Im stephen sackur. There are some film directors who strip things down, shun artifice and worship at the altar of realism. My guest sees filmmaking through a very different lens. He made his directorial name with a wildly entertaining debut movie called strictly ballroom, which was theatrical, sentimental and sweet. Since then he has continued to make larger than life films based on epic stories. How did a boy from the australian backwoods get to make his celluloid dreams come true . Baz luhrmann, welcome to hardtalk. Im very happy to be here, stephen. I want to start this interview in herons creek, this tiny little place north of sydney, where you grew up. It was a long way from anywhere, really. How come you, there, developed this incredibly vivid artistic imagination . Mmm, you know, some point midway through my journey mmm, you know, some point midway through myjourney i started to get quite self conscious about. And you do when youre young and youre trying to be someone and be creative and i gave up on the self consciousness of going too deep into the who i am and tried to work that out just by doing. Having said that. Laugh. How do i keep these answers short, because of never given the short answer in my life . Having said that, it never seemed exceptional, strange or unusual to me. I always imagined, when i was in that tiny little island, which was really a gas station and a restaurant and we had a farm down the road. And your father ran the gas station . My and your father ran the gas station . My father ran the gas station but what was crazy about it was that that was obsessed that the isolation would not keep us isolated so we had so would not keep us isolated so we had so many interesting people come and live with us. You know, painters, and he sort of had this idea that we would be the renaissance players of herons creek. Was he an australian who felt out of tune with australia . Because, my perhaps stereotypical cliches notion of the australia of your youth, particularly, you know, in the nonmetropolitan areas, would have been about a very macho culture, pretty much preoccupied with sports and maybe, for the men, beer. And yet, you gravitated to things including cinema and dance and a whole bunch of other stuff that were nothing to do with that stuff. First of all the stereotype, right, because i think youre probably somewhat on point but i would also proffer that one of the idiosyncratic qualities about australia, which is a tremendous thing, is what i would call flashes of lightning culture. Meaning, you might look at sydney and go, well, what a generic bunch of buildings and then suddenly, the sydney opera house. You know. And you might go, well, there it is, isolated edge of the world but along comes a Gough Whitlam and our fore ba rers comes a Gough Whitlam and our forebarers who say we must have a drama school, we must have a film school. This is in the 70s and we, the government, will fund it. And had they not done that, that extreme action, i would not be sitting here. All those well known storytellers that you know wouldnt exist. So lets go back to my father. He was all those things. Imean, he he was all those things. I mean, he was in the vietnam war, he was the equivalent of a kind of navy seal, that was his job. He was really disciplined. We really pushed us. He was such an. I now realise it was an extraordinary existence but he was also a very. He was a romantic, i think. Soi he was a romantic, i think. So i suppose when. Im going to fast forward a little bit, you got into acting, you went to sydney, got into lots of different creative stuff. I was ready doing it. I was ready doing it. I was making films. I was making films. I was always doing it. So it was in you from a very young age. And i a very young age. And i was doing ballroom dancing and ballroom dancing was a kind of for me working class escape into the theatre. Imean, you escape into the theatre. I mean, you dressed up in costume, you perform, you travelled miles, you perform, you travelled miles, you got very wrapped up you got very wrapped up with your partner. Imean, it up with your partner. I mean, it was showbiz. And if you dont mind me saying, andi and if you dont mind me saying, and i dont mean this in any. I dont. Its camp, to a certain extent. Ballroom dancing is camp . Let me think about that. I dont know. Its camp. I wonder if that appealled to you too, the gender fluidity, as we would now say. One thing at a time, i think. Lets define camp, meaning like oscar wilde once said, and he probably didnt, maybe it was set about him, but that camp is dealing with something quite serious but ina with something quite serious but in a very silly offhanded way and the idea of using silly or theatrical or cue the petal drop, asa or theatrical or cue the petal drop, as a device to effect an audience so that you are dealing with something quite serious and emotional or a big idea, that mechanism, i guess is inherent in me and what is so odd is that when i started exploring that, imean, i when i started exploring that, i mean, i went to drama school and did artaud and brecht and did artaud and brecht and minimalism but when i started to be honest with my own gestures and that came into my way of expressing myself, what is so odd about it is that now we live in a world where that particular sensibility, whether it is in fashion, cinema, music its kind of de rigueur. It is hugely popular. Hugely popular. I tell you what, for people who havent seen strictly ballroom, lets have a clip. This was your first movie . It was the first day of shooting. We said to have done at an an hour but it took three. Its kind of an outrageous success making your first move you make something that not only breaks the bounds of australian cinema but gets shown at international awards, in cannes, it becomes big in america. It is just big in america. It isjust a big in america. It is just a Massive International hit. That sounds great but we have not got time to go onto the real story but the real story begins with making the film, committing at some point to the idea that had make cinematic