The times front page also reflects the granville service at st pauls. And theresa may could be heading for a second parliamentary defeat on brexit after wednesdays defeat. The zist brexit after wednesdays defeat. The 21st century fox assets is the lead story in the financial times. In the deal between disney and 21st century fox also leading the guardian. Also there, coverage of the impact of the g re nfell tower there, coverage of the impact of the Grenfell Tower tragedy. The netra reports that homelessness homelessness is up, according to the governments own legacy. It is time now for hardtalk. Welcome to hardtalk. I am stephen sacker. Not so hardtalk. I am stephen sacker. Not so long ago, british food was the laughing stock of the world. It was bland, stodgy and flavourless. But how things have changed. Today, the nation seems obsessed with cooking and baking on tv. My guest today is celebrity chef Marcus Wareing. Yes, we are now obsessed with good food. But is that altogether healthy . I could log in to hardtalk. There are an awful lot of ships in the world. 0nly are an awful lot of ships in the world. Only a few elite top chefs. There are an awful lot of chefs in the world. Only a very few elite, top chefs. What distinguishes the very best from the rest . I think it is i think first of all its a mindset, its a work ethic and i think there is a type of sacrifice that a top chef has and wants to sort of drive themselves individually, and as an individual, to excel head and shoulders above everybody else. And a lot of advice that ive ever had through the years coming through the ranks was. And it came from my father originally, was to stand out from the crowd and to do that you need to do Something Different. Most of the great chefs around the world started as apprentices to other truly great chefs. If we look at your cv, you worked with albert roux, youve obviously famously worked a lot with gordon ramsay, both in their different ways great chefs. So did you acquire skills and knowledge directly from them . Without a doubt. Your travels, your working in kitchens is the foundation of who you are as a chef. The most important thing about trying to be a good chef or someone who is going to be a little bit different is working with some of the best chefs. When you work through all the different kitchens, youre inspired, youre energised, but youre also gathering knowledge, education and discipline. Theyre leaders of examples and leaders of their industry and they have something to offer. They may not tell or talk to you every day, they may not tell you an idea or recipe, but you have to go into their kitchens and feed off their energy, like a big battery that you are sucking everything out of. You store it while youre training, you go and train more, you put it on a shelf, you go and train in another kitchen, you put all that information on the shelf and when you become a head chef you bring it all down and use all of that experience. Ive got, as it happens, your menus from last night here at marcus, your flagship two michelin star restaurant. And therefore, im looking at this, it all looks delicious, i notice a very big emphasis on british produce. Yes. You know, from starters of wood pigeon and portland crab and glazed ox tongue with dorset snails, through to your mains herdwick lamb, cumbrian veal, grouse, all of this, it sounds delicious, but very british. Yes. So this who am i question, what are your menus saying about who you are . So the way i look at my restaurants, and because the way in which Industries Change and farming and the way we receive our produce, i look at the uk as my local community of food. Because i can put an order in this morning from scotland and get it tomorrow morning. So things move quickly. So local, uk, and then i spread further afield into europe for other different types of produce that are better orfarmed better or just taste better and were always searching for something really nice. But i dont like to go too far across the world to gather food produce. So this idea of food miles matters to you . Very much. I think now in the world we need to be very careful that we arent purchasing too much from all over the world. I dont have japanese flavours through my menu, or curries. Certain things i dont need to put into this menu because its not really a reflection of me as a person. Ive never trained in lots of different cuisines, but i will never experiment them on my menu. So the reflection of the menu and the ingredients that youve talked about are about a local lad from the north west of england, using the produce from this fabulous country, this island, that we live on. I love it the phrase a local lad from southport, wasnt it, in the north west of england, with a dad who was a market trader. Its a great story. Does it sit uneasily with you in anyway, that here we are in a posh, expensive part of london, and all this fabulous food you are serving comes at a price. Your tasting menu is £120, roughly 140, your a la carte, i imagine a dish, a main, would be about £60, £70. But isnt it nice, even for a northern lad, to maybe come with your girlfriend or your wife and dress up, come to knightsbridge, come to london, do Something Different . Were not on everyones doorstep, we just happen to be in the heart of london. I sort of love it. Im proud to have worked my way from there. It didnt arrive on a silver tray, it was a lot of hard work. And what about food snobbery . I mean, you have two michelin stars. Not many chefs around the world do. But there is something about this whole sort of fetishisation of the michelin star which sticks in some peoples throats. Do you sometimes feel that its the wrong way to reallyjudge the quality of food and restaurants . No, i dont. I think michelin are very, very important and very present. I think their history determines how good they really are. They are judging chefs