Transcripts For BBCNEWS BBC News At Five 20240714

John worboys, the black cab rapist who was almost freed from jail, pleads guilty to drugging four more women so he could sexually assault them. Campaigners win a legal challenge over the British Governments decision to allow arms sales to saudi arabia. And prince harry and meghan are to set up their own foundation after breaking away from the charity which they had run with Prince William and kate. Good afternoon. Borisjohnson remains on course to be the next Prime Minister. In the fourth round of voting by conservative mps for a new leader, he topped the ballot with 157 votes. Michael gove came second with 61 votes whilejeremy hunt secured 59 votes. The home secretary, sajid javid, was knocked out in the lunchtime vote, managing just 3a votes. Voting in the next round is now well underway, and the two mps with the highest number of votes will go forward to a run off of the partys 160,000 or so members. Were expecting the final vote of mps at 6 15pm, and we will, of course, be bringing that to you live. Leadership races can be a political marathon, but this week has been more of a sprint. A breathless few days for the men who want to be our Prime Minister. Morning. In an hour, well find out the final two candidates who could be responsible for huge decisions that will affect all our lives. Suited and booted, serious face on, he was off to try and win what could be crucial last minute support. Are you feeling confident you can beat borisjohnson . Yes, im feeling very confident today. I had a wonderful level of support yesterday from my parliamentary colleagues. Im looking forward to making it through to the final two, and looking forward to a civilised debate of ideas to ensure that we can make this country better. And it might have worked. Hes currently in second place. Also in training to be pm, butjeremy hunt has fallen into third place now. This morning, he seemed confident he could keep up the pace. Im feeling confident, but not overconfident. People have said im not going to do well but each time i have exceeded expectations. I need my supporters to come and say, yes, we can do better than borisjohnson as the next Prime Minister of our country. May the best man win, and thats going to be me. Both of them still trying to catch the front runner. Not out for a morning jog, but in a hurry nevertheless. Borisjohnson now has the backing of more than half of tory mps. Most think its his to lose. Good morning, mrjavid. But its over for sajid javid, who knew getting through today would be tough. Here he is, posing with supporters shortly before he was eliminated from the race. The following candidates are now eligible to continue on the next ballot, which will take place this afternoon at 3 30pm in Committee Room 1a. Michael gove, jeremy hunt and Boris Johnson. Theres been intense lobbying for votes this afternoon, mps trying to win over mrjavids supporters and anyone else open to persuasion. Ive always felt that the next Prime Minister should be somebody who supported leave in the referendum campaign, and michael has got a very good track record in government. I think its incredibly important that we now focus on which two candidates are going to make the best final, and im supporting jeremy hunt because i think hes the guy to do that, and he should be in the final. I think we need to change the approach in europe, and i think the person to do that, the person who brings a different type of approach, is borisjohnson. These campaigns never go completely according to plan. There have been accusations in here of dark arts, tactical voting to try and force some candidates out. But, as of tonight, it is out of the hands of tory mps and down to conservative members. The question will they follow the script and pick mrjohnson, or could there be a plot twist . Already, the questions are lining up for whoever takes over. The chancellor saying they will need a brexit plan b, or could be forced to ask the public again. There will be many more questions asked in the coming weeks on brexit, on how to heal a bitterly divided tory party, and what else the new pm wants to do with the keys to this famous address. Injust over a month, there will be a new resident here. Nick eardley, bbc news, westminster. Lets go now to the houses of parliament, where our chief Political Correspondent, vicki young, joins us. Michael gove gaining a bit of momentum. Some seeing an intriguing possibility of a battle between him and Boris Johnson, possibility of a battle between him and borisjohnson, these old rivals, and borisjohnson, these old rivals, a new psychodrama perhaps in the tory party . That is not much in it. Borisjohnson way out in front as he has been from the beginning, now has the support of more than half the number of conservative mps, so the battlers who will join number of conservative mps, so the battlers who willjoin him on that ballot paper when it goes to a vote of the conservative Party Grassroots . Lets speak sir alan duncan who is backing jeremy hunt. Why do you think it should bejeremy hunt . Some people are saying it would be better to have two passionate brexiteers. It might not be the best formula for a successful contest. But i think germany is very capable, very logical, Good International relationships. Jeremy. I have worked throughout theirtenure in jeremy. I have worked throughout their tenure in office with those two foreign secretaries. And i am very clear in my mind that the better of the two is jeremy very clear in my mind that the better of the two isjeremy hunt, so i very much hope he gets through to be the second so that we can have over the next three or four weeks a good contest between borisjohnson andjeremy good contest between borisjohnson and jeremy hunt. Boris johnson has managed to get support from both wings of the party, and there are lots of people on the remain side of the argument who say he is a unifying figure for the party. You do not see him is that . There are all sorts of reasons in any leadership contest for people of seemingly different points of view voting for a candidate whose view they do not share. In the case of boris, he is an enormous personality. It is said that he could perhaps be the best person to beat jeremy corbyn. And could perhaps be the best person to beatjeremy corbyn. And i think people feel that he has promised them a ministerial job people feel that he has promised them a ministerialjob or something and that influences people, so there are a mixture of things. But what we are a mixture of things. But what we are looking at when we have the third person eliminated will be to candidates, each with roughly half the support of the party, because i do not think many hunt or gove vote rs do not think many hunt or gove voters if their opinion were measured against johnson would be likely to switch to johnson. What would be so wrong about the Boris Johnson michael gove . There is nothing wrong with it if that is the decision of the party, then that is the process. I have not said there would be anything wrong with it. Some people are worried because of the history you talked aboutjust 110w of the history you talked aboutjust now that it be quite aggressive, going back over old ground, their falling out last time around. Going back over old ground, their falling