language that had make cinematic language that somehow reflect did what it was as a play. I devised that as a play. You had written it as a play. I devised it with a group of actors i was working with at the National Institute of dramatic art where we we re of dramatic art where we were experimenting with you make place and i took a subject of a new, ballroom dancing, andi a subject of a new, ballroom dancing, and i also took the hero powerful myths and i was splicing logy. Powerful myths and i was splicing mythology, the powerful myths and i was splicing l gy the ugly powerful myths and i was splicing mythology, the Ugly Duckling myth, and then it was political. We took it to a drama school in czechoslovakia during glasnost against all the soviet state theatres, thinking this will be a ridiculous but, at some point, in that production, it was a bit more brechtian, we had tapes of like Ronald Reagan and Maggie Thatcher in it and Maggie Thatcher in it and so forth so it did have an underlying political deal. Again, this is important we talk about other movies and the way you develop them. One message in the movie is about breaking the rules, not being a conformist. The strain Dance Commission had its own rules and the girl in the movie says no, i want to do Something Different and persuades the boy to sign up to just and persuades the boy to sign up tojust doing things and persuades the boy to sign up to just doing things differently, breaking the rules, being yourself. Correct. And, hilariously, you could apply that undercarriage of that story toa that undercarriage of that story to a popular revolution. Imean, to a popular revolution. I mean, overthrowing the incumbent generation and leaders to say who say there is only one way to cha cha cha. Ive got the rulebook, i will give you the tips, i will give you the tips, i will let you know whether your right or not and then, the youth said no, we can set aside the youth said no, we can set aside the rulebook and we going to go up the rulebook and we going to go up against it. And then you meet another youth that says that and then you go on and then it is a popular revolution. Sounds heavy but thats where we come in from. What interesting is, you say it sounds heavy, it sounds fascinating but what it doesnt sound like, to some people, i think, isa to some people, i think, is a baz luhrmann movie because they think you have become so associated with the sort of over the top, grandiose, epic scale and at the glitz and the glamour and whatnot. Sure. Do you feel that a lot of people havent taken your movies seriously enough . Yes, sure. And certainly critically but whats so strange cause i am quite old now, stephen i have seen the miracle of like one of the great critics, owen leiberman, a huge critic in the states who absolutely. Slayed moulin rouge. You say, here we go again. And there was a time when you could take the reviews from strictly ballroom and apply them to pretty much maligned and so forth. But i have never seen this happen before, in his book, he rewrote his review ten years later and has a beat in his book and are actually met him and are actually met him andi and are actually met him and i was really. Of course, youre happy that. He decided ten years on that actually he had missed the point . His language was, there was a method to the madness and i could see that, actually, this wasntjust kind of campfor actually, this wasntjust kind of camp for the sake of it but it was employed in the pursuit ofa but it was employed in the pursuit of a slightly bigger idea. But i suppose my question would then be, d oyou ever reflect and think, you know, many are got a little bit seduced by the fact that hollywood was flinging money at me so that by the time you made the great gatsby, i dont know how much that cost will probably 100 million . Yes, around that. Roughly. Give or take 10 million. Im not good with numbers. Check with the studios. But you see where im going. You are spending more and more money, he will use the biggest stars from hollywood to make an enormous splash and taking years to make these movies and maybe he got a bit overwhelmed by the money, the glitz, the glamour and the power . Maybe. Sounds like that but that didnt happen. Imean, in that didnt happen. I mean, in no way does someone come at you, nobody in hollywood comes to you and says, you know that 100 year old book, the great gatsby, you know that period piece, they say the opposite. When i made strictly ballroom, and that i wanted to do a modern day shakespeare, and i was in an overall deal with fox, and their like, cut you just do strictly ballroom to, more of that . And then when i did moulin rouge, why would she want to do the gatsby. So there is no, hey, hes 100 million, go and it gatsby, theres cajoling, convincing, convincing yourself, convincing yourself, convincing others. Leonardo being a great partner in that process, toby being a great partner in that process. Dicaprio and maguire, we should say. Were talking a list hollywood people. But also artists that want to make sure theyre making Something Different and, let me just say, all that stuff you identified, imean, all that stuff you identified, i mean, gatsby, rightly, whether you like it or you dont, whether you like it or you dont, whether i made the right choices or not, its a very quite internal narration. About the very noisy time. About the very noisy time. About a very brightly coloured, noisy time so i, rightly or wrongly, exploited that. Lets have a look at one of the memorable scenes from the great c. I cannot find anyone who knows anything real about mr gatsby. Well, i dont care. He gives large parties andl he gives large parties and i like large parties, theyre so intimate. Small parties, there isnt any privacy. But if thats true, whats all this for . That, idea fellow, is the question. Are you ready . Asiam as i am watching that, im actually thinking about you, the director, and it seems to me, there is something extraordinary about the hollywood director. The amount of resource that you can call upon, the hundreds of actors and extras, the