Im stephen sackur. Tu rkeys im stephen sackur. Turkeys president erdogan was once the darling of western governments, now hes viewed with deep suspicion and the thing is, he doesnt seem to care. So, american and european misgivings about turkeys latest military operation inside syria are being ignored, so too requests that he ease up on domestic repression. My my guess is turkey deputy Prime Minister mehmet simsek. Will turkey pay a heavy price for this pivot away from the west . Theme music plays. Mehmet simsek, welcome to hardtalk thank you. I think we have to begin with Turkish Military operation over its border in Northern Syria top it isa its border in Northern Syria top it is a dramatic intervention in the affairs of syria. You said when he began weeks ago that it would be very brief it no longer looks as if it is going to be brief. First of all, we had no choice but to do these operations. It is all about securing our border, the safety and security of our people. Over the course of 2017, we had experienced about 700 skirmishes or attacks originating from and around that area. Clearly turkey s intervention is not an intervention aimed at either syrian territory integrity or against any ethnic group. We have no quarrel with either kurds. We want a unified, stable and peaceful syria. You talked about it being brief, president erdogan indicated it would be an in and out operation but in recent days, we had another deputy Prime Minister, a colleague of yours, saying that if the ypg what you call the p y d, that you call a terror group but a group that americans have worked with the sometime your colleague said if the ypg does not believe syrias territory turkey will move their two and two was the eastern areas of the Euphrates River and it will last as long as it is necessary, it is a long running fight. Very different words from yours. We are paying maximum attention to make sure the operation is surgical and we do not have civilian collateral damage. That is why it is moving very slowly. As far as that area is concerned, prior to recent conflict, was 95 populated by arabs. Most of that arab population is now refugee in turkey. This subsidiary of pkk. So you say, the americans clearly. They did not accept the characterisation of it as a terror organisation. They have trained them and offered them support and we know the americans, who have a base close by look at incorporating elements of the ypg into a so called board up force. The us has initially denied they were working with a subsidiary 01 they were working with a subsidiary ora direct sun they were working with a subsidiary or a direct sun should of pkk. They camouflage that as a syrians Democratic Force but it is dominated by pkk leadership and militants. You can watch the x us defence minister admitting the p y de ypg is largely related to pkk. Lets get back, it is establish a subject to ethnic cleansing. The Us Administration had promised they would pull back to the east of euphrates so the refugees would come back but they never delivered. From what you are saying, the bottomline is that this is going to be a long running operation. If you want to change the demographic, this could go on for months. It could be occupied by Turkish Forces for a long time and you could come up against american personnel you insist on going into the area. We have no interest in controlling a single inch of syrian territory. We have no interest. I wa nt to territory. We have no interest. I want to make that clear. We are not there on a permanent basis. We are there on a permanent basis. We are there because our National Security concerns have forced us to go there. Secondly we do want to see stabilisation in the region so that 3. 5 billion syrians, which makes turkey the largest refugee holding country, to go back and resettle in their home and territory. With respect, this operation is much more about your fight with the kurds. We have no quarrel is with kurds. Turkey was the first country to help iraqi kurds combat daesh. We have no quarrel with kurds, in fact, can i just finished, 370,000 kurds who moved to turkey three or four years ago they are still in turkey because they are afraid. Donald trump and president erdogan had a phone call after the white house released a statement saying President Trump had urged president erdogan to de escalate and avoid civilian casualties. It is now clear the us is deeply unhappy with what you are doing in Northern Syria. We are very disappointed with the way the us is acting in syria. Imagine a nato ally thatis acting in syria. Imagine a nato ally that is supposed to be combating global terror turkey has been that for the us, has been an dependable partner imagine your partner, your ally moving 10,000 kilometres away, coming toa ally moving 10,000 kilometres away, coming to a country where you have 9 11 kilometres of border, turkey and syria, and, underthe 9 11 kilometres of border, turkey and syria, and, under the pretext of combating another terror group, arm and train and other terror group to fight another terror group that clearly. Fight another terror group that clearly. Are you accusing the americans of essentially arming and supporting a terrorist army . World. Lets be clear. Well, the us knows that it is a direct offshoot of, a subsidiary, of pkk. Lets be