as a guide and theyre giving you a point of recognition and giving you an accolade. Its not something you ask for, it is given to you. Its almost a gift of your standards of what you do. But it puts you under enormous pressure. Some chefs have started saying to michelin, even if theyve had in the past one or two stars, they are now saying, i dont want to be part of your network. I dont want to be judged by you any more. The pressure is too constant, its too immense. The things you require of us in terms of the level of service, the presentation, arejust actually making us a restaurant we dont want to be. I disagree. Because i dont think its the michelin putting the pressure on the chef, its the general public and the expectation of the general public. In the last ten years, social media has become a big part. Everybody in your restaurant now can post their thoughts of the dinner, of the experience they are eating. So i think its more thanjust michelin. Every person at your table is now a reviewer. Exactly and they can post something on the internet. Does that scare the hell out of you . Oh, no. Its a challenge, it sets standards, it even tells me what my restaurant is doing when im not here. You have to embrace technology, you have to embrace it. Even if i dont like it and do it as well as the next chef, i do have a team of people around me that can advise me and show me how to move forward. But if i look down on that process, and i look down and say michelin delivers pressure, then i would be a nervous wreck. You must always turn pressure into positive thinking and positive energy and enjoy yourjob. Go back to your roots. Think about those ingredients. Stop worrying about what everyone is saying. The late aa gill, i dont know if you knew him, but he was one of britains sort of best known restaurant reviewers and he rebelled against the michelin spirit. The sort of smart, formal dining that it seemed to encourage. He said this, the guide now seems to be wholly out of touch with the way people now actually eat. Its still rewarding fat, conservative, fussy rooms, maybe he meant rooms like this, that use expensive ingredients with ingratiating pomp to serve glossy plutocrats. Is that marcus . No. Absolutely not and i dont think fine dining is that. I think there are lots of food writers and critics maybe that dont see the fun or the luxury or the enjoyment in fine dining, because it is a homage to the chef and i think the world has changed. I think a chef cooking in a high street restaurant, thats got 20 seats in and hes slaving away in the back of a kitchen, an open kitchen. That is today as enjoyable as eating in a fine dining restaurant. Its all about what somebody wants for an occasion and if im going to set up a restaurant in this hotel, a 5 star hotel, it is known all over the world, theres a level of luxury i have to provide and i want to provide. It strikes me that as youve become more successful, like so many top chefs youve developed the brand and become a tv personality, youre on the british masterchef show, which has made you enormously popular in this country. Youve also opened other restaurants in central london, so now youve got a stable of three. It all means that you are not every single lunchtime and dinner actually in the kitchen, here at your number one restaurant, doing it yourself. It strikes me that when people come here, and as weve discussed they do pay a substantial amount of money for food from the marcus restaurant, they expect Marcus Wareing to be slaving away in the kitchen. I think life has changed and up until four years ago when i revamped this restaurant i was in this kitchen every single day. I never looked for television, it came and found me. I never, ever woke up and wanted to write a cookery book and i never needed to open two of the restaurants on top of this. I was very satisfied with what i had. So why did you do it . Why did you stretch yourself . Because i found i had some very talented people underneath me that i had to find opportunities for. And what i see is having those other restaurants, ive created opportunities for very talented people to become bosses within their own right, within my stable. But what if you stretch yourself too thin . No. What if the standards at this restaurant to be honest are not quite as good when you are not here . I come back. I say goodbye to television and goodbye to books and i do thejob that im paid to do, which is cook. The rest is a luxury item that is added my life. Interesting you talk about the team. Theres been a lot of discussion recently about the workplace sort of temperature in top kitchens and there is a lot of discussion about, and theres no other word for it, bullying and abuse that happens in kitchens and is often driven by the character of the number one chef, which in this case of course would be you. Have you bullied your staff in the past . I think bullying is a word that is dressed up in many ways. I was born in the 70s and bullying was something that was done in the playground. It was a fight, a push, it was verbal. I dont think that happens in kitchens. Ive never experienced it myself in kitchens. Im amazed. Ive raised my voice, swear, shout and drive people very, very hard through a hard service . Yes. Ive had it done to me and ive done it on my staff in the past. There have been serious incidents in kitchens. Im looking at one in france, where a station chef deliberately and repeatedly scalded his kitchen assistant, there were other incidents that came into light after that with sous chefs and assistants recounting tales of abuse ranging, im quoting here it sounds absurd, but its not, including a slap in the face with a wet fish, being stabbed in the calves with a kitchen knife, all sorts of different burning incidents. 