go in terms of working with other parties around the country . Could we see a remain alliance . Could we see a remain alliance . Could we see people stepping aside to make sure the best candidates are standing . We need to be open to all of that. We saw in the brecon by election where plaid cymru and the green party stood down because there was a better chance to win the seat from the conservatives. I was involved in the discussions between change uk and the green party to build a joint candidate and the top scot to an advanced level, but at the last minute they fell through. We are already working on those types of arrangements. If you have the threat of Boris Johnson and nigel farage working together, we need to be prepared to do this because it is about the national interest. It is not a normal election, this is about the shape and part of our country for generations to come. There is no difference between us on the remain alliance and the way we have to approach it. What i am putting forward is a way we can work cross Party Forward is a way we can work cross party now. We can have a National Government of unity and bring different sized together to stop brexit now. How would that work . You would probably have to have a vote of no confidence. The chancellor said today he would be prepared to back that. If we can get enough labour mps, prepared to back that. If we can get enough labourmps, and prepared to back that. If we can get enough labour mps, and i think there are 220, and add them to the other opposition mps, we would need about 30 or a0 tory mps and back the unity with the sole purpose of passing the vote. Is that pie in the sky . You will not get those numbers, you might get half a dozen. The other night when we were voting about the possibility of stopping boris sending mps home and Closing Parliament we had over a0 conservative mps either voting against the government or abstaining. That is very different. I will not rule out anything and who knows, we may well get to that point. You do not think that will happen . The more obvious path to achieving what we want and stopping brexit is to put together that majority of mps in favour of a peoples vote. Some will be relu cta nt peoples vote. Some will be reluctant backers but will recognise it is the way out of the impasse. Where is that majority . There were 280 in march. You need more conservatives. As it stands now there are not the votes. We are not far off it and a lot depends on what happens in the next few weeks. The ability to take control of the order paper, and there are different mechanisms for that to happen, that route may well be how we can assemble that majority for a peoples vote, which is more likely than getting a lot of tory mps to vote. It would not be for me to choose the next Prime Minister. You would fancy the job. It would have to be from a labour backbencher. 30 or 40 tory mps would put a labour minister in power . They would not vote for an election orJeremy Corbyn, but what they could do, i think it could be there in september when they see what borisjohnson is like, ithink when they see what borisjohnson is like, i think we could see them saying, lets have a government of National Unity and Work Together in order to get out of this impasse. The chancellor is talking about this. I am the chancellor is talking about this. Iam not the chancellor is talking about this. I am not talking about a random tory backbencher, i am talking about cabinet ministers who are contemplating what i am talking about. Jo swinson, what about your constituency and your seat . We were on the radio together when the European Election results came in and the snp did very well in your neck of the woods, they got the majority there. If you were lib dem leader would you not be fighting a rearguard action to keep your own seat rather than winning anywhere else . I will never take for granted winning any constituency and i dont think mps should do that. I am confident of my position in east dunbartonshire. I won it with a majority at the last election. Dunbartonshire. I won it with a majority at the last electionm was not very much. It is more than i had since i was first elected. It is a four Party Political system and it isa a four Party Political system and it is a fight between myself and the snp in east dunbartonshire. They won the seat in 2015, but the voters in 2017 wanted me to be the mp again. Let us think ability a snap election, brexit hasnt happened and it isa election, brexit hasnt happened and it is a hung particle. Are you ruling out a formal coalition with Jeremy Corbyn or lets say in this scenario Boris Johnson . Yes. Yes. Categorical. Absolutely. What if one is trying to form a government, is there nothing they could offer you that would push you into some sort of arrangement . I mean, this goes to the heart of the problem that is facing our country. Because frankly, the choice between borisjohnson and Jeremy Corbyn is not good enough. Britain deserves better than either of those. We have got borisjohnson who doesnt care who he of fends who divides the country, who frankly doesnt care about anything other than borisjohnson, doesnt care about anything other than Boris Johnson, and doesnt care about anything other than borisjohnson, and you have Jeremy Corbyn, who as well as not getting off the fence on brexit is refusing to