hundreds of actors and extras, the vast stage sets. There is a power to being a director that interests me. Do you think there is something potentially difficult, maybe even potentially dangerous, about the power that comes with being a hollywood . Look, i think we are living ina look, i think we are living in a world where the subject of power and the danger of power and the danger of power and the danger of power and the corruption that comes with. Ididnt that comes with. I didnt write that fantastic light about parties, i wish i did. And i didnt write absolute power corrupts absolutely but it is certainly topical right now. When you do what i do, the responsibility of power is absolutely forefront in your mind. Imean, you in your mind. I mean, you think that is the friday night dinner at bazs because that is how everyone thinks that it how i live. Iam thinks that it how i live. I am interested in the answer you just gave because you have alluded to what we have seen alluded to what we have seenin alluded to what we have seen in hollywood. In the wake of what we have learnt, people are willing to avoid Violent Crime to line their own pockets. This would be hardly one sinking is about. If thou that there are some in very sick at the heart of hollywood. I didnt. In very sick at the heart of hollywood. Ididnt. Harvey had strictly ballroom. At the start, i had a powerplay issue with him over the way he handled strictly ballroom. I think where you are going is this i do think, when i am directing, the big question marks in the entrance of the entertainment world, but it is notjust entertainment, we are seeing it everywhere, everywhere paller said. What i am very focused on is that when you try to make something. Who is an attractive . You have your attractions. But in the space, the fear and liberty of performers, the power that you have, but also your job is to remove that fear. It is called playacting. They are players. You are meant to help them be playful. Yes, work, but to take away their fear playful. Yes, work, but to take away theirfear and to playful. Yes, work, but to take away their fear and to play. Playful. Yes, work, but to take away theirfear and to play. If, in any way, you are muddying the waters with your own politics or own sexual desire, and all that, then you are corrupting the art itself. And obviously it is wrong. I mean, it is, you know, a profound misuse of power, and i think we are seeing is is probably something, let mejump right in there and say i think it is bigger than that. I think we are sitting in a moment where the tectonic plates of history a squeeze on like this, and the old period, and they dontjust mean old guys, but i mean the world has its nails and is trying to claw things back to make things the way they are. To quote gatsby, you cannot repeat the fast. The fact the past. I think there is an old school of thought. Are you part of that . Pfft, no were you changing the way you were . Are you part of that . Pfft, no were you changing the way you were . |j are you part of that . Pfft, no were you changing the way you were . I can honestly tell you that when i am in the room, i am so worried about making it work. I think is myjob to ta ke making it work. I think is myjob to take on everybody elsefear. How i feel about somebody when i am anonymous and bittermann street, i just cant feel like that about a cast and crew member member. I am just too completely responsive to make sure that everyone does their best. Meet them on the street. You just talk about our age group and ageing, and a new generation of people looking to do things in different ways. Just one quick question about your future, and your intent. You did make one netflix kind of box set style Big Budget Television series, and it didnt get recommissioned. Did you see yourself moving more into television . That is where a lot of the money and creativity is, but in your mind, are you a movie maker . We could have done another season. It cost an awful lot of money, though. Too yes. That reason, it required me to be at the centre of it. Contractually, i had a ready made arrangements whereby i would creativity some wales. Ijust wondered whereby i would creativity some wales. I just wondered whether you needed a big screen, notjust the small screen. Somewhere else. Needed a big screen, notjust the small screen. Somewhere elselj dont see myself as a film maker, television maker, music maker, i have worked at a hotel, we have made stuff. Ideas and storytelling. Impacting on culture. There are 72nd record. It is not like arming this is sadly that might sound arrogant, but we need something. Is sadly that might sound arrogant, but we need somethinglj is sadly that might sound arrogant, but we need something. I want to bring you do this because it raises a lot of interesting issues to be about you as a person, and that is your movie, australia, because it is unusualfor a director to your movie, australia, because it is unusual for a director to make your movie, australia, because it is unusualfor a director to make a movie so clearly about where he is from, and then entered australia, and it is epic and weeds are lot of australias recent history. It did pretty well, but some critics like that and some did not like it at all. It was a very personal to you . Totally. What was that . A love letter to a straighter . Was a crazy . To australia. None of my films in my view our complete. None of them are what i imagine to be. Ijust get on to are what i imagine to be. Ijust get ontoa are what i imagine to be. Ijust get on to a point where i think they are working there. It is a child. Are you telling me was completely finished . I dont think any of them are finished. There is an old saying that they are not finished, they ta ke that they are not finished, they take them away. But lets come back to wager that. Absolutely, we have a lwa ys to wager that. Absolutely, we have always lived around the world. Australians are great travellers. I wa nted australians are great travellers. I wanted to make sure there was an early period when my two children we re early period when