Transcripts For BBCNEWS Newsnight 20170925

The pundits whove written her off countless times, not least because of the migration crisis. But its now the delayed effect of those 1. 4 million new arrivals, that has played its role in what some commentators here are calling a political earthquake. For in that building just beyond the brandenburg gate, the bundestag, orfederal parliament there will now be 94 members belonging to a far right party for the First Time Since the red army batted its way into the city and that was called the reichstag. The alternative fur deutschland or afd won nearly 13 of the vote, but in many places including bavaria in the south and the former east germany it was much higher than that. Ive been deep into that formerly communist territory to discover what people make of the election result. My report does include flash photography. Behind the afds strong showing is a dose of despair sprinkled with a leavening of anger. The dynamics of populism, familiar from elsewhere, have some specifically german dimensions. In what was the communist east, the party won three districts and came second across a swathe of others. Christa has been running this cafe for nearly 20 years. She did not vote afd and finds their rise worrying but the reasons for it come as no surprise. Around frankfurt right on the border with poland, immigration touches a nerve. And the afds answer to germanys demographic decline, exhorting people to have children, has echoes of the 1930s and the communist era. At the local Party Headquarters, nobody was in after last nights celebrations. We have spoken to people who voted for the afd but man who would go on camera. None who would go on camera. However the grievances they cited are pretty similar to those you sure across the former east germany. They chime in with the afds messages islam does not belong in germany. This one is an anti eu one, our land, our rules. And finally, work has to be worthwhile. The message that plays on peoples feelings that there are not enough jobs here and those that are here are pretty rubbish. In berlin last night the Party Faithful were in exuberant mood when the exit polls were published. But in the flush of victory its first problems have emerged with the party chair walking out this morning, part of a long simmering dispute between moderates and hardliners. They are not Nigel Farages sort of good old boys, they are worse than that, something more sinister. Not wanting black people as neighbours. Being proud of germanys achievements in world war ii. And when you confront them, they say, we didnt mean it like that. We are reallyjust bothered that these subjects are not discussed in parliament. It is this 2 faced quality. The mood was less ebullient at Angela Merkels Party Headquarters last night, that is not to say that his success in securing a fourth term as chancellor did not prompt some celebratory toast. Her success. But the results also bought shocks. This was intended as a celebration and it has turned into a bit more of a wake. Talking to party workers, they have said, no, we were expecting the far right party to do well because of the polls leading up to today. What has hit them harder has been the cdus share of the vote falling well below the symbolic 55 that was important to them. 3596. That will make Coalition Building harder and ultimately also it prompts questions about the future of Angela Merkel. So now the chancellor has to begin the seduction of unlikely political bedfellows required to build a viable coalition. I think its going to be very difficult. To bring them together will require skill of an order that perhaps Angela Merkel is the only one able to mobilise in europe. And as the comings and goings of coalition negotiators begin, question follows question. Notjust how will the smaller parties deliver their voters to their promised destinations, be that on green issues or a liberal platform but also about the chancellors ability to manage the more complex dynamics of this new government. Shes between a rock and a hard place. The point is, however, that the people within her own party and grouping like for instance the politician in bavaria who wants to move to the right, theyve been clobbered even worse in the election. So wheres the challenge coming from within her party . There is nothing there. For the german mainstream the election brings relief that the country remains on the right track. But Angela Merkel has been diminished by this vote and ask her fourth term gets the questions will begin about the successor might be, how they might hold the reins in german politics. Well, in the immediate aftermath of the election as the results were still coming in i caught up at Party Headquarters with one of germanys most powerful men. Angela merkels chief of staff, peter altmaier. He now faces what could be months of Coalition Negotiations at home, the thorny issue of brexit and a bundestag full of nationalist populist mps for the first time. I asked him whether the result was disappointing for the cdu. We are disappointed to the extent that we have lost more percentages than expected. But we are very pleased and satisfied that this is a clear mandate to form the next german government. Some people are talking about the so called Jamaica Coalition with the centrist fdp and the greens. Is it doable . I believe that every type of coalition will be a difficult choice because the socialists have lost so much votes, they have only left 20 . The green party and the liberal party have not so much common ground. But we have all to take our responsibility. And we cannot afford month and month of negotiating without coming to conclusions. During this process you say even by a fairly optimistic or positive outlook, a couple of