Out the Regional Government in catalonia, imposed direct rule from madrid and called regional elections, it took a calculated risk. Next month well see whether it was well advised. If catalans give a clear majority to Pro Independence parties, spain and the European Union will be facing a protracted crisis. Can madrid outmanoeuvre the secessionists . You use a spray of minister for eu affairs. Jorge toledo, in madrid, welcome. Thank you very much. You presumably what the forces of unity at the Political Party backing the integrity of spain as it currently exists, to win . I do. That is by personal opinion but that is not up to me. This is democracy. The cata la n to me. This is democracy. The catalan people in a perfectly legal and organised election shoes as they wish. Indeed but my point is that these, if you want the forces supporting it unity to win, why dont you make it a little bit easierfor dont you make it a little bit easier for those parties dont you make it a little bit easierfor those parties by acknowledging the grave mistakes that madrid made in the run up to and on the day of the catalan referendum on independence . Surely that would help, if you actually said he made some terrible errors . Well, i do not need anybody. A do not need to acknowledge any mistakes. We all make mistakes but the biggest mistake was to revoke a simple majority of the government, jumping over every legality, even at their rain, they rebate on the basis of the rights and freedom of all cata la ns of the rights and freedom of all catalans in of the rights and freedom of all catala ns in catalonia. Of the rights and freedom of all catalans in catalonia. That was the biggest mistake. Let me criticise the mistakes, the great mistakes and damage they have done to catalonia, economic, socialfracture. Leeson, this is the big issue. The damage that the independent government have done the catalonia and this. We will recover rob lee is because of the first you need is legal certainty. 2700 companies have left catalonia because of these and we wa nt catalonia because of these and we want them to go back and do that they need legal certainty. When you revoke every legality and do not even follow your own legality, nobody wants to go to your place so that we still legality and then we can build together. Ifi make interrupted you for a second, i askedif interrupted you for a second, i asked if any at knowledge meant of your mistake. Dont you worry, we will talk to the catalan Regional Government about the things they did ata government about the things they did at a need to press the yuan things you did. Example, was it was the youth, use such powerful polarising when you they called the referendum. You called it an evil act. Why on earth did you call it evil . These arejust earth did you call it evil . These are just civilians conducting the vote. It was a governmentjumping over eve n vote. It was a governmentjumping over even their regional law, the basis of legitimacy, breaking laws to approve a referendum which they knew was illegal. That is evil. You cannot jump over democratic laws. Evil . Evil. 0k, it is illegaland the media legal in a democratic world. Evil evokes something about the mindset of the government in madrid seems to have. Sending in Security Forces to stop peaceable men and women from voting, dragging them by their hair, beating them up. Human Rights Groups reporting there we re d oze ns human Rights Groups reporting there were dozens of people who had injuries as a result. Again, if you we re injuries as a result. Again, if you were to say for that, it might were to say sorry for that, it might change the political atmosphere in the run up to the december 21st bite. Will you do that . Listen, i am sorry and we regret there were people injured. As far as we know, there were two people in hospital, one with a heart attack and we have unchecked reports about being injured and thats regrettable but the Police Forces were sent there by a judge, a catalan judge the Police Forces were sent there by a judge, a catalanjudge by the way, to enforce a court order. They used false and 2,200,000 people, to people in hospital. That is regretful. I am sorry for the people who got injured but. It would help if you were truthful about the real extent of the injuries. The hague centre for Strategic Study did a survey of what happened and found hundreds of voters had been injured on polling days and concluded that the use of force are displayed by the use of force are displayed by the Spanish Police has no place in an established democracy. The use of force was done under court orders in the face of resistance and Violent Attacks against the police. They we re attacks against the police. They were 45 policemen injured. So in 2,200,000 thousand there were two people in hospital. It is regretful. Ido people in hospital. It is regretful. I do not agree with what the hague Conference Organisation says. We have to back up Police Forces when they act following a court order. I am sorry. We have to do that in spain, the uk, in any democratic country. Another question concerning the atmosphere in the run up to the vote, it concerned the fate of several members of the former Regional Administration who are languishing in spanish jails Regional Administration who are languishing in spanishjails at right now, including, of course, the former Vice President of the Regional Government. He has described the situation inside his prison as, communication with the outside world is very limited, we can only talk for 50 minutes on the phone each week and i have not seen my children yet. How do you feel about locking up, again, isay my children yet. How do you feel