Fibre of american society. Im rico hizon in singapore. And the brutality of racism had not also in the programme now on bbc news its hardtalk. Changed in its application. A bbc investigation hears from women whove accused top afghan it had just changed welcome to hardtalk, government officials im stephen sackur. Of sexual harassment. There are some human experiences in how it was applied. And australia pledges to hold which most of us find very hard a referendum on recognising Indigenous People in to get our heads around. But i am mindful that you walked out in the year that barack 0bama my guest today experienced served his last year as president the nations constitution. Of the United States of america, the unimaginable torment of more than four decades in solitary the first black man to hold that position. Live from our studios in singapore can you really say that nothing had confinement in a tiny cell in one and london, this is bbc world news. Its changed in 44 years . Of americas most notorious prisons. A technicality. I was in prison when Albert Woodfox was the victim of ingrained racism and brutality president 0bama was elected. Inside americas system of criminaljustice. My reality was that he is now a free man. But what does freedom really nothing would change. Mean after everything he has been through . This is one man, we have a culture of racism and bigotry and White Supremacy that goes back to the founding of america. And one man cannotjust change that in eight years. Thats the longest period of time he would be allowed to be president. Will it change . I wonder what you say to your children and your Albert Woodfox, welcome to hardtalk. Great grandchildren because you speak as a man here you are, in london as a free man. Who all those years ago committed but given everything to the black Panther Movement you have been through, is it possible for you to to achieve what you regard as justice for black people in america. Ever feel truly free . Yeah, i mean philosophically, how do you think your grandchildren and great grandchildren should carry out that struggle . Mentally and emotionally i was free if you still see it as a struggle. I think its a social struggle. Long before my physicalfreedom. As a matter of fact it is one and so that was a part of the personal motivations for me. Of my survival technique. It allowed me to survive being in solitary confinement i dont want my Great Grandkids 30 for such a long period of time. Years from now to be sitting here being interviewed on a stage talking to people about racism and institutional racism and systemic application of racism. I wonder in terms of, as Martin Luther king said, literally in terms of muscle memory, i would rather that society that has whether the way your body is, evolved to the point whether your muscles remember four where they are judged by content decades in shackles, of character not the colour whether you still have that feeling of being in an enclosed space, of their skin or their ethnicity literally two by three metres or has or physical features that left your body . Or hair checks. Let me ask you this. A different sort of question i still have claustrophobic but the same thing, are you proud attacks occasionally. And i guess several times i wake up of your country today . And have been disorientated, because i am used to getting up and seeing bars and stuff and you wake up and you see my country, yes. My government, no. And a last thought, and ifind this remarkable a wall and a bedroom. About you and the strength of your mind, you say that when you consider everything that for a brief moment had happened to you in your life, i am disorientated. And i mean everything, you say i would not you had an awful long time change one thing. All i went through made me to reflect on the course of your life and i want to take you right back the man i am today. To near the beginning. Do you really mean that . Growing up in louisiana as a young that you would not, on reflection, take different decisions that boy, you made choices and you made would have avoided those 44 years some very bad choices, in solitary confinement . I guess one could say now. Looking back, why did no. You make those choices . No, i would not change a thing. Because for one thing, i was a Young African american kid i didntjust survive solitary growing up in the south confinement, i prospered of the United States. As a human being. Racism was blatant, i developed moral principles, values and a code of conduct. The opportunities from economic i self educated myself. All the things that society had denied me as a human being i was able to provide myself in a hostile to political to social were almost non existent. And isolating environment. And if you are denied access to society, if you are denied opportunities, the instinct to survive is probably the strongest so, no, i wouldnt change anything. Instinct we have. It was almost predestined that i would turn to petty crime to survive. As painful as it has been as brutal as it has been the beatings, the gassings, forced to drink out id like to read to you a little of the toilet because they turned the water off while i passage from your extraordinarily frank and honest book, was in the dungeon. Solitary, where you talk about being a youth growing up. All the things i went through, i robbed people, iscared they helped build me and shape the man i am today and my mum used them, i threatened them, to always tell me to always be proud of what you look at in the mirror. I intimidated them. I stole from people and so far i think the way i have who had almost nothing. Conducted myself and the way i have they were my people, black people. Transformed myself and the way i broke into their homes i have evolved, i am proud and took their possessions. Of what looks back at me. I was a chauvinist pig and i never thought about the pain i caused. Yes. I made terrible choices. There are things that i did that i will never be able to forgive myself for. And i will spend the rest of my life trying to atone for those things. But i was not a criminal. I thought i had to do