I do eat a lot of chocolate. But he trys to stay in shape and watch his diet. The average chocolate bar is what, about a hundred calories lets say two hundred. 10, 20 minutes on a running machine. So when you eat something, i kinda think how many how far do i have to run to equalize . Kennedy sheds light about the latest trends in the business. A shortage is potential, its a potential problem. And criticizes an industry he says hasnt yet figured out how to best help coco farmers. They say fair trade . Thats no good, i want free trade angus. I want free trade, i want to be able to sell my coco beans for my price. And if you wanna know if your sweet fix is good, kennedy has the secret. Its called a snap test, its quite simple. You literally take a piece of a chocolate and you break it and you listen. Plus we discus some of the more bizare ingredients people are adding to the mix. I know of a particular company in austria and theyll put in like, fish, bits of pig. I spoke with Angus Kennedy at a family run Chocolate Factory in new york. You are the man behind one of the most terrifying predictions i have heard in some time. And what is that . Well, yeah, the this is a prediction that the world will run out of chocolate by 2020. There is some validity. There is. To this notion that we may be running out of cocoa . Why . Well, the world isnt gonna run out of cocoa. But if you look at the global markets, for example nigeria south africa mexico, india and particular china as well they are eating a lot less chocolate than we are at the moment over in in the us and europe. And if they all act anything like what we do over here, considering their population sizes, then the consumption is gonna go up hugely, you know 14 , 15 . And then if you look at the amount of cocoa being produced which is fairly level, theres not much more, theres not much less and all the threats, then a shortage is potential. Its a potential problem. Well, what what is it that makes chocolate so hard to grow, to raise, and to produce . Its very susceptible to disease. So youve got the br brazil used to be one of the biggest producers of cocoa. Now the whole of you could imagine, the whole brazilian crop was wiped out by a disease called witches broom. Now thats carried by moths, like a pod borer moth. Theyll get inside the pods and the tree dies and thats it. So. Witches broom, that sounds very. Its call wi yeah. Sinister. I know, yeah, and it is actually, because if you get this pod borer moth somehow getting into the ivory coast which produces 40 of the worlds cocoa, then if the same happens in brazil, then youve got a big problem. The concentration of cocoa is there in the ivory coast, there in the middle of africa. There are a lot of factors that make it hard for them to produce more . Yeah, its v its very difficult to grow cocoa. It needs a steady rainfall susceptible to disease its been the the farms have been cut down because rubber is being grown. While the rest of the world seems to be making a great deal of money, on this chocolate and all these different chocolate products, what about the people who are being left behind . Oh, yeah. I think theres been about 11 initiatives that have been launched by the industry to combat, if you like, the problem of poverty in africa. Now one of the recent statistics said that if you put all the profits from the top three, top four global producers, its still not gonna solve poverty in africa. Youve got terrible political problems in the ivory coast, its quite corrupt, youve got child labor, youve got arms deals going on and cocoa, the money being used, et cetera. So its it you know, the the the chocolate industry has made a mistake by holding itself to blame because of poverty in africa. Its not actually they they cant solve it because it youve got governments, youve got corruption, youve got things going on like that. So its very sad and the the the average afr african farmer will be earning 2 a day, not very much. And i know for a fact that i have spoken to some farmers and they talk to me quite candidly. I said, you know, what do you want, you know, how what about fair trade. They say, fair trade, thats no good, i want free trade, angus. I want free trade, i want to be able to sell my cocoa beans for my price. And thats where the problem is because they cant cause its all its all controlled by government prices and things like that. So its a collective price and they cant negotiate it separately . Its a fixed price, yeah. Now you say that there is some exaggeration that the media might be prone to when talking about the death of chocolate. But the reality of it i mean you are seeing symptoms . You are, yeah. Whats happening out there . Whats happening to my chocolate . Yeah, you you are. I mean, if if you go into a shop, its called shrinkflation and its known well, you go in there and youll either find your product bars suddenly got smaller and no ones told you have they, you discover it. Or youll find those inclusions, which is like, almonds, theres nougat, those bits and pieces, its not chocolate though is it, because the chocolate is the expensive bit. The cheapest bit is the sugar. So you are finding that generally as a trend chocolates getting sweeter with more bits in it, and