Stories in brussels and strasbourg. On todays program, eu leaders give the green light to move on to phase 2 of the brexit talks. When will the eu and uk start discussing trade and transition period . Former European Parliament president , martin schultz, says that the eu should become a united state of europe by 2025. Is that realistic . Could brexit hasten the process . And, was the doner almost a goner . A vote in the European Parliament almost skewered the humble frozen vertical meat stick, or kebab to you and me. Well chew over the details. So, all that to to come and more in the next half an hour and joining me for all of it is ann mcelvoy from the economist and the daily mails andrew pierce. First though, here is our guide to the latest from europe in just 60 seconds. Theresa may began the week with a brexit spring in her step, following that deal to move talks onto the next stage. But by midweek, was her first defeat in the commons when mps voted to give parliament a legal guarantee of a vote on the final deal struck in brussels. The European Parliament passed a motion of approving a move to phase 2 but not all mps were supportive. Theresa the appeaser has given in on virtually everything. Elsewhere, the new polish Prime Minister has said his dream is to rechristianise the eu, cornerfor a return to proper values in an interview with the catholic tv channel. The European Commission president , john claudejunke is facing an investigation over a case involving an alleged illegal wiretap when he was Prime Minister of luxembourg. And Emmanuel Macron hosted 50 countries and one kid at a Climate Change summit in brussels. A notable absentee was the us president , donald trump but dont worry, Arnold Schwarzenegger was there instead. Now, one of the stories we saw there was about the new polish minister who wants to rechristianise the eu. What do you think about that . I think poland is in the sort of no mates category in europe. It has such a big economy. It has turned inwards, it has problems within its legal system, its politics have become rather hideous and its views of minorities are not good. I am just going to say that it is funny that we are nervous when we had this argument about this when germany opposed turkish entry. It is an in fairness to poland clause. Angela merkel had a strong sort of christian identity and you didnt have to be christian to go to church but there was a christian underpinning to the idea of the eu which historically was true. That is one of the reasons why she kept the germans, austrians and others kept the turks out. It is interesting that has come back and it does not feel like it is the right language to be talking about the eu. Do you agree . As ann said, it seems a far cry from the days when we were talking about accession for turkey. Obviously that became an issue during the Eu Referendum and now we have a new Prime Minister in poland saying that they want the European Union to return to its traditionalchristian routes. As a good Roman Catholic boy i ought to welcome this but i am alarmed because the politics in poland have turned very far to the right and i think it has got an unhealthy undertone, it sounds like it could be a racist undertone so i would be quite concerned. Now in the last hour, European Union leaders have allowed brexit talks to progress to the next phase. Talks have moved into the uks eventual relationship with the eu. It is up for discussion, including trade, transition, security, justice and the list goes on. The bbcs adam fleming caught up with negotiator Michel Garnier after the news broke. Are you happy . It is a big achievement. You going to get new guidelines . Are looking forward to that . When do you think we will have the transition period sorted and ready . There will be a transition beginning next year. When will we know . Will we know by march when it is . And, joining me now to discuss all of this is the mep, seb dance, the leader of labour in the European Parliament. He is here in the studio and the conservative leader in the European Parliament, Ashley Fox Mep joins me from bristol. Ashley fox, first of all what do you want to see in terms of britains position and status within the eu during the Implementation Phase . Well, we want a deep and special partnership with the European Union. During that transition period, i think we want to maintain equivalence with the Customs Union, equivalence with the Single Market, so that during that 2 year period, firms do not need to adjust their rules again. Does that mean still taking rules from the European Union court ofjustice and freedom of movement . I think that that is something to be negotiated. And what is your view . It is something to be negotiated. I would expect freedom of movement to continue from the 2 years after we leave to the end of the transition period. Seb says that needs to be negotiated, but formalising the transition period and the status of britain will be part of that. It also requires the approval of the European Parliament. What is the mood in brussels and strasbourg from european mps . I suppose the mood is one of caution, a slight air of relief that we have managed to get some progress now obviously because. Yes. There was a stage towards the end of last week where there were really panic stations. It looked bad. So, there is a sense of progress but ultimately the government has caved in on so much that i think the expectation is effectively that the transition period will be another example of that. The only difference is that we would be able to make any rules, we willjust be applying them. What ways have the government caved in . Well, if you look at this one deal, alignment, is the post transition stage. That means that the Customs Union, and the Single Market. Forget regulatory alignment in the areas covered by the good friday agreement. You must accept of the Customs Union. We will not have a say in those rules. Do you accept that . That there is possibility that britain remains in the Customs Union beyond transition for many years . No, i think seb dance is talking nonsense. We will leave the Customs Union and we will leave the Single Market and we will have a separate agreement between the United Kingdom and the eu and it is interesting that the italian