Welcome to inside story. If you oppose the landscape tore samesex marriage, what does religious freedom many not to marry someone of the same sex yourself, no matter what the law says. Theres the freedom to remain opposed. Each as new laws make their thoughts known. Can they refuse when they work for the state. Can a school operated by a church refuse to recognise a gay employ or be forced to keep them employed, even in the face of passion alt rejection of their married state. Where are the lines, its not clear yet. Celebrations in the street after the Supreme Court ruled that samesex marriage is a constitutional right. Days after the high court handed down a decision, the next legal saga began. The opportunity for discrimination is live and well. Conservative states like indiana, moving forward with legal mechanisms, designed. This law does in the give anyone. They insist that the law does not discriminate. Indianas religious freedom restoration act took place july 1st. Tuesday an executive order followed suit, the governor saying anyone should be able to love anyone, you shouldnt make me accept it. Reporter brownback says the order prevent clergy and religious organizations from being forced to participate in activities violating beliefs. States taking similar approaches. Reminding clerks, clergy. They dont have to do anything interfering with faith. They want to take away First Amendment rights. I dont think the state should sanction, discriminate or penalize those conscience. Reporter indiana pastor claims hes the victim of discrimination. A restaurant chain told him he was stocking donations. The manager called. She was heart broken, but said we have changed our policy, we no longer serve religious organizations. Samesex couples are facing challenges in the work pleas, the education director at a Catholic School was firedar parents found out she was married to a woman. The arch dioceses it was a private school but received state money. The ordnance case you cant take money and discriminate. Some face uphill battles in getting married. Joining me for a lock at how people with samesex marriage look at it. Joining me is the pastor from wichita kansas and joins us via skype. Welcome to the programme. The court decided. How are you advising people in your state to respond. Thank you for having us. Its great to be on your show. Let me tell you, this battle is far from over. Thank god in kansas we have a governor who understands that religious freedom is upped attack. We believe the Supreme Court has stepped out of bounds, and here in kansas, they had no right to force a definition of marriage n us here in kansas. The battle is not over in kansas, in the midwest. Well be fighting every way we can to make sure that people who own private businesses and pastors in churches are not forced to have to accept a lifestyle that we think is perverted. We think homosexuality based on the bible. Not because we are dumb cannes sans, we read the bible. The bible is clear that marriage ought to stay between a man and a woman, thank god we have a governor, and a legislature in kansas that will do what is kansas. I heard what you said. I wonder if theres a doubt, a legal theory that would see you forced to marry someone you dont want to marry, if two men presented themselves at the Summit Church. Is there any law compelling you to marry them. First of all, thank you for having me. I love talking about this very thing. The reason theres a great concern i met with 60 pastors when you see what happened in oregon, when a private Business Owner is fined over 130,000, because they refuse to make a cake for a gay wedding, our fear is maybe its not the church now, but we know the homosexual agenda is powerful and we believe theyll try to force their views on Summit Church and bible believing churns, that is why we are concerned because of what the history is showing. We know the homosexuals and their agenda have not omthreated their task. Theyll mush, drive, and try to force churns like Summit Church and others to do marriage. Are you aware of any church anywhere in the country, in the 10 years or so that gay marriage has been legal anywhere in the United States, where a priest, minister, pastor, imam, rabbi marriage. Not at this moment. I tell you this, if you read my email, and you hear what the homosexual agenda is saying to us in wichita, they are making a promise that they will not stop and intentions are not only to accept gay marriage, but approve of gay marriage, and i believe and am hearing it, of tonnes of letters, and phone calls and activists, who are saying it is our attention, and we are determined to make sure that homosexuality and gay marriage will be accepted by all the churches. If you choose into the to do it. Well take away your tax exception. Something this exemption, something they love to threat churns with. If they dont allow gay marriage, theyll take away Tax Exemptions that the church gets a majority of the states dont recognise gay people as a protected class. So kansas would appear to be within its rights as things stand right now, to pass a law, or go by executive order the way the governor did, defining who the public that must be served is. Sound like you are not reassured by that. I am not reassureded by it, neither are most clergy in kansas. Who would have thought the churches would have to have this discussion. When you have a run away court, a Supreme Court, and you have in my opinion justice making up their minds that gay marriage is okay. One vote. If we is had one vote different, we wouldnt have the interview. I can tell you if the court can change the definition of marriage in kansas. How do we know the same court will