Transcripts For BBCNEWS BBC News 20170915

Of nearly 4 for some nhs workers. And a bittersweet end to a Space Mission which circled saturn for 13 years, sending back never before seen images. Good evening and welcome to bbc news. An explosion on a tube train in south west london this morning is being treated as a terrorist attack. Witnesses have spoken of a flash and a bang and then panic, as commuters ran out of the carriage. 29 people have been treated in hospital, some suffering from burns. The incident happened in the morning rush hour as a District Line tube train pulled into the overground station at Parsons Green in west london. At 8. 20 am. The bbc understands that the bomb, described as a homemade device, had been fitted with a timer, but it failed to fully detonate. Whoever planted it is still on the run. Tom symonds has our first report tonight. At 8. 20am, the friday commute was well under way. A very packed commuter train, young, old, children, pensioners, everyone. At the tiny Parsons Green station, where the lines run overground, a brief stop. Literally i stepped on and within two seconds, a massive bang. It was loud enough to make me wonder what it was, and i looked around and this wall of fire was just coming towards us. I turned left and i saw the fireball surge towards my side. We just heard the loudest, scariest screams coming from what sounded like the carriage next to us. People shouted run, so we ran for our lives. It was pandemonium on the platform, people falling down because everybody was trying to make an exit. I fell over somebody who had fallen in front of me but managed to get myself up. A passing passenger pointed a phone back at the train. Inside was this still flaming, a white bucket with something inside. Police later confirmed a makeshift bomb. Lets get away and move down the platform. Despite the explosion, the train appeared intact, though the line was brought to a halt and other trains evacuated as passengers were to safety. Hundreds were able to walk away uninjured. But not all. On the street, the Emergency Response was under way. I have seen a woman stretchered off, and clearly her legs are wrapped up and she had burns to herface. She is conscious, she was taking some oxygen and pain relief as well. But clearly people have sustained very nasty burns. In all 29 people have been injured, most suffering from what Police Describe as flash burns. Move back, thank you. The area around the station was cleared, sniffer dogs checking nothing had been left to cause further harm, and another terrorism operation got under way. The investigation is being led by the metropolitan Police Counterterrorism command and part of the National Terrorism policing network, and there are urgent inquiries, with hundreds of detectives looking at cctv, forensic work and speaking to witnesses. That work starts here. The first urgent task, to identify whoever put the bomb on this train. The advantage for the police is that these trains have cctv cameras, as do the platforms. They also have the device pretty much intact, and its packaging. And they will also look for anything dropped by the suspects, which has happened in the past. Beyond here, the Intelligence Services will want to know who did this, who they are in touch with, and whether anything else is planned. The governments Emergency Committee decided not to raise the National Threat level, suggesting no further imminent attack has been detected, but security is being stepped up again. People travelling in london will see an increased Armed Police Presence on the transport network, and they will see security increased, and the police will do what is necessary to protect the public. There were injuries but no one was killed today. This could have been a lot worse. Yet a bomb was placed unnoticed on the tube, demonstrating that warnings to be vigilant should not be ignored. The bbcs Sophie Raworth arrived on the scene very soon after the device went off. She spoke to many eyewitnesses, including peter crowley, who was heading into work at a carpet shop near here. How are you feeling . Im feeling fine. Peter crowley has had a very lucky escape. He was standing right by the device when it went off on the packed tube train. He was hit by the fireball, leaving his head badly singed. Wow. Yeah. He was in shock. Rather than go to hospital, he turned up to work, where i met him this afternoon. Peter, how are you . Very shaken up. Lucky. Youve been incredibly lucky. Tell me what happened this morning. The train pulled up, doors open, an explosion happened to the left of me against the doors which dont open, not the platform ones. Fireballs come over my head, and panic set in. Everyones rushed from the tube, its been complete pandemonium. Sojust explain, so you were on the tube . Yes. You were standing, sitting . Standing, leaning against the door, the open door, on my phone. All of a sudden i heard a massive explosion which was like a pressurised sort of sound, like a deodorant can or a kettle exploding, and this fireball. Ive turned, the fireballs come up over the top of the carriage. And it was really that high . Yes. I mean, from the pictures, i guess it come up from behind where the people were standing in front of those doors, and come up to the top. And youve got bad. Is this from this morning . Yes, i mean, literally, hair has come out