Couturist, Jean Paul Gaultier, who is known as the enfant terrible of the fashion world for his witty and daring designs. Now an exhibition of his best known works is opening here at the barbican in london. But how far do his designs like the cone shaped bra and corset dresses help contribute to the sexual objectification of women . Jean paul gaultier, welcome to hardtalk. Thank you. What do you think of the label, the . Enfant terrible of the fashion world . , about you, now you are in your early 6057 i should say that now you cant say that, i am the ex enfant terrible. I am now the old man terrible of french fashion still, a little. You dont mind it. You were never actually, strangely enough, formally trained in design. You sent some pictures. Some sketches. Exactly. I didnt go to school. To cardin, on the day i was 18 years old. I sent the pictures on the day of my 18 years old. Pierre cardin called at the house, my mother, and said, . I want to see him. . When i came back she said, . You have to go to see cardin. 7 i asked her to come with me because i was so frightened to go and meet him. He said, . How many days can you work . 7 i was still finishing my studies. I said three afternoons. Say, 0k, work. An amazing break. Laurent didnt get back to you. You stayed for a short time with Pierre Cardin and then you joined jacques esterel. A small couture house, very different from Pierre Cardin. This was all in the 19705. After, i went tojean patou, a bigger, old house. It was only the perfumes doing things, but the collection. Even representing a show, but it was not selling. There was only one customer. We had to make special sketches for her. But a very famous name. You said you were almost chameleon like when you were there, trying to second guess what kind of designs they wanted. When did you find your own kind of style . I appreciated the chance to be an assistant, because for cardin, it was easy because he has a strong style. So i have to work to his style. It was the beginning of the 70s. He was presenting his shows. He was doing furniture. He even asked me to do furniture, which i never expected to sketch. Anyway, after i left there. After i came back to come again working for Pierre Cardin, i started my own collection in 1976. Little by little, i find what is my style. I should say my obsession, more than anything. You quickly became known for an edgy, street kind of fashion, punk, that kind of thing. Are you comfortable with being known as the person who has these kinds of designs as their signature . Definitely, i am proud of it. I must say that i have been inspired more by the street, the streets of london, than by the jet set. In the mid 70s, the jet set was wearing very boring clothes which were not totally inspiring. For me, i was preparing to go to the street and see some people who are dressing in a more modern way. Almost punk like. I was influenced by punk, of course. It was something absolutely fabulous and very, like, rebellious. I was a little lets say rebellious against french fashion. It was very this is chic, this is not chic. There was no sense of humour. In london it was completely the opposite. Even not street people, they were more. With eccentricity, and more like speaking through their clothes. One thing you really have become famous for, and you started this design on your teddy bear, which features in this exhibition, is the cone bra, the very pointed bra. A long time before i did it for madonna. You did that for the blonde ambition tour of madonna in 1990. The pointed bra, the corset, the bodice it is really. You pioneered underwear as outerwear. A profile of you in the new yorker at the time said you unleashed a lot of debate about whether this was empowering or enslaving women. Which was it for you . For me it was empowering, because i come from a generation after the womens lib, which means a woman, they burn their bra. Ok, i think its good, because always me, i have in mind the values that women are stronger than men. For me, it is more clever. Do you think a lot of people might have said, look, the corset, its very restrictive, it is redolent of a past era . Definitely it is. So why bring it back . The big difference is i proposed the woman to choose if they want to wear it themselves. Not because they are obliged, but because they like it. But its uncomfortable. Some people do a lot of things that are uncomfortable. Would you wear a corset like that . Definitely. I should now, but not especially at that time for example, i bleached my hair during 20 years. I have no more hair almost because of that. I suffered to have the blonde hair. I appreciate that you say that you see women as the stronger sex and so on, but nevertheless, you said once you saw a woman wearing lacy bra under a chaneljacket and thats all she was wearing. Do you not think that might contribute to the sexual objectification of women . Yes, apparently, but its not at all in the outfit because the women are changing around me. I am a reflection of what was changing. It must be symbolised