Prime Minister gentiloni has already said it would need a tailor made solution for the United Kingdom. I have to say it must be really difficult to be a labour mep at the moment because you have to be permanently miserable, top down. Not miserable. Mrs may has done really well and she is a formidable politician. I would like to know what magical way of squaring this circle you have come up with because that is what the text says. Unless you can come up with a way of achieving full alignment through some other means that the Customs Union and the Single Market, and incidentally of had 18 months to come up with this magic solution and nobody has. Im not remotely miserable. I am fascinated at how this magic trick is going to be performed. What is your response . Seb had not read read the agreement because what it says is, we will maintain alignment for those areas where there is north south cooperation. Look at the 12 areas. Some are fairly minor like waterways and tourism, the two big ones are agriculture and energy. There is already a Single Energy market and this will not change so that challenges related to agriculture. We absolutely will not be staying in the Customs Union. Isnt the truth that labour wants to remain in all but name within the Single Market and the Customs Union and actually you welcome the debate around this issue of full alignment regarding the border between ireland and Northern Ireland . This is labours gameplan. Not to recognise the referendum outcome. Say that all you like but i want to stay in the European Union. I will not make any bones about that. If they decide that they get at the end of this process is and what they voted for in the 23 june, it is a reasonable case to say, is this what you want to do . It is not up to me, it is up to me to make the case. Is that not the strategy . Labours strategy is to minimise the damage of what brexit will do, to take a completely different approach to what the tories are doing which is pursue, at all costs, against the principles they set, a hard brexit. That is not in the countrys interest. It is a difficulty. In the transition period you wont be able to strike any Free Trade Agreements with other countries, non eu countries, that is correct, isnt it. I anticipate we will be able to get into trade negotiations but you are correct. Until the transition period is concluded, i would imagine it to be the First Quarter of 2021, the new trade arrangements cannot take effect. Do you know what the governments position will be, in terms of the vision for that trade relationship between britain and the eu . David davies described it as canada plus plus plus. When you look at our Free Trade Agreement you will see that 98 of tariff lines are abolished and set at 0. We see no reason why it cant be 0 and then we want an ambitious Service Chapter on top of that. Isnt that the problem . The deal over services, when you think of what a major part of the british Economy Services actually make up, the canada, and i take your point about plus plus plus plus plus but the deal does not include services. We start with an easier position because we are in regulatory alignment with the eu. Our Financial Services providers have the equivalent regulation to the eu. That is the point. We are coming from a totally different starting point to canada. Therefore, this idea that it is going to be impossible, it might take 80 years is wishful thinking. Eight years. No. That is exactly the point but we have regulatory alignment because of course we are in the eu. Those regulations are decided by the eu. Do we really think that we will be deciding with the european Financial Services regulations will be once we are outside of the institutions that set those . Of course we wont. This is not about taking back control at all. Do you think that the arch brexiteers within the conservative party are going to accept this idea to be part of the European Court ofjustice for quite a few years, to come and we will take is in that sense . The Supreme Court has first podium will decide whether to refer to the European Court ofjustice. For most of them they are unhappy about it but they have accepted it john mcdonald, said the other day, he wants to be in it different Single Market. I think they want to keep us in the Single Market. In which case, there is the point leaving the eu. Some of us do. You say there is no point. What you think the phase one agreement has done in terms of the Customs Union . Ashley fox talks about north south alignment and the dup enjoyed that it was east west. It is a huge chunk of what the brexit people so that we would be doing trade deals on. It is now possible and we will not be deciding the rules. How do you see full alignment, influencing our future relationship . In a nutshell, it will dictate how closely aligned our rules and regulations and standards are to the winds of the eu. I figure it depends. It is a great phrase. It reminds me of variable geometry. It can be made into anything that you want it to be. The position that you are coming from, you say that it makes no difference. If you have full alignment you should not bother but of course you think that because you would not have bothered anyway. Remain have been open about that anyway. With ireland, given the difficulty that ireland presents with the internal border, you have a language which allows people to make deals which is not, at the same time, saying you might as welljust accept Customs Union and the Single Market because you dont have to be very far on the brexit curve to say that these things are not acceptable. I think that you are right. Your colleague on the other side in brussels has a point. You have to come up with instruments which are going to make this at least as less likely to lead to any future problems even if you cannot use it to cut every problem through right now. Do you think the eu blinked in the end, in order to get to the end of phase one . I dont think either side blinked. It is a difficult negotiation. Mrs may showed herself to be a formidable negotiator and we reached an equitable compromise. These are the most difficult negotiations i think that have been undertaken by the United Kingdom since the end of the 2nd world war. Mrs may is doing a good job. You think