today. Thats your hair . Thats whats happened . Yes. Did it take you by surprise . As well as the burns to his skin, he realised his clothes have been left peppered with a white residue. It was just sheer panic, everyone rushing off the tube. The worst gentleman i saw, he was being helped off the carriage by another couple of people. He had a pufferjacket, it had all melted on his back. He had burns across the front of his face. From what i see now, i believe that the flash came up from behind him, over his head towards myself at the doorway. And now, after all this, how are you feeling . Shaken up now ive heard that it was actually a planned explosion. Lucky. Ill go home, give my wife and kids a big cuddle tonight, and happy to be here. Lets speak to helena lee, whos near the scene in south west london. What is happening there this evening . What has been described as a very quiet family area, this is still the centre of a huge investigation here this evening. Just to try to give you a closer shot, we are at the cordon very close to Parsons Green tube station and you can probably hopefully make out the tube that was involved in the incident in rush hour this morning. The investigation here is continuing. The cordon and the area around here was wider but in the last arab half or so, they allowed us last arab half or so, they allowed us to come a bit closer. In the last hour and a half or so. Also the london fire brigade are here, with the police, carrying out their investigations. As we understand it, that improvised device is still on the tube train behind us. What forensic officers will want to do is examine that. They wont want to rush that at all because that will be vital for rush that at all because that will be vitalfor their rush that at all because that will be vital for their evidence. It will be vital for their evidence. It will be full of clues for them in trying to determine who it was who left that device on the train at around 8 20am this morning. We have been talking to a number of people in this area, many of whom saw the rush of people who came out of that tube this morning. One lady who works in a cafe very close to Parsons Green tube station said that she saw dozens tube station said that she saw d oze ns of tube station said that she saw dozens of people beginning to come out of the station. She came out with water and tea for them to help them and it was a very confused situation. She said people didnt know what was going on, many were suffering from shock, and it was only when the armed police turned up that she actually realised that it was a very serious incident. So the investigation here continuing and officers clearly are trying to find the person who did this. Thank you very much, helena. Helena in Parsons Green. The head of counterterrorism says hundreds of detectives are now involved in the investigation. The bomb is being examined by forensic teams and officers are looking through cctv at the station for clues about who planted it. Our security correspondent Gordon Corera takes a closer look now at the investigation and where it might lead. This device is at the heart of the investigation. And it will have provided police with many clues. One clue of these wires coming from it, almost certainly used to try to trigger an explosion. They look similarto trigger an explosion. They look similar to these Christmas Tree lights that a birmingham man planned to use in a home made device before he was arrested. Such improvised devices do not always go off properly. That was the case on the zist properly. That was the case on the 21st of properly. That was the case on the 2ist ofjuly 2005, when the underground was targeted. Explosive experts believe todays bomb also did not explode as intended. The size of the device that was employed was quite significant, and have that device functioned in its intended and designed mode, we would have seen and designed mode, we would have seen considerable casualties, many injured and many killed, probably. Shouting the explosive may have been a compound called t8 tt. This footage shows the devastation when it detonates properly. More than 30 were killed. Its also thought to have been used in the Manchester Arena attack this year. That involved a suicide bomber, but todays attacker wanted to get away and used a timer. That is similar to damon smith, seen here leaving a timed device at North Greenwich a year ago. It was spotted before it went off. Today, hundreds of counterterrorism detectives have been deployed in this investigation. They had been forensically analysing this device, looking for fingerprints and dna. They have also been scouring cctv images, looking foran been scouring cctv images, looking for an individual carrying this bag onto the tube and then getting off without it. That will have been the starting point for their manhunt. Mis starting point for their manhunt. Mi5 are assisting the investigation. So far, officials have expressed caution about identifying a motive. But they will want to know if the attacker was part of a group or acted alone, and, as often has been the case recently, if they were previously known to the authorities. Unfortunately it would not be surprising. This concept of a lone wolf now would balk more accurately bea wolf now would balk more accurately be a notable. Increasingly attacks when they happen have