out last time aroundm going back over old ground, their falling out last time around. It is difficult to forecast that. Anyway, lam not difficult to forecast that. Anyway, i am not for either, i am forjeremy hunt, so the easy answer to that problem is to both have a jeremy hunt in the final and then to pick as the next Prime Minister. People are saying he has been too straight about all of this, he does not bring the charisma or enthusiasm for brexit, the excitement that someone like borisjohnson would bring to it. We have reached a funny old world and funny Old Conservative Party if we fail to value straightforwardness, intellectual honesty, really rigorous understanding of policies, and the experience he has got. If we want gimmickry and theatrical stance, then there are alternatives. But i would like to think we are a party and a country where we value the qualities that really matter, which are those of competence, service, intellectual grasp, good hard work and straight forward british decency. What about bringing the Party Together . Whoever wins this will have quite a challenge, getting back Party Discipline which is broken down of the last couple of yea rs, broken down of the last couple of years, getting unity back to the party, getting everyone back on message, how can they achieve that with the issue of brexit still hanging over this place . With the issue of brexit still hanging over this place . |i with the issue of brexit still hanging over this place . I agree that this is a problem which is why i have been strong in my words against those who brought down theresa may and took a long time in doing it by voting against the party whip on so many occasions. I mean, if borisjohnson or whip on so many occasions. I mean, if Boris Johnson or michael gove we re if Boris Johnson or michael gove were to take over, the gang around him are those who have wrecked the ability to be out of the eu even now, which they could have secured by supporting the deal, and they will step into a party with the same problems, the same arithmetic, but possibly deep resentment. What we saw in this last ballot were two people, members of parliament, spoiling their ballot paper. I cant think of that ever having happened before in a leadership election, and this is my seventh. That i think is an illustration of how the new Prime Minister, whoever he is, orwalk into a very difficult circumstance. Set of circumstances. We will find out whether he is a happy man in about an hours time. The 28 eu heads of state will be keeping an eye on this. Brexit has only been allotted a five minute discussion tomorrow. The dutch Prime Minister mark rutte has been speaking to the bbcs europe editor and said that leaving the eu will mean that he the uk becomes a diminished player on the world stage. When the new Prime Minister comes in and would ask for an extension, we have to learn what his plan will be in terms of new elections, a new eu referendum, making changes to the red lines the uk is currently holding. If nothing is happening, if it will mean after the 31st of october, again, can we make changes . No, we cant, because you have to change the red lines, then there is no point in having an extension. So you would be prepared to have a no deal brexit on the 31st of october . No i hate it i hate brexit from every angle, i hate a no deal brexit from every angle. I have to work on the assumption that brexit will take place and we have to avoid a hard brexit. So we have to work towards a negotiated brexit and i hope it is possible by the 31st of october. And, again, with brexit, be it hard or not, the impact on the United Kingdom economy, the society, everything, is huge. Its so much bigger than so many people anticipate. And that is my worry about the United Kingdom. Therefore, i am so sad that you are doing this, because the impact is huge, and many people are underestimating it. You will have a diminished role on the world stage, your economy will suffer, and it will have a huge impact on society. The populist eurosceptic threat for those who believe in the eu hasnt gone away, though, has it . Not completely, no. Its something you deal with here that you have had to face again in your recent general election. How does the eu navigate its way through . Surely, we are in a period of new politics . The paradox is this, and i had this discussion many times with david cameron. The direction the United Kingdom wanted the eu to take, we took. So, from, lets say, 2012, 2013 onwards, this whole idea of an ever closer union, the unavoidability of history, of this unavoidable march to a sort of european superstate, is all gone. Nobody in a senior position in the European Union is any longer pleading for that. Damian grammaticas is in brussels now. For once, brexit is right down the agenda . It is, you are right. The eu are more consumed at this summit while it waits for the uk to sort out its own politics and for a new leader to emerge you will come here and restart those brexit negotiations. The eu was more consumed with what is happening within the other countries. They are 110w within the other countries. They are now talking about Climate Change and whether they can get all eu countries to sign up to an ambitious. A target of reducing eu missions to net zero by 2050, so they are trying to corral all the countries, that has been happening 110w. Countries, that has been happening now. Also what we are waiting for is the crunch discussion today, the difficult one, trying to carve up those top jobs running the difficult one, trying to carve up those topjobs running the eus institutions for the next cycle, and that will be a really tough negotiation. Journalists are hoping for snippets of information coming out of the talks, and that is what we are waiting to see this evening. And everybody in brussels where you must be watching this leadership election very keenly because it will be fascinating to see who they will be fascinating to see who they will be dealing with. Is there an assumption that it will be Boris Johnson . I think that has to be the most likely outcome. That is what eve ryo ne most likely outcome. That is what everyone is thinking. But no one wa nts to everyone is thinking. But no one wants to say and commit to anything, they all say, we have to sit back and watch. Interestingly, as leaders we re and watch. Interestingly, as leaders were arriving today, they were being asked, will you work with Boris Johnson . They were all saying, they will have to work with whoever the new uk Prime Minister is. You heard mark rutte there talking to katia adler, saying the chances for renegotiation are slim unless the uk changes its red lines, so that is also the message, we expect eu leaders likely to reiterate it, they will not at this stage enter into major negotiations with the major rethink on the uk side. Meanwhile, the chancellor will warn £26 billion the treasury has built up for extra spending or tax cuts will be soaked up if there is a no deal brexit. In a speech in the city of london this evening, hes expected to say the future Prime Minister will face a stark choice to secure an agreement with the eu and protect britains prosperity or risk damaging the economy. Our Business Editor simon jack is in the city in london. What are we expecting him to say . This is probably going to