Transcripts For BBCNEWS Victoria Derbyshire 20240714

Like, yesterday, somebody said oh, youre looking better. And i said, by better, do you mean fatter . And they were like, no, i mean, you dont look pale and grey. But instantly my first thought was, they mean that ive put on weight and, therefore, i look bad. It comes as the charity, beat, tells us exclusively that nice guidelines into how the families of people with an eating disorder should be supported are not being properly followed. Theyre today launching new guidance on how it should be done. Well talk to Roisin Mccallion who was diagnosed with anorexia when she was 16 and her parents, who struggled to get the help they needed to support their daughter. And well sit in on a therapy session to see how this service is doing things differently to help patients. Hello. Good morning. Welcome to our programme. Regularly on this programme we broadcast live from places many people dont have experience of. Weve taken you inside a pupil referral unit, a Domestic Abuse refuge and today were live from the West Yorkshire Harrogate Adult Eating Disorders Service. We are based in halifax and we are going to talk about eating disorders between now and ii going to talk about eating disorders between now and 11 oclock. Abouti Million People in the uk have an eating disorder in the uk. Most of those are women and girls. We are talking about anorexia, bulimia and binge eating. You may have an eating disorder, or maybe a loved one does. Let us know how treatment is going. How easy or otherwise it was to access treatment. And how you are doing in your recovery. You can email us or tweet using victorialive. Many of you have been contacting us already this morning. Lets introduce you now to rhstones, consultant psychiatrist clinical lead. Good morning. Basic question, what are eating disorders . Eating disorder is a Mental Illness first and foremost and typically you get a combination of what we call anorexic oi combination of what we call anorexic or bulimic thinking where people become very preoccupied with their weight and shape, as well as other things, and that will often lead to disordered eating behaviours, things like restriction, binging and purging amongst other things but it is not solely around that. It can have a huge impact on every aspect of that persons life, they can feel out of control, they can feel they are missing out on things in life that may be you or i and other people take for granted. What are some of the physical and psychological side effects of having an eating disorder. From the physical side it can affect every system in the body. We typically worry about the heart but it can affect everything from fertility to your skin to your gut and the way your skin to your gut and the way you digest. Psychologically, it can affect lots of things in terms of your thinking, your memory, but typically what people will talk about is it takes over all of their thinking, their day, their routines are all focused around eating and diet but actually it is far more than about eating and diet. Part of therapy is about exploring that. Do eating disorders only affect women and girls . Ive had a tweet from sophie lou last night for example, saying she is a bit cross that the perception of people who have eating disorders, as she puts it, attention seeking, vein, teenage girls. Disorders, as she puts it, attention seeking, vein, teenage girlsli think thats really unhelpful. Look at the reaction, thats really interesting, because obviously people really disagree with that and thatis people really disagree with that and that is what sophie leech was saying. Thats what people think and it is absolutely not the case. The first thing to say there is it does affect everybody of every age. Typically it is of the younger population but it can affect people of any age up until you are 60 or 70. From the gendered side of things it affects men and rates in men are rising as well and they are struggling with the body image issues. Can i borrow that microphone . You laughed and scoffed when i read the tweet from sophie. Why was that . That perception is one of the most dangerous we have come a stop me seeking help when i first developed an eating disorder because i was portrayed as an attention seeking, vein, teenage girl who was too concerned with how she looked and wanting to lose a bit of weight and wanting to lose a bit of weight and that whole idea is just wrong. Through my experience of treatment, ive been in hospital with women who we re ive been in hospital with women who were a similar age to me and ive beenin were a similar age to me and ive been in hospital with women who were in their 60s. It affects absolutely eve ryo ne in their 60s. It affects absolutely everyone and it is such a narrow and harmful stereotype we have got into. Thank you very much, we will hear more from roisin later. Tell us about the service you run here. This is the connect service, we are a regional Adult Eating Disorder Service in West Yorkshire and harrogate with a population of about 2. 5 million, so a big population and a wide geographical area. We provide evidence based treatment in all types of different settings and thats one of the unique things we do here. We can see people in clinics like here, we have another clinics like here, we have another clinic over in leeds, but the crucial thing is we can see people at home. We can provide the level of treatment and support that they need based on what their needs are. I think another important part is inpatient treatment, the same Service Providing Community Treatment and inpatient treatment and transition between the two services is a really crucial part of somebodys journey through treatment and we dont always get things right in the eating Disorder Services and thats something we have focused on at connect to address that. Finally for now because we will talk more later, the average duration for anorexia is 80 i8 later, the average duration for anorexia is 80 18 years and for bulimia it is five years. Can people recover fully and go on to live a happy and normal life . Absolutely, the key is recognition and addressing the stigma and unhelpful attitudes that are out there, in public and also in health care. A big part of what connect is doing is trying to address that. We will talk more about that later. Thank you for the moment. So, eating disorders are not just about food. Anorexia, bulimia where someone overeats then compensates by making themselves sick or taking laxatives, for example, and binge eating are all Mental Health problems that involve disordered eating behaviour. They try and treat as many people as possible in the community here because it is less disruptive to their lives and less expensive than admitting someone to hospital. Around 250 people are looked after by the team here in the community. We followed one therapist as she went to visit two of her patients. Teach me how, how to look. First off today, im going to see lottie. We want to keep people in their actual lives, in their homes, with their families, with their loved ones with their support networks and work with them there. In lotties team, theres a Mental Health nurse, myself, psychological therapist and weve got a Health Support work and dietitian involved. After four sessions, 20 year old lottie is at the beginning stages of treatment for anorexia. Before heading to the supermarket, mary meet to talk through how shes feeling about going food shopping. Have you got an idea of what it is that youre going to buy . I havent had pasta. Like, pastas like a really, really big fear food. So were going to go in, were going to get a basket, and were going to try and do this in quite a timely way. Because ive heard you say that you often stay in there for a while. Since my relapse, ive kind of avoided the supermarket, really. Its when i spiral, ill start thinking about different options and then the more i think of it, like, the deeper within my head i get. I tend to think about, like, the calories, the price, and, like, pros and cons, and that kind of goes on. Ok, so what sort of pasta are you going to grab . Spaghetti. Yeah. Fab. 0k, what else do we need . I tend to get really overwhelmed and really sort of panicky because i dont want to make the wrong choice. 0k . Yeah, ijust dont know if i got the right pasta cos that one is flat. Do you have flat pasta as spaghetti. . No, thats linguine, isnt it . Is that not right . Well, you can have that. Theres no rules. But its not. Can i go swap it . Yeah, of course you can. Im sorry. Its all right. Yeah, that one is the spaghetti. Youre doing really well. My brain is like, argh yeah, thats ok. I feel like i need to take this pasta out of the basket. I want it to be right and i dont want to try it and be like, oh, i dont actually like that. I guess if you are like that and you dont like it, then you deal with that in that moment. So its really important for us to do sessions like that in the community so that its not fixed, its not staged its real. Just give yourself a moment to just think, 0k, how am ifeeling now . Ijust feel really unsettled, because i know that i bought, like, a fear food. Like, there is my eating disorder thats, like, oh, just dont eat it. Its too much. Youre not going to be able to handle it, sort of thing. And then its, like, the me side of my brain thats like, no, you can do it. Its not the pasta that youre scared of. So its like you say, like both of them make you feel anxious. Grace is 18, and after 23 sessions, is coming to the end of her Community Based treatment. She says anorexia became a way for her to cope after losing her sight when she was 15. My lowest point is when i was in hospital because id overdosed. I cant even articulate what that felt like. It was horrible. Id completely lost myself. I remember being at my lowest weight and thinking that i was the fattest, most disgusting, horrible person youd ever see. And, you know, that would cause me to self harm, that would cause me to throw up. Like theres nothing glamourous about spending an evening with your head down the toilet. Weight restoration is not necessarily an indication of recovery. Somebody can put the weight back on and still be feeling absolutely hopeless, still be feeling completely tormented by their eating disorder thinking. Our aim is to go in and help them see some new things about their situation and then, you know, for them to carry on with their lives. So hows this week been . Ive had a couple of instances where anorexic thinking has got the better of me. Like, yesterday somebody said, oh, youre looking better, and i said, by better, do you mean fatter . And they were like, no, i mean you dont look pale and grey. But instantly my first thought was they mean ive put on weight and therefore i look bad. Something as small as that would have impacted me for, like, three orfour days. Before being weighed, i usually get incredibly nervous. It is really difficult sometimes to process if youve gained or lost. I think its a really important process. 