by madonna, which was a very strong woman. Madonna shows it doesnt exist. But she is a big superstar. What if a young woman wears the underwear as outerwear . It might encourage predatory male sexual attention. First, when they wear the miniskirt, people said it was a prostitute. After, when they wear the trouser, they said they were ridiculous because they wanted to be more like a man. It was showing in some way the fact if they wanted to have trousers, they had to show that they were like man. It is showing they have to pretend to be. To make like a carnival, like a man. The woman after, then. Maybe because they dream about photos of beautiful, glamorous women who were sexy and they want to be like that. It doesnt mean that i am a slut or whatever. Do you think you are trying to make a statement about gender or sexuality . You have men dressed in a very feminine way, women in masculine attire. Youve made the male pinstripe suit very popular with women. Nicolas ghesquiere, the creative director of Louis Vuitton said Jean Paul Gaultier changed so many things in the creative process, sexuality and fashion. Was that your aim . I think i contributed to it. To say that i changed the view of the woman. I should say that people have done that before. Yves saint laurent, he put women in suits. Mixing masculinity and femininity is what i did. Power and subjection, but as a choice. For men, i think i did a little more because my first collection for men was called the male object. Like the woman. When i was an adolescent i was very shocked because i was surrounded by my mother, my grandmother, they were very nice and clever. Afterwards i had some girlfriends who were clever as well. They knew what they wanted. But you are more than that. You bring sexuality into fashion. You use bondage, latex. Youve made that a part of your style, and i suppose thats what we mean by bringing sexuality into fashion. Youve mentioned madonna, you say you were really fascinated by her. How important is a muse to you as a designer . It is super important. I think i became a designer because of a movie i saw on tv, a movie from the 71105, when i was not born, but i saw it in black and white. That movie was speaking about when a designer became crazy and in love with his muse. When i looked at it again, i say, . I want to do the same job as was doing in the movie. I want to be like him. . I think he has a muse. He changed his collection. It became beautiful because he was in love with her. For me, it was normal. It was to make fashion, a fashion show, because in the movie there was a fashion show. You were inspired by that. I have to ask you this, because in april 2012, you had a show and you sent in a parade of Amy Winehouse lookalikes six months after she died. Herfather said that was in bad taste. He said, we are still grieving for her loss. Why did you do that . I dont think at all it was bad taste. My conviction, because i love her, i adore her. You never met her, did you . I never did, i went to see the only show she did in paris. I am shy, even if i dont look that shy, i saw her, she was such an enormous star that i didnt go after her to say hello. I love her voice, his style of music but also her look. She has a look a little. She has a spirit. I was influenced by the 505. My looks in the 80s were inspired by the 505. The beehive hair and the heavy eyeliner. And also corsetry and tight stilettos, etc. It was a mix. Make it more like a punk, so it was exactly. Exactly in the same spirit of what i did in the 80s. Also for me, she was a fashion icon. She was the only one going against fashion, copying nobody. So i respected that. You liked her style. We talked about how you like street fashion, and your exhibition at the barbican is called from the sidewalk to the catwalk. Yet you have worked with very couture name, like hermes. How do you reconcile your edgy, street fashion and yet work in a very conventional house like that . Isnt it a bit of a contradiction . Not at all. It was a complete contradiction at the beginning. Maybe when i started my first collection in 76, maybe hermes was the opposite of myself, which i didnt like. I am coming from a suburb of paris where, to be honest, there were not very many women wearing a kelly bag. So you went to hermes in the early 20005. So yes, i went there. And i started to make the collection before, with was one ex of my assistants, a very talented designer. But how do you reconcile being an enfant terrible and working with a conventional house like that, doing the haute couture . It was very interesting, like a challenge for me. For example, i was the opposite. Letter by letter, i did haute couture. But for me, i have to mix my style, which means my gaultier style, lets say, to hermes. But first i had to work for hermes, and make the Little Things i could bring to it. But in this day and age, who can afford the real haute couture, when one dress can cost 50,000 euros . Youre talking about maybe a couple of thousand women globally, who might send a private plane and