deal with anti semitism in his party. So no. Our mandate would be to stop brexit. That is our clear manifesto position so we will use our mps to make that happen. And lets imagine there is two parties who could put a queens speech together. If that queens speech doesnt contain a bill for a peoples vote, we will vote it down. You would support labours queens speech with a second referendum in it . We wouldnt go into coalition with a Brexit Corbyn government, we wouldnt do a supply in confidence. You could vote for their queens speech. We would vote on bill by bill, that is what you do in parliament. That is supplying confidence. No, of course it is not. We could vote against the budget, every single thing, that is different. Would you do the same . Look, i think that in the scenario you are talking about, i wouldnt have confidence that every single labourmp have confidence that every single labour mp would want to put Jeremy Corbyn in number ten. But the scenario that labour underJeremy Corbyn would be prepared to include a bill, a promise and a pledge to hold a peoples vote. My question is how can you trust Jeremy Corbyn on brexit . Jeremy corbyn has egive kated time and time again. You are the no answering the question, your members, supporters, your mps if you we re members, supporters, your mps if you were leader, there is the promise of having another referendum to stop brexit and you are saying i wouldnt even entertain it. I am saying that i think even entertain it. I am saying that ithink in even entertain it. I am saying that i think in the scenario you are talking about, there may well be a majority of mps from different parties for peoples vote, working together, in that scenario and i think that would be much better to pursue. You have talked about being a non tribal politician. pursue. You have talked about being a nontribal politician. I am too. If there is is a prospect of a peoples vote to stop brexit you can vote for that queens speech, you dont have to vote for anything else. I would oppose so much, Jeremy Corbyn and John Mcdonnell are way to the leaflet for me. We would have to vote for a peoples vote. They would wa nt vote for a peoples vote. They would want you to vote for their deal, ta ke want you to vote for their deal, take it or leave it, here is your chance for a second referendum. Your vote rs chance for a second referendum. Your voters are not going to be pleased if you lose the chance for that second referendum, because you wouldnt, you dont have to have. If you look at european parliament, where you often have a party in opposition with a huge number of mps who vote on issue by issue, that is quite, quite normal in other countries. Ed has been quite clear about what the price would be, can you tell us and tell our viewers what you would do in that scenario, would you be prepared to support on that issue, that one issue, to get your referendum . So i want to stop brexit. Right. That that scenario i would first of all work with people across different party, because, because i believe that among the Labour Party Mps currently, labour mps know that Jeremy Corbyn is Labour Party Mps currently, labour mps know thatJeremy Corbyn is not fit to be Prime Minister. So, dont tell me that they would all be saying they would necessarily be backing Jeremy Corbyn. Sure, but you cant guarantee, but you cant garage knee this contest with a general election possibly round the corner you would back a labour queens speech that included the promise which is what you want, to stop brexit. I think in that scenario, what the labour party does, is absolutely crucial. Because the labour party know that Jeremy Corbyn cannot be trusted in this situation. And i think that we. No one trusted him. Situation. And i think that we. Noone trusted him. Let us bring up another issue which close do your hearts, and liberal Democrat Members and supporter, which is voting reform. If that were a bill, if there was a promise to enact some form of voting reform from Jeremy Corbyn, orfrom form of voting reform from Jeremy Corbyn, or from whoever is leading the tory party, would you then sign up the tory party, would you then sign up to that . For me the first thing is to stop brexit. That is the cree prize, clearly i really want electoral reform, and it is really important thing for us to demand. At the moment our country is in crisis, we have to tackle that, that has to be the top priority. Is that the same for you . Look, you are trying to get into coalition negotiations. We are not talking about coalition, you are even seemed we are not talking about coalition, you are even seemed to have ruled out, we can quibble about confidence and supply, but if. Iwill vote for a bill on electoral reform. Would that be a price worth paying to give your support in a confidence and supply to. No, i do not believe either of those men deserve to be our Prime Minister and i think in terms of electoral reform, if they went to bring forward a bill i will vote for it. This is about the future of our country and how we is have a good give. That means we can have a good give. That means we can have a good give. That means we can have a give we can have confidence in and confidence in supply means confidence in that government. The reason we are asking these questions because the party has been here before in the Coalition Government