its getting smaller. And that is a definite. Its kind of yucky. Yeah, yeah. For a chocolate connoisseur. Yeah, it doesnt have so much cocoa butter. So the cocoa butter is what makes chocolate chocolate. Its like the grape of champagne. So when i go to the store and i see on the rack, i look at all my favorite chocolates, but now all of a sudden, one of thems being advertised as featuring air, air bubbles i know. Air bubbles in my chocolate. Yeah, and its less calories. No, its not, its less chocolate. So so, you know theres ways of which the industries is promoting the fact that its good that youve got a smaller bar. One is the fact that its less. Thats spin. Less calories. Less calories. No, its not, its less chocolate. Higher in antioxidants cause its got almonds and walnuts. No, its not, its less chocolate. And theyll just keep going, theyll keep going, theyll try on and on and on. The quality of the chocolate that remains. Yeah, its. Is often . Thats very controversial very controversial. You called it sludge. Yeah, because because you know, ive ive ive tried a lot of chocolate, so ive been around the world and you know, you try different types of of strain of cocoa bean from jamaica, from madagascar, from cameroon, and its you know, its amazing. Its different flavors. And i think the big conglomerates are trying to make it a globalized taste, which is sweet, so well all accept that. Its very cheap, well make lots of profit. But but of course, you know, they have to make money, which is fair enough. But chocolate can taste amazing. And it doesnt have to, you know, taste like what people think it does taste like. Like gunk . Yeah a lot of the time, yeah, exactly. You should know because you have eaten as you say, an awful lot of chocolate . I have, yeah, and look at the size of me. Well, you dont like a chocoloholic, but. No, i mean, you know, theres precautions i have to make. You know, i you pe. What but wait, whats your dre i mean, you have the dream job, half of laugh the worlds. I know. Certainly children, and a whole lot of adults would say, Angus Kennedy. I know. Has the greatest job in the world. No, really. What is it . Youre absolutely right. Well, you know, if i drop the kids off at school, the other kids say, hey, look, its its its its his dad look, has brought more chocolates . , and they come up. You its its almost got a following, its amazing. But we do have a lot of chocolate. I mean, we really do. I mean, the house is full of chocolate, full of sweets everywhere you go, its, like, everywhere. So and sometimes im a judge. Thats thats an interesting example. So you have to go around a trade show and from 9 00 til 5 00, you have to taste chocolate all day long. How much chocolate do you eat in a day . I do eat a lot of chocolate but then i also do a lot of sport and as ive been a journalist in the Food Industry for a very long time, i know what goes into my food, i read all the labels. But the latest reports that were seeing in the news are that chocolate, not only dark chocolate, but all chocolate is supposed to be healthy . laugh was that the latest one . Oh, i think ive read about 500 of those. I mean, over over 25 years ive read chocolate is good for you, the latest, about, i dont know, hundreds, hundreds, and hundreds of times. Chocolates good for your skin good for antioxidants, its good for this, its good for your oh, hang on, recent one, blood flow, blood flow, think about casanova, he used to take it blood flow, right. So its all that story chocolate and virility and you know. So anything. Well, i should point out that you have quite a few children. laugh yeah, yeah. I like champagne, you mix em so it kind of works. But. Chocolate and champagne. Yeah, that. And the result is . Five children. I know. But then at least we can feed them with something, you know. laugh but no, going back to your point about this this sort of chocolate is good for you. Well, you know, how many times have we heard, you know, Big Industries that have put in a lot of money into either such and such reports to make their let lets say for example, vegetables. Have you read something in the paper recently, broccolis good for you . No, never, you cause they dont have any money. But so thats wrong and and but because so much money goes into this yes, elements of it, the 306 approximately 365 antioxidants that exist. The human body will absorb three. So when it says chocolates full of antioxidants, its pointless because because actually you co you could just have a walnut or, you know, something else, which is very high in antioxidants, and then you dont get the sugar and the fat. But you see, im a cynic, ive been it for a long time. But i still like chocolate because i know its because well, actually, the one one reason why i like it is because i know its probably a little bit bad for me. And i can express myself saying, well shut up, ill ill eat it, you know, because because im a free spirit, you know, i want to eat it thank. You just want the honesty of it . You at one point were eating two pounds, three pounds of chocolate a day . Yeah, i was eating a lot, yeah. In your job . Yeah. Yeah. Which seems like it would have. It it did. I mean all my teeth are capped, so ive got all those capped. Ive