Countries have maintained that they will formerly recognize Palestinian Statehood only at the end of a Peace Process with israel. But after nearly 7 months of israels devastating war on gaza that has killed more than 35000. 00 palestinians, norway, ireland, and spain say they wont wait any longer. The irish Prime Minister drew parallels with his own countrys declaration of independence from british rule. But the European Union is divided on the issue and larger powers like france, say, its not the right time to recognize the palestinian state. And the u. S. Veto still holds back palace times bid to gain full membership at the United Nations. So what does this increasing recognition of Palestinian Statehood mean . Well put that to a guest in a moment 1st. So this report from image and camera. How this going to be recognized as an independent state from the 28th of may. But at least 3 more European Countries of today. Ardens, norway and spain are a 9 saying that we recognize the space of pa, this thing, each of us when i undertake whatever National Steps are necessary to give effect to the decision that the old, the grand israel has stepped up. Its been bumped into across garza, a will that has killed more than 35000 palestinians and reduced to much of the strip to rumble on my sensor. All the steam risk notion of palestine is in support of motor forces that are on a retreating front and a protracted southern crew conflict. This is an investment in the only solution that can bring lasting pace in the middle east. A 2 state solution video. Adding that the 2 state solution is best for both palestinians and israelis. And this is the only way to ensure peace in the region. And the demo cation line should be from the almost disagreement of 1949. With your recently as the shed capital its the other European Countries joined suit including slovenia and molto. Israel has responded with anger, immediately recruited some buses from new away and island. Israel would not remain silent in the face of those undermining its sovereignty and endangering its security. Todays decision sends a message to the palestinians and the world. Terrorism pays these countries chose to reward from us any run by recognizing a palestinian state. Will palestinian officials have welcome the decision in this one . It is a very important step in determining that i understand people in our people to sensitive substitution. And also as the, as of last most, only a most of the, the fact that it has to be is, it seems that that means busy now and on saturday. Thats fine. Is fine. Todays to patient to prosecute to the International Criminal. Cool is requesting arrest warrants for these ready to administer and defense minister for the war on garza. Hes also seeking boards for the rest of the 12 m. S. Leaders for the october 7th attack on his ro, our reactions among west. The leaders have been split on this with the us and u. K. Speaking act against me for the European Union says the icpc must be respected. Wednesdays decision by the european nations to recognize palestine could create a split among western allies within Major International organizations. Bought gifts policy showing another victory and its long journey to achieve full state code. Imaging came out to 0. The inside story. The so lets bring in our guests in television, youll see berlin. A former is really cabinet minister who initiated the also piece process in 1992 in barcelona. Julian barnes basically directs the middle east and north Africa Program at the European Council on foreign relations. And in the galloway in the u. K. Con ross, a former british diplomat assigned to the United Nations who resigned and founded the non Profit Advisory Group independent diplomat. A warm welcome to all of you. Youll see i want to start with u. V is really government sees this as a deeply hostile im as a for recognizing Palestinian Statehood somehow diminished israel. Does it . Nope. In no way. I mean, hey, do asked me, i will do the is this is dated to i believe that there is no other and there is no better solution for both people. Then to have to state the solution. In my view, it should be under an umbrella alpha configuration of 2 independent and southern states, a but the 2 thirds of motion is the basis for any solution. And between the 2 people as long as you want the solution. If you dont want to have a solution, then no solution is acceptable by you, but to say that it is healthy and use why . I dont see how. Why do you mentioned this idea of, if you dont want the solution, do it . Are you implying of these really government doesnt want the solution . There is no question to the nothing in the us government, not all of them with goals that the reasonable for the fix, which is the only thing or the others a by doing x and the they, they close out against any solution with the police, dns and then they developed a law or any development cod ross. As a former diplomat, you once worked, we set it at the un, what you actually did at the time. And youve explained this on your sub stack was to try and increase palestine status at the United Nations. That was part of your, your diplomatic efforts there. So. So based on that experience, you woke up today and saw this news of recognition of Palestinian Statehood and you thought what . I thought it was a positive step, but i think it diminishes the diplomatic space for israel. It shows very clearly the israel, the actions in gaza. Has reduced its diplomatic credit, but to have made it more isolates and then in the world, all of that is very positive. And i think it moves as towards a conversation about what kind of solution long term that might be for the israel palestine situation. I dont, im the lines in my own mind. But the only thing that will work to move is rel tools that kind of solution is in special pressure and Serious International pressure, much, much smaller than we have seen up until now. To julian, i want to ask you whether this recognition is going to build momentum for more recognition, but allow me a little bit of a preamble some, some facts for our viewers here because its not the 1st time far from it. But the countries have made this kind of move, in fact, 143 of the 193 Member States of the United Nations already recognized palestine, norway, spain, an island added to that group. That will be a 146. 