Israels Prime MinisterBenyamin Netanyahu took great satisfaction from president trumps decision to ignore longstanding International Convention and recognisejerusalem as israels capital, but that diplomatic boost cant disguise mr netanyahus vulnerability at home. Hes the target of a long Running Police anti corru ption investigation and may soon face charges. An interesting moment, then, for my guest today, cabinet minister naftali bennett, to declare that he wants to be israels next Prime Minister. Is a changing of the guard in the offing . Naftali bennett, in jerusalem, welcome to hardtalk. Great to be here, stephen. Lets start with politics and personal ambition. It was a very interesting moment for you to decide to reveal to the israeli public that you want to be israels next Prime Minister. It was hardly helpful to mr netanyahu, was it . Well, actually, what i said was only after the netanyahu era. I support the Prime Minister netanyahus government, im part of his government. I think hes doing a good job. And i dont think that we need to hasten his departure from the israeli leadership. I think when things are looking good, we need to keep it that way. But what i did say is that after the netanyahu era, yes, i tend to become Prime Minister. Thats a very polite and tactful answer, but lets be real about politics. Mr netanyahu is in a big mess right now. Hes just had his seventh interview with antifraud investigators, under caution. He may well be facing charges on two different matters of alleged scandal in the next few weeks. Your timing was quite deliberate, wasnt it . You, it seems, believe the netanyahu era, as you put it, may well be coming to an end pretty soon . No, i dont answer. No, i dont think so. I know mr netanyahu very well, for over 12 years now. He has got strengths, hes got weaknesses, but hes not corrupt. He cares profoundly about israel, works very hard for israel, and while we have our disagreements, i think the Prime Minister is doing a good job. He cares about israel and im here to support him. It is not supportive, though, is it, announcing you want to be israels next Prime Minister, when you know tens of thousands of israelis are taking to the streets every saturday night in tel aviv, demanding that he go. Youre simply adding two sm is that an end is coming quite soon for mr netanyahu. No, i dont think so. And i think tens of thousands is a bit inflated. I think the overwhelming majority of those demonstrators are from the left and radical left side of the political map. Its legitimate. Were a free nation. You can demonstrate. But i dont think its really about corruption. I think its about politics and they want to replace a good, strong, right wing government with a left wing government, which, again, its legitimate but its not about corruption. I dont buy that. Hang on, unless youre saying the Israeli Police and, in particular, their crack Antifraud Division are somehow political, then that statement just doesnt hold water, because we know the Prime Minister is suspected of, by this department, fraud, breach of trust, and accepting bribes. Yeah, but we are only a phase of investigation, and we know that about 80 of investigations end up without any charges being pressed, and certainly without conviction, so we are long, long away from any sort of thing like that. I think would be wrong to accuse the Prime Minister of charges that have not even been sent to him. Were only at the investigation stage, its a very early stage, and i hope for the state of israel, and for Prime Minister netanyahu, for that matter, that it ends up as nothing. For that matter, that it ends up with nothing. Well, thats your hope. Let me quote a recent channel ten news report based on leaks from inside the investigation, saying that police are expected to sum up their case in two weeks and to recommend that netanyahu be indicted in both cases. Now, if he is indicted, do you believe he has to quit . Well, israel is a country with a rule of law, and we dont base our decisions on police recommendation. There is a legal structure, where the department ofjustice needs to press charges against Prime Minister netanyahu and were far away from that. I dont think that the fact that the police makes a recommendation should affect anyone. If indeed charges are pressed, thats a point where we have to look at things and make decisions. What do you mean, you will have to look at things and make decisions . Are you saying that, if neta nyahus charge, it is not tenable for him to be pm . No, i am not saying that, i am saying precisely what i said. We will have to make decisions based on information, then, how serious are the allegations. What is the situation in israel . You know, we are not in sweden, we are in israel, surrounded by hezbollah, daesh, hamas, syria, iran. We cant afford to have that luxury of replacing Prime Ministers unless its really, truly necessary. And i think we are far, far away from that. I think all the people who are praying for that to happen should fold their prayer books and wait, because its not happening any time soon. Yes, but your contention that these people, who are beginning to doubt that netanyahu can carry on, your contention theyre all leftists and ideological opponents of mr netanyahu and his government, that is simply not true, is it . Let me quote you nadav haetzni, you probably know him well, right wing attorney, commentator, publicist. He said the other day netanyahus behaviour is harming his camp. Every day now there is a bad smell coming from his office. It hurts the right. You know, we dont operate based on smells. We operate based on facts and a legal system. A good, solid legal system. Right now, all we have is investigations only. The haste to replace netanyahu, i think, comes not so much from the deep desire to clean up corruption, unfortunately, weve had corruption for the past 20 years. Every Prime Minister was investigated. We had ehud