and of course you reneged on that massive pledge, that you signed, over increasing tuition fees. Do you think there would ever be a situation perhaps on the idea of a second referendum, or on voting reform you would sign another pledge before going into any sort of arrangement with. The liberal democrats should be wary, i would accept that but what i will be clear is if you do go into coalition, i can see no prospect of a coalition with corbyn orjohnson, both because they are brexiteers, one is on the ha rd left they are brexiteers, one is on the hard left and one on the hard right. We cant do a coalition with them. In the future when politics have change, five, ten years time, if i am leader of course i would consider am leader of course i would consider a coalition, i would make it clear that would involve compromises. The great thing about the coalition we achieved we got 75 of the liberal democrat manifesto through. We took millions of low paid out of tax. We helped people with Mental Health problems in the way they have not been helped before and we nearly quadrupled britains green power. What you really wanted was to oppose an increase in tuition fees and you wa nted an increase in tuition fees and you wanted voting reform, you got neither. Look, i agree we did a lot of good in coalition and got a lot of good in coalition and got a lot of good in coalition and got a lot of good policies through, same sex marriage and so on. We did get it wrong on tuition fee, we got it wrong on tuition fee, we got it wrong and which have to admit that. If we want to have a hearing from the electorate they need to understand we recognise our mistakes and importantly have learned from them. Sol and importantly have learned from them. So i just and importantly have learned from them. So ijust back to howl and importantly have learned from them. So ijust back to how i felt in coalition when that was being mooted, and that is the instinct i will listen to in future. Right, if the election has happened once brexit has been delivered we are in a different sort of scenario. Once brexit has happened are you going to stay stuck on brexit, are you going to compiegne for britain to rejoin the European Union . Yes, because at the European Union . Yes, because at the moment if we left the European Union in october, brexit wouldnt be over, there would be years of negotiation, including if we do the so called no deal, because that is a deception, there would be a huge number of deals. But you have been talking about post brexit trade by that point, rather than reversing brexit. The brexit deal wont be done for three orfour brexit. The brexit deal wont be done for three or four year, that is the deception being put forward. British people at the moment i think, it would be over in october, we would fight it. Are you saying you would campaign to rejoin the eu, that means the euro and schengen. You know we wouldnt really be out. You know we wouldnt really be out. You would be. The truth is, a European Partners want us to be in there and we could be in there if we havent done all those agreements. Rejoin the party, jo . The first thing to note is anyone who is sick of hearing about brexit, whether it is journalist, of hearing about brexit, whether it isjournalist, people watching programmes like this, is that you know, there the quickest way to stop having to talk about brexit is to have a peoples vote and remain because we are talking about years of wrangling otherwise. I think there will still be years of wrangling. In those year, there would be week in, week out, decision after decision that parliament would be voting on and to be holding the government to account, about how close the relationship would. We would need to have the closest relationship possible because our best future is in the European Union and the relationship makes that possible. And that means rejoining. Of course we would want that to happen with the euro and schengen. We dont have do that. You are saying scotland would have do that. These are matters of negotiation but the most important thing in the immediate aftermath is to make sure that that future relationship, that trading relationship, the diplomatic relationship, the beefing up of our embassies in europings, to make sure thoses relationships stayed strong would be so important and those would be so important and those would be so important and those would be the immediate battles. Let us would be the immediate battles. Let us talk about a different policy area, Climate Change. Ed, should the uk be ona area, Climate Change. Ed, should the uk be on a warfooting, when it comes to fighting Climate Change . We have an emergency climate budget. We have an emergency climate budget. We have got to up our game on this, the Scientific Evidence shows that Climate Change is getting worse, it is really, really threaten, and if we are going to protect our people and our world, we have to do far more. We did a huge amount in government, we made britain the world leader in offshore wind farm. What does that look like . Do you think it is as much as an emergency to be ona think it is as much as an emergency to be on a warfooting . Think it is as much as an emergency to be on a war footing . Well, let us give you some of the things we do straightaway. We would bring back the zero carbon homes for New Buildings