0k. And off you come. Have a seat. 0k. Do you remember what it was last time . Yeah. 0k. Grace hadnt restored as much weight as hoped. Were you expecting that . No. There is a part of me thats like, yes but there is a part of me thats like. Thats not happy about that. Anorexia has, like, provided me with independence and autonomy, because, obviously, after losing my sight, i didnt really have that. The past two days, i set myself a challenge of having a bowl of cereal for breakfast and i felt a lot better. Yeah. A lot better Going Forward. But today it was ok eating it, but yesterday i felt really sick and it took me a lot longer to eat it. I want to get better. I just want to feel good in myself. So the session today with grace, i think, was important. Recovery is not a linear process you have to be able to roll with what comes not. Not that life stops, itsjust that theres different ways of coping, theres different ways of being with those feelings other than using eating disorder behaviours. At the beginning of treatment, i didnt think i had a future. I thought that essentially i was attending treatment to make my mum happy. I think i have the tools now where, even if i do start to struggle with my eating again, i can really overcome that. A few weeks ago, i didnt have any motivation to do anything. Ijust didnt want to be here any more, and now i feel like i do want to live my life and my life is worth living. We wish lottie and grace continued success we wish lottie and grace continued success in their recovery. Thank you for your messages. Sophie tweets thank you for raising awareness of eating disorders, they are so over stigmatised, stereotyped, and they are desperate coping mess and is for people at time of high stress mechanism for people at times of high stress. Access to treatment is disastrous and particularly in wales, my bmi was left to drop to a critical level before i could be referred to help despite going to the gp for months beforehand experiencing side effects from restriction. That is something we have covered on the programme a number of times, the fact people say they have to wait for their bmi to fall before they can be referred for treatment. Sophie says eating disorders are not all about food and have much more complex meanings in peoples lives. Ilona says ten years ago with a low bmi and severe believe me i had to beg for treatment. Things have got worse year on year since then and that scares me and ive been calling for Early Intervention and increased funding for over a decade and end up losing hope. Rebecca says i was seen really quickly but that was due to how fast i was deteriorating. Ive looked into my local Services Criteria and they have stated on their website that they do not have a way to criteria to be seen, probably only one of a handful across the country, though. More services need to be like my local one because people are being failed, they are falling through the net and it is not right. 0ne they are falling through the net and it is not right. One more for now. Rachel says i waited for 13 months atan rachel says i waited for 13 months at an anorexic bmi to get treatment from the maudsley. The freed from eating disorder service, the programme they run here, from the eating disorder service, would be amazing if it was available ten yea rs amazing if it was available ten years ago. Sadly, i dont think anybody is looking into Early Intervention for adults. They just assume we are chronic. Patients usually get between 20 and 30 therapy sessions as part of their treatment and the centre today has arranged for a slightly smaller than usual Group Therapy session for us to give us a flavour, to give a taste of what these are like. So, lets have a wander in. Hello. Hi. Good morning. Ignore me. Do carry on. Do you want to go ahead and pick the object that symbolises for you the object that symbolises for you the healthy identity and the one that symbolises the anorexic identity and put them work makes sense to you next to your boxes . Does that make sense . Yeah. Yeah, 0k. Do you want to say what it is about the object that relates to your anorexic identity . about the object that relates to your anorexic identity . I have picked a gate which represents being trapped inside my eating disorder, like, the real me is trapped inside the illness, kind of like ive drawn on this picture were id say this was me and then thats an image that looks nice but it is not your friend, it is your enemy. Thank you. Which one have you gone for for the anorexic identity . Bee, because it feels soft but it can sting and cause damage. It is notjust the enemy, it also feels like a friend, it feels like it is therefore you protecting you. Can i pause at that moment because thats really interesting, the fact that you picked that, you say its a friend and an enemy. Let me introduce you to everybody, thank you for having me in here, mary, who you saw in our film, Mary Franklin smith, therapist, claire jobson, film, Mary Franklin smith, therapist, clairejobson, receiving outpatient treatment after a third time in hospital, georgia rothery, getting this treatment for the second time and anna doherty, discharge from outpatient therapy last spring. These sessions, how did they help . They were hugely influential to my recovery. Being in a setting, in an environment where everybody in the room understood why we we re everybody in the room understood why we were there, really helped. I think, especially, there was a lot of empathy. Anorexia and eating disorders can be very isolating and you think you are the only person going through it but everyone in the group acknowledged thats why they we re group acknowledged thats why they were there and having that supportive environment was so important. Are they tough, georgia . Is it tough to speak openly and honestly about what you are going through in front of other people . Definitely, i think there is a lot of shame attached to an eating disorder. You feel it is all your fault and no one else understands, but actually, when you are in a group and have the courage to kind of talk about whats going on, you realise that you are not alone, you are not the only person going through this, and it keeps you Going Forward , through this, and it keeps you Going Forward, because you know that it is possible to get better. What about you, claire . Do they help you, or is it hard . Its hard but it does help because you think you are the only one going through it and you blame yourself and there is guilt but you realise whoever is going through it is going through it as well so it helps to understand and makes you carry on moving forward. Mary, there are some people who are cynical about therapy. Never mind Group Therapy. But this is evidence based. It does help people recover. Absolutely. This is a mantra group, and mantra is a manual asked therapy that comes from the maudsley, and we have taken this off the page and made it into interactive exercises that we can do each week. The thing we can do in group which is different from individual therapy, the girls have said, when you hear somebody speak out loud the thoughts you have in your head, you might realise it is part of the anorexic psychopathology, part of the anorexic thinking, and not your identity, it is not you that thinks that, it is the illness and you can do that in an individual session but its easy if they can hear each other say it and you can point out and say, has anyone else had that thought today . Is anyone else having that thought right now . When eve ryo ne that thought right now . When everyone starts to nod they realise they are not on their own in a different way than in individual therapy. Anna, when having treatment, and you are a year after being discharged now, what kind of things do you have to relearn about eating . I think its essentially going back to when you were a child and when youre younger you have that intuition to know when youre full, when you need food, and none of that sort of outside influence gets into your mindset. Sol remember thinking back, even gets into your mindset. Sol rememberthinking back, even ten years ago, i loved food, i had a really healthy relationship with food and my mum would make comments like, at least we never have to worry about you being anorexic, which is so ironic, because ten years later im sat here today having been through this. Its really important, we are given dieticians, and relearning things that seem so obvious. Like what . About the amounts you should be eating and taking away that guilt and feeling towards food, and its just about trusting that more than anything else and knowing that actually you do know the answer to these problems. You do know what your body needs. You do know what the right thing to do is in your life, and then just the right thing to do is in your life, and thenjust doing it. And then dealing with it afterwards. Right. Claire, you have had inpatient treatment three times, the first aged 2a for eight months, the second aged 27 for five months and the third which i think i did last summer which was for six months. But this is the first time you have had this is the first time you have had this continuing support as an outpatient. How important has not been to stop you relapsing . outpatient. How important has not been to stop you relapsing . I think it has been a big thing because, yeah, ithink it has been a big thing because, yeah, i think thats where it has gone wrong in the past. You learn the basics in the ward but it is so different at home, so it is learning to carry on and having the support is one of the best things i have had. Georgia, i think it is is one of the best things i have had. Georgia, ithink it is similar to you, twice you have been an inpatient, but again, it is only after the second time you have had the support. The community. After the second time you have had the support l the community. Yeah, the support in the community. Yeah, in hospital it is good for getting you medically well and beginning your recovery but the Real Recovery starts when you get home and you are in the normal life and you dont have the shelter of the hospital to help. Do you think if you had had this kind of Community Support after the first trip to hospital, you wouldnt have relapsed . |j the first trip to hospital, you wouldnt have relapsed . I think that is probably the case