00. Palestine is a member also of Many International organizations, including unesco, the International Criminal court and inter paul. And this month, the Un General Assembly overwhelmingly voted to back, palestine is bid for a full membership, but the us has consistently blocked it at the security council. So at the moment, palestine remains a non member, un observers state, thats it status. So back to that question does, does this recognition of statehood by 3 European Countries at the same time . Does that build momentum for more recognition really reflects the direction of travel as you, you said in the lead on that as being a, a whole series of concepts taken to the Different Levels of recognition. This is 3, a quite important a European Countries coming out now on top of the 90 you Member States and did already recognize as a sign. I think its very important and youve got countries like frost and even the u. K. Putting this on the table now, i think there are others like belgium and sylvania in the youre also thinking of this. The decisions are clearly, there is a lot of thinking about the recognition that something needs to change the parties on the ground or stop the situation and kind of blew, blew to the interested in conflict. And under the need to, to try to establish a new equation. I think the real question is, as well, comes along side that show we have more european states moving this direction. We see a lot stronger the global south last to be pushing for this but, but is there a strategy to, to really take for the front of me is ready to under more pressure to recognize the need for, for a political tractor to say solution can be used in a more meaningful way to, to kind of leverage political change of reform and the palestinian system, which is also a necessary component of moving forward. So so, so this is a symbolic step in many respects, but its a fucking photos that from, from the perspective of some to european states. And it could well kind of be the beginning process of more in europe and maybe even more youre more important in europe. Antonia alongside this, your senior views on that. Is this the beginning of something and if so, what is it the beginning of . Im not sure, but this is the beginning of something i. I can tell you something about what happened in 99. We had to, in the negotiations for the Diverse Development and degree meant by making the full 1999 a according to the also the stages. Now Nothing Happened in on that date and the fragment is still on, on these are these side will some of the by the name of the bean and teneo and they, a and the listing. And the the so say if by debt to date a, there is no developmental, nothing will happen. We really recognize what we would declare you and you literally it, but its being in state and they will, you wont be in country. So salt that today they should follow and that the idea and there was a building conference, a, i think february 99. You can reach a deal was to, to declare that if you know is in, in fuel mass, there is no development. That would be a decision of the you to stop, to stop both of those, the eco and it was being in the state. I went to, yes, there are real side. And i talked to the, to me about about that it was a then in the position. And i asked him, or what does it think about . And he said the following, so youll see, you have to know what is important for me when the war simple, the police getting calls back. What im worried about is that it is not enough. Namely, we already had done that. I remember the number 123 countries which a recognize the police being est since november, 1988 when day about his being as kingsdale mind about it 2 state solution. Now, what im worried about is once the war recognizes the police thing and state or the what would be such as 5 do it what the deep end would not go ahead with that . It is not enough for me. What i need is be 3 q. I need the 2 state solution, but the reason why. So im not sure that the types that that is exactly what i wrote that told me then, i mean, it is not the same situation. So to use a m o mo, but it seems today then, and of course we cannot compare it, but live with this one should remember Something Like that. Meaning that even i say i, i think so if it is today. So our father did not want to say it would be an empty shell. Go that im telling you what its doing is between not big enough. And it might be a substitute guild for real stages. Like pushing for piece for re a piece. Pushing the 2 sides towards piece to julian icon. I see you nodding this this at the so sorry, go ahead. Look at the, come on for us just because the nodding was strongest there. Well, well i, i dont. Well, youll see by then said was, was very interesting and very true. I mean, i felt a lot about this and i cant help. But i think the, the diplomatic approach to building up the resolutions demanding an end to the occupation. And indeed, the strategy of pursuing recognition. So tell us time and one way this has been effect. Yeah. For the past and use because those things have not gone to the posting in one single square inch a territory ever. It is the direct process between these readings and the palestinians that have agreed that but also actions by the palestinians such as the intifada on the ground that triggered israel to actually engage in those processes. And i think that should give us some quotes for reflection. Its very, very clear to me, but the only thing that theyve got to drive is towards the 2 state solution to any political solution that guarantees the rights of the palestinians as well as the israelis. At the end of it is pressure on israel. You can have been taught General Assembly recognized pablo started, you can give us time for membership of the us. It will not give so control of the whole westbank control of casa for an International System of administration of jerusalem. Julia to yeah, i was, i mean, im very much in agreement with all of that. And i think my, my son, susan, my question is on the beginning of some kind of european strategy. Oh no. And i think what is being said, but, but by the truly get to the vaccine just to the right point by and then on cell recognition will do right now. And the question is whether there is an underlying strategy that can increase the pressure on the route to take the necessary steps to move