Transcripts For BBCNEWS Victoria Derbyshire 20180110

Changed the world historically over many years have fought racism. Plus there is more one way than to be the best. Apply now. No more of your country needs you and be the best, the army is changing the way it advertising for new recruits. It is moving to a more emotional style. Your reaction to this very welcome particularly if you serve in the armed forces. Or if you are an army family. Hello and welcome to the programme, were live until 11am. Throughout the programme well bring you the latest breaking news and developing stories and as always keen to hear from you. A little later well discuss the letter written by legendary french actor, Catherine Deneuve, who says men have the right to hit on women without being forced out of theirjobs. In the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal shes one of 100 prominent french women to complain about a new puritanism. Your thoughts welcome, use the victoria live and if you text, you will be charged at the Standard Network rate. Our top story today. At least 13 people have died in mudslides and floods in Southern California. At least 163 people have been taken to hospital and hundreds more are trapped. Our north america correspondent, james cook reports from los angeles. The rains came suddenly just before dawn. Torrential and terrifying. They coursed over the slick, scorched earth, gathering speed until mud was roaring down to the sea like an express train. The deluge smashed into the very homes which had just survived californias biggest recorded wildfire. The result utter devastation. We had a very difficult time assessing the area and responding to many of those areas to assist those people. The only words i can really think of to describe what it looked like, was it looked like a world war i battlefield. The communities hardest hit were montecito and carpentaria on the Pacific Coast north of los angeles. These are some of the most exclusive neighbourhoods in the United States. Home to stars like Oprah Winfrey and the actor rob lowe. But no amount of money could stop this torrent. Well, the mud roared down here with terrifying speed, sweeping everything in its path. The firefighters wont let us go up there any further, they say the situation could change in the blink of an eye and as you can see, this is how dangerous it is. Rescue workers are still scouring scores of damaged and demolished homes, searching for survivors. Police say the number of dead here is certain to rise. Reeta is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the rest of the days news. The army is launching a new Recruitment Campaign which emphasises the emotional and physical support given to soldiers. A series of radio and online adverts addresses concerns that potential recruits might have. There has been criticism from some former officers who have accused the army of bowing to Political Correctness. The new ads pose a series of questions. Growing up, i really had my heart set on joining the army. Another reassures would be recruits that religious faith will be respected. The army embraces the fact that you can come from a different faith. Even on exercise, theres always a quiet moment to go into a cabin and just sort of find a Little Corner and do your prayers there. Recruiting for the army is a constant battle. Every year, for seven years now, more soldiers have left the army than signed up. Theres a lot of internal debate about how best it should be done. I love the idea of the army. The army says its belonging campaign has already sparked a significant surge in interest, but others say this new series of ads panders to to Political Correctness and the so called snowflake generation. Last month, the new defence gavin williamson, halted plans to ditch the armys be the best slogan which has been used for decades. An internal report had claimed it was datist, elitist and non inclusive. This new campaign does include the slogan, but its not given the prominence it once had. 100 well known french women have signed an open letter defending the right of men to make sexual advances. The actress Catherine Deneuve is one of the signatories who say the recent wave of denunciations of Sexual Harassment following the Harvey Weinstein affair is creating a new feminism defined by hatred of men and sexuality. In the open letter published in le monde, the women say there is a new puritanism afoot in the world. Passengers on thameslink, southern and Great Northern services have suffered the worst disruption of any rail franchise according to a highly critical report. The governments spending watchdog, the National Audit office, says the countrys largest rail operator has failed to provide value for money. It also criticises the department for transport. Our business correspondent, theo leggett reports. Thameslink, southern and Great Northern are the large of largest of britains rail services. It provides services along the south coast and into london. Since 2016 the company has been embroiled in a bitter dispute with the rmt union, over its plans to use trains on which the driver, rather than the conductor, is in charge of opening and dlosing the doors. Over the past two years, there have been regular strikes on southern rail ways trains. This week, Great Northern services have also been affected. In fact, according to the National Audit office, since it was created, the franchise as experienced worst disruption than any other part of the network. 146,000 trains have been cancelled, or delayed for more than half an hour sincejuly 2015. Thats 7. 7 of services. Across the uk as thats 7. 7 of services. Across the ukasa thats 7. 7 of services. Across the uk as a whole, the figure is 2. 8 . The report claims that although most of the delays were down to industrial action, the department for transport should shoulder some of the blame. When it awarded the franchise, it didnt check that govia had enough drivers and didnt pay enough attention to the possible impact of industrial action and wasnt aware of poor state of the network. All that means the government has not been getting value more money. A new strain of spice has emerged in manchester in the last few weeks. Charities who work with drug users in the city say the illegal drug is causing devastation and even death among the Homeless Community. Spice was previously known as oning of the so called legal highs before being banned along with other substances in may 2016. The chancellor, philip hammond, and the brexit secretary, david davis, have told a german newspaper that any trade deal with the eu must include the Financial Services industry. The two cabinet ministers will make separate visits to meet Business Leaders in germany today, where they will both stress the importance of not erecting new barriers to trade. A body has been found in a garden after a woman walked into a Police Station and told officers she had killed and buried a man a number of years ago. Greater Manchester Police confirmed that human remains have been discovered at a house near stockport. A 63 year old woman has been arrested on suspicion of murder. A 16 year old boy will appear in court today charged with the murder of a shop assistant in north london. Vijay patel was attacked in a row over the sale of cigarette papers outside his shop in mill hill on saturday night. He later died in hospital. New measures to clamp down on Plastic Waste are to be extended by the government. Retailers with fewer than 250 staff are exempted from the levy. The idea is part of a 25 year plan to improve the environment. All retailers in scotland and wales are already required to charge for plastic bags. The search for Malaysia Airlines flight mh370 will resume today, nearly a year after efforts to locate the plane were officially suspended. The search for the aircraft, which went missing with 239 people on board in march 2014, was the largest in aviation history. It will now be resumed by a an American Company using unmanned submarines. Ajapanese astronaut has apologised after claiming hed grown 9cm since arriving at the International Space station three weeks ago. Nori shige kanai said he had in fact grown 2cm and blamed a measurement error. His original claim sparked global fascination among social media users. Astronauts can grow between 2cm to 5cm in space because the lack of gravity allows vertebrae in their spines to expand. Thats a summary of the latest bbc news. More at 9. 30am. Thank you, reeta. Anthony on facebook, we will bring you a film, which shows there isa bring you a film, which shows there is a dangerous strain of spice circulating on the streets of manchester. This is despite the fact that spice was banned a couple of yea rs that spice was banned a couple of years ago. Anthony says, when it was the so called legal high, and available in shops, we didnt see the same problems. Maybe this is the reason to legalise some drugs, control whats in them, the strength and put a tax on them at the same time. Scottie on facebook says, the war on drugs created the market for spice. One viewer tweets this, just one time, thats all it takes to go wrong. People dont listen. Ebony says, stop the dealers approaching them and get them locked up. No dealers, equals no spice. Get in touch if you have used spice 01 get in touch if you have used spice or affected by people who use it. Let me know your experience and what the difference has been since the ban on legal highs came into this country. There was almost a great result for bristol city . Yes, two minutes. Thats how close bristol city came to holding high flying Manchester City. Thats in the first leg of their League Cup Semifinal, the Runaway Premier League leaders needed a stoppage time winner from Sergio Aguero for their 2 1 win at home and bristol city boss lee johnson believes his team can still topple city when they come to ashton gate in a fortnight. Pep guardiola was full of praise for how bristol city approached the game. The visitors led before the break. A strong city side was named and after the break, city were level and just when you thought that the under dogs would leave with a draw and away goal, aguero popped up to score their winner in stoppage time. Wow, there is always aguero there. Now this growing feud betweenJose Mourinho and conti carries on, doesnt it . It does, indeed. He seems to be feuding with anybody, really, victoria. Victoria we are talking about jose really, victoria. Victoria we are talking aboutJose Mourinho, the Manchester United boss, ahead of the match. There is not much love lost between him and any other manager and in particular conti. This is the to and froa starting in 2016 when Jose Mourinho was back at Stamford Bridge with Manchester United. They we re bridge with Manchester United. They were hammered 4 0 by chelsea. Chelsea and conti celebrated wildly and Jose Mourinho was furious and hit out. This back and forth thing continued. Conti hit back in november, questioning Jose Mourinhos selection and victor moses who went on to play a big part in chelseas title winning season. Plenty more digs and lastjuly it got personal, Jose Mourinho claiming that conti had a hair transplant. On saturday, he called Jose Mourinho a little man after some jibes about contis match fixing suspension. This is what chelsea boss had to say yesterday. This looks a person thats great, i dont think so. But i think we both said things and we will see what happens in the future. I think that he said a series of words and used serious words and i wont forget this. This is not a problem from the club. This is a problem from the club. This is a problem between me and him. I stop. Stop. Lets cheer ourselves up from the feud, shall we . Nottingham forest fa cup hero on sunday was eric. He scored twice to knockout arsenal. This is his present. His wife catherine said they could get a dog if he scored a hat trick. He only got two on sunday it was a special two. Everyone on social media agreed it was good enough and this is them. What are they, labradors or spaniels . Guess what he called them . I missed that gunner for knocking out arsenal. It could have been a pug. More from sarah throughout the morning. People who work with drug users in manchester have told this programme theyre concerned theres a strong new strain of a synthetic form of cannabis known as spice and its having a devastating impact on those who use it. Spice was banned along with other psychoactive substances known then as so called legal highs in may 2016 but critics say that ban hasnt made it any harder to get hold of but instead has put it into the hands of drug dealers. Spice was officially linked to 27 deaths in 2016 but many believe the true figure could be much higher. Experts have told us that some strains are so strong taking it is like playing russian roulette and putting a loaded gun to your head. Our reporterjohn owen has spent some time in manchester. I mean, i smoke half an ounce a day. Its early evening in piccadilly gardens on the edge of manchesters northern quarter. Outside the chain stores and fast food restaurants men and women are collapsed in doorways, slumped forward or slurring incoherently. These are the human consequences of the potent psychoactive substance known as spice. A highly addictive synthetic cannabinoid that has taken a cruel toll on the Homeless Community here. And now two front line charities have expressed fears that a new and much stronger strain may have entered circulation, with