Now for the weather. It has been quite an unsubtle day today. Heavy rain and blustery winds, brighter weather with a few showers in the south. An area of low pressure spins up south. An area of low pressure spins up from scandinavia. The rain eases off. And the wins will calm down overnight with clearing skies. Temperatures foremost between eight and ten. Tomorrow, across northern scotland, a cloudy start but otherwise for most of the uk should bea otherwise for most of the uk should be a bright and sunny start. It is a day of sunshine and showers and the showers will form into bands where those bands will be heavy, thundery and slow moving. In between those showers, more in the way ofjune sunshine. Temperatures 16 to 20 celsius. Into next week, a potent weather front will be moving across england and wales bringing heavy rain. Heaviest across eastern areas, some could see a months worth of rain bring the risk of localised flooding monday and tuesday. Hello this is bbc news. The headlines michael gove one of the front runners for the conservative leadership says he deeply regrets his cocaine use more than 20 years ago, but it should not affect his bid to be Prime Minister. President trump lifts the threat of tariffs on imports from mexico after its government promises to curb illegal immigration. A 16 year old boy has been arrested over a homophobic attack against two women in london on a bus. The queen isjoined by members of the royal family for the annual trooping the colour parade, to mark her majestys official birthday. The actor 0livia colman is among the famous names recognised in the queens birthday honours list. Leyton orient manager Justin Edinburgh has died at the age of 49 five days after suffering a cardiac arrest. In the cricket world cup, jason roy hits 153 as england beat bangladesh in cardiff. Now on bbc news, talking books. Award winning novelist and poet Kapka Kassabova talks to stig abell about her childhood spent behind the iron curtain in bulgaria. Hello and welcome to talking books at hay festival in wales with me, stig abell. Every year the festival brings to a small tented village a group of politicians and artists, writers and thinkers, a heady mix of people designed to stimulate debate and ideas. Ill be talking to Kapka Kassabova whose book border is both a literal exploration of a base where east meets west and a poetic meditation on how we create divisions between people through a combination of race and religion, history and chance. Kapka kassabova, welcome to talking books. Applause. Kapka, the book has a combination of a sort ofjournalist and poet about it, in terms of the use of language and the inquiring mind. But before we talk about how you go about writing this, perhaps you might give us a brief reading. klyon was the pet name bulgarian border soldiers gave the electrified, alarmed wall of barbed wire that ran through the forest and sealed off the country from its neighbours. The official name was saorajenieto, the installation, and the installation was ostensibly there to stop enemies from infiltrating. But if you look at the top of the wire, parts of which still stand, you see that it points to the real enemy inwards. In that Twilight Zone the soldiers lived, counted the months and sometimes years until the promised leave, and sometimes died by their own hand or the hand of a comrades gone berserk. Their only company consisted of the pet dogs, trying to console some and hunt others. There were two types of Border Guards career soldiers and those 19 year olds on compulsory two year military service who had drawn the border lot. Border duty was the most dreaded service, because the colonels in charge of the Border Forces were notorious for being, in the words of a former soldier, demons in human disguise. Anotherformer guard said to me, when you have no contact with the outside world, they can make you believe anything. With its well oiled feudal barbarity, life behind the installation was a perfect microcosm of totalitarian society. And the strip of land that ran alongside the installation was known as the furrow of death. Even a birds footprints could be seen in its carefully tended soil. you say youve been haunted by borders all your life and its a subject that you have devoted a chunk of your life now to writing about. Why is that . Why has the subject of borders haunted you . Growing up behind the iron curtain was a formative experience for me and no doubt for my whole generation, of, um, in the ex soviet world. I guess today we think, at least in the west, where we are privileged enough to think of borders from their more benign side, as it were, were used to thinking of borders in terms of protecting us. Well come back to this, no doubt. But the experience of actually living behind a hard border was the quintessential experience for me of living in a totalitarian society. Its not one that protected you, but one that prevented you, as it were. It tells the tale of a land, your book, deeply damaged by the communist state where people were abused and murdered. I wonder whether was one of the reasons you wanted to write this book because people in the west are either not aware of it or have forgotten it or underplayed it, was there a sense of what went on in these lands is no longer known as much of that should . Yeah, partly. But i would say that i was less driven by a sense of mission than by a more instinctive sense of, well, an obsession, really, an urge to write about whats hidden, whats now out of view, whats. What i knew was going to be narrative gold dust, in a