because you come out of hospital and you have gone from full time support to nothing. It is very lonely and you feel like you should be better by now so feel like you should be better by now so you feel like you should be better by now so you cant ask for help anymore. There will be some people watching who wont understand why when you go back home after being in hospital, you cant just when you go back home after being in hospital, you cantjust eat. Yeah. Can you explain that, anna, georgia . It is different because it is what we believe which is so different and we believe which is so different and we know we need to eat but when people say, just eat, its not like that, and it is frustrating for us because deep down we know we have to eat but we have Something Else inside us that stopping us eating. If that makes sense. Yeah, it does. And now, how would you describe it . Its like, yeah, you know what the right thing to do is, and you know that in order to get better, in order to have the life that you deserve, that is the thing thats going to make you get to that point. But on top of that, theres the fear of what will happen, all these sort of what will happen, all these sort of irrational worries and fears about what will happen if you actually do that, what will it mean about your identity, you will be out of control and all these other thoughts come into your head. 0ne of control and all these other thoughts come into your head. One of the biggest parts of my recovery was learning to ignore that and learning to trust that my gut feeling, in a way, the irony of that. But learning to listen to that voice rather than the sort of buzzing bee, the jail bars that were the other side of that. Control is a word that comes up a lot when i have talked to people who have an eating disorder. Why does it help you to have that control when you are restricting what to put into your body . control when you are restricting what to put into your body . I think its that you cant control the world, you cant control what happens outside, but you feel like what you put in can be controlled and how you treat yourself. So for me,| and how you treat yourself. So for me, i dont think its always necessarilyjust me, i dont think its always necessarily just about me, i dont think its always necessarilyjust about food and numbers. Im starving myself to punish myself, to not, so that nothing else in the world can bother me because im in control of whats happened to me, no one else can hurt me ifi happened to me, no one else can hurt me if i hurt myself. Happened to me, no one else can hurt me ifi hurt myself. I understand, 0k. Does it inspire you to see anna a year out of treatment after being discharged . Do you think i can do that . Yeah, i hope so. And what words of wisdom, advice, would you give to georgia and claire at this point, if you would indeed, presume to give them any advice, anna . think you both know what to do. I think you both know what to do. I think for me it was when i finally started listening to myself and trusting that things would be ok. Thats the biggest thing. Because actually, for a long time it is worrying who you will be without this, everyone knows me as this person. I am a perfectionist, this, everyone knows me as this person. Lam a perfectionist, i this, everyone knows me as this person. I am a perfectionist, i am x, y, z, and actually, thats not who you are, thats the thing controlling you from who you can become and that person is going to become and that person is going to be so much better, so much better thani be so much better, so much better than i was two years ago. Thank you, anna, thank you very much, thank you georgia, claire, mary, thank you for having us in here. If you want more advice and information you can go to the bbc action line website. Much more to come but lets bring you the weather. We have a changeable week meaning there is some rain in the forecast but also drier and brighter weather at times and temperatures around the average for the time of year, the high teens into the low 20s. Through this morning, we have had some lovely scenes, bit of sunshine in congleton, bit of cloud in the sky, we havent got the sunshine everywhere but High Pressure extending from the south, pushing up across the uk, but you will notice the weather system towards the north west, gradually moving in and thatis north west, gradually moving in and that is what is producing the cloud moving in from western parts of the uk. Sunshine across england and wales, in particular the far north east of scotland and continuing with sunshine into the afternoon. In Northern Ireland, some outbreaks of rain, pushing its way into the west and south west of scotland, through northern parts of england, north wales, north midlands, staying cloudy here, but some sunny midlands, staying cloudy here, but some sunny spells across the far south of england and maximum temperature i7 20d for many Northern Areas, 22 and maybe even 23 celsius in the south. Throughout tonight the rain in the north west becomes a bit more extensive, pushing into scotland, some patchy rain for northern parts of england, bit of drizzle with cloud across Northern Areas. Further south, some clear spells but overnight temperatures getting down to about io ilid, so not as cold as last night, particularly in northern parts of scotland. Into tuesday, high still dominating across the south but it is in Northern Areas where we have these weather systems and that will continue to bring outbreaks of rain throughout tuesday. Some of that could be on the heavy side across scotland. Still some rain on and off at times in Northern England and across Northern Ireland. A few showers drifting into the midlands but generally speaking, anywhere from the midlands southwards there will be some dry weather. A bit of brightness but again, lots of cloud around on tuesday, maximum temperatures 17, may be even 2a degrees in the south. Into the middle part of the week, this area of High Pressure is gradually moving southwards, so we become more under the influence of a westerly wind, continuing to bring in more weather systems. It is going to stay quite u nsettled. Systems. It is going to stay quite unsettled. I think on wednesday and thursday many more of us will probably get a bit of rain at times and some of the rain could be heavy with thunderstorms across scotland. As we go into friday and the weekend thing is becoming a little bit drier, bit more settled for many of us, and those temperatures still in the high teens to low 20s. Bye bye. Today were live from the West Yorkshire Harrogate Adult Eating Disorders Service to give you an insight into the work they do. Weve sat in on a Group Therapy session to see how the service aims to treat patients in the community. Do you want to say what it is about that object that youve picked that makes sense to you about your anorexic identity . Ive picked this which represents being trapped inside my eating disorder, like the real me is trapped inside the illness. Kind of like ive drawn on this picture where i would say this was me when my eating disorder looks nice but its not, you find it is your enemy. This was the reaction to the email from one viewer who said theres a misconception that eating disorders were all about girls with image problems. I think that perception is one of the most dangerous we have. Its something that stopped me seeking help when i was first developing an eating disorder because i was basically portrayed as being an attention seeking teenage girl who was just a attention seeking teenage girl who wasjust a bit attention seeking teenage girl who was just a bit too concerned with how she looked. And in the next hour, well get an insight into how the service treats the most seriously ill patients who get admitted those who do stay for an average of four months. Well meet charly, who was admitted as an inpatient here. I really didnt want to be here. I cried on the way. I didnt want to leave my parents home. I was scared what the other patients would be like, what the staff would be like. But then when i actually got here i think i felt a sense of relief. And well be talking to more of the team who work here, and also to former emmerdale actor gemma 0aten who was diagnosed when she was only ten years old and nearly died four times but has now recovered. Thank you to those of you getting in touch. If you have an eating disorder or a friend or family member, let us know how their treatment and recovery is going, but its been like to access treatment. 0ne viewer says, i went through the child and adolescent Mental Health service in leeds when i was 17 and i was dropped from the service with no back up plan once i turned 18 as i was deemed not poorly enough. Since then ive had no support and recovered entirely on my own over the last five years. So much more needs to be done. Another viewer says, im 72 and i struggle with weight gain. I go up and down like a yo yo. My problem is if i am left alone i will stuff my face. When my husband takes the dog out, im in the kitchen stuffing in as much as i can before he gets back. Im hoping my husband will be back soon. Im a secret eater and i cant control it. But first, heres a summary of the days news with carrie gracie. British airways is facing a record fine of 183 Million Pounds after data belonging to hundreds of thousands of its customers was stolen. The airline said it was surprised and disappointed with the fine, which will be the biggest ever issued by the information commissioners 0ffice. Customers personal and financial details were stolen after British Airways Security Systems were breached last august. President trump has criticised britains ambassador in washington, after emails were leaked in which he called the white house dysfunctional and inept. Mrtrump said Sir Kim Darroch had not served the uk well. Foreign secretaryjeremy hunt says the leak is unacceptable. The Foreign Office has launched an investigation. Waiting lists for routine surgery have risen by up to 50 in parts of england because senior doctors say they cant afford to work extra shifts. Consultants have begun refusing to work beyond their planned hours after receiving unexpected tax bills, following new pension rules in 2016. Nhs hospitals said delays are becoming increasingly routine as a result. The department of health says it aims to solve the problem with more flexible pensions. More than 160,000 people have petitioned the government to introduce tougher sentences for those who cause death by dangerous driving in england and wales. A debate is being held in parliament today, to discuss the issue. In 2017, ministers announced that drivers could face life sentences in the worst cases of dangerous driving but almost two years on, the law hasnt changed. Thank you for your many messages. 