potentially life threatening consequences. So called legal highs like spice were made illegal in may of 2016. But its clear that among the rough sleeper and homeless communities here, they are as prevalent as ever. Almost everybody we speak to has a story to tell about spice. They describe how it compounds the already intensely complex lives of people stranded on the streets. About how its being pushed by gangs of unscrupulous dealers preying on desperation. And about how for People Living through winter on the streets, its most valuable effect is numbness and its ability to pass the time. Its very, very unusual to find a young person who is street homeless in the city centre of manchester, who isnt taking spice. I would say between 95 and 98 of those young street Homeless People are smoking spice on some level. Far from any perception that these are soft drugs like cannabis, these chemicals are, in fact, extremely dangerous, often leading to hospitalisation, even death. Its almost like putting a loaded gun to your head and playing russian roulette. An organisation here thats distributing food to the rough sleeping community. As you walk past, you can really smell that very distinctive spice smell. Its almost an acrid, really chemical smell, and its all around that area where the food is being distributed. Manchester metropolitan university is one of the only facilities in the country licensed to test new psychoactive substances like spice. Dr Oliver Sutcliffe is one of the uks foremost authorities on the drug. He explained that the samples they test vary widely in their potency, but that the most recent generation are by far the strongest theyve seen. Weve seen probably a couple of hundred different variations that have appeared. And the most recent ones, the Third Generation Synthetic Cannabinoids, which have been classified in the uk, they are significantly more potent than the other previous generations that have been seen. He went on to say that since the ban there was no way to tell in advance how strong any given strain of spice is. Historically, before the ban, the samples used to come in packets which were very brightly manufactured, collared, they were manufactured very professionally, they had information on the back of them. They seemed to demonstrate some idea of what was actually in the samples. Now what you are seeing now on the street are samples that look like this, and they are all in very nondescript snap bags, so theres no way to discriminate between product to product, and because of that you dont know potentially what synthetic cannabinoid youve got present in the sample, but also, you dont know how strong they are. Olivers mmu colleague, dr rob ralph, agrees that a ban hasnt helped to reduce the problem, as dealers Exchange Small quantities of spice for the money that users have been able to raise whilst begging. Now its actually easier to access spice than it was before. Dealers will actually come up now were here. Homeless people say theyve been woken up in the morning by dealers, waking them up, giving them a bag or two. And then they come back a few hours later, when theyve managed to earn some money begging, and get the money from them. So its actually easier now than before for psychotic substances, to actually access it. Amongst the samples that Manchester Metropolitan University has received for testing from police, the strength of cannabinoids being smoked on the street seems to have stabilised recently. But speaking to people who are daily interactions with spice users, there are fears that a stronger strain may now have re entered circulation. At life share, a charity that works with vulnerable young people, julie has been seeing the effects of this drug up close for some time. And she has no doubt that the strength of whats being smoked has increased in recent weeks. Its horrendous. We got people coming in absolutely white as a ghost. They cant string a sentence together. Weve had a young lad who actually died outside in an alleyway. We put him into an ambulance, he was resuscitated. He went to a e, three hours later, he was back in town buying more spice. So its dying doesnt put people off, that will give you an indication of how serious the addiction is. So that guy, in that case, he was medically dead . Yeah, medically dead. And he was lucky enough to be resuscitated and he went to buy more spice . Yeah. Thats how scary it is. And thats one of, you know, i could name a number of incidents. Weve had people woken up things happening around the back end of them that they werent aware of. We have had people who have been gang raped, people forced into sex work. And this new strain, you could literally be talking to somebody, and you turn around and theyre just literally gone. Theyre not there. Obviously we make sure they are breathing, but an hour later they are all back to normal. In your mind that all very clear evidence that there is a new, more potent strain around the streets at the moment . Yeah, absolutely, because we deal with 16 to 25 year old young Homeless People. We see the spice addiction on a daily basis. Its normally quite a bonding experience, being around the Homeless Community. But the ones who are on spice, we find now, will stealfrom each other, they will beat each other up. Its just completely changes the whole persona of people. But this one around at the minute is really, really worrying. Back on the streets we spoke to one man who didnt want his face to be shown. He told us that after taking a drag on what he thought was an ordinary roll up, you completely lost control for several hours. The tobacco had been mixed with an ultra strong strain of spice. And that was afterjust a couple of drags . Just one. One. One pull. One pull . One pull, yeah. And youlljust completely out of it . I was out of it for five hours. I couldnt get myself back. Really . That must have been really scary, was it . It was, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Like almost everyone else we spoke to, he also told us about individuals who he believes had lost their lives as a direct result of the drug. The most recent official figures say that in 2016 there were just 27 cases in which Synthetic Cannabinoids were mentioned on death certificates in england and wales. But many suspect the real figure could be much higher. We spoke to to risha. And as we spoke, she pointed out several spice dealers and users in the square. Yes, ive known people who you suspect have died taking spice. But because the medical professions dont know whats in it, they cant pinpoint that as a cause of death. They have to say that the thing thats actually killed them is their heart has stopped, or pneumonia or Something Like that. So thats on the cause of death. We knew a particular gentleman who is alcoholic, and he was passed a joint. He didnt realise spice was in it. He took a couple of puffs and fell to the ground. And he ended up dying a week later. They had to turn the life support machine off. One particular gentleman, who we have known for a very long time, is now in a nursing home. He cant talk, cant sort of get up, he cant live his own life, through taking spice. Spice can sometimes stop time and take you away from the circumstances that you are within. Sometimes i cant blame people for wanting to get away from the desperate situation they are in. And its having a devastating effect. Ive seen people who can, i can have a chat with and speak to, and theyre really coherent, just take such a nosedive and their health has deteriorated so much that im scared they might die on the streets. Its awful. It remains far from clear how many people have died from using spice. But evidence of this drug leaving ruined lives in its wake is all too abundant here. And the fact is that these chemicals and their physiological effect on users are poorly understood. Manchester is far from unique in this respect. But conditions here can only be described as epidemic. With strains like the one now said to be at large in manchester, its hard to believe that more lives wont be destroyed before the situation is reversed. Really keen to hear from you if youve used spice or youre affected by people who do use it has the legislation banning it worked . Do get in touch in the usual ways. We have had a text message from carol who says she is a probation officer in london, shes not sure why its trying comparisons to cannabis because it vastly different and has much more devastating effects. Cannabis is a relatively safe d rug effects. Cannabis is a relatively safe drug with minimum long term effects on users compared to alcohol and spice. Hence why cannabis has been realised in Many American states. Spice has horrendous effects causing temporary paralysis, heart problems and psychotic episodes. I have had clients in their 20s, says carol, who have had heart attacks after taking spice. I have also had clients say that when it was legal prison officers would bring it into the jail for them prison officers would bring it into the jailfor them and prison officers would bring it into the jail for them and that is why the jail for them and that is why the offenders got addicted to it. I have multiple offenders who have entered prison having never tried spice only to come out with a serious addiction to it. Its a horrendous drug and something drastic needs to be done to educate people on the dangers and get it off the streets. And julia on e mail says spice is more readily available and cheaper than cannabis and that is an outrage. Why cant the government follow the lead of amsterdam and either legalise cannabis or create exemptions for the use of cannabis and bring in cafe shops like amsterdam and regulate them as well as collecting tax on them. We will talk more about spice and the effect of this new strain, more dangerous strain on users on the streets of manchester in the second hour of the programme. Really interesting to hear from people like carol who is a probation officer and comes across the effects officer and comes across the effects of this drug. If you have relevant experience let me know, get in touch on the e mail, and we will feed that into the conversation. The trial continues of former Crewe Alexandra and man city football coach Barry Bennell. The 63 year old is accused of 48 counts of child sexual abuse against 11 complainants, who were aged between eight and 14 at the time of the alleged offences. Every day on this programme at around this time well be bringing you up to date with the evidence in court. We can speak now to our sports news reporter, david ornstein, whos outside Liverpool Crown court. David, tell us what happened yesterday . Victoria yesterday was essentially the first day of this trial, Barry Bennell is facing now known as richard jones. The prosecuting barrister set out the case against Barry Bennell and he appeared on video link winning a greyjumperand he is appeared on video link winning a greyjumper and he is now known as richard jones. Mrjohnson qc described Barry Bennell as a predatory and determined paedophile with pretty much unfettered access to young boys dreaming of life in professional football who had the particular predilection to prepubescent boys and is alleged to have abused one boy on more than 100 occasions. Victoria the jury were told that Barry Bennell worked as a youth coach in cheshire, manchester and derbyshire in the late 70s and early 1990s. The jury would and derbyshire in the late 70s and early 1990s. Thejury would hear evidence over this eight week trial that concerned allegations against Barry Bennell by boys in england and wales and also the United States and that mr bennell had served prison sentences in both jurisdictions. They will hear that some of the abuse took place at the ground of Crewe Alexandra where he was a coach and on tours and that many incidents occurred at his home. While he was a skilled and relatively successful football coach though was a much darker side. Thejury were football coach though was a much darker side. The jury were told that while listening to the evidence they must decide whether this is a group of men, the alleged victims, are a group of men that Barry Bennell says arejumping on the bandwagon group of men that Barry Bennell says are jumping on the bandwagon and making up false and malicious allegations for financial gain, essentially compensation, or if this isa essentially compensation, or if this is a series of serious allegations by ed davey is paedophile against a very vulnerable lads. What are we expecting today . Today we expect to hear from the first witness, Barry Bennell is 63 years old, we should remember, and faces 48 charges of Sexual Abuse Involving 11 alleged victims between eight and 14. The date ranges between 1979 and 1991. Before the trial started Barry Bennell redid guilty to seven charges involving three boys aged between 11 and 14 between 1981 and 1991. He is not here in person because of ill health we are told. He is fed through a chip. But if he is to give evidence he will need to attend court and as i said it is expected to last eight weeks, this trial. David ornstein outside Liverpool Crown court. Thank you. The trial continues. Well bring you coverage of that trial every day on this programme. An investigation into the death of a baby girl in nottingham has concluded that her death was preventible. Do University Students need to be protected from free speech on their cam us . Mps are going to be discussing