been committed by individuals who were known in some way to either the Counterterrorism Police or mi5. Would be more accurately a wolf known. Trump said, these are sick and demented people in the sight of scotla nd and demented people in the sight of Scotland Yard. Must be proactive. Theresa may responded it was never helpful to speculate about an ongoing investigation. For the fifth time this year, the country is dealing with the aftermath of a terrorist attack. This one could have been worse but the urgent priority now will be finding whoever left the device and making sure they pose no further danger. Lets speak to our Home Affairs Correspondent Daniel Sandford at new Scotland Yard. Just give us a sense of the work that will be going on in that building behind you tonight. The priority is absolutely the manhunt. There is a bomb maker on the loose, and of course possibly a bomb factory with more dangerous chemicals somewhere to be found, and that will be the absolutely priority bit of work the counterterrorism command. They do have a start, they have a device with a timer on it that has gone into Parsons Green tube station, and it has not come many stops at the line from when it started, so they need to go back through cctv on the train, to the station is going down the line, to identify the moment when that device was brought onto the train. That is almost certain to have been done by now and they will have some imagery already of their suspected bomber. Its notable they have not released that image to make a Public Appeal for people to assist, and that probably means they have got some further work they can do without Public Appeal, because then using other cctv imagery, they might be able to trace back the root of the bomber, which of course is important in trying to locate where he came from and where he could now be. Trace the route of the bomber. They will be looking at anybody who went into the tube station at that time, which will give an idea of where he went afterwards, and the tickets used, either always the cards or co nta ctless used, either always the cards or contactless cards, to enter through the barriers. Either oyster cards. There are good chances that scotla nd cards. There are good chances that Scotland Yard will be able to run the suspect ground, or suspects, quite quickly. So its not hopeless. Thats what they did after the failed North Greenwich attack, using similar techniques of cctv and ticket barriers. But they will be aware we have been lucky today. It is very important fortunate nobody has been killed when this device is seemingly failed to go off properly and they will be very keen to get to the bomber all bombers before they have any opportunity to do any more harm to anybody else. Or bombers. And also being distracted by the president of the united states, whose intervention they described today as pure speculation and unhelpful. Daniel, thank you. Lets get more thoughts on this now. Joining me now via webcam from tonbridge in kent is the former chief constable of the british transport police, andy trotter. Good evening to you. Can i come to the cctv first of all . Based on your knowledge of that and what weve just heard, would your suspicion be that the police probably know quite a lot about the possible perpetrators here already . |j a lot about the possible perpetrators here already . I really wouldnt want to speculate at this stage. We do know is that the underground and overg round stage. We do know is that the underground and overground is a very cctv rich environment. There will be hundreds of this trawling through the hours and hours of cctv available to them. Hundreds of officers trawling through. They will be looking at the outside of various tube stations at cctv in the street, so tube stations at cctv in the street, so there are superb opportunities in this investigation. And theres only a relatively small number of stations prior to Parsons Green on that journey where this stations prior to Parsons Green on thatjourney where this could have been brought on from, this device . Yes. Equally, it could have been brought on through network rail from wimbledon. There are a number of ways to get onto the system, but there is a very good chance that there is a very good chance that there is a very good chance that there is some good cctv of this character getting on. The tube train itself is still at the scene now and you would imagine that to be the case for a good while, would you . Obviously this is a huge opportunity to have the forensic material from that, with a complete device, and they likely have done a thorough job till the tube train gets moved. But equally they are aware of the impact it has, with the system being out of action for a long time. But this is action for a long time. But this is a crime scene and it will take as long as it takes. How much help you think the public can offer here . L huge amount. People have already taken photographs, there will be cctv, film from the cameras, eyewitnesses themselves to the event, and people will come forward with all that information and they have or disaster that to be downloaded to the police. Equally there will be intelligence from the community. People will start to put two and two together about peoplesbehaviours, anything being purchased, and this will be a massive, fast moving investigation using