months, some people say it could be several, it could even be january. What happens to policy and particularly from a uk perspective the german position on brexit . The german position on brexit is very clear. We want a reasonable result for both sides. And we are very, not only active, but we can take any decision that is required as soon as we know the british proposals. As soon as we know the position of our european partners. You say you want to know more about the british position. But of course Prime Minister may was trying to give that on friday in florence. She did give some concrete proposals. How do you assess that speech . First of all i think it is not my role to comment on Prime Ministers speeches. We are very much interested in reading concrete papers and proposals because, as you have perhaps realised, these brexit negotiations are awful, a complicated mess. And what we need are concrete solutions in the interests of our citizens, british citizens, european citizens as well. We have to discuss money and we have to discuss the future relationship. I consider the idea of transitional periods an interesting one but it all depends on the details, the details are key. Lastly, on the question of how is parliamentary politics going to play out, now you have a far right party in the German Parliament for the First Time Since the war. Will it change the atmosphere of politics in this country . I dont believe it. We have seen other new parties in parliament before, now for the first time it is a far right party. That is regrettable but it is a kind of normalisation with regard to other european countries. When you look at france, when you look at the netherlands, belgium and italy, you have this types of party everywhere, and in most of the cases they have twice as many votes as our far right party has got in this election. And that means for all of us, we have to be very conscious, we have to make clear that our principles, our values, are not negotiable, and we will not form any kind of government or coalition with this party. Peter altmaier, it is very hot and very noisy in here. Thank you so much. Thank you and good evening. Julia ebner is with the institute for strategic dialogue. She has written about nationalist published movements across europe. Can i pick up a point from peter altmaier. He talks about the arrival of the afd being normalisation in german politics, is that right or is it something more sensitive. I think so. I think the arrival of this party has signalled the normalisation of far right parties that was not seen in the post war period. I think that is the most worrying part about this, the afd has managed to fill a vacuum between the very extreme fringe, membership came at a social cost, and the political establishment that was considered politically over correct. To what extent do you think they learned this, in the sense of running an Effective Campaign across all platforms do you think they earned this . It is clear they have managed much better than other parties to pick up people where they are coming from, to address legitimate grievances about the immigration crisis. Also they ran an incredible Online Campaign that has worked. There hasnt been anything challenged by the mainstream political parties. They brought nearlyi million more voters to the polls apparently. Thats correct. I would say some of the tactics they applied almost a bit over the top. I think theyve managed to manipulate some of the voters from other filter bubbles into voting for the afd and that is something we saw in their very targeted campaigns. Thank you very much, julia. Coming here over the past couple of yea rs, coming here over the past couple of years, one of the things that has been clear to me is that the alternative for deutschland grew by shifting its political ground. Initially, they were very strong on theissue initially, they were very strong on the issue of greek debt, the euro, ringing back the deutsche mark. They we re ringing back the deutsche mark. They were a party of technocrats. Of course, the migration crisis gave them new avenues. To discuss those, im joined by the deputy leader, beatrix von storch. Your deputy chairman walked out saying the party was anarchic. Hard to argue with that. We were not happy about this but this one. This is one leaving, we have seen others leaving, i dont think there are many to follow and we keep track, weve got a huge responsibility now because with 5 million voters give their votes to us because they want to have a change on political issues. Is your party mature enough to deal with that platform . Youve got all sorts of people in there, some of whom, with statements very different to that of a national platform. We are a young party, we are making mistakes, that is very clear. We were founded four years ago, we are going through a process, but we have a clear purpose, why were here. There is a clear reason why people are us into the parliament. There is a clear reason why people are voting us into the parliament. There are major topics not tackled by the government. Not only migrants and in islam, but also, this is something people do not see their opinion represented on anymore. One of the things the chairwoman said as she went was she wanted to get involved in the practical business of government. Your leader has said more or less we are here to give a clearer opposition, to disrupt. Are you interested in forming coalitions or are you simply here to put those agenda items on the platform and cause noise . We will cause noise because we are putting those issues on the platform but it is clear that in some time we want to be part of a government. Now its very clear that we are the opposition voice. We are not favouring letting in millions of Illegal