the issue today. Well hear from going to be discussing the issue today. Well hearfrom both going to be discussing the issue today. Well hear from both sides. Time for the latest news, heres reeta. The bbc News Headlines this morning at least 13 people have died in flash floods and mudslides in Southern California. Witnesses say torrents raged through the streets and boulders the size of cars rolled down the hillsides. Hundreds of people remain trapped in their homes. Emergency services said they expected the number of deaths to rise. The army is launching a new Recruitment Campaign which emphasises the emotional and physical support given to soldiers. A series of radio, television and online adverts addresses concerns potential recruits might have about issues such as their sexuality or religion. Theres been criticism from some former officers, whove accused the army of bowing to Political Correctness. But the ministry of defence says its belonging campaign has already sparked significant from people interested injoining up. 100 well known french women have signed an open letter defending the right of men to make sexual advances. The actress Catherine Deneuve is one of the signatories who say the recent wave of denunciations of Sexual Harassment following the Harvey Weinstein affair is creating a new feminism defined by hatred of men and sexuality. In the open letter published in le monde, the women say there is a new puritanism afoot in the world. Passengers on thameslink, southern and Great Northern services have suffered the worst disruption of any rail franchise according to a highly critical report. The National Audit office says the countrys largest rail operator has failed to provide value for money. It says industrial action has been a majorfactorfor it says industrial action has been a major factor for delays, it says industrial action has been a majorfactorfor delays, but it says industrial action has been a major factor for delays, but the department for transport has also made decision which have negatively impacted on passengers. The government has admitted the disruption has been unacceptable and has called on the rmt union to end what it calls needless strike action. New measures to clamp down on Plastic Waste are to be announced by the government. They include the extension of the five pence charge on plastic bags to all shops in england. Retailers with fewer than 250 staff are currently exempted from the levy. The idea is part of a 25 year plan to improve the environment. All retailers in scotland and wales are already required to charge for plastic bags. Heres some sport now with sarah. Bristol city were two minutes away from holding premier League Leaders Manchester City in the first leg of their League Cup Semifinal. The sides were level at 1 1 before Sergio Aguero popped up in stoppage time to give pep guardiolas side a slim advantage going into the second leg at ashton gate in a fortnight. The war of words continues between Antonio Conte and Jose Mourinho. The chelsea boss called mourinhno a little man and says he wont forget this after the Manchester United manager brought up contes match fixing suspension last weekend. And england propjoe marler will miss the first two six nations games after being suspended for six weeks. And thats your sports headlines. Baby Harriet Hawkins was born, dead, at Nottingham City Hospital on 17th april 2016. She died as a result of a mismanaged labour and an independent investigation has just concluded that her death was almost certainly preventable. Harriets fatherjack is a hospital consultant. Her mother sarah is a senior physiotherapist. Both work for the Hospital Trust responsible for the death of their baby theirfirst child. Since that day, the couple have campaigned to force the trust to acknowledge it made mistakes, mistakes which they believed had been covered up. You might remember them telling us such last year, but it has taken almost two years for an independent report to reach the same conclusion. Sarah had been in labourfor six days. The couple had made ten phone calls and two visits to the hospital. By the time she was finally admitted in the late stages of labour, their daughter had died. It took another nine hours before sarah was able to give birth. Sarah hawkins is here and so as jack. We can speak to them both now and their solicitor, janet baker. How did you respond . It was a mixture of feelings really. It was relief to actually be heard and for there to be official acknowledgement that, you know, harriets death was almost certainly preventible. It was Just Brilliant to be, for the external rerue team to be open and honest and transparent and thats all we had asked from anyone since harriet died. But obviously with that, it brings Great Sadness because as you say it is a trust we work for. Minutes after harriets death all we had been saying, there we re death all we had been saying, there were problems, they hadnt been open and they hadnt been honest or transparent and we wouldnt be sats here today if they had and it was, it isjust. Here today if they had and it was, it is just. Its, here today if they had and it was, it isjust. Its, it has been here today if they had and it was, it is just. Its, it has been a very ha rd it is just. Its, it has been a very hard time. How did you respond, jack . Really very much the same. Its very difficult when you know the truth and other people are telling you that youve got it wrong. It feels like weve been accused of lying. I think it is worth mentioning that nobody from the hospital has listened to our story which weve made copious notes on at the time. Nobody has sat down and said, what actually happened . What they have done is listened to reports from other members of staff involved in her case that dont match with reality and thats, so its been very tough, but having this report, i mean it gives nottingham no further opportunity to try and wriggle out of what actually happened. We are deeply concerned that in the 21 months or so since harriet died the problems have persisted and they shouldnt and they didnt need to. 0k, well talk about that in a moment. It is worth reminding our audience that initially the hospital did its own internal investigation without your involvement. Correct. And concluded that staff made no errors and that harriet had died from an infection. You know a bit about infections jack, dont you, so you we re infections jack, dont you, so you were able to challenge that and the pathologists report, saying that had there been an infection serious enough to kill harriet you would have been extremely unwell as her mother and probably required intensive care treatment. Also for the benefit of our audience, an external review was carried out by a medical professional who the trust then offered a job to and the draft report she had done said harriets death was contributed to by five things. When you got the final report, it had been changed to say what . That harriets death might have been prevented, but certainly, might. So. Might have been avoided. Thank you. We felt, so we thought that directly contributed to by was onlyjust Strong Enough anyway, but it was a definite improvement on the internal report, but might, i am afraid is political speak. I think the thing there is between the draft and the final report, it was only given for factual accuracy change and thats not a factual accuracy change. And we asked the hospital to change it back and they said it is not our policy to change back reports and we ask them to explain why it had changed and they never responded. Ask them to explain why it had changed and they never respondedlj wa nt changed and they never responded. wa nt to changed and they never responded. want to ask you about the impact of your babys want to ask you about the impact of your ba bys death want to ask you about the impact of your babys death on you since then . It is so hard to put into words. I dont think we have been able to grieve yet because we have had this fight. All we have asked for is to be listened to and for the trust to be listened to and for the trust to be open. We want harriet, you know, to be worth something and for an improvement into the safety of their service, that was all we were asking and we didnt get that and we havent got answers. Weve got apologies, but apologies dont bring back our dead daughter. Were not sure what theyre apologising for either. It feels like a platitude rather than a direct apology about the various problems that we have faced with them. Thats the statement that i have from the chief executive of Nottingham University Hospitals Trust trust. I offer my deepest sympathy to sarah and jack for the stress of their death daughter harriet caused them. It is likely that harriet would have survived had it not been for several shortcomings in care. Why do you say it isa shortcomings in care. Why do you say it is a platitude from your point of view . We are disturbed that the report said almost certainly and that the chief executive has chosen to use the word, likely again it feels like an attempt to turn down the volume of what is a very clear report. To be fair to the chief executive, that is a step up from the previous apologies. So we dont wa nt the previous apologies. So we dont want to be dismissive of that. But how many apologies have you had by now . They might as well signed off theire mails with, now . They might as well signed off their e mails with, sorry for adding to your distress. They say they have made steps to address the shortcomings that arose from the death of harriet and strengthened the maternity Leadership Structure and improved the voment of parents and improved the voment of parents and strengthened governance processes. And strengthened governance processes. Should that be reassuring to other parents in the area, other pregnant women . We dont know the detail and they should have served the detail. Strengthening maternity leadership is positive. Thats not the only criticism. There are lots of criticism about the way the two maternity departments operate and communicate. We know because it has beenin communicate. We know because it has been in the news they were criticised by the coroner in 2014 for conducting a cofully inadequate internal investigation. Were shocked in 2016 they are still con dicting woefully inadequate internal investigations because it has taken so investigations because it has taken so long to get the hospital to believe us, we have, were concerned what has been happening in the last two years and there is a recent coroners inquest that has concluded Natural Causes contributed to by neglect and that is a very significant. For a baby . Yes. At that same hospital . Yes. I think one of my concerns there is that they havent actually addressed any clinical practise and we asked why some of the clinicians who have been highlighted in the report as failing to deliver appropriate care havent been referred to their governing bodies. The trust responded with they didnt feel like they met the threshold for referral and im not sure, our daughter dying, im not sure what their threshold is for the referral. L number of midwives have been retrained or sent on courses or whatever. 18 months you have been fighting for this. You both work there, worked there. How difficult has that been . We havent, i went back to work for three months, but myjob is notjust at back to work for three months, but myjob is not just at the back to work for three months, but myjob is notjust at the hospital, that was very tough. But they have, i got my p45 between christmas and new year, so i am now unemployed. Im from next month im not getting paid because im unable to return to work. And harriet is still in the hospital because we have been, we still havent been able to have her funeral. What . Yes. How . It is only because we have got official acknowledgement in this report that her death was almost certainly preventible that we can now have it, but before with the previous reports, they have always tried to blame a weakness in us, a weakness in harriet like the infection so we havent been able to have her funeral. Right. Was that, was that your choice that you wanted to wait for a report that vindicated you so you were going to leave the body of your baby there . We were so shocked by their correlation between what actually happened and the pathology report that we didnt want to do something permanent that would provide useful information and we we re provide useful information and we were right. So, the final report has been helped by us not having harriets cremation. I understand. Now that we have this, we wanted to wait for this to be published. It has been slightly delayed in being published, but not by the team who wrote it. Having your daughter lying ina wrote it. Having your daughter lying in a mortuary for 20 months is not a pleasa nt in a mortuary for 20 months is not a pleasant feeling. Janet baker is the solicitor. What next . Were going to refer the matter to the Crown Prosecution Service because we feel that there have been breaches of the health ca re have been breaches of the Health Care Act 2008 in relation to the duty of candor. As can be seen, there was no you are alleging criminal offences may have been committed when it came to the hospital being open and transparent about what actually happened . Yes, initially they did not undertake an investigation it was only after pressure from jack and say that that