way. I sensed that these were places. The border zone was a place of unexcavated, extraordinary, but unexcavated stories of what felt to me great human relevance, notjust locally or regionally, or even historically only, but universally and in a timeless way. So i, with a writers instinct, i went there and i started gathering stories. So it was really obsession and fascination that drove me. And a little bit of anger, i guess. You mention some astonishing things in this book. You talk about the forced expulsion of 340,000 ethnic turks from bulgaria in 1989, an act of ethnic cleansing. Does it surprise you that thats not well known . And although its not a Mission Statement to educate people, that these are Untold Stories you want to tell and there are few stories here that are untold, effectively. It doesnt surprise me. Nothing surprises me. I guess having grown up both behind the iron curtain but also in a kind of peripheral part of europe which is seen, from perhaps well come back to this idea of what is the and what is the periphery but very much growing up with a sense of growing up in a kind of marginal, in the margins. And as a writer now im drawn to the margins, to the people of the margins, to that which is out of view. And, certainly, when you come across stories like the one you just mentioned, of the 350,000 bulgarian turks who were expelled into turkey, just a few months before the fall of the berlin wall, which went largely unnoticed, very little reported in the west. I really wanted to tell that story. Because im not a historian and im not really interested in official history, i wanted to tell that story through individuals and i went in search of such people in turkey and in bulgaria, in the border zone. And how much of the horrors of that time linger . Because youre coming to this in the time we live in now, communism has fallen, the border zone is a different kind of place, there is issues to do with borders, of immigration coming into europe, for example, but its a very different political set up now. Did you find that the horrors of that communist period are still resonating . The place is still haunted . Absolutely. It is still haunted. The forests are haunted. The forests, in parts of the no mans land between greece and bulgaria, in particular, there are patches of forest where all the trees are initialled. Through different historic eras. So you can see initials are scratched by people who were crossing the border in dire circumstances dating from the 1990s, but also going back to the greek civil war, world war ii, and then youve got the cold war in between. So its a very symbolic place, this no mans land, in particular, but to go back to the types of people. I guess one way to find out whether, you know, um, how history has moved on or hasnt on the ground is to start listening to peoples stories. And one type of person who inhabits the border zone is, of course, the border guard, just kind of archetypal. They are the gate keepers, the Border Guards, regardless of whether it was during the cold war, when it was a very deadlyjob. So that there are still killers, you know, old men now. Never be brought to justice. No. Because the system encouraged it. Because it was part of the system, it was actually enshrined in law that these Border Guards were trained and instructed and encouraged to shoot any trespassers they saw. Of course, most of the time they simply arrested people. But there were also cases of spontaneous executions along the border. So that was one type of person. And. Go on, sorry. And, i guess, the counterpart to the border gatekeeper is the fugitive, which is another another type of person i wanted to meet. So i travelled to berlin to meet a man who is now in his 60s and who was a young man when he attempted to cross the bulgarian Turkish Border in the 1970s and was arrested, but survived. And theres a big story there. And of course there are the refugees of today, those trying to cross the border in the other direction, counter to the direction of the fugitives of the cold war. Did you feel a sense of catharsis of people talking to you, is it nice for them to have an outsider coming in and show interest in their lives and given the chance to speak, give them a voice . People already have a voice. Its just that it often isnt heard in places, in marginalised places. But it certainly struck me that in wounded places like this, and such sort of topographies of trauma, where mass trauma has occurred over a long period of time, including now, because the trauma of the border continues in the shape of the refugees from the middle east trying to cross in similarly desperate circumstances to previous to fugitives of previous eras, in such wounded places, one looks for any opportunity for healing, really. And conversation can be healing. Silence can also be healing. Lets talk a bit, shortly, about how you transmit that listening into writing. But perhaps, before we do, lets hear another bit of the book. i spent some time in a village in a Mountain Range between bulgaria and greece, called the rhodope mountains. And this village is known for its centenarians, who are now apparently dying out, as in the next generation dont live so long, but theres a bit of a mystery surrounding that. And here is an encounter. you know the secret of longevity . A voice suddenly said. I hadnt seen him until now. Hed materialised like a djinn at the table and was already having a shot of rakia on the house. He was a whippet of a man with a hatchet face and straw hair. His eyes were so pale they looked bleached