be one of his last major speeches as chancellor, and he will take the opportunity to say, whoever comes in and is the new chancellor will have and is the new chancellor will have a bit of wiggle room, a bit of money to play with, 15 £26 billion, taxes 01 to play with, 15 £26 billion, taxes or spending or easing up over those swingeing cuts. That he will say, be careful, because if we get no deal brexit, all of that extra money, that wiggle room, will evaporate because it will hurt the economy, it will hurt tax receipts and the public finances. So that will be one strand of what he has to say. He will also have a political warning for the next Prime Minister. He will say, listen, a lot of things have not changed. Whoever the new person is, some things are immutable, for example, parliamentary arithmetic, will you get a deal through parliament where theresa may failed . There is that irish border question. He will say, listen, if you cannot get your plan a through parliament, the question you will have to ask is, what is your plan be . But that is, what is your plan be . But that is what we have been told he will say. I expect on his way out he might dropa say. I expect on his way out he might drop a couple of grenades and be more punchy than his nickname spreadsheet pill would suggest you talk about his advice to the next Prime Minister would be, there is word in torquay has been falling out with the current Prime Minister, his next door neighbour, about her plans for a spending spree to fund her legacy, and he is not too happy about some of those billions being used up. I think that if Philip Hammond had his way he would have liked his legacy to have been that he got the deficit removed and he had a fighting chance of doing that over the last year until of course the big spending pledge for the nhs which we know came from number 10 and not from number 11. Which we know came from number 10 and not from number11. It which we know came from number 10 and not from number 11. It does not surprise me that he is upset and frustrated that the one legacy he would have liked to have left as balanced books and that has not been possible. It will be difficult to know what he will point to as a legacy but many people say, we dont wa nt legacy but many people say, we dont want something too flashy, we have got to used to George Osborne or gordon brown. If that is the goal, he has achieved a it. John worboys, the so called black cab rapist who was almost freed from jail last year, has pleaded guilty to four more offences in which he drugged women in order to sexually assault them. Worboys, who now calls himselfjohn radford, was originallyjailed for assaults on 12 women, though its thought he may have attacked more than 100. The parole board recommended him for Early Release from jail last year, but that was overturned after an appeal by some of his victims. Danny shaw has more from the old bailey. Hes the serial sex offender who came close to being released from prison. John worboys was jailed in 2009 for attacks on 12 women. He picked the victims up in his black taxi and then offered them drinks laced with sedatives so he could sexually assault or rape them. Worboys denied the offences for almost a decade until he had the prospect of release. He was a sexual predator. He made cou ntless he was a sexual predator. He made countless victims traumatised. And i would like to pay tribute to those victims today having the courage and bravery to give their accounts. 18 months ago, the parole board said it was saferjohn worboys to be freed. He had convinced them he had taken responsibility for his crimes. In the row that followed, the chairman resigned in the high court overturned the release decision. The court said the parole panel should have taken court said the parole panel should have ta ken account court said the parole panel should have taken account of other allegations against him. Police believe he drugged and abused over 100 women, among them the four victims whose cases were heard at the old bailey. Mark rutte appeared in court via video link from prison when each of the four charges was put to him, guilty. John when each of the four charges was put to him, guilty. John worboys. The his sentencing he has been ordered to appear in person in court. 0ne ordered to appear in person in court. One of the options available to thejudges a court. One of the options available to the judges a life sentence. 0ne victim said she was in shock that he pleaded guilty after everything he had put them through. Lawyer said his admissions entirely undermine the account he had given to the pa role the account he had given to the parole board and called for a review into all the allegations against him. A former conservative mp has broken down in court as he recalled the malicious false allegations that he was a child murderer and paedophile. He has been giving evidence at the trial of carl beach, accused of lying to police about an alleged vip paedophile ring. 0ur correspondent has been following the trial. Standing a few metres away was the first time he directly responded to those claims he made against him. One of them was that the former mp strangled and stabbed the former mp strangled and stabbed the boy to death, and Harvey Proctor said this, the allegation is. , emanated from polluted imagination. When asked about whether or not he was part of a group of individuals who abuse children, he raised his voice and said, there was no westminster vip paedophile ring. Earlier, the former mp broke down in tea rs earlier, the former mp broke down in tears when he recounted the time the police raided his home back in 2015 as part of operation midland. He said he left the television on that night and woke up to seeing my face looking back at me, he said, and a story that my house had been searched in connection with historic child murders. He said he later lost hisjob. He also child murders. He said he later lost his job. He also told the court about what he described as the snail pace of metropolitan Police Investigation which took three and a half months to find out exactly what the allegations were against him. He held a press conference the day after the Second Police interview because he could not wait. I want to declare my innocence from the rooftops, he said. Carl beach denies perverting the course ofjustice and fraud, and the trial continues. Some news in from the United States. Donald trump has been talking about the incident in which us military drones were shot down by i ran. Iran claimed it was over its airspace. The United States has said it was over the gulf, and donald trump now says that the iranians have made a big mistake, that the us drone was in International Airspace, the us has that document, mr trump says. Donald trump was asked by reporters if the United States would strike iran in retaliation after iran shut down the american drone, and he said, you will soon find out. Those are the words from donald trump. You will soon find out if america would retaliate to that shooting down of the us drone. And the iranians have said they would take this to an incident to the United Nations to show that the United States is in their words lying. We will bring you more on that as it comes into us. That war of words between the United States and iran hotting up, as you can