every material they can get to track down the offender or offenders. On that public role, clearly this happened at the height of the rush hour, it was a very busy train. To an extent, presumably those who were looking to carry out attacks like this will tend to try to do it at its busiest time . Well, their objective is obviously to kill people and get massive publicity, and weve seen that from the dreadful attacks earlier this year and the 7 7 attacks. But its not just the transport system that weve seen. Just the transport system that weve seen. Weve seen it on a public resort where there are lots of people, so the kind of precautions you have to at have to take apply everywhere, not just the you have to at have to take apply everywhere, notjust the transport system. Just a word on the design of this particular train. These are comparatively new trains on specific lines on the london underground. If you get on board a train like this there is no sense of the carriages being divided in the way that they were. They clearly are separate carriages but they are joined together from the passengers point of view. What difference does that make to what were talking about today . Were brought in for a variety of reasons but from a policing point of reasons but from a policing point of view they are good because you can move through the train if you have anybody bothering you, pickpockets, anybody indulging in anti social behaviour. I think passengers feel safer having that ability to move through. Equally, had there been a blast, the blast would not have been contained by a small carriage. The design of these trains, though, is to take into account a whole load of different scenarios. Thank you for coming on. Mark rowley, the assistant commissioner of the metropolitan police, has asked people to upload images or video as they could prove helpful. This is the address lets speak to professorjohn gearson, professor of National Security studies at Kings College london. A word about the device festival. What stands out for you when you look at what was being attempted here . Well, it looks like an improvised explosive device probably mixed with commercially available chemicals. At this stage there is no suggestion that it was using anything biological or chemical, other than chemicals to create an explosion. Clearly if it is true that there was a time involved its a different sort of attack than the ones weve seen recently, where the perpetrators either intended to be caught or killed, or actually were suicide attackers. And i think it reflects the scale of the challenge for the Security Services. I also think its significant that it was placed on an underground train quite early on in its line, in a fairly obvious manner, quite a large bag being placed there, and that does give some optimism, i think, for the public being part of security in the future, because its not going to be something easily done. On a very busy tube train you are not going to notice a bag being left initially but between stations people will have an Important Role to play. Highly dangerous device, clearly, given what happened today, but one that could have been a good deal more dangerous . Yes, and the challenge for the bomb makers is that it might not be as straightforward as it might appear. For those who have travelled to the middle east, the thinking as they would return with sophisticated bomb making skills and the ability to produce bombs and this has not proven to be the case. What we have seen proven to be the case. What we have seen is diy terrorism, people doing something, in some cases quite sophisticated plots, potentially the barcelona attack and the possibility of the gas canisters which followed it, that suggested something more sophisticated. This still seems relatively amateur but can be deadly, of course, and is very difficult to roll up for the Security Services, because it could be individuals linked in very diffuse ways. I dont accept only links with the internet but it could bea links with the internet but it could be a small, tight group of people who have in some way radicalise an individual and maybe assisted them in the materials. In what way can those running london underground, but those also across the country, what can be done to make them more secure . I think its a very difficult question. We have to judge the level of threat before we start making big changes to the way we travel around the capital. I dont think you can secure every station on an old network the scale of london that quickly, but most Counter Terrorism is based on intelligence, of disrupting plots before they occur. Unfortunately what were seeing is a significant number, andi what were seeing is a significant number, and i think we move into the half dozen this year, a significant number of relatively low skill plots getting through. I think it shows that with thousands of people of interest, how you disrupt all sorts of attacks . Thats the question for the Security Services. I still think they are being amazingly successful but the solution is to stop people being radicalised, notjust been those who have been radicalised from carrying out attacks. So we must never lose sight of the root cause, and if you start to tackle that more effectively, and people argue about how that is to be done, but that is ultimately the better way to deal with