about locking up, again, i say it, civilian politicians who at pursuing their political agenda within a lack did mandate from their voters and you lock them up in these conditions . How do you as a democrat feel about that . I tell you howl feel about that . I tell you howl feel about that . I tell you howl feel about that. I have my own opinion. You say you lock them up. It isa opinion. You say you lock them up. It is a judge who has locked them up, put them in provisional prison for committing crimes because they are accused of committing serious crimes. It is the judge are accused of committing serious crimes. It is thejudge in any democratic country who puts people in jail, democratic country who puts people injail, especially provisionally. These people are accused of serious crimes and these people have the same rights, i suppose, as any person who is injail. I do not think they can complain of having worse better treatment than anybody else they are in one of the most modern prisons are. If you are a democrat, doesnt it trouble you that with the vote on december 21 lemming and 0rioljunqueras and others wanting to put themselves forward to the public for an election. It seems very troubling that they are still locked up. White do they need to be locked up and give them their freedom because they are not convicted of anything. Give them the freedom that they can participate . In spain, in the uk, the one who puts people in prison is a judge and the one who decides to put them out prison is a judge. I could have mighty opinion, it would be more comfortable politically if they were not in a prison but this is not our call, this is not the governments all. In a democracy, in the uk it is the same thing. They have appealed the court order, it will be reviewed by the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court will decide probably in the next few days at the government cannot do anything. These people were not put in prison because of what they think, 0rioljunqueras has been accused of committing crimes. He can defend himself with all the guarantees and if proven guilty, he will go or not to jail depending on what thejudge will go or not to jail depending on what the judge says not what the government says. Lets get to the head of government, Mariano Rajoy, i wonder what his message is to the people of catalonia today, what is the offering catala ns people of catalonia today, what is the offering catalans in terms of a response to the political situation in the region which suggests madrid is listening and madrid is prepared to offer something to the people of the region to give them more power, a sense that madrid is prepared to meet them at least halfway in their desire for more autonomy, more Regional Power . You must know that catalonia is probably the region with other regions in spain which has the most powers are. That is not true. That is not true, jorge toledo, i cant let you get away with that. I can name you to regions, they both have much more significant tax raising and fiscal powers than catalonia. You know that. No, no, catalonia has all the powers which they could not have. Anyway, catalonia has never had so much power and we can discuss that. It can discuss fiscal arrangements. In fact, president Mariano Rajoy has invited the band president Carles Puigdemont to discuss the commission, the fiscal territorial arrangement and they do not come. Mariano rajoy has offered to discuss 45 different complaints that effect real life for real people in catalonia and they have refused. Mariano rajoy is offering first of all to restore the legality, to serve government, to have election and with the new cattle and government it will be open for discussing any thing and if they wa nted discussing any thing and if they wanted change the constitution, we have our legal framework, they have to propose that in parliament. Where do you conduct political dialogue in a democracy . It has to be in parliament. Mariano rajoy has always been and always will be open to dialogue of stockbroker mission to discuss, if we need, and what we need to reform our constitution and thatis need to reform our constitution and that is the place to discuss it. Be clear about one thing, neither of us knows how this election will work out on the december 21, but if those parties that clearly backing independent win a clear majority in the new Regional Government and the latest opinion polls i have seen suggest the party in the lead, 0riol junquerass party, entirely committed to independence, it looks like the vote is there to be very close. If the forces of independence when, will you accept that represent a legitimate mandate for the catalan Regional Government to push on with their quest for secession and independents to smack it will be a mandate . No, i dont accept that. In order to do that they will have two goes at present themselves in the Spanish Parliament were all spaniards are represented and the presentation of all spaniards decide what their country is. The fundamental thing here which is missing is, where is it written, not in the spanish constitution or in International Public law, that a part of a country can decide what the whole country is. It is also personalfor me. I wa nt to is. It is also personalfor me. I want to decide what my country is. Why should anyone deprive me from voting in the end orfrom giving my opinion of my country. The definition of my country. You know, we have a constitution that was approved by 91 of catalans, which is very clear about this. It is very clear and it says that what the country is, what spain is, has to be decided by all spaniards are. Interesting, and i am not setting any movement