0ne viewer says, so brave of all the people to appear on tv to raise awareness of eating disorders. Massive respect. From one male x anorexia sufferer in his 20s. Another viewer says, my daughter was diagnosed with anorexia aged 1a. Its the hardest thing as a parent ive ever dealt with. I had seven children. We were really lucky that we had cams and they were really brilliant, they gave lots of support for the whole family. Another viewer says, ive had an eating disorder, bulimia, since i was 12. I was 21 when i sought help and i received at Home Treatment within two weeks of visiting my gp. I then moved house toa visiting my gp. I then moved house to a different area and ive been on a waiting list for eight months. Ive gone from receiving weekly essential treatment to absolutely nothing for eight months and no one can help me. That is very, very upsetting to read and its an issue, we are going to talk about waiting times and access to treatment in the last half an hour of the programme. Here at the centre, the families of patients are really involved in their care. But its not the same everywhere. The charity, beat, has told this programme exclusively that nice guidelines into how families of people with an eating disorder should be supported are not being properly followed. Theyre today launching new guidance on how it should be done. Im going to introduce you to one family. Roisin mccallion, 23, was diagnosed with anorexia when she was 16 and has had three inpatient stays and is currently an outpatient. Kevin mccallion, roisins dad, is a local leadteacher who struggled to understand his daughters disorder and says the family has gone through hell. Gabrielle mccallion, her mum, who realised roisins difficulties long before doctors. Andrew radford, chief exec, beat, eating Disorder Charity which is issuing guidelines to nhs about how to support families. The team have been providing you with treatment, how are you doing . Im doing all right at the moment. Its a constant struggle and theres still a lot of work to be done. I would say comparatively to where ive been, im in a better place. A point i would always like to get across is just because youre better than you were doesnt mean you are better com pletely than you were doesnt mean you are better completely and its still a struggle for me. How do they help you if you are in oxford on the services in halifax . The treatment largely has been done through duo and phone calls. Ive had biweekly support, once face to face via video link and then once over the phone. That was the interim measure to get me through my exams because i want to be able to finish my degree, ultimately. A big problem ive had throughout my time studying has been being passed from one service to another and not working because of consistency. This year i got to work with the same team throughout rather than being passed from one place to another and thats been really helpful. Could you describe what its like having an eating disorder . Imean, i its like having an eating disorder . I mean, i could go on about that forever. Its a broad question but i think that what i would say really is its all encompassing. So, people think when you hear about an eating disorder, you think about somebody may be getting stressed out sitting at the dinner table or if somebody offers them a piece of cake. For me and basically everyone else i know with an eating disorder, its all the time. It doesnt leave your head. You dont get respite. Ive just started a newjob in oxford working for the Student Union and im going to lots of meetings. Its great and i love myjob but i go to the meeting and there is a plate of sandwiches on the table. Everyone else will just sandwiches on the table. Everyone else willjust think, its a plate of sandwiches but in my head i will be thinking, do i have to eat one, how many calories, where does it fit into my meal plan . If i eat that now what do i eat later . Its a constant juggfing what do i eat later . Its a constant juggling act. I think thats a big pa rt juggling act. I think thats a big part of it, you dont get respite. An eating disorder doesnt take a day off, it doesnt think, youre doing Something Else now so well go away. It sits on your shoulder and continues to nag you and its more about when youre recovering listening to that voice and thinking, shut up, im doing the opposite. What was it like for you when you thought something wasnt right with rushing . Something wasnt right with roisin. I found out through a phone call from the school. It wasnt something i understood or i had any experience of even though ive spent my working life working with young people. To be fair, its something i didnt understand, this doesnt happen to us, what are they talking about, this cant be true. And its something i need to put right as quickly as i can. I am roisins dad andi quickly as i can. I am roisins dad and i am there to fix things and that was my initial confusion, 0k, this is a problem, how do i deal with it . The issue with anorexia is there is no one way to fix it and i didnt realise that at the start. You recognised roisins difficulties before medical professionals did, what did you see . You are officially diagnosed at 16 but you noticed signs at 12. When she was 11, when she was in year six at primary school, that was the first time i was aware roisin had difficulties. It started when they were weighing the children in year six. They were talking about bmi and everything. Roisin at that time was very, very sporty. She was on every team imaginable, she loved sport. But she had picked up from the tv that people who did sport could actually have a higher bmi because of their muscle and she calculated all this in her head and she was hysterical saying, i dont want to be weighed, i dont want to get into school and be weighed. I went into school and said, i dont want you to weigh her, shes really upset about it. That was unusual behaviour for an 11 year old. Was unusual behaviour for an 11yearold. I remember this happening and i can remember even earlier than that, this kind of fixation with being 0k. The school side of things is really important because im a perfectionist and academically, academia is my love and ive loved school and by weighing children in school and bringing this idea of you can be right, i saw fitting a bmi from that age as this is how i get my a. I need to be the a grade of weight. I was so need to be the a grade of weight. I was so frightened to be weight and i can remember how scared i was of being weighed, thinking im not in the top set, because that had never happened to me. It played on the perfectionist tendencies and continued throughout my life until very, very recently with a bit of a breakthrough in therapy. Youve already explained you didnt know about eating disorders but where the points where he felt futile, where the points where you set your daughter, just eat some definitely. Theres an element of that that is in my character, which is we are going to sort this and get through it. Whats the problem, lets find a way of dealing with this. We did get some way of dealing with this. We did get some conflicting advice in the early stages of dealing with the disorder and part of the advice to me was we will take her on and challenge the behaviours. It was actually the wrong thing for me to be doing but at the time it felt to be the right thing. For me, the answer was obvious but when in fact the answer is far from obvious and far from straightforward. If i could go back to those days and offer myself some advice, it would be its not your fault and you cant fix it overnight. This is going to take time and you need to listen and i just want to do something. Can i ask you about the hot chocolate sashay test sachet test. You about the hot chocolate sashay test sachet test. I had friends with eating disorders and a friend of mine was in hospital with an eating disorder. I thought i was quite aware and when i was in sixth form things had taken a real turn andi form things had taken a real turn and i had started heavily restricting my diet. There was part of me thinking, this isnt right, but i couldnt do anything. I brought in a small sachet of hot chocolate and put it in the trolley at the supermarket and i said to myself, if you can drink this hot chocolate, you dont have an eating disorder. Its not a problem, you arejust on a disorder. Its not a problem, you are just on a diet. If you cant drink it, maybe this has crossed over. I tried for weeks and i wouldnt accept that the first day i couldnt do it meant, i thought, ill do it, ill do it. It must have been there for a month and i rememberfeeling so been there for a month and i remember feeling so hopeless. Been there for a month and i rememberfeeling so hopeless. At that point i turned to my mum and said, ithink that point i turned to my mum and said, i think something is wrong because i cant eat. Im going to bring in Andrew Radford, chief executive of beat. There are nice guidelines into how families of people with eating disorders should be supported and you say they are being properly followed. Weve done some being properly followed. Weve done some research and it shows that stories of despair and hopelessness are being felt by hundreds, thousands of parents across the country. There was a common theme of helplessness but determination and drive to do something about it. Meanwhile, the nice guidelines say eating Disorder Services should be engaging with parents but the parents themselves say that isnt happening. Beat will speak to 30,000 people this year and that is a common theme. Why isnt it happening . I think its the system at fault. Eating disorders professionals are amazing and want to be the right thing by their patients but they dont have the time or resources to do it effectively. What youve got is an amazing resource. Parents of people with eating disorders are amazing, they have to go through hell but they, determined to do right by their loved one. If you can take that energy and determination to Work Together between the service on the parents to help the young person, that young person will get better faster, they will stay better longer and it will save nhs resources to help more people. What we are doing is issuing guidance to say this is how you do it, we will help. In the last couple of minutes, i want to briefly talk about the fa ct i want to briefly talk about the fact that when you were at university it was recommended you should be admitted to hospital but the only bed, you are at university in oxford but the only bed that can be found for you was in edinburgh. So, your