this . Yes, the crucial factor is for the community of this country, and that is all religions and faiths, to make it difficult for terrorists to believe there is an in group and an outgroup, so it is ok to kill people on a train if you in some way are inspired by something. If that continues to be accepted by minorities, or even not challenged, it allows radicalisation to continue. Everybody has to be part of this, and that means being pretty critical of the right wing groups weve also seen who have seemed to have shown some interest in carrying out low level but still violent attacks. And with the public reaction to Something Like this tending to be, of course it is horrific, but we are going to carry on, because what else can you do, frankly . Does that in any way put those who might be considering Something Like this off, because they begin to think, it doesnt actually achieve what they are looking to do . Yes. You are talking about what we called deterrent by denial, in other words, they cannot achieve what they want to achieve. Security and our reaction is important because you dont want to encourage terrorists to find other ways to carry out attacks. They will a lwa ys ways to carry out attacks. They will always be seeking to do that but their desire is to give the impression that society is losing control, and there are very few terrorist organisations who ever really achieve that, and therefore achieve what they wanted to, which in some respects our Political Goals that none of us really think we could ever give, but nevertheless, they think they might achieve it. There is, for example, a belief that the spanish withdrew from iraq because of the madrid bomb attacks. Thats not entirely true. Its complicated. There was an election and there are various reasons why the socialist won, and their policy was to withdraw from iraq, but they will look at the reaction from the public. A keep calm and carry on attitude is a good one but we also have to be realistic about changing some aspects of our lives to defend against this threat. Thank you very much indeed. Now the weather with ben rich. The week has ended on a cool and shari note and that is how the weekend will continue. The showers should slowly but surely begin to ease. should slowly but surely begin to ease. A cool note with showers. Turning quite cool out there tonight. Many showers will fade away but some will continue across scotland, wales and the far south west, with temperatures at eight, nine or ten. South west, with temperatures at eight, nine orten. Lowerthan south west, with temperatures at eight, nine or ten. Lower than that out in the countryside. Initially the showers will be in coastal areas exposed to the breeze. So many areas, where you start dry with spells of sunshine, we will see cloud generally bubbling up through the day and showers breaking out. Those will be quite wide by the afternoon, some thundery and heavy. Sunday, a chilly start but fewer showers and more in the way of sunshine. This is bbc news. The headlines now. Police have said an explosion on a tube train in south west london is being treated as a terrorist incident. 29 people have been treated in hospital mostly for burn injuries. Eye witnesses described seeing a wall of flames when the device exploded at Parsons Green station and there was panic as people tried to flee from the scene. 14 Health Unions covering all nhs staff are per from doctors has written to the chancellor pressing for a pay rise. It comes after the government abandoned i pay cut for Public Sector workers. For a second time in three weeks north korea has fired a missile over the north of japan prompting authorities to warn people to take cover. The missile fired over japan people to take cover. The missile fired overjapan have arranged to head qualm. To hit the us territory of guam. Police are describing an explosion on a tube train in south west london as a terrorist incident. 29 people have been treated in hospital. The blast happened on a District Line train at Parsons Green station which was packed with commuters around 8 20 a m. Police say an improvised expose of device was detonated. Pictures from inside the tube train show a white container inside supermarket bag, it was on fire with wires or lights protruding from it. The uks threat level remains that severe, the second highest meaning that another terror attack is highly likely. Earlier in the former metropolitan Police Commander explained why the threat level has not been raised. View only raise the threat level when you think there is an immediacy to another attack. They must be satisfied that that is not the case and i am grateful. Let us remind everyone that we are severe and that remains vigilance is required by all of us. Let us go back to the first images we saw and people have been talking about them in the streets around here all day. The image of this apparently home made device in some sort of a bucket on a train, when you saw it, what did you think . It is the fourth we have seen in london, it is distressing, it is concerning but we have to understand that these terrorist attacks are designed to create dissent and create friction in communities and we must guard against that. The metropolitan police will be out in force across each and every one of the wards, locally across london, reassuring, engaging and connecting