barak, ariel sharon, and olmert, and now netanyahu again. Most cases do not end up in court. And i hope this will be the case. I think that ultimately this will be the case here. Sorry to disappoint you. Well, youre not disappointing me. Im just wondering if youre going to be disappointed. The bottom line is this you say you want to lead the right, presumably, if you believe netanyahus era is coming to an end sometime soon, you want to take the right into the next election. You do not want the israeli right to be tainted by sleaze. And right now, and again im going to quote are you somebody widely respected on the nationalist right, rabbi yuval cherlow, he went to the last big tel aviv street demo, asking for netanyahu to resign, and he said that the right should not force people to choose between their political point of view and backing a government that is leading a campaign against investigators and the free press. In the end, he says, people will choose their ethics and integrity over their political affiliation. That could be a big problem for you. No, i agree that certainly this isnt helpful for the right wing in it israel. I get that. But, having said that, i would not take figleaf or so and consider that the whole right wing is now moving. We are against corruption. I will not take even a small rebate at a hotel. You know, i dont want any presents or gifts from anyone and that has been the way i have operated. Yes, but, with respect, a lot of politicians say that and then it turns out that frankly that integrity is not as unimpeachable as they claimed in the campaign. Perhaps. Perhaps i am fortunate to have sold two companies for a quarter of a billion dollars before entering politics, so i dont need any money and no one can come and bribe me, because i am self sufficient. Whatever. The bottom line is that i think we have a very good, solid government, growing economy, strengthening of our international relations. We do not want to give all this up and drag the country to unnecessary elections, and i think i stand strongly behind Prime Minister netanyahu. We need this government to continue. All right, well, lets talk about diplomacy and regional politics, then, assuming netanyahu does stay in power for a deal longer. Are you sure that the israeli joy that we heard from the mouth of mr netanyahu and indeed from you yourself, the joy over Donald Trumps jerusalem decision, are you sure it is not very premature and perhaps deeply misguided . Because, while you have won a victory you have got what you wanted from mr trump, it may well lead to very grave consequences, both in terms of instability with your relationship with palestine, and much more regional instability as well . No, thats nonsense. Instability in the middle east has nothing to do withjerusalem, or israel, for that matter. The instability, the source is internal arab conflict between the sunnis, the shiites, between iran, isis. Israel, if anything, is a source of stability, a pillar of stability in this very tumultuous region, and will remain so. So this was a very good move from the United States of america to recognise jerusalem as our capital. I expect that the rest of the world will follow suit if not in seven days, seven months or seven years. We have patience. Weve got 3,800 years worth of patience, well be able to wait another year few more years. The decision made by mr trump merely emphasises just how strong the consensus internationally is againstjerusalem being recognised as israels capital right now. I can quote to you, i dont have time to do it all, i can quote pope francis, i could quote to you the un secretary general, the leaders of germany, france, the uk, the eus foreign minister. All of these voices have been raised since Donald Trumps decision, making it clear that they think he is wrong. Let me be clear, president trumps recognition and the United States recognition of jerusalem as our capital, that is not the source ofjerusalem being our capital. That is a given. Jerusalem is thejewish capital much more i would say than london is for british or paris is for french. Its been that way long before britain or france even came into existence. So we dont need to prove to anyone that our capital is jerusalem. You know that, and everyone in the world knows that. Yeah, listen, iam not in the business of disputing that your knessets in jerusalem, your Prime Ministers office is in jerusalem, many of your ministerial offices are injerusalem. Of course that is a fact. What is also a fact is that the International Community, bar donald trump, insofar as we take this decision seriously, the International Community still sees the whole issue ofjerusalems future, and sovereignty, to be discussed as part of a peace settlement between you and the palestinians. I get it, but theyre wrong. And no settlement, no peace settlement, can be predicated on dividing up jerusalem. There will never be peace based on a divided jerusalem. In fact, the word jerusalem in hebrew means whole. You cannot divide jerusalem and expect good things to happen. Sojerusalem will remain unified under israeli sovereignty forever. That is a fact. Crosstalk. Jerusalem isnt unified. When you said recently, in saluting the donald trump decision, you said for the past 25 years we have been failing peace, precisely because it has been predicated on putting fences in the heart ofjerusalem and now thats not going to happen and we can do peace. You are ignoring the reality that actually there is wall, a fence, call it what you will, that runs through jerusalem, built by your government, because you know, de facto, jerusalem is still divided and that a quarter of a million arabs live in occupied eastjerusalem, and that they still insist East Jerusalem will one day be their eternal capital. Well, youve got your facts wrong. I happen to work injerusalem every day and i drive through the old city. Theres no wall between west and eastjerusalem. There