they did anything although their own protocol required them to investigate this matter as a serious untoward incident. When they did investigate the incident jack and sarah were not involved and it was concluded there was no fault by anyone at the hospital and the death of harriet was caused by infection. The latest report has found that that was certainly not the case and that was certainly not the case and that the pathologist was given information which led him to conclude it was probably infection and not given the full clinical picture which probably would have led him to a different conclusion. So we feel that is sufficient ground for us to refer the matter to the cps to investigate under the health and social care act. Under regulations which came into force in 2014. We are also going to refer to the health and safety executive because the most recent report highlights Patient Safety issues in systemic errors which we are not convinced have been put right and certainly were in existence at the time of harriets death and at least five months later when the other baby died in similar circumstances. Thank you for talking to us, janet bakker solicitor, and sarah and jack hawkins, thank you for coming on the programme. Nottingham University Hospitals trust told us theyve already made substantial changes to address the shortcomings in their systems of Clinical Care and governance that arose from this case and have completed a broader review of Maternity Services. They say theyve strengthened the maternity Leadership Structure, improved involvement of parents in the investigation process, and strengthened governance processes. They also say theyve completed a full review of Patient Safety and outcomes in its maternity service. While areas of improvement have been identified, they say outcomes in their Maternity Services are no different to those in other similar units in england and wales. Lets read some messages about spice coming from you after seeing are some little earlier, jacob says i am a recreational drug user and tried spice when i was 16 because it was easier to get than cannabis and it was one of the most potent drugs i have ever tried and one of the worst experiences i have had mentally and physically. Vastly different to cannabis. I possibly could see the appeal to Homeless People as you become so detached from reality. I had hoped the ban would make it less readily available but its done the opposite as i know more and more dealers are selling it. Cameron said i have been inside and seen the effect on people injail and its the worst thing i have ever seen. People smoke it because they think it is safe like cannabis when it is the opposite. Since i have been out ofjaili the opposite. Since i have been out ofjail i have seen people smoking spice in the town centre, sleeping on the floor and it is awful. Keep those coming in, we will talk more about spice in the remaining part of the programme. Coming up, he was diagnosed with depression as a teenager and despite taking anti depressants realised he was still depressed. Well speak to johann hari about his new book which questions what we know about Mental Health. To what extent is free speech being suppressed in universities . Mps are hearing evidence later today about whether the law does enough to protect freedom of speech on university campuses. In recent years there have been a number of high profile cases in which speakers with controversial views have been prevented from appearing at campuses, a practice known as no platforming. Supporters say it prevents hate speech and stops Vulnerable People being harmed. Opponents say it stops debate. Last year the then universities ministerjojohnson said universities could be fined if they fail to protect free speech. Its an issue we first looked at two years ago. The policy is a policy that says in our building and im talking the four walls that we have in the students union, that is for students we want to make it accessible for everyone. Were also making sure that all voices, whether they are lgbt, disabled, black, women, trans, have a voice, because we know in society that they are marginalised and dont have a voice. Thats the key thing. Were not saying we dont live in a false bubble. Its a place where youd expect to hear dangerous ideas, not be frightened of them, to actually go in. I mean, people were saying, i might feel vulnerable. I think that you will feel uncomfortable, vulnerable, everything will be scary, because guess what . Ideas that have changed the world historically over many years have fought racism, have got us equality they were offensive, dangerous, scary to those people who heard them. Lets speak to patrick kilduff, president of the university of edinburghs student association, who is giving evidence at the inquiry today. The university banned Robin Thickes blurred lines from being played at Student Union events because the lyrics undermine and degrade women. Owl fisher is a transgender filmmaker and campaigned to stop Germain Greer from speaking at International Womens day in brighton. And linda bellos was no platformed by a cambridge Student Society because of her views about trans women that they arent the same as women who were born female. Thank you all of you for talking to us, i would like to hear you talking to each other about the issue of freedom of speech, not the subject of views. Let me ask you to start off with, linda is free speech being suppressed at universities . Off with, linda is free speech being suppressed at universities7m off with, linda is free speech being suppressed at universities . It looks like it, i dont want to hype it but. The difficulty is if what was said to me is widespread then we have a problem. I dont think stu d e nts have a problem. I dont think students should be protected, i put that in inverted commas, from ideas they might disagree with. I think they might disagree with. I think they should develop robust arguments in response, that is what we go to university for, i did, as a mature student. No owl . It is beyond differing opinions and disagreement, it is opinions which are hateful and stigmatising towards a group of people which is why i think universities say they are there to protect students and they did want them to be exposed to views which could harm them and people in that situation. I think the discussion needs to be about what sort of opinions are being expressed, we can differ on opinions are being expressed, we can differon certain opinions are being expressed, we can differ on certain topics but when we are speaking about peoples lives it has real consequences and ramifications towards people and especially minorities and we need to be careful about what we put out there and what is allowed to be said. Goahead linda. I can see wa nted said. Goahead linda. I can see wanted to respond . Could you hear what owl said . Yes i did, i did not realise you were addressing me, sorry. I heard it and i think about the hurt i have experienced in these 67 years of my life in britain. I was not protected, what i did do was i think develop responses in order to cope. I was not intending to speak to students in ways that would be hurtful or disrespectful of where they wear or where they thought they were, i wanted and i still want to explore with other human beings ideas, thoughts, i happen to think that gender is very much a man made notion, just like a race is. There is only one race, the human race, yet there is racism because others are treated yet there is racism because others a re treated less yet there is racism because others are treated less favourably because of the colour of their skin. There is the same stuff with gender. would say it does look like its all about perception getting ahead of reality. Almost everyone who is seeing free speech is under attack at universities spends no time in Higher Education institutions. The comments were ignorant because we know free speech is alive and well, we host almost five and a half thousand events, the largest Arts Festival in the world, and only a few events are referred to the Compliance Group by virtue of government legislation and nothing to do with the students association. Is it right there are some speakers who will be invited would be no platform to because you want to protect a group of students . platform to because you want to protect a group of students . I think its right we take security seriously. What do you mean . Their risk elements to inviting certain speakers so we have to account for that. What do you think would happen, go on linda . that. What do you think would happen, go on linda . I wonder if they being black might hurt some of them because most of them are white . Isa them because most of them are white . Is a risk . Spice i think that is quite an inflammatory statement. The security risks i am talking about are the General Health and safety of people attending an event which is why no speakers have been. People attending an event which is why no speakers have been. people attending an event which is why no speakers have been. I am telling you what i believe you refer to as now platforming is as you know, you were disinvited. Why that definition i have been no platform by thousands of tv programmes this morning but i dont get an platform to stand in the media and say i was no platform. You are currently on one of the larger tv programmes in the country talking about. As are you. Yes but im not demonising a false notion of now platforming. Am i . In what way . I think the reasons people might be disinvited is their views are harming a Vulnerable Group in society. It is not because people are not allowed to speak because of who they are it is because of the views which have severe consequences towards people and i am sorry that that makes you side but it has real consequences upon the lives of people. My views include my experience of racism, that is part of my view my experience and analysis of power and during construction, of systems that are created usually by men, white men, to highlight and create a hierarchy in which some of us are given some status and others are not. Those are my views, is that dangerous to you . It is dangerous when it starts advocating against my rights and these views are advocating against my rights, the campaign you have aligned ledger southward does. That is untrue. I support the 2004 gender recognition act. I disagree with some of the proposed changes to that act which will have a disadvantageous impact upon those of us disadvantageous impact upon those of us who remain female women. Owl can you explain what harm it does you to hear the kind of use linda has about trans women, what specific harm . The main consequence of people denying trans people their humanity and what they are contributes to a very de vanna today and the scrum and today discourse and we can see this when we look at suicide rates for trans people and how vulnerable they are in society because these views contribute to it and the reasons trans people are often discriminated against or cannot get access to services is because of discrimination and stigma. Why do you believe the best way to overcome those views which you find offensive is to silence them and not hear them . I would not say silence them, i think linda has every platform to see her views, ijust i think linda has every platform to see herviews, ijust think i think linda has every platform to see her views, ijust think in this case its not about her being silenced it is about a specific university not wanting to invite her to speak at a specific event and it is the right because they are taking a stand against use she has portrayed. I am objecting to some proposals the government for making which will be disadvantageous to those of us who are women, that is a matter, it is not a matter of the view but im allowed to have them, i think it is right in a free society, we dont all have to agree with each other but we do and can and should be able to disagree with each other. Againl be able to disagree with each other. Again i think we have a right to disagree and i think views should be challenged but its about doing it in be challenged but its about doing itina be challenged but its about doing it in a secure environment and now platforming and those things you speak of, the people on the no platform realists are terrorist organisations, people arrested for inciting violence and racial hatred and those other things we take into account when we invite speakers, like any organisation. Am i1 of them . I am asking you, i am one of these people . You are not on the now platforming list. But in this case i was disinvited . Yes, and that is one institution s decision not to invite you to something. Six organisations are banned from campuses including national action, the bnp. Critics of bands like that point to the fact, you will all remember neck grabban the leader of the bnp, the then leader of the bnp on question time whose support seems to fall away after he was able to hear his views. That is someone who was put on a stage in the bbc studio ina secure was put on a stage in the bbc studio in a secure setting to air his views. Most universities dont have the resources to put on that i am sure broadcasting house had to put on to accommodate for neck griffin that night. Thank you all very much for coming on the programme. Many thanks for your time. The latest news and sport in a moment. Lets get the latest weather update with