we brought in that the tories got rid of. Expansion of wind. Technologies like tidal lagoon, like the Carbon Capture and storage, a range of things we were doing that the tories stopped. Would you sign up to that . Absolutely, we need to have a much more ambitious set of policies from the government on Climate Change and i think, you know, the question that you are asking, is how seriously does this get taken . Is this something that is a department that is doing good work or is this something that the whole government really focuses on and thatis government really focuses on and that is where it needs to be. government really focuses on and that is where it needs to be. If it is being taken seriously that means blinking the carbon emission target forward. It does, we should be be as ambitious as possible. So that is five years. What you have to do, you want to decarbonise, i have been putting this forward, because now we have the technology, the real issues can we get the money to follow it through. I have talked to the governor of the bank of england, we can regulate the banks Pension Funds so they stop investing in fossil fuel, take account of risk and we can see trillions going. We want specific, would you go further than 20a5 . Specific, would you go further than 2045 . We should look further and look where the science takes us. What in reality you get to is some industries where you can do it earlier. The government is saying we are going to phase out new petrol and diesel cars by 2040. We think you can bring that ten years at least. So it needs to kept under review, when we started it was an 80 percent reduction target by 2050. Now it is net zero, i hope with the right investment, because the information for investors to make good green choices is vital, then, industries will move ahead at pace, and we will be able to bring this ambition forward and we have to. Right. A date . If it was going to be early than 2045, where would you put your money . At the moment we think 2045 but in some sectors you can bring it forward. It doesnt sound that ambitious. The Climate ChangeCommittee Said 2050. The wwf said 2045. We have signed up to that and i have signed up to, if we can innovate and bring the cost down we can bring it down earlier. One thing. I brought it down to under 60. Would you ban internalflights or stop them. I dont think that is foesable but we need more investment in transport infrastructure. We need to have much more investment, and i think the key thing is, this is where extinction rebel iolo think the key thing is, this is where extinction rebel 1010 i dont know get it right. I was impressed when i went down and protested there with my five year old, they make the point this is about change, it is not about beating individuals up a up, it is about making it easier for people. We are almost out of time on bbc two but our coverage continues on the bbc news channel. To viewers o bbc two. We say goodbye. To seem to have a female leader. Lets return to that issue on internal flights. You did lets return to that issue on internalflights. You did say lets return to that issue on internal flights. You did say that you wanted to stop, as part of your offer to try and improve the environment. But that could be beyond 2050. I think it is crazy that we have lots of internal flights from places like birmingham and manchester. Listen, i have made it clear that you would keep flights until realistic alternatives were available. We should push hard and fast to do that. That is not happening at the moment. Under my government it would happen. Happening at the moment. Under my government it would happenm happening at the moment. Under my government it would happen. Is that really feasible . Is itjust rhetoric . That is honestly something we have discussed, but saying that internal flights should be stopped goes a bit further doesnt it . At the moment, if you want to travel between glasgow and london or edinburgh and london you will find that it edinburgh and london you will find thatitis edinburgh and london you will find that it is faster and cheaper to fly. When i worked for a small business, a small start up Media Company in glasgow, and we did business trips to london to meet clients, we always flew, that was the cheapest way to do it. This is about systemic changes. You have got to make it easier for people to nudge, and change the way people work, to make the choice, that ends up work, to make the choice, that ends up better for the environment. We have huge swathes of us shale gas in this country. Not at all. Is that a no . I think there should be a ban on fracking. I said they wanted to fracking. Did ban on fracking. I said they wanted to fracking. Did you not say i love shale gas . That is what i researcher said. What it is past the strictest environmental regulations, including lowering earth tremors. And because of the regulations i passed committee fracking history has not taken off. Fracking has not ta ken off. Has not taken off. Fracking has not taken off. When what way do you love shale gas . If it could have met all the tough environmental conditions i put on, we will be replacing gas we were taking from the far east. It would not have increased the Climate Change impact but at the moment, as i. Have you fallen out of love with shale gas . Of course i have. Did you not take a donation. I