by too much time in the High Altitude sun. The secret is to have three hearts, he said. One for loving people, another for loving yourself, and the third one to love the mountains. Kostas here has three hearts, he pointed to the greek owner of the taverna. He reminded me of the scarecrow from the wizard of oz. His speech was fast and garbled, not helped by his mixing of bulgarian and greek words. Thats the secret, he said, not yoghurt. Hi, im ziko. Zikos the name. He got up and bowed unsteadily. If they ever open up the old road between greece and bulgaria so we can feel normal again, kostas said, as they have been promising for years, useless states, the both of them, they ll now sponsor a statue right by the border pyramid. The statue would be of ziko, kostas said. Life sized. Wow, ziko said, chuffed. Like most in the village, he looked ageless, but he had history. In his late 20s hed been stopped by a police car on a deserted road above the village and beaten to a pulp. The beating had changed him forever. The flesh fell away from him, his speech went funny. After a spell in hospital, there was a spell in jail, because ziko had been a notorious people smuggler. Drinks on the house today, kostas rose from his chair, because i can see this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship. And that is a good example of the people who populate this book. Talk about the way youve written it. Because although it has these continuing moments of interesting people, there is an interest in poetic vocabulary and the act of expression itself, and the books constructed around various poetic words. Theres the dyavolsko oko, the bulgarian word for evil eye. Theres the greek word for competition, antagonismos, which gives us the word agony. You have a poets ear, and an eye for language and its impact. Is that important . This isntjust a simple travel story for you. Youre excavating the idea of how language works as well. Yeah, im so glad that you bring this up, because it is really the key to understanding this region, notjust the border zone but the south east balkans, which is where this book is very much located, culturally, historically, and the great paradox of this border is that it sort of severs communities and cultures which were naturally enmeshed for many centuries. It is a hugely cosmopolitan, historically, a hugely cosmopolitan part of europe, you know . With the byzantine, 0ttoman, slavic legacy. So the three languages that are spoken in the three countries on this border all had to find their way into the book, because theyre part of the texture of local life. And i wanted to capture some of what the border tried to destroy, which is precisely this sort of rich human narrative and way of life. So i very much, i was very much aware that these words would be foreign, as it were, to an english language reader, or anyone who is not from this region. But it didnt matter, because it felt, um. It just felt necessary. So of course we know agony, and a lot of words we know come from greek anyway, and a lot of words still used in the balkans come from turkish, actually from old turkish, which is arabic. So i wove in a few of those words, which are also things in everyday life, such as roadside drinking fountain known as the cheshma. Everybody in the balkans knows what a cheshma is. Its a very civilised thing, you know, even on the most godforsaken road, in any part of the balkans, this is courtesy of the ottomans. Youll find a working roadside water fountain, usually with spring water, Crystal Clear spring water, and i think theres a beauty to that, and theres also a story around that. And you are telling the stories in a language that isnt your original one. It seems to be another extraordinary thing. This is a poetic book about poetry and three other languages, written in the fourth language. Does that give you a sense. I mean, is it helpful to you, in a way, that you are telling this through the english language, because you are this observer, you are both part of that world but also slightly distant from it, and your communication kind of settles along similar lines . Absolutely. I think if i were to write in my mother tongue, bulgarian, about this border, or about any subject that is very close to my heart, i wouldnt be able to do it, or not in the same way. Why not, dont you think . I think its a matter of not being overwhelmed by the emotional charge of what it is that youre tackling in the book. And i think the fact that i have been an english language writer all my adult life, really, has given me that, has added to the outsider insider perspective. Which makes these books possible, for me. How universal a book is this . Although its very much set in the land you are writing about, you quote a line from another author in the book, which is all peoples are, in a sense, immigrants. Are you telling a universal story about peoples sense of home or what happens when people are forced to move and people come into contact with other people, or when cultures mingle and are separated . Its the edge of europe, a specific area, but is this a universal thing . I feel this is the case, i hope thats how it comes across. These are universal stories. These are in some cases archetypal situations that people find themselves in. You know, can i cross this line . This whole idea of transgression, who is in, who is out. Its very much an archetypal human experience. Also, loss, in the case of todays refugees and yesterdays refugees, total loss. Literally carrying all your belongings in a plastic bag. I think its