say, let me see your latest collection, make me a dress like that. But very few people can afford it. When i started, i saw only haute couture on tv, again. I saw the image of hate couture, so it was a dream. And at one moment, when i was not doing dior, i wanted a little studio for myself. I will put that money to make my own haute couture. I made it only one time. But in reality, i sold one outfit to nicole kidman, and another one to a woman with a dress. That is just behind you, the one with the sailor stripes. Another signature dress. For a wedding. But it does not make money, does it . It doesnt make money, that really high haute couture . It does not make so much money. But i should say that in some ways, it is an incredible idea. I made a collection a long time ago, which was more open to more people. In reality, to make couture, its interesting because you can be experimental about fabric and techniques. But you need to sell to the masses and your late partner, francis menuge, who tragically died in 1990 of aids an aids related illness, really encouraged you to build your empire, and to make money, to go into fragrance, and that kind of thing. You owe him a great deal. Definitely, it was fabulous. He was absolutely fabulous, and very creative, and very clever. And more of a businessman than me, i admit. He told me before he died, because he was thinking about living still, he said we should do haute couture, and i said, why . And he said, yes, but you know, its good, for the luxury. I didnt do it to create an empire, but i made perfume, which was good for going on, and can help. But i never wanted to create an empire for myself. Only to make my collection of nice clothes that people appreciate. But profitability is important. And yet there is a bit of a contradiction, because when you were advertising for models for one show, you said conventionally pretty models need not apply. And you are famous for using models of all shapes, sizes, colours, ages, older people, and all that kind of thing. And yet you also managed to sell your product. How do you manage to do that . Most people, when they look at magazines, they do not want to see themselves. They want to see something that is desirable, that is perfection. But i think many people can open their minds to see that there is not only one type of beauty. When i started, there were only swedish models that were in fashion, in the beginning of the 705. So i remember that one girl came, she came from america and she was black, and she had bleached hair. And i found her fabulous, and wanted her make the show. But the artistic director said, no, no, you know the american people, they are racist, they will not appreciate it. But i said, my god, i do not care. And i said, there are no clients, no american clients, no french clients, so why not . So i always try to show different beauty. And in my show, myself, i always choose the models. I once chose an algerian model, and she was completely, completely. She had a different attitude and look, very modern. For me, she was perfect. In some ways, my only pretension is to be sure of what i like about people that impressed me. When i say what i find beautiful, even if some people do not like their beauty, for me its more interesting, and i insist. Sure, but youre not changing things. It has been said that what sells is, broadly speaking, a middle view of what beauty is. And people say actually the obsession with zero size models is worse than it was in the 1980s, when you had supermodels like Cindy Crawford and models that weren . T stick thin. And at that time in the 80s, i said the same. In fashion, things are coming and going back. It will come back. I do not say that to be with more shape is the best, and to have no shape is the worst, and vice versa. I do not say that. I think it is a different type of beauty. But your message is not getting through. Kirsty clements, the australian vogue editor, says that we still have stylists and editors who for some reason seem to prefer models to be young, coltish, six foot tall, and built like a prepubescent boy. To be honest, i must say that is not what i think. I think there is a taboo about getting old. Like there is no beauty to be old. It is wrong, completely wrong. How can i find that to be fat and old is ugly, in the fact that my grandmother was absolutely fabulous, and she loved me, and she was fantastically beautiful, for me . So of course, now, i want to represent that. There are some people who can be old and i always present, not in every show, but some people that are beautiful and are old. And some fat people. I used one model. But why do you think it is still like this . I should say that nathalie bondil, the director of the Montreal Museum of fine arts, who was responsible for persuading you to have this exhibition, she says that with globalisation of aesthetic standards, growing numbers are being exposed to the tyrannical obsession of retouched photos, displaying unreal bodies. Asian eyes, western eyes, skin whitened, wrinkles smoothed