had two knee operations because ive been to the gym so much. So so what happens is well i cant row now so now ive got a real problem cause i cant cause i cant go to the gym. Because youre a rower. Yeahyeah. If you look at it, if you look at a chocolate bar, the average chocolate bar is what, 100 calories lets say, 200, 10, 20 minutes on a running machine. So when you eat when you eat something, i kinda think, how many how far do i have to run to equalize. So it its. And thats how you keep your form even though. Its kind of. You might be. Yeah, im always thinking okay, well, what do i got to do i i need to equalize this cause i do want to live to 100, i wouldnt mind, be quite nice. I dont want to i i generally dont want to be over overweight if i can help it. But chocolate has made you a star . I think so, yeah. And its its its so funny because whenever actually, if you look at it, it is americas favorite flavor, theres eight Million People in the uk that eat chocolate every single day. We we eat 12 kilograms a year in the uk, its just and then youve got these surveys, its so funny, you got these surveys in england. And its, like, 33 of brit people in britain, i know its would would give up things like alcohol, sex, favorite shoes, its. Just for the chocolate . Yeah. So its it it is a very powerful, magical product. Its more important than politics. Who eats who eats the most chocolate in the world . Swiss. Swiss, germans, british, theyre all about sort of 12 i mean, they would argue with each other, saying, no, we eat the most, you know. But and and actually American People eat about five and a half kilograms, so theyre theyre actually quite conservative about their chocolate eating. Were not eating as much chocolate as we should . No. Half half the amount of the british. So so youre actually being really good about it. So so so, you know, its not, you know. Nevertheless. It cuts the pricing. The if if there is. So. A chocolate shortage or if there is laugh a limited amount of chocolate or if there is, heaven forbid, the death of chocolate, whos to blame for that . Well, i think people like me, i guess really, laugh you know. We it it chocolate is its got caffeine in it, so its slightly addictive. And i and i think it because it tastes so good, we we created this amazing substance that, you know, if the aliens came down, theyd say, we want that, you know, we dont want your water, we want your chocolate, you know, because it is its just one of those things thats really quite tastes quite good. But having said that, the uk germany, switzerland, europe theyre ea starting to eat less every year so. And now its the rest of the world. We seem to be kind of set. Moving in. Yeah, thats whats happening, indias massive china, very exciting. So so yeah, and and thats where the kind of the attention of the corporates are looking at, the Global Companies saying, wow, look at china, look at south africa, nigeria, thats where theyre really looking theyre not really looking at us, not anymore. Were not much use we are, but the big growth, if you look at the size of the population in china and india, its enormous enormous market, so. And all the people are eating chocolate. And no, they eat one gram a year or something in china. So its the potential . Its enormous, enormous. Its far bigger, and if you look at the size of population of little england, you know, s a tiny little 70 million, oh, this looks quite good, hmm, 1. 3 billion, hmm, thatll do and they only eat one gram, lets do that. laugh thats why they dont care if they reduce the size of our products. This is just too big, this market. So thats whats really going on. When you go into a company like this that were visiting today, this is is the future of chocolate making . Yeah, i mean yeah, this you know my job is to go around factories all the e all the time, so i i go around lots and lots of factories. And you see many factories like this sort of come up from grassroots, from grandparents. If you look at the history of this business, what happened in the war and how they survived and they survived the hurricane, if they survive that, theyll survive anything. They they they they got nice products as well, you know, very, very good chocolate. And they know their market. So this is the kind of chocolate is this chocolate the same year to year, decade to decade . From from. Or are our tastes in chocolate also. Changing . Tastes are changing cause people are traveling. Sofor example you know, people will go to the caribbean or something and theyll think, oh, jamaica thats a cool place. And then someone else will have an origin chocolate with jamaica so what what theyre trying to do theres a company that launched something called wi called chocolate flights, it was like wine flights, so they were saying, okay, you have this chocolate before your meal, like an aperitif, then you have this one sort of halfway through, and then you have this one. And they they called it, like, this experience, theyre trying to make it so that you become a real connoisseur. And even though were eating less chocolate in europe theyre making much more money because the price has gone up, because the highend market, people are prepared to spend i mean, i ive been around chocolate