see. We are also hearing from the pentagon, the Us Air Forces Central Command statement, saying a bit more detail. The us navy was flying over the gulf of oman on Surveillance Mission in International Airspace in the vicinity of those recent attacks tankers when it was shut down by an iranian surface to air missile, fired from a location in the facility of iran. This was, say the american military, and unprovoked attack on us surveillance asset that had not violated reigning airspace at time during its mission. The us military think this attack is an attempt to disrupt our ability to monitor the area following recent threats to International Shipping and the flow of commerce. They are calling it a dangerous and escalate free attack that is irresponsible. That is the latest from the United States about that shooting down of the us drone. We will bring you much more on that as it comes into us. Campaigners have won a legal challenge over the British Governments decision to allow arms sales to saudi arabia. Since the bombing of yemen began four years ago, the uk has licensed almost £5 billion worth of exports to saudi arabia, including fighter jets and precision guided bombs. Campaigners argued this might violate International Humanitarian law. Naomi grimley was at the court of appeal, where the ruling took place, and is with me now. How significant is this ruling . It is very significant. There has been growing public concern about saudi air strikes been growing public concern about saudi airstrikes in been growing public concern about saudi air strikes in yemen, there have been cases of school buses, hospitals, factories, wedding and funeral receptions or been caught up and severe casualties. Britain is not support to export weapons to countries where there is a clear risk of International Humanitarian law being violated. The judges at the court of appeal today said britain should have made more of a study of past incidents in the yemen conflict. They should have looked to see whether there was a historical pattern there, and with that mean there would be further breaches of International Humanitarian law in the future . Because they say they did not do that, they deemed the export policy is illegal as it stands. What has been the reaction to the British Government . Liam fox has been on his feet in the house of commons, making it clear the government does intend to appeal. Interestingly though he will not be issuing any more licenses in future, and existing licences will have to be reviewed, so no immediate suspension of weapons shipments, but this has clearly got quite a large impact on government policy now and they will not issue new licences until they have gone further down the path of healing this judgment today. The leader of the Roman Catholic church in england and wales has been accused of defending the reputation of the Church Rather than focusing on the impact of child sexual abuse on victims. Cardinal Vincent Nichols was the archbishop of birmingham from 2000 to 2009. The independent inquiry into child sexual abuse said there had been over 130 allegations of child sexual abuse made against 78 individuals connected to the archdiocese since the mid 1930s. The duke and duchess of sussex are to formally split from theirjoint charity with the duke and duchess of cambridge and set up their own foundation. Harry and meghan are to break away from the Royal Foundation. William and kate will remain with the original charity, which was created in 2009 as a vehicle for the princes to carry out charitable work. The duchesses of cambridge and sussex both joined the foundation as patrons when they married. 0ur royal correspondence says that although it is a puzzling move it is not surprising. It comes against a background of rumours and reports of if not a rift then a greater distance between william and harry, and perhaps there is a leather Harry Married with his own set of principles and priorities. But it is puzzling because one of the first things you see when you look at the Royal Foundation website is this mission statement, when people come together, they can achieve great things. Now they are splitting apart, and at the outset we got the impression that Meghan Markle was joining this happily and wanted to throw her weight together with that of her husband behind the work of the Royal Foundation on of her husband behind the work of the royalfoundation on mental health, conservation, veterans, communities and all that, but we are told it is because of the diverging roles and responsibilities and the fa ct roles and responsibilities and the fact that the households have been separated that they have had a review, and it is now necessary and helpful to both of those households that they go their separate ways. We are told that this is not at the insistence of harry and megan. We have still got a number of showers around. A showery day for scotla nd showers around. A showery day for scotland and Northern Ireland in particular. But we have a few heavy ones across southern and eastern areas of england. They were clear for a time with showers confined to the north and west of scotland. 0therwise, clearing skies, like we ntz, 0therwise, clearing skies, like wentz, temperature 6 10dc, but breezy in scotland. I will show you something i have not shown you before. This is an area of high pressure. The first one we have seen thisjune, pressure. The first one we have seen this june, and that pressure. The first one we have seen thisjune, and that will mean that for many of us we have got a couple of dry days in the way. I say for most because again across northern scotland, breezy on friday with further passing showers. For most of Northern Ireland, england and wales a dry day with spells of sunshine. A bit offair a dry day with spells of sunshine. A bit of fair weather cloud bubbling up bit of fair weather cloud bubbling up in there. Temperatures, 16 21dc for most of us, and in thejune sunshine pleasantly warm. The fine weather will continue for most of us into the start of the weekend as well. You are watching bbc news, our latest headlines. Voting hasjust closed in the fifth round by mps in parliament for a new leader, two from borisjohnson, parliament for a new leader, two from Boris Johnson, michael gove parliament for a new leader, two from borisjohnson, michael gove and jeremy hunt will go through to a runoff jeremy hunt will go through to a ru noff voted jeremy hunt will go through to a runoff voted on Party Members. President trump has said that iran made a very big mistake by shooting down an american surveillance drone. The black cap rapist who was almost free from jail pled guilty to a tax on for my women. Campaigners have one on for my women. Campaigners have one one a legal challenge by the government decision to allow arms sales to saudi arabia. Those are our latest headlines, lets get this point for you now. I am back to 1996, remember frankie vettori . Famous went through the card winning all seven races on the day, we really got the book he anything today, he won the first four races on royal aspects, including the big one this week, the gold cup, repeating last years victory on board that theyve wrecked. That was a seventh gold cup for frankie at the age of 48. Can he go through the ca rd the age of 48. Can he go through the card just six races today . No, he could not, he came second in the fifth race but scale an amazing day for frankie. No clean sweep today though but he has won the gold cup again. Andy murray is geared to make his competitive return to tennis very soon, he last paid at the Australian Open back injanuary before having a second hip operation. Major doubts whether he would never play again at the top level, here he is warming up earlier today i had of his appearance alongside Feliciano Lopez in the doubles cleans, hes not going to make a single riparian or at wimbledon next month. But that does when he and his target for 20 20, we will see how he gets on the doubles today. The current british number one has been knocked out of queens in the first round by the top steep stepping on us from greece, trading bya stepping on us from greece, trading by a set overnight. Bad weather intervened yesterday and he was unable to turn the match around 23 p m. Six match points before finally losing that second set, 7 5. Defending champion marin cilic, he is also accepted losing states that stated diego schwartzman. 