do not think that is a good characterisation. If you want to talk about the company, it is 80 renewable. It is a company doing the renewable. It is a company doing the renewable revolution our country needs. It is along renewable revolution our country needs. It is a longtime lib dem member supporting my campaign. You talked about nudging attitudes. When you talk about flying, where are you going on holiday this summer . Im going on holiday this summer . Im going on holiday this summer . Im going on two, one is scotland. You are not flying . I am not. I have not booked my holidays yet, because i am onjury service. Because booked my holidays yet, because i am on jury service. Because you booked my holidays yet, because i am onjury service. Because you know how that is going to last, you cannot look a holiday. Talk about avoiding that question to make a confession, i am flying to shetland to help with a by election. It is a 14 hour ferry so i am flying. Lets talk about social care. Boris johnson has been talking about cross party working. Your word your your party has done a lot of work on this, particular norman lamb. Would you commit notjust to cross party talking actually to whatever solution that group came up with . And then campaign for it even if it u psets and then campaign for it even if it upsets your voters, which it is going to . We did in government. The commission that talked about a settlement for Adult Social Care for the elderly, and we plummeted it and legislated that. Implement it that. The people who reneged on that we re that. The people who reneged on that were the conservatives. Is itjust the proposals you are in favour of . Are you in favour of a better proposal of the proposal theresa may put forward in 2017 . If youre one of the lucky families unlucky families whose family need care for a long time, youre not only financial penalise. Why . Pa rt of not only financial penalise. Why . Part of this is how care is paid for. It is also, not talked about now, a workforce that is underpaid, undervalued, and actually it is one of the things which as work changes, there is more automation, more robotics, the things that cannot be replaced by that new technology is things like empathy and care and love. Caring ought to be, for the future for our economy, a key part of we are scaling people to do. Absolutely we need the cross party work on getting the funding, but we also need a much more ambitious, positive approach to how we look after one another and how we have an economy that is much more based on care. Is that even achievable when you have not agreed on social care proposals in the basis, fundamentals . It has to. What is the alternative . A fundamentals . It has to. What is the alternative . A situation fundamentals . It has to. What is the alternative . A situation where old people are not look after . That is where we are going. There is another dimension not looked at by politicians, and that is we have people and i with very special needs, and when their parents die, they need care. I am familiar with this. My son needs care. I am 52, he is 11, so he is going to be around a lot longer than i am. We need to make sure that a government of whichever colour, that that care is available. Every time you talk of a social care, you do basically and up telling voters they have to spend a lot more money one way or another. Youre going to have to commit to some makes people angry either which way. I dont think the commission was unfair. I think this is why there needs to be that crossbody consensus and the needs to be a straightforward conversation about it, and some people will be, but ultimately you dont go. You dont go into politics to be liked by everybody all the time. You need to be able to win elections. And this was seen as one of be able to win elections. And this was seen as one of the main issues why theresa may lost. You do want to make the country better. If it is genuinely in the best interest overall, you need to be able to. Your deliberative cut party you are the liberal democrat party, not just the two of you. When it comes to social issues, tim farron resigned his party leader because he said. We are kidding ourselves if we are yet to live a tolerant society. Should you be able to hold private beliefs which contradict party values . Yes. Accord you should. Is allowing women to her the burqa suppressing the macro very good suppressing. Should feminists be allowed to speak at universities when they are expressing views the question whether trans women are women . They should be allowed. I also reckon eyes it is up to universities who they allow to speak, and to protest and to make clear that there are very offensive things that are said when you question someones right to exist. By question someones right to exist. By the way, for example, i. Are you saying feminists are not allowed to make that statement . What i would say is trans women are to make that statement . What i would say is trans women are women, to make that statement . What i would say is trans women are women, and therefore, it is not a question of putting feminism against trans rates and putting feminism against trans rates and| putting feminism against trans rates and i know that is how it is often caricatured but i believe dispute that that is the case. Everybodys rights are important. Whose rights