or compromised in your a nswe is , any movement or compromised in your answers, but it is interesting to note that in 2006 the constitutional agreement that spain signed up to did talk of a catalan nation. You are now, it seems, not prepared to recognise any notion of Self Determination for the people of catalonia. I would just suggest to you that if there is a vote goes the way of the independence parties, you are going to have a crisis in spain and the European Union will probably begin to lose patience with the madrid government that is not prepared to talk the language of compromise. Well, that is your opinion. It is not my opinion. These kinds of things cant happen in europe, in the European Union any more. The European Union has a treaty. We have all signed to this treaty. We have all signed to this treaty. It says that the European Union, meaning the european institutions and the european countries, Member States, have institutions and the european countries, memberstates, have two respect Constitutional Order of the Member States. It would not be possible in france, it would not be possible in france, it would not be possible in france, it would not be possible in germany. In italy the Constitutional Court revoked a law in some of the italian provinces calling for a referendum of Self Determination. The only difference with the Catalan Government and as Regional Government and as Regional Government in italy is that the Regional Government in italy accepted the court ruling. The Regional Government in catalonia didnt. It is a question, it is not a question of law and democracy. What is the law in a democratic world . What is the law in a democratic world . Is the expression of democratic dialogue. You want to change the constitution, come, proposes, if you have enough support we will change it. We will all be able to vote. Mr toledo, let us move on to another issue which is very much in your portfolio, given that you are responsible for eu affairs. That is the state of the brexit negotiations. The British Government is very keen to see the eu move on to the next phase of brexit negotiations when the European Council meets in december. The british say they have done enough on the various first phase issues to move to the really big deal, which is talking about the future trade relationship. Do you, in spain, ce enough progress made for you and your government to back a move to the second phase of the brexit negotiations see enough question whether negotiations are under way as we talk. I hear there is some progress. There was not enough progress. There was not enough progress last time we met at the European Council. There was some positive steps, i must say, taken by Prime Minister may that were acknowledged and we in spain acknowledged and we in spain acknowledge them. We think that we need a deal and we think we are getting closer. But we need something more. And the British Government knows. Let me, let me try to make this quick. We dont have that much time. And dont try to make it quick. Let us get to specifics. Start with the money. In brief, theresa may and her cabinet appeared to have sanctioned now, offering the eu roughly a0 billion euros as a financial settlement as pa rt euros as a financial settlement as part of the recent deal, is that enough, yes or no . No. It is not that it enough, yes or no . No. It is not thatitis enough, yes or no . No. It is not that it is not enough. We are not looking for a figure. We are looking for a commitment to honour past commitments. We dont have to agree ona commitments. We dont have to agree on a figure at this stage. We had to agree on principles to arrive at a figure with the final deal is made. All right. Next issue. It is very pressing in recent days with a difficult relationship developing between the British Government and the Irish Government. The Irish Government says it will veto any move to the next phase of negotiations, unless the uk government is entirely clear about how it is going to avoid a hard border between northern ireland, which of course remains part of the united kingdom, and the republic of ireland, which, of course, is a member state of the European Union. Do you feel that enough progress has been made on that issue . In that we back our irish, our republic of ireland friends. I know that Prime Minister may and the uk want the same solution, that we have no border between the republic of ireland and northern ireland. We all wa nt ireland and northern ireland. We all want the good friday agreement to survive brexit and we want the common travel area. We have to find solutions. And al arish friends tell us we solutions. And al arish friends tell us we need some solutions. And al arish friends tell us we need some more solutions. And al arish friends tell us we need some more commitment. So we will trust them that our irish. The British Government is also blaming the irish and saying that the irish are playing politics with the border issue. You seem to be suggesting to me that there is absolute unity among all of the Member States of the European Union, excluding britain, of course, unity and that this is not a case of ireland playing politics, you all, right now, do not believe that the uk has offered enough on the border. Is that what you are saying . Uk has offered enough on the border. Is that what you are saying . |j uk has offered enough on the border. Is that what you are saying . I was in dublin last week. My irish collea g u es in dublin last week. My irish colleagues told me that they need some more concrete commitment. So i am willing to trust them there. They know what its all about, i know what its all about, but i prefer to trust