carol. Better late than never, this morning we have had a variety of weather, mist and fog, beautiful pictures sentin mist and fog, beautiful pictures sent in from dorset by one of our weather watchers, this one of line regis shows a lovely sunrise and clearer skies. For many of us a band of rain moving east but behind it it will be much whiter than it has been the last couple of days with sunshine coming through. Mist and fog patches lifting from all but Northern Ireland where we still do have quite a bit of fog and that will slowly left into low at cloud and it wont lift for many at all. At the same time weve also got rain pushing over towards the east, lingering across yorkshire and lincolnshire into east anglia to the course of the afternoon but move away from that and there is a handbag of cloud with the cloud continually breaking up and we will see sunshine, some of us already have the sunshine. Temperatures this afternoon in plymouth night breezes will feel nice and across wales, vastly improved compared to last few days, more bright spells and sunshine and higher temperatures. Northern ireland will hang on to the low cloud with fog through the day for some, but it will be breaks it will be bright rather than sunny, western and Central Scotland seeing sunshine, rain across the far north east and also the northern isles. Through this evening and overnight we will so have some of this rain but with all the moisture in the atmosphere we are looking at some fog forming quite widespread tonight compared to the nightjust gone across Northern Ireland, parts of wales, the midlands and southern counties, there will also be patchy frost as well. Tomorrow the fog will ta ke frost as well. Tomorrow the fog will take its time to clear for some it will lift into low cloud, for others it will not clear at all, it will have an adverse impact on the temperatures, it will feel cold if youre stuck underneath it but where it left and we expect that to be towards the west and the north we are looking at sunshine but tempered just that bit more low, the max temperature in glasgow only three celsius. Friday morning starts off ona celsius. Friday morning starts off on a grey note, once again with some patchy fog, touch of frost here and they are but the further east you are the brighter it will be because by then we will have another weather front waiting in the wings in the west which will bring in rain and some strengthening winds. Through the course of ready into saturday it will move slowly from the west towards the east. The timing of this weather front could change so at the moment what we think saturday is it will be wet across western scotland and into west wales and South West England but if this slows up obviously it will be drier in some of those areas. The driest conditions once again will be the further east that you do travel. Hello, its wednesday, its 10 oclock, im victoria derbyshire. Charities who work with drug users in manchester have told this programme that a new strain of the synthetic drug spice is having a devastating affect on the city. We knew a particular gentleman who is alcoholic and he was passed a joint. He didnt realise spice was in it. He took a couple of puffs and fell to the ground and he ended up dying a week later. Well be speaking to people directly affected by the drug. Fyouve used spice or youre affected by people who use it, do get in touch and tell us what kind of difference the ban has made. No more macho your country needs you and be the best the army is changing the way it advertises for new recruits in an attempt to demonstate it welcomes people from all backgrounds. I thought the army was dominated by men. Well speak to people who have served in the armed forces. Your reaction to this is very welcome. A french actress has said men should be allowed to hit on women without being forced out of theirjobs. Catherine deneuve is one of 100 well known french women to sign a letter in the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal. We;ll speak to one of the signatures. Reeta is in the bbc newsroom with a summary of the rest of the days news. At least 13 people have died in mudslides and floods in Southern California. Witnesses say that torrents raged through the streets. Hundreds of people remain trapped in their homes. Emergency services said they expected the number of deaths to rise. The army is launching a new Recruitment Campaign which emphasises the emotional and physical support given to soldiers. A series of radio and online adverts addresses concerns that potential recruits might have. There has been criticism from some former officers who have accused the army of bowing to Political Correctness. The ministry of defence says its campaign has sparked Significant Interest from people in joining campaign has sparked Significant Interest from people injoining up. 100 well known french women have signed an open letter defending the right of men to make sexual advances. The actress Catherine Deneuve is one of the signatories who say the recent wave of denunciations of Sexual Harassment following the Harvey Weinstein affair is creating a new feminism defined by hatred of men and sexuality. In the open letter published in le monde, the women say there is a new puritanism afoot in the world. Two burmese journalist have been charged in officialth court with breaking myanmars official secrets act. The arrest of the two journalists, who work for the righters news agency, has been widely condemned. Passengers on thameslink, southern and Great Northern services have suffered the worst disruption of any rail franchise according to a highly critical report. The governments spending watchdog, the National Audit office, says the countrys largest rail operator has failed to provide value for money. It says industrial action has been a factor for delays. The government admitted the disruption has been unacceptable and called on the rmt to cancel needless strike action. New measures to clamp down on Plastic Waste are to be extended by the government. Retailers with fewer than 250 staff are exempted from the levy. The idea is part of a 25 year plan to improve the environment. All retailers in scotland and wales are already required to charge for plastic bags. Thats a summary of the latest bbc news. More at 10. 30am. Thank you, reeta. Thank you for your comments about free speech. A viewer tweets, when free speech. A viewer tweets, when free speech. A viewer tweets, when free speech is sensored by the state, it is the start of a slippery slope of state control. Lisa says, i am at university and i have in no issues regarding free speech. I dont think there is any need for the state to intervene. You can whatsapp and e mail and so on, so forth. Heres some sport now with sarah. Bristol city boss leejohnson believes his team can still topple Manchester City after pushing them to the limit at the etihad stadium. They were two minutes away from leaving with a draw until Sergio Aguero scored the late, late winner. Pep guardiola was full of praise for how positive bristol city were. They led just before the break after this penalty from bobby reid. City named a strong side and after the break, Kevin De Bruyne got them level. And just when you thought they would hold on for the draw aguero popped up to score the winner. Chelsea take on arsenal in the second semifinal tonight at Stamford Bridge. But believe it or not, were actually talking about Manchester United boss Jose Mourinho ahead of it his feud with Antonio Conte shows no sign of stopping. The to and fro between the pair perhaps began back in october 2016. When mourinho hit out at conte for celebrating too hard after united lost 4 0 at Stamford Bridge. The pair have been bickering since. The latest from conte, hes called mourinhno a little man after he brought up contes match fixing suspension last weekend. He looks a person thats very great, i dont think so. But i think we both say the things and we will see what happens in the future. I think that he said a series of words, used a series of words and i wont forget this. This is not a problem from the club. This is not a problem from the club. This is not a problem from the club. This is a problem between me and him. I stop. Stop. After the poor ashes series, englands cricketers begin their one day campaign with a match against a cricket australia eleven, in sydney tomorrow. Thats ahead of the First One Day International on sunday and wicket keeperjoss buttler says the players remain positive. History tells you, it is always a very, very tough tour coming here for england and playing in australia and tough tour, but i think the guys will dust themselves down and come again. There is fantastic cricketers and the guys who are here seem in good spirits and im sure they are looking forward to the white ball arena and the freedom that brings. Former world number one, novak djokovic, says he intends to play in the Australian Open for now. Djokovic, who has dropped to number 14 in the world, returned after six months out with an elbow injury to beat Dominic Thiem at the kooyong classic. Hell be chasing a record seventh Australian Open title if he competes at the tournament which begins on monday. The elbow needed more time to recover. I am gating in the groove and getting my elbow from a match play and today was the first best of three match that ive played since wimbledon last year. So, im very happy with the way it went. Heather watson, the british number two is into the last eight at the hobart international. And thats your sport for now. Thanks, sarah. People who work with drug users in manchester have told this programme that a new, ultra potent strain of the synthetic cannabinoid spice is causing devastating affects in the city. They say the ban on formerly legal highs, introduced in may 2016, has made the epidemic in manchester worse and more dangerous because users dont know how strong the strains are that theyre smoking. Strains vary widely in potency, but evidence suggests that some can lead to hospitalisation or even death. Our reporterjohn owen has been investigating. We bought you his full report earlier. Heres a short extract. Its early evening in piccadilly gardens on the edge of manchesters northern quarter. And the human consequences of a substance known as spice, a highly addictive synthetic form of cannabis, are plain to see. I mean, i smoke half an ounce a day. And thats, you know, i still seem normal. Im not normal. But if you look at half of them, they havent got a clue what day it is. Ijust wish now i knew a way of getting away from it. So called legal highs like spice were made illegal in may of 2016. But its clear that among the rough sleeper and homeless communities here, they are as prevalent as ever. And now, two front line charities have expressed fears that a new and much stronger strain may have entered circulation with potentially life threatening consequences. An organisation here thats distributing food to the rough sleeper community. As you walk past, you can really smell that very distinctive spice smell. Its almost an acrid, really chemical smell, and its all around that area where the food is being distributed. At life share, a charity that works with vulnerable young people, julie has been seeing the effects of this drug up close for some time. And she has no doubt that the strength of whats being smoked has increased in recent weeks. We have got people coming in absolutely white as a ghost. Non coherent, frothing at the mouth, literally eyes rolling about in the back of the head. And this new strain, you could literally be talking to somebody, and you turn around and theyre just literally gone. We seek spice addiction on a daily basis. And as i say, this one thats around at the minute, is really, really worrying. Back on the streets we spoke to one man who didnt want his face to be shown. But he told us that after taking a drag on what he thought was an ordinary roll up, he completely lost control for several hours. The tobacco had been mixed with an ultra strong strain of spice. Just one pull. One pull . One pull, yeah. Dr Oliver Sutcliffe of Manchester Metropolitan University conducts tests on samples of spice for the police. Spice samples vary widely in their potency. But the most recent generation is the strongest theyve encountered. They are significantly more potent than the other previous generations that have been seen. He told us that unlike before the ban, when spice was sold in packaging with information about a given strain, there is almost no way to tell in advance how strong spice sold on the streets might be. Its almost like putting a loaded gun to your head, playing russian roulette. Almost everybody we spoke to said they knew of someone who had been hospitalised or died from using spies. From using spice. And evidence of this drug leaving ruined lives in its wake is all too abundant here. With strains like the ones now said to be at large in manchester, lets talk about this more now with peter morgan, who works with young Homeless People in manchester and recently wrote his first novel, spice boys, about spice users in the city. Jeremy sare is from the alcohol and drugs Prevention Charity, mentor. And joining us from cannock is lee harris, whos taken spice when he was homeless. Thank you very much. Peter, do you agree that banning the drug has made it worse for some people, because it puts it into the hands of the dealers and without packaging, users have no idea