are more important here . It is not a conflict between rights. The issue is freedom of speech. That is the issue. Trans men are men and trans women are women. | issue. Trans men are men and trans women are women. I am very clear women are women. I am very clear about that. The feminists you are talking about, i disagree with them, but one of the reason i am not in favour of no platform is whether they are racist, trans phobos, i like to debate them to put the holes in their arguments and talk to them. I do agree, add. Toa and talk to them. I do agree, add. To a point. Milos, when he walked up, the people to a point. Milos, when he walked by to a point. Milos, when he walked n to a point. Milos, when he walked up, the people gay on that campus felt less safe. The increases in hate speech, when it is free speech, but when you have increases in hate speech, people feel less safe. The lot is very clear, and we as a party have already supported it. If people promote violence and hate through. We are not talking a promotion of violence and hate. There is a difference there in terms of what youre saying. People are protected by the law as it currently stands but in terms of freedom of speech. I am very troubled by your use of the word safe. Actually, if studying text that upset you can that does not automatically make you feel u nsafe that does not automatically make you feel unsafe as a person. It can make you feel angry and want to respond, andi you feel angry and want to respond, and i think the sort of upfront platforming is one thing, but what often happens is the speaker is invited and then a group of people say that they feel unsafe because that person is going to be on campus, and the reason they feel u nsafe campus, and the reason they feel unsafe is that that person disagrees with something fundamental to them. They are not inciting violence but their inventors rescinded. There have been cases where that did not make sense whatsoever. I suppose what im saying is that there are circumstances where there individuals, the view is taken that them speaking on campus will not be helpful to people. You get into this free speech debate on tommy robinson. You have the people who march and they think he has been dreadfully hard done by, and actually, we need to recognise the role that hate speech plays within our society and that overall debate, and it needs to be. It is quite difficult to do it, overarching, without looking its pacific cases and taking into account the information there at the time. We are going to review some tweets we have had some viewers. Noah has written to say if the lib dems. We are also a democratic party. Therefore, i dont believe in a right to impose our will. Even there has been a referendum, we have to show we would want to take the force of our arguments back to the people. The results of the second referendum, not just the first one. I would say we need to have, absolutely crucial in the second referendum, a specific form of brexit. Whatever form of brexit did this. It cannot be something everyone projects their own vision onto. And brexiteers cannot even agree. The erg cannot believe theresa may positive brexit is brexit enough. To suggest brexit is brexit, which is what we heard for so brexit, which is what we heard for so long, is a meaningless phrase. And i think youre going to choose. Brexiteers, years after the referendum, have to agree what thatis the referendum, have to agree what that is looking like. She is right. This has to be specific and detailed. That is why the country is a mess. In 2016, it was not. No deal isa a mess. In 2016, it was not. No deal is a unicorn. It is a fantasy. Unless no deal is spent out, which means lots of deals, negotiating lots of deals from outside the eu, that has to be spelled out for it to bea that has to be spelled out for it to be a legitimate question on the ballot. We are moving on. Jim wrote income assaying. Wrote in, saying. Will you dare to . No. It is kind of like them talking about the repairs department costing every dickason amount of money, and partly that is true. Costing a lot of money. I dont know the specific details. Maybe there have been large spreads of photographs and some of the newspapers, but. The way it works, parliament votes the money for the royal budget, and the royal family looking all the things the royal family has to do, split it all. The idea and have to micromanage that, or should micromanage that, is a nonsense. I think we do a pretty good job as a methodist per our country. The last few years, i think we have done a pretty good job for our country. Exactly right tell us for our country. Exactly right tell us when the result is. 4pm monday. Apm us when the result is. 4pm monday. 4pm monday. All counted by then. That is it from all of us. Thank you and have a lovely weekend. Welcome back to the bbc newsroom. I am chris rogers. Lets bring you some breaking news. You may have seen it on the bottom of your screen during that. Were it from numerous sources now. of your screen during that. Were it from numerous sources now. We are hearing it. Iran says it has captured a British Oil Tanker in the strait of hormuz. The company owning the vessel has confirmed it has been unable to make contact with the crew. Our correspondent has shown me in the studio. I think we are able to show Iranian State tv. What