criminal things to survive. Albert woodfox, it has been and later on in life, a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you for being on hardtalk. Because of the influence injoining the black Panther Party i began to understand how society functioned and understand what individual racism supported by institutional racism and the systemic application of racism, how that affected my life individually and as a member of the African American community. It has been a very humid couple you talk about the black panthers of days across many parts of the uk. And i guess it was inside the prison temperatures have got in new york where you first really came face to face with black men up to 27 degrees. Who were committed members of the Panther Movement. Were you already aware of them . Some of that humidity is going to spark off a few thunderstorms. Certainly across northern and eastern parts of the country on thursday. Were you already drawn to that not everybody is going to get them though. Ideology, a sort of extremely strong this is what it looks black power ideology or was it like through the early hours. Meeting these people that changed your head . So already some showers dotted around across the uk. The south is largely dry early in the morning. And very warm 15 16 degrees after dawn, just in the north west there, maybe around 12 there is a question degrees in stornoway. As to whether the influence n0w, low pressure is crossing of the black Panther Party awaken something already in me or whether the influence the country on thursday. Of the black Panther Party raised my level of consciousness thats going to spark off some thunderstorms. To where i began to understand once again across scotland and eastern parts of the uk. The forces around me, further south it is looking dry. The weather is looking i began to understand absolutely fine for wimbledon. Partly cloudy skies. Temperatures around that there were certain policies the mid 20s and light winds. But still quite humid. From the government on down to white so the forecast for the morning, america that determined pretty much showers possible almost anywhere across central, northern england, scotland, maybe one or two in northern ireland. The course of my life. The black panthers spoke a lot it is later on from lincolnshire, the eastern counties, aboutjustice and equality for black and eastern scotland where we will see the heaviest people in the United States of the showers brewing. 20 degrees in the north. After centuries of discrimination in the south, around 25 or 26. Another warm, humid day. And slavery, of course, lets zoom into eastern scotland. But post slavery the discrimination these showers will continue to move continued. Across scotland into the evening hours and, again, thunderstorms possible almost anywhere from yorkshire northwards. There were also some black panthers who were clearly explicitly committed to violence. Were you part of the movement that believed that violence thursday night into friday, was justified or not . That low pressure pushes away. This High Pressure is trying to build on that will help improve the weather as we head you know, like any organisation, into the weekend. The organisation has a goal, a perimeter in which they function. Here is fridays weather forecast. There is a shift in the wind direction, coming there will be people from the north west. It will put away some in the organisation who will not of that humidity. Temperatures will drop a touch as well. Adhere to that. On friday, again, further showers are possible in some eastern areas we had people like that of the uk. Temperatures typically around the low 20s, maybe touching 23, in the party but overall. 2a degrees in southern parts of the uk. What about you . Thats friday. Me, personally, no. Lets have a look at saturday. The winds mostly in from the north. My experience with the party was in prison. So feeling a little bit fresher, i think, across the majority herman and i formed the only of the uk. It will cloud over times. Recognised black Panther Party chapter in a prison. There is the chance of one or two showers, but on the whole so a lot of the stuff that happened it is a dry saturday for most of us. With the party in society, we were not exposed to it. Not a bad one. Quite a bright one. Temperatures typically 21 22 degrees. Saturday looks fairly i take your point because, really, similar as well. Your active involvement in cardiff, 2a, with the black panthers was all behind bars which takes us to angola. That notorious prison in louisiana light winds, really a very pleasant saturday and sunday on the way. 00 08 31,160 4294966103 13 29,430 bye bye. Where you ended up in 1971 when you walked through the gate into thatjail and you did not leave it for more than four decades. 44 years. Before we get to solitary, talk me through your First Impressions of what has long been regarded as the most brutal and perhaps most racist prison in the United States of america. That pretty much sums it up. Angola had been designated by various social organisations, including government organisations as being the bloodiest and most violent prison in the United States at that time. Almost every day, prisoners either by security or by prisoner on prisoner crime someone was stabbed or bludgeoned or murdered so that was the type of environment that you were forced to survive in. And it was segregated. Yes. And the staff, from the governor on down but pretty much all of the staff were white. Yes. Is a matter of fact, in angola itself you had about 300 personnel in charge of about 5000 or 6000 prisoners. What was unique about angola is that it was a former slave plantation. It had been a plantation throughout the course of the slave period. And you still have families who work there, they go back generation after generation. And you, the black prisoners, were put to work in the fields. Mostly. Yes. There were a fewjanitorialjobs. Most of the plum jobs went to the white prisoners. Lets get to 1972. The murder of a young white prison guard. Did you do it . No. There is such an abundance of physical