toward the track. Whether the europeans are prepared to roll out the slaves and engage a more honestly and will prepare and some of the steps that are needed to, to leverage palestinian political reform. I mean, these are the key dimensions that would create the space or not for a process. I agree with canada, the con, this question or International Pressure, an ice summation is critical, not the way the government, but i think most of these really public in terms of showing that there is no viable alternative if they want to be a exec data and a stakeholder moving forward, but the same with the palestinians that they need to recognize that there was a, by that alternative to offer assistance. But that also in the sense that takes them now taking the steps to change it to, to, to home, their internal make up. Which has always been a huge handicap and often the rails in a sense and the easy part way for way from political tools to so dont. Okay, so ive asked all of you about statehood and youve pretty much all answered by framing it in the wider context of negotiations. Piece of the push and how do you get to a long term solution. So in that case, youll see, let me go back to you and ask you this because you were an initiator in the also piece process 30 years ago and it failed. It didnt work, but it remains the most significant, most comprehensive push for peace in the history of this conflict. What lessons did you learn about that and about its failure that you think could potentially be applied today . What i believe that they, the most important thing is that you can piece if both you can make bases both sides a of ego to make peace. A little too, of all the sold will be it may have, it may a suggest ideas a, i dont think that they have so bulky is going to impose the need to on the bodies pinions not on the diesel and hes a beast. And they, and does he like in my view of the most important thing is that they use rarely government. We change. I mean you, if you have other people and you have to day and the p a is way on the bodies being a side. And we are the difficulties between our mazda and the p. O, a l 5, a, and the, the, or the age of the, of the, the president. I think that the a president , the mazda in the hold of us is ready for use is, is a big support as a result was simple, dont get those dates, illusion. I am not i waiting for his replacement a or no, no, no, not expecting it to happen bill. And he was about to use about the full full i believe. Even full guns, if you remember, the guns is a defense mean is still a invited him to his a home and use way, and the was a big fuss about the, how can you invite a couple mazda to go home. But the beauty, i believe that in europe there on the east, the experienced and did they know legs, which may help us a lot, a, to a get to date it to the, to state the solution. And regretfully, europe was not involved in the last years in the past, it was in the ball who involved in, in the 80, with the various declaration. You can remember in other things a, in the last year if it did not happen. So youre saying the major stumbling block here is these really leadership, the current government that is in place and what would need to happen for things to change in any kind of significant way would be for the as really Political Landscape really to the change but joy im the, the, the, the leaders, whether isnt it . Yeah. Who, his coalition partners, they have 0 incentive to call new elections. So, and weve been at this in this sort of spaces for several months, right . Because they, they could potentially lose seats and lose power if they called new election. So do we also just cross our arms and wait for the clock to run out on this government, which will wont be for several years . In the, in his reading of his writing politics, i think its clear that netanyahu feels support of the government because of the kind of pos, no cost of the, not just in terms of him being both for power potentially having to, to, to face new trial. So hes pretty desperate to, to stay in power, but i think there was also a big question for the moment of how much outside the alternative would radio for a new cost way to peace. But youll see it suggested that the gas isnt a better place of, i think for most people and you want to, um, but nothing yahoo, i get coverage and what would it be for us . Yeah. But uh, from, from the outside of outside of israel, there is a strong sense that actually there is a degree of alignment amongst the main parties and amongst a wider population. The now is not the time to peace with palestinians, and there isnt desire. There isnt a willingness to move towards a 2 state solution that actually by beating the drums of war and the kind of ranking rhetoric you strengthen your political positions. So i think, you know, the new government, i think from the outside of israel, that the, the concern and skepticism there are enhanced. The sense that actually, im not going to ask you about increased International Pressure is around 2 minutes out to convince both the lead and the why the population, the way forward in terms of their own spaces in the world. And there are relations of when the west and the global south will be dependent on, on making the kind of a willingness to moving towards a good to track that others are all the us to try not to sound normalization deals are better than that in their own way, but i think everyone everyone is very much leading into the idea now that you have to pressure these ratings. And you have to show them the cost until the right to lation and non deal making the states. If there is to be a shift to a kind of side bring state hood back into this conversation. There has been just a few days ago, 2 days ago and a very concrete, measurable impact of the recognition of Palestinian Statehood. And in a way it is when the chief prosecutor of the International Criminal court sought arrest warrants against im us leaders. Yes. But also is really leaders, namely the Prime Minister and the defense minister that could not have happened and he could not be seeking those arrest warrants. If palestine had not been recognized as a member state of the court, so this is one direct, clear, impactful way in which state code does move the needle. Thats totally right. You know, without state to, we wouldnt have the i c, c, a