how strong the strain is theyre have no idea how strong the strain is they re taking . Have no idea how strong the strain is theyre taking . Yes, i agree because it makes it more accessible. Ie the person pedalling it will bring it to you first thing in the morning and then you have your spice. You can go begging, get the money, pay him off and he will lay you back on. It is easily accessible. The home Office Tell Us today that the ban on these su bsta nces today that the ban on these substances has given the police the power to arrest hundreds of dealers, some of whom are behind bars with more cases progressing through the courts, the use of psycho active su bsta nces courts, the use of psycho active substances has fallen significantly they say since the government outlawed legal highs in 2016. The first offenders have been convicted, over 300 retailers have closed down and stopped selling the drugs and they say through our new drugs strategy, we are focussing on education, treatment and support for people who are dependant on drugs including Homeless People. So many more dealers have been arrested since it was banned . Yeah, thats right, but the issue is the number of young people using it is quite low but it doesnt happen in nice affluent areas of the country, its the most socially excluded and entrenched in poverty, there is no pathway for them to go to if they are a crack addict or heroin addict they can go somewhere and get treated but right now its the most honourable in society, the broadest the most honourable in society, the b roa d est of the most honourable in society, the broadest of the poor we could see who are addicted and having this drug pushed on them and we dont know what its even doing to them. We do know some of it, i have an e mailfrom a we do know some of it, i have an e mail from a nurse who does not wish to give their name which is fine, iam wish to give their name which is fine, i am a nurse in the manchester intensive care unit and we are seeing increasing number of patients admitted with horrific injuries after using spice including walking in front of trams and walking off bridges and tall buildings. We also admita lot bridges and tall buildings. We also admit a lot of prisoners and have been told by prison staff its quite common for long term established inmates to test out the strengths of the drug on new, young, impressionable and intimidated prisoners. Some of these young people have been left with like long brain injuries and disabilities. This drug is horrific and more needs to be done to help Vulnerable People. I totally agree with this. One thing we have discovered in our accommodations is young female spice users are no longer getting pregnant while using spice. I have spoken to the mp, we always have a young girl who is pregnant in our accommodation but i have spoken to five different supported accommodations and say show me one young girl who is using spice who is now pregnant . There is no study our money being pumped into this to see if this is coincidence or if it an effect, is it making them infertile temporarily or in the long term . That is something new you have brought to the audience today. Let me bring in lee, you were watching us this morning and you used to use this stuff for a couple of years when it was legal, what do you think about the fact it appears to be getting stronger and the reasons why . I think inevitably it is going to get stronger because instead of us try to sort the problem out in this country we just criminalise everything. So when cannabis was brought down, brought up cannabis was brought down, brought up to class b, all of a sudden people started looking for cheaper alternatives which is when spice we nt alternatives which is when spice went big. As they ban every chemical be used to make spice out of, chemists in china, but the stronger chemical which has not been banned. When you were taking it. When you are taking it, described to our audience what it made you feel . you can imagine, i dont know, ten pints of strong lager. Straightaway. Just within a matter of seconds. All ofa just within a matter of seconds. All of a sudden you are very, very, very out of it. You are busy, feeling sick. Bewildered. Nothing like cannabis. So what was the attraction for you . It was cheaper. The rot cannabis back up to clasp the, rather than decriminalising it and helping people. They brought it up to class b so the cheapest option then was to try spice. Understood, let me bring injeremy from the alcohol and drugs Prevention Charity mentors. The psychoactive substances act, this statement from the home office, more dealers are being arrested but there is a serious problem on the streets of manchester and possibly elsewhere, what is to be done . We had to step back and see the purpose of the psychoactive substances act was to address a wide range of what were known as legal highs, notjust range of what were known as legal highs, not just spice, range of what were known as legal highs, notjust spice, stimulants and hallucinogenic s, a whole range of them and they were available to be purchased on the high street. I think that was the main thrust of the legislation to eradicate that market. Of course the law is quite a blunt instrument and it has left this market which is Vulnerable People suffering very significantly harm. So what now . I think, the nurse said, Vulnerable People need to be helped and i think that is an area where the Home Office Statement is somewhat lacking because the commitment and investment into education and treatment i am afraid is not at a level, certainly we are seeing this as the impact which is the consequence. Dean has detected to say i have a son on spice who came home with wires coming out of his chest after getting out of hospital and then went back out to smoke spice again. It has destroyed his and my life. Are you saying there are broadly speaking fewer people using spice since the ban but those who are being affected are being disproportionately affected . Yeah, its not widespread nationally, it is in certain hotspots. Manchester has the worst, wrexham, bristol, lincoln, these are areas where those communities are suffering and that is where we need much more coordination between services, there is an all Party Parliamentary group and we have a round table where we have the mp for manchester, the councillors and the police and other representatives from different communities about how we can best coordinate the services as they are because enforcement is definitely not the only answer. It cannot be. We have got to be offering a lot more treatment as peter points out, there is not sufficient level of treatment and thatis sufficient level of treatment and that is a view shared by established establishment groups such as the local Government Association and the Advisory Council for the misuse of drugs and they are being particularly critical about cutbacks which are counter productive particularly critical about cutbacks which are counter productive and essentially false economy. Another e mailfrom stephen essentially false economy. Another e mail from stephen saying essentially false economy. Another e mailfrom stephen saying i had to assist the man who in his 30s who was not homeless who had taken spice in london and had to be put in the recovery position. Fortunately an ambulance turned up quickly and cpr was undertaken, he was still alive, just, when we put him in the ambulance. This is quite shocking stuff. Thank you for coming on the programme gentleman. Your views are welcome, particularly if you have a experience, we heard from a nurse and a probation officer this morning and a probation officer this morning and it all feeds into the conversation, thank you. Still to come a body has been found in a garden in Greater Manchester after a woman walked into a Police Station and told officers she had killed and buried a man and number of years ago. We will get the latest from the scene. Next this morning do some of the things we think we know about depression need challenging . Johann hari thinks so. Hes a journalist and author and former columnist for the independent newspaper. He was diagnosed with depression as a teenager and was prescribed anti depressants when he was 18 and continued to take the pills for the next 13 years. Throughout that time he realised that he was still depressed. Hes now written a book called lost connections which explores the causes of depression and anxiety and he argues that instead of trying to mute the symptoms with drugs we need to fundamentally change the way we live our lives to get to deal with the root causes. In 2011 his newspaper career ended after it emerged hed passed off other writers material as his own. If you have experience of depression then please do get in touch to give your view on whatjohann hari talks to us about today. Good morning to you, thank you for coming on the programme. You argue depression can be often a rational reaction to a situation, not always down to a brain malfunction, tell us more and why you have reached that conclusion . I wanted to read the book because i was haunted by mysteries i could not find the a nswer mysteries i could not find the answer to, firstly why was i still depressed . When i was a teenager i had gone to the doctor and said i had gone to the doctor and said i had a feeling like pain was leaking out of me, i could not control it and the doctor told me a story, there is a chemical called serotonin, some people lack it and you are one of them, we will give you are one of them, we will give you these drugs to get your level back and i felt relief and a significant boost when i started taking them. Within a few months the pain started coming back through, i went back and he give me a bigger dose until in the end i was on the maximum dose for 13 years. I ended that was still depressed and i wondered why but the biggest question was why other so many other people like me . One in 11 people in britain are now so distressed they feel the need to drug themselves to get through the day. There are more people who are depressed and anxious who are not doing that. I thought it cannot just be who are not doing that. I thought it cannotjust be something going wrong inside the chemistry of our brains, that seems to be rising. So i interviewed scientists around the world and people with different perspectives and the main thing i learned was the story the doctor told me was not true. Professor its deeply misleading to say low serotonin deeply misleading to say low serotonin causes deeply misleading to say low serotonin causes depression. I found that challenging but there is a better story about oppression waiting for us which is partly that we know all human beings have physical needs. We need food, warmth, clean air, if we are deprived of them we will be in trouble. There is equal evidence we have deep psychological needs, you need to feel you belong and your life has meaning and purpose. You need to feel you have a stable and secure future and in our culture less people are getting those needs met and that is the main, not the only but the main reason we this crisis. So if you are lonely or breed or are in a rubbishjob and feel you are trapped and have no control, it can potentially lead to depression as well as possibly low serotonin and other psychological reasons . It was striking to look at it, if you had a dramatic childhood you are 3100 more likely to become suicidally depressed as an adult. If you are acutely lonely, its a deep cause of depression. We know that. We know that. Dont we . Yes but i think we have a weird disconnect, it is almost the mall, common sense that if your life has gone wrong you will feel unhappy but weve not acted on that. I can give you an example, there was a doctor in london, a wonderful man, he had loads of patients coming to him in his surgery who were really depressed and he talked to them and you think it makes sense you are depressed, you are lonely and isolated and he felt it was an ethnically questionable decision, it is inadequate to the skill of the problem. So he tried something different. One patient was a woman called lisa who had been shut away ina home called lisa who had been shut away in a home for seven years with terrible depression and anxiety and he said terrible depression and anxiety and he said i will keep scribbling in the drugs if you want but i will prescribe you to take part in a group. The one she was assigned to, there was an area of scrubland at there was an area of scrubland at the back of the surgery and they said this group of people will you meet a couple times a week and turn it into something beautiful. They kept going and as they got their fingers into the dark and had a place to meet to talk to each other that was not talking about how bad the felt and as lisa puts it, as the garden can ban to bloom we began to bloom. There was similar thing in norway that showed programmes like this work as effective. Gardening programmes for depressed and anxious people. It goes with what you said, it dealt with the reason why they we re it dealt with the reason why they were depressed and anxious in the first place. You compare the publication of drug trials to taking a selfie, explain that analogy . was shocking in terms of how we have oversold antidepressants. They have a real role and i dont want to take anything away from anyone. But we all know if you take selfie is at least with me, you take 40 and