evidence that clearly. You know, says i was not involved in his murder. Physical evidence, they found a bloodied fingerprint in mr millers blood on the door. They never pursued beyond blaming it on me and the other guys who were charged. They did not match any of the people who worked the crime scene. So it raises the obvious question, why were you targeted by the authorities . The prison staff, administrative and security, they were aware that herman and i were members of the black panthers. Herman wallace, your friend, a fellow black panther. And you were explicit in the prison. You organised other prisoners. You formed an antirape squad to try and control the Sexual Assault and abuse inside your wing of the prison. So you were not hiding your black panther loyalty. No. And to be honest with lasted longer than we thought because there was an internal conflict in the new. Doc secretary, department of corrections, so mr miller was murdered in that environment. So you are convicted of a crime that you insist, always insisted you simply did not commit. But the fact is you were hauled off to that special part of the prison for the solitary confinement prisoners. And life in a cell of two metres by three metres began. And i think everyone watching and listening to this will not be able to get their head around what you then experienced for 43 years and ten months. So try and capture it for me. Well, its kind of hard to find words to imagine the horror of being confined to a nine foot long, six foot wide cell. The actual space itself is much smaller because you have metal beds attached to the wall that take up a great part of the cell. A metal table and chair on the other wall and a toilet bowl sink combination in back so you have a narrow path in which to manoeuvre up and down the cell. So although the cell is six feet wide and nine feet long, the actual space is much smaller. Try to stay in your bedroom for 23 hours. Go in your backyard, draw a box, nine feet by six feet and stay in there for 23 hours. Now multiply thati million times. To add to that, you know there was absolutely nothing you can do to change the situation you are in. And add to that the attitude and behaviour of the guards who are responsible for you. That was a huge element in the, lets use the word, torture that was imposed upon you. Now they refer to them as correction officers but at that time they were known as free men. And you add to that you had an inmate guard system and these guys were brutal. What you mean by brutal . They used physical violence against other prisoners. They beat them, they gassed them, they had pretty much the same power and authority as the free men, as they were referred to, who work there. And they never hesitated to use the power they had. If i may say so, as you has said since, you and herman, your great friend who was locked up in solitary in the same place as you, me and herman, we did not put up with all the racist comments. If they talked trash to us, we talked trash back to them just as bad. I forced myself to learn how to not give into the fear. I would not let fear rule me. As a result, you got the pain and the brutality even worse. We were seeing a lot. They referred to us troublemakers and ringleaders. And had no idea of the Political Foundation or the philosophy, that motivated us to fight against injustice and inhumanity. A horrible physical condition, the lack of clothing, lack of adequate food. If i asked you right now, looking back, what was the worst thing, the thing that really got closest to breaking you . That would be my mothers death. Other than that, with all i went through and all that happened to me, i never came close to being broken. When i lost my mom in 1994 to cancer there was a policy in to go home for the funeral and in African American families it is important to say that final goodbye. It usually occurs at the wake or the funeral. But because they had singled me out as a troublemaker, i was denied that. So i had to carry that burden for 27 years. Fortunately before my mother passed away my life changed tremendously. A transformation from criminal to political and social activist had occurred and i was in the process of educating and re educating myself to try and raise my level of conscience and so i was able to thank her for the things that she values and what she tried to instill in me and to tell her she was my first hero. You did an awful lot of reading in prison and became something of a legal expert. You looked at so many legal books. You launched so many appeals and you did, actually, deliver change to the prison regime while you were there. And thanks also to people working outside on your behalf, various appeals against the conviction and, finally, in 2016 you did not get the exoneration you were looking for, but you got the offer of a plea deal. Its called an alford plea. A plea does not admit guilt but it admits that the state has enough evidence to bring you to trial. You had always said i will walk out of here when i am declared an innocent man and you were not. I still have problems with that. There are times when i feel very angry and there are times when i am disappointed that i took the plea deal. Because for my whole life i taught men to fight, to stand for what was right and, you know, i tried to do it by not just words but example. So in the final analysis, you know, i accepted a plea deal. And there were many factors involved but i think the one factor is a conversation i had with my brother. He said that he was visiting with my daughter and she broke down crying. He asked what was wrong and she said why dont i have a daddy . Ahd he said you have a daddy, and he has accomplished things in the prison system, you would be very proud of him. And she said no, i dont know what it is to call him daddy and get a response, i dont know what it is for him to hold me in his arms and comfort me when im troubled. I dont know if ill ever experience that. And that was kind of the Tipping Point of the mental and emotional battle i was waging with myself. 00 19 20,254 4294966103 13 29,430 and you do have that now