0ne ex assista nt told a reporter in france, quote, these torturers must be told that they are destroying lives. What the heck is going on in some of these kitchens . I think these are very few incidences that are overshadowing a fabulous industry thats bigger than a handful of incidents or many, many more. There are millions of people working in our industry and thousands and thousands of kitchens just running through london alone. I think the kitchens are Pressure Cookers. What has changed, and this is something we really must focus on, is kitchens have become very much open places and the chef is part of the front of service as well as the back. Chefs are now delivering food. So i believe that the way. You actually come out here of an evening . Yes, we can come out and even my chefs can come out here and speak to customers. But whats changed is we, the chef, have now neutralised error in kitchen. The Pressure Cooker of the kitchen was driven by hard cookery on top of a hot stove and in the oven. It was all cooked last minute. So the science of food has allowed us to change the way we cook, we are sometimes taking the training out of our young chefs to make thejob easier. Because theres so much choice and so few people wanting to necessarily work in our industry. Maybe thats because you dont pay enough as well. Thats wrong. We pay our staff minimum and above minimum wage. Minimum wage is a bit of a low bar youre setting yourself. Minimum wage is a point of, if you work an 8 hour day, you find it tough to survive and some of my chefs do much longer days and they can have about £30,000 which is just below a trainee chef. The average wage in the uk is £27,000 and youre saying, if they work ridiculously long hours, your guys mightjust get to that sort of threshold. You own one of the most luxurious restaurants in all of london. But we are delivering a standard. This is a school of education as well as a job. And we must identify the difference. You dont enterfine dining just for a job. You have to want to be here. The key thing here is choice. Everybody who wakes up in the morning in this part of the western world can have a choice in life. You can get out of bed and look for a job, you can work as many hours as you like and you can pretty much never, ever be out of work but dont work in fine dining at the top end if you want an easy life because it doesnt exist. British people spend £3 billion a year on ready meals. Thats six times more than in spain. Whatever we do when we switch on the telly and watch you cooking up fine food, we go to the shop and buy a ready meal. We buy ready meals for one reason. First of all theyre sitting on the shelf, available, there are more of them and people are working hard with less time and maybe dont want to cook. Schools finish later, the school runs different. Everybodys lifestyle is changing. Social media is changing things. Go to supermarkets, theres your problem of obesity, theres your problem of convenience. Its interesting you talk about the obesity problem and you say you believe you are part of a culture which is beginning to respect and understand food much better but you actually opposed your fellow top chef jamie oliver when he campaigned so long and hard for a sugar tax to be put on the example the sugary drinks, the pop that so many kids still consume. You seemed to think that was a very bad idea. Why . I dont think it was a bad idea. My concern was, what are we going to do with that money . That tax . My concern is, what happens with that tax . The thing thatjamie 0liver has done over the years is really open people up to how we have cooked at home. Hes the one that put all the petitions together, hes the guy that went to downing street. Campaigned for better Quality School lunches. You cant just stop at downing street with a tax. It isnt so much what we do with a tax, it is to send a price signal to people that they shouldnt be buying all of these very sweet and fizzy drinks. The price goes up a little bit. They will still buy them. You still think so . Alcohol will go up in a pub. You seem to have a view that government and authorities have no role to play. You said, it is not the responsibility of government but parents. We are all human beings who can read and write. Lets not blame the government. There are only two people to blame for the obesity crisis, mum and dad. Doesnt it start at home . Why should the government be responsible for what people purchase in the shop . Why should we hold the government responsible for our choices . Theyre not our teachers or guardians. They have a completely different role and a hard role at that. I think theyve got more important things to worry about with the economy and with brexit and what they are going to do with our taxes to worry about what we are consuming at home. Is brexit worrying you as a restauranteur . Is it going to change your business. Yes, in many ways. I voted to remain. Ive learned more about brexit. I am excited about the choice of leaving. I was shocked the morning i woke up and heard the result. After 2a hours of thinking about it, weve just got to get on with this. The country has made a decision. Lets do it. What is the positive we can drive from leaving europe . That is that we have to potentially build our own future . Why i voted to remain was purely from the employment point of view. There are restaurateurs saying they are losing staff, there are people saying the double whammy of losing key staff who are heading for home or not applying forjobs that have become vacant from europe, the pool of talented european staff who are available to british restaurants is diminishing. But also the pound is much weaker and thats affecting you as you import some of your foodstuffs with a double whammy and some restaurateurs are saying they will have to close. From the point of view of where we purchase, the customers will get a hit on that. You have to pay your bills and wages but its interesting in not having more of the European