throw away the first 39 were you have a double chin or whatever and the 40th is the one which becomes your profile picture. Turned out with the drug trials a similar thing happens. When they were researching how much help people get from antidepressants the Drug Companies would commission loads of trials, the equivalent of the 40 selfie s and most of them we re the 40 selfie s and most of them were never published, the ones which showed low or mixed results were never published, the only published the ones which looked good. 247 people given the drug and only 27 peoples results were published and those were the people for whom it worked. It exaggerates the number of people, between, ithought worked. It exaggerates the number of people, between, i thought i was a freak for being on antidepressants and still feeling terrible. But i was normal, between 65 and 80 of people taking antidepressants become depressed again in a year. The information about drug trial results being published came from a professor at harvard. It comes from lots of scientists, it is widely acknowledged across the field. it . The association of the british pharmaceutical industry tell us the code of practice requires drugs are published within 12 months of the first Regulatory Approval for trial completion and the disclosure rate of farmer led potential trials is at a record 93 of new medicines. The regulator. What you are seeing is the opposite of what they are saying. This is what the professors have looked at in detail, the look that, when you apply for a drug to come to market in the us you had to submit it to the federal drug and food agency, you have to submit the equivalent of all yourself these. So he did the first freedom of information request to get all of those so they all have to be, in that case they have to be submitted but they are not made public. That is part of the problem. The other thing which is shocking is you or me, you can do 1000 trials and you only have to do two which show some effect to be able to drink the drug to market and i think people know this problem. The not the case in the United States where most of the drugs originate. The situation in the us which we have studied carefully is they are submitted to the regulator, but not shown to the public. You only have to have two out of thousands which show some effects. You can submit the trials and submit 998 trials and 2 effective ones and you can submit it to the marred debt. Ket. You say in13 years, no it to the marred debt. Ket. You say in 13 years, no doctor, no gp asked you why are you feeling like this . Why are you distressed . Really . No doctor ever asked you . No. That cant be right, can it . It is unacceptable and it happened to a lot of people who are going to their doctors. It is better now because some people are 2 . Cbt. F in with anxiety or depression. This would have been the mid 90s that was going. One thing that helped me change by prospective. A doctor was in cambodia when chemical antidepressants were introduced. The doctors didnt know what they were and they said we dont need them. He thought they were going to talk about a herbal remedy. They said, we will tell you a story. They told him a guy who worked in the rice fields and one day he stood on a land mine and one day he stood on a land mine and had his leg blown off. He went back to work in the field and it was painful. He became depressed and we listened to him and realised how he is in pain and we thought if we buy him a cow and he wont be depressed and they bought him a cow. If you we re and they bought him a cow. If you were taught to think the way that depression is a problem in your brain, that sounds like a joke. You are not broken. You are not a machine with broken parts. You are a human being with unmet needs and you need help to get the needs met. Thats the sustainable path out of depression for most people. Ok. David says, antidepressa nts depression for most people. Ok. David says, antidepressants are not the sole cure of depression. Any gp will tell you that. You have to work at the root of the problem with other tools as well. At the root of the problem with other tools as well. I agree. Jim says, why are you giving airtime to the notorious having failed to make money stealing otherjournalists working he is preying on sick people. What a charlottan. There we re people. What a charlottan. There were two things i did wrong when working at independent. I had took things that they had written or said to other people and presented them as if they were said to me. Online i was spiteful about other people under a pseudonym. When you screw up like that, you should pay a really big price. I did pay a like that, you should pay a really big price. I did paya big price, i resigned from a job i loved and i was shut out for three years and i went away and wrote a book to really demonstrate, i wanted to demonstrate maximum transparency to show i wasnt doing that again. I put all of the audio for everything that was said in the book, people can hear it being said to me, i have done that with the new book as well, but it is understandable, when you screw up, people should hold you accountable, people should hold you accountable, people should hold you accountable, people should continue to say, how do we, why should we listen to you . This is part of the price i pay for it. Do you know why you did what you did . I do. Im reluctant to talk about that in this context because ifi about that in this context because if i start doing that, what and i dont want to do this by myself, it is like saying see it from my point of view and when you screw up and do things that hurt you, you should encourage people to see it from the point of the view of the people you have hurt, the readers of the independent, the people who worked at the independent with me, and the people i was nasty about. So i would rather people had their stories about it and saw it from their point of view and i have thought a lot about the an to your question, but i wont talk about it in that context for this reason. Have you thought about whether there might have been about whether there might have been a link between what you did and your anxiety and depression . a link between what you did and your anxiety and depression . I dont think there is. I think it was my character flaws. I think there is. I think it was my characterflaws. I think think there is. I think it was my character flaws. I think it was things that were wrong with my personality. No, there is a big difference from the things that we are talking about here and that. How do you reflect on that time now . reflect on it a lot in ways that i would rather not talk about because i dont want to sound like people should see it from my point of view. The main thing is demonstrating to people you can see very clearly, you just go to the lost connections. Com and you can see ive not done that again and one thing that was really moving was how many people, you know, even people who were critical of my previous book and the arguments said this is a really transparent and robust book. Ok. Thank you very much. Thanks, victoria. I really enjoyed it. Thank you for coming on the programme. If youre affected by depression and want help of advice you can find details of organisations offering information and support with Mental Health at bbc. Co. Uk actionline, or you can call for free, at any time to hear recorded information on 08000 564 756. Still to come 100 french woman have signed a letter complaining about a new puritanism in the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal. Well get reaction from here and in france. The Army Launches a new Advertising Campaign in an attempt to be more inclusive. But critics say it doesnt target those most likely to sign up. We will show you the new ads and you can tell us if you think they work. Time for the latest news heres reeta. At least 13 people have died in flash floods and mudslides in Southern California. Dramatic footage has emerged showing a family being airlifted to safety from their home in Santa Barbara. Emergency services say hundreds more remain trapped. Witnesses say torrents raged through the streets and boulders the size of cars rolled down the hillsides. Emergency services said they expected the number of deaths to rise. The army is launching a new Recruitment Campaign which emphasises the emotional and physical support given to soldiers. A series of radio and online adverts addresses concerns that potential recruits might have. There has been criticism from some former officers who have accused the army of bowing to Political Correctness. The ministry of defence says its campaign has sparked Significant Interest from people injoining up. Two burmese journalist have been charged in officialth court with breaking myanmars official secrets act. They were handed documents last month. The arrest of the two journalists, who workjournalists, who work for a news agency, has been widely condemned. We can show you some pictures from Southern California now where rescuers are searching for survivors after devastating rains led to the deaths of at least 13 people. Here we can see the san diego coast guard rescuing a family and their pets in Santa Barbara county by helicopter. The area has seen major mudslides following the rain. Witnesses have described boulders the size of small cars rolling down the hillside. And the death toll of 13 is expected to rise. Heres some sport now. Bristol city were two minutes away from holding premier League Leaders Manchester City in the first leg of their League Cup Semi final. The sides were level at 1 1 before Sergio Aguero popped up in stoppage time to give pep guardiolas side a slim advantage going into the second leg at ashton gate in a fortnight. The war of words continues between Antonio Conte and Jose Mourinho. The chelsea boss called mourinhno a little man and says he wont forget this, after the Manchester United manager brought up contes match fixing suspension last weekend. And british number two, Heather Watson is through the last eight at the hobart international. Thats after a straight sets win over australian jamiee fourlis. And thats your sport headlines. A legendary french actor has defended mens right to hit on women without being forced out of theirjobs. Catherine deneuve whos best known for her role as a bored housewife in belle de jour was one of 100 well known french women to sign a letter complaining about a new puritanism in the wake of the Harvey Weinstein scandal. They letter says, rape is a crime, but trying to seduce someone, even persistently or cack handedly, is not nor is men being gentlemanly a chauvanist attack. Men have been punished summarily, forced out of theirjobs when all they did was touch someones knee or try to steal a kiss. The authors argued that there was a new puritanism afoot in the world. They said that while it was legitimate and necessary to speak out against the abuse of power by some men, the constant denunciations have spiralled out of control. According to the writers, this is creating a public mood in which women are seen as powerless, as perpetual victims. As women we do not recognise ourselves in this feminism, which beyond denouncing the abuse of power, takes on a hatred of men and of sexuality. Men had been dragged through the mud, they argued, for talking about intimate subjects during professional dinners or for sending sexually charged messages to women who did not return their attentions. The letter attacked feminist social media campaigns like metoo and its french equivalent. For unleashing this puritanical wave of purification. It claimed that legitimate protest against the Sexual Violence that women are subject to, particularly in their professional lives, had turned into a witch hunt. What began as freeing women up to speak has today turned into the opposite, we intimidate people into speaking correctly, shout down those who dont fall into line, and those women who refused to bend to the new are regarded as complicit and traitors. The signatories, who included a porn star turned agony aunt, claimed they were defending sexual freedom for which the liberty to seduce and importune was essential. With me in the studio is charlie cuff, shes a writer and campaigner from the second source, a group of women journalists working to end Sexual Harassment in the media. She has faced unwanted sexual advances. Rosie millard is a feminist and campaigner. And in our leeds studio, aisha ali khan, writer and blogger, who was subjected to Sexual Harassment whilst working as a parliamentary aide. Hello. Good morning. How do you respond to the letter . Well, i think that obviously, you know, tapping someone on the knee or flirting gently or smiling, you know, sexual attraction will happen in the workplace. The point about the letter is. Even that behaviour is not allowed anymore and thats what they are protesting against . think thats ridiculous. The thing is, it is all very well for Catherine Deneuve to say this, but Catherine Deneuve to say this, but Catherine Deneuve to say this, but Catherine Deneuve is a powerful woman. She is a global icon and you know, it is easy for her to say treat me with respect, and also you know, you can flirt with me and if you are not allowed to, that makes me feel like a victim, like a child, dont treat me like there, i am a woman of my, i can tell someone to back off. There are 99 other women who signed this letter. They are all