cold for prosecution. Um, but this kind of increments list approach of the seeking great to International Recognition membership with us both of these International Bodies that kind of thing. Hes all very well, you know, its good. Its a good strategy to bless you. But i will not give palestine an actual site. What gives you a state . Hes your, the country from which you want to become a state secede from. If you like, the california is not succeeding from it. Im just using a figure of speech not succeeding from isabel asked to accept that you will become a state, is where it holds the key here. This is why there is as judy inside is growing International Consensus that needs to be pressure on israel to make this happen. My question is, will that be such pressure . The europeans have totally failed to put pressure on israel impala decades to be the occupied territories, as they had been required to do for a very long time. And the us, when folks have happened, have taken the side of these ladies, and there is no sign that the u. S. Has prepared to put any meaningful pressure on israel to do the right thing, whether the pardon the ministration or future trump administration. Okay, so theres a, theres really a 10000. 00 foot question in here somewhere and youll see this will go to you. You mentioned earlier that piece happens if both sides wanted israel strategy right now is to occupy part of palestine be occupied, westbank, east jerusalem. And to blockade the other part, gaza this, im not sure that many people in israel today would say apart from the extreme right. Okay. Because their policy is, annexation settled, a land drive out the palestinians. They have said as much, we know what they think apart from the extreme, right. Im not sure theres that many is really is who would say this is working for us and didnt do. Is there a momentum . Is there a Critical Mass of israelis who think we need to try Something Different because occupation and blockading has resulted in this . You know, of course, no question. Im in use eating the numbers. I mean the l a. So they say i go to do co surveys and the thought is on. So these, but a, you see that in it, then you all himself is very unpopular. I, i think that he was never so im functionality and hes a long for me to call a career. Hes faulty. It became much is small now in day in the pose. People do not want to and next that westbank for sure. No god. So a, ive seen that a, a different the government the use right in a, wed be more much more relatives on the full day. A for most of the of these riley said, and i can tell you about the icbc in dallas to see this decision a and i was one of those will want that he is ready to join the icbc in december of 2000 a. But they regretfully did not, they happened, but a, and as you may know, it was, is rileys and just from a broad hole where the biggest bushes fall for the establishment of the icpc. But the i, that is, is the problem is that they did decision, they all said that the prosecute the a to at least threatens things. It least the foot fully. Why and the time, you know, because people even use the not the, the as an admirers of nathan jo. Well, not like a to see their, a bread minister inside the situation. And mainly because it was actually they connected to the accusations against come us even if it was not the quinn and they, they how much the divisions, ill a moral a, a most serious student defect that both sides a see if it was balanced a well, if use a main menus. Rileys will donuts bold, say nathan, you know, its a simple team. So i, i dont see these things changing that idea. What can change the situation, for example, a president quickly binding a has a plan, a which is a strategic allow you to seek is it really is of all for the hostages. It is a lie, a sweet this o d r a b i n a negotiations on the basis of it, but his being in a state about 2 weeks deep. Oh, hes been lifted a day in the times and the Washington Post some months ago. He never actually studied a publicly and i believe that at least for him now to stand up and say, this is an american all fell to both sides. That might have a much bigger impact on they is really a Public Opinion then. Okay. Sanction. So all things like that, im not saying that sounds do not, they havent even book, but i sometimes down having to come to the counter in buck. And i think that thinking about body spins a is, is the wrong way. The right way is to put an option and to see whole supported and to create even is where it says re a debate to day. It is difficult to have at the bank because the officer of, of president that i guess, oh, but i have seen the future will do opinions is not on the agenda. I to all right gentlemen, we have to run. Thats all the time we have it today. But i really value your time. Thank you very much for your perspectives and your analysis today. And youll see bill in julian going, stacy and con ross. Thank you for joining us and thank you to for watching. You can see the program again any time by visiting our website down to 0 dot com for further discussion. Good or facebook page. Thats facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. You can also join the conversation on x, our handle at asia inside stored from me several venue in the entire team here in dont buy from the you wills, the caught a duty and a growth using for p use a code to contribute to improving the lives of thousands of projects except the cost and we strive to ensure it reaches its deserving recipients, visit the cost on red crescent. And remember, its a copier size, wealth, and increases systems. Costs on ridgecrest. A business like this, this wrote to you believe i guess is a line. Its funny on one of your makes modern plates. The business like just is free to you believe i guess is an ice fly on one of your makes modern plates the the oh i marian the why the welcome to the news our life from the coming up. The next 60 minutes. Spain island a noise say they will recognize a palestinian state. Israel recalls it sounds placid as in protest. Meanwhile, and gaza is radius choice of kills at least 24 people in the past day. Most of them women and children. Over the next few weeks, i will find 4 and 3 folks. The british Prime Minister wishes to knock announced as a general election on the 4th of july. The opposition labor policy is cooling it