0nly is also accepted losing states that stated diego schwartzman. Only the third victory on grass in the argentinian players career. Finished 6 4, 6 4. Some terrible news for a juan martin del potro, quite up on the list at wimbledon last year, he has re fractured his right kneecap, he will have an operation in the next couple of days and he will be out for a few months again. He damaged and cleaned yesterday, even though he won his match, he had to withdraw when it swelled up overnight. Hed only been able to pay five events since suffering that initial fracture last 0ctober suffering that initial fracture last october i am told. He did it bear. Bangladesh need a very unlikely 382 to beat australia at the cricket world cup at trent bridge having chosen to bact, aaron finch the skipper a half century but it was all about david warner, biggest score at the world cup so far, his second century, 166 a few months ago, bangladesh a long way off with 1844 of 32 ago, bangladesh a long way off with 184 4 of 32 over us. A win for australia and they will when i am pretty sure it will send them back to the top of world cup standings. England be getting ready for their gamei england be getting ready for their game i trying that tomorrow, last time out against afghanistan remember they broke the record for most sixes in a meeting, 25. Theres been plenty of chat and addressing them amongst the team about who is them amongst the team about who is the biggest hitter. Not really but we talk about it, obviously we talk about who is hitting the bs fixes and stuff but yeah, i think my niece but to be the biggest. No, but, we do definitely have banter about it i beat myself up a little bit. For our players have been included in the planning a training squad for the by planning a training squad for the rug by world planning a training squad for the Rugby World Cup injapan later this year. Thats the experience quartet of danny, chris rob shah, Nathan Hughes and captain denning hartley all missed out, former england star rory and harlequins back or alex don brandt are two of those to come in. That is all your support for now, i will be back around half past six, tory leadership boats permitting on that. Much more on the bbc sport website, the final grip matches of the womens world cup are under way, these are group e matches, the netherlands and canada there, vying for top spots in group e it is go left, they ticked off half an hour ago. Sports day all things well, half past six, see you then. We will see you later on. Lets take you back to the conservative Party Leadership contest. Boris johnson back to the conservative Party Leadership contest. Borisjohnson as we have been saying widely expected to make the final shortly stuff too, thats after securing the backing of more than half of all conservative mps and vying for a second spot, michael gove and jeremy hunt to spend the afternoon lobbying for support at that they were separated by just two votes when said support at that they were separated byjust two votes when said that david was illuminated. 0ne byjust two votes when said that david was illuminated. One man who has seen the terry leadership contest or two, maybe not as a little bit about arm twisting and cajoling, it is the former conservative home secretary and party chairman, lloyd baker who joins us now from westminster, thank you very much indeed for being with us. The ending theres quite a lot of arm twisting going on right now please yellow i hope the contest will be between hunt and boris, i think it was between boris and golf. It will become very personal because they hate each other. Both stabbed boris in the back last time around and ina boris in the back last time around and in a contest between them will bea and in a contest between them will be a category expand on personalities there as he really wa nt to personalities there as he really want to debate the issues and i think i debate between hunt and boris will be an issue that is the question that hunt asked boris the other day in the debate, what happened if they go to a0 , what happens there . Thats the sort of issue that needs to be resolved so i paint the personality will be drained very largely and i think in any debate i think i must say my view, boris is going to lean the next Prime Minister because it is evident party in the country have been overwhelmed with brexit and they look up on him as their champion. I dont want boris diminished bya champion. I dont want boris diminished by a very personal date debate between him and golf in the next four weeks. That may be where its heading, he is now in the second spot, he has got a little bit of momentum now. That is wait and see, i think conservative mps happen to be realised the danger that might occur, if they do that. As i say, i think it will be much better if boris comes through if it if he will come through against towns, hunt me win but you never know, its unlikely i think. And anyway, we must not diminish the price and that will become the Prime Minister in four weeks time. All he has got a six weeks of negotiations when he realises that, how close we are to the end. 0nly realises that, how close we are to the end. Only six weeks because in August Europe is dead and in october theres a fortnight of the Party Conferences and self boris has got to put together a package in six weeks and i think his first goal will be as Prime Minister because he holds the veto and the deal cannot be done if he approves and it will be done if he approves and it will be done if he approves and it will be done and they trying to say he will support him so ip boris will have to concentrate very hard on their Prime Minister to come for another deal on the border and i think thats a real possibility. Who is your preferred candidate . Because you sported leaves, you also support the theresa mays deal, you are etched mps to back that deal. What would you like to win . |j etched mps to back that deal. What would you like to win . I thought he did very well in his first conference, it was almost the only limiting the campaign, but he trusted in the time around, and i now support boris because i think boris has the capacity to get through a deal. Youve got to handle the tory party in