with people to make sure they feel safe and are able to talk to police. Let us speak to the former assistant director of intelligence at the ministry of defence. Good evening. A word first on the device, what if anything does that tell you about what was been attempted here . I think, first of all we were very lucky in that it was a device designed to kill and injure as many people as possible, classic terror tactics and classic jihadi tactics although that has not been confirmed yet. It would appear it did not work properly, which is probably no consolation for those people who have been injured. This bomb is probably about four times the size of the one in manchester. Many people could have been killed. Although it is too early to say, there are talks that there was Hydrogen Peroxide in it, which is a key component in the favourite explosive ofjihadi is, we sought in brussels, we manchester and elsewhere. That will help the police and Security Services a lot here. And it is a classic modus operandi for terrorists leaving a bomb and getting away. The fact that there was not any suicide person with that probably was one of the reasons it did not go off, it may be a change of tactics. Although it is horrific, now that we know this is the way that they want to attack us, it will be more easy for the police and Security Services to mitigate against it. And for the public to be more aware of what they should be looking out for, perhaps . |j more aware of what they should be looking out for, perhaps . I think the collective vigilance that we had across the country during the ira bombing campaign, checking underneath cars, any suspicious items being reported to the police, is an area we want to get back to. I dont think we should be shy or nervous about it, i think the government have been slightly standoffish about telling the public exactly the state of the terror and the sort of things they need to look out for in countries like south korea and japan and singapore, where igo korea and japan and singapore, where i go regularly, they are briefed all the time on terror tactics and procedures and what to look for and i think that is something we need to do because a bomb like this, a large device left on a tube train as it was, would be highly suspicious to me. These sorts of things need to be Second Nature to everyone. We do not wa nt to Second Nature to everyone. We do not want to panic or change your way of life, but we need to look at things a bit more carefully and if we do not like the look of it, let the authorities know so they can deal with it. It had a timer, we are told, and perhaps therefore did not go off when they intended, is that youre reading of it . Yes, i think so. Youre reading of it . Yes, i think so. Once the bomber removes himself from the actual device, then it becomes pretty unpredictable. And the timer is another gadget in the process and thankfully, it did not go off and thankfully it is more it electronics which the Security Services and the police will be able to do with, get dna from and find the people who did this and make it less likely to happen in future. Thank you very much indeed. North korea has fired another Ballistic Missile across japan creating new tension in the region following its nuclear bomb test. It sparked a new round of International Condemnation but no agreement on how to rein in north koreas increasing tensions. Siren wails in northern japan, friday began with this very unpleasant wake up call. Speakers blared out warnings. Commuters were cleared from railway stations, and trains halted. Thats a nice wake up call. Foreign tourists were left bemused by what was going on. Far above, a north Korean Missile was flying past. This behind me is the sea ofjapan. Weve come up from tokyo because this is the place that is most affected. This is the place where this morning they were woken up by those sirens and by that message that a north Korean Missile was flying overhead. For the people who live here in towns and cities along this coast, it is the second time that has happened in less than three weeks. This afternoon, we found this man playing with his young daughters and fretting about how to protect them. Translation i want to protect my kids but we dont have a basement. We have nowhere to hide. The missile takes only ten minutes to reach japan. What can we do in ten minutes . Erica told me she is frustrated by japans refusal to talk to north korea. Translation the sirens, to scare people, theres nothing you can do. So what is the point . The government needs to have a real policy. It needs to talk to north korea. This is the type of missile that is thought to have been fired. It flew further than any north korean rocket has ever gone before. In tokyo, Prime Minister shinzo abe marched out to face the cameras again. If it continues down this road, he said, north korea will have a dark future. But his words have an increasingly hollow ring. Beneath this house, one person has taken matters into his own hands. Behind a heavy steel door, he takes me into his own nuclear bunker. Translation since these Missile Launches began, ive had so many calls about the air filtration system. Ive had at least 800 enquiries this year. He is safe in his bunker, but the rest of japan is wondering what it can do, and when the next Missile Launch will come. Rupert wingfield hayes, bbc