The removal of Robert Mugabe as president of zimbabwe in november led to several mugabe loyalists going underground. The most prominent of these is probably jonathan the most prominent of these is probablyjonathan moyo. Until recently, a cabinet minister, key ally and close adviser to Robert Mugabe and his wife, grace. He has been described as one of the most hated men in zimbabwe, and is wanted in the country on corruption charges. Jonathan moyo is now in hiding in self imposed exile, and says his family is being harassed, and that his life is under threat. We cannot disclose his location, at his request. This is his first interview since his ousting of president mugabe. What has he got to say for himself . Jonathan moyo, welcome to hardtalk. Why have you gone into hiding, and not wish to disclose your whereabouts . It is because of the extraordinary situation that exists in zimbabwe following the unconstitutional overthrow of the government in a military coup that took place on 15 november. And on that day the military specifically targeted my house and myself with a clear intention to cause harm, and thatis clear intention to cause harm, and that is why i am not in the country, although i left the country legally. Iam not although i left the country legally. I am not at liberty to disclose my whereabouts, because they have shown a very clear and determined intention to find me and harm me wherever i am. Intention to find me and harm me whereverl am. You have talked intention to find me and harm me wherever i am. You have talked about worries about your life, and threats and harassment, and so on. What is the evidence for that . It is common cause in zimbabwe. I have even put that evidence on my twitter feed. On the morning of 15 november, around 2 30am zimbabwean time, between 15 to 25 heavily armed sas soldiers came to my residence, and they destroyed the gate, destroyed the entrance, the door to my house, and shot their way into every room looking for me. But fortunately they did not find me, and none of the members of my family were there, because i had been forewarned the previous night that the military we re previous night that the military were going to raid my house, and i was advised by a very close friend that i should not spend the night at my house, and that i should take every member of my family with me out of the house, and the evidence, physical evidence, of what then happened to my house, has been there for anybody to see. All right, so where did you go then . Where did you go . Reports are that you went with yourfamily to go . Reports are that you went with your family to Robert Mugabes mansion, and that they were allowed to stay, but you refuse . Is that what happened . To stay, but you refuse . Is that what happened . That is false. The military people who wanted to harm me on the night of the coup dont actually know what happened, and they have been peddling falsehoods about these occurrences. What i would say, without putting in jeopardy many of gods people who we re very jeopardy many of gods people who were very kind to give me assistance, is that it is true that i took my family with me on the night of i took my family with me on the night 01 14 november to my colleagues residents, and my colleagues residents, and my colleague being the then minister of local government. And the amazing fa ct local government. And the amazing fact is that his house was also attacked about the same time when my house was being attacked. When i was there with my family, it was him and his family, and altogether there we re his family, and altogether there were 11 of us at his residence when the residence was attacked. All right, so thats where you went. We know that he and you are one of the most know that he and you are one of the m ost wa nted know that he and you are one of the most wanted men from zimbabwe, and in fact the former finance minister is in prison. How did you manage to escape zimbabwe . You say you left legally, but on the other hand you have just described how the army and the authorities were coming after you. Yes, when they came to attack saviour kasukuweres house at about 2 30am on 15 november, they subjected it to some 15 minutes of gunfire, and amazingly, after those 15 minutes, and they surrounded the house, the sound of gunfire just went silent. And we waited therefore i think Something Like ten minutes, and there was no movement or sign of any presence of these special forces that had surrounded the house, and shot at it from every angle. And we then managed to get out of the house, and we were amazed that they we re house, and we were amazed that they were no longer there. They probably believed that they. So how did you leave the country . You have explained how the army attacked both your house and saviour kasukuweres house, but how did you actually leave zimbabwe . On the other question i asked you is, why do you 110w question i asked you is, why do you now fear for your life since you have left the country . Are you receiving more Death Threats where you are . And how did you leave the country . I left zimbabwean with the help of people who to me are angels, because they saved lives. And i am not at liberty to say who helped me, how they helped me, and how i left zimbabwe, except to say i left zimbabwe, except to say i left zimbabwe when president mugabe was the president of the country, and i left with the assistance of these people, legally. Legally. I left the country legally. I managed to escape the net of the military people, and to be where i am, legally. So. But do you not think that, as i said, you know, you have got the new zimbabwean government saying they have got into bowl, they want interpol to help them locate you, and a couple of others, the most wanted, some say most hated man in zimbabwe, because you