mum rang beat, they gave you a list of Inpatient Services and you a list of Inpatient Services and you got your gp to ring round, is that right, to find a bed . Roisin knew more about it than me but we we re knew more about it than me but we were all ringing around, all looking at different options. Then we were told we had to get a referral, we couldnt do it has parents, she had to go through the gp system. When we got to gp level, i think it was leeds at that point had eight bed and we went over and it was a six week waiting list. And we went over and it was a sixweek waiting list. This was in march, i have been sent home from university, told i was going to be an inpatient, and then got told weve got a bed, you can have it but its in may. I spiralled. I ended up probably in the place i came home was the place i went back to university because that waiting period left me alone to spiral. I remember going round, we made a list of all the services in the country and e mailed and rang them all because i didnt have a key work at home because the service hadnt started in halifax. The gp wasjust having to ring round. I remember coming out of a gp appointment in tea rs coming out of a gp appointment in tears because she said she had found mea tears because she said she had found me a bed because i was so desperate for someone to help me. At that point, that is a vivid memory for me there. Thank you so much for being so there. Thank you so much for being so open and honest. As weve established today, anorexia can put your life at risk. According to the nhs its one of the leading causes of death related to Mental Health problems eitherfrom physical complications or suicide. Where we are today is where Outpatient Services are based, but weve also visited the Services Inpatient ward at the seacroft hospital in leeds where they can treat 19 of the most seriously ill patients at a time. It costs £400 a day to treat someone on the ward and theyll stay for an average of 110 days or around four months. Thats £411, 000. 20 year old sam townson showed me around the ward, where he has been receiving treatment for anorexia since november last year. Just so much going on in your head and you feel a bitjust out of control, even though it starts off as trying to find more control. I was severely underweight, just feeling completely hopeless. You want to change, but at that point, when youre so starved, your thinking isnt really. Youre not able to make changes. I think, when i came, i was quite nervous about coming in and was quite daunted by the thought of it. And i think i was probably connected to some of the conceptions i had. I really didnt want to be here. I cried on the way. I didnt want to leave my parents home. I was scared what the patients would be like, what the staff would be like. But then when i actually got here, i think i felt a sense of relief. So, this is ward six at the newsam centre. So itsjust like. Like a normal hospital ward, inpatient ward. Yeah. So there are 19 beds here, arent there . So two bed rooms for men. Yeah. And obviously the rest for women. Lets have a look at some of these rooms, sam, if thats all right. Yeah, thats fine. So whats this . Its called the interview room, which sounds a bit formal. So what you would have, you might have therapy in here . Yeah, like one to one sessions to talk over how youre feeling. 0k. Now obviously i can see a mirror, which is facing the wall. So this is used for mirror exposure. You would look at a certain part of your body and explain how you are feeling around that section. I see. And what sort of feelings you would assign to that, or emotions and things like that. Whats next door . So next door, weve got the medical room. After you. Hey, you all right . Hi there. Hi. Hi, sam. Come on in. Hi, victoria. Hey, nice to see you again. And this is the medical room. What would go on in here . When people first come in, theyre often very physically unwell, so well keep a close eye on the physical health. So a few people will occasionally need nasogastric feeding. Thats feeding with a tube in the nose . Thats right, yes. So very occassionally, well have to do that, particularly if someones really unwell. What we try and do is get people back onto normal diets as quickly as possible. That can be quite stressful for people. How do you stop people potentially pulling the tube out of their nose . Sometimes that does happen. I suppose its supporting people through that process. I think one of the key bits of treat with anorexia is empowering people to make those decisions themselves. Ok, lets have a look at some of the other equipment in the medical room. We have here, obviously, some scales. You are looking for patients to restore how much weight on a weekly basis . Roughly about two pounds a week. And you have been here for seven months. Yeah. Has it become easier to step on the scales . Yeah, definitely. I think there is a big shift from when you first come in, to accepting whats happened. Cos i think, as you do go through treatment, the sort of anorexic thoughts and the power of those do go down. Thank you for telling us about that. Thank you, reece. Thank you. Hello, everyone. Hi. So, this is charly. Hi, charly. How are you . Hi, im victoria. Nice to meet you. Now, i gather youve very kindly offered to show us your room, your own bedroom. Yeah, my bedroom. Cool lets do it, then. Thank you. See you, sam, see you in a bit. This is obviously the corridor for women in their bedrooms. Yeah, one of the womens. Youve got your own sink, wardrobe, single bed, youve got your stuff. And this is your kind of sanctuary, i suppose. Yeah. Youve got some little cards on your notice board which are sort of motivating sentences. Lets have a look at those, tell us about those. 0n mondays and thursdays, we get weighed, which i guess can be a more difficult day or time. And every morning at breakfast, we got our own milk quota for the day and different patients will leave a little quote for everyone on their milk. What would you say is your favourite . Could you pick one . Difficult to pick one, but i like this one. A champion is defined not by their wins, but by how they recover when they fall. It resonates because just because youve had an eating disorder, it doesnt mean that you cant go on to have a really good life. And this isjust a small portion of my life, i guess i hope. At some point you will leave here. Youve been here since november. Yeah. And you will leave this bedroom, hopefully, and never come back. Yeah, hopefully. And go home to your parents. Thats the plan. Yeah, thats the plan. How will you feel on that day . I think itll be a mixture of emotions. Ithink. Happiness to be leaving, cos its not always the easiest thing being here. I think therell be a bit fear about whats to come and wanting to stay well and keep on yourjourney of recovery. When will that day be . 0r dont you know . I dont know. Its hard to say. I think theres a lot of different factors. And is it your decision . It is for the most part. Most people commit to a programme and will see that through and that will kind of come to a natural conclusion, but we are informal patients, most of us. Informal . Informal. Which means you can walk out at any time . Yeah, in theory, but i dont think most people would do that, i guess. Throughout the day, there are set meal times that charly and the other patients must stick to, with some having extra snack times if agreed by the dietician. Right, lets go meet one of the members of staff. Hi, leah. Obviously its different for each patient, but what is a typical lunch . So when people first come in, theyll go into something called stage one and they always start on half portions of food. So, as you can see, there is only one sausage, theres only one scoop of mashed potato. Compare that to a full plate. So theyve got two portions of fish for this lunch option, two scoops of mashed potato and then more vegetables as well. And the idea being, obviously, you would build up from that to that. Yeah. We will offer feedback about how they are eating, if theres any behaviours that week and see that going on, well try challenge that. Some people hide food. People can hide it by wearing long sleeves. And why do you give time limits as well . So, in everyday life, for people without an eating disorder, it doesnt take an hour to eat a main meal, so it is to try bringing back the normality of a normal eating day. Really, really struggling. Thank you very much, leah. I really appreciate it. A massive part of being here is learning again how to trust yourself in what youre doing and the decisions youre making. When youre that ill, you almost see yourself as superhuman in a way, a bit invincible and, like, special, almost like you dont need to eat in order to survive, which obviously isnt true. I feel like complete different person to who i was six months ago. Being here and a lot of the work you do for therapy can help you reconnect with your identity and maybe who you were. Thank you for showing me around the hospital in leeds. Viewers on bbc two are leaving us now do switch to the bbc news channel if you want to keep watching. Jane has been in hospital 15 times and is currently getting help from the community team. Good morning. I wonder if you can give an insight into what its like to have an eating disorder, to have anorexia forfour eating disorder, to have anorexia for four decades. Its been a nightmare and its become a way of life because ive been ill longer than ive been well and i know no other way of life now except the eating disorder. And how does it affect your daily routine . Its a lwa ys affect your daily routine . Its always on my mind. Every morning i have to take my so called medication, food, three times a day at least. It is always there in my mind. Occasionally i can let it slip by doing other things but then it a lwa ys by doing other things but then it always comes back and hits me. How has it affected your life its affected my life immensely. Its destroyed some relationships, like my marriage. Its made it hard to make friends and socialise at times. Why . Because my selfconfidence has been very low, my self esteem. I dont want to go out for meals with friends in the past because i dont wa nt to friends in the past because i dont want to eat in front of other people. I dont want other people to see me because i look so thin. Its affected all my life, i think. My relationship with my parents is very good still but it has affected them as well. You have been in hospital at least 15 times. Yes. Is it fair, then, to suggest that the treatment youve had is not good enough, has failed you . The treatment i had initially in the early days was absolutely