this particular problem. And the tory party will listen to boris my sympathetically than teresa. Its quite possible that in fact they will have to be an extension beyond the 31st of october and that, boris may actually have to say that the member he said it was feasible, remember in that what he did, feasible and i think that shows he is pragmatic and may have to be an extension because the other deal apart from the deal and i dont think no deal will happen if parliament cant find a way of stopping no deal, i think they would be able to confidence in the nasty date of october and you must not forget that the conservative government only has majority of four so you really thought to have two or three conservatives who want a general election, some do want a general election, some do want a general election, some do want a general election and i think i meant to wa nt general election and i think i meant to want a general election and that means we have a general election in december which will be absolutely disastrous. Can i ask you to cast your mind back, you have seen terry election contest or to, how does this compare i mean, use of the thatcher election, when she really came from outside to win it, but this ina came from outside to win it, but this in a sense if it is Boris Johnson who wins, would have been about a more predictable because hes been the front runner all the way through. I think the voting process this time is better because when margaret last night she had a majority of 50 guys in this case its whittling down until you get to two and i think thats better and it its being handled by the committee remarkably efficiently efficiently actually. And the other times its been much longer than that. Im very uncertain but its now much my site and i think to live emerge tonight very clearly. All right, they will have to do. Thank you very much indeed. We will see if my predictions are right or not. I will say that. Thank you so much for spending some time with us this evening, thank you very much. Let us go back to the houses of parliament and wejoin our go back to the houses of parliament and we join our chief Political Correspondent vicki young who is there with more. Vicki . A nerve racking few minutes left now thinking of course byjeremy hunt and michael gove as de bie for second place to challenge Boris Johnson, lets speak to one of those supporting michael gove, he is with me now. Why should it be michael gove . I think michael has demonstrated in many areas what he is ready to deliver on the results people voted for in 2016, he is ready to deliver a change by the United Kingdom and he is ready with innovative policy platforms and radical change for the United Kingdom and hes ready to unite the country and he demonstrated that time and again and he is ready to lead his country and thats why im supporting him. You may have heard what dean huntley saying privately, they are saying it would be a psychodrama to have borisjohnson up against michael gove it would be divisive because they found out last time around so spectacularly and it would not be good for unity in the party. Ive think whoever ends up in the last two theyre going to be tough questions on both sides, thats absolutely right, thats what we expect. We learned after the last election in 2016, tough questions before and somebody is selected and quite important because we need to know that they are capable of finding themselves in an election and winning an election fighting thats important. But michael and borisjohnson thats important. But michael and Boris Johnson have thats important. But michael and borisjohnson have demonstrated time and again that they can Work Together, that they can get the personal difficulties, whatever burning of them and i dont think there are any to be honest, and these are professionals who have beenin these are professionals who have been in politics for a very, very long time. So this is not some sort of soap opera, this is trying to select the best candidate that might be United Kingdom of this important moment of change. It is going to be a huge challenge for whoever gets to step particularly delivering brexit. You think there is a path to hear . A genuine path as we had a fit between now and the end of the year . Yes, i do but it requires everybody to be honest about what that challenge are before us, it means people have to before us, it means people have to be frank with folk about what is realistic and not just be frank with folk about what is realistic and notjust in the union but around the world, what is actually possible in the experiment but then to approach it in an open and honest fashion, bringing people m, and honest fashion, bringing people in, talking to parties from across parliament and actually around the country as well. And somebody would demonstrate a way to do this from around the country isnt very spirit, we have seen him working very ha rd spirit, we have seen him working very hard on that and we have also seenjeremy very hard on that and we have also seen jeremy hunt who very hard on that and we have also seenjeremy hunt who is back very hard on that and we have also seen jeremy hunt who is back thats worked very well across parliament and he works extremely well with labour on the various policy proposals and michael has worked brilliantly in the environment of making sure that both but is there in trust make businesses and environmental interests have been able to Work Together. So all of these candidates have been the stated time and again that they have the ability to bring people together but i happen to think michael is better at it, that i see what others think, maybe i am wrong and i am sure we will get the right person. What about unity of the party . Its been so divided over the last two or three years. 0pen warfare some would say. Bringing that back together is going to be incredibly difficult isnt it . No matter who you having your cabinet. It will be difficult, we are going through a pretty blazing time because its a Hung Parliament and because these are really important questions. Its hardly surprising people are sent to to represent the interests of communities that they are sent by, ta ke communities that they are sent by, take this response ability seriously and arent bound by Party Pressure but actually fight for the issues and the content of people they represent and thats kind of what we are supposed to do isnt it . And where we can Work Together, where we can bring the party to get to come up can bring the party to get to come up such of course we said, the interest here is for the uk people and that is what we are all doing various different races. Are you worried about borisjohnson not being a unifying figure because a lot of your figures are consistent about that. Morris has an amazing ability to communicate, people have noticed it around the country had various different points. He is there a box office draw of conception associations and he still manages to get people turning out in d roves, manages to get people turning out in droves, their conservative functions, but i think we want somebody who really has demonstrated that they are able to lead from day one. Somebody who has proven that they cant really manage that apartment and therefore manage a machine that the government and get the