boutiques, but dont call them shops, you dont mention the word shop, its like a gallery, you know. And you go in there and you can see, like, this massive sort of bronze lion or something ridiculous, you know. And you start to think, wheres the chocolate and then you see a spotlight, oh, yeah, okay, and you see it again. And you sort of go to the back of the shop somewhere laugh and youll find the chocolate, you know. And honestly, youre stepping over Homeless People to get into the shop and youve got a chocolate in there and for one for one small box, about nine chocolates is about 100 euros, which is about 150, its like 10 pounds per truffle. Its just so so the skys the limit. I mean, the you know, they can they they want to get into this area where they can charge a very high price so its a very exclusive market. And thats coming. Thats coming. It already has. You were born into chocolate . I was born into chocolate. I mean, literally my family, my father, you know, they came back from these tradeshows in germany with with, you know, ford cortinas, older 1970s cars full of chocolate, i mean, literally, and id run out. But it it wasnt. What chocolate were they full of . Oh, its, like just just chocolate from. Chocolate balls. Turkish delights, bubblegums, gobstoppers, you know. And for me, i was a kid who was failing all his exams, but i was, like, number one at school, you know, ill swap your gobstopper for a nice parker pen. So thats kinda where i started to trade and learn and learn about human instincts and things, you know, it was all from chocolate. So my whole life has been rescued literally by candy, so youre absolutely right, i owe my life to chocolate. Your father started out with. Yeah, so we we come from a sort of family of writers and artists. So clears throat i went to art school and we we had this crazy family i mean literally crazy. My mother was a drinker, so when i had time to have a conversation with her, you know, so i was literally kind of saving the house from one disaster to the other, you know. So if the dogs would run to the postbox, eat the chocolates, so id try and get to it first cause beep all these samples would come. And it was just it wasnt really until kind of later, i realized that the life i had was really quite unusual. But it but i did enjoy it. And i dont have its not like a sort of sad story, i it it kind of made me who i am. But but just to. So. Dig through it, i mean, your father was writing this chocolate. Yeah, so. Confectionary journal . Journal, exactly, and so was my mother, so. And so was your mother. And then you. And then. Grew up and became. In this. A writer. Office of. For it . Candies and and because they they used to have to write about candies and products so the whole office was full of candy. The offi it wasnt an office it was like a shed in the garden, by the way. laugh so so yeah so the family was just involved in the industry, so i know people in the industry going back, i know the grandfa parents. So i was kind of like this Little Charlie, if you like, you know, saying. The Little Charlie in this Chocolate Factory. Exactly, saying, dont pinch me because i dont want this dream to end. And, you know, im still saying that now, you know. Is there something about you that qualifies you to be laugh in the worlds best job and not say me . No, not at all. That thats why its so funny, because im so cynical. Its, like you know, if you look at well, if you look at people running countries, what the hell are they doing there . Coming up on talk to aljazeera the chocolate snap testing tips you should know about. Im joie chen, and on this weeks talk to al jazeera, im joined by chocolate taster Angus Kennedy. So what do we have here angus . Its a plate with two different kinds of chocolate . Yeah, we got two types of chocolate here, theyre sort of this is called kind of lowend chocolate, you know, mass produced quite high sugar content. And then youve got kind of a highend more luxury type chocolate. And how do i tell the difference . Well, its called a snap test. Its quite simple. You you literally take a piece of of chocolate and you break it and you listen. Its its laugh that simple. What chocolate do i do. And. So this would be . So if this would this would be sort of your more lowend, so if if you kind of break a bit off, its not gonna make so much of a click. It really makes no noise at all. It no, it no, it doesnt. And and if you if you take the different bar. Definitely makes a snap. Really does. Definitely does. But then if if if everything is 70 cocoa, right cause now they advertise that in the store, if everything is 70 , is it all the same . Well, yeah but that clears throat thats really clever cause what they can do is they they can say 70 cocoa powder but very low cocoa laugh butter. So its they can do lots of things, so its its. Marketing is very clever. When i go to the store and i see candy bar, what does that mean . If if. Its not chocolate . No, if if if someone says candy bar, and it looks like a chocolate bar, it means legally, theyre not allowed to say its a chocolate bar because its got no cocoa butter in it. So so they have to call it a candy cause its not chocolate. Its its a legal thing. [[joie]] hes eaten chocolate from