Migrants into our country, we are not in favour of islamisation. We dont want ever closer union. We saw that poster today about islam. It says islam does not belong in germany. How can you call yourself a patriotic german and Say Something that runs counter to the constitution which guarantees freedom of belief . Freedom of belief is very clear, but islam in most interpretations is claiming political power because sharia law is not part of our. But the poster is not about sharia law. It says islam doesnt belong in germany. We would want them to distance themselves from sharia law and everything would be fine. But they are not doing so. It does not fit with us. We have a separation between the state and religion and this is not something that exists in islam. It is not only regulating the personal belief but also claiming political power. This is not what goes together with our values. One thing that has been said is germany has a serious demographic problem. The numbers will decline inexorably without it. Your answer is, make babies. The posters are in some ways facetious and funny. Are you really advocating people make babies for germany . It reminds me of the 1940s. Germany is not the only country with a demographic problem. You can take one, two, 4 million migrants and try to solve your problems with them. We dont want that. We think this is causing problems. Thank you forjoining us. That is all from us in berlin. Kirsty wark is at the Labour Party Conference in brighton. Here in brighton, the labour leadership wanted to concentrate on the big announcements which confirm, if confirmation were needed, thatJeremy Corbyn has stamped his desert boots on blairism, and crushed it into the ground. Statism is back with a vengeance. First, nationalisation. Rail, followed by water followed by energy, and then the shadow chancellor announced the death knell of pfi, another big idea embraced by the blair government to ensure that hospitals and schools were built ahead of schedule. There will be no new pfis, and a Labour Government would apparently buy some of the exisitng contracts back, though no price tag was mentioned. There was wild enthusiasm from the delegates, in marked contrast to the atmosphere in the hall during the mornings contributions on brexit, a debate which was deeply divided. But there was no vote, that had been finagled away by the conference arrangements committee. Heres our political editor, nick watt. This is a party on the move after a momentous battle for the soul of labour. Two years after he startled the british establishment with victory in his First Leadership contest, Jeremy Corbyn has secured almost complete command of the labour party. The Labour Movement rules to its feet as John Mcdonnell outlined a programme of Government Intervention that would have been laughed out of court recently. The biggest idea was a plan to dismantle pfi, which has been used by labour and tory governments to fund public services. We will put an end to this scandal and reduce the cost to the taxpayers. Weve pledged there will be no new pfi deals and we will go further. It is what youve been calling for. We will bring existing pfi contracts back in house. We are bringing them back heartfelt applause forJohn Mcdonnell. Hes taking Coal Industries back into public control and dismantling pfi. The treatment for decades about taking control. This marked the moment when theyve finally achieved the historic goal. One of the architects of the programme was encouraged because he says the original plan was flawed. The trouble as it went into hospitals and there is no income flow. Bankers will loan you money as long as they have that. That is not the same in hospitals and my fear was that they would Start Building and then start running and then we got a situation of high Interest Rates and high profits and a massive problem with huge debt on the health service. That so problem john suggested himself and quite rightly so. Thats a problem. Labour veterans feel they have their party back. Im telling you, the party and the leadership is alive. Youve dreamt for decades to hear this, taking them back. And now it is as natural as night following day. It is so simple and that is what nye bevan and Clement Attlee did in 1945. Do you know what the end of that five year period was . Unemployment was down to 2. 2 . The country was skint and yet somehow or other they did all those wonderful things including education, free for all from the cradle to grave. Youre seeing an absolute rejection by so many people, not only in the uk but across europe, a position whereby people have rejected austerity. People are fed up with austerity and labour offer an alternative. Dotted around the lanes and alleys of brighton, the korbin supporting Momentum Group are in their own conference at a series of venues. Now there has been a legitimisation of the movement we are focusing on having those key conversations, labour is potentially on the brink of government, what do we want to live in . This is a labour conference which means our split is never far away. Pro europeans, including some mps who are notJeremy Corbyns largest fans, were furious when they were blocked from staging a vote to change party policy in favour of membership of the european Single Market after brexit. I want to congratulate conference, yesterday you voted away your chance to remain in the Single Market, to stay in the eu. You voted away your chance to stop this disastrous brexit. This administration, we are not even an administration, we are the opposition, we will be remembered as the opposition that let the tories do they want with brexit. Corbyn supporters dismissed the critics on the grounds that they are using brexit to attack a leader Whose Authority they will never accept. The