away as if they are politically incorrect. Why is the world of fashion like this . It has always been crazy. I think what i should say is that i have nothing but criticism about it. The only critique i have about it is i think the notion of only one kind of fashion should not exist anymore. I mean, like, now we are there is a different morphology of people. Now all the world is travelling, and we see a different type of beauty, ethnic, and we can appreciate it. I think it is changing little by little. I think if you look at the young, they are more open minded, maybe, than the ones that are not that young. I must put it to you, because the daughter of the italian designer emilio pucci has said that italy needs Young Designers who are going to generate excitement and create new categories of product. The problem in italy is that you have designers over the age of 70 who are Still Holding onto their position. Is it time for an older generation of designers to make way for the Younger Generation . Well, firstly, i am not 70 but i must say that im sure there is a place for the young ones, definitely. Already, i must say that i feel incredible that i am still here. Honestly, when i see the designers of my generation, a lot of change of life. Even my assistant, who was a belgian designer and came out in the . 90s, he quit, and he is some years younger than me. So i think, of course, it will come around. I was not making you 70, but finally and briefly, you have this exhibition of your work, this is the eighth venue for it. Are you a living designer, changing all the time, or do your pieces belong in a museum . I think that in some ways it does not belong in a museum. By the fact that, when i see young that there are some Young Designers that are very much inspired by the old clothes that i did, when i see that they are some things that you could wear now, i feel very comfortable in that. I think that is a good thing, but in reality, it is still going when i retire, maybe i will still continue. So thats excellent. Jean paul gaultier, thank you very much for coming on the programme. The skies across Northern Britain cleared upjust in time for a spectacular light show. We have had some pretty great pictures of the Aurora Borealis coming in. One from the outer hebrides. I love this green one from argyll and bute. A stunning one here from cumbria as well. A lot of clear skies across the northern uk. That means there is going to be a touch of frost. Chilly air out there right now, but not everywhere. Across east anglia and the south east, we have that weather front, moving across the uk during tuesday, which has ended up across east anglia and the south east. For norwich and london, temperatures around four, five, six degrees, those sorts of values. For the rest of the uk, out in the countryside, it could be as low as minus four degrees. Mist and fog around as well, but generally speaking, lots of clear weather. Anglia and the south east could be gloomy and drizzly in the morning. The weather will improve here, but it will take time for that cloud to break up. The rest of the country, beautiful and sunny. Light winds, crisp, fresh, misty and places. Carlisle still around freezing at eight oclock. This is the next area of rain that is moving into the outer hebrides. Probably by the time we get to the morning that will nudge on. Wet and windy again, it will reach Northern Ireland eventually. Many areas of england, you can see that beautiful sunshine. On wednesday, still a bit of cloud left over in east anglia and the south east. Lets look at wednesday night. This entire weather front needs to move across the uk, wednesday night into thursday. Again, cloud and light rain around. Wednesday night will not be cold. Frost free across the uk. Thursday afternoon, some sunshine around as well, not a bad day, not a perfect day either. 0verall, not looking too bad. Towards the end of the week it will be quite unsettled. The winds will be strong across northern areas. Lots of isobars here. 0ne weather front moving through, and another one on friday, bringing rainfall to the south. So friday will be wet. Saturday, should be out of the way. And we are in the clear. The thinking is that after an unsettled end to the week the weekend will be bright and breezy with showers. But it is going to feel on the chilly side. Goodnight. This is newsday. Im babita sharma, in london. The headlines President Trump urges north korea to do a deal over its nuclear programme. Well be live in seoul, as he prepares to deliver a key speech. The prince and the paradise papers. Charles is accused of a conflict of interest, with offshore investments in bermuda that stood to gain from his private campaigning. Im sharanjit leyl, in singapore. Also in the programme police say the gunman who killed 26 people in texas escaped from a Mental Hospital in 2012. Hed made a number of death threats. And the changing face of British Fashion how vogue magazines new editor is striking a different pose
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