not turn around and say you know what, Summit Church, you will do gay weddings, and you are going to mandate it. Remember this the people in kansas did not change their minds about what marriage ought to look like. They were forced upon us by a run away court. Theres a fear among clergy of nominations and backgrounds that well see the courts attempt to push gay marriage to the point that church believing in the bible will have to marriage. The pastor is a senior at the church in kansas. Thank you for joining us. Samesex marriage had a watershed moment when the Supreme Court announced their decision. The argument is far from over. Where are the lines of freedom and public accommodation, are churches protected by the First Amendment. Praying to be left alone, its inside story. Wildfires lit by arsonists. This sounds like it happened in a flash. Millions in damages. And the tragic human cost. Hes not here anymore. Find out how experts are fighting back. Hidden in the mountains of afghanistan. What you have seen was a drop of the iceberg. A 5000 year old archeological site. This has preservation on a scale that no other sites have. Under threat by Global Mining and scheduled for demolition. Mes aynak is one of the most important sites in the century. With time running out. Theyre losing everything. Can archeologists stop the clock . This is rescue archaeologic we are trying to excavate as fast as possible. You are watching inside story, praying to be left alone. We are trying to determine where the local lines are in the era following samesex decisions, lines showing guaranteed equal treatment and exceptions for religiously based ontext. In law, is a baker that makes wedding cakes ditch to a registrar that performs marriage . We are joined by the director of the programme in family law and policy at the university of illinois, and a senior litigator who joins us via skype. Can you reassure pastor fox who was on the programme earlier, is he really in jeopardy of some day being forced to perform the unions, that he steadfastly refuses to . Yes, i understand where the pastor is coming from. I think its an existential moment for a lot of people. They lost on the marriage question, and i think joep a legitimate fear, but a great deal of fear. We have two different ined of memories or the kinds of memories or the conduct that we have been talking about. Theres few things they can agree on. They dont agree on. It was a 90 decision out of the Supreme Court. At least for the proposition. Of one of the tragedies that he has seen is the whole officers of the state are shutting down marriage, not just to day folks, but everybody. That, i think, is a problem. I cant have this state refusing to provide access to marriage, because it has a monopoly on marriage. Theres a lot of churches where you get married. Thats a reason the reverent will not be forced to do the services in the sanctuary. You need the states licence in order to marry, and the state cannot be in a blocking position to, in effect. Defy the Supreme Court on this. Lets talk about that a little more. In the past few days, the texas attorneygeneral said they are free to make up their minds. While in kentucky, they threaten country clerks basically saying perform the marriage, you cant stay in your message. You cant stay in your office and refuse to do the job. Thanks, thank you for having me on. This is not an easy question to answer. Its the case that the First Amendment does not stop for elected state officials. They dont leave the Constitutional Rights at the government doorstep. As a basic fundamental matter, no american, whether an elected officer or not should be forced to participate in someone elses samesex marriage. In this case, you talk about the rule of law, you talk about the United States constitution, every stateelected official swore an oath to the u. S. Constitution and their own state laws. Interpreting the u. S. Constitution or honouring the u. S. Constitution requires us to look at what the Supreme Court has done and say they got to reasoning. This is the case to say the people of herbing and the United States rejected a decision as being contrary to the rule of law. Ill respectfully disagree with robin on the question of marriage. Its no more decided by this decision than the question of abortion was decided by roe v way. I understand the reports on the exercise rights guaranteed under the First Amendments. At the same time you cant died what parts of your job youll tell your boss you are willing to do. You cant take a job and then say well, there are parts i dont feel like doing. Well, thats right. But whenever an elect official takes an oath and swears to uphold the United States constitution, that includes the First Amendment. This is where the question of reasonable accomodation comes up. Is a county clear the only in the state that can issue a marriage licence. One of the clerks of court county clerks in kentucky met with the governor, proposing a marriage licensing scheme controlled by the state online. Theres an opportunity for state legislators to balance the rights and provide reasonable accommodation so no official is forced to comply are a legal test in order to hold off. Let me get a Quick Reaction from robin about the idea where you could accommodate the conscience clauses. Do you think that would work . Yes. We have a group of scholars i worked with tried to institute that method, involuntary samesex marriage, voluntarily embrace samesex marriage. In delaware they provided a right to judges, magistrates and copiedy employees not to have to facilitate a samesex marriage. I was talking about the wholesale closure of offices. Like an absolute right for an