pro europeans who once held sway are a diminished force here in brighton. But they still have numbers in parliament. Labour is sailing into a new era on a gentle sea breeze. For now, the tables have been turned. Figures who once sat in the mainstream swap places on the margins with corbyn supporters. Nick and chris cook are here our policy editor. We will with pfi. How big a deal is this . Intellectually it shows the state coming back. It is a horribly complicated idea. John mcdonnell has said he will name a price and the people who own these contracts will be bought out. Thinking of the political context, it will be a time when we will be trying to bring in foreign investment, show that we are a nice place to put your money. My strong suspicion is he will want to be consensual about this which means dealing with the thousands of people who have invested in these contracts. It will cost a lot. How much will it cost . We know the total value is about £60 billion. The contracts it will cost that, it will cost less. To understand why, we have cooked up a hypothetical. Imagine we had a hospital where they are paying £5 million a yearfor 20 years to have a company put up and maintain a building. £100 million in total. There are a lot of ways to structure a buyout but we need to make sure we cover the cost of the building. In our case, that is £50 million. Then we need to cover the profit margin the contract are expected. £15 million. Buying out our fictional £100 Million Contract might actually cost £65 million but the state will then actually have to run that building. So what that tells you is, weve made up that example but whether it is a project resurfacing roads running hospitals, those little bits we put in there will change dramatically. Each one will be totally different. Some contracts are overpriced. Some are underpriced. Working out how much this would cost would take years. Lets look ahead to tomorrow. What is the big day . Asl as i said in my film and as you are saying is this conference shows us this is definitively jeremy saying is this conference shows us this is definitivelyJeremy Corbyns party and tomorrow we will see the passage of two rule changes that will strengthen his control over the party. If theres a leadership contest, and were not expecting one in the future, to get on the ballot you will need 10 of support. That will increase the chance of getting a left wing candidate on the ballot. The leadership have compromised, they wanted 5 . They will expand the national committee. These are general steps ahead of bigger steps next year. Interestingly, i was talking to one long standing supporter who said, this sounds like a stitch up from the elite and all these new members joined because they want to change from the bottom. But they said at least it is a step in the right direction. Normally we hear from the leader on tuesday but they changed that . The electrifying moment last year was tom watsons speech. Well get his speech tomorrow. Last year afterJeremy Corbyn one that contest, year afterJeremy Corbyn one that co ntest, to m year afterJeremy Corbyn one that contest, tom watson said we cant carry on trashing tony blair and gordon brown, thats not how you win an election. Very different speech tomorrow. Im told it will be like sadiq khan when he praised Jeremy Corbyn for that election win. We will hear from tom watson that corbyn defied expectations. He didnt win the election but he did really well. And he will save momentum is behind labour in large pa rt momentum is behind labour in large part because of jeremy momentum is behind labour in large part because ofJeremy Corbyns appeal the will say. Thank you both indeed. One of the trickiest issues, because of the bearing of teeth is brexit. Emily thornberry, i caught up with her earlier today. Emily thornberry, former labour leadership candidate, said the failure to have a vote on brexit policy and a proper debate was a slap in the face for democracy. Yeah. Its exactly the opposite. So what happens is the constituency parties put in various motions and then the delegates vote on what it is that they want to have a debate and vote on. We had a debate in the hall this morning on Foreign Policy and there was a lot of discussion about brexit. And deep divisions over brexit. But there wasnt a vote. But the point is that the delegates decided what we would vote on. But part of the way the delegates came to that decision was, as you know, an e mail from momentum on saturday. Urging people to vote, to specify in a certain order what the debate should be, leaving brexit way down the line. Thats not grass roots freedom, is it . Well yes it is, of course, have you ever met a Labour Party Member . Have you ever tried to tell them what to do . They will do what they think is the best thing to do and they want to vote on things feel they can make a contribution and where a vote will make a difference. And it may well be, and i hope this is the case, that the majority of delegates in fact feel that labour has a position which is important and certainly in contrast to the governments and that we do not need to be voting on specific elements of that policy 110w. You would like to see a snap election in even a few months. So you would then be, if you won, you would be the party of government. So lets go through a few things. Are you in favour of staying in the Single Market . I think that what we should be doing is, we should be putting the interests of the economy first and foremost. And the safety and security of our citizens. You could say that any time, any day. No, no no no. We have said that we are not sweeping anything off the table because this is a negotiation. This is a negotiation. Now nobody pretends that the referendum was not, and an