blunt about this. It is in an astounding thing to say, it leads to this scenario. In the next few weeks your forces would be going to war with the us forces. The rat 2000 around the area and there is now a real risk of military clashes, confrontation between turkey and the turks. We do not want that. We want without allies and friends to combat extremism and terror wherever it is, to stabilise syria and help rebuild syria and make it more peaceful, sta ble syria and make it more peaceful, stable and prosperous because you only realise how significant it is. This is bigger than just syria now. Now the us i will quote you a former ambassador the us is questioning the fundamentals of the relationship between turkey and the us. It has been very tense for a very long time. Those tensions are rooted in the nature of the regime president erdogan is trained to implement and is fuelled by anti americanism. The ambassador clearly misses the point. The us, pkk for turkey is an existential threat because pkk is a direct threat to turkey s territorial and prosperous future. We are talking about what is happening in a sovereign nation, syria. You are trying to reshape Northern Syria. Not only do the syrians say it is unacceptable. No, no, we have 900 kilometres of water with syria. What happened in syria is a concern for us because we are having to live with the consequences. 3. 5 million syrian refugees, largely on the back of ethnic cleansing by pkk, turkey cannot sit on the fence. This operation is clearly raising tensions. Looking at what is happening in Northern Syria, how long will it last . It will last as long will it last . It will last as long as we push all those terror groups out of the area. We are also trying to stabilise idlib area, one of the deescalation zone is. We want a unified, stable, syria because anything else is a Security Threat for us. Very interesting phrase, working closely with russia. It seems to me that tibet that the government has made president erdogan has had three visits to moscow and talked about the deepening relationship with Vladimir Putin and russia. I have indicated to you what washington thinks of president erdogans policies. Polls show 65 of the turkish public and almost three quarters of the voters for your party regard the us as hostile nation. You no longer look to nato, the us and europe but to moscow for your strongest concern. As far as nato is concerned, turkey isa as far as nato is concerned, turkey is a full member, a reliable and dependable partner and that is not going to change. Our relationship with russia is not necessarily an alternative. We have strong trade, investment ties, russia is the biggest supplier of tourism if you ta ke biggest supplier of tourism if you take last year s numbers. Lets realistically look at the syrian theatre. It requires working with all these players on the ground. Are you talking about turkeys overarching strategic positions. The germans are deeply critical of turkish policy not just germans are deeply critical of turkish policy notjust external but internal as well, as was the foreign minister saying that he would no longer advise german businesses to invest in turkey were even com pletely invest in turkey were even completely Innocent Companies are judged as being close to terrace. The netherlands, one of the biggest overseas at investors in turkey, has with its ambassador, your diplomatic relationship with them is in cold storage. Something important is happening. Your story on germany isa happening. Your story on germany is a big old and the statement was a miscommunication but lets go back and. It was back on the fact that german citizens were being arrested and as faras german citizens were being arrested and as far as the germans were concerned they were behaving. We are back on more normal terms. Turkey is not breaking up with the west. Turkey is responding to a number of shocks and traumas and Security Threat in the region. I hear words, but let me give you some more words than president erdogan which continues to this very day. About the row of the netherlands. He said, quote, nazis and is still widespread in the west. Lets, not in context. Well, that is in context. What im trying to tell you is that yes, we have had a number of conflicts. There are issues but fundamentally, turkey is not moving away, is not drifting away. However, you cant call your best friends nazis. That is a description of behaviour, not necessarily friends. Nazi, is not a reference to france. I am not sure the dutch are reading that very su btle the dutch are reading that very subtle distinction you are making there. There is a distinction, the reference is to behaviour. Because the behaviour towards the ministry was not a friendly one, so that is what we are referring to. It anyway, lets get back to the core issue will stop the United States has been ourfriend and will stop the United States has been our friend and ally, will stop the United States has been ourfriend and ally, we will stop the United States has been our friend and ally, we want the United States to understand our concerns United States to understand our concerns and to address them. In a way that is consistent with Reliable Partnership and in the lines that we are in. Another thing that the operation in Northern Syria has revealed is the continued commitment of the outer one government, your government, to internal oppression. Alliance. Government, to internal oppression. Alliance. In the days since the military offensive began, people had been detained according to Reuters News Agency for protest and social media posts criticising that offensive. We even had the extraordinary sight of 11 members of the Turkish Medical Association being detained because they call for peace, how long is this repression going to continue . Well, lets put it this way. First of all, no country it this way. First of all, no cou ntry allows it this way. First of all, no country allows glorification of violence or terror, it now. Doctors calling for peace, is that glorification of terror . The doctors have already been released, but lets get back. Should they have been taken in the first place . How can your government continue to behave like this . My government cannot allow, as i said, we are fighting a terror group and therefore, i think, fighting a terror group and therefore, ithink, you know, glorification of the pkk or ypg, or anything that suggests that. |j glorification of the pkk or ypg, or anything that suggests that. I do not know if you have seen the medical associations pregnant, i have. They did not mention the ypg, all they said is that they would call for peace immediately on humanitarian grounds. What on earth has that got to do with supporting terror . When turkey suffered 700 tax, a lot of people have lost their lives. We did not get any call or condemnation by the likes of those people, so. I put it to you there isa people, so. I put it to you there is a paranoia at work in your government today, we have seen it ever since that attempted coup of the summer of 2016. We have seen 140,000 Civil Servants arrested, 35,000 people or more, including writers, journalists and academics, arrested. It is a national paranoia that mr erdogan is. No, no, it is not a national paranoia. I think it may be an alien concept to you to understand that the coltish network, religious, secretive network could build 50 years. Just to be clear for owl audience, you are talking about. Yes, it this is a criminal network for 50 years, they have recruited people from an early age and they infiltrated in all government bodies, including the army, the police, thejudiciary, et cetera. Now, in 2016, there was a bloody coup attempt. Had that attempt in by a few rogue officers, turkey would not have gone down this path, but let me finish. This is much more complicated but i, a understand why you cant understand this. Why . Because clearly, the Something Like that to happen, is very unusual. Orjust maybe, the observers of turkey, you know the country very well, many of whom live in it, you have independence, human rights observers and others, say that it rights observers and others, say thatitis rights observers and others, say that it is quite clear that the one government is using this notion of an all out sort of confrontation with an embedded movement to just ta ke with an embedded movement to just take on all of it dissenters, its critics, round them up and silence them. No, there is still a lot of criticism, we are open to criticism. Constructive criticism is more than welcome. However, however, you have to understand that what turkey has gone too is not ordinary. It is complicated, and it is a product of 50 yea rs of complicated, and it is a product of 50 years of planning and infiltration. Turkey, by actually combating this gulinist network, is saving its democracy, is saving its rule of law. Yeah, mr deputy Prime Minister, you are a man that is trained as an economist. Use the service minister of finance and you ca re service minister of finance and you care deeply about the turkish economy, the fact is that given you have got this resumed conflict with the kurds in the south east of your country and across the nation but primarily in the south east of your country, you have got this unstable situation on your border with syria and military forces inside syria and you have got this massive repression inside your country. International investors look at turkey today and they think, not worth the risk. Foreign direct investment down, turkish currency weak, you have got big problems. A lot of investors disagree with you. Lets look at the numbers. Last year to november, we attracted 11. 8 billion of Foreign Direct Investment and close to 12 billion of net portfolio investment. Down net 11 last year. If you look at the average, that compares by the way with only 750 million in the previous 20 years. My government must have done the right to attract 190 billion of Foreign Direct Investments over the past 15 years. Well, look at the attitude of the european union. Unless you change tack, europe is not going to regard, never mind regarding turkey asa regard, never mind regarding turkey as a potential member of the european union, it is not even going to regard turkey is a viable business partner. Last year, it was a difficult year. Turkey went to a rough patch from 2016 onwards, it is true. And that led to significant tension with some of our friends, allies and partners, it is also true, however, since then, relationship across the board has been on the mend. That is first. Secondly, in particular with germany, we now have good dialogue. We are now back to some sort of normalcy. You are trying to tell me that things are to use your words, normalising, but here are the words ofa normalising, but here are the words of a turk who currently is in washington. He says this. At ones policies are demonising the opposition have created a deeply polarised society. Arnhem land. On the current trajectory, his current policies will deepen the crisis. Im not going to comment on this specific crisis, but let me put it way on combating terror, turkey is united. Erdogan. Can ijust finished my sentence . On combating tu rkeys finished my sentence . On combating turkeys criminal network, whether you are leftist or write or whatever party, almost unanimous support. You can see it, look at various polls. There are issues were obviously there is polarisation but on major co re there is polarisation but on major core issues, that you have highlighted here, ithink core issues, that you have highlighted here, i think there is a very strong turkish backing. However, having said that, i am not arguing that things are as good as we would like to be. But they are not as bad is being trade by some of these soundbites. There is a lot of cherry picking, i am sorry to say that. Portrayed. Let me tell you this, turkey is an important country, turkey is right now providing education to 600,000 school age syrians, that is the biggest investment in peace and stability in the future. Turkey is key. We have gone to a difficult period and we want a little bit of empathy, a little bit benefit of the doubt solidarity. Deputy Prime Minister mehmet simsek, i thank you for being on hardtalk. Thank you very much indeed. Thank you very much. Thank you. Hello there. Yesterday morning, some of the coldest air was across the southern counties of england. With a sharp frost, temperatures in shoreham, towards the south coast of england, got down to 6 degreees. Compare that with northern ireland, where we were three degrees above freezing. But fortunes have rather switched around this morning. The coldest air across the north and west. Its mild further south, where weve got this band of cloud and rain moving its way slowly eastwards. Now, the cold air follows that band of rain. Well see wintry showers to start the day across many Western Areas, and notjust that, therell also be a risk of some icy stretches on the roads to watch out for as well. Now looking at fridays weather charts, weve got this band of rain then. Its working slowly across east anglia and south east england. And then what follows is cold north westerly winds, dragging in the cold air but also bringing an increasing risk of wintry showers. So its going to be feeling colder as the day goes by. Now, across england and wales, that band of rain clears away across east anglia and south east england. Then were quite likely to see some wintry showers, could even bring a dusting of snow even down to low levels for a time across eastern england. The best of the sunshine for wales and Western Areas of england, but feeling quite chilly. Further north, for scotland and for northern ireland, north westerly winds, from the word go, will continue to bring in plenty of snow showers inland. Around the coast, more of a mixture of rain and probably a bit of sleet too. Temperature wise, were looking at highs between four and seven degrees celsius. Now friday evening and overnight, were going to continue to see showers for a time but then a ridge of High Pressure moves in. That will clear the skies, so temperatures dip away. Therell be be a frost and a risk of icy patches, and then during the second half of the night, a band of rain moves in off the atlantic, bumps into that cold air, and we will see snow potentially down to low levels for a time across eastern scotland, and some snowy weather too in the hills of northern england. Now, heading on into the start of the weekend. Eventually, the winds start to come around from a more south westerly direction. The snow will disappear higher and higher up into the hills until it turns into rain. A soggy afternoon with that wind and rain, heavy at times, turning milder. Temperatures up to 11 degrees in cardiff, still the cold air hanging on across the far north of scotland. Then, potential for a weather front to develop across england during saturday night. That could bring a squeeze in the isobars, the potential for some strong winds. That will clear quite quickly on sunday. We will be back to a mixture of wintry showers. Some sunny spells in between. Feeling cool, particularly in the north Western Areas. Thats your weather. Hello. This is the briefing. Im david eades. Our top story the Winter Olympics in south korea are about to begin, and they seem to have triggered a drop in regional tension. But no games, though, for 47 russian athletes and coaches accused of doping. Their appeals are rejected just hours before the opening ceremony. Another Us Government shutdown has just begun, with congress arguing over hundreds of billions of dollars in spending. And coming up in the business briefing, Global Markets fall again, with more than 1000 points wiped off the dourfor another time with more than 1000 points wiped off the dour for another time this week. Plus clean up or pay up the uks among nine eu countries on a final