Community coming into the uk to work and that is that we, the brits, have got to get out of bed and maybe work a bit harder and it will make us better employers. I think we need to change our approach a little bit more because what quality we have, were going to have to take really good care of it. Secondly, were going to have put better apprenticeship schemes in and Start Talking to the youth about exciting industries. When i was at school and at college, two or three things stood out. Woodwork, metalwork, cookery, sewing and all sorts of Different Things i did as a young boy at school. You dont see a lot of this. We need to really get back to really Good Industries and saying its not all about going to university. Thats fine if it comes to pass but in the short run, for example, how many of your kitchen staff, the team here at marcus restaurant, are from other parts of the European Union . About one third. More at the lower end. What i find is that they are here for better opportunity. You probably get a better wage over here even though they might say that they dont. Its also the opportunity i think we can give people. Many of these folks may well over the next year or two may have to reconsider their position. We, the employers, must make some big changes. I think on a negative note, a european family coming to work with us, we need to work closely with our schools and colleges and create a workforce from our own pool of talent. We need to be growing our own talent now and put more emphasis on us and not relying upon our european neighbours to work for us. And briefly, in terms of the produce as well. Because of the weaker pound and the more expensive produce brought in from abroad, you need to source more and more of everything you provide to customers from the uk. And thats going to make us better farmers, we need to look at agriculture and change lots of Different Things going forward. Its going to take a long time. This will be going on way beyond my time. I do think there is a great chance for us to put the great back into Great Britain again because this is our time to live again and not a line that fabulous european flair thats been taking care of our industry for so many years because you cant deny that our european neighbours, they do bring a sense of class to our catering industry that maybe we, the brits, dont have. Weve got to find it. We have to, we have no choice. We now start to create and make our own noise in the world. Who would ever say that wed grow and make wine in this country . Were making more english wine than ever. Thats going to continue and thats a celebration. Marcus wareing, thats a great place to end. Thank you very much for being on hardtalk. My pleasure. Well, the cold snaps not quite over yet. Of course, the snow has stopped, mostly that is, but its still pretty chilly out there and in some parts of the country we still have a little bit of snow lying around here and there, presumably this is from a snowman. Theres also the risk of some ice also first thing on friday morning, a really messy picture, by that i mean theres a lot of cloud, theres showers of rain, theres hail, sleet, snow falling across the hills and with temperatures freezing or below freezing outside of town theres the risk of iciness. You can see carlisle above freezing, couple of degrees above zero in manchester and some of those country lanes will be pretty cold. You know what happens at this time of year after a clear night, the air temperature might be just above zero, two or three degrees, but the road surface, the ground, is below zero, its frozen, so with rain showers moving through, you get that risk of icy patches, so take it steady. In terms of the weather on friday, there will be some sunshine around in many western areas, beautiful weather in the lowlands, southern scotland, cumbria, lancashire, throughout wales and the south coast but these eastern areas will continue to have some showers. The wind from the north is blowing in the cloud and showers and only five expected in newcastle. Friday night is going to be cold, a frost on the way once again. You can see it developing across scotland, the north of england, all the way down to the south as well, so that means first thing on saturday its going to be cold. One thing that is going to be happening during saturday is milder air starts to move in off the atlantic but its a slow process, after days of colder weather, mild air often doesnt march in, it sort of moves in very, very slowly. On saturday, still pretty cold, a frost around in places in the morning and those temperatures struggling, 2 3, a bit milder in western areas, six expected in belfast. Then the south westerlies kick in by sunday, with that cloud and rain, often happens. Look at those temperatures, 11s or 12s, glasgow getting up to around 10 degrees. Those south westerly winds all the way from the southern climes will continue to blow in during the course of monday, so that milder trend certainly continues into next week. How are we doing compared to other parts of europe . You can see london is on a par with paris during the course of the weekend. Elsewhere across the continent, athens in the high teens with some showers on the way. Bye bye. This is the briefing. Im david eades. Our top stories child abuse on a staggering scale at more than 4,000 institutions. A 5 year australian enquiry hands over its final report. Eu leaders are widely expected to give a green light to the next phase in brexit talks at their summit in brussels. Ukraines Anti Corruption chief tells the bbc the government isnt serious about reform. And coming up in the business briefing, end of an empire Rupert Murdochs fox sells its entertainment business to disney in a 52 billion deal. Plus 2017s been a gift for investors but will wall street nerves spoil the traditional santa rally . Well be tapping the stock Market Wisdom of david buik