awful compared to what it is now. There have been great advancements in treatment. What was it like back then . I was usually admitted to an acute psychiatric ward, which was quite noisy, it was very violent at times. There was no one else with an eating disorder. They didnt know what eating disorders were really at that time. As you mentioned earlier, we we re that time. As you mentioned earlier, we were spoiled, attention seeking girls. The treatment was very punitive. You were literally there to put weight on, there were no talking therapies or counselling. You will almost forcefully fed huge amounts of food and drink to get weight on, and once you got to that weight on, and once you got to that weight you were sent back into the community, discharged. When you say forcefully fed, what do you mean . The food was brought to me, there we re the food was brought to me, there were times when i was literally told ifi were times when i was literally told if i didnt drink things myself it would be poured down my throat. There was a punishment and reward system where if you gained a bit of weight each week you would get a reward such as being allowed out of your room to watch television for an hour, youd be able to listen to the radio for an hour. So, yes, hour, youd be able to listen to the radio foran hour. So, yes, it hour, youd be able to listen to the radio for an hour. So, yes, it was a very punishing sort of treatment. So, how you had what is available now then you think perhaps it wouldnt have ta ken now then you think perhaps it wouldnt have taken over your life for a0 years . Wouldnt have taken over your life for 40 years . I honestly believe i would have made a recovery a lot sooner. Would have made a recovery a lot sooner. The treatment has just come on so sooner. The treatment has just come on so far. Ive had recent experience of the treatment available now and it is just so experience of the treatment available now and it isjust so much different. There is so much more understanding of the illness. It is so understanding of the illness. It is so specialised now. There is a whole tea m so specialised now. There is a whole team of doctors, nurses, dietitians working together. Yes. When would you make a decision to admit someone to hospital with an eating disorder . There is two main scenarios. When people are in such a risky state in terms of their physical health as well as their Psychological Health it might not be safe to treat someone it might not be safe to treat someone in the community. Eating disorders have one of the highest mortality rates of any mental disorder, and i think the physical consequences sometimes can be lethal. I think that is the place for inpatient treatment but the other scenario would be when Community Treatment hasnt been successful, we can step up care in different ways in the community, see people more frequently at home, but sometimes people need a period of treatment on an inpatient unit or a ward, but it is also thinking at the point of inpatient treatment and admission, we are always thinking about discharge and what treatment could be like and should be like for that person when they leave. I think thats maybe something that didnt happen in the past. It costs £400 a day per patient, average state 110 days, why does it cost so much to be in hospital . Average stay. Days, why does it cost so much to be in hospital . Average stay. It is the 24 7 care and the cost of staffing, catering, everything around that therapy. Whereas community is cheaper but if you look at the evidence post comparing inpatient with community there are quite similar in many ways and Community Treatment is our preference really simple because you are treating people in their natural environment. Hospital isnt and i think there is a time and place for hospital treatment. But actually, our focus is really treating hospital treatment. But actually, ourfocus is really treating people in an environment where they are going to continue theirjourney and recovery in the longer term. Thinking about treatment in the community, it is more natural. M thinking about treatment in the community, it is more natural. It is more realistic, isnt it . Yes. That is how you have got to live and move forward. What skills are you taught, jane, in order not to relax . When you are an inpatient and in the community you learn learning skills, coping skills, you learn to recognise things that are going to trigger a relapse. And you learn how to cope with the stresses which everybody else who is Walking Around can cope with. You learn also things like how to relax in stressful situations. Do you recall back then why you think you developed an eating disorder . Ive had it for so long, i dont think i can even rememberwhyl long, i dont think i can even remember why i originally had it. I can think of things that contributed towards it, the fact i was a perfectionist, quite a high achiever, i always wanted good standards and high achievements. The fa ct standards and high achievements. The fact that i did ballet. There were loads of things that contributed to it. Now ive learned that the triggers are when im under stress, stressful situations can cause me to relapse a bit. But ive also learned of ways to deal with that. Thank you so of ways to deal with that. Thank you so much. How do you feel about the future, jane . Im feeling very positive. As far as the treatment is concerned, the treatment is Getting Better all the time, it has improved greatly since i first became ill but there are still room for improvements. Thank you. Im going to read some messages. I might read them to the next group of people if thats all right but thank you, jane and rhys. I know that you are coming to chat to us over here as well. There are so many issues when it to getting treatment. We have talked about some of them. Waiting times, gaps between child and Adult Services. Gps are sometimes not recognising eating disorders when someone recognising eating disorders when someone is presented to them. Patients who have been tweeting me today have been told thered bmi is not low enough, not high enough for treatment. Lets talk about all of theseissues treatment. Lets talk about all of these issues now. We have sue barnes, sues daughter kayleigh died last year aged 29. Kayleigh was anorexic and died of multiple organ failure as a result of her eating disorder. Also with us, valerie connor, who is 26, has anorexia and condemns the gulf between child and aduu condemns the gulf between child and Adult Services and says that caused her to relapse. Gemma 0aten, former emmerdale actor, who has been diagnosed with anorexia. When her pa rents first diagnosed with anorexia. When her parents first took her to the gp, he said she didnt have a problem. We have got Andrew Radford from beat, the eating Disorder Charity. Daniel glennon, who works for the nhs, the specialist Clinical Services lead from the Nhs Foundation trust and rhysjones is from the Nhs Foundation trust and rhys jones is going from the Nhs Foundation trust and rhysjones is going tojoin us again ina rhysjones is going tojoin us again in a moment. Aged 17, i think, rhysjones is going tojoin us again in a moment. Aged 17, ithink, you felt medical professionals did care about you and your illness. Turning 18, you say things have changed. Basically, what had happened is up until the age of 17 i was with child and adolescent services for my anorexia and that treatment went significantly well. The point where i turned 18 i have suffered a relapse and my eating disorder changed from anorexia to bulimia. Ifound disorder changed from anorexia to bulimia. I found that there was a gap in the services in that i wasnt taken seriously gap in the services in that i wasnt ta ken seriously enough gap in the services in that i wasnt taken seriously enough at all. I was essentially left to my own devices. I had to pay for my own treatment out of pocket. You were turned away because you werent deemed to be underweight by the Adult Services and thats when you relapsed. Thats when i relapsed, yes. My time at cams had seen me get to a bare minimum healthy weight. But the point where i turned 18, itjust seemed like overnight i didnt qualify for the treatment overnight. How did you feel about that . Devastated, gutted. And my dad was as well. I just devastated, gutted. And my dad was as well. Ijust remember him breaking down because he knew that the route that i was going down, more so the route that i was going down, more so than i did, and the gap in treatment, it was just shocking, absolutely shocking. Let me read some messages. Amanda says, my child was diagnosed at 13 with anorexia and since then we have been through three inpatient admissions and outpatient treatment that was so appalling it was negligent. Im a single parent and was left to look after her alone. I wish we had the service you are featuring. We are in halifax today, i may have mentioned West Yorkshire and harrogate a number of times but this is the Service Going on in this part of the country, West Yorkshire and harrogate. Emily tweets thank you for emphasising how someone can look physically well but still be internally tormented day in and day out. It is something many sufferers will struggle to open up about. But incredibly important for the wider public to try and understand. Gemma, when your parents took you to yourgp, he didnt gemma, when your parents took you to your gp, he didnt recognise there was a problem. Why not . your gp, he didnt recognise there was a problem. Why not . I started to withdraw and started eating less at the age of ten and my mum and dad picked up quickly on the warning signs and they took me to the gp, who said i wasnt low enough in weight to have a problem, it will be fine and its just weight to have a problem, it will be fine and itsjust a phase. Long story short, two years later i was admitted to a childrens psychiatric unit and given 24 hours to live if i didnt eat or drink. One of the biggest things i hope this programme will highlight is Early Intervention is key. The longer we wait to treat somebody with an eating disorder than more of a hold it has on that person and waiting for the weight to change doesnt change what is already there. Is that true, the longer somebody has an eating disorder before they are treated, the longer they will take to recover . Absolutely. As with most disorders, the earlier you get in there, the better the outcomes, and so we there, the better the outcomes, and so we set up an Early Intervention service for eating disorders and it was quite surprising, why we hadnt done this before. We found that if we get in there early, if people can come to treatment early and we can provide