important part of that was immigration. And nobody pretends that there is not a problem with staying in the Single Market if the interpretation of freedom of movement is as it has been until now. So you therefore rule out any situation where you stay in the Single Market if that means Free Movement. Thats absolutely out . Nothing is being swept off the table. But what we are saying is that we need to look again at freedom of movement. We need to make sure we have fair rules and manage migration and we will be negotiating with the European Union, whereby we do need to have changes to our rules. We do need to have a clear idea of. What would you give up then . If you wanted to remain in the Single Market but corral Free Movement in some way. Youd have to give something back. You cant take everything. What would you give back . We are so many steps away from sitting at a table with the European Union and negotiating that it would be wrong at this stage for me to sit here with you, much as i would like to, and Start Talking about red lines. Remember a year ago when theresa may stood up that tory Party Conference and started spraying red lines around. She has completely boxed herself in and has not allowed herself to be able to negotiate properly for the result. I understand that. We learn these lessons. You learn these lessons but the problem is, people actually dont know what labours position is, beyond the period of transition. So for example i ask in a straightforward way, do you rule out remaining in the Single Market. We are not sweeping anything of the table and we will go into negotiations in good faith. But part of that must be taking with us the message that we got from the british people, which is, that we need to look again at the rules around migration. Jeremy corbyn said yesterday, the Single Market has within it restrictions on state aid and state spending and pressure on it. I think we need to be very careful what powers we need as a national government. Has he got a point. Yes. And the difficulty is to what extent its a realfear, and to what extent it, say, its one which was puffed up, frankly by the british civil service. When we were in government there were many times when we wanted to be able to get maximum bang for our buck. So for example if the council wanted, if they were going to take out a contract with a private contractor, we wanted to be able to say, get some apprentices, make sure you are paying them the living wage, and we were told at that point by Civil Servants that that was contrary to eu competition law. The question really is, is that true or is it a very conservative interpretation of the rules . These are the sort of things we need to look at because we do not want to hamper our ability to be able to spend state money as effectively as possible. So there may be quite stark choices to make for labour, and you have to maybe make them very soon. I understand that you do want to be vague, that is what you are being, youre being vague. I am being honest. And vague. Being practical and as straightforward as i can be in the interests of the country. In the interests of the country you would like to see a Labour Government and you would like a snap election. So you may be in a position of having to implement policy in less than six months. Where is policy on europe going to be made, if it is not made here in the democracy of the new labour party . It is being made in conjunction with our membership. We have many conversations. It is made every time we talk to people on the doorstep. Emily thornberry, thank you. With me is chuka ummuna, one Time Leadership candidate and shadow business secretary who was one of those mps leading calls this weekend for the party to change policy on brexit and rhea wolfson, momentum backed member of the National Executive committee, who has pushed for that voting rule change. Good evening. Chuka umunna, we have been at many labour conferences before, people are saying this one is full of energy and unity, we hear tom watson will be delivering a hero gram tomorrow. Its great to gather with the possibility that there will be a Labour Government soon whatever you are on the labour spectrum everyone is happy about that. But wilder is positivity and delight about the fact that we did a hell of a lot better at the election than people expected, we need to approach the task ahead with humility. We need to get 64 more mps. The labour mp was at its best injune this year in many respects with its leader at his best. We did but we failed to get more mps than the tories which is why we are modern government. So i think everyone is focused on that goal. You want toJeremy Corbyn not to over promise and under deliver. Some say hed promised a lot today. Is this a government in waiting . We have to be a government in waiting, it is our role as an opposition. We want to do everything in the manifesto but we want to be able to do it all in the first year. So there will be hard choices to be made about. Weve got a big tuition fee, scrap pledge, but we also want universal childcare. Weve got the pfi announcement is being done today. We can do those things but we need to be clear what we will do first. Rhea wolfson, let me put you a recent independent poll. In terms of what the public want the backing for state policies yes, people want an executive pay gap and people want tuition fees to go, only 33 considered Jeremy Corbyn s party. A party that can deliver that. Lets look at what we did in the last general election, thats the best polling we could ever do. We did lose but given the nature of the snap election, going from where we started at the beginning when that election was called and where we ended up, who could have said, if that election had gone on for another two