changes through that we need to see and that person is michael gove. I think its ready to be ready to leave and ready to deliver and ready to unite. Thank you very much. Not long to wait until you find out what he yet but the result that you want. That result we think might be earlier maybe five past six. 0k vicki, i know you are standing by and he will bring that to us as an eye that happens. Lets take a closer look at how the three remaining candidates have performed in the leadership contest so far. Borisjohnson former foreign sec mayor of london, topped all ballots so far, 3rd round 143 votes, 11th round 157 votes, jeremy hunt foreign secretary, finished second in 3 of the 4 ballots, 3rd round 54 votes, 4th round 59 votes, michael gove environment secretary jumped above hunt in 4th round, 3rd round 51 votes 4th round 61 votes. Put on another ten in the fourth round. Now, at the moment the last round. Now, at the moment the last round jumping into second place. But only just. Its very round jumping into second place. But onlyjust. Its very tight round jumping into second place. But only just. Its very tight for second place. That is discuss all of this. With me now is the former advisor to theresa may joey jones, and a former political advisor to david cameron, laura trott. Thank you so much for being with us. First of all, who will get second place . Thats the key question really. I suppose its the only interesting question in a sense because Boris Johnson interesting question in a sense because borisjohnson is so far ahead. Do you see this as momentum that michael gove has now got . |j that michael gove has now got . feel like hes got a 50 50 chance of getting this one right. You can quote me on this in ten minutes. I am going to sayjeremy hunt. Quote me on this in ten minutes. I am going to say jeremy hunt. 0k. Laura . Bill i think he said it as jeremy said there are more votes this to beating around. How might they go . . This to beating around. How might they go . . A this to beating around. How might they go . . A fee will go to paris because it will some hard brexiteers. There are some more cabinet establishment types that will divide pretty evenly between jeremy and michael and when theres two of them its very difficult to call but the fact that michael has just nudged ahead means i think hes got that momentum and he will make it but it was so tough. The other thing is Boris Johnson it but it was so tough. The other thing is borisjohnson has so many that he has the ability to choose if he wants. They could just hand over 30 votes. Has not been happening . Is it up 30 votes. Has not been happening . Is itupa 30 votes. Has not been happening . Is it up a part of landing boats and shenanigans and the dark arts deacon thats been happening . A bit, without doubt. Sartini, mps do it evenif without doubt. Sartini, mps do it even if you try to discourage them. So there will be mps supporting borisjohnson who will be smart on it bluntly and too clever for their own good. If they are all like that. It may cancel itself out. That does make it even harder to predict, and getting my excuses in early. The numbers farbrace are important, the fa ct numbers farbrace are important, the fact that he has half the Department Party now is quite significant because it gives him quite a mandate so because it gives him quite a mandate so actually although it might be tempting to then votes around that number he has will put him in good stead and makes it even stronger. it is michael gove, theres a lot of talk and a lot of wary by some conservatives that its a rerun of the 2016 psychodrama as its referred to and that it could become quite ready. I disagree. Referred to and that it could become quite ready. Idisagree. Ithink they have got a long history, the Work Together at oxford, they Work Together for a long time. I think they move past that now. So, i think it would be more a contest of ibs. They are not enemies you dont think . Now i dont think so. It would be a contest of ideas that need to go through. So, yes i think it would be interesting and i dont think that psychodrama will be brought. Your analysis both of the individuals better than i do and am happy to refer to her on that, on the one thing i would say is that has to be an anxiety farbrace johnson is that michael gove does know a lot about Boris Johnson, borisjohnson way out know a lot about Boris Johnson, Boris Johnson way out front know a lot about Boris Johnson, borisjohnson way out front but he knows undermined his confidence last time around, he knows where he was strong, when he was not so strong, and that does i think that would worry any politician. Last time he implied that Boris Johnson worry any politician. Last time he implied that borisjohnson was incapable of being prime i think its a very tough judgement that well see if it goes through as to how to use that needle if you like. Or if you try to be very olympian. Ultimately i think whoever goes through, what they need to learn a bit from is rory stewart because they are so far behind, they will have to up and they will have to be a bit different and theyre going to have to campaign not really straight down the line in a very conventional, very small conservative way they will have to try to rattle borisjohnson in some sort of way. I dont know how they might choose to do that but that psychological, a bit like Alex Ferguson type thing, those are two who knew one another very well and knew how to get under one anothers skin. I suppose the issue is the 160,000 or so members of the tory party out there and the assumption is that enough borisjohnson, he is there darling. Yes, all the polling backs that up and get a strong support base amongst the membership. But even then it does change very quickly. As a significant chunk they are not sure about so although he the overwhelming favourite i dont think its a done deal. Quite interesting he got endorsed today by George Osborne Evening Standard actually, saying they were supporting him. Yes, there are some interesting bedfellows at the moment and people rushing to borisjohnson aid. I remember when theresa may felt as though she was going to rain and a lot of people were going around saying i am a key adviser or ianda around saying i am a key adviser or i and a key part of the team. Look, i dont know whether George Osborne really is central to the way in which borisjohnson was thinking but there are people who would be happy for us to imagine that at the moment. One interesting script was to spoiled ballot papers i will ask you later on if you think they spoiled their ballot papers. Anyway, after todays votes its going to be bound to the conservative membership, the latter Party Membership, the latter Party Membership as we have been saying to pick their necks to be there and next Prime Minister of this country so we can get a flavour of their thinking right now. And we talk to the selection of them and see whos conservative counsel for redic borough council, david pugh who is the chairman of the isle of wight conservative association. And also to nicola lowery, the chair of the telford conservative association. Do you first of all, what is your latest thinking, who would you like to see as the two who are presented to see as the two who are presented to you . I would like to see jeremy huntand