all around the world. Next on talk to al jazeera Angus Kennedy tells us about the latest and strangest in chocolate trends. Putting loved ones in a nursing home. Hoping for the best. My father died because of the neglect. Are they betraying your trust . Its a forprofit business. [[joie chen]] welcome back to talk to al jazeera. Im joie chen. With me this week is renowned chocolate expert Angus Kennedy. When were walking through the factory looking at this vat, i mean, this is sort of the this is this is the centerpiece of chocolate, right, this is this is. Its kind of death by chocolate almost, isnt it. The cosmic swirl of the universe in chocolate. Yes. Yeah, i yeah, cause what they do is they they get this chocolate and they mix it up, they they temper it for a little bit, that thats actually what its called. And every choc every Chocolate Factory will have these, you know, huge vats of chocolate. And it really is quite mes. This is like veruca salt, or who no, who is it that fell into the the vat but in any case, so its its a charlie laugh character. Yeah, it is, yeah yeah, so yeah its its but but it but its almost meditational, when you when you look inside this thing, its like, wow, look at that, and the smell, the chocolate, you know, its just amazing. And you know, it. You dont ever get sick of that. No. No, cause cause like i just know when im approaching a Chocolate Factory, you can smell them. Its like this, makes noise oh, here we go, right, not not far now, you know. And laugh you know, some factories you really can smell miles away, you know, like thorn like, big big factories in the uk and spain and stuff, you sort of, yeah, were getting close, cant be far now. People put an awful lot of odd things into their chocolate. Im seeing more things now like, peppers, or tea as you mentioned, but also bugs . Oh, yeah yeah, i mean its its anything that creates a reaction is good for a business. So i know i know of a particular company in austria and theyll put in, like, fish, bits of pig, and, you know. Bits of pig . Yeah, well that they that thats how they call it. But well, the guy used to have a pig farm so he he he used to feed them bits of chocolate but now he puts the pigs in the chocolate so its a kinda weird story. But but thats just an example of some of the things he puts in it. He has fish flavor, but some of the more interesting ones are ants scorpions, insects is getting quite big, top london restaurants are really into insects. And its well, it its actually a very sensible way of eating protein so theres nothing inherently wrong with eating insects, its just kind of, you know. I ive tried them actually, chocolate covered locusts and ive even made them. Ive made them myself. So you get these locusts, you can buy them frozen, you fry em up in caramel and then laugh and then you coat em in chocolate. Do you have a favorite chocolate . I do, actually. Ive ive got the chocolate that i like is a chocolate that my children make at christmas cause ive got five children and we we cause i get lots of chocolate with we we get industrial chocolate, weve got a little tempering machine, so weve got this, like, christmas kitchen and we throw they just throw in bits of raisins and brandy and bubblegum doesnt matter. Sometimes you just see theres a three year old, so he might throw something in there you dont laugh quite want to eat. But just the way they say, dad, happy christmas, i love you, its just like, oh, my god, claps they just hit me up here hard and, you know. So its just just for for me, its like like these people here, they love what they do and it you can almost taste that energy that they put into chocolate, whereas it its that its that element of of hard work and love that goes into manufacturing something that you can almost pick up on. Talk about your family a bit. laugh you have five kids . When i met my wife, she sort of she thought i was quite cool, you know, its like, loads of free chocolates and bang you know. So you you know, and ive got this kind of philosophy that man plans, god loves, so the more you plan, the more youre going to be derailed from what youre planning. So i at one point, i just thought, well, i dont really want kids and i was 36 years old. And now look at me, ive got five kids and its, like, lifes crazy. But theyre beautiful. Theyre the youngest is three, so hes always trying to kill the sausage dog, and the eldest is, like, 16 and i have to get an appointment to talk to her because shes, like, teenager, you know. But hopefully if i go back with some. And do they. Chocolates and. Do they do they all Love Chocolate . Do they all love the Family Business . Yeah, they do. Yeah, they they really do. Television icon norman lear we hoped we were delivering real characters. Creator of all in the family the jeffersons and good times talks race, comedy and American Culture today. Youre taking me to a place in this interview, i havent been before. I told you this would be your best interview youve done. Every tuesday night. I lived that character. Go one on one with americas movers and shakers. We will be able to see change. Gripping. Inspiring. Entertaining. Talk to al jazeera. Only on al jazeera america. 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