is no west and eastjerusalem. Therejust isjerusalem. I can get out of this studio, get in a car, and drive directly to the western wall or temple mount, there is no fence or anything. Well, hang on a minute, i did not couch my question in terms of the old city. You know, as well as i do, there are points injerusalem where you can go up to a great big wall. On one side is thejewish residential area, on the other side is the arab residential area. And if you dont call it a wall, you can call it a fence, call it what you like, butjerusalem still has a divide. That is the perimeter ofjerusalem, but that is not really the main issue. The main issue is holy basin on mount scopus, mount olives, temple mount. If we come to an agreement and get the International Consensus that it belongs to israel, there is no problem, even without that consensus it belongs to israel. The big debate in the past was precisely regarding the holy base. I am happy we put that to rest. You can choose to look at it that way, the 250,000 or more arabs refuse to agree with what you think. It is interesting to me that you want to go much further, it seems, according to the greater jerusalem legislation that you and others are pushing in the israeli knesset, it seems you want to transfer approximately 120,000 palestinians who are currently regarded as legal residents of eastjerusalem, you want to push them outside of the city by redefining jerusalems boundaries. Do you think that will be remotely acceptable to the International Community . We are talking about zoning, i am not quite sure what you are referring to. We are talking about municipal zoning. It is a question of what you define asjerusalem. As the municipal boundaries, in a sence, what we are saying that in a sense is thatjerusalem isjerusalem and the outskirts are suburbs ofjerusalem and they should get Better Service but that is open for debate, i wont say that i am fanatic about that particular bill. We will learn it and make decisions based on it. So you are backing off that idea, are you . For arab people who currently who have eastjerusalem residency and will be taken to satellite suburbs outside ofjerusalem, this is a fundamentally important matter. Actually, for them it would be a huge benefit because finally they would get reasonable and good services, better than they get today. It is a matter of municipal zoning, a pretty boring topic if you want to talk about it i am willing to go on and on and explain the benefits of that move. We are still learning it at a government level and will make the right and responsible decision here. Ijust wonder going back to donald trump and your pleasure at his decision, whether you are worried that the knock on effect is that it will drive a wedge between you and for example, saudi arabia and some of the more quote unquote moderate sunni nations in the arab world, to who you have been reacing out, suggesting that could be a de Facto Alliance against iran. But now you have saudis amongst others saying that this decision is absolutely unacceptable and it is now at the front and centre of their regional policy. Not at all, it is lipservice and they have to say that. But really, the palestinian issue is a fake issue, just like the notion of a palestinian state is a fake state. It is not a massive and central issue in the international and regional discourse, what everybody cares about is how to block and check iran from growing into shiite empire from tehran to the middle east. That is what everybody is thinking about. Nobody is talking about the palestinians except for studios in london. It is really not a mainstream issue. Luckily this broadcast will be seen by arabs all over the middle east and the wider muslim community, so when the saudis said after trumps decision, trumps move constitutes a flagrant provocation for muslims all over the world, you are saying it is fake, dont mean it, it isjust a charade. Is that what you are saying . If they care so much, jordan occupied jerusalem for 19 years, why didnt they give it to the palestinians . You expect me to provide answers . The answers are coming from you and your government. If they care so much about the palestinians then i would have expected the arabs to give it to their brethren, in fact, no one in the arab world accepted the notion of a palestinian nation. They wouldnt grant them a state. We have granted them a state in gaza, they turned it into afghanistan, in the heart of israel. They have autonomy, they govern themselves, they are content with that and that is the way it will remain for the foreseeable future. Rather than ask me questions, it seems you need to face questions from the israeli public. You are telling the public you want to be their next minister but if you are also telling the israeli public, as indeed israels military chiefs appear to be telling them recently in an interview in a saudi newspaper, in which he was reaching out and saying there may even be intelligence sharing with saudi arabia to confront iran, it seems to me you answer the basic question, is revising thejerusalem issue and telling the saudis that they are simply fake and conducting a charade, is that going to help you build an alliance with saudi arabia over iran . What helps us build alliances with nations is theirfearfrom iran taking them over. That is the big fear and the big monster in the room and Everybody Knows that israel is the player, is the strongest player in the region, that they need israel to stop iran from its expansion. I am not talking about saudi arabia, i am talking about everyone. In fact, the whole west knows it, it knows Something Else that we are the ones blocking radical islam from flowing into europe. It is because of us that rivers of terror are not flowing into europe, take a map, put a line between iran and radical islam and europe, you will see israel blocking that because we are the forefront against terror. If we were not here