news, niigata, northern japan. Now it has given us some of the most remarkable images ever seen of the planet saturn, its rings and moons for 13 years but earlier today the final mission of the space probe cassini was to plunge into the atmosphere to be burnt up and destroyed. During its epicjourney it made extraordinary discoveries and gave new insights into the workings of this most mysterious of planets. It has been a journey that sounds like something from science fiction. Nasa conjuring up animations of the cassini spacecraft line around the spectacular rings of saturn. But this really did happen and these are some of the images the mission actually captured. The planet seen from closer than ever before. The strange detail of its rings. A jet stream in the shape of a hexagon. And an utterly weird collection of moons. But today, the expedition had to come to an end. Im going to call this the end of mission. At Mission Control in california, hugs and applause. For many it has been the work of a lifetime, and no surprise there were very mixed feelings as the final signal reached earth. Well, it has been a part of my life for 20 years. We have spent day in and day out thinking about cassini, planning the observations and focusing on the signs. My career has been based on cassini so it is ready hard to see that go. Saturn is the most distant world to have been explored for so long, and the cassini spacecraft, which is almost as big of a bus, has achieved something never attempted before. It has given us unprecedented views. These have led to dozens of discoveries. The mission is described as one of the most remarkable journeys of exploration. It has been orbiting saturn for a staggering 13 years. It is one of saturns moons which have provided the most startling revelation. Plumes of vapour were spotted coming from it. This turned out to be water. Lets take a closer look inside. We now know under a covering of ice there is a notion. Of ice there is a ocean. Scientists have come to an amazing conclusion that in here there is every ingredient needed for life. This opens up a whole new realm of possibilities in the search for life beyond earth. And the discovery of conditions on moons like this is a real breakthrough for scientists like Linda Spilker who started her career at nasa three decades ago when the mission began. We wanted to know was their life in enceladus ocean. Could there be life inside other moons . It will take future missions to go back and find answers to those questions. The mission captured images of the moon titan. And the sounds that it recorded. To make sure cassini would not contaminate other worlds where there may be life, it was sent to its destruction, but has raised tantalising possibilities. Joining me is a doctorfrom the Royal Astronomical society. Good to see you. I wonder how you feel about the end of this mission. It is bittersweet. That was an impressive mission which took up a huge part of my ph. D. And it is embedded in me forever. The findings have been quite incredible but crashing something you spend 30 years working on into the atmosphere of saturn will always be bittersweet. Was it the right way to end it . Yes, there we re the right way to end it . Yes, there were lots of different options, sending it towards jupiter, were lots of different options, sending it towardsjupiter, but there was the right amount of fuel to really look at the rings and the atmosphere of saturn without violating the planetary protection act and it was the best thing to do. What do you pick out from the 13 yea rs what do you pick out from the 13 years as being the most arresting image or extraordinary revelation from this whole revelation. The whole mission has rewritten textbooks. We learned new things about saturn and about our solar system and about how we have been formed as well but the thing for me which is really important, have been the findings on kinsella does, that tiny little moon which is about the size of the earth, it is about the size of the earth, it is about the size of the earth, it is about the size of england, and if it was the size of england, and if it was the size of england, and if it was the size of your thumbnail, saturn would be the size of a double decker bus, it is tiny and the fact that it could be the Perfect Place to harbour life, that blows me away. Could be the Perfect Place to harbour life, that blows me awaym could be, as you say, rather than definitely is, how much longer will it take to think for us to be ever to find out the answer to that question . That is for future scientists and the next generation. At the moment we are planning or nasa are planning to go to europe, and moon ofjupiter which has similar conditions, we believe. That will take another 20 years, really by the time it gets created and sent tojupiter by the time it gets created and sent to jupiter and the findings by the time it gets created and sent tojupiter and the findings come back. What we really want to do is send a drill to the moon and measure that water and see exactly what is in that ocean and that will be not in my lifetime. That was a shame, i was going to suggest you get that organise now. That will be my retirement. Thank you for talking to us. Now it is time for new swatch. Welcome to new swatch. With bbc reporters putting themselves in the eye of the hurricane. I will