them and the negotiator. We trust them and the negotiator. We trust our irish colleagues on that. We know that the uk is also interested in preserving the good friday agreement. I think we can get an agreement soon. A final point about brexit, which is taking us back to catalonia, in a way. The scottish nationalist movement, and of course they are in government in scotla nd of course they are in government in scotland in their government, they are keen to halt after brexit a second Scottish Independence referendum. If they win it does look as though there is a strong possibility scotland might, before too long, be an independent nation. If that were to be the case, and they applied for membership to the European Union after the uk had exited from the European Union, would spain are welcome scotland into the European Union . Mr sackur, their right to many ifs in your question. Allow me not to respond clearly to the question. If, if, if. This thing about referendums and Self Determination and referendums. My Self Determination and referendums. My point of view, it is never ending. We will respect the uk legality. If there is a legal referendum will have nothing to say about it. And i hope the Scottish Government has the same respect for our constitution that we have for their constitution. All right, well, i think their constitution. All right, well, ithinki their constitution. All right, well, i think i am reading between the lines there. I will end with one big thought about the European Union. It is your portfolio. I think it is fairto is your portfolio. I think it is fair to say that there are lots of big visions around. We had Jean Claude Juncker outlining a very ambitious vision for a more integrated, united europe, we had Emmanuel Macron talking about the necessity for europe to develop much closer financial integration with a financial minister, a finance minister. Some beginnings of pan european taxation, a defence force. I sat the same time, there is a massive leadership problem. Angela merkel is in trouble. But at the centre. Your government is weak, it has corruption scandals as well as the catalonia problem. Mr macron is not very popular. Where is the leadership that will make these dreams of a powerful, integrated eu into reality . I tell you something, spain has always been a very pro european country, except some, like mr puigdemont, who was insulting European Union yesterday. We will be among the most ambitious. We had gone through a very, very difficult crisis, economic crisis in spain, we are now growing. We will get over this catalan constitutional crisis. Legality has been restored. We will be the leading the deepening of the European Union. I can assure you of that. Thank you. Jorge toledo, thank you very much had been on hardtalk. Thank you very much to you. I hope next time, if there is a next time, it will be face to face. Thank you. Hello there. If tuesday was too cold for you, i dont think youre going to find much comfort in the forecast for the next couple of days. If anything, it will get even colder. These northerly winds diving all the way down from the arctic, the air turning increasingly cold, and with that, some wintry showers feeding in across northern and eastern areas. Now, where the showers have fallen through the night across northern scotland, there is some risk of icy stretches. There could be snow mixed in with these showers. Even to fairly low levels. Most of those will be falling as rain and sleet. Some snow over high ground. The west through the midlands and into wales, the south west, largely dry. Very chilly. Widespread frost. Showers into west wales and parts of cornwall. These showers will continue to trickle southwards during the day. Further east we will keep the showers in the east coast of england and into north east scotland. Wintry over high ground. At times it could be wintry to lower levels. Northern ireland, largely dry with sunshine. 3 seven degrees, wherever you are. It will feel cold with the strength of the wind. Wednesday night, you can see the haze of blue spreading across the map. A widespread frost. Showers confined to the immediate coastal strip at this stage in northern scotla nd strip at this stage in northern scotland and eastern england. Any showers that do fall could be wintry, even to fairly low levels. During thursday, High Pressure to the west, low pressure squeezing in on the east. That will strengthen the winds across these eastern areas. Still feeding showers across east scotland and across the east coast of england. Even to low levels at this stage. Do not be surprised if there is snow mixed into the showers. A lot of crisp sunshine. Add on the strength of the winds. This is what it will feel like on thursday afternoon. Subzero in many places. For friday, still some showers. Could be wintry, initially, across the south east. Then a band of showery rain across the north west. For the time being, things remain chilly, even when we get some sunshine. As we head into the weekend, some signs that things will temporarily turn milder. Some patchy rain at times. Welcome to bbc news, broadcasting to viewers in north america and around the globe. Im duncan golestani. Our top stories. The bells ring out for pope francis as he arrives to celebrate mass for the first time in myanmar. North korea test fires another Ballistic Missile triggering condemnation from washington, tokyo, and seoul. A warning that the fight to stamp out malaria could be damaged due to a lack of funding. Also in the programme, a fairytale wedding for prince harry and meghan markle. Itll take place next may in a royal castle. Tens of thousands of people in myanmar have gathered in yangon