you would have rivers of terror flood france and london and all around. I would expect that europe would back us in our battle against terror. I wonder whether you might be misreading europe because i see one of your ministerial colleagues, the intelligence minister said the other day that israel is prepared to bomb lebanon to the stone age in its pursuit of hezbollah. Do you think that sort of language makes you friends in europe . I assume what he was referring to is that if lebanon shoots thousands of rockets on israel, clearly we will retaliate. The way to buy friends in this cruel world is to be strong. Being nice doesnt get you to set the, we were nice 75 years ago but we were butchered. We will not go down that path again. We need to be strong, we are a vibrant democracy and whether europe likes us or not, that is europes business. We are not going to be the conscience cleansing entity for europe. We have got a country to run and we need to be strong here and we will remain strong. As a Senior Member in the government, a member of netanyahus security cabinet, a man who wants to do next Prime Minister of israel, you are suggesting to me that you, as a leading Israeli Voice would be that it would be sensible, wise, reponsibile for israel to consider bombing lebanon to the stone age as what you see to be the hezbollah threat coming from lebanon. Precisely what you did in dresden in germany. When germany bombed london, you bombed dresden back to the stone age. If lebanon shoots tens of thousands of missiles on my mothers home or where i live, definitely we will retaliate. I think anyone would common sense would do that and we do it it strong. Hopefully we wont reach that because lebanon realises that its not worth their while. I want to be clear. We are not looking for any conflict, we are happy as things the way they are. We are not owing to initiate any conflict. You said not so long ago, my approach is to hold iran itself more and more accountable for its actions. So what are we to expect in the coming weeks, months . Are we to expect a direct military confrontation between israel and iran . No, that is not necessary. What i am saying is that we have a big bully in the region called iran. Its sending tentacles all around us, in gaza through hamas, in lebanon through hezbollah and in syria through its proxies. You know, khamenei is very tough, he is willing to kill others to fight israel. He is willing to shed blood of lebanese and syrians and gazans, everything but iranians. My point is we have to hold them responsible for this ongoing proxy war against israel and we will. We are out of time, i thank you forjoining me on hardtalk from jerusalem. Thank you very much. Hello. 0ur quiet spell of weather continues across many parts of the British Isles at the moment. Thats not to say that its completely dull by any means. A glorious end to the day captured by many weather watchers. Elsewhere, it was one of those. The cloud sat there, so did the fog in some locations. But a sign of a change of the way. Already were seeing the cloud and rain associated with this weather front moving into the north and western parts of scotland. It will continue its journey further south. During the course of the night. First thing on wednesday a variety to temperatures. Where the cloud pops away, two degrees or so to the east, towards the west fully exposed to the moist south westerlies coming in from the atlantic 9 11 degrees. Here we are first thing on wednesday. Hill fog to be had if the cloud is broken overnight. The chance of the odd patch of fog. Bearthat in mind. Enough about some of the cloud across the western facing hills and coasts for there to be the odd piece of drizzle, especially near that weather front. To the north of that, a scattering of showers, not many of them at all. Much of scotland getting away to a dry start. Its here north of the weather front that you get the best chance of seeing meaningful sunshine and eventually that prospect extends into northern ireland. All the while, anywhere near that frontal system youve got the prospect of some hill fog and a bit of rain and drizzle. That goes into the north and west of wales. To the south of it, pretty leaden skies. The odd bit of brightness perhaps. Here we are on thursday. The orientation of the front has just changed somewhat. The westerly portion, having come south, is starting to move back north. The best of the brightness away from that. Where you get the best of the temperatures, the best chance of sunshine. In the south a lot of cloud, hill fog. Not a great deal changes pushing into friday. Weve still got the remnants of a weather front, still clouding things up and producing the odd bit of rain, especially across western and south western parts. So again get away from the remnants of those fronts towards the east and up into the north of scotland, the lowest temperatures again, but at least we get to see a bit of sunshine. Here we are into the weekend before christmas and many will still be stuck with that relatively mild flow coming in from the atlantic. But youll notice come Christmas Eve we are not a million miles away from seeing a dramatic change, with cold and brighter weather coming in. In the run up to christmas generally mild and rather cloudy and the chance of some rain, particularly in the north. Im rico hizon in singapore. This is newsday on the bbc. The headlines the most radical tax overhaul in decades is on course to pass the us Congress Despite a last minute hitch. China accuses donald trump of a cold war mentality after his key note National Security speech. Im Babita Sharma in london. Also in the programme a former colleague of hollywood producer Harvey Weinstein speaks exclusively to the bbc about her experience. You accused him of attempted rape . Yeah, yeah. And he denied it . Yes, he said nothing at all had happened. And dozens of new wildlife species have been found in the mekong delta,