a service that is friendly and open and warm, and they can come and open and warm, and they can come and get evidence based treatment, that they will go on to live their lives a lot quicker. Dave says my daughter has been in intensive care for 21 months waiting foran intensive care for 21 months waiting for an eating disorder specific unit to. She has been 170 miles from home since she was 15. Very little progress made, sedated and managed is the best i can describe her treatment as. That is really shocking, is it not, andrew . M treatment as. That is really shocking, is it not, andrew . It is horrible, and sadly it is not that unusual. It is the extreme end of things but it is not unusual. We know that on average people wait three and a half years from falling ill to starting treatment and there is no need for it to be that long. Julie says im concerned about lack of anorexic treatment for my child, bmi was too high, no treatment, bmi is now too low for treatment. The impact on her Mental Health is devastating. It is left to families to manage and we are not experts. Ive just realised earlier the lady who was saying i wish we had this service you are featuring down in london, thats what she was saying. Cani london, thats what she was saying. Can ijust london, thats what she was saying. Can i just say, london, thats what she was saying. Can ijust say, victoria, and we need to say it before the end, ive been talking to rhys and mary who are with connect and freed, i have been recovered for 13 years and was appalled at what we went through and people are going through, but you are really changing the system, and ive just been in there with the girls and one of them has broken her heart because she thinks she doesnt deserve to be here. And you are helping her understand that she does and this is what the government and cams and resources need to be provided for, to change peoples perceptions and help girls like that who are breaking down thinking they are not worthy of being here. Who are breaking down thinking they are not worthy of being harem cant keep going on. Absolutely. Can i make cant keep going on. Absolutely. Can imakea cant keep going on. Absolutely. Can i make a couple of comments . Of course. Speaking to rhys it was amazing to find people moving away from those stiff, hard guidelines of bmi. We cant dictate to people their treatment by their bmi, by their treatment by their bmi, by their blood results, by their sugar levels, but everything else. My daughter, very sadly, was mismanaged from her first diagnosis at 18. She was ill before that and u nfortu nately we was ill before that and unfortunately we werent able to access cams, which was through no fault of the gp, it was the Mental Health team. She languished on a medical ward for many months before she was moved to an eating disorder unit. She was then thrust into a secure unit which is a toxic environment at best. Damaging, very, very damaging. That was the progress. 11 years later, my daughter lost her life. She lost her life not because of the care she received at the end but the failing of the treatment at the beginning. So, kayleigh was an amazing, intelligent, erudite, beautiful, caring young lady who was let down bya caring young lady who was let down by a service. But again, and i totally agree with gemma here. Dont. You will start totally agree with gemma here. Dont. You will start me off i totally agree with gemma that the service and move forwards that is being made by the psychiatrists in the treatment of this illness are what is going to save the lives of our children. Thank you. You know, for most people it is unimaginable what kayleigh, your daughter, went through and what you went through. Can you describe what it is like to lose your daughter, effectively her organs shut down as a result of an eating disorder . What can i say . Its the biggest fear, its the most painful thing you will ever experience. Its the greatest loss and there is a huge hole in my heart. I manage to get through each day by having a mission. My mission is to bring to the area i come from, which is the isle of wight, a group, and gemma is going to help me as well, for parents, carers and friends because there are so many isolated pockets in this country that dont provide any support. If your daughter is taken, as mine was, to another part of the country to be treated, you cant afford to travel there. And if you can, you cant get there. And if you can, you cant get there between six and seven when the pa rents there between six and seven when the parents meeting is, so you are cast adrift. You look to charities and beat and other websites to find the support you need and it doesnt exist where you need it. You need this. You need the warmth of another human being beside you. My life will never be the same. But i have a mission. And my mission is to save at least one person and that is what we will do. That is where we come together. We were saying last night, this is how we all survive and cope and help others. We are all on a mission. My mum and dad helped set up mission. My mum and dad helped set upa mission. My mum and dad helped set up a charity to help carers and not the sufferers at that point because of what you have been through and all of us have gone through and all of us are starting to come together but it shouldnt just of us are starting to come together but it shouldntjust be down to us, should it . Absolutely not. I want to talk about the fact that there are waiting time targets for treating children with eating disorders but not waiting time targets for treating adults. Why not . Thats a good point. For some reason we have a system that has been set up that for under 185 you are in one service and over 185 you are in another 5ervice and over 185 you are in another service and this is what create5 and over 185 you are in another service and this is what creates the gap5 service and this is what creates the gaps and we are all fighting very ha rd gaps and we are all fighting very hard to ensure that we get that same fairne55 for under 185 as over 185, and we have worked hard in freed and pa rt of and we have worked hard in freed and part of freely i5 and we have worked hard in freed and part of freely is trying to close gap for people below 18 and over 18 because we know that 50 of people presenting for the first time are under18 and 50 presenting for the first time are under 18 and 50 of people presenting for the first time are over presenting for the first time are over 18. Thats interesting because again there is the perception it is teenagers. Yes and actually it is not. The majority of presentations are up to 25 years of age. not. The majority of presentations are up to 25 years of age. I would say three years ago the government grasped the metal for children and adolescents in england and over those three years, what has happened is if you are a child starting with an eating disorder things have improved no end. It used to be they we re improved no end. It used to be they were equivalently bad for children and adults. Now the Childrens Services in england are improving dramatically and we are getting to a point where 80 of people who full ill as a child are starting treatment within four weeks of attending their gp. For adults it is still rock bottom and nhs england are looking at it and what we need to do is keep pressure on them so they publish the guidance that has been given to them so that the Adult Services can start equalising upwards so they are providing the same standard for adults as children get and then we need to look at the rest of the uk because its notjust about england. We are told that with the nhs Long Term Plan it is committed to extending Current Service models, whatever that means, to create a comprehensive offer for 025 to create a comprehensive offer for 0 25 year olds. To create a comprehensive offer for 025 yearolds. But we need resources as part of that. The nhs also tell us they have an extra £2 billion going into Mental Health service by 2023. Can we see it because that would be great. Can i justjump in. Because that would be great. Can i just jump in. Obviously, because that would be great. Can i justjump in. Obviously, im from scotla nd justjump in. Obviously, im from scotland and i can speak for the sort of treatment we get up in scotland. Like you rightly said, obviously fried is here in england. Up obviously fried is here in england. Up in scotland, every service that seems to have a high success rate, it is all in edinburgh. It is shocking. There is not enough time or resources or thought put into the Actual Service and the quality of ca re Actual Service and the quality of care from cams to Adult Services, it is like heaven and hell. This is what the Scottish Government say. They say they are going to launch scottish specific guidelines for eating disorder treatments which will look at access, especially for people in remote areas, and also create a blueprint for how they respond to diagnosed cases of eating disorders. I would love to see that. You will be pleased to know we are 5peaking you will be pleased to know we are speaking to scotland and communicating whether freed would fit up there 50 it is happening. wonder if i can ask you all more about the reasons why people develop eating disorders. They are many and complex. It is never down to one particular reason, or one reason alone. What would you say, gemma, if you even know . Ive been through year5 you even know . Ive been through years of therapy now 50 i get it. Mine stemmed from years of therapy now so i get it. Mine stemmed from bullying and also being a high achiever, and i felt like i was living these two different lives where i was pushed up different lives where i was pushed up and constantly pulled down and i felt like i had no control over what people said or did to me, but i could control something. But also, the other side of it was my anorexia developed when i was going through puberty, and obviously when i started to lose weight, in my head i lost my breasts, my period, my hips, i became that little girl that i thought in my head was happy. But it is ultimately about control and this perception of it being, as we touched on at the start of the programme, vanity. I didnt read a magazine and see a supermodel and decide i want to look like her. Ive said it before, i used to read like a mix and i definitely didnt want to look like the beano it is something that is there and needs to be treated as a person, an individual, and there are so many girls and boys out there who are treated as an eating disorder. We are still a person. Does social media come into it and how much so . I would say, for myself, im 26, i didnt