individual. They are the states, willing to erect a roadblock. When its a road block, i think its incorrect. Contrast it with what roger was talking about. Individual step offs. If you have an individual to be staffed, and its seamless to the public. I think its fine. We saw utah do that. Before the decision came out after it had samesex marriage forced pop it. They bypassed the problem. Stay with us. So how does this end. As the dust settles from the Supreme Court decisions will gay people greet the protection of their rights with forbearance. Are opponents of samesex marriage prepared to see how things go. Could there be anequilibrium welcome back to inside story. As the battle over samesex marriage enters a new era, will religiously based opponents to be left alone be answered. Robert, director of the programme in family law and policy at the university of illinois, and a senior liberator coming to us via skype is with us. Can we wait to see how this goes, or should the no side go into court to steal a days march, protect what it sees as its rights. The march of the courthouse began, Liberty Council is representing a county clerk sued for not violating her own conscience in issuing marriage licences to samesex couples. Youll see a lot more litigation because this is a new landscape. We have never been here before where the United States ordered all 50 states to recognise samesex personaling. Samesex marriage. Well represent anyone standing up for their own right of conscience and not participate. Well have a lot of opportunities to do that. Very quickly, is a baker, a band leader, a caterer different from a county clerk in law . Not in terms of First Amendment rights. In the case of the baker and the photographer, they are participating in artistic expression. That is a different First Amendment question sometimes than the question facing an elected official. In 19 states that see homosexual people, is there freedom of movement than there might be in the other states . Absolutely, if they refuse to provide cake or flowers, they are doing so at legal risk to themselves. And the other 31 states, i think the place to rush is to the legislator, not the courthouse. In exchange for extending rights to the l. G. B. T. Community, well have to find a way to live together. At this point there are important protections understooded. They should be used to find concessions for l. G. B. T. Too. Does not sound like you are optimistic about finding a way to live together. Shes right. We need to work on legislators to find the kinds of protections we see governors in louisiana impose or create. You cant spect one else to participate if they have a religious protection to it. Its a fundamental Building Block of the country. Dupt it get down to what speption is. If someone is making cannes appies in a kitchen, and you never see the nuptials or the catering, have you participated. And will we have to draw boundaries on this. This is a factual question. It will be different in every case, its where to draw the line is something that can only be determined by an individual. What we have in the laws with attention is on opportunity for a court to balance whether the requirement of the state is a burden on the exercise. These laws never say who whips, but gives the court the opportunity to balance everyone said right to live together. We are just about out the time. It curse to me. That people may end up with no scruples. If they detest homosexuals, they can say its a religious thing and be protected. And the 31 states leading l. G. B. T. Out of the publish scare, and thats right. Thats the tragedy, we need to find a way where marriage is recognised as a religious sacrament, and the can piss, flowers are drifferent. As to the last, people need to be treated differently, gay people. We are mean to them times, rabin, roger, great to talk to you both. Thank you for joining us. Ill be back in a moment with a final thought of an idea of your rights ending, and mine beginning, at the end of your fist and tip of my knows. Nose. You have to taste chocolate all day long. How one mans passion. You take a piece of chocolate and you break it and you listen. Led to a lifelong obsession. I owe my life to chocolate. And a dark warning. The world will run out of chocolate by 2020. I lived that character. We will be able to see change. Throughout the last 50 years, many have been free. Pronouncements on tax poly, from people who know that while script you are may be slend on men top. , wrapping your opinion wraps it in dignity, making it difficult to challenge. Theres an interesting passage saying exercise of religion includes anyone, whether compelled by a system of belief. Meaning you could be a member of a religion that has nothing much to say about saergemesex marriage, and stale base your objection op religious beliefs. Religion, it turns out is what you say it is. Practise i would be less skeptical if one of the engaged people was divorced or read about caterers who would not serve gay couples. And serve couples where one is religious and one is not. Since the constitution was ratified. We serve the the faith of others. The bible is clear on that to. Im ray suarez, thank you for joining us [ ] on america tonight, parking a high alert. The plane has to be ready in half an hour. It could be any one of them, it happens to be 912. The fire season and how bad will the season be, and whether the firefighters have the right tools to stop the blazers. On the trail of arsonists. What is it about the place that attracts this. If you drive through the path, its a fire ground. The landscape is an invitation an invitation to disaster. Sara hoy in the heart of californias arson