weeks. What were doing is continuing that campaign because that is whatjeremy is great at, campaigning, convincing people. Its one thing sounding as if it is won but as chuka umunna says theres work to be done outside and you cant deliver everything. What the public said was the more they sought Jeremy Corbyn the more they liked him. That is our role at the moment to give people as much exposure to him as possible. What people also see is the issue of brexit not being voted on in this hall partly because momentum e mailed people saying, this is a list of the votes we want cast and we want brexit right down there. Was that a mistake. It is a shame that the current leadership will not be any different from the other leaderships which want to avoid a vote on issues that potentially dont go their way that is nothing new. For me the issue is the principle. It is interesting to see the package because my own view is that i am pleased that labour leadership moved during transition to a position where we want to stay in the Single Market and the Customs Union. Id like that to be our permanent position. Im pleased with the change but i want to nudge it to the next stage. Not just because of thejobs element. The difference between having access to the Single Market and membership of it is, anyone can access the Single Market but with membership we are part of a framework of rules and protection for employees, consumers and the environment, that sets a floor and enables us to get globalisation to work better for low and middle income people in this country. This is why it matters, its a socialjustice argument, people like me being a pain in the backside, in a way, for the leadership because we are arguing from that position. You are talking to the hall, you need to convince people in the country and it doesnt help if you dont have an open discussion and a proper vote on it. Thats not active representation of what happened today. There was talk about brexit and there was a motion but by the committee that was voted on. We have to look at what our members, who are representative of society, not quite over 600,000 but i think we will soon, what they wanted to have a conversation about and what our priorities were. Use it was an e mail sent out by momentum. But ultimately we have over 12,000 people attending this conference. It is the defining policy for a generation. We have to lead on this issue. I totally understand why the shenanigans went on to prevent the freedom of movement and Single Market motion is being discussed. All leaderships do that. What i am clear about is that the country is looking to labour to lead on this issue. And we can do so while respecting the result of the 2016 referendum. Lets not forget that in 2016 theresa may put the prospect of us being yanked out of the Single Market and the Customs Union to people at the election and you didnt get a mandate for that. So we have to take advantage of that and make the argument for social justice and to protect your viewerss jobs. We can do that so lets do it. Thats my argument. Thank you both very much. Thats almost it for tonight, but before we go, we thought wed leave you with a lesson in perseverance. Last week, 13 year old lily rice became the first european female to perform a backflip in a wheelchair. But not before shed had a few close calls. If at first you dont succeed. Goodnight not quite sure what the difference is between doing all of that. Maybe somebody higher up knows more than i do. It has been a quiet start to the week. At its best, it looks a bit like that. Out towards the west, you increase the chances of seeing those conditions. Quite widely, the day started and concluded in that sort of matter. Manner. s show you a local effect from the isle of man. Things to our weather watcher is, thanks. Things are stagnant because we are between the low pressure to the west and the High Pressure towards the waste. East. Things sit there and they sit there to start the new day. Lead in the skies, murky. Dont expect too much in the way of sunshine, we have got to get on through the morning. Some of the frontal system that has been strung out through the British Isles begins to break up. We are all in with a chance, at least, of seeing a bit of sunshine. You get a bit of sunshine up north. In the north east comic you may have a bit of breeze and cloud and as its thickest, the cloud has got enough fight to produce the chao reversed. One of the more likely spots is northern east midlands and parts of east anglia. If they form at all, they will have gone company even in time. A bit more in the way of breeze to start the new day on wednesday. The dramatic changes is in Western Areas where we start to bring in more clout, rain and wind. It is all tied in with the weather front which will creep its way in towards Western Areas. The breeze is freshening and the cloud filling in. The further east you are, the fine and dry your day will be. 20 or 21 isnt out of the question. Im afraid it is still there on thursday morning. Fairly cold weather to be have crossed the North Eastern part of scotland but dry and bright conditions following infora time. Im rico hizon in singapore, the headlines north koreas foreign minister accuses america of declaring war on his country. Former un chief ban ki moon tells the bbc that the rhetoric is dangerous. Since the end of the korean war in 1950s we have not seen such heightened tension level. We have not declared war on north korea, and frankly the suggestion of that is absurd. Fears that this volcano could erru pt. 50,000 people are evacuated from their homes near mount agung in bali. Im Babita Sharma in london. Also in the programme a setback for mark zuckerberg. China blocks messaging service whatsapp, the last facebook product