important, like some of the people of the border zone have done, for all of us to find that bit of poetry, that bit of life, with which we connect deeply, and which we truly love. Well, that is quite a good link into dancing, because you wrote a book about dancing, about tango, called twelve minutes of love. Tango is of course a dance that was forged in immigrant communities, a combination of cultures coming together. Why are you so interested in the tango . You wrote a book about it, it was clearly essential part of your life. What does it mean to you . Is it a moment of beauty in the world . Tango is the worlds most beautiful dance, of course. Argentinian tango, not ballroom tango. That was an obsession i had for a number of years. I became interested in why people became so caught up in the culture of tango, which is now a global phenomenon. And i decided to trace the story of the tango itself from its roots, and its roots are in immigration, in fact. Its the song and dance and the music of the exiled, is how it started. European immigrants to argentina and uruguay, what is known as the Rio De La Plata region. But it also has its roots in black music. So its a confluence of exile. And i was interested in why people who become part of the global tango community, as i was, for ten years, almost end up living the tango, finding a home in the tango. So it is a kind of secular religion, almost. You have said obsession again. I noticed it, you said you became obsessed. Where did these obsessions come from, kapka . Do you get them and then you have to follow them and write about them . Is that what motivates you to write . Well, i think i am a storyteller. I am always looking for a place where i can connect with a story that is bigger than me, larger than my own experience. The tango, the story of the tango, is very much one of collective. Of collective agony and ecstasy, if you like. But its also the music, the making of tango music is a wonderful story, and one of the poets of tango, alfredo minetti, an argentinian poet, said tango is a sad thought that can be danced. That is kind of, you can see that in this book, its full of sad thoughts that are danced. Its moments of beauty about a land that is haunted. Yeah, and again, you know, what. You know, in the midst of loss, and tango is very much, you know, the subject matter of its songs is often loss, lost love, lost homeland, the first recorded tango song was mi noche triste, my sad night, which says it all. 1916, i think it was recorded. The question is, amid all the loss, what can be salvaged . What do we still have, what can we share . And i think theres always a story there. Pleasejoin me in thanking the wonderful kapka kassa bova. Applause. Thank you. At least there was no need to water the garden is today. Mother nature doing an amplejob of the garden is today. Mother nature doing an ample job of that and for many of us, we saw skies like these. Grey, drab, outbreaks of rain, blustery winds. The rain is still with us particularly across scotland and northern england. Further south we have seen a few showers across southern england, southern wales and sunshine in between. We have had blustery winds as well in the south, some fairly rough seas being driven onto the coastline of east sussex in hastings. 0vernight tonight an area over low hastings. 0vernight tonight an area over low pressure hastings. 0vernight tonight an area over low pressure spins up toward scandinavia. They will be a future with across Western Areas but the rain will ease, the winds will become much lighter and clear spells overnight. Temperatures for many between eight and 10 degrees. Tomorrow, across northern scotland will start off rather cloudy here but otherwise a decent start to the day. Plenty of morning sunshine, however sunday is going to be a day of sunshine and showers and those shower clouds will start to develop from midday and on into the afternoon. They will form in lines where the winds bash together. These are convergent lines where the showers become heavy and slow moving but they run across south west england, another mid wales and another four Northern Areas of scotland. These are the areas where you are most likely to see heavy, thundery, slow moving showers. Elsewhere showers will be isolated and so should feel warmer, temperatures 16 to 20. Big contrasts into next week. Warm air being pulled up from north africa, colliding with cooler coming from polar regions and that is causing a potent weather front to develop. Their met office have issued this yellow weather warning with some places potentially seeing about a months worth of rain through monday and tuesday. There is a scope for localised flooding and the rain wont affect Eastern England only, it will be extensive across england and wales on tuesday. Scotland and Northern Ireland dry. We swap the weather around during the second half of the week, becoming dry across england and wales as the rain pushes on toward scotland and Northern Ireland. That is your latest weather. This is bbc world news today. Im Lewis Vaughan jones. Our top stories President Trump says he believes mexico will try very hard to act on immigration, Asylum Seekers and border security. One of the main contenders to be the next british Prime Minister says using cocaine more than 20 years ago shouldnt affect his leadership chances. Sudans political crisis deepens as opposition groups call for a campaign of civil disobedience. And no big ships venice comes out to protest against giant cruise liners docking in the bay. Hello and welcome to world news today