my two children were connected to our homeland. That, and i also have, yes, a great love of my homeland. And it probably was, atan love of my homeland. And it probably was, at an over was a love letter, but it was definitely a way of getting into the myth, but also the fa cts. Getting into the myth, but also the facts. One of the things about the strait, by the way, and whether this is good or not, this is the biggest i have ever had in europe. It was number one for five weeks in spain. And i was a surprise, even me. It had a different light in the us can it went nowhere. It has things in it, including the massive injustice done to the Aboriginal Peoples of australia. Yes, and might say, and i have never said this, and ifeel i should, i remembered germaine greer, and she spoke i mean, i never push back on staff, but of course, we did the research, and of course we lived it. And everything there is a justifiable reference to everything ina justifiable reference to everything in a movie. And when the press and jermaine grey came out and attacked an actual stolen generation academic, aboriginal academic, an actual stolen generation academic, aboriginalacademic, i just thought, like, you know, iwill let time and so that. Germaine greer. But nothing we do we research lightly. But it good of my head was that the arc of your career to you away from australia to the united states, where you spend most of your time. But in a funny way, you could make an argument that australia is moving towards you. I dont mean geographically commedia, australia. I dont mean geographically. Come out here, australia. But recently we have seen the vote on gay marriage. Do you see your australia becoming more tolera nt your australia becoming more tolerant and open . First of all, for the first time i have not been back in my own country for maybe 18 months or longer. I go back at christmas. It is very important. I think flashes of lightning. The country has always had tremendous the openhearted vision, but it also pulls it back into a sort of conservatism and jostles between the two things. So i got great. I am not ina two things. So i got great. I am not in a position to speak with great information. I go back to reconnect. But i think australia and australians, they really believe in afairgo, and australians, they really believe in a fair go, and they are really openhearted. And i am looking forward to be energised by the positive uplift. They last month a question, a lot of people, critics, feel that your first movie was your best. Do you think your best movie is yet to be made . I think probably mickjagger has the same problem with satisfaction. It is like, you know, and i i think, to as your question, and i am not good at staying on track was in my movies, right . There is a question is you have to believe it. Otherwise, dont do it. Sometimes i think, oh, you know, but recently ive been thinking i would like to do at least one more. And see if i could make it better. A great way to end. Baz luhrmann, thank you for being on hardtalk i really enjoyed it. Thanks very much. Hello there. We have heavy rain, gales, and even snow in the forecast for the next few days. The coldest air is still waiting in the wings. We have several areas of low pressure all pushing up from the south west, bringing these weather fronts and, in turn, rain. So, having seen the rain ease off overnight, it will be turning wetter by the morning. Mild to the south. Cold air perhaps beginning to arrive in the north of the uk. Lets head into the morning for the rush hour. For southern england, it might be dry. Midlands and east anglia as well. Windy by the morning. A mild side to the day. Then back into the rain across wales, especially to the north west of wales, with rain for the north of england, the north west in particular. This rain in ireland could become heavy and arrive in the south west and south of scotland. Then a slice of dry weather before we are back into rain in the far north of scotland. This area are to be as much as 100 millimetres of rainfall in by the end of the day over the hills, south west island, and north west wales. Across much of england and wales, could be some rain and cold air across the north of scotland. This rain still around in the evening, with strong winds. Some squalls are moving eastwards a cross england and wales. Then in the cold air we start to see some snow falling overnight in scotland. Particularly northern parts of scotland. Further south, much milder, but still windy. The winds ease down on thursday, and this snow continues for a while, even to some lower levels in northern scotland, too, before easing through the day. Some bands of showers pushing southwards, with sunshine in between. Still pretty mild, actually, 13 or 1a degrees in the south east. Colder for scotland and Northern Ireland and the north of england, too. Heading into friday, uncertainty about the position of this area of low pressure. This is probably the of those low pressure centres moving from the south west. The rain more likely across southern england for a while on friday. This could be the last of the milder air, if you like, because colder air that is in the north and north west will come sweeping its way southwards byjust in time for the weekend. You may well be dry for much of the weekend. Could be some sunshine, too, but there will be showers, particularly in the north west of the uk, and those showers notjust of rain but possibly hail, sleet, and snow. Im Sharanjit Leyl in singapore, the headlines zimbabwe celebrates as the countrys president of 37 years, robert mugabe, resigns. Today is victory. Its victory in our hearts, its victory for our children. Robert mugabes surprise resignation announcement was made by letterjust as proceedings to impeach him were getting started. Im Babita Sharma in london. Also in the programme, the Ruling Zanu Pf Party say emmerson mnangagwa, the man sacked as Vice President , will be sworn in as mugabes replacement. And in other news, north koreas shipping operations and some chinese firms are targeted in the latest us sanctions against pyongyang