in positions of power like Catherine Deneuve. They seem to be, you know, they seem to be prominent people albeit porn star, they seem to be women who have perhaps achieved something in the workplace otherwise they wouldnt be silgttries to the letter. One can assume they are people signatories to the letter. One can assume they have achieved confidence and that is not what the me too thing is about. It is about women in equal positions who feel they have got to go along with it because otherwise they may lose out in theirjobs or their careers. Charlie, are there any points you agree with in the letter . There is not, no. Ithink, iwouldjust agree with in the letter . There is not, no. I think, i would just like to reiterate what you are saying. This is influential women who do not reflect, like their views do not reflect, like their views do not reflect the view of the masses who we re pa rt of reflect the view of the masses who were part of the me too movement. is okfor were part of the me too movement. is ok for them to make the points, is ok for them to make the points, is it they can make it. Their reputation is strong. There is some women in france speaking up against them. There are people like myself and rosie who are taking issue with the letter. It is a distraction essentially quoting oprah, what we need to be foe us on right now are the women mos names we dont know. We need to be getting to know the names of women who are working in industries that arent prominent and face Sexual Harassment. I think it is harassing to be co nsta ntly i think it is harassing to be constantly chatted i think it is harassing to be co nsta ntly chatted u p i think it is harassing to be constantly chatted up and sent u nwa nted constantly chatted up and sent unwanted messages, it is wrong. They disagree. However clumsily a man trying to seduce a woman is not a crime. It is not a crime but its not nice and you should not have to put up with it. This letter is quite frankly bonkers. I think what it does is a massive disservice to men as well. I know lots of men, french men, british men, men from all over the world and to say men should be allowed to give into their sexual urges despite the fact they could be wild and aggressive is absolutely wrong. It takes away from the fact that women do not know or cannot differentiate the difference between flirting and Sexual Harassment. I think the letter if it had come at any other time would have been laughed out, described as bonkers. But because its come out at this crucial time where we have a movement going on, crucial time where we have a movement going on, the million womens march all over the world, and another march coming up in a few weeks on the 21st ofjanuary, it is a crucial time for women who have suffered to come forward. a crucial time for women who have suffered to come forward. I will pourjunior because i want to introduce julia who signed pourjunior because i want to introducejulia who signed this letter, i dont know if you heard our last guest say this letter is bonkers . I do not understand, bonkers . I do not understand, bonkers . Mad, crazy, what are you doing . By signing that letter . Im not crazy at all. I am really, i have sense, i reflect a lot to sign a letter because i thought its important to know that women, writers, womenjournalists, that its not only one way to think. All that campaigns, who consider that women are victims, that is real, that we cannot accept Sexual Harassment, must be punished, of course. Harassment, must be punished, of course. I agree with that. But there is not only one way to think, that women are eternal victims. No. Women can fight back and i want to learn when women are addressed, they can fight back, we can learn that. Also that women and men can make, seduce and make mistakes in seduction. There are two women sitting next to me in the studio in london, there was a sharp intake of breath as you said that last bit. think this is part of the French National character, that you love being a sexy nation and i think your use of the word puritanical is quite interesting, its like, yeah, in france we wear silk stockings and chanel number five and sexuality is very important in the french cultural message. I think this is a defence of france against a kind of, you know, the puritanical and the not interested in having fun countries like the uk and america. I think its, you know, possibly the campaign, like all campaigns, it has to gain enormous amount of ground before it levels out and maybe there are some men who have been wrongly chastised, i doubt it. I dont think it makes women feel like victims or babies, i think it makes women feel more powerful. Yeah, i am not, i dont defend that the french idea of sexiness, i defend the human beings andi sexiness, i defend the human beings and i think in the uk, in america, in algeria, when i came back, in france, in belgium, we are all the same, we want peace. I am a feminist if feminism is a quality between men and women. I think that is possible. Having 100 Text Messages on your phone from someone sexually pursuing new is not equality, it is here asked and and annoying you, its not equal. Sexual harassment can be, does exist, that, i am not and i agree with that. We can say, that is normal, yeah, men are men, no. I will see no. But there is also a lot of frustration in the world, in the mens world and in the world in general. It is frustration, it provokes harassment i think, and we can, we Must Find Solutions and i think this campaign will make that subject. I can see in leeds, disagreement. I think what the letter does is ignore the notion of consent. So what if somebody fancies you, does that person have the right to pursue you relentlessly as far as sending Text Messages, forming and stalking . If you do not give to those advances your career could be on the line. This is not fair to women. This is a response to the movement, all of these women coming forward and talking about incidents which happening previously, what we are actually ignoring is the fact that women, who have actually suffered Sexual Harassment and assault and so on and who have not been able to come forward and not taken been able to come forward and not ta ken part been able to come forward and not taken part in the campaign, these are women who will never be able to articulate and express their frustration at what happens to them. Instead of concentrated on what the men want, because we have to understand that men, they are able to exercise self control especially with their sexual orgies, why are we taking that away from men . Why are we not seen to men, control yourselves if a woman is not interested she is not interested, move on and leave her alone. This letter giving a green light notjust of these men who want to engage in unwanted Sexual Harassment but also to victims. It is giving them the notion that they cannot come forward , notion that they cannot come forward, that if they do come forward, that if they do come forward they will be labelled as attention seeking or awkward or a prude. I think that is the mentality we need to tackle. This letter will cause more damage than it benefits. I would like to hear what men think of this letter who are watching right now. Charlie, what do you think, that this letter will cause a lot of damage . I totally agree and i think its really bizarre we are in a place where are so many women feel they need to the defence of men. That is not what we need right now. We need the conversation to keep happening around metoo and not get into protecting people who have caused so much harm over the centuries. One saying there is a massive difference between flirting, chatting someone up and harassment and it happens to women and men, people of all sexes need to be taught what is too far because a lot of people do not understand. Another one saying catherine is spot on, this will upset pc feminists, ps please stop interrupting your guests when you disagree with them, that pa rt when you disagree with them, that part is firmly and one seeing this letter is bonkers but feminists career shaming pawn actors is also pretty wea k career shaming pawn actors is also pretty weak stuff, i dont know if thatis pretty weak stuff, i dont know if that is for you. Juliet is already an number of feminists, members of the metoo campaigner who have not got involved in the campaign who are quite cross that there appears to be a divide between women, what do you say, because of your letter, what do you say . That is sad. Really, i am not, that is not what i am saying, the woman before said you say that, iam not the woman before said you say that, i am not saying that. Poor men and that women are victims. Of course i am on the way of the women and of the man and victims, its important, so the man and victims, its important, so important that she said that it, thats a crime, where it is a crime, Sexual Harassment is a crime, harassment is a crime. We must finish. I say that to women, to men. To all the countries. Its all the same. Ok. Im going to bring in another signatory if i may, Sexual Harassment in this country is not a crime by the way. A frenchjealous and columnist for the daily and sunday telegraph, journalist and columnist. You are a signatory is that right . Yes. Why did you sign it . I signed it because i read the letter, it was written by friends of mine and it starts by saying rape is a crime, Sexual Harassment in the workplace is crying, it goes on and saying what started as a useful movement denouncing things which we re movement denouncing things which were a problem has morphed into a kind of online lynching of people who cannot defend themselves and who lose theirjobs, who lose their livelihoods, who sometimes are forced to literally disappear and there is a feeling that what was sanitary has turned into a virtue signalling one minute hate. sanitary has turned into a virtue signalling oneminute hate. I would like charlie and rosy to answer that point, there are some men accused of Sexual Harassment on social media who have lost theirjobs. There has been no process, no Legal Process or criminal process or Human Resources process , criminal process or Human Resources process, you are simply told you are not working for us because there has been a deluge of messages on social media, how do you respond . been a deluge of messages on social media, how do you respond . I think its important for processes to be in place but i am pretty much always going to try and believe women when they come forward and tell me something bad has happened to them. I havent come across any instances that i have personally found to be problematic in terms of men losing theirjobs but i sure there are a few out there, that have been i dont know, carried out in ways that other people would find to be an issue. I suppose, we other people would find to be an issue. Isuppose, we are other people would find to be an issue. I suppose, we are still in a place where a lot of people are not able to even take their accusations to trial and i just think we should believe women when they say they feel uncomfortable and support them in any which way we can. Ok. Im going to leave it there, thank you very much to all of you for coming on the programme. Lets go to stockport now where police say theyve found a body in a garden, after a woman told them shed killed a man and buried him there a number of years ago. Judith moritz is there for us. Sunday afternoon this woman went into a Police Station not far from here and told police she had allegedly killed a man and they should search this property, the search is going on here over the last couple of days, last night greater Manchester Police said they found human remains which have been taken away for analysis. We do not know the cause of death but they have arrested a woman who is 63 yea rs old have arrested a woman who is 63 years old on suspicion of murder. They are going around the area asking neighbours if they have any information about the man who used to live here 10 15 years ago by the name of kenneth combs. That is all we have at the moment but more as we get it through the day. On the programme tomorrow we speak to parents whore battling to keep their seriously ill 19 month old son alive against the hospitals advice. Through these western areas, particularly north west england, the west midlands, central areas of england. Quite a tricky morning i suspect for some if you are commuting first thing on thursday morning with the fog, it will linger on for much of the morning, similar to fog patches lingering, cloudy skies towards eastern areas, Northern Ireland, western areas, sunnier spells developing by thursday afternoon, temperatures down a little bit on today. Goodbye. This is bbc news and these are the top stories developing at 11. Huge mudslides and flooding hit california, killing 13 people and destroying homes. From rescue teams use helicopters and search dogs to pull stranded local residents to safety. I looked all the veranda trees were coming down and we ran into the house and right then the borders came into the house. Uk manufacturing output has reached its highest level in ten years helped by making Renewable Energy products. Thousands of tourists are still stranded after heavy snow cuts off towns and villages in the alps. The Army Launches a new Advertising Campaign focusing on the emotional and physical support given to soldiers. Former officers accuse the military of going soft