david davis is a formidable negotiator . Yes i do. I think is doing a good job too. Its a shame that we have opposition and politicians who pretend to support the country. That take delight in every small difficulty. Why vote for the motion to approve progress . Its whether we are opposing it. Why did you meps not vote for it . We voted in favour specifically of the paragraph that called the talks. It was a whole load of nonsense put in by a man trying to impose his agenda on face to the talks. That is not the purpose of the European Parliament. Lets leave it there for the moment. There have always been tensions in the eu between federalists who want integration in the block and those who value Member States sovereignty above all else. Britain traditionally sat in the 2nd camp, but now that we are moving, could plans for european federalism be moving ahead at pace . Today, at the European Council summit, bidders are expected to discuss ways to deepen the eurozone integration. On the table is the possible creation of a budget for the eurozone as well as a finance minister to represent the block. Earlier this week, the European Council adopted the creation of a Permanent Defence and Security Cooperation network known as pesco. 25 eu states have signed the defence pact with only malta, denmark and the United Kingdom choosing not to take part. It will integrate military planning, Weapons Development and operations that will rely on a 5 billion euro defence fund. Last week, the leader of germanys centre left social democrats, or sbd, and former European Parliament president called for the creation of a United States of europe. Shultz told sdp delegates that he wanted eu Member States to sign off on a constitutional treaty, committing them to take steps towards a federal europe. Do you think it will catch on, this idea of a United States of europe . It has always been there in the minds of federalists. It depends on what you call federalists. It has been there. That is in division of europe stretching back over 20 years. I spent time in germany recently, looking at Angela Merkels situation. Martin schultz, sitting there on 20. 5 of the vote, dont forget, he has had a very bad election, he needs to have something that from his perspective is very pro european. Where he has come from, into this part of german politics, he wants to offer something very bold and visionary and i think his view is that you go will tilt for it. You stop saying that you dont want it. That helps you get on with mr macron. You can do something forward. Do you think greater integration is the way that it is heading . I think in many areas, yes. In many areas no. We probably will see the emergence of europe going forward. Do you support the idea . I think inevitably people will go further in some areas. Not as far in others. At the end of the day the European Union its a union of states and it is the Member States themselves that decide how far are comfortable at any given point. Frankly, there will always be federalists and there will be those that prize the sovereignty of Member States above all else and that conflict will always be there, but the buck stops with the Member States. That conflict will always be there. As a result of that conflict then, he actually see it happening in terms of having a budget minister, if you like, and there is already a sort of foreign minister but also that sort of close co operation on defence. In the end, National Values will trump, wont they, for many countries in the eu. I would agree. My concern over this structured defence cooperation is set up as a rival to nato. If it results in the european nationstates spending more on defence, that is to be welcomed. But what we dont want is several more divisions of bureaucrats who dont actually add to defence capability. Doesnt it make sense to have those countries remaining within the eu, coming closer together . For the eurozone, youre probably right. The euro is set up very badly, with economies that werent convergent and too many states, we see many problems. There probably needs to be a greater fiscal capacity for the eurozone. I am delighted that the United Kingdom is not part of that. Would you like to be part of it . If britain were to stay in the eu, would you have been a fan of being part of that closer integration . In defence it makes sense given the level of threat that we have, but weve got to counter this idea that there is somehow undermining nato. Britain and france have done operations under a joint eu flag in fact. We have, that have not undermined our contribution to nato. It has not undermined the security of the North Atlantic Treaty Organisation in any way shape or form. You can have multiple layers of defence without undermining existing layers. Would it be a good thing . No. If this had been around before the referendum, with schultz and other people talking about a United States, the referendum would have been even bigger. People do not like the idea of the United States and brussels taking even more power away from sovereign parliaments. If there a problem with germany, or it seems like a dictat from Martin Schulz in this position. To control everything within the eu. Yes, there is a problem with germany. They run the whole show. What show . That is what it is. That is the fact for germany running the show. Germany is obviously the economic powerhouse. The french end of the Franco German relationship is not at its strongest and now there is a challenge, but this is not the position of Angela Merkel who is likely to see and had the government as we go forward. It is the position of the underbidder. You take offence at this idea that germany runs the show. Absolutely. Germany is the largest economy, incidentally had we stayed in the eu, we were on course to be the biggest economy in the eu. And britain could have run the show but well never know. The idea that the germany runs the show. Look through german eyes. Here we have the biggest military power in the European Union leaving. At a time we have threats from russia, at a time when we have less than concrete assurances from a good allies in the United States and president trump. There is a lot of nervousness around. We will continue to. To have a european layer of integration