really have social media growing up but i have seen more and more in my work as an ambassador for beat, that things like instagram, snapchat, and facebook are portraying these images of people that are just photoshopped and trimmed and so on and so forth and its creating this ridiculous standard of perception help people, young people in particular, think i should look like that. Do you think the link is a simple as that . That would then lead somebody to potentially restrict what they eat . I dont think it is ever quite as simple as that. There is something already there. There is always something there. For myself, i come from a very dramatic background and thatis from a very dramatic background and that is why i developed an eating disorder, but growing up i had magazines. I didnt look at a magazines. I didnt look at a magazine and suddenly think, ok, i wa nt to magazine and suddenly think, ok, i want to look like this person. It was always about the control for me. Amy says thank you for covering eating disorders today. My 11 year old daughter has been diagnosed with early anorexia. What does that mean . Early anorexia . M probably refers to anorexia at a very young age. I went to the gp and took my daughter, we got a referral took my daughter, we got a referral to an eating disorder specialist and we saw them in four weeks for an assessment and had the first session after another four weeks and then a dietician. The time between finding out im seeing the specialist was absolutely terrifying for me as a parent. I have three children and there isnt much i havent experienced from friends. I have no experienced from friends. I have no experience to deal with this at all, which is what kevin said earlier, no experience to deal with this, and this is why your programme is so important. Thank you for all you are doing to raise awareness and bust the myths around anorexia. Charlotte says, thank you for covering the important subject of eating disorders in such depth. So many people think this is just people being vain or lacking control in their life. I am currently battling a Binge Eating Disorder and it takes over every aspect of your life. Please remember that eating disorders are notjust anorexia. I am paying for my own treatment which ican am paying for my own treatment which i can afford to do and have been on the waiting list for an nhs appointment for over a year. This is something we need to fund as a country if we are serious about improving peoples physical and Mental Health and the centre featured on your Programme Today is brilliant. Thank you for making us all aware of the wonderful work they do. Can ijust say all aware of the wonderful work they do. Can i just say that from a pa re nts do. Can i just say that from a parents point of view as well, you think as a parent you can do anything, you are there and you can work magic but you cant. I wanted somebody to come along and fix my daughter, i knew she had a problem andi daughter, i knew she had a problem and i knew she was seriously ill and i desperately wanted somebody to help me and every time i put my trust in somebody that trust was let down, not just trust in somebody that trust was let down, notjust for trust in somebody that trust was let down, not just for me trust in somebody that trust was let down, notjust for me but for my daughter as well. So for the pa rents, daughter as well. So for the parents, i would say seek support for yourself because i know, and i know this is true of gemmas mother as well, it affects you, i have developed fibromyalgia as has gemmas mother because of the shock that you go through, and i always say to people that as a mother the first thing you do for your child is you feed, clothe and cosset it and what anorexia does is it stripped it away from you and you lose that right as a parent to look after your child in the way you always naturally do. Parents need to look after themselves and seek help and support for themselves as well. wa nt to support for themselves as well. want to spend the last few minutes of the programme talking about what has to change and how it will change. I have already said the government is putting £2 billion extra into the nhs to deal specifically with the Mental Health side of things by 2022 23. What do you feel that money should be spent on, reece . I think you feel that money should be spent on, reece . Ithink the you feel that money should be spent on, reece . I think the starting point is thinking of doing the simple things well, so like fried, which we have adopted up here in connect as well, seeing people quickly and having a caring approach, simple stuff that anybody who doesnt necessarily specialise in eating disorders and Mental Health would know. Dont wait for the bmi, just get them in . Thats one of the most important things and the answer to most of the questions today and anything to do with eating disorders is training. I think that can bust some of the myths around eating disorders. Some really negative views. Training for who . Gps . Gps get about two hours training when it comes to eating disorders. And in medical schools, doctor training, if they are lucky, some of the schools do half an hour but mostly you will go through training asa but mostly you will go through training as a doctor and have nothing to do with eating disorders at all. I know it is very true and i think most people who end up working in eating disorders, whether that is medics, nursing, dieticians, therapists, may not have met anybody with an eating disorder up until that point, and i think there is a lot of stigma out there, both in terms of in the general population but sadly also in health care as well about eating disorders. That is pa rt of well about eating disorders. That is part of the work we are trying to do. Do share that microphone. There isa do. Do share that microphone. There is a stigma amongst Health Care Professionals . Is a stigma amongst Health Care Professionals . Meaning what . They dont recognise it . They dont recognise it and there is a misunderstanding about what eating disorders are actually about four people and they dont understand, bit like the quote you gave earlier, it is notjust about body shape and weight. On this point, we have a tweet, thank you for highlighting this is such a fight and all consuming. The main thing im getting is as a parent im not alone, i can relate to the stories on your programme so much alone, i can relate to the stories on your programme so much but gps need more training. When i was first diagnosed with anorexia by my gp, he actually said on the way out of the appointment, dont worry, we will get you nice and fat like me soon. My goodness when my daughter was on a medical ward and she was at end of life and the comments that were made and the misconceptions by co nsulta nts and the misconceptions by consultants were phenomenal. They just didnt want to understand Mental Health. They didnt want her on their word because it was a medical ward, she didnt belong there. We are doing a lot with gps, health professionals, maudsley learning, we are doing some training coming up to raise awareness for anybody that might be interested, whether you are a teacher, school nurse, gp, orwork whether you are a teacher, school nurse, gp, or work in general hospitals, because there is this misconception. I think people are trying their best and the problem is the system is very fragmented and what we are trying to do is pull the syste m what we are trying to do is pull the system together around the person. Everyone doesnt want to do harm at the end of the day. It is about trying their best. Gps want to do a good job, the problem is half of them havent been trained properly, but they do want to do a good job andi but they do want to do a good job and i would encourage anybody who thinks they have an eating disorder or their loved one, the way to get treatment is to go to your gp and you need to tell them you need a specialist assessment in order to get that treatment. If you are worried about call beats helpline and we will talk you through how to get the treatment. What advice would you give to anybody struggling right now and i dont know what to do . You have just touched on it, we cannot change the system right here right now but there is beat, connect, fried at my charity seed, what sue has set up and other helplines to support you while the whole mess is set up and recovery is possible. Thank you all very much and we appreciate your time. If you want help, contact the bbc is an action line, there are loads of organisations that can help you. Thank you bbc. Co. Uk actionline. For your insights and your company. Back tomorrow at 10am. Some other started with a bit of sunshine this morning but there has been a beenafairamount been a fair amount of cloud throughout the morning and we have rain moving through Northern Ireland at the moment as well. Throughout this week it is going to be changeable, they will be sunny spells, bit of rain and temperatures about the average for the time of year. The rain across Northern Ireland is edging eastwards into the south west of scotland through the irish sea, but for most of us it is going to be dry, the best sunshine across southern going to be dry, the best sunshine across southern areas going to be dry, the best sunshine across southern areas of england and north east of scotland, maximum temperature 16 19dc in the north, up to about 22 or 23 degrees in the south. Tonight that area of rain will get a bit heavier as it moves further east across scotland coming to northern parts of england and north wales. Lots of cloud tonight, not as cold as last night, particularly in scotland, temperature staying up in double figures. Throughout tuesday, quite u nsettled figures. Throughout tuesday, quite unsettled again in Northern Areas, including northern parts of england with some outbreaks of rain. Further south, there will be some dry weather and sunny spells. Those temperatures in the high teens to low 20s. Bye bye. Youre watching bbc newsroom live its11am and these are the main stories this morning heather mills, the former wife of sir paul mccartney, settles with the news of the world for a substa ntial sum over the phone hacking scandal. British airways is facing a record fine of 183 Million Pounds over a data breach involving hundreds of thousands of customers. Donald trump hits back at the uks ambassador to washington, after leaked emails described his presidency as inept and dysfunctional. We will have an enquiry. I hope we get to the bottom of it and order for a course there will be very serious consequences if we find out who is responsible. Families whove lost loved ones to dangerous drivers say theyve