to you . I would like to see jeremy hunt and Boris Johnson to you . I would like to see jeremy hunt and borisjohnson in the final contest. I think weve heard from people to date that thinksjeremy offer something credible and i think youd see a very civilized campaign and hopefully its very credible on policy and how the intent to deliver on the referendum on the vision for our country and party. My worry is that if michael gove does get involved in the final two, it could be quite a divisive campaign, he clearly has a long history with borisjohnson, i clearly has a long history with Boris Johnson, i dont clearly has a long history with borisjohnson, i dont think Party Members certainly want to see a rerun of the lead campaign so i hope for michael gove in the final two but its a very civilized campaign which focuses on contents rather than the controversial campaign. Clearly there has been a tactical voting going on in parliament today, some people want to see to brexiteers in there and some people support terrys will potentially be looking at backing jeremy to ensure that we did get that civilized campaign. Now is the time for unity in this party and i hope whoever enters the final two will do that moving forward. For the moment, thank you but stay with us. Let us get the views of david pugh, the out of White Conservative association, david, is that how you see it . If it was borisjohnson against michael gove, would you be worried that might bea gove, would you be worried that might be a psychodrama as its been called . I think thats rather dramatic language to use, our members are looking forward to the opportunity for the first time in 14 years to have a say in who will be the either of the party. Weve got 800 members here, a number of them are looking forward and whether its michael gove ident Boris Johnson are looking forward and whether its michael gove ident borisjohnson or jeremy hunt against him the fact is it will be a clear choice for them to make. And david, the assumption asi to make. And david, the assumption as i was discussing with my guest here is the conservative Party Membership broadly kind of a dores borisjohnson but membership broadly kind of a dores Boris Johnson but it was rubber stamped his victory, is that how you see it or not . Would it be a real contest . Yes, i would not taking for granted, conservative Party Members can be a fickle bunch, clearly there are people and i spoke into our members who strongly supports these people of different views and some of our members respected candidates who have gone out to be contest and theyll be looking at what to do. I think its all to pay for, we are interested to hear from the candidates notjust what they are looking to do for the country as a whole but here on the isle of wight in other parts as well. They have got to pitch a message to us and members will then decide. Thank you david, a lovely day on the isle of wight by the way, beautiful blue sky. That is go to our conservative counsellor for redic borough council, how do you seeit . Redic borough council, how do you see it . Who do you like in the last two and then who of those two would you vote for . Well, originally i was appointing dominic wrap sol you vote for . Well, originally i was appointing dominic wrap so i let macatee dominic raab in the final two that will not happen and then we will after he was eliminated from the contest i would hope to see such a job may the final two but that will not happen. Sol a job may the final two but that will not happen. So i dont know where my support is going to go, i guess as a brexiteer, who won my seat in a strong brexit area, it makes sense that i would want to see boris and michael gove final. Effectively, you and your fellow Tory Party Member is about 160,000 of you although i dont think anyone has the absolute final number but you are choosing brights next by minister, some people think that is not very healthy that such a small slice of the population are choosing the Prime Minister. Its a great step forward from how it used to be in base of all that used to be just the 1922 committee in the Parliamentary Party decided this but ido Parliamentary Party decided this but i do think its probably time for the process to be looked at because as he reported earlier today there are rumours that there is been loaning of votes and thats been coordinated or freelancing, whats its allowed to do to happen is that burris is the front runner and been able to sit there and essentially snapper off or pop off the opposing candidate so dominic raab bob stewart, excited to all those candidates would have given boris a really ha rd candidates would have given boris a really hard time in the contest and theyre all gone and effectively allowing him to choose his own opposition. I dont think that can be right i think the process should be right i think the process should be looked at again perhaps the np should do a short list from the initial stages with the threshold or that whatever that first threshold was that whatever that first threshold was and put the rest of their remaining to the membership and we have a bigger choice amongst the membership. I think something that need to be looked at because the contest does not feel right to me. Good to talk to you all, thank you very much. Many thanks to you for taking the time to talk to us. Let us show you this evening i think now we are in westminster a committee wilma four, 14 i should say i think thatis wilma four, 14 i should say i think that is which is where the 1922 committee will be giving us the results of the latest direct which will reveal the final two and who will reveal the final two and who will then their names be put forward to the wider tory Party Membership three of whom weve been talking to but there are 150,000 of them or so altogether and that will then take place over the next few weeks. Let us go back tojoeyjones and laura, former adviser to theresa may and from a political adviser to david cameron, i asking a question about if there is a democratic legitimacy here or a question about that . Some people have raised it about the hundred thousand rsl tory Party Members choosing the partys next by minister . I think the last point was a good one. Things have definitely moved on from where we were, this has only been the last 20 years that conservative Party Members had a say in who was their leader. I think with membership which unfortunately continues to dwindle somewhat, its probably worth looking again at how we view that and how thats open to new people and to a wider populace. Because it could be a problem but then we have the converse issue when you allow more people to come in its very open to manipulation which some would argue happen with kirk corbyn. If you give it to members of parliament they are at least democratically elected and they are representing conservative voters in their constituency you could argue. Yes. I think the way the issue is just the fact that the bulk of the population is looking and scratching their heads on this and to be presented with a Prime Minister that they had no influence over. Ultimately if they feel they are let down or if they feel the whole thing isa down or if they feel the whole thing is a stitch up, they will have the opportunity to reflect that next time around in the ballot