makes sense. In the run up to the referendum, David Cameron spent a lot of time trying to get concessions from the eu and spent most of his time talking to mrs merkel because that is where it is. And with that well have a goodbye to our guests. Are doners almost goners . A vote in the European Parliament seeking to ban phosphates from frozen from the meat fell short. There were 3 votes and the british meps did their bit to save the frozen vertical meat spit, or kebabs as they are known by us. Instead of saying the eu is banning kebabs, that is not right. The media and companies should be asking the commission why the commission is making food less healthy and worse because that is ultimately what the whole story is about. The greens and social democrats are simply spreading panic. The reason why that is not the case is that phosphates are allowed in many foods, but they are naturally present in many foods. If they were such a great risk to human health we would all have been ill long ago. Ibrahim dogus, the founder of the british kebab awards is here to chew this all over. Those puns. Are you relieved . We welcome the position taken by the European Parliament to allow kebabs to be made. What are phosphates used for in making doner kebabs . The phosphates are used in a very small section of industry, in the frozen doner kebab industry. The majority of kebabs shops are using home made kebabs and they dont use phosphates. But still, it is to keep meat moist and also give it a bit of flavour. It is an additive. There are many others used in many other industries. If they are only be used for a small number, would have had that much of an impact if it was banned . It would not impact british kebabs but in germany, frozen donor kebabs industries are bigger than it is in britain. In britain we have more restaurants and more takeaway stores making their own doner kebabs, but a frozen doner kebab is still part of the industry and it would have been bad to ban the use of phosphates in industry. How unhealthy is it to have phosphates as part of the process . The European FoodStandards Agency and Safety Authority made an assessment in 2013, confirming there is no health risk for any product using phosphates, it does not cause any direct health risk to consumers at all. How are you celebrating . With a plate of kebabs . With a big kebab. Im glad to hear it. It is unfortunate because everybody is hungry. What is your view on this great doner kebabs debate . Im not a great eater of donor kebabs, i have to say but if youre happy, im happy. Do you eat kebabs . I have a feeling that i fund a lot of kebab eating from my teenage sons. If they didnt like the ones with as many additives i would be happy to nudge it in that direction. For british meps that actually helped the industry here, there are falling a function in here. 2 more years to go and they can carry on doing good work. And then our parliament can sort this out. You cant underestimate the work that they are doing at the moment. Do you do any lobbying . We didnt do any direct lobbying. We knew the meps are sensible people. What make you think that, exactly . Most of our meps have been doing great work for many years. We would expect them. Is nigel farage on your side . That is it for now. Thanks to all of my guests. Obviously, to you too for being our guests of the day. From all of us here, goodbye. Good morning. After our wintry week of weather, its all change on the weather front. The week ahead looks mild for all of us. Theres also going to be a lot of dry weather in the story. But, unfortunately, not that much in the way of sunshine. Itll be quite cloudy. And we can see the first signs of that cloud spilling in from the atlantic through the night. Now, ahead of it, well keep some clear skies. So, a west east divide first thing in the morning. Eastern areas could start cold, even frosty as well. But you will see brightness. Patchy fog as well in the midlands and south east england. Thatll be slow to clear. Here, temperatures hovering around just below freezing. Further west, its a different story. The milder air pushing in and turning wet and windy. In fact, some of that rain as it pushes into the Higher Grounds of scotland will be heavy for a time. The rain pushes into South West Wales and South West England through the morning. The frost will lift. Dry weather clouding over. By the middle of the afternoon, the rain does push south east. That will give us quite a contrast into the afternoon. Showery outbreaks of rain linger into the south west. Poor visibility with any height in the Higher Grounds of wales. A similar story in the pennines. The south east, a wet end to the afternoon. The mild air behind it, 10 degrees in wales. And for Northern Ireland and scotland, not too bad. A real contrast to the morning. Sunshine coming through, just a few isolated showers in the far north. But nowhere near as cold as it has been. Rain continuing to sweep south overnight. Briefly, the wind could swing around to a north westerly for a time. And that means a slightly chilly start to monday morning in places. Temperatures falling as low as six degrees. It also means we could have brightness to start with in eastern areas. But this is the trend for the early half of the week. High pressure building from the south and it is likely to stay there. Weather fronts fringing the extreme north west. The winds will revert to a south westerly. A mild start to next week. A change to the feel of the weather if you have outdoor plans in the next few days. Christmas holidays coming. Cloud coming and double digits for all. Whatever you do, enjoy. Goodbye. Hello, this is breakfast, with Rachel Burden and ben thompson. Helping hundreds of thousands of people save for retirement the government says it will extend automatic enrolment in workplace pensions. Under the plans, every worker aged 18 or over could begin saving but it wont come into effect until the mid 2020s. Good morning, its sunday the 17th of december. Also this morning serious doubts over military savings a committee of mps warns the ministry of defence will struggle to pay for newjets, warships and armoured vehicles. A new leader of south africas ruling party is expected to be announced today after years of scandal and corruption