were of course very, very close to Robert Mugabe. It is going to be a matter of time, isnt it, before you are returned to the country . Well, fortunately there is something called international law. I want to make clear that, when i left zimbabwe, there was no warrant of arrest against me. And there was only a death warrant, and we have incontrovertible evidence, in black and white, documentation that shows what the intention of the joint in harare was, with respect to my security and that of my collea g u es my security and that of my colleagues junta. They have, since the coup, started framing all sorts of political charges in the guise of terminal charges. They say they were targeting the so called criminal people, criminals surrounding president mugabe. But we 110w surrounding president mugabe. But we now know that they were talking about political criminals. They have not come up with any crimes that rise to the level of charges that would warrant the interest or attention of interpol. These are people in pursuit of a political agenda. They believe that we committed political crimes by supporting president mugabe and not supporting president mugabe and not supporting them. So this is a very strange and unique definition of criminals, only applicable to zimbabwe. But i repeat, there is international law. Yes, everything will finally. International law. Yes, everything will finally. There is also zimbabwean law, and the government has said it wants the president , he wa nts to has said it wants the president , he wants to track 2 billion of state funds that have disappeared through corruption and the reports suggest that you are wanted for allegedly stealing assets, under the systemic corruption that we know existed under the mugabe years. There is no such evidence they put anywhere. They are going after people who they allege were holding beans, rice. You are one of those. You are one of the people they say was involved in systemic corruption. Let me just tell you what a political analyst and former party member has said. He talks about the new governments delicate handling of the old man, Robert Mugabe, but they will make an example of grace mugabe, and some others around her, even though the corruption goes much bigger. You we re corruption goes much bigger. You were one of grace mugabes key allies, part of the so called g a0 faction which was trying to manoeuvre her as successor to Robert Mugabe, so you are really top of the list when it comes to the people who are wanted for this alleged corruption. First of all, it is not corruption. First of all, it is not corrupt to support particular politician to become any officeholder, whether it is Vice President , resident. It cant be a crime ina president , resident. It cant be a crime in a constitutional democracy. It is false to allege that there was an attempt to elevate doctor grace mugabe, the former first lady. What is really going on here is that there is a group of people that sees itself as the stockholders of zimbabwe. And this group is led by mnangagwa, who is now president , but the control of this group is the general who was the Vice President now. But he is Vice President because of a military coup. He has not been voted into that offers. If you grant power by force, you then must find excuses to justify that ground. And this is what they are doing. You are questioning mnangagwa, the new president. World reaction has by and large welcomed him. Rex tillerson, the us secretary of state, zimbabwe has an opportunity to put itself on a new path. Borisjohnson, opportunity to put itself on a new path. Boris johnson, mnangagwa. And angela merkel, germany will support you as a partner in your endeavours to start a new chapter in the history of zimbabwe. That is the reality you are facing now. You can criticise what has happened as much as you like, but that is what the world as saying. It has accepted this. Yes, it is not the world which chooses the leaders of zimbabwe. Zimbabwe has a constitution, and mnangagwa and his partner know only too well that they have come into power via the bullet, and not the ballot. The constitution of zimbabwe requires people to come into power via the ballot. There will be elections in 2018, this year. The people of zimbabwe will decide. If the world wants to be at odds with the world wants to be at odds with the popular will of the people of zimbabwe, that is up to them. We can only be concerned about the republic of zimbabwe, the views of the people of zimbabwe, the views of the people of zimbabwe, the International Conspiracy that supports a dictatorship, that has come to power via the bullet, is another story. It will not be experienced by the zimbabweans for the first time. Well, he has promised free and Fair Elections in august this year. You cant hold free and Fair Elections. There has never been a single case ofa there has never been a single case of a government that has come to power via the bullet. You have talked of conspiracy, but what is it you want . Because in one of your tweet since mugabe lost power, is said to the new leadership in zimbabwe, if you and your lot think that this will last, then you aint seen that this will last, then you aint seen nothing yet, come rain or shine. Are you plotting . No. Zimbabwe, in spite of this coup, zeinab, it has come off age. We have a new constitution and this is constitution the people have made for themselves, and it has been broken, and it has been broken via a coup, and if people think zimbabwe will embrace the coup and change leaders when they know the factors, because right now the cabinet of the republic zimbabwe is by the most feared people in this country. They are feared because they are associated with every atrocity that has happened. The people of zimbabwe cannot be expected to embrace the most feared individuals. What do you want, a return to the status quo, a return of Robert Mugabe and grace mugabe as his possible successor . Is that what you would like to see . Well, every thinking, right thinking zimbabwean would like to see the return of constitutionalism and legitimacy in zimbabwe. It is not about any individual. It is about the rule of law. The constitution of the rule of law. The constitution of the country has been subverted. And there has to be a return to can stew cheryl is. And we do not expect the same people who overthrew the constitution to restore it. And there is a lot that gets set about mugabe. I want to put on record that ifor one am mugabe. I want to put on record that i for one am very, very happy, proud of the fact that i served with him and under him. And you backed grace mugabe, who is by and large not admired at all in the country. Are you happy, do you want to see her still having chances of getting into power . Zeinab, the fact that people, some people, who may in fact be a minority, have issues with doctor grace mugabe does not mean it is a crime to support her. No one can sustain that view. It is only the people who decide who will lead them through an election. You do not prevent an election through a military coup, simply arguing that you do not like president mugabe. It is unprofessionalfor you do not like president mugabe. It is unprofessional for an army to do that. The Zimbabwean Army has joined the ranks of banana republics where military individuals intervene because they do not like individual, they lay that individual. They have reduced our country to a country of good guys versus bad guys. Have you spoken to grace mugabe . As far as i am concerned. Spoken to grace mugabe . As far as i am concerned. Grace spoken to grace mugabe . As far as i am concerned. Grace mugabe was not only the first lady, she was also the secretary for Womens Affairs in the secretary for Womens Affairs in the ruling party, and that position, zeinab, isa the ruling party, and that position, zeinab, is a very serious position. And as a leader, a top leader in the party, she was entitled, one, to discharge the programme and, two, have her views as to who should occu py have her views as to who should occupy office. She was entitled to that. And in doing so. Have you spoken to her . She has not been seen. Spoken to her . She has not been seen. Have you spoken to her, orfor that matter Robert Mugabe . No, i havent, because of circumstances that have arisen. I look forward to doing so, specially speaking with president mugabe, who is zimbabwes pastor, and unfortunately we are not cu ba ns pastor, and unfortunately we are not cubans because our politics have been influenced by our colonial relationship with the white settler economy and with britain. You said you are proud of having served under Robert Mugabe. You have talked about his legacy. His legacy, for example, three quarters of zimbabwes population live on less than five dollars a day. One quarter under the age of five experience stunted growth. The trade Union Congress in zimbabwe says that there is 90 unemployment. I could go on and on. You are Higher Education minister. The fees for a term at a university in zimbabwe is 1000 us per term. So it has become really something that only the privileged few can enjoy. That is just an example of the legacy that you talk about. No, that is not a legacy that is what you are calling the legacy. You are identifying certain challenges that the republic zimbabwe has and you say that this is the legacy. No that is a very strange definition of legacy. We accept, as we did even as we we re legacy. We accept, as we did even as we were in government, that there we re we were in government, that there were challenges facing the country. We know what the reasons for some of those policy challenges are. But u nfortu nately those policy challenges are. But unfortunately the president put faith in the people who have now turned against him and who used his assignment of responsibility to in fa ct plot assignment of responsibility to in fact plot his downfall. What you are pa rt fact plot his downfall. What you are part of a government, as i said, which, this current government says now, youre part of this systemic corruption, we have heard press reports of your lavish home in harare. My home is very modest in the neighbourhood. There is nothing extraordinary about it. It is described as lavish. I build that house when i was not in government. I worked very hard in order to get that house built. I am very proud. You people can create as many stories as they want. But the truth of the matter is you will not find a single case where i took a cent to build anything for myself almost family. Are you talking to an intermediary about your own future and whether you can make some kind of deal on unity from prosecution . You cannot discuss those issues with an illegal regime. And an illegal regime is one that comes into power against the constitution in violation of the constitution. That regime may be in effective control of the territory, but it is an illegal regime, it is an illegitimate regime. They kept saying they want to have elections in six months. We know that when Emmerson Mnangagwa went to morgan s house, the Opposition Leader in zimbabwe, they pretended that they we re zimbabwe, they pretended that they were concerned about his health and so forth but we know that they wa nted so forth but we know that they wanted to negotiate with him to postpone elections for at least three years. They are afraid of elections. They do not want to have free and Fair Elections let alone credible elections. What will you do, do you want immunity from prosecution, do you want to go back to zimbabwe . We would. Every zimbabwean who cares about the country would like to see a return to the constitutionalism. That is the fundamental. We must have the rule of law. The Army Deployed itself in zimbabwe when the constitution says only that president can deploy it. When you have people who have deployed themselves, taken have people who have deployed themselves, ta ken over all the institutions of the state and government, you dont discuss immunity with them. But if you were to be offered it, would you go back, if you were to be fitted, woody go back . When the offers you immunity, you would be a full to enter into what is called a frosty and bagan . There are press reports that you asked the kenyan authorities for a bargain and this was refused. Where would you go . Faustian bargain. These are falls reports. I want to tell you what you know. You cant have people become stateless just because some individuals have grabbed power in their home country. That is not international law. We do not live in the jungle any more. So these questions will resolve themselves in the fullness of time. So how isjonathan moyo going to live, forever a fugitive on the run . Where are you going to live, will you seek asylum . Where are you going to live, will you seek asylum . I want to remind you seek asylum . I want to remind you when i left zimbabwe there was no warrant of arrest against me. I did not run away from any warrant of arrest. I ran away, if you want to use those terms, from a death warrant, and a lawful attack on my house by military people and an arm lawful attack on my house by military people. There is no one in the world who would sit and say come and attack me, come and kill me. You do not implement justice and attack me, come and kill me. You do not implementjustice by sending armed soldiers to attack a civilian resident. So, iam not bothered about that question, because at some point the rule of law and constitutionalism will speak. Zimbabweans are already demanding they want to know what happened to president mugabe. He was humiliated by the very same people who were saying they want to restore his legacy, who were claiming to be targeting others around him when, in fa ct, targeting others around him when, in fact, they were targeting mugabe and they did so in a very humiliating and totally they did so in a very humiliating a nd totally u na cce pta ble they did so in a very humiliating and totally unacceptable way. Zimbabweans, forget about me, zimbabweans, forget about me, zimbabweans in the country are asking fundamental questions about what happened, why it happened and they want to see restoration of the rule of law, constitutionalism in zimbabwe, and they will get it. Jonathan moyo, thank you very much indeed for coming on hardtalk. Good morning. Fog is our talking point for the weather this morning, quite widespread fog, particularly across the western half of the british isles, and some dangerously dense patches to be found out there at the moment. The knock on effects to travel certainly if youre heading on the roads, but also i think for some of our airports as well. A chilly start to thursday across scotland, with a frost here, and dense fog through the southern uplands, and the central lowlands. Murky conditions across Northern Ireland for the rush hour, as well, for the north west of england, too. Further east, its murky conditions but for a slightly different reason, the remnants of a weather front here introducing a lot of moist air, so low cloud particularly hanging across the hills. A chilly start for wales and the south west of england here, with dense patches of fog that have fallen overnight, lingering across the west country, as well, making things pretty messy. Then, in the east, some drizzly rain out of the remnants of our weather front. All in all, a pretty gloomy, murky start to thursday. In the west, im hopeful things will gradually improve through the morning. The fog lifting up initially into cloud. Then hopefully, perhaps over the moors and the south west of wales, and, particularly for scotland and the north west of england, it will break and allow through some sunshine. It looks like glasgow could be one of those areas where fog lingers, temperatures will really struggle. Highs of somewhere between five and eight degrees, and, with the cloud in the east, even at eight degrees, nothing too special here. Thursday night into friday, a repeat performance. Clear skies in the west, the fog will thicken, a patch of frost will develop, more breeze across ireland. In the east, though, the weather front close for a murky start. Friday looking gloomy initially. Hopefully some hazy sunshine in the west as the day goes on and, perhaps, just perhaps, a little bit more brightness across Eastern England come the afternoon. Temperatures again fairly unremarkable, somewhere around six or seven degrees. So, quite static for the uk for today and friday. Further afield, into europe, our patchy fog could also be a problem across france and germany. If youre travelling down towards the med, this area of low pressure still causing problems with thunderstorms for the next 2a hours. For us, though, not a lot moving until this weather front tries to push in later on on friday. It gradually works its way eastwards through the weekend. The worst of the rain will be out of the way on friday night and then, basically, for the weekend, its just going to introduce quite a lot of cloud and a strengthening breeze. So, this weekend, no really dramatic changes, largely dry, cloudy and breezy. This is the briefing, im sally bundock. Our top story rescue workers